Search for mental health; Working with the adolescent

The Forest Hospital located in displaying the Illinois presents the search for mental health and exploration of the newest advances in psychiatry during this series physicians and other professional personnel are working in the area of mental health at Forest Hospital. A hundred bed treatment facility will discuss the latest advances in mental health care research and education. Such topics as alcoholism adolescent behavior marital problems problems of the aged suicide emotional problems and others will be presented on the search for mental help. Your host for this series is Mr. Morris Squire administrators of Forest Hospital. This is more a squire at the American Psychiatric Association convention in convention hall in Atlantic City and I special guest for today is Dr. Doug recall of Portland Oregon. He third year residency in psychiatry at the University of Oregon Medical School.

Back to Colin you've got some interesting kinds of material that you're presenting today at the hearing and it's on volunteers and also an adolescent program. What is the term youth adventure I mean it's adventures of the name of a private organization in Oregon which had been incorporated by a group of laypeople nonprofessionals for the express purpose of creating organizing financing and operating programs and activities to deal with juvenile delinquency in Oregon. It's been in action since about 1960 to. What is it. Those are going to have special problems with juvenile delinquency that the rest of us don't have are you dealing him with it better than we are actually dealing with you know other areas. We have problems and we have very limited facilities in Oregon. However youth adventures has worked with the existing facilities at least 18 training schools the juvenile courts state hospital and so on. It's a private organization. Doesn't doesn't any funds for

anybody else except its own organizational members. This is entirely private it's supported by contributions from individuals churches social organizations and so on. They have very carefully avoided governmental financing in the belief that this would limit their creativity and their flexibility. Good thought I am in total agreement with that last statement all the way through. Would you please describe these trailer camps that these adventures. I'm bringing the young people on too. And who are they. What kind of young adolescents are you working with. These adolescents who are out of hospitals state hospitals delinquents police record kids what kind of people you're talking about. The program is in is expanding to include a greater variety of both the delinquent and disturbed teenagers how it however it was initiated with institutionalized adjudicated delinquent kids from the state training schools or what have been called reformatories in your past years past. Typically 20 to

40 of these teenagers either boys or girls are taken to the mountain the foothills east of Portland Oregon where they're given a 30 pound backpack and during the week will pack about 20 miles up into the rugged Cascade Mountains. They are divided into small groups of four or five teenagers assigned to a Relate counsellor who may be a housewife a mechanic a schoolteacher. I want someone for a variety of backgrounds. During the week these are not prison guards as such no. These people have no direct relationship with the school from which the youngster comes. Many of them are on their vacation time. They are all unpaid with the exception of the director and assistant director of the trip who are paid by youth adventures are full time at youth adventures. Now these kids then. Did they get out of the prisons in order to be able to go on this trip. Through the cooperation of the schools with this particular program they worked closely together throughout the year. The youth adventure

staff and the staff of the institutions they've had an ongoing program now for four years I mentioned previously the school provides a bus takes the kids to the foothills where they're met by these volunteers. They very quickly break up into teams and start right up through the mountains on the mountain trails. Has there been acceptance and on the part of the community to like I'll allow any children who could be termed hostile to society to participate in this kind of thing. And in a sort of an open manner. Very much so in fact this organization I think has had excellent public relations and has done an excellent job of public education in terms of investing involving community people in the problems of these kids. Is this a natural kind of thing for these kids to be doing. Does this occur within the society that that these kids normally live in. No I believe this is one of the advantages of the program. Most of these youngsters have never

done anything like this before in our life. Most think they couldn't possibly do what they've been told they're going to do during the week. They do a variety of very adventurous and seemingly dangerous things such as going across to a mountain river on a rope bridge which they themselves have built a variety of activities rifle shooting hatchet throwing things that make some people cringe when I hear of these kids doing it. But they've done it. They've done it well. Do you allow that a kid who has own a knife and maybe stab somebody take a hatchet and throw to the tree. Oh yes. How about some kid who's got a who's accidentally killed somebody or intentionally killed somebody along the handler rifle. Yes everyone on the trail is involved in rifle shooting there are competitive sports as well as the individual activities. And each member of each team will take their turn at the rifle range. If they had any problems with this agent by the way what age group is this roughly 14 to 18 varying problems with boys and girls either boys or girls on separate trips Yes and again probably

with a local and so runaways. Basically no this is 15 miles from the nearest major highway and that the kids don't know their way around. So this is not been a problem they also know that they try to leave and get caught they'll be returned immediately to the school. And these programs are sufficiently popular with the other kids you know the other kids will be waiting for them because it may ruin their chances of getting a take a trip at a later date so there's been no major problem this way. It's a very interesting approach to to work with you with the link with youth as such. I need the people who are involved in the program and so-called corner workers are they social workers or some of the people or are they all volunteers with no special training. Even the directors of this organization have no special training except what they picked up from doing that as the director of the organization a man named Howard Busey is an ex Marine and I'm sure picked up some of his skills from being in the Marine Corps. He had had some work with religious groups with

teenagers before really designing and incorporating his program itself. He's been very quick to pick up ideas from various professionals and work closely with them but has not had formal professional background himself. The volunteers the unpaid people come from any sort of background from college students on up through mechanics Housewives. They vary widely in psychological sophistication but none have had formal training so far as I know. Describe the advantages such approach and I wonder if the term he runs a tight tight ship means anything at all in your group. That's two questions yes and I'll answer the second part first. It is a very tight ship it's very closely organized right down to the last detail of what's in the packs what's not on the burrows. The Each counsellor is expected to know within 10 minutes where each of his team members are. There are security precautions all oh and comparison of the

institution certainly this is a very free setting. Your other question was while tight ship the other question is what is the advantage of such an approach. I think there are many and I base this in part on my understanding of group dynamics and of learning theory. First there is certainly Maximum Exposure to non delinquent models. All of these adults who they're living with working with playing with throughout the day and throughout the week. These are six day trips that they take. A second is that the groups are relatively isolated from the other delinquents or disturbed kids so that there is less chance of them inciting them to do something and I social It would let me pull apart that second one. You have good models you have my manpower models you have men and women men and women boys and girls we have some teenagers from the community along to take care of the boroughs and on girls trips we have girls from the public schools one to each team as also as a model and as someone who is there specifically to get close to these kids to show them the not so terribly different from the teenagers on the outside. That's a very very interesting

development that the community is allowing its own children to go with the delinquent children. On a trip now you said you separated away the groups from other groups. What does that mean. Yes each to each team of four or five girls plus their counselor Plus a helper. A teenage girl from the community of it's a girls team lives eats sleeps plays together they hike together on a trail each team hike 5 minutes apart. So throughout the week they have almost no contact with other teams. There is a chance to develop a very close relationship within the team. In fact they have to because they have to depend on each other to cook their own meals to prepare their their campsite and evening to lead the burros when it's their turn. Whatever it may be so they're very dependent on each other and if one slaps off the other kids need team are very quick to let them know because they don't want to do the extra work themselves. It's like boy scouts and when you have a patrol kind of thing with five five boys and a patrol leader of some sorts they do things in the

pendant really. Yet there are some community activity the suspect you have you have night sing and they sing along in this kind of thing. They have an evening camp fire assembly. They have a point program or a point system whereby each team is given points for Team songs for the competitive events for leading the boroughs for having the best camp site and so on. They sing so oftentimes and one of the leaders will give a a brief. Talk oftentimes a sort of a modern day parable sometimes me's own life and the kids are sent back to their own campsite with the instructions to talk to their own counselor if they want to. There is no pressure on them in this way and in a counseling way though the packs of these kids carry including tending material and cooking material and food and this kind of thing or is this brought up later. The heavier equipment is carried on burros which go right along with them. They have their one change of clothes and their own personal cooking at this kind of thing in their

pack and plaster their sleeping bag it weighs about 30 pounds. What's your slogan by the way. I don't know their slogan. They sound like a Boy Scout thing and I gotta look for slogans in this area. Tell me what kind of special training do the people have who work within the organization. Well I have mentioned some of this already the director has picked up a great deal so I think about the people who work beside the psychiatrist and the director. Oh yes. This relates to my own experience with the group and that as I first became acquainted with them two years ago these people had essentially none. And many of them did just naturally quite well but it was obvious that they had shortcomings on the basis of their own their own. Background they were quite concerned about behavior problems how do you deal with a kid who's trying to take over the team or simply won't work. They also tend to do inhibit at times in a counseling relationship and typically in a week the kids do come to them as a counselor so. I became involved in a series of counselor

training sessions throughout the winter of six or seven sessions every other week for the last two winters. We've used primarily roleplaying and psycho drama techniques in the sessions as well as some mimeograph material. I found it highly successful. And it's very good. Well I think that we've covered the business about using venture can anybody start a youth adventure like this. My other franchises. Do you have to do anything. Do you have training pamphlets things of this sort. There are no training bro. I Pamphilus anyone could it would take a person with some skills I think some of the X the unique features of this are that these are primarily middle class people as opposed to many of the programs they're developing now from within the lower class groups from which many of these kids come. This gives a chance for just average citizen USA to be really involved in something. Dr. Cohen This sounds like a very comprehensive program is it very expensive to the community actually it's non federally supported state supported or missile is a part of this belongs

totally to the people who who are residents of that area. What is the cost of the program. It costs about $25 per camera per week on these tape trail trips. The overall overall program of the organization is much larger than these trips well. And the early budget is just been going up by leaps and bounds year by year. What is the cost in round numbers what are the cost of first year the second year the third year in a fourth year. I can only estimate days as I recall it was about 12000 the first year 24000 the second 36000 48000 something like this that's a very very inexpensive program when you think about what you're doing how many people do you serve with this program. This is difficult to answer because they're served in so many different ways between you know by now about 700 kids have taken these kind of trips not to gether. In addition they have a halfway house where eight to 10 boys live year around. And

this lodge is used as a a center for all sorts of organizations particularly religious groups I might add as a place to to orient them to this kind of thing to educate them and so on. And as I recall about a thousand people visited this lodge last year in addition to this the three paid staff members of the organization visit the the institutions involved throughout the years on an informal basis counseling with the kids with the cooperation of the the formal counseling staff of the schools. What schools are involved how many schools and what are they the. Well there are several. The Hillcrest school for girls a state training school for a judge delinquent girls Maclaren school for boys the equivalent institution for boys. The children's farm home of Corvallis Oregon the Oregon State Hospital for the first time last year as well as working with the Multnomah County Juvenile Court in particular to work with a private organizations like Morningside.

And your own state. We've had lectures there but I have not been formally in the involvement of the kids come from their actions. No no no. Now with the business about the halfway house are these kids who don't have another place to go is this like a foster home for them. It's in the process of development. It's more than a foster home less than the usual halfway houses I think of the term. Are any of the professionals involved. He was a psychiatrist and a resident involved is this part of your training. No this is something that I just sort of fell into about two years ago I was invited to go on one of these trips became very interested in and worked with them on a unpaid voluntary basis since then on my own time. Are you the only psychiatrist involved scratched in training really involved. I'd say yes. So all the psychiatric intervention really happens on. And when your time really I don't do this I get your intervention.

I do a little education. That's about the limit of it plus make suggestions. The professionalism besides the one man you described who was a former Marine who also are the professionals. I want to describe the program kind of fully for one reason. I think there may be other people in other communities to be interested in this and they could very well write to you. Thank you overcall of Portland Oregon. But at the same time maybe some other information be of importance that while there are many interested professional people who have given that advice or donated things of this sort of thing school teachers social workers teachers social workers psychologists psychiatrists physicians. A variety of people have worked with them in the same way I have. What did your ritual catch you by the way. This is rather difficult to answer. I started out from. Being very interested in the sciences and it's gradually evolved. Right now my interests are primarily in the area of social issues that you involve minority groups delinquents

adolescents and the seeming like a natural then and then using your training in medical school get a fair dose of psychiatry. Yes I took my training at the University of Oregon Medical School and I took a combination 5 year program obtaining a masters in psychology as well as my M.D. degree in 1962 from that school. And so you have been trained in in psychology as well as in medicine right from the beginning. That's great. And now you're dealing with a very interesting group of people delinquents. So for all you know we don't know who's delinquent the parents or the kids. I suspect we can look certainly to the grandparents for some of us also. I'm wondering is there an adequate kind of training program available at this present time in your residency program is it satisfactory to you. It's been a very satisfactory program for me. We get a variety of experiences. We are trained right from the start and I think any broad

spectrum of approaches individual therapy family therapy multiple therapy the team approach. Involving community people throughout our program. I found it an excellent program and it sounds like psychiatry is really going towards dealing with a total population and you're not being trained. And I will likely do you have any any any smattering of animal and other training. We have a couple of analysts in the area who contribute to our education but does not play a major role. So you want to be actually a community social minded psychiatrist when you get to be practicing. Do you feel the future of psychiatry lays in this area. I definitely do. What kinds of things do you see as future developments in research and in the treatment of people. I see increasing emphasis on the. They're working with groups whether it be with families or marital couples or organizations to which they're attached I see the psychiatrist as becoming much more the educator for the

nonprofessional And well people much as well much like what I'm doing here at the AP AA meeting there been a number of papers on this general area. You know there seems to be more and more total involvement currently sickout is no longer willing to sit in his office and to do what only one person at a time he wants to get out and do with more. The more logical group maybe the family is the next step. And certainly there are there are communities do you see the future of a political psychiatrist or somebody who's going to be dealing with the political sciences and help all kinds of healthy people. All kinds of people actually. Certainly psychiatrists are becoming interested in this area. I'm a fellow of the group for the Advancement of psychiatry on the committee on international relations. We're discussing this area and various people on the committee are working in various aspects. The whole world actually. Do you feel that you're going to be practicing in Oregon. Are you going to be there to spend some time in the army very

shortly in the stand you'll be doing psychiatry I mean as soon as you leave in the Navy. Yes. In the Navy. How do you feel about the current problems we're having as far as people rejection of government policies when it comes to intervention in other parts of the world. I see the open discussion is very healthy. I think we'll develop a much more comprehensive and much more. Much more sound policy as a result of this increased communication between peoples as well as government and I think that psychiatry has a role to play in this isn't psychiatrically healthy fertile asked a boy who is 18 years old to go out and fight and not to give him a right to vote. The controversial point I would say no. You think it is better off voting yes. If you let him die for his country you might as well vote for his country if he's going. I suspect that there are many many problems occurring today that we didn't have to face in years gone by. And this is one of the problems are that we have faced since we are no no longer

apparently have a national view a total people view of what we do is always correct. There are there's an awful lot of the scutcheon happening. We have many many more much more public media TV radio paper and many more people reading and listening. So I suspect there are more controversial views and not so much sort of solidity in action as such. And I suspect the second world war was a nice solid backing of a particular point. We had some exclusive analyses research in the versity of opinion of things as a character of our time as far as you're concerned. And I would say so it seems like every field and fomented present including psychiatry including as a guide Very well we hope that psychiatry has answers and we certainly appreciate your coming on to our program we hope that this has been meaningful to some of the people who want to go into both the practice of medicine and psychiatry and certainly maybe this can lead the way for a different.

And different kind of program that Brinker has said we are a gal being in many many directions at the same moment. But this seems to be one direction the treatment of the link wins. In a specialized kind of way with a definite kind of approach community supported that would that has borne fruit. Apparently in four years and maybe we here in NY would be interested in getting some more information and also learning what we can do in this area. Thank you very much Dr Delbert Cole of Portland Oregon who was a third year. So I get a president of the University of Oregon Medical School and as I understand it fall in one of the gap committees. I said more squire. You have just turned another in the series the search for a mental health produced by Forest Hospital in this plains Illinois in cooperation with this station. During this series positions and other professional personnel working in the

area of mental health at Forest Hospital a hundred bed treatment facility will discuss the latest advances in mental health care research and education. Other topics such as alcoholism adolescent behavior marital problems problems of the aged and others will be presented on the search for mental health. The host for the series Mr. Morris wire administrator of Forest Hospital Research from mental health is produced and directed by Jack rigamarole. This program was distributed by national educational radio. This is the national educational radio network.