Challenge to Higher Education

The following program is made available by the National Association of educational broadcasters educational radio network. In a demonstration of the inner city conference technique presents a second discussion of the challenge to higher education seen by five distinguished college and university presidents joining in tonight's discussion. Art Knowles president of Northeastern University John W. allegedly president of the University of Massachusetts Gaylord P. HARDING Well President of the University of Pennsylvania Hurst R. Anderson the American University's president and William C.. Friday President of the Consolidated University of North Carolina. On May 3rd the challenge to higher education was discussed by heads of MIT Amherst Rutgers. Pennsylvania State University and the Johns Hopkins University. Tonight's forum will raise new aspects of the critical future facing higher education. Dr. Nora was moderator for this evening's discussion is speaking from the studios of WGBH FM in Boston. Dr. letter really is at station

WMU a dam on the campus of the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. Speaking from his home on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania in Chestnut Hill is Dr. Harding Well heard through the facilities of W H Y Y FM Philadelphia Dr. Anderson is speaking from WMU at them on the campus of the American University of Washington D.C. and from Chapel Hill North Carolina. We will be hearing from Dr. Friday at the university's FM station WUOM say. American colleges and universities are facing a severe test of their capacities and resourcefulness during the next 10 years. The challenges posed in three main areas. Student enrollment costs a plant and facilities and available faculty. By 1970 conservative estimates show college enrollment will have doubled from the nearly 4 million students today to 8 or 9 million young people seeking higher education. The reasons for this rise are apparent. Do you have a large

increase in wartime births 20 years ago and to the fact that higher education is both more desirable and more available than ever before. The solutions are not as obvious. College campuses as presently conceived would have to more than double in capacity just to keep pace rising cost of buildings research facilities new electronic teaching equipment and more extensive libraries are problems which will be compounded for the university administrators. Finally there will be an increased demand for highly qualified instructors and professors. President Stirling of Stanford University has estimated that in a year when 4000 persons with advanced degrees were going into college and university teaching the need in that year was being only one quarter filled. These are the demands of this decade. How can today's colleges and universities accommodate more than twice as many students by 970 meet the rising cost of facilities and attract more and better faculty into the profession.

Are these simply questions of financing or must our whole concept of institutions of higher education be changed. This is the challenge to higher education. Moderator for tonight's program is Dr. Snow president of Northeastern University located on a 42 acre campus in the heart of Boston northeastern is the world's largest cooperative plan University. There are 7000 students in its four basic colleges and another 14000 enrolled in its evening graduate and undergraduate schools and its continuing education programs. Since coming to Northeastern nearly three years ago Dr. Knowles has more than doubled the size of the campus and launched the university on a 40 million dollar expansion program designed to provide facilities for thirty two thousand five hundred students. By 1973 and now to open tonight's discussion here is your moderator Dr. as no president of Northeastern University in Boston.

Good evening to begin the evening's discussion. I thought I would like to ask each of the panelists to describe very briefly his institution and explain what he thinks it does best. This should give greater meaning to the entire discussion. Let's start with my colleague here in Massachusetts Dr. Leslie Dr. Leslie the University of Massachusetts is the State University of Massachusetts. We're located out in the western part of the state in the small town of Amherst. We have 7000 students and they're expanding at the rate of about a thousand students a year. So we're soon going to be a much larger institution. We began as a land grant college and Hants are strong in agriculture. More recently we have emphasized engineering. We have always been strong in basic science is developing rapidly now in the liberal arts area.

Doctor how and why would you tell us briefly about the University of Pennsylvania. Well yes I'm very glad you were one of the the rather large institutions and one of the very old colonial ones and also private ones but primarily one of the urban one was that you're right in the middle of a large urban center Such is the two million people around Philadelphia. We have 17 different schools that comprise the university and the unique thing about the University of Pennsylvania is that all of these schools are geographically located within a few blocks of one another so that the faculties are able to get together and act as a unit and the students are all part of one single academic community. This has its difficulties but it has its great advantages because it gives is a city of the university or a university city

here in the middle of Philadelphia. And we work at the various problems which are presented to us which are of problems of personnel financing and general educational philosophy. With the benefit of the consideration of all of the different faculties that are involved now this is a difficult time for you Liam ossuary institutions because we do not have either the taxing power nor any ability to earn a profit so that we have to depend upon the concern and the the general and broad and deep concern of the citizens for excellence in education. In order that we may carry on the work in which we're engaged carry it on appropriately and competitively with the large universities in the small colleges and bring about a very high quality of education for the youth of the United States. Because it's our feeling

very definitely that. The quality of the education that's provided is something that is absolutely essential to the United States. And yet it is something which universities have particular concern for because the recipients of their education are not always in a position to determine whether indeed this is timely useful appropriate and directed toward the world's problem. So this is the responsibility that university such as Pennsylvania face. Thank you doctor. Well Dr. Edison Won't you tell us about the American University in Washington. I'd be very happy to do that today. The American University is located in the northwest section of Washington on a tract of land that was once in the outskirts of the city and is now a part of the city tract of about 100 acres. We have also have a downtown center located halfway between the White House and the State Department.

American University is it is a young institution that has American universities go we were not chartered by the Congress until 1893. And actually courses were not offered here until nineteen hundred fourteen Mr. Woodrow Wilson came out here and spoke from the steps of the first building to open this institution with a class of fifty eight students brought here primarily for graduate instruction because this university was founded for graduate work in what was then known as history. And I suppose would we we would think of it now as as work in the social sciences it is now composed of a College of Arts and Sciences a school of government a School of International Service a school of business a graduate school in the social sciences a law school a theological seminary and a year from this next fall we intend to open a university grade school of nursing. 10 years ago we had

3900 students in this institution and this last fall our enrollment exceeded Eighty five hundred. The institutions in these urban centers that have grown very rapidly of course have grown with the cities and this is happening here in Washington. We are one of five universities in the District of Columbia one of five universities about about the same size as a matter of fact. We are engaged in a development program which in braces an effort to raise something like 25 million dollars. It's easier for college presidents to throw these figures around. But actually if you make a careful analysis of the future of these private and public institutions which we represent here this evening we all know that it is going to take an expenditure of considerable sums of money to accomplish what has been suggested we must accomplish by 970. I'm not at all sure that we're going to have twice as many students in 1970 as we have this year perhaps we are. This is a conventional gas in the conventional estimate. If we are we're all going to have to grow somewhat.

I suspect that the private institutions and I'm sure that this one will not grow as as as rapidly as the University of Massachusetts or the University of North Carolina. I think the state supported the tax supported student are going to grow more rapidly. But we are planning our 10 year program on the assumption that by 970 we will have between 10 and 12000 students on this campus in Washington and we rather are inclined to feel that we should be careful in this expansion from now on end and not to not go any more rapidly than the situation requires in the sense of dates. We have to answer the call of the need if you will in this great capital city in one way or another. And I can say to you that while I represent one one of the five universities the five presidents of the universities of the District of Columbia are working together very hard at the moment to try and find ways of cooperating more fully to provide in this capital city the kind of Higher Education that this nation demands should demand and expects. We have as you might guess a large number of foreign students in this institution almost 10 percent of our enrollment come from nations around the world we're proud of this fact. It places a responsibility upon our

shoulders that sometimes I think we don't discharge as well as we should. But it is an opportunity and it is a delightful situation in which to work. This is the American University in Washington D.C.. Thank you very much that's very interesting. Dr. Friday I know our listeners will be very interested in hearing about your consolidated University of North Carolina. Good evening dark and old and I bring you and my colleagues Greetings from the southland. The University of North Carolina was the first State University to open its doors to students in the United States in 1795. There are in the course of the years that followed it grew in the tradition of universities and in 1931 by an act of the state legislature the university campus at Chapel Hill and the land grant campus North Carolina State College at Raleigh and the North Carolina College for Women in Greensboro were consolidated and merged into the University of North Carolina. As you know it to be today we have three campuses some 19

thousand students and we project an enrollment increase by 1970 of somewhere in the neighborhood of 25000 students. We have exchanges as among the campuses and the professors from one campus worked in cooperation with members of the staff at the other campuses. We have a traditional Ph.D. degree programs as well as the Master's degree and we like to believe we are a good university engaged in sound teaching and start a research university in North Carolina. I believe also is well known in this region for its service to the state and particularly in the southern region. Like the others who have spoken we are busy working on our plans for the future as in And since 1947 has spent more than 25 million dollars in buildings to expand our plant and we will soon be asking the General Assembly for about that same amount again. Look into the expansion would we anticipate we need by 1970.

Thank you very much. This is the most interesting and I'd like to ask all of you some questions since both the public and private institutions depend upon the support and understanding of large segments of the public for their existence and possible expansion. It might be well to ask if there's an adequate understanding of the problems and the challenges faced by higher education. And if there are some shortcomings in this area and if so who is at fault and what can be done. Dr. hind why would you take a stab at that. Well this is a very large kind of a question indeed because education broadly conceived is really where the intellectual growth of the whole nation. And as one grows the very definition of growth is something which indicates that one does not know the complete product of the process and which one is engaged. But I think that. One of the things we have to be particularly careful to avoid is to plan in too much detail for the distant

future because none of us are wise enough to anticipate exactly what this hoochie will bring and hence as we plan we must be willing to leave to our successors the final determination of exactly the direction in which our play and should go so that at the University of Pennsylvania in particular we realize that the next five years is a good area which we can see through moderately clearly we can see that certain varieties of specialization which are going to be very important in medicine in veterinary medicine in a social work and so on. There are opportunities and indeed very demanding opportunities for people. But as we increase in our technological abilities here in the United States as we begin to understand the requirements put upon us by the international developments the needs for persons both the domestic and international will change from what we now know.

In consequence we do our planning to the best of our ability in a rather loose and. Flexible way so that as we provide for the immediate future we will not high hope in any way jeopardize the people who will follow us who will have to make the plans for the more distant future. And I think this is an important matter because if we indeed were to prejudice hard children and their children by the problems of today they would probably not be so able to meet the problems which will feast them tomorrow. Do you think Dr. hü know that the public has a an understanding of the problems we face. Do you think we're doing enough to educate the general public on the great challenges of with the new phase our institutions of higher learning. Well of course. The whole matter of public communication is a very difficult one. They're wary engaged right now in a communications process with the

public over radio and the press and television and so on do this. But the response of individuals to the kind of message which is given them is something which is conditioned not only by the message we give but by the reaction which if their own background conditions them to do so that I think we're doing the best we can but indeed we are not omniscient. It's hard for us to say what we should ask the public to do other than to be open minded to be concerned with the welfare of their children to be willing to invest their presence substance in the future welfare of the generations which are coming on. Because there's a long lead time in this matter we cannot begin to instruct a generation unless the generation that is preceded them has provided the means which will enable us to do so. In consequence I think that we maybe have been a little less assiduous in securing the breadth of

support from society that we should and individually private institutions like ourselves have relied on certain individuals public institutions have relied upon their legislate doors and that really we should be a little bit more broad in our approach to the United States citizenry as a whole because the future of higher education is certainly going to determine the ultimate quality of the society which they and their children will enjoy. When you are quite right Dr. Anderson may I ask you you spoke of the cooperation of the presidents in Washington. How do you think your efforts there are contributing to this and. Well I think that you have to look at this problem in terms of the location in which an institution finds itself. I think first before I answer your question directly I would like to add this observation to what Dr. heard was said and that is that I do think myself that there is more there is more public discussion of education as now than it was 10 years ago. I think there's more public discussion of

public education of private education of higher education of all brands of higher education was not why whether an awareness or not of the of the problem. Is of course another question and I'm inclined to think that the kind of awareness that we need. On the basis of which we can predicate a real hope for the future hasn't grown quite as rapidly as just the random concern. Now this is a private judgement and I do want to pursue that too too far but in the history of Colombia we have felt the here and the presidents of these universities the reason I mention this is we've been working rather hard here for two years trying to do two things in the first place bring the universities closer together. I think this is a problem of the country I think we've tended to work in isolation too much. I think the fact that we're on this on this network together is a very interesting observation. This is grown up recently and I think that the universities have to learn to work together more closely. This is what we're trying to do with it is to go and I find this or we have found this in Washington it is much

easier for us to talk to the citizens of Washington or the people of Washington as a group of institutions. As a matter of fact we joined recently in the a major effort to do the training for the Peace Corps here in this entire area. And it is so attractive it seem to be so attractive publicly that we drew editorials from the press iconic commending the universities for working together in providing this kind of cooperative action in the interest of one of the one of the major problems that we face here the government faces now. So I think we can make tremendous strides in this matter. If we work more closely together and not quite as much in isolation. Dr. Leslie you concern particularly with the appointing of the legislature and general public of your problems as they relate to serving the general public of Massachusetts. How do you view this whole problem. Well my attitude on this is that any social organization probably feels that it's not understood. The Boy Scouts the YWCA

the local school superintendent complains that his headaches are not fully shared by the community and he's not maybe getting the support that he thinks he ought to have. And I think those of us in public higher education have got to get out and constantly talk about these problems we've got to do more than we sometimes have to use mass media which is radio and press. We've got to bring groups on to our campuses so that they can see what's going on and get part of the thrill and the exhilaration that comes from observing our growth. We've got one of the most wonderful things in the world you know and. This job that we have and I think other people if we bring them here or see what we're doing and what our plans are and what the needs are I would share this exhilaration. You know one thing it seems to me is that the public today is very conscious of higher education. And if you read your wife's magazines if she

takes Ladies Home Journal are there one or two of the other magazines you'll find there's always a story in there about will there be a place in college for your child and then there's this talk about how tuitions is going to go up. And there's talk in all the magazines and other places about the shortage of teachers. We have a good deal of communication going on but one of the dangers is that it may actually be stirring up needless fears. I think we have to watch out that we don't have all the scaremongering and and and fail to get out some of the positive side and some of the planned program to meet the problem. Very good doctor Friday. Do you think we're doing enough to educate the general public on the different kinds of colleges that exist. You have a very large system in North Carolina and a very fine program of higher education there. How do you educate the general public on who should go to two year colleges who should go to the university who should go to graduate school

and what are the best programs for different clean towels of you so to speak. Well Dr. knows you've touched on a very important problem I think for those of us in state institutions I certainly agree with Dr. letter that we must be careful lest we create more fears and we saw problems in some of these areas in North Carolina Presently we have 16 state supported institutions and we are about to embark on a considerable expansion in the community college program which will and I would guess lead to the establishment of a dozen or more of these institutions. It is very important to explain and I think rather carefully what each of these institutions has to offer and what is required to obtain admission. And we are at work on this constantly. We think these questions need interpretation. The year round and many of us go to

alumni meetings press meetings and through our own FM station here and I television station and other ways raise and answer these questions as best we can to give the public as clear an understanding of what we're doing as possible. I should like to raise one other aspect to this problem. Please do I'm a big A lot of Dr. Anderson would comment on this also I am wondering if we have done a good job in interpretating what we mean when we talk about basic research and the need for IT support in universities. It is clear that more and more the government and other agencies and large corporations are turning to universities now for this kind of competence. Have we made a lot of the distinction that needs to be made and thereby emphasized the importance for increased support for this so-called basic area of work in a university. My impression is that we have not. Listen let me say that when Dr. Friday said again Lottie's referring to Dr. Honeywell.

Yes well. I am sure there's a great deal of misunderstanding on the subject of research within our own faculties. Indeed you find a question as to whether this isn't being overemphasized but particularly here at the University of Pennsylvania I've been anxious to make it entirely clear to our alumni and our friends. They really had in order that the permanent body of the University of the faculty shall be competent to inspire the desire to learn on the part of the younger people that come to us. They themselves have to be continuously in the posture of learning something and producing something and communicating something significant to the world as a result of the advantages which they have as members of the university. And it is this learning process of the faculty which makes them competent to deliberate the flame of inspiration to a younger generation that is called

research and this is why we are particularly interested in it. Because if people on the faculty have themselves ceased to learn they are no longer in a position to excite young people who come to them so that we feel that the basic research the desire for knowledge the curiosity about the world the Endeavor and the very. A sincere wish to make better use of our knowledge is something which is absolutely inherent to universities and hence we emphasize this and try to make perfectly sure that there is as little of deadwood in the structure of our academic body as possible. Without this it's entirely possible that the variety of education the university produces is a rather sterile variety one in which people learn by rote what persons previously have already

known. And the rate at which the world is going today is such that this is no time really inadequate for American education. We've got to be really in the fore front of the things that are now in the things that are being learned and if we fail to bring this very important fact to the attention of society they will be satisfied with a second best variety of Education something which it would have been appropriate to past generations but which will not indeed make the best use of the quality of the people. The variety of knowledge and the long line of persons who have contributed to this knowledge and given us the advantages which we now have and which we must develop and improve if you choose generations are to have the same advantages that we have today. I think that's fine Dr. hind while at this point I'd like to interrupt for a moment just to read enough by all of this because on the campuses of their respective schools we are hearing from John let me present the University of Massachusetts law to hand while president of University of Pennsylvania.

First Anderson president of the American University in Washington and William Friday President of the Consolidated University of North Carolina. And this is a Sonos president Northeastern University here in Boston. And I'd like to ask one additional question. What are your views on federal aid to higher education Dr. Anderson would you please answer this for us I know you have a special knowledge in this area. Well of course Dr. living here in Washington one cannot help but come pretty close to the thinking that is going on here in the K in the in our capital and on the Hill. Over a period of several years now I think we have we have seen growing a feeling that the federal government ought to become more of a partner in this business of education I use that word use the word partner a partnership advisedly because there's a very great danger I think in that the flippant

observations that are made on this issue that we fail to realize that this federal relationship to do education in America is not all bad.