The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

MR. LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight, Atlanta's Olympic Park reopens, Tom Bearden reports; what it takes to be an Olympic champion, we have a Jeffrey Kaye report, plus a discussion; "Where They Stand," Bob Dole speaking in Hollywood; and a Newsmaker interview with Egyptian President Mubarak. It all follows our summary of the news this Tuesday. NEWS SUMMARY

MR. LEHRER: An Olympic security guard is a suspect in last Saturday's bombing, according to a special edition of the Atlanta Journal Constitution today. The guard's name is Richard Jewell, a 33 year old former sheriff's deputy. He was called a hero for being the first to alert Atlanta police to an unattended knapsack that contained three pipe bombs. They did detonate, killing one and injuring more than one hundred people attending a rock concert early Saturday morning in the city's Centennial Olympic Park. Reporters asked Jewell if investigators told him he was a suspect.

RICHARD JEWELL, Security Guard: I'm sure everyone that works in the area or that came by the area is being investigated. I'm sure there are some newspaper reporters that are being investigated, so, umm, they're very thorough. They will do whatever it takes to catch who did it, and I will assist them in any way I can.

MR. LEHRER: Jewell was working for a Los Angeles firm hired by AT&T to provide security at its pavilion in Centennial Park. And the park did reopen today, after having been closed since Saturday for a crime search and damage repairs. Thousands of people cheered as the park was rededicated by Olympic officials. New rules are in effect at the park. Packages can be searched at random, and there are warnings against leaving packages unattended. We'll have more on this story right after the News Summary. On TWA Flight 800 today, ten more bodies were recovered by Navy divers off the New York Coast. One hundred and seventy-one of the two hundred and thirty victims have now been retrieved. The FBI refused to say whether traces of explosives have been found on pieces of the plane. We have more in this report from Betty Ann Bowser in East Moriches, Long Island.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: Search teams continued today to recover pieces of wreckage from TWA Flight 800. Investigators are focusing on the recently discovered forward portion of the 747, which broke off from the rest of the plane and hit the water first. If it was an explosion that ripped the cockpit and the first class passenger cabin from the rest of the plane, investigators hope thatthe wreckage recovered today will show evidence of a bomb. Meanwhile, investigators were testing this piece of wreckage which could provide some critical clues. It's a luggage container from the cargo section of the plane that is being looked at for traces of explosives. This afternoon, federal investigators said the Grasp and Grapple are fastening cables onto large pieces of wreckage, and they're hopeful some of those pieces will be raised tomorrow. But more uncertain and still unknown 13 days after the crash of TWA Flight 800 is what caused it.

REPORTER: --you continue not supplying--can you go on--what can you do next?

JAMES KALLSTROM, FBI Director, New York: Well, that's a good question. I mean, if we took the whole plane up here and didn't find anything, then I guess I'd have to refer that, that to the NTSB, but I suspect when we get more of the plane we will know the answer. Do you agree with that, Bob?

ROBERT FRANCIS, Vice Chairman, NTSB: At some point, as I've said before, we're going to, we're going to know why this, this airplane came down in the water, and we're just going to have to keep picking up pieces of wreckage until we determine why that is.

MR. LEHRER: In Paris today, several major nations adopted 25 new measures to combat terrorism. It was done at a meeting of the G-7, the seven big industrial democracies, including the United States, plus Russia. The new steps include tightening airport security and increased sharing of criminal intelligence. Attorney General Janet Reno said the agreement also included new efforts to police the Internet. Back in Washington, congressional leaders held a meeting on terrorism with White House Chief of Staff Leon Panetta. There was disagreement over proposals made by President Clinton yesterday, particularly giving the FBI more wire-tapping power and studying the use of tracing material in powder commonly used to make bombs. Republican Sen. Larry Craig of Idaho said Congress should take its time on new legislation.

SEN. LARRY CRAIG, [R] Idaho: I think our goal here is not to be stampeded. Certainly we recognize the threat that is at hand and the responsibility we have to deal with it and deal with it in a forthright way. We've got the security of the American citizens at hand. We also have legislation that's on the books that we need to see is it being effectively used and implemented, and I think that's part of the role of this group, to make sure that what we have works before we ask for substantially more.

MR. LEHRER: The eight Republicans and eight Democrats will continue their meetings with Panetta tonight. At the White House, President Clinton said he believed anti-terrorism legislation could be passed by the end of the week.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Keep in mind, we're trying to do something very quickly, or we're talking about trying to pass a bill for the August recess, which is upon us, and they want to go home Friday or Saturday, and we're looking for some immediate help, where we need to quickly identify the areas we can agree on, move as quickly as possible, have a vote if there is an area of significant disagreement, accept the result, and then forward to the future. There will be other opportunities to pass laws.

MR. LEHRER: The President spoke at a joint news conference with Egyptian President Mubarak. They also discussed the prospects for peace in the Middle East and ways to combat terrorism. Earlier at Blair House, Mubarak also talked about terrorism in a Newsmaker interview with Charlayne Hunter-Gault.

HOSNI MUBARAK, President, Egypt: It is an international phenomenon. We have to take measures and to react or to react against terrorism anywhere in the world.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So what measures should--

HOSNI MUBARAK: For example, the main problem is a Middle East problem. If the Middle East problem could be solved fairly, this will be the biggest help to avoid terrorism.

MR. LEHRER: We'll have the complete interview later in the program. The Federal. Election Commission filed suit against the Christian Coalition today, charging it illegally supported Republican candidates in elections from 1990 on. The FEC said the support came in conferences, voter drives, and election guides that should have been reported as contributions to the candidates who benefited. A spokesman for the Coalition said the suit will be vigorously contested. In Little Rock today, the jury in the second Whitewater trial reported it was deadlocked. The jurors sent a note to the judge this afternoon after deliberating for three days. The judge sent them back and instructed them to do everything possible to reach a conclusion. The trial is of two bankers accused of illegally aiding then Governor Bill Clinton's 1990 reelection campaign. In the Olympics, the United States won gold medals in track and field and gymnastics last night. Thirty-five year old Carl Lewis won his fourth consecutive Olympic long jump title, with a leap of 27 feet, 10 3/4 inches. It made Lewis only the fourth Olympian in history to win nine gold medals. Michael Johnson set an Olympic record as he won the gold in the 400 meter final, and another Johnson, Allen Johnson, also set an Olympic record, capturing first place in the 110 meter hurdles. In gymnastics, Shannon Miller won the gold medal for her performance on the balance beam. We'll look at what it takes to be an Olympic champion in a few minutes after a report on this big day in Atlanta. Later to come a "Where They Stand" and President Mubarak of Egypt. UPDATE - MOVING ON

MR. LEHRER: First tonight, reopening a park and moving on. Tom Bearden reports from Atlanta.

MR. BEARDEN: People began lining up more than an hour before the scheduled 8 AM reopening of Centennial Olympic Park. It was a docile, almost somber crowd. Many carried flowers. A few sang.

[PEOPLE SINGING]

MR. BEARDEN: And then members of the massive security contingent opened the gates.

SECURITY PERSON: Okay. The park is now open. I'll be letting you in slowly. We're going to keep it organized, and you're going to be randomly searched up here, okay? They already have a line, so we're going to start letting people in slowly now. You walk up there and go into the line. Okay. You guys over here.

MR. BEARDEN: Centennial Park was designed to be the central public gathering place for the Olympic games until a weekend bombing turned it into a crime scene. Atlanta officials wanted it to remain as open as possible but new procedures put in place this morning now mandate all parcels be searched. That was fine with Jerry Pinson and Rod Moak of Huntsville, Alabama.

JERRY PINSON: Oh, it was okay. It was no real big problem. We just walked in and they saw that we didn't have anything with us, so we came right on in.

ROD MOAK: Came right on in without any problem at all.

MR. BEARDEN: Do you think that having the security here and the incidents that happened here a couple of days ago have changed the sense of, of a feeling of being at the Olympics?

ROD MOAK: I don't really think so. As a matter of fact, I think people are almost more determined to make a good thing out of it. I think it's probably focused people's attention towards, you know, trying to forget that sort of thing.

MR. BEARDEN: Maddie Middleton of Knoxville, Tennessee, felt more secure because of the large police presence.

MADDIE MIDDLETON: Oh, it's okay, for my benefit.

MR. BEARDEN: Do you think the security here is tight enough to ensure your safety?

MADDIE MIDDLETON: I think it's tight, yes, very tight.

MR. BEARDEN: How do you know that?

MADDIE MIDDLETON: I feel that they are, you know, because they are going through everything, you know.

MR. BEARDEN: Any fears, any concerns about being here today?

MADDIE MIDDLETON: No. No. I feel like this. The Lord wants you, He's going to get you at home, it doesn't matter, wherever you are.

MR. BEARDEN: Susan Merry and Jane Mott of Jacksonville, Florida, said their presence indicated their refusal to be intimidated by terrorism.

SUSAN MERRY: We shouldn't let it stand in the way of participating and living our lives.

JANE MOTT: I don't plan on living my life in fear, and I'm not going to let some crazy people stop me from doing what I want to do. I believe in the fact that when your number's up, your number's up, and it doesn't matter what you're doing or where you are. When it's your time to go, you're going to go.

MR. BEARDEN: There are some people who are concerned that reaction to terrorism might go too far, that some of the kind of security precautions that are being implemented here might at some point being to infringe on people's civil liberties and the basic freedoms that are guaranteed to people in public places. Any concern about that at all?

SUSAN MERRY: I don't have any concern about that, because you have to realize, you know, what their ultimate goal is and it's all for the best protection for this number of people that they can possibly offer in a gathering like this.

JANE MOTT: And if people take that as an insult to them, then they should stay away. Then they don't have to deal with it.

MR. BEARDEN: As thousands made their way into the park, people began to lay bouquets on a hillside near the site of the bombing, a television light and camera tower. Just a few yards away, people gathered for the 10 o'clock formal reopening ceremony which began with trumpeter Winton Marsalis.

[MUSICIAN PLAYING TRUMPET]

MR. BEARDEN: Olympic committee co-chairman and former UN Amb. Andrew Young paid tribute to the two people who died in the blast and to the injured.

ANDREW YOUNG, Olympic Committee Co-Chairman: We're here to proclaim a victory. We're here not to wallow in tragedy but to celebrate a triumph, a triumph of the human spirit. We're here to remember the lives of Alice Hawthorne and Meli Ulsonjol, two wonderful citizens, one from America and one from Turkey. It's unfortunate that our lives are too often defined by the tragedies and suffering that we experience. And yet, it's because those tragedies and those sufferings have often been the incidents which bring us to our senses and remind us who we really are. Yes, we enjoy the frivolity. We love this park. And more than a million people enjoyed this park in the days that it was open. And we didn't have a single incident, a single fight. People didn't even get too drunk. [laughter in crowd] We learned to celebrate the joy of humanity, and we learned that we were brothers and sisters, regardless of our race, regardless of our religion, regardless of our national origin. [cheers and applause] You are the people of the future, the people of the planet that can solve all of the problems of the planet together, and we have no need for hatred and violence. We love you. We thank you. God bless you. [applause]

MR. BEARDEN: As a gospel choir closed the ceremonies, Olympic officials also hoped it would bring some closure to the tragedy many in Atlanta feel has stained their city's reputation. [choir singing] FOCUS - THE MAKING OF A CHAMPION

MR. LEHRER: Now athletic glory. What can the human body be made to do and at what cost? Jeffrey Kaye of KCET-Los Angeles begins with this report.

JEFFREY KAYE: Those who are serious about sports start young. At the Broadway Gymnastics School in Santa Monica, competitors are between seven and fourteen years old.

COACH: [talking to little girl] Yes, very good. Oh, yes.

MR. KAYE: Their coach, Henry Vanetsyan, not only teaches technique. Vanetsyan, who trained the Soviet Union's men's team for 15 years, instills lofty ambition.

HENRY VANETSYAN, Gymnastic Coach: Anybody, if you can do something, you have a dream. Maleah, come over here. Why you want to do gymnastics? Tell us, please. Don't be shy. Tell us about. Why?

MALEAH McGUIRE: [small girl] Because I like it, and I want to go to the Olympics.

HENRY VANETSYAN: You have a dream.

MR. KAYE: You want to go to the Olympics? Tell me. How old are you?

MALEAH McGUIRE: Nine.

MR. KAYE: Nine.

MR. KAYE: At nine, Maleah McGuire trains with her friends three hours a day, five days a week. Most competitive athletes, professional as well as amateur, can identify with the motto of the modern Olympics, swifter, higher, stronger. But what are the limits of human performance, and how far should the body be pushed? Those are questions not only for athletes but increasingly for scientists.

MARILYN PINK, Centinela Hospital Biomechanics Lab: Over the years, we've seen many world records broken, and humans have pushed ourselves further and further to the edge. The thing is we never know where that edge is. We don't know if the world's flat in terms of performance, or if it really is curved, and we can come 360 degrees with it.

MR. KAYE: Marilyn Pink is director of the Biomechanics Laboratory of Centinela Hospital in Inglewood, California. The lab is just one example of the intersection of sports, medicine, and science. One project has been to learn about the physiology of baseball pitching.

MARILYN PINK: I'm going to have you take a deep breath.

MR. KAYE: In a demonstration, electrodes are applied to the shoulder muscles of college pitcher Bob Walla. High speed film was loaded for motion analysis.

SPOKESPERSON: Bob, you ready?

BOB WALLA: Ready.

MR. KAYE: As Walla pitched, a technician noted the ball's speed. A computer recorded electrical activity in each of four shoulder muscles, and the camera whirled. By assimilating all the information, researchers can better understand the dynamics of movement.

MARILYN PINK: What we'd like to understand is which tissues are really involved with the sports, which muscles fire when, how intensely do they fire? Are they firing with a lengthening contraction? Are they firing with a shortening contraction? What's the range of the motion at the joint at that instant? How would I most effectively and efficiently exercise that muscle?

DR. LEWIS YOCUM, Sports Physician: The research in the lab gives me a better understanding of a lot of the pathology that I see in the surgery.

MR. KAYE: Dr. Lewis Yocum, the associate medical director of the lab, is also the physician for the California Angels Baseball Team. Yocum says the lab's research helps him understand what surgical procedures are best for injured players. In addition, by studying which muscles are used when, doctors an trainers can prescribe exercises to avoid stress and prevent injury.

DR. LEWIS YOCUM: As opposed to the old concepts of more weight is better, we're realizing a lot of times less weight, if done properly, can get you a quality product, can get you much better results. We don't have to go for no pain, no gain. There's other ways to educate muscles and to treat them properly.

MR. KAYE: Such as--

DR. LEWIS YOCUM: Specific exercises. Many times we have a professional ball player who is working with two, three, or four pounds maximum working in a specific playing. That's all they need. They take any more weight than that they may actually be doing damage, overloading muscle groups.

MARK EICHORN, Pitcher, California Angels: This is a strong one for me. I can do a lot of these.

MR. KAYE: Mark Eichorn, a pitcher with the California Angels, works with light weights on his shoulder muscles. Eichorn had shoulder surgery early last year.

MR. KAYE: Can you feel the different muscle groups that you're affecting?

MARK EICHORN: Yeah. Yes, I can. Yes, I can. And, you know, each exercise, I feel, you know, working different muscles.

MR. KAYE: Eichorn is on the Angels' disabled list. Before he can return to competition, he must demonstrate his proficiency to the team physician, the pitching coach, and to Angels trainer Ned Bergert. Bergert says the pressure for hurt athletes to return to competition comes not from the front office but from the players, themselves.

NED BERGERT, Angels Trainer: If anything, we have to check ring em to try to hold em back to go out before they are 100 percent and they won't re-injure themselves because when we've put in, you know, hours and weeks of time and effort to get em back, we want to see them on the field and perform continuously once they get on the field and not come back and visit us in a couple of days after, you know, things happen.

MR. KAYE: Angels relief pitcher Troy Percival had elbow surgery in June 1993. He says he's now a better pitcher than before the operation thanks to better exercises, exercises developed as a result of the research. Percival pressed to come back as soon as possible after his operation.

TROY PERCIVAL, Pitcher, California Angels: And in this case they told me it was going to be a year to a year and a half. I tried to push it. I was throwing at eight months but I wasn't a hundred percent till a year, year and a half. I pushed myself because I didn't like sitting and watching, so I pushed myself as fast as I could.

MR. KAYE: The pressure on Olympic athletes is more concentrated, says Marilyn Pink. She was responsible for physical therapy at the Olympic Village during the 1984 Los Angeles games.

MARILYN PINK: Think of yourself. Now if you were going in and you had one day to prove yourself after training for twenty years and you caught a cold, but you only have--this is your one moment of glory, so you at all costs, you will take risks, you will perform with that cold or an injured elbow or an injured wrist and still do the best that you can.

MR. KAYE: For serious competitors, particularly in gymnastics, the risk of injury is constant at any age.

MR. KAYE: Do you worry about an injury or pain, something hurting? Has that happened to any of you?

GIRLS IN UNISON: Yeah.

MR. KAYE: All of you.

LITTLE GIRLS LAUGHING: Yeah.

MR. KAYE: Wow. What happens when you hurt, when something hurts?

LITTLE GIRL: You go easy.

LITTLE GIRL: You rest.

YOUNG GIRL: It depends on how bad the injury is. Like if it's a really bad sprain, then you wouldn't come in--I mean, you might come in and just do bars or something.

LITTLE GIRLS: Struts.

YOUNG GIRL: Or struts.

MR. KAYE: But they would continue, despite the pain. David St. Pierre, a member of the U.S. Gymnastics Team, has competed in pain. St. Pierre just missed a spot on this year's Olympics team.

DAVID ST. PIERRE, Gymnast: To be at that level, to be that good, you have to sacrifice. You have to train, you know, five hours, six hours a day. You have to devote your life to it, to a certain degree, and--

MR. KAYE: It becomes your life.

DAVID ST. PIERRE: It does. It becomes your life, and I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily, you know, because, like I said, to be No. 1 in the country or to be No. 1 in the world, that's what it takes. It takes working through injuries. It takes competing when you're in pain. It takes, you know, hard work. It takes sweat and guts and blood sometimes, but that's what it takes.

MR. KAYE: For world class athletes, physical sacrifice is a given. That's a value deeply ingrained from childhood.

MR. LEHRER: Now to our discussion. Jeff Barlow competed as a college gymnast and now runs a gymnastics training center in Annapolis, Maryland. Dr. Ian Tofler is director of child psychiatry at Children's Hospital in New Orleans, co-author of an article in the "New England Journal of Medicine" on women's gymnastics, and Pat Connolly, who's been a regular Olympics watcher here for the NewsHour competed in three Olympics and is now a track and field coach. First, Dr. Tofler, how serious on women's gymnastics specifically, which is what you wrote about, how serious are the physical and psychological problems associated with this?

DR. IAN TOFLER, Child Psychologist: There are many serious physical and psychological problems. From a physical standpoint, they may be based on stress factors, which can be a result of micro trauma, growth, growth plate fractures, uh, wrist injuries, spinal injuries related to developmental problems or normal development of the spine and scoliosis reflex sympathetic dystrophy and several others.

MR. LEHRER: And are those unnatural things that are brought on by overdoing it, or is that just a natural thing of being a gymnast?

DR. TOFLER: They're all directly related to the amount of practice time, the element of difficulty in tricks and as well as other factors.

MR. LEHRER: And then there's another element, the psychological part of this. What are those serious problems?

DR. TOFLER: Well, the major psychological sequela of gymnastics in particular, and other sports that rely on image to a large extent is eating disorders which in the college level population in a study by the University of Washington, have shown up to 62 percent with eating disorders, and they're only training at 50 percent the intensity of the elite athletes. At the gymnastic level, one can assume that the level of eating disorders is almost universal.

MR. LEHRER: Excuse me just a moment. Connect that. Connect eating disorders with being a gymnast.

DR. TOFLER: Eating disorders are important and they're produced in some ways by the constant level of comments about how a child looks, umm, their size. If they're entering puberty, that's a negative because they're gaining weight, and all these explicit and implicit messages that a child receives from judges, parents, coaches, media representatives, will all, umm, encourage the development of eating disorders.

MR. LEHRER: All right. Now I interrupted you. You had one other thing you wanted to say about the psychological part.

DR. TOFLER: Well, there are several others--

MR. LEHRER: Okay.

DR. TOFLER: -- including depression, developmental, social problems, image identity problems, as well as the adjustment issues, burnout problems as well.

MR. LEHRER: In other words, this causes people to be sick, is that right, is that what you're saying, one way or another?

DR. TOFLER: Well, the major eating disorder, anorexia nervosa, has a 10 percent mortality rate, and one--at least one woman of-- had been an adolescent competing at this level, has died in the five years related to an eating disorder.

MR. LEHRER: Mr. Barlow, does that gel with your exposure to gymnastics through the years?

JEFF BARLOW, Gymnastic Coach: I think these kids are going to be conscious of the way they look and the way they're treated amongst their peers, regardless if they're in gymnastics or field hockey or track and field, or non-athletic.

MR. LEHRER: You don't think there's any connection between their wait and all of these--some of these problems, and the fact that they're--

MR. BARLOW: There is.

MR. LEHRER: --competing at the highest level in gymnastics.

MR. BARLOW: There's a small--there's a connection, but I don't think you can single gymnastics out and say that these kids are treated and look this way because of gymnastics.

MR. LEHRER: Pat Connolly, what do you think?

PAT CONNOLLY, Track Coach: Well, first of all, you have a subjective sport where they're judged subjectively by people, as opposed to track and field, which is an objective field, where they're judged by a stop watch and a measuring tape.

MR. LEHRER: Explain that.

MS. CONNOLLY: Well, when--in track and field, you have--

MR. LEHRER: The person who runs across the line first wins. Okay.

MS. CONNOLLY: First wins. They win. So no judge can say you didn't look pretty doing it. If you're Michael Johnson and your legs are short and you don't look right, it doesn't matter. If you hit the tape first, you win. So--

MR. LEHRER: But in gymnastics--

MS. CONNOLLY: In gymnastics, it's not so. You have to be pleasing to others. So it makes it more vulnerable to this kind of, this kind of treatment of athletes when they're younger, because it's how someone perceives you and so you want to please. You want to look right. You want to be right and with that desire, especially in a very young athlete, you succumb to some of the pressures that are on. That's why--

MR. BARLOW: They don't necessarily think that when they're training.

MS. CONNOLLY: Right.

MR. BARLOW: You know, they go out and they train because they know that to perform a skill, they have to be a certain weight, a certain strength level.

MR. LEHRER: Well, let me, just looking at it from a lay point of view, people who have been--and I'm one of them--who have been watching the Olympics on television and you watch the women gymnastics and the close-ups of their faces of these young women, mostly the Americans, but it's true of the others as well, they have a very, very severe, cold look in their eyes. And when something happens, there's no--none of that camaraderie that you see from the swimming team, the people who are involved in track and field. There's a difference to the naked, lay eye. Is that not a real difference?

MR. BARLOW: Are you talking specifically like team camaraderie?

MR. LEHRER: Well--

MR. BARLOW: Inter-reaction.

MR. LEHRER: Inter-relationships, cold desire to win.

MR. BARLOW: Well, a big point of that is the girls on our current Olympic team do not train together. They train in various gyms around this country and very rarely get together as a team like you would see, like the European gymnasts. There's a lot of team camaraderie. There's a lot of social inter-reaction. We don't have that.

MR. LEHRER: Dr. Tofler, do you believe that women's gymnastics is different than all these other spots?

DR. TOFLER: I think it has a lot of similarities, as one of your guests just pointed out, but I think that the major physical and psychological sequela are much more obvious in gymnastics and a great concern.

MR. LEHRER: Because why? Because they have to start earlier? Is that one of the reasons that--if you're going to make it-- these kids--correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Barlow--all these kids who are competing in the Olympics in gymnastics, they had to start when they're four and five years old, right, to be at this level?

MR. BARLOW: Yes. They started young.

MR. LEHRER: Now is that a negative, do you believe, Dr. Tofler?

DR. TOFLER: Yes, I do, and we've discussed this in terms of an achievement by proxy cascade of potential abuse, and that reaches from the level of the parents, and a parent who says something to the effect of, uh, if you're injured with stress fractures or a wrist injury at age 14, umm, I will think that you should not compete, however, it's your decision, at age 13, 14, 15, it is not that child's decision. And a parent is, is abrogating their responsibility if they allow that sort of process to continue. Similarly, a charismatic coach who says it's your decision to vault, while verbally encouraging the child, and in a situation where a child hurts their head on a piece of apparatus and knowing that people have been paralyzed in competition, the lack of presence of medical personnel on the floor is inexcusable.

MR. LEHRER: Pat Connolly, abuse, the doctor--is the word the doctor used.

MS. CONNOLLY: Yes, but I don't find that it's any different--it's getting highlighted now--than football. Our boys, our little boys go out every spring and train for the fall glory, and they have far more injuries, far more neck injuries, back problems, Little League baseball. It's the same all over. I think, I think whenever you have an athlete who wants to--who wants to excel, who's doing it, you can't force someone to throw harder, run faster, be a good athlete. They have to want it from within themselves and they have to have reckless abandon. And if they're going to have reckless abandon, they're going to be hurt.

MR. LEHRER: But what is--based on your experience, both as an athlete and as a coach, what is the--is there a percentage between talent and, and desire and will? In other words, can't you overcome some lack of talent if you really want to win and you give it everything?

MS. CONNOLLY: If you have heart, the athletes with the most heart are your winners.

MR. LEHRER: What does that mean, heart?

MS. CONNOLLY: That's the desire to do your very best, get the most--maximum out of yourself, no matter what, whether it's a one- foot landing, as we saw Kerri Shrug do--is it Strug--

MR. LEHRER: Strug.

MS. CONNOLLY: Yeah. Kerri--do, and or whether it's running with a pulled muscle, or we watched Mike Powell try to long jump. You have--it doesn't matter on that day when it's the Olympic games-- I'm not talking about national championships, I'm not talking about anything but the Olympic games that comes once every four years-- when you have an athlete that's going to compete, there's no coach, there's no parent, there is no team of Clydesdales that are going to pull that kid out of that competition no matter how injured they are. And that's what you've worked for in the first place, that reckless abandon. That's what you work for.

MR. BARLOW: I think way before these kids get to this elite level, they made a decision themselves whether they were going to stick it out and go to that highest extreme level of the Olympics. A coach didn't make that decision for them. I can't make my gymnasts compete on a national level if they don't want to.

MR. LEHRER: Dr. Tofler, you disagree with that, right?

DR. TOFLER: I disagree because it's not that child's decision. When a 12 year old pilot wants to fly across the country and the mother says something to the effect of he won't take no for an answer, that, that is that mother's decision, and similarly, a 14 year old with a stress fracture competing, uh, it's the parent and the coach's decision, and even at a higher level, I think that the International Olympic Committee and ourselves, the general public, have some responsibility. 57 percent of the population, according to an Associated Press poll were against increasing the minimum age at the Olympics, and I think that says something about us as a society.

MR. LEHRER: Mr. Barlow, what about this additional point that was made on the taped piece, and it's been made many times in the coverage of the Olympics, that you have to believe or you have to devote your own life to, to athletics, or whatever it is you're going to do in athletics, if you're going to make it to the Olympics? It isn't something you do on the side; it's your whole life.

MR. BARLOW: In gymnastics, in most of the major sports, yes, the competition is extremely difficult. If these kids have that for a goal, then they will find a way to get there.

MR. LEHRER: What does that do to somebody's mind when they finally get into the competition in terms of oh, my goodness, my life is over when I'm 14 or I'm 16, if I lose?

MR. BARLOW: Well, something that Ian did not mention in his article at all was all the positive aspects of this high level of training and what these kids gain out of it after they're done.

MR. LEHRER: Like what?

MR. BARLOW: Self-confidence, self-esteem. The scheduling, the disciplining that's in their life that they're going to carry all the way through their life.

MR. LEHRER: So there's no crushing fall after this, Pat Connolly, if some kid has gone all the way? We've seen them. We've been watching them.

MS. CONNOLLY: Life is about goal setting, and when these kids learn about goal setting, they have little goals and then they have bigger goals. And when they've reached this point and they come home from the games without the gold medal, they find other goals. And they've learned how to do that.

MR. LEHRER: Life is not over for them at the age of 16?

MS. CONNOLLY: Life is not over at all.

MR. LEHRER: Go ahead.

MS. CONNOLLY: I was 16 in my first Olympic games, and I fell at the 700 meter mark of an 800 meter race, and I--my life was surely not over. I didn't feel real good at that moment, but I had a lot of other things to look forward to.

MR. LEHRER: Did you have people encouraging you?

MS. CONNOLLY: Of course.

MR. LEHRER: Yeah.

MS. CONNOLLY: Of course.

MR. LEHRER: They didn't say, oh, hey, Connolly--

MS. CONNOLLY: No. There's much more to be gained from this kind of competition. Even the athletes that don't make the Olympic team, they gain tremendous understanding about themselves, especially in individual sports like gymnastic and track and field. They're not team sports. You might not see the camaraderie that you would see on a team sport, because these are individual sports and they're training and focusing on themselves. But you learn about yourself and how to push yourself in all kinds of situations. Whether it's having a baby, you could have--you can get through that labor a lot easier, if you know how to push.

MR. LEHRER: So there are some positive aspects, Dr. Tofler? DR. TOFLER: I agree. The point that your guest has made is about the resilience and there's a large spectrum of resilience and a lot of these athletes are extremely resilient people but if they have not had sufficient developmental and social experiences, um, they are at great risk for depression and adjustment difficulties and burnout problems following their retirement at age 19, 20.

MR. LEHRER: All right.

MR. BARLOW: They still have some mainstream lives.

MR. LEHRER: Okay.

MS. CONNOLLY: If--

MR. LEHRER: We have to go.

MS. CONNOLLY: Okay. It's a responsibility of the coaches.

MR. LEHRER: All right. We have to go. Thank you all three very much. SERIES - WHERE THEY STAND

MR. LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, "Where They Stand," and the President of Egypt. Our "Where They Stand" speech tonight is run by Bob Dole, speaking this morning at the 20th Century Fox Studios in Los Angeles.

SEN. BOB DOLE, Republican Presidential Candidate: A lot of Americans when they go to the movies like to bring their kids along, without feeling embarrassed, or nervous about those powerful images up there on the screen, and some social critics tell parents not to worry, don't be too protective what their kids might see and hear. They say this is life in the real world, kids need to see it. But if it's all the same to those social critics, the parents of America will decide for themselves what's best for their children. And childhood innocence is worth protecting. Parenthood these days is tough enough without our kids being exposed to a constant stream of foul language offered as "reality," rudeness palmed off as self- expression, license hailed as liberation, and brutality disguised as strength. Now, I'm a realist. I know that where the standard of taste and decency is concerned there's still some in this industry who seem to operate by the reverse of the famous line in the "Field of Dreams," believing that if you tear it down, they will come. And I suppose that works sometimes. But more often than not, far more often than not, it doesn't work, and it doesn't take a marketing genius to see why. Around this country today are hard working mothers and fathers whose choices seem to be narrowing with each year. And many are working in two jobs, not always by choice. My mother and father worked in two jobs. We lived, six of us, in a basement apartment. We had a lot of discipline and honesty and integrity but not much else in our family. And families today haven't changed that much in many cases. They pay more than a third of their income in taxes, about 38 percent, leaving less money for leisure and less time for their families, for their kids, but art and entertainment is one area where the parents still have the power of choice. And it's clear what they're saying. Give us films and music and television. Help us raise our families, instead of hurting us. Give us art worthy of our lives, worthy of your own talents, and worthy of a country of which we all owe so much. And I want to be clear as possible about what I am not saying, what I am not saying. I'm not saying that all the films you produce should be what they call "feel good" movies, or should we make the mistake of assuming that "feel good" always means excellence. None of us wants to live in a Musac culture without variety or tension or depth. And obviously, like other great works of art, many great movies have explored the dark side of human nature. And I'm thinking of movies like "Schindler's List." What is distinctive about these works of art is that there is a depth to them. They enlarge our understanding of humanity, of goodness, of evil, and the suffering, and courage. And unlike so much else that is passed off as reality, they are not gratuitous, not cheap, not debasing, and certainly not mindless. In the real world--and I hope I've been there--most people have learned that character is what usually makes a difference between rising and falling. And when someone falls, there is no fade out and no roll of credits. In our streets and homes, some of the qualities glorified on the screen don't work out so well. You can see it in the violence of teenagers emulating Hollywood's violent heroes. But those kids don't get an Oscar, or they don't get a big paycheck for their performance. Often, they get a prison sentence or a spot in a cemetery somewhere in America. And you can see it in the lives of kids who picked up from television or the CD player the idea that life is all about "making your own rules." And that attitude doesn't land them on talk shows or magazine covers or invitation lists to state dinners. Usually, it lands them in trouble. And the values I have spoken about in this campaign and which I will continue to speak about in confident and unapologetic ways are certainly not intolerant values. They're what make us kind and civil toward one another. And they're what make tolerance possible in a country of many faiths and unity possible in a country with one future. So far from being divisive, those principles are what keep this country together. Every last one of us who lays claim to the public trust has to face some--the same question. Does our fortune come from the wreckage of our culture or from its defense? Are we just looking out for No. 1, or are we looking out for America too? Enjoy the best a free society can offer, living in the greatest country on the face of the Earth. What are we giving back? What are we giving back? And what are many young people in this audience going to have? So those of us who have cast our lot with a building of civilization to the things that are honorable, worthy of praise, and worthy of America, I salute you. And, again, I would thank you very much for coming.

MR. LEHRER: Bob Dole speaking this morning in Los Angeles. We'll have a speech by President Clinton later in the week. NEWSMAKER

MR. LEHRER: Finally tonight, a Newsmaker interview with Hosni Mubarak the president of Egypt. Charlayne Hunter-Gault conducted it this morning at Blair House in Washington.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Mr. President, thank you for joining us. You met recently in Cairo with the new prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu. Tell us what your impressions are of him now.

HOSNI MUBARAK, President, Egypt: For me to the first time see Mr. Netanyahu, I heard a lot about him, I heard his speeches here, his press conferences, but I didn't make any comment before seeing him, so as to exchange views with him, speak with the man, understand what's in mind. Really, it was very good meeting. He is key in the peace process, as I understood from him. He has his own style for fulfilling his commitment concerning the agreement being signed between the Palestinians and the Israelis, and he promised that he is going to go ahead but we are giving him some time to arrange his situation because he was about three weeks or two weeks in office, but I think he will continue and he will work for peace.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: When you say own style, does that mean own interpretation of the understandings of the principles, or you mean own style?

HOSNI MUBARAK: I think his own style, the way to implement the agreement, but the agreement is an agreement.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So there's no question--

HOSNI MUBARAK: The words are not going to be changed, so we are waiting until he puts forward a plan for how to fulfill the agreement and we agreed to contact with each other every now and then, and if there is anything to me which needs consultation, both agreed to meet at any time, to discuss any matter which needs consultation because we are intending to support peace. And we supported peace from the beginning. And Egypt is a country which started the peace process in this area. Without what Egypt did since 1977. I don't think that we could have reached what is going on now.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So is it your impression that this is a man that you and all the other Arab leaders can work with?

HOSNI MUBARAK: I think we can work with him very well, and we have the experience with the Likud Party beforehand. We signed the peace agreement between Egypt and Israel with Menachem Begin. He was a very strong man. But we concluded a very good agreement which is still working till now, and it will be a lasting agreement.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What do you see right now as the biggest obstacle to concluding a comprehensive peace?

HOSNI MUBARAK: Look, still there are problems of the settlements, problems of the withdrawal from, one example, Hebron, which is considered for the Palestinians is an important point, which will give them confidence in the agreement to continue, although Mr. Netanyahu promised me that he is going to do that but in another style, because he has some problem with the settlers there. There what is in his mind, but I told him my advice. I have no problem, we have no problem between Egypt and Israel, except something very important for both of us, stability and terrorists. I told him look, Syria will not go through any peace process or sign peace agreement unless it takes back all its occupied territory.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: And what did he do?

HOSNI MUBARAK: And I told him, I don't want any answer from you, I don't want to create problems for you. This you could discuss with your cabinet and whenever you are convenient, you have to do it. With Former Prime Minister Rabin, he said, Israel is not eager to keep one centimeter of the occupied and of the Israelis, and these statements came out several times, but they wanted to know what are the--they are going to gain from Syria in return. Anyway, it's a negotiating issue.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But psychologically for Israelis, it is--

HOSNI MUBARAK: And psychologically for, for Syrians as well.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: I mean, one of the reasons why it is said that Prime Minister Netanyahu is now their leader is because Israelis were concerned about the escalating insecurity. Is there anything that you could put on the table or the other Arabs that would in any way psychologically at least reassure the Israelis that they have nothing to lose?

HOSNI MUBARAK: In 1967, Golan was very important in any war which may take place. Nowadays with the modern warfare, it's of no importance at all. You could overcome Golan. You don't need to put anything in Golan--neither the Israelis nor the Syrians. So it's doesn't work, all this big fuss.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: How soon, Mr. President, do you think that negotiations, peace negotiations have to be resumed? Is time a factor now?

HOSNI MUBARAK: I think the sooner the better because if they are going to stay for quite a long time, that means all the powers of the forces who are against peace will find the fertile land to start working in terrorism and complicate the whole thing. It is very dangerous. We have to start as soon as possible.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So you think that if the negotiations will resume, this would be--this would be a wedge against the terrorists who are determined to end the--

HOSNI MUBARAK: It will help. Believe me, terrorist actions will never continue and will never stop unless we reach a comprehensive settlement.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But the--it's interesting--and this was the argument that Prime Minister Netanyahu made when he was a candidate--that there were more people killed since the peace process started than, than before.

HOSNI MUBARAK: Even now there is no process going on. Many people are going to be killed and it will continue, and if it is not going to continue internally, inside Israel, it may happen anywhere else. All of us have business, have embassies, have planes, have everything all over the world. So it's very dangerous, so I think resuming negotiations, the sooner the better, and we should expect on the course of the negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians and Syrians, we should expect, as I told Rabin and Peres before, terroristic action may take place just to end of the process, but we should insist on continuing the process, so as whenever peace prevails, all these countries, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, all the countries in the area will cooperate in fighting terrorists.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: And they will?

HOSNI MUBARAK: For sure.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Syria?

HOSNI MUBARAK: For sure. Whenever they sign peace agreement, everybody will be keen on keeping stability in the whole area.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What do you hope to get from President Clinton in your meeting today and you've also met with other U.S. officials?

HOSNI MUBARAK: I'm not asking President Clinton for the impossible, but I could tell you very frankly the American role is the most important role in the peace process. They started this role since 1973, and we need the American role, it's very important, vital. Without it, we couldn't achieve what has been achieved till now.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Mr. President, the United States Government and Egypt have had some differences of opinion over several things, including sanctions against Iraq, sanctions against Libya, and also the candidacy for a second term of Boutros-Ghali, an Egyptian, now Secretary-General of the United Nations. How serious are these issues between your two countries?

HOSNI MUBARAK: This is a problem between Egypt, frankly, and the United States. Whenever there's a problem, we exchange views. We discuss like any other friends. For me, it was shocking to start saying no for Boutros-Ghali six months before the renewal. Anyway, I don't want to tackle this problem of the Secretary-General of the UN.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: You think he should remain?

HOSNI MUBARAK: I don't know. This depends upon the voting in the Security Council.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But he says he wants to stay.

HOSNI MUBARAK: He wants to stay, for sure, he wants to stay.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Finally, Mr. President, you alluded to terrorism before. As you know, terrorism is now hitting the shores of the United States. What are your thoughts now about the United States and how it faces terrorism? Do you have advice for the President on how we should be dealing with it?

HOSNI MUBARAK: It is an international phenomenon. We have to take measures and to react or to act against terrorism anywhere in the world.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So what measures should--

HOSNI MUBARAK: For example, the main problem is a Middle East problem. If the Middle East problem could be solved fairly, this will be the biggest help to avoid terrorism.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Because?

HOSNI MUBARAK: Because the people sometimes feel there's injustice, the unjust feeling of the people--they feel sometimes that the--the Israelis are taking everything, they are taking nothing, and the propaganda here and there, it's a big problem. For example, so many leaders who are dealing with Israel and with the United States, including me, have been targeted by these people. They don't want the peace process to continue. They don't want a relation with the Israelis. That's why they are trying to fight us. But we are insistent on peace to continue, so we have all to work for a comprehensive settlement. This will be the biggest victory against terrorists.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Well, Mr. President, thank you.

HOSNI MUBARAK: You're welcome. RECAP

MR. LEHRER: Again, the major stories of this Tuesday, a private security guard is a suspect in last Saturday's Olympic bombing. That's according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution newspaper. The guard was the first to alert Atlanta police to the knapsack that contained three pipe bombs. The site of that bombing, Centennial Olympic Park, reopened today. Thousands of Olympic fans attended the ceremony and a memorial service for the victims of the bombing. We'll see you tomorrow night. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.