A conversation with...; Bernard Haitink, part one

A conversation with Bernard hiking. This is another in a continuing series of programs each of which offers the listener a rare opportunity to hear an eminent musician informally discussing his own career and expressing his thoughts about a variety of topics related to the art of music. The regular participants in these discussions are Aaron Parsons professor and chairman of the department of theory and composition of Northwestern University's School of Music and program annotator for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. And George St. program director for Zenith radio corporation's serious music station WEF am in Chicago. That is an English guest for this conversation is Baron ard. The permanent conductor of the concert get out of Amsterdam and principal conductor of the London Philharmonic Orchestra. This program necessarily was taped on location instead of the sonically controlled atmosphere of a broadcasting studio. And for that reason you'll be aware of certain extraneous sounds partly caused by the movement of the microphones and cables worn by the participants and partly by noises within the

building and from the street. We found that the sound would prove less distracting if the listener were told to anticipate them. Now addressing Barnard here is Aaron Parsons. Perhaps we could you could give us a hint of what the special features the special character musical characteristics of the arms for the concert was that that was delicious. Well that was negative as I think on this current government is on the individual individual and therefore this current with an interest in who has an interesting article for the America level very interesting and fascinating and not an easy kind of Google. And for example we think of the oval example that your neighbors had rather a hundred years like the

very fact that there are between Germany and France I think like our government. And there are millions of times and it is there that the authority that in America that no one's in but I think so yes Lee and the brass you have a tremendous tradition in grass in the in that were yes there are other heavy brass style that very well for a book and of course and you can also switch it over for more light. For example in the heathen there was a book which you know you were there at the spring of the incident and gotten into the dock and group with the bus north through the brass characteris have a look at that and embezzle I like it that it's in the music or with the you know.

Noted this of course is ideal. Those marvelous horns and trumpets in the broker I don't want to feel realistic in the moment you may say it and I do so happily. I would like your reaction to something. A number of years ago when the orchestra all thought it was theirs and all in a conversation with one of the principal players I got an opinion from him which struck me as being in a very interesting he said that having at that time heard several of our principal orchestras in this country. But he was left with the impression that the singular difference between these orchestras and American orchestras was that here it was machine makers. There's it innocence. There is much more heart in the music making of the winter and other celebrated European This is when there is in the American heart

as you think this is. Well I moved in with two to say because I'm European I saw the European sometimes think we invented music and in the poor to earn that respect but you're not the only or that was not the instrument which is an excellent orchestra that I know about that there's another way was the one with which you made your debut. Yes and that has a brass section that I think is the best one of the best you can imagine. Well I think things have changed. Then do it is because of this was one of the markets up as those years ago 67 and I think European orchestras has. Have more precision and the Americans have got more warm ice and we've got coming nearer as a listener I think this is

very cool because there's that much closer to a solution or closer contact between European and American workers as there is in this international exchanges as occasion. Yes there is a lot of ill will that will is done and it has to do something with as I say. I think there are American orchestras are feeling more relaxed as he did 10 years ago as a goal and more of them as if your film is about as it could be fired. Part of that and and I think that's not going to agree on the surface crisis. I think things have no more difficult not too far. I'm a musician and I think you can hear the camera relaxed and then you get the warmest winter I think that's one of the things in this business in that there is a lot of what is that you think building the building itself with the concert hall is a

herb it was built in the early 80s through the orchestra and has grown up in this hall where it still plays you know played with the orchestra in many places in the United States elsewhere in Europe. What do you think that this is the hall the only orchestra and it's going to move the cause of an orchestra. It's I think the opposite. This particular thing for the red bar because and in this hall and those we saw in an orchestra to her and to play every day in the same beautiful all through you can make a beautiful sound and then you are aware of trying to make a motor on it and that all that is of him. I nor your cousins who could be potential that or

not that will do anything when there's a lot of the money to archive her other than the government who wants to spend money on. That's the group and move them. It goes that is so difficult to build a good wall is the New York Philharmonic the center hole is that it is difficult is just the orchestra poor the whole is on the run the best you can do when you go by yourself. You know have been in this respect not with the you know. In Orchestra Hall here in Chicago as here they have been adjusting the acoustic from the outside of the season. There was a problem with resonance.

I got the impression from the recordings of the evolved orchestra that the hall itself is is quite a warm and resonant acoustic or as you wish and that's the effect of the warmth of the whole the well is this going in this very group was training for this here unless you can play and the reason is well it has a warms of sound not the high fidelity sound with some new holes that the real world in 2001 when you yourself began as a string player I was and not one of the best of us with that and you know the orchestra that's the I think the curveball for me to play in the open you sniff the you know the mentality of the president and the different when the thing was very very healthful food I thought he could do that I was a youngster who to be alive and

well I was a bargain hope of one of those there are more out there that are than. So they knew that orders were on there that the conduct of the war as so many people wish to believe will can you do is wonder if you will to the conservatory other ignored Iraqis are getting a lot of heat on them either of them than they who look at enough of them. Your first experiences as a conductor. I'd be interested to know how this came about Europe. You're a player early. Well I wasn't yet at the moment I've had my last year of MN music and in the end they wanted to get them to conduct those girls who could go to radio which is how every similar leagues and I pass an examination and that is when the. And if you had an ally who's going to go with the other open and

you help me very much. Well good conduct was six weeks and the next oh my god there's a different person. Well then it walked out of her that I had a significant other thing you never can doubt of the curfew. You can want to weaken the but you don't have not as the how can you how can people have more how can people know well if you ask about my experience as a conductor I think first that cumbered is not better than the who this guy only remember I close my eyes for five minutes about love the look of those lows was Are you ready or better than him. Nickel then when other areas almost legendary story of this board about your first conducting experience with the with that orchestra and I think that those that will buy the illness or the lottery or Julianne and tell us

about that would you please or yes I don't know that story you haven't had in mind that with her is one is not who one is to a lot of those would relate to the Other than anyone else in the last moment here. He was supportive can never be easy man a sailor that you know and I connected that were going to the choir already and he moons ago and it was at work as the management called me and wanted was gone and in that mission and again with a band was there and get in there and once again I don't know why they said no when he would have bored with it and I would just go and you begin as a conductor and want to stay without her than going out in it. As you imagine with the president then at the right way to go because stubborn people will and I will give them

that directly and here in Chicago this bus he really is a guest is a visit and I must say that this is breaking into the tough mother the grog that has a dividend whatever it is it is it is it is seems to work because it comes to this. This will lead to further and Gage wins with New York and it is a state that is was there reading for the month of August as a conductor and was a government that was going to one of those and switched organs because he won as a goal when the doctor was musical and with women or at the can on the good news your season. Well we have six weeks holiday center one Liquori and Christmas presents dine and one the lady whom Easter is that the play and I don't conduct that he goes with us I do only half of all kinds of

moves when it is your MIL's musical directors who hear the orchestra as I think one of uniformity consent and conduct. Think you know that as a Title 13 14 for an eye on your leaves from the orchestra. Do these come in in isolated periods where there is that intermittent throughout the season. Take for example two weeks at one time to get conduct elsewhere has one nuns were three three weeks and one man's three leagues in general and not three weeks in and needs really sort of character. How would you react to the kind of burden and I think it is a burden that the principal conductor of one of our American orchestras has to carry on and I mean you personally and I am not asking for your opinion of whether it's

an honor but the would you enjoy theirs or would you find it to the other humans to Harry that kind of Lol much earlier is relative. You think it's bigger here as in as music are you. I think generally speaking that they they conduct more concerts in the course of the season than you as I've said I think it's very very heavy ones and I was with her and knew her. And he also loses a good point. Even though you have been very busily conducting your own orchestra and presumably those tires you artistically as well as physically when you got away from Iraq was there too. Yes because you find that this is sort of the revitalizing you have no mistakes because I'm not and looks very

crazy about guest conducting because you go somewhere for three four days you could have her musical by night workers or another. Well perhaps in Toulouse you can back but you can't move very much done in Israel for that. So I found a solution in the eight rigs I do as a good as high as a quarter of all I can look to London for the moniker of the principal on the concert when I'm with them so that and moment and what I do and then when I complain of them other than I can when moments are at this because it has more unity for me and so I don't travel too much around on the goodwill that they are more than another without the all that not that it's an ex that was a lot and I don't have to go to too much to go through every part of the world was really had with his or hers and the danger because you can be in Florida New York and six hours in the Rangers and.

But even though you were doing as you say the repertory in London and you're dealing with two different entities. Yes this was mates were there. And this fascinates me because of the orchestra and the women orchestra because that's just the barons with really cool with the thing that you can and need to go through to many different places is it in its infancy and in her innate that there's an orchestra and then the whole live on the whole sensor at the moment for a few years I think it's it was a while as recent as a little girl or the thought of different from here as a player for only conductor was there. And so I'm not a music director and the principal conductor and acoustic guitars or I know that are going on but that have the

burden with them because that would be too much to look at the thing where the conductor is that has played all of those years were a little is of the same sort of systems that were leading us and this is one of the winners of the top and after that after that our 3 years are going to come as they were a few years and getting or America and all of them that he will be one of them and that is because you got to get in there. And he's young he's 25 of them and as a loses their leaders take over some of the goals of the regular well that he conducted six going in this season and he can let them goals and I was in the summer so he can then he's taking nothing over but we burned some pants holes a section of the holes that were for her.

Well your assistant must be prepared to take over at anything that is dialed or where she was not in the unit or to him as we prepare and went and paid and I'm very interested in the structure as well because I wonder if you would define for me precisely what Mr. Lit I says. Well Mr. clubhouse is and of worth a declared is because I think there are other. Yes there is that in the valleys are getting very very upset. He's the one that hired out as you can make whether we are dealing with the programs and or in the soul with an amazing that he shares with Hughes I really responsible as you that's who wish ill is currently the music director.

You have an orchestra and I know very well. Yes help is a great help and I'm not the one man show man I don't believe in that that for myself for the reason was that it wasn't people less than that I would not hear them as others or for myself speaking is a very good thing to have a man. Then the new one was and of course and in this case that is true who has ID's He's a very intelligent man and he knows every music that is written in the the organisers and that's the sort he's a great help other than the others because important all the time and making plans and I think that's a very good thing to have somebody as you as as as you know all of that. Well I have a question for you. The community that it was where we discussed that and sometimes you hear and heard some of your ego and will burn a little here of Unical virus to hear some people wouldn't even go back and marry her.

It's a good habit what I can do and you can do everything again. Well this is a very good or that is that the text which is perfectly related studies because there is a feeling here that perhaps some of our principal are being required to carry too large a lower than I think is not human any more than you have to get your confidence you have to do with an orchestra. You have to clean your scores you have to agree the coming season or coming season you have to do or what you have to do on that tour the truth of the earth has as good a selection the nuchal has issues. As I said I didn't know if you're right well so he knows what I like about I don't like what I don't like but he lives. He's not what I think of life than corporate

percentage or how extensively do move for new contemporary because he there for the European or because we do quite a lot of the oil. Yes they have who miniseries to big series. It was good to go now to save. Then they have of the series which overheard her then they have a new series of just only more than with all the injuries and then they have been in there in the series of Regan's of this dress that I wonder. We have the planning to make the Rams big series of the to me were series that we get and then through the center a series of well formed screens get what the rhythm of the whole much public as well as you get through the

series. Well and there the picture is not who we are at the moment it begun very well it's not that it's going off very well there's no doubt all that then it's a going down and now we haven't all that will say fifteen hundred two hundred people either that this is threatened by that because I don't know. Well it was not obvious that normal more than serious women were much better than people and that's more interested in the program or less. That is the difference between a let's say a balanced program where you would have bought and yet as opposed to or the world is very different when it was your feeling about it every day and but if you don't have a solution that the girls in Newark are difficult to have a good idea about the DC or the judgment about who that

is compose now and ignore the history Carmen of these little letters and so it is difficult for us who the audience is and that's where that will go and if you always are very early look at the look in by the audience when you pray. For example known as the North. That sort of composers when you play it's only worth as a separate than when you played seven in the corporate world and then when the alternate because normal is not only kind of the commoner than you're going with you can music and more it is that simple that you limit the audience and wary about the big gap between very modern composing and musicians and on those earthen vessels or at the end all of that and they get this going when the writer applied and that's a very

worrying signal. You play many composers was with a hyper Reserve. All right a lot because we think you know the characters and we have to do something for people to move worlds as well as well you know the person like well yes he's got enough of that and he's the man who is in that innocent. And I do not only for his music but. The music of the moment and Garter or me or rather with something that's not enough but very big hearted move but he's great so we are not well that's of course when the reason Louis is there a little of the true of him. He's the dreamer it isn't because of that and that.

Yes you can say that wealth is kind of his yes from Byron as others as there are my emerge from here and it is more interesting than I can say that honestly because I can say that openly because Mrs. misses that I've said things that are already saved from Byron is a very serious and interesting man and he is the world let's say of about the pilot a little later. Who Went In The Serialist direct yes because we were going to you know will help them or was also a pupil of Piper here going the other way or other where he's on the different side of the of the. And he says Oh Mrs. Ford is only writing music he has to work on it so that music at the end is that electronic You will like that is a little bit you know there comes your business and then it ends up with a hanging on the knees and oh he's nice if that had been the one who.

As a as a father so you can speak about this earth for days and nights and get things or using things and others who brings to mind and gatherings and because of our sins and I were driving them when we were discussing those and we wondered if god beings had come away from a traditional is blind that he had originally embraced Is this an accurate appraisal of how he has gone. You see I must say this that we in this country regrettably need almost no opportunity to hear Dutch music before and only too rarely on the record and so we know what we read and what we hear about it with us as well as in the IF in the. Brother you see is there when her mood gets imposed and invest works if he has written music musical healing he was awarded a very clear cut if you know this as you say

after that he is very he's not very interested in a form of music and he has left. He's the sort that he is going forward in very much interest than a commuter and is combining this in his still a conditional. There's the man with composers who got a very peculiar the media mogul the man the medium with a mixture of the personal and not so happy that it has only a beginning has there been any use of these electronic music if we can call it militant in the album Guard as a reserve and new not yet at the Mormons and that has to do with the hooker that will serve as an author. And the opportunities to and where the real lives never goes you know because people who are because you were

one of her that I heard something about it and the cars are ready to quit as I said before and here I took it as an example because in the last at least 16 speakers this is going so much musical musical. But that's also very passionate as I mean. Well you know I think that you're expressing what is a fairly universal feeling among your colleagues and one of our earlier guests on this group who was a little we were all very well acquainted said please don't ask me about this because I am a musician and you're not talking about music you know that's a leader. And it is really the Gershwin orchestra has paid too much more difficult and it has to do with really.

And you're listening to a conversation with the eminent doctor conductor Bernard hyping with Aaron passes and George still on or those who may have tuned in after the program had begun. We repeat that this is not a studio tape and the extraneous sounds were unavoidable. Now we pause 10 seconds for station identification.