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The Duquesne University Alumni Association presents. Exploring of a child. The child is father to the man. And as we hope for a world of men of good will we must look to the conditions of the child's where to achieve it. So we search for the laws ways and means the sources of the capable spontaneously whole adult. It is not strange that the world of the disturbed child throws light on childhood in general. Although Father Francis Duffy Professor of Sociology at Duquesne University was not at first
looking for this light when he started working with a disturbed child. He found however that it is not that the disturbed or delinquent child is completely removed from society rather that his position is more extreme and so its obviousness offers us a sharper clearer insight into the world of children to share the fruit of his research. Father Duffy and the Duquesne University Alumni Association present a series of recorded interviews with delinquent children followed by a short discussion with Father Duffy's guest in which the child and his problems are explode for insight. And now here is Father Duffy. David is a 15 year old white Protestant boy who is presently in detention. See how you react to David. Is he dangerous or merely disappointed. Should he be locked up or should he be set free to a different kind of freedom than he has ever known. Would you feel uncomfortable with David in your house. Will he respond to kindness and understanding and help. We do not know for he has never had
much along these lines. We only know how he reacts to their opposite. Listen to him and he'll tell you about it himself. What is your name again David. How old are you David. Fifteen. You were here once before I think. Yes sir. And how old were you at that time. Let's see it go back about four years ago I was about ten or eleven and what had happened that time you were here and seen me think it was my first time I mean I was in. See I think my parents I was either here or in a Protestant home but I was they brought me in one night and left me here your reg'lar parents that was my real mother and my stepfather. Who is your real father what's happened to him. You know so I can tell you. And how they have to bring in why did they bring you. I don't know I couldn't tell you.
Maybe they didn't have any place to live or they had a little apartment in shady heights. Well maybe they brought in from being bad as I did. You see when I was when I was born I was told that I was adopted and my real parents took me back. But I have a brother a sister I never seen them cause they were adopted at birth also. They would be younger than you were older. They're both younger. It was my real parents who brought me here. And then after you came here the first time what happened. See I guess I stayed here for a little while and I remember I was out camp Sleepy Hollow and a man came from. Scott is home for boys and asked me if I would like to go there. I agreed not to scout is home and I was there for about four years and then about two years ago I went out to the price and room for children.
Something happened there. I was there for two years and then Mr and Mrs us all left and Mr. and Mrs. Filmer took their place. Mr. Feller was a it was a sergeant of Marines. He's about six foot two or three and weighed about 190. He's about fifty and one time we were up. You know we were having a. Worship Service. And I one of the boys. I can't I can't remember what he said but I started to laugh and I carried my mouth you know to stop me from laughing. And one of the other boys in front of me turned around you know and he told me to shut up. I told him he had his mind on the service. He wouldn't heard what I was doing. I see and he kept up and he got me mad and I didn't say I cussed at him once again you know. And then they just stop right
there and then Miss Burd the junior boys thing went down and told Mr. Felder and the senior boys and he came up and he had all the senior boys clean the whole downstairs and snack bar floor in the parlor and the gym but not the hallway we didn't go to clean the hallway he had the senior boys cleaning laxer rooms and this was kind of punishment for what you did in the chapel. Yeah and I was laughing and some of the other boys were laughing and some of the senior boys were carrying on also. We cleaned it all up. Like I care what Mr. Felder said to me and but I was walking into my work and he said something and I kept walking and he grabbed me and and it just kind of. Something like you time a bomb or something that goes off a certain time. I guess I just explode inside of me I got real mad at him and I felt like I want to knock his head off or something that night and I took off. He took me back the first time the second time now see two weeks
ago Friday I was there and he said if you go out of the house you know no one in the house from 2:00 to 4:00 and I had to go to the bathroom it's not permitted to you know go on the grounds. So I came to the house to go to the bathroom and I'm supposed to and I came back out and I was standing at the door talking to some of the boys and. He seen us and he came over and told us to get inside and get into bed. I went in and sat down in my bed and I got to saying man you can't even come inside the house and go to the bathroom without them hopping all over it. I said the guy came in there and he yelled at me or something like that and I started getting mad inside and I had a flashlight behind me in my own bed. And he went out and the door was closed and I shouted a few passwords. He came running back and he said and he said would you save me would you call me. And he came over and he would have he would have probably shut me up or smacked me wants to bring me back to my senses you know.
And before he got to me I already exploded and I picked up his flashlight and I told him that if he came any closer I'm going to him what hit him when he told me he was going to call the juvenile authorities. And I'd said Go right ahead I told him Go right ahead. And so then he said I think he said no never mind I'll go out and get it some of the guys or some. And he was probably going out to get you he might have been bluffing but if he was a Marine he could've probably took a flashlight off me you know he might have been bluffing and it just kind of made to think of it now but at the time say I don't think I get mad I don't think I just strike to stop a guy wears that. So you don't bother me no more or I take off so I don't strike again. Leon the problem you either fight or you run. And he went out and I thought he was a he was going to get some guys.
So I didn't stay to Holland. I was I was given a flashlight type and I passed the door. I stuck my head in and threw the flashlight and I don't on a couch. And because I knew that wasn't going to do me any good now and so I ran across the fields and into the woods instead of following the highway like I did the last time because I figured that they would look on the roads to get to my knowledge if I run away. I never taken the same route twice. Actually instead of following road three over to Route 19 and then not into Pittsburgh I went through the woods to secondary highway and I hitched but I want more and I rode there on Route 19. A boy picked me up but he didn't go very far on the road. So I got out and later a load of father or minister saw pick me up and let me out of
the Castle Shannon and I got over to Route 8 into the city so I headed for the north side to see if my buddies could put me up for the night and help me just for a little while until I could get it straight where I was going to go and on the way up the hill through through the woods again and I ran a thorn in my leg. I fell to go in. After a while it started bothering me and I carry around for hours after after it started by me. I saw a few of my buddies and I asked them if they had any nice and they said yeah. So I showed it to them and asked them if they could get their story out and they said they couldn't get out. So I turned myself in on account of my leg it was only swelling up and funny looking. I see. But before I turn myself in I walked all the way discussed home and I went to the cottage straight and I went in and saw this man I knew from when I was there. And I asked him not to tell anybody I was
there see. But this is see if he could fix my leg up and he could I be gone again. And he didn't see that. So he told me you have to call Mr. Jones. I was there so I couldn't get so I could get medical care after I got my after I got my medical care for my leg. Doctor told me that if I hadn't got medical care I might have lost my way. And I went from Scudder's home to county hospital and spent about half hour there and there was trying to get this thing out of my leg. They had they cut me open to get out. I went there from there to the police station and from the police station to here. Well during your lifetime have you had many friends. I'd say all my friends are on the north side. You never had a real family life of your own. You know I guess I only spent three years with my real family and that was between one and four. Did you ever wonder why they didn't keep you keep you when they had you. They were kind of
poor and they didn't support me but they did want you they want to keep you with him. I don't know I can answer that. Did they come to see you when you were in these various institutions and foster homes. You must have felt pretty much alone then. Yes or you think maybe that's why you boil up when things don't go your way. That might be it. It's hard not to have anybody. You know I'm sure he's I've had a few chances. I was out. I think the juvenile court put me in with foster parents when I was at the foster home. I got along OK but then again I didn't get along as much as I'd like to. My foster brother you know he smoked a lot and I didn't smoke at all. And he left matches on the floor and one time say when I was when I was at this foster home. I thought it was fun just to
play with matches with you know some like that. Yes every time I go to school I just put a whole lot of paper underneath the car and then light it and then run into somebody's car. Yeah. On an air car and out one time I was in the house and I took a little piece of paper about eight by 11 and I bought it all up and I lit it and I watched it and I stamp it out and threw it in the closet on my side of the bed. And when Mrs. Haim came up she saw it. And she she would blame me for all the matches all over the floor and I didn't screw on my step brother. I see your foster brother I mean and so I came on back into the juvenile court here. And when I when I was at when I went from I went from here to Scott is home for boys and from there I was put in a foster home. How did that work out. You Wilton's
it worked out OK. It worked out OK. Oh except for trouble ahead at school. I got in there. Few fights at school and Mrs. Woods told me that I would get in fights with sons or friends and she would probably lose some of her friends over me. Not long after that my scorn from Scotty's home came out and got me and Mrs. Weldon's was crying when I left and so was I. Mrs Williams told me to write to them and I wrote to them and they didn't. I didn't want to see me leave but it was the only way I could stop the confusion it's going on. So in spite of what she said Mrs. Weldon really was getting rid of you. Did this lead you to believe that none of these people had had you really wanted you. And in fact you didn't keep it really. Some Something like that.
Yeah it's been I guess I must've spent on together about four years of the prizing home and I know I spent four years at Scott his home and spent two years in a foster home in West End. And I spent five months at Mrs. Wilton's place. And I spent 10 months in the child refuge and that brings it up to about 11 and a half years now. Some time later about three four years with my parents. But that was in my younger stage in my life and I guess if I would have had if I would have lived with my parents all the way through with this life. I guess I would have had a lot more enjoyment that I had I didn't have much and I don't see how you could. Young people need understanding and acceptance a need to feel that people want them and they like them. They need people be good to them. I guess that's where it starts. We need people to listen to them you never have to hear these things. Let's go to some there was a woman named Mr. and Mrs. Dick Clark.
I like them a whole lot and at the person home there was a little woman I you know I don't know I guess she was 30 or 40. I liked her a lot. I said How far did you get in school eighth grade. When you're 15 you plan to go to high school or have you just about had it. I don't know I might I might go to high school until I'm 18 or 19 but I doubt if I'll be out of school by then cause if I'm here till next June then I won't have a chance to graduate. Wait I see. So I don't have to do it over. At that rate I was 20 when I finished 12th. You find school pretty hard too. In some ways I'm what you would call an active boy I can't sit down to go on it unless I have certain interests in this say or I want to talk to. And in school I find it very hard to sit down and like. Jim classy just before I go out to the price and home one time it's it's
out in the country and there's only a little country school there and they didn't have very many activities there for football and basketball baseball and swimming and that's that's about it. Before that when I did sixth grade I was in the Scottish I went to regular junior high school and I did track in basketball basketball and swimming and had a different variety of things there. In 8th I went out for soccer for about a month and then I had to tell the coach that I couldn't be there one day because I had to see my caseworker that day. So he said that if I thought I couldn't be there for every day for practice I couldn't come in on. I didn't want to have to tell him why I couldn't be there on Tuesday. So I told him OK. He didn't leave work was coming. And this of course closed another door to you. Now you couldn't even play sports.
So I stayed with baseball in track and tried out for the swimming team. And I'm like good swimmer but I can swim pretty good. Suppose somebody ask you what kind of boy you are. What would you tell him. How do you see yourself. I see myself when I tell him I'm real active the way I like a lot of sports. If I was given a chance I do the best I could do in my school. That clip where when I was either 18 or 19 and I'd go into the service Marines of the army and if I was asked what course I wanted I would take infantry or some physical workouts in the Marines or the army. And then when I come out I probably have that maybe I wouldn't come out maybe I'd make the service my life. Well the service would provide you with a home and food and clothing some place to leave some some money to and shelter and I'd be earning a little bit of money
and to put that in a bank and save it. You feel it might be the ticket for you David. I think I'd like it. You never really were a bad boy do you. Do you think outside of running that I've only had one incident and I was I used to steal. I used to go in the store at lunch time and I was living in Haim's and I used to go home for lunch and I used to get maybe two peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and I guess it was about a mile and a half from their house to the school and I used to run it all the time and make myself hungry on time so I used to stop at the store and take these little 12 cent rolls out one one probably one every day and I did it for about a week. And then I snatched a cardboard pack of six cupcakes and I
cut and the guy took me in his office and he asked me my name and I gave him a different name and a different address and then he asked me for my real name and I gave him my real name an address and he broke the six pack open and he gave me one cupcake and he says don't do this no more. He says I don't want to see you come in the store I'm what he says next time I see you I'll give you to the police. He was pretty considerate. That was the last time I did and it didn't happen no more after that. You never were in any really serious trouble to speak of. You feel that you've you've gotten this fire setting business out of your system for good. It's out of my system. It's gone it's gone out of my system since I left. One Foster I see I've only had two incidents up at that price and I see whenever you go into a new home boys
like you to rely on them. But see in my case I had already been home before and I was used to it. I didn't have to rely on them and they said they sort of held that as a grudge against me. I think they came one time one night on a Sunday and we were watching television. And I used to follow the majority wins and almost all the guys want to watch lawman and 2 or 3 want to watch Tab Hunter and one of the boys went over and switched to Tab Hunter and I started to turn it back to LA man and then that boy grabbed my hand. He told me he got in a fight with Billy Roscoe and Billy. He lives weights and he's strong and he's strong. But even with me and I didn't know if I could lift this here boy at the time I told him I don't care. You can fight. And he stood up
and I stood up in front of him and I swung and like three motions I took out his glasses off with one hand and hit him twice with the other and I knocked him out. I gave him amnesia. Like I said before when I'm mad I don't. I don't think my mind's a blank when I'm mad I'm out for blood. Does this happen often whenever I get mad. I can sit around and have a guy push at me or hit me for a couple weeks sometimes a couple months. But then you find just builds up pressure inside you that you mentioned before and you had this explosion. It builds up and then whenever I do get mad I guess. If I had some way to let it out ahead of time if whenever I did get completely mad at this one time I guess my mind wouldn't be a blank I could probably think but I'm so mad whenever I do fight I want to kill him.
So I hit the guy and knocked him out. He had to go to the hospital and. He had a complete loss of memory. He's in for about two weeks and he came back he was OK and I didn't pass also going right to the guys hate me for my second mishap was over postings that Tenet told me to take the post x out whenever we were faced with playing. I wasn't finished with him and one of the boys walked out with the post x. I set mine down and went out and told him to give me back a post I got I got the post ANY judge back. He swung and he had me in a chest and I swung back and I was told I broke his job as the only two engines I had up there. Well it's about time for us to go back now. OK I think it's not so. And now joining father Duffy to discuss the features of this child's world is his
guest Mr. Kenneth WIPs supervisor of counseling and online services of the Allegheny County domestic relations court in Pittsburgh and lecturer in sociology at the university. Nice to have Mr. Woods back again. Can this boy it seems to me sounds like a pretty cold and dangerous and somewhat hostile resentful boy was that about what you felt. What did you think about him. I'm very much show worried about this boy's father Duffy. I think that he is as we listen to all of his description of his difficulties a dangerous boy. I think that he needs a very careful watching or very careful coaching helping in whatever way you can put it. I do admire his rationalizing of all these things. Each event by itself didn't seem too much and I think that that's where he progressed from institution to foster home to institution.
There's something very peculiar going to it in his life. Everything is wrong. But it's never his fault he's always misunderstood he's a hard luck kid when you say. Yes and if you take just one event of the time you're almost ready with them. Yes that's very it seems to me too that in counseling people when they have a problem instead of doing something about it this boy acts immediately it seems to me he gets mad and he acts it seems to me we have to stop and think and then talk it over with somebody and then think it out again including our plans this time. And then I think you're prepared to act. But he doesn't do that it seems to me. I agree with you on that. He contradicts all the way through even with the point where he said I never take the same route twice although he's taken the same path all the time. Yes. It seems to me to a boy like this almost is I choose to pay the penalty. He is going to make mistakes and to do things which are not acceptable and then he will take what's coming to him. I wonder if you noticed that a little of that seemed to be afraid to have a good
test even when he was doing well in the physical department with the coach when there was a slight reason to quit. He didn't explain what it was he just said OK go ahead. This fire thing too I think that's a bad symptom isn't it in a young child. I'm very worried about that that's almost the climax to a whole series of disturbances with this boy. He told us of three or four fires and even their e rationalize it very nicely really covering up for the other boy in the family and he seems to look at the plan and where it's going to work out to his great advantage. The greatest advantage and there going to be no penalties to pay for him. It seems this boy is illegitimate would you say. It seems that I think probably so and I was struck too. We sometimes forget the tremendous burden we placed on these foster parents. They want them to try again with this boy and after all the other places have failed we give them some pretty difficult problems. And I think we have even seen some pretty tragic things in the newspapers about just such a boy as this
who will give out a signal like riding along in the street and shouting nasty things at people as they go by whom he doesn't even know. Well he certainly explained it to us. When I get mad I don't think he acts you know someone's going to get hurt. Well I want to thank you Mr. Watts for being with us again today and discussing David 15 year old white Protestant boy who seems to be very seriously involved in a great number of emotional psychological almost psychopathic personality problems. And it appears to me that the solution for him is going to be in getting some kind of help and possibly psychotherapy possibly psychiatry will be empty to his before he can get into the framework of living in a normal decent atmosphere and being able to take other people as they are and fit in with other people. You have been listening to exploring the child's world a program in which the child
speaks. Father Francis stuf a professor of sociology education university has conducted the interview with the child and to find the outlines of this world in the discussion with his guest Mr. Kenneth quips. This has been a presentation of the radio service of Duquesne University in cooperation with the Kings alumni association. Technical director Fred McWilliams program director and announcer Harold who may listen again next week for another in the series exploring the child's world. The interview heard on this program was a recreation exploring the child's world is distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters.
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Exploring the child's world II
Episode Number
Producing Organization
Duquesne University
WDUQ (Radio station : Pittsburgh, Pa.)
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University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
This program focuses on the reasons a specific child winds up in the juvenile delinquent system.
Series Description
Interviews with delinquent and disturbed young people who are encouraged to discuss their experiences and express feelings. To protect individuals, each program is a re-creation of an actual interview using different names and places.
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Producing Organization: Duquesne University
Producing Organization: WDUQ (Radio station : Pittsburgh, Pa.)
Speaker: Duffy, Francis
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 63-26-7 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:20
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Chicago: “Exploring the child's world II; 7,” 1963-06-14, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 8, 2023,
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APA: Exploring the child's world II; 7. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from