New Mexico and the Vietnam War: Portrait of a Generation; Interview with Hieu Doan, Disc 2 of 3

Telling me about going out on the street, and I don't know what to do, but I'd love for you just to say that moment for me was unforgettable, it's all I need you to say. Okay, that's, you know, when I went on the trees with my dear, and I don't know how to do, and it's very sad, I can say now, it's just an unforgettable moment, and that's all you have to do. Yeah. That's the TV part of this, sorry, it's a little, feels a little weird. Okay, you went to the ships, you went to hometown? No, my friend told me, okay, because they sing all, so they told me we go to the Vong Tau to have some fishing boat, and we can run, you know, we can run, and I said, okay, we'll go with you,

but you just only after I said that, and I told them, no, I cannot know, because I have my family, I have a wife and two children, I cannot do with you, okay, good luck, you got to go. Are you captured? After 15 days, it captured me in another place, not in Saigon. Yeah. How did that happen? What did they do? When I met my family, and my wife and my two children came home, and my wife said, because, you know, we don't have money, we don't have anything, we can live in here, so that's why my wife want to go to her hometown, about 300 kilometers away. So I said, okay, do that girl, and I will

bring, you know, some like kitchen stuff, and I will bring the bag and something else later. So when my wife and two children came to her hometown, after a couple of days, I ran a car, I ran a truck, you know, put some, you know, furniture and something else in the truck, and go to my wife's hometown, but right in the middle, they cut me, yeah, they, you know, they cut me right in the middle, and after that, they sent me to, to one camp, I can, I can say that a very terrible camp, very terrible camp. I

spent 90 days in that camp, before I go to another camp, yeah. What made it terrible? It's terrible, because at nine, five officers, they have, you know, the, the cup, they have a light, like the handcuff, and not like the handcuff, they have a one, it looked like the, the U letter, and you put on right here, and five, they have, you know, the long metal, and they, they, they, they locked five people in one, and at nine, if you, if you sit up,

you have to tell them, if not, they sought you right away, yeah, they sought right away, yeah, if you have something like, you need to do at nine, like, you read or whatever, so you have a, I, everybody have a, the, the, the, the cut trick, you know, the cut trick, or a container, and we have, before, we sit up, we have to, to sell, like, I want to, something like that, and when they recognize you, and you can see it, if not, they sought right away, because they, they said, maybe you get kicked, and on the day of time, around, that's how the

renet, you know, and my, and along, and along, it's very terrible, and they cut me, they cut me like that, 90 day, 90 day, yeah, I'm sorry, what happened during the day time? The day time, they uncup it, and we have to go, to work, very hot level, to work, but, you know, it's terrible at night, because work does okay, you know, because on that time, I think just only 25 years old, so that's okay, but, you know, at night, they cut it, and, you know, at my, at my my, I don't know, you know, like, it cries, blooding, you know, it's terrible for 90 day, yeah. And why did they put you in the camp? Why?

After the second collapse in 1975, they, they arrest me, but another one, in, in June, they issued a notice, every South Vietnam officer have to report, have to report to them, and go into concentration camp, but they said that re -education camp, yeah, and they told them, just only bring 10 day of food, no more, just only 10 day, so everybody talk, okay, just 10 day, just go, yeah, just go to report to them, and we go 10 day after that, we can come back home, we can come home, but not right, not 10 day,

we have to spend some three day, I spend almost eight, so three years, I spend almost eight years, and a lot of people spend more than that, 13 years, 18 years, but they just and only said, 10 day, yeah, they love, I don't know how to use or to hate plan in English, maybe, not they, you know, they lie to us, they lie to us, they say, okay, you can go just a 10 day, and after that, you know, you go home, but no, why do they keep you eight years, until now I don't know, they want to keep Earth, they keep, you know, I can say the first thing, they want to cure us,

but they cannot kill 100 ,000 people, so that's why they put us in the concentration camp, concentration camp, and they want to kill us by Titan Outstorming, you cannot, if I say, maybe you cannot imagine how we can leave it like that, we don't have it closed, we have it closed, it's tore apart, and we have it, we have it to you, the sandbag, the sandbag, and we, you know, we, we make our, our boxer, and our T -shirt by the sandbag, and when we go to the,

the knock, very cold, we don't have, you know, we don't have the blanket, for the first year in 1976, we don't have any blanket, the second year in 1997, they gave Earth the very teen blanket, you know, but, and I say before, they want to kill us by Titan Outstorming, Dae -jee And yeah! So anyway, I say do you know why this virus stares at us, Kassava. Kassava.

Kassava. Kassava. Kassava. Kassava. It's only two bits or Kassava at learn at five inch, eight, two bits. And one very small spoon, spoon of rat. That's one. No thing. One g is it only have two mil with me, a smith at big at the one finger, at big at one finger. On the day September 2nd, they said, you know, the National Day. And they just only two mil a year with me and only around the Kassava and two bits for each mil. So what happened to you? How did you stay alive?

In 1970, I think in July or in June 1978, my weight just only 70 pounds. I cannot walk. I just only crawl. And I'm on the waiting lead to go, on the waiting lead to go to, to, to, to help. I'm in the waiting lead. And he gave me two spoons of sugar. Yeah, and I can say it like, you know, $100 ,000 on that up. And I put so a little in,

in my mouth, I feel the sugar run to my body, run to my whole body. And the next day, I can walk with some help. And I ask him, he's, I ask him, are you going with you tomorrow? To work? And he said, how did you get to work? I said, I tried. And I go with him, but you know, I pretend to go to work, but not to work. It's just only how to send a letter to, not the letter, but just only a, a note to my family. So I, I take the paper like this, and I wrote some mom help my wife come to see me. I'm dying.

And I said, on the booth along the, along the road, you know, and one lady go by, one lady went by, and I told the note to her and she got it. She got it, but she, and she did it. But when she came to see her husband, said the communist car told her, if, if you keep any letter from the prisoner, I don't let you to see your husband. And she have to give it to them. She have to give it to them. And in the, about fire, they call me up to the office. They asked me, what you did this morning?

I know, they, they know what I do. So I said, okay, I send the note to my, my mom. He said, he said, what's in the note? I said, I just only said, just help my wife come to see me. I'm dying. That's all. And they said, oh, you good. Okay, but you know, because you're so, so sick, so I don't, you know, let you in the, in the connect, like in the, in the room with me, you know, like the discipline group. And I'm very lucky, not ready. She just only read the note and she wrote to my

hometown. She, she went to my hometown, and she, she taught me some people, some, ever someone, that name, like that, like that, like that. And he died. And my sister, she heard about that. And she taught my mom, tried to help my wife come to see me after a couple of months, come to see me. You know, from the south Vietnam, go to the north Vietnam, about 15, about 1 ,500 kilometers. But not easy, like, if you're not dead, no. It's very high for two days in the train. And walk from the, the, the train station to my camp, about 50 kilometers. What?

And my mom and my wife walked to come to see me. And somebody, you know, help me, you know, take me to see them. You know how long the coming, let me see my mom and my wife. Five minutes. Five minutes. They said, they call me to the office and say, here, now your mom and your wife come. What do you want to say to them? I said, you know, I almost died. I don't have enough power to say anything. And they said, okay, you have a five minute to see your mom and your wife. You know, five minutes. I don't say any. I literally help my mom and help my wife and

get some stuff and go. You say, from the south to the north, it's very, very difficult. Like that, they let me see my wife, you know, five minutes. Well, you were in the camp for eight years. How did you stay alive? I can say, in 19, from 19, early, from 19, early. They lose, you know, they lose, they lose an enemy. They let our family can come to visit us one a year. And every three months, they let our family have it to send a packet about three kilograms, three kilograms, with some food.

And one a year, they can come to visit us. And from 1980, you know, we were having better. We didn't better. And last day, in 1977, to 1979, in the winter time, eight days, one person of earth died, eight days. Can you believe it? In my camp, there's only about 1100 political prisoners. That means the officer of South Vietnam, just on the 11, 1100 in my camp. But from, from the winter's 1977 to 1979,

they died over 300, over 300. Because, you know, we like our food, you know, the food like I told you, just only that. We like our food, and we just think, no medicine, nothing. So, you know, most people die, because that diary, after that diary, and that's something now, you know, and very terrible with the, I guess, and, you know, that, yeah. No medicine, nothing. No doctor, nothing. Yeah. Boy, for this plane to go by. Did you

escape from the camp? How did you, after eight years, how did you get out? Oh, no. It's very hard to escape, because, you know, they don't let we stay in the city. No. We stay in the jungle, we stay in the border, Vietnam, and China. We not stay in the city. So, you know, it's very hard to escape. And if someone escape, it has someone, but when they caught them, they saw it right away. So, you cannot escape, because, you know, when you certainly see high mountain, mountain, mountain, mountain around, and jungle, and you don't have food. And I can say, the community, they organized the local

people around. If they see, if they see someone else, someone stranger, they cut right away. If, if, if they start right away. So, you know, it's very hard to escape in the dark. Yeah. And, well, how did you get out after eight years? Until now, I don't know. They said, okay, they said, if you be a very good person, they, so you will be released as soon as possible. Yeah, they said like that. And, after a year, by year, by year, so one says, how to be a good people? I learned everything, you know, I learned

everything now, I can do it, and they said, you know, not we have to keep you. You know why? Because the people out there, they, they hit you guys because you are very criminal. So, if you guys, if we let you out, they killed you guys right away. So, we have to keep you to protect you. They said like that. You speak to say, they said like that. And, after a year, by year, by year, by year, by year. So, we don't worry about the release of it or not. Because, you know, everybody, you know, on that time, we said, okay, we don't care. You know, you stay for, you don't talk that many more, so we don't care. So, you know, on day, we just only, you know, joke together,

if they put the an and the an go to your name, that means they released you. That's mean. So, you, you don't know until now, I don't know how they released us. I think maybe, you know, the pressure from United States, the pressure from France, the pressure from Canada. Yeah. Because you, they know how many people, the companies keep in the V .S. in the case of care. And in 1980, I can say, in 1980, 1980, we heard some, we heard some from, from the family who come to visit, we heard some about American, discussed to them, discussed to them, pressure them to release us. We, we know that. And in 1972, when they moved us

from the North Vietnam back to the South, we, we went through Hanoi, the capital, went to Hanoi, got thousand Vietnamese people, stand along the trip, wave at us, wave at us. Hey, everybody, let me go with you. And we, we, we, you know, we, you know, we, the handcuffed to them. I said, you say, I said, I know, but I know you will go to America. So, let, we go with you. On that time, the people at Hanoi, they said like that, yeah, I'm very surprised. Well, when you were finally released,

what did you do? When they released me, they, I, because, you know, I was in the North, the North, and what did the North, at the occasion camp, in the North, at the occasion camp in the North. So, you know, everybody released from the, the North, don't have the, then like the, the how I asked, you know, don't have it. But, you know, I don't know why, when I, when I came home, every three day, they asked me, have it to go to the police station, every three day. What did you talk? What I did for that three day. So, you know, I made the report,

let out, let out, let out. And I know the three day, I have to, I had to come to the police station again for almost one year. And after that, I get hungry. I can say, I get hungry. I say, you need to let me make our living. If I have to go every three day, how I can make my living, how I, and they said, you cannot do that job, right? You cannot do barber, the work at the barber shop, at the coffee shop, you cannot do the, the, the dry sickle. So, nothing, they don't let us communicate with the people. Yeah. So, it's very hard on that for one year.

And after that, you know, they said, okay, now, one week. So, couple of months, one week, I add them, but it's one week, how I can. So, you know, they let me, one month. They after one month, and they said, okay, now you don't have it, but we will send the police to you whenever we need it. So, you know, sometimes maybe one or two months, one guy come to my house, to check on me, like that, or come up here. So, I have, after the day, I have to stay in the country for, over eight years, eight years. And after that, we can do a United States. How did you come to the United States? In the end of

1989, we heard about some programs like S .O., humanitarian operations, something like that. And some friends in United States, you know, say I'm so message, you know, to learn, or what, you know, to us, like, American, make a deal to the communist. So, you arrive, you go to the United States. So, after we heard that, we go to, we go to, to one department, I don't know what is the department, to turn in the application. So, we turn in the application. And we don't know, you know, we don't

know, we can go or not, but just to turn the application, like, you know, the people, the sea, you know, you get whatever you will, you know, you will hold it. So, in 1991, the, the, the U .S. are a consultant, send them to our family that had them, because they, they receive the application. And they make the, they give us an appointment to, to interview. And, in night, I think in maybe in September, in 1991, we go to interview. And they have everything, our resume, you know, lot of things, and how many children, they have,

they have everything. And they said, okay, you go to the United States. And, you know, so, my family left Vietnam in September 1990, 91. I'll wait for the chat. What went through your mind when you learned you were going to the United States? Were you happy? Were you sad? Were you confused? Tell me about what, when you learned, you were going, what went through your mind? I can say on that time, a lot, a lot of, a lot of things happened. I thought it's very happy to go to the United States. That's the first thing. The second thing is sad thing, because, you know, I have to let my parents, I have left my parents over 70 years ago. On that time, I have to let them. But I am the only to.

So, you know, I confuse, we should go or not. So my parents told me, let's go. So, yeah, because you're the children's future. Just go. And I said, okay, you know, if you said that, I go. Yeah, very confused. Happy to go to the United States to make, you know, the new life, or stay, you know, very hard time, but, you know, my parents. So, you know, on that time, eat my parents. He said, you should stay, I will stay. But he said, you should go. You will be your children's future.

That means I go. When I went to the United, I don't have any money. My father paid me $400. That's what I have. So, walk me through this, or share your experiences best you can. What does it like? Did you come around a boat? Did you come around a airplane? I go by a plane. A airplane? Yeah. When you're getting around the airplane, what's going through your mind? And that time, I don't know, you know, where, you know, where I will, you know, where I don't know. You know, so I question my mind. I question my mind. Can we make a living in the United? Because you know, a lot of my friends told me, you should go to California. You should go

to, what's in the DC? Or you should go to Houston, Texas. But I never had any friends. So, I don't know where to go. You just only know United States. That's it. But a little where, what's it? And when, sorry, but you're getting around the plane, what's in your mind? What are you thinking? Oh, when I, when I got in, in the plan, so, you know, I was thinking, okay, maybe I told my wife, I told my wife, my wife worried about, you know, the new life in the United States, no English, nothing. And I said, don't worry. I told my wife, don't worry. I spent seven years in the

military. I'm not dying. I spent almost eight years in the concentration camp. I still alive. So, I still have my hand. So we can make the living in the United States. Don't worry. I told my wife, how did you get to Albuquerque? Oh, when I, when I went to, when I stopped at Thailand, and the worker, I don't know, I O .M. Department told me, I go to Albuquerque, I don't know where, Albuquerque. I don't know. So I just, we, a little English, I remember, and I, I learned from, you know, high school, I had to work away. I worked, and she said, I'm working in New Mexico.

I imagine. New Mexico, that means very close to Mexico, that means in the South, I just only know that. And, you know, at that time, no, no English, nothing. It's very hard. Very hard when I learned in Seattle. And other than that, you do Albuquerque about nine o 'clock at night. I think everything big, everything big. Yeah. Even, you know, they, they took me along the, the Zuni Road, Zuni Road, as you see now. But I said, oh my God, it's big, it's huge. Yeah. Did you like Albuquerque? Did you care where you

just happy to be out of Vietnam? Can you think back to what maybe your reaction was when you came here and the new life was possible? I mean, what, can you tell us a little bit about, or share a little bit about that, at first big step into a new life? And I told you before, I'm ready to get anywhere in the United States. So, I only did repair for that. So, I, I don't worry about, you know, how to survive, because I told you that before. So, when I, when I was in Albuquerque, just only three months, I was looking for the job. And after a couple of days, I got the job.

I loved the job. And I worked for the very good guy. I can say, he is the only boss in my life, the only one, the only boss in my life. And I worked for him, but he is very good. He helped me how to, how to, how to work in his company. And he helped me, even, he helped me the money to get, to buy the laundromat after two years. And I can say, you know, he, like, like, friend, like father, because he owed. Yeah. And I'm very close to him until he died. He died a couple of years ago. Yeah. Did you think about, why I don't know, it's right,

where does, um, news mom was part of Operation New Life, where people were taken out of Southeast Asia and brought to the United States, just like you were. Um, what did you think when you got here? Did you actually say to yourself, oh, my God, I've got a second chance. Did you think I've got a new start here? I'm so happy. I mean, what, what, I, I guess I'm just kind of curious that you, almost like you have two lives, right? Yeah, that a different life. Yeah, a very different life. I'm just curious what, how you could sum that up about coming to the United States and what that meant to you? I can say to most of the enemy people, the refugee, you know, the refugee or

the political, political regional. So United States is the promised land. Because in here, we can have a job. We don't have it to be controlled by the police. And my children, they can be at very good education here. I used to tell my, my children, if you live in Vietnam, you have it to, you have it to be a tricycle people or you have to be a label, a art label, a worker. You cannot get education because they, in Vietnam, we don't, they don't last our children. Go up to nine red. No,

not nine red. Just only eight red have it to drop out. They don't let our children go to night it. So how they can make the living without education. But in here, they can get the very good education if they want. Yeah, even we don't have money, but they have a lot of things, you know, fun, whatever. So I can say I have a very good opportunity for my children. I can, I can, I can say I can, I can imagine, you know, if my children live in Vietnam, I don't know how to do it. Practices too. Maybe I can say a lot of women have it to sell to foreign country to be about

practitioners. Yeah, you're going to change. We'll take a short break.