Special of the week; Issue 25-71 "The Draft Dodger in Canada"

And E.R. the national educational radio network presents special of the Week this week from C H U M Toronto Ontario through the program extremes of the Canadian Association of Broadcasters. Last. Time. You are there at your town hall. Once they've crossed over they'll probably arrive at the offices of the Toronto anti-fat program young street just above the Eglinton. They walk into the basement of an apartment building in mixed commercial and residential district of the city. Now come into a rather dingy office with four or five chairs around and many posters on the wall.

Some of those posters are starting a preschool if you're interested in any way or just want to come down and talk to us then please call Sherry at a certain number. Can WALLACE Please contact your mother she is extremely worried across the office with the symbol but it's made out of draft cards. Mounted on a black circle when he took a copy out of the Baltimore newspaper of a Parade magazine article on the American exiles in Canada. Free French classes learning French is very important to many of these American exiles because they earn additional points to attain their landed status by having fluency in French. Money problems. My cell for bread 69 Bonneville triumph 500 cc with pipes spotless cash offer. There's one over $300 cash when they come in they'll probably need Bill Spira who heads up this operation. Bill is not that what you'd expect. Bill is 49 years old silver haired retired steel company executive

and he works long hours each day. There's one fellow he had that try to see me within the last 10 or 15 minutes that asked him to come back tomorrow morning because I simply wasn't a position to do it. I bought a counseling job but at that point but I don't know if it was him. Right. I ask him to come back at it tomorrow morning because there's something like still maybe 10 15 people are in the office plus some reporters splashed some mothers that were crying I'm a show that said Cedric. OK but in the form

you put in the full week every day what you said you've been a comedian for the last 25 years. Real American pride of their own. Yes I was in America for about oh 10 15 years. I left Europe became a naturalized American and just couldn't stomach it. Even at that time even the dead time there were roses where the reddest and their cherries were the sweetest and care that was here and Europe was over there which automatically made them the center of the universe you know. And this kind of egocentric. Permeates through the whole of American society and I just didn't like it. You came up the camera there where I found a happy medium to me in a fairly high standard of living and not that arrogance and overbearing have it too.

Unfortunately because we're getting more and more like the States every day and I think a little reinforcement from Americans that will help keep care of the Canadian This is what's needed. This is why I am helping those voices coming out because the alienation from the United States is such that I feel it really is going to play a very very positive role in Canadian life. I think you should be over there. You don't harbor any animosity towards the Canadian government for allowing them into the country. No I don't have to go someplace I mean this is supposed to be a free country where where they can choose their own what they want to do and I believe this is what they believe and they say I will go someplace. Oh I would say they are not quite correct. They do not show much sallied out right here where there are no other kind where those who happen to go went by I

would say today was one of the rougher ones we had anywhere from the 60 people through this office today but I would say the average is about 45 people a day because again of course you know judgment factory you know classification actually really you know actually by the ground it's a mechanical thing is just to set them up in the file drawer. The kids look very scared scared scared scared they're scared basically of the unknown they don't know what their legal position is. The typically American Stay think of course that the FBI has jurisdiction all over the world. I was not sure at all that the FBI could come across the border and take me back or that the country and some of the RCMP or the local police department would pick me up and send me back across the border. I think I've run into a lot of people who have come across that

think the same. They can be deported if happened if you want. Well listen it really you know when people you know listen to you when I'm frisking off I am feeling like any you know everyone else will say different. And the FBI you know can't come up here and military can't tell she's tapping but I would watch television and I can see there are several series on. Things that will happen and are using to say you know it come up here and that they were really off for the gardener and his or her eggs out and that. They were just really getting the good sense of confidence. Good reaction that you get here. Reza share your reaction to your neighbors.

Only trouble was we have we have absolute and all the difficulties with the police. I mean a way should say what we are doing is absolutely legal. We simply giving people a place to go. I think they should be allowed in here. I think many of them are making about a kind of fusion. Not all of them are commuting rabble rousing or any kind of. Got away number one. You know that's part of the game I feel the country has something to sustain you. That's true for you for a second. Matter of fact the reaction from the Canadians as a whole I would say is very very understanding. I mean half the people that

Canadians we have a housing list of maybe four or five hundred comedians helping to put kids when they first get here. It's a double edged sword. She was in the good united way he in his heart he was from Chicago and she was looking for a reason and you get many parents all week. We get a lot of parents. It's amazing how married many parents come here ahead of their kids in order to straighten things out for them. So when their kids come home a leave from the army that they have all the documents prepared. We have those pairings coming in. Then we have parents coming in and that want to immigrate. I have immigrated at least five sets of parents within the last four or five weeks where they the parents are fathering their kids in order to to be with their children and then to live up here and we

get those parents then when the kids for one reason or another don't keep in touch with home and kids are very irresponsible sometimes and simply saying think well I know I'm no great so obviously mother ought to know that I'm OK because if something would be wrong I would let her know. And parents worry and so once in a while we get some parents happy and they're looking for the kids and so on. Reason why they would but you know you go with people she says. Well like you know like I told you Dan you know we've got a chance to make your own choices. All the sudden

he's made a choice that he doesn't agree with this is the way we taught him his own choices if he chooses this then we have to live. I still feel that way. He's worse still. Maybe it will change. There were people like you and I still love my country and I love Canada and I don't think we can do anything for them to help the United States and I really can't say whether what I actually in my house because I'm actually an American consider that as the United States will think that I still would do anything for my country as far as it is from up here you know kind of wish that perhaps the United States will someday proclaim an amnesty and say OK Johnny Come on home.

All is forgiven. You think this is like we would you like to see this happen. Well I would like to see it happen there either. I mean go home and visit my folks. But I wasn't going to go back. Basically I believe there is not anything in the offing as far as amnesty is concerned of course this would be a matter for the Congress of the United States and the president of the United States to consider my own personal opinion as at this time that no such amnesty will be offered. You know could you elaborate on your answer. Well by granting amnesty to the few that have fled you do a disservice to those that did fulfill the obligations of their country and I think our system is based on one of fairness. Do you think there's any difference between the fellow who defects that I won't use the word defect or who flees to Canada to avoid the draft and the fellow who flees to Canada to avoid fighting in Vietnam because he believes that war to be morally wrong. Is there a difference between the two.

Well I think there is to an extent that individual citizens under our system of government don't have the right to act unilaterally as our own State Department orders the president of the United States in other words to say John Jones can decide what is a good war and what is a bad war we'd have utter chaos because we would end up having a few million secretaries of states or a few million presidents following that policy and of course we know that would create utter chaos and you can operate in an orderly fashion and Stricker can occur. There's no judgment factor. There's no classification actually. Really little action by the right it's a radical thing is just to set up in the far right. So far look all right there is one other area. There have been some people who have come into this country as aliens or who had been citizens of the United States who have gone to Canada and formally renounced their citizenship and become landed immigrants in Canada or have applied for citizenship in Canada. There is a provision of the law that also applies under this situation and I don't know how many of these people are aware of it. Once a an individual has renounced American citizenship

and has applied for landed immigrant status and for purposes of avoiding the draft here in the United States he cannot thereafter ever come back legally into the United States without the written permission of the attorney general and the state department of the United States and he will be treated as an alien and should he be caught in the United States without such written permission from the attorney general is then subject to another prosecution that is illegally entering this country. Which is also a felony. So far as I'm concerned the hippie problem caused a lot of this and our doors are open and I think they should be open generally by those who wish to travel. But if it is going to injure the American war effort because this country. Just think so while it can be flipped and let people in and let them hide and have a haven asylum here. I guess a lot of their own country I think it bad totally bad and not in the best interest of either one of us. We have as your goal Albany on call the poses of quote unquote right

Dodgers in Canada. What should our country I'm love you but you just expressed what ought we to do with the people who are already here. Well of course and here is an example where the church is I believe it was the United Church stepped in and said we should welcome these I'm surprised that a church like that they wonder why they don't get people to go to churches when they stick their nose in things that become a matter of state and essential there wouldn't be any churches of it operated the way some of them felt we the government should run things and suggesting we welcome them what are they going to do with welcome when there is nothing Christian about that there's nothing Christian about seeing all the other people go to the gallows and go to their death because somebody wants to create anarchy. And so far as I'm concerned. It's a matter of an agreement between the two countries I would feel the same as it is with criminals because I think they're in the same category almost as criminals because they are neglecting the responsible laws of the country. For this reason

there should be no time lost in these are days we're going through critical times when it takes hard headed good solid business men and business heads and I think there are more rightist than are left us to be considered. If Lampy is they upset the draft dodgers and visitors coming to Canada then they know I'm doing the right thing. You can follow a fairly good rule of thumb look where lamp stands and if you take the opposite stand and you know you stand with progress how do I know that I can come to your office here on young street in Toronto Canada. You must have some sort of an underground network of communication. There's nothing underground about it. We publish a book or a book of this called manual for draft age immigrants to Canada which again sets out what immigration act as gifts.

League or basic papers to have and so on. I would say this is probably a best seller in the United States. We so far have forty five thousand copies printed that went to the states. With all the newspaper publicity with all of the magazines with all the American media that comes up here they're doing a fairly good job of publicising it. The underground press in the United States of course carries a lot of those about something. The boys up here I mean with 60000 Americans appear it's not a deep dark secret that there are places in Canada that will give help. When this all passes we'll think well I don't think it will be of them made. But I think

American foreign policy and I don't think will change and they don't think American foreign policy can change. Without a very very radical change in the internal makeup in the United States and I don't think that's in the cards. The point to me is that even if it does even if it does change it doesn't there are a great number of people who come to Canada because of the present situation in the United States regardless of what happens a great number of them will probably stay here. What effect are they going to have in Canada in Europe. Well first of all I would say that probably 99 out of 100 will stay. Even if things change in the States because the when I say change in the States even if they do away with the draft or even the if the war in Vietnam stops the vast vast vast majority of people that

come through here will stay because it's not just Elian it's not just a question of the draft but the complete elimination of the young people. But what the United States stands for. Now the second part of your question is what contribution will those people ultimately make in Caribbean. Well I would say that the people that we are getting from the states are the best educated group of immigrants of Canada ever receive from anywhere. If there was a purpose if there is a meaningful purpose for the war I would camp out. Very definitely meant. To be I want to be an ally and I see no reason and I see no reason for fighting for it. I sense a great deal of idealism among the youth in the draft dodger movement here in Toronto is it an idealist movement I don't think I don't see why a country itself has a rate

according to the Constitution your free speech press whatever. I don't see the rate of any country to say OK you're 18 now you can be taken into our service and it's all a bunch of numbers and it happens Up next a quick anecdote. There's no judgement fact there's no classification. There's really no action by the graphics on the kind of thing is just too early to set him up in the far right. Some bright guy gets done with the service. I myself can see isn't being right. I'm opposed to this mission out of Baghdad Gers simply means to me that Canada has more or less taking an attitude of approval of those who would have United States get out of Viet Nam and buy by this attitude on the part of the Canadian government one can only conclude that it approves of the kind of criticism that is apparent among mobs and people who gather

together in groups to condemn the United States while denoted States pours out its blood and treasure and thereby preserve large portions of the world from communism. We in Canada welcome those who come here from that country because they lack that's patriotism that is so necessary for all of us to have for the country of our birth or adoption and we are so thrilled for Canada a reputation of being a kind of a hippie paradise. Thanks once for the same one I've never thought of coming to Canada to do the draft or other military system. I don't dwell on a lot of very very straight people. So you're totally against the draft system and the war in Vietnam. There are some Sunday talk shows and. Are

going to give us a bad name. All that a day I mean people it's just like anything else you know. If there is you know one bad apple or so old and there's one group and people see them all they think the whole thing's for sure beat and they just take it for granted this way they are. And now people can understand that maybe that's just a small minority and they're not why I'm think it's like you know I mean there's a good many professional people are well experienced and really great people have been there since they left me. That's going to be one of the problems that they want to answer here and have to deal with is that we're basically I think opposed this in going there. We have I think you know we're here we're spreading it we're States of America. Consider our So bless what the gift of problems that

we really cherish is that. We work as our life. The people. And the nation and you know the mere mention of universities and we're going to get it is you Canadians we're very uptight to all really American influence on our country and rightly so. OK you know I'm not altogether happy that that counted as a as a haven of love for the people who were they in the some sense of responsibility the citizenship of their own country but I never had I think it's an ancient tradition that that a country like ours are to offer asylum to people of his circumstances. I'm certainly grateful to all the people out here who have gone out of their way to help them and. To see that he does survive literally trying to help. That you know people will be

properly rewarded in their own way. If your boys are deserted. When he left the army what happen to you and your family in your home state. We're not alone and without our own family of course we had a great deal of problem and our first thought was. We must get him back before his 30 days are up and all these things so everything will be easier for him. And so hi everybody in the family I try to think he did find out where he was so they could get him back you know. And then of course we realized the 30 days was up. My idea was well now he's in so much trouble that we don't want him to catch him. Of course my husband still felt that at any cost we should find him and he should be returned because this is his way of living and of course cost a lot of problems with family because the mothers are going to sympathize with their Some sons and try to help them I'm sure as much as they can. And it takes a pretty hard hearted mother to say bring him back and put him in jail.

Having a follow up from the FBI or any law agencies at home had to have one visit from the FBI inquiring where he is and what he's doing and informing me of course that should he ever come back to the states that they would pick him up. Maybe they did tell me that as long as he was in Canada that they could not touch him unless of course he did something to involve himself with the Royal Canadian police and which time they would turn him over to the authorities. What was the matter with a polite sympathetic in any way. They replied to they let me know they were not sympathetic It's a radical thing is just to set up in the file drawer. They used terms like brutally frank. They of course led me to believe that if I helped him in any way that you know that it would be not a good thing for me to do

that I'm up in the file. They did not warn me do not do this do not do that. They just made it quite clear to me that there was no way there was any sympathy for him. As far as they are concerned. How about your friends your neighbors your circle of acquaintances at home has any shame of being the mother of the desert or in the United States. Oh yes oh yes of course sound and opinions from circle the circle of friends I have a great number of friends who are intellectually inclined so to speak who are in sympathy with all these boys and they believe that. That this that they are showing the truest kind of patriotism. That they are showing what the United States really should stand for and what the country was founded for by refusing to fight and by insisting on individual freedom and freedom of choice. Of course I had many other friends who. Still feel that I shouldn't tell anybody that he's a dessert or and that I should say well he's off East working somewhere that you know any kind of excuse to cover

up he's still in the army he's out in force so and so you know he will be out soon. These are the kind of things some people would like me to say. They still feel that of course he is a traitor and I cowered and he's not facing his true responsibility. Base truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these no judgment back is no classification no really no action by the. The ends of the political thing is just like a little set up in the file room. This administration and this country had the lowest rate of economic growth which means of any major industrialized society in the world living memory saver Run rabbit run on the railroad right.

I got on the ground. My God. If you don't Americans that there are 60000 refugees you know the estimate. Any RS special of the week. Thanks Us. Toronto Ontario Canada for the recording of this documentary. This is an E.R. of the national educational radio network.