World of the Paperback; Paul Goodman's "Growing Up Absurd"

The world of the paperback. The University of Chicago invites you to join us for this series of 15 minute programs dedicated to the discussion of literary topics and the review of significant paper bound books. Each weekly program will bring to the microphone a different author authority or educator with his particular viewpoint towards the topic for discussion. The book selected for today's discussion is growing up absurd. Our guest is the author of this book Paul Goodman. Here is your discussion host from the University of Chicago Robert C. Albrecht. What things that you talked about and said in growing up I'm certain you think are most relevant today one thing there are lasting his comments. Well first I'd like to say this about the book. My publisher tells me that that book is the president selling a thousand copies a week to high school students that are so far as we can locate the sale that older high school students. The reason is that everything in it is really old hat and that's part of the general folklore of the college

students. But now with the high school students find it speaks just to their problem that's trapped. Youth the general thesis of the book is that the adult society seems to. The young like an inauthentic trap. Or rat race you know as we call them and they respond to this in different ways depending on their class background. Different nations because it's an international problem as US problems are practically the same with a look at them in Czechoslovakia Poland even Spain and the United States. Does it help to describe this is it as some call generational problem you know between or no. No it's not a generational problem. That's a yeah an allusion to the problems now are more comparable to the situations are structured around 1880.

That again if describes in fathers and children. And perhaps even close to the period of storm went wrong of the young kid to be around 1750. See the difference between an ordinary generational conflict which exists in every generation and a good deal of the energy of modern youth problems come from the generational conflict of course but the difference in ordinary generational problem. Is that there are certain periods in Western history when the dominant group. The political leaders for instance the leaders of the economy or the educational system become morally bankrupt because it's simply out of touch with modern conditions and they Marly abdicate. At that moment the generational conflict turns into revolutionary conflict and I think we're in such a period now and you know immediately pre-revolutionary I think 25 years before the overturn it took them and say eight thousand eight hundred ninety to them

25 years to make the 905 attempt in 10 more years to overthrow the Tsar and. Took the storm and drunk people. Who were. Influenced by the Phyllis off. 25 30 is they have to find a program and they must understand that the film was up for identical with social critics people like Dave Reese MN at freedom bird even Holly white just survived melds. And myself were playing exactly the role of the fools off in the 18th century. What we say is the whole thing that's a hoax and look at the spots no good parts no good this is a lie this is inauthentic this doesn't work. And these people who are leading the society simply don't know what that doing they're entirely inadequate conditions and the young believe it because in fact it's not. When did this condition become apparent in your day.

If you look at the young in 1955 you would have said that and the average university let's say maybe a half of one percent. Had a hit dissonant feeling. But then through the Beat movement and so forth in the civil rights stuff and the protesting against the fallout and the Vietnam protesting and so forth. Now I bet you only high academic universities I bet the radically dissenting group was 110 percent. You know it's fantastic growth. What about this. Ed. in the university young people. Well as I said the high school students were about to blow up and I don't think the way their school principals understand that it's a sign of a morally bankrupt adult class that it never knows. What the truth is. And one high school principal for instance.

Make the youngsters cut off their long hair or something like that. They simply don't realize that they're playing with fire. You know I was rather stunned us stepped up those kids and commit suicide in the restaurant. But that could happen in a minute. Is the the situation I was not directly or primarily or only concerned with education by any means. No no no no it's quite general. Put it this way the Salian conditions in modern times for instance that we have a splendid high technology is absolutely no use to it. It hasn't been put to any use whatever except to increase the number of gadgets and to make new weapons. You know it's a travesty that this fantastic scientific growth. Should have no more human use. You know this kind of junk. All over the world is a extraordinary Epona sation which is just out of

hand. No attempt is made to check it to understand what it means to try to make a better ecological relationship between country and city. Fact as you know such an idea is utterly would be utterly unheard of. Or UN thought of by Lyndon Johnson or Hubert Humphrey who never think of such a thing. Obviously there's one world you know of communications trade. Travel means etc.. And also with the nuclear bombs. And yet these people go on with this baroque national state and power structure politics which is utterly out of date and has no kid in the United States who cares one iota about it except some hoodlums. See when these kids bring their draft cards it doesn't mean they're unpatriotic. Not at all. It's that they think that the whole notion of national states is gone. They're American in their bones. These kids but they make sense.

And our political leaders are making no sense and I don't mean I mean this country. It's quite the same around the world wherever these national states exist. And his power structure thinking it's utterly archaic. Well done a new generation comes up and says You see we don't belong now in the older time when I wrote growing up absurd I had to it seemed to me that they were acting as if they were trapped. In an inauthentic situation. But then suddenly it became clear to them that the situation was inauthentic. And instead of feeling trapped they just say that they are legitimate. They the young the legitimate and to put it in Berkely times the Board of Regents this illegitimate Who are these regents. Why are they the Regents of the state of California. We are the reasons the state of California. It is our university. And I really think that I'm dead bang right. I make the title of your book when did people not grow up and when the

Society of the adults is a Society for the young. When it is performing some real social function that is believable to the young. Then it's not an absurd situation. Now I don't think we've ever had. Absurd. Youth. Adult relations in this country until maybe. 0 toward the end of the 30s. But in other times in Europe you know such as the before the French Revolution in France where there was the old regime which was just no longer real. And you know how revolutions are they aren't made from below they're made by abdication of the ruling group that goes on just mechanically. Where are these young people finding their leaders among themselves are among our

older generation among themselves that don't have leaders. There's temporary leadership for temporary things like the Free Speech Movement in Berkeley but I was out there from time to time. It was a beautiful kind of orderly anarchy that they engage in that they don't have ideology and they don't have leaders who get top down direction. They don't believe in that. Now if you ask where they're intellectual leaders. Well you know they said don't trust anybody over 30. That's the phrase I'm more or less acceptable to them as a kind of honorary young person but I think that a good deal of that is just to be friendly.

Well I think some of the some of the key organizations are not by key I simply mean Central and representative with this and Snick snack STDs the Free Speech Movement. Groups like that of these by the way. Yes that's my least favorite happens. I think they kind of coordinate. Middle position I think the Free Speech Movement in Berkeley is the most powerful and authentic and represents the majority of the population. Snickers extremely genuine and authentic but of course it represents the underprivileged group which in the United States say at most 30 percent U.S. But those two groups between them I think cover the field STDs is much too ideological and therefore extremely introspective because the ideology doesn't make any sense for 30 Elegy. Not that the hot sun on the right. Yes and support. And

also there's been a change I think the SDF of the Port Huron statement was a period intellectually to the SDF of the present period. Is it true is some people charge that the young people don't know what they want in an important way. They don't know what they want in the sense that they have no worked out program for a future society. But then if Hubert Humphrey and the head of General Motors don't know where they're going how should we expect 20 year olds to know where they're going. Some things they do know they want to society that doesn't exclude anybody. In our present society excludes the view of the anemone that excludes the young. Now the young there are 48 percent of the population are under do you know that are under 26. So because the Negros thats 20 million people it includes excludes the aged everybody of a 60. That excludes the displaced pharmas probably 30 million people. In other words we have a social

structure which has a place for a small minority of its members. Its an outrageous way of running society. So they want that. They want to side it doesn't exclude anybody that Fanta place for everybody use for everybody. They want democracy in the real sense substantive democracy that is a society in which. You have some real to say. Not just voting for some candidates at some parties trick up you know in how your life is run. If you are any university you want to say in the curriculum you want you want to place on the board of regents if you are and if you're concerned with social welfare you want that social welfare to be run from below. You know in the neighborhoods if you're going to do urban renewal the urban renewal has got to be done by the people who live going to live in the houses not by bureaucrats. They want substantive democracy because formal democracy doesn't work that's what the citizens are

about to try to make the democracy work. Citizen true they don't know what they want but they don't have a spelled out program. That's why I said taken 25 years to make a revolution. The guest for today's discussion of his book Growing Up absurd was author and educator Paul Goodman. Your host for the world of the paperback is Robert C. Albrecht assistant professor of English at the University of Chicago next week. Milton Friedman the Paul Snowden Russell distinguished service professor of economics at the University of Chicago will discuss his own book Capitalism and Freedom. The world of the paperback is produced for a national educational radio by the University of Chicago in cooperation with W A I T. This is the national educational radio network.