New Mexico in Focus; 722; Brian Jay Jones, Jim Henson Biographer

PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE McCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS... A LOOK AT THE MAN BEHIND THE MUPPETS. >> BUT HE WANTED TV TO MATTER. HE REALLY WANTED TV TO BE RELEVANT. SO HE LOVED THE FACT THAT SESAME STREET HAD THAT EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT TO IT. THAT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO HIM. >> PLUS THE LINE LOOKS AT THE PUSH TO BUY LOCAL ON SMALL BUSINESS SATURDAY. NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS NOW! >> BIG BIRD, KERMIT, BERT AND ERNIE, THE COOKIE MONSTER, THESE AND MORE MUPPETS WERE GIVEN LIFE BY THE LATE JIM HENSON. FORMER ALBUQUERQEAN BRIAN JAY JONES, AUTHOR OF 'JIM HENSON: THE BIOGRAPHY' GIVES US A BEHIND-THE-SCENE LOOK AT THIS CREATIVE GENIUS. WHILE WE'RE ON THE SUBJECT OF EDUCATIONAL TELEVISION, WE REVISIT AN INTERVIEW WITH INSTRUCTIONAL TV PIONEER DR. GEORGE FISCHBECK. THE FORMER DUKE CITY TEACHER AND RETIRED LOS ANGELES WEATHERMAN STARTED HIS

ON-AIR CAREER RIGHT HERE ON KNME-TV NEW MEXICO PBS AS THE HOST OF A CHILDREN'S SCIENCE PROGRAM. AND, WE ROLL OUT A NEW FEATURE OF ONE-ON-ONE TALKS WITH SPECIAL GUESTS AS WE CHAT WITH TANYA WARD GOODMAN, AUTHOR OF 'LEAVING TINKERTOWN.' BUT FIRST, IT'S OUR LINE OPINION PANEL ON SHOPPING LOCAL, AND WHY IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT TO SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESSES, ESPECIALLY ON THE SATURDAY AFTER THANKSGIVING. HERE'S THE LINE. >> BIG BOX STORES CAN MOST AFFORD THE BEST SALES, AND SHOPPING ONLINE IS AN FIGHTING THE CROWDS, ESPECIALLY DURING THIS HECTIC HOLIDAY SEASON, BUT WHAT IS IT THAT LOCAL BUSINESSES HAVE TO OFFER THAT OTHERS CAN'T? AND WHY DOES SHOPPING LOCALLY KEEP MORE MONEY IN NEW MEXICO? JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND OTHER NEWS OF THE LINE IS ONE OF OUR LINE REGULARS, TOM GARRITY OF THE GARRITY GROUP. AND OUR OTHER LINE REGULAR HERE TODAY IS ROB NIKOLEWSKI OF THE NEW MEXICO WATCHDOG, THEY'RE JOINED BY OUR GUESTS, FORMER STATE SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN, AND WE WELCOME BACK JULIE ANN GRIMM, EDITOR OF THE SANTA FE REPORTER. TOM, YOUR COMPANY, THE GARRITY GROUP, PUBLISHES A

GARRITY PERCEPTION SURVEY. THE RECENTLY PUBLISHED RESULTS SHOW THAT LOCAL RETAILERS WILL DO WELL DURING THE HOLIDAY SEASON, BUT THERE ARE SOME SEVERE CHALLENGES TO GETTING THE IDEA ABOUT WHAT CONSTITUTES LOCAL, AND HOW DOES ONE HELP WHEN ONE SHOPS LOCAL. LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW A DOLLAR WORKS, THOUGH. LET'S GO THERE FIRST. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SPEND >> OBVIOUSLY OUR SURVEY TOOK A LOOK AT BUYING PATTERNS OF NEW MEXICO RESIDENTS, A SCIENTIFIC SURVEY. RESEARCH AND POLLING DID THIS STUFF. AND WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT A NEAR MAJORITY OF FOLKS HAVE A PREFERENCE FOR BUYING LOCAL. SO, YOU KNOW, NEARLY ON A TWO-TO-ONE MARGIN, PEOPLE WILL WANT TO SUPPORT A LOCAL STORE. BUT THE BIG CATCH IS, WHAT CONSTITUTES LOCAL, BECAUSE WE ASKED THEM TO NAME A LOCAL STORE THAT THEY HAD NAMED. 356 RESPONSES LATER, THE TOP 20 INCLUDED 16 NATIONAL FRANCHISE STORES, AND NUMBER ONE BEING WAL-MART AS A LOCAL STORE. >> WOW, 16 OUT OF 20. >> YEAH. >> I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THOUGH, WHAT AN AMAZINGLY HUGE CHALLENGE FOR LOCAL RETAILERS.

>> ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE THEIR BIGGEST COMPETITOR, WHO IS SELLING THINGS AT A VERY LOW RATE, YOU KNOW, AND PROBABLY QUALITY IS SUSPECT, SOME WOULD SAY, ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE SEEN AS A LOCAL OPERATION. LOCAL STORES, THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SPEND TWO TO THREE TIMES MORE, OR MAKE TWO TO THREE TIMES MORE IMPRESSIONS IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED AS A VIABLE OPERATION. >> AND THAT'S WHERE IT GETS CHALLENGING, DEDE, THOSE IMPRESSIONS COST MONEY. YOU HAVE TO ADVERTISE AND THAT KIND OF THING. SO THE SENSE OF UNFAIRNESS IS HUGE HERE WHEN IT COMES TO THIS. HOWEVER, IT IS BUSINESS. THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS FAIR OR UNFAIR. >> EXACTLY. SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER FOR LOCAL RETAILERS HERE, AS WE APPROACH BLACK FRIDAY HERE? >> I THINK THAT THE LOCAL RETAILERS IN ALBUQUERQUE HAVE BANDED TOGETHER. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF MORE LOCALLY ORIENTED CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE. I THINK THE 'KEEP IT QUERQUE' GROUP IS SORT OF BRANDING THAT IDEA OF BUYING LOCAL AND MAKING IT, YOU KNOW, POLITICALLY CORRECT, IF YOU WERE, AND I THINK

THAT THAT'S HAPPENING MORE AND MORE. I THINK THE GREEN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE HAS GOT THE SAME KIND OF IDEA THERE. AND PEOPLE FOLLOW THAT. ALSO, IF THE BUSINESSES CAN GROUP TOGETHER, THEY CAN ADVERTISE TOGETHER, THEY CAN WORK TOGETHER TO MESSAGE WHAT IS LOCAL AND WHAT IS NOT. >> SURE, THE SHOP AND STROLLS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS ALL ADD TO THAT FEELING, ROB, OF SOMETHING'S LOCAL VERSUS A BIG BOX CHAIN. AND I'M CURIOUS HOW POLITICIANS FIT INTO THIS. ONE MIGHT SAY, WHAT? HOW DOES A POLITICIAN FIT INTO THIS? BUT I'M RECALLING GOVERNOR RICHARDSON, HE WOULD MAKE A BIG PUSH EVERY HOLIDAY SEASON TO SHOP LOCAL, AND IT WOULD BE FRUSTRATING BECAUSE IT WOULD END AFTER JANUARY 1ST. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED WHY POLITICIANS DON'T KEEP THAT THEME UP ALL YEAR-ROUND. A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE. FIRST OF ALL, THE ECONOMY GOING TO GO WHENEVER THEY CAN GET THE BEST BARGAIN. ALSO, I THINK THAT GENERALLY SPEAKING, AND I'M A LIBERTARIAN FREE-MARKET GUY,

BUT ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, I'LL GO TO THE LOCAL STORE, IF ALL THINGS ARE BEING EQUAL. BUT THE FACT THAT TOM MENTIONS THAT 16 STORES, YOU KNOW, MAJOR CORPORATION STORES, FINISHED HIGH ON THAT LIST TELLS ME THAT THEY'RE DOING A GOOD JOB OF HAVING A GOOD SHOPPING EXPERIENCE, AND THAT MAYBE THE LOCAL STORES SHOULD TRY MORE, OR AT LEAST TRY TO MAKE THAT LOCAL CONNECTION A LITTLE BIT BETTER. >> I THINK THERE'S AN ASSUMPTION THERE THAT PEOPLE JUST AUTOMATICALLY FEEL, JULIE ANN, THAT BUYING LOCAL YOU'RE GOING TO GET BETTER SERVICE, AND YOU HAVE TO EARN EVERY DOLLAR IN THIS BUSINESS. I MEAN, I GREW UP IN A HOUSEHOLD THAT HAD TO DO THIS, TOO. EVERY CUSTOMER IS CRITICAL, YOU COULDN'T LET ANYBODY GET AWAY. BUT SANTA FE IS INTERESTING TO ME WHEN YOU SHOP THERE. YOU'VE GOT A LOT MORE SMALLER STORES. YOU FEEL THE LOCAL THING. >> YOU GO TO THE CARD SHOP ON MARCY STREET, AND THE HUSBAND AND WIFE THAT OWN THAT SHOP, THEY RECOGNIZE YOU BECAUSE YOU WORK ON THAT STREET. THERE ARE SEVERAL SHOPPING

DISTRICTS IN SANTA FE WHERE IT IS VERY EASY TO PARK YOUR CAR, GET OUT AND NEVER REALLY ENCOUNTER ONE OF THESE BIG RETAILERS THAT SO I THINK WE ARE IN A GREAT ENVIRONMENT UP THERE. JUST A NOTE ABOUT POLITICIANS, I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT SOME OF THE LOCAL POLITICIANS IN SANTA FE REALLY DO LATCH ON TO THIS. THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THEY'VE HAD SOME KIND OF CONTEST WHERE THE MAYOR, LAST YEAR IT WAS REPRESENTATIVE EGOLF, WHERE THEY BOTH GO SHOPPING FOR THE DAY, THEY SORT OF GET FOLLOWED AROUND BY CAMERAS, AND THEY MAKE A BIG SHOW OF LIKE HOW MUCH THEY SPENT LOCALLY. AND I THINK EFFORTS LIKE THAT DO SORT OF REALLY SET AN EXAMPLE. >> I HAVE NOT HEARD OF THAT. I'LL LOOK THAT UP. I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT. TOM, WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT, WHAT'S THE IMPORTANCE OF BUYING LOCAL? >> IT IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE A LOCAL DOLLAR TENDS TO STAY LOCAL, WHEREAS A DOLLAR AT THE FRANCHISE LEVEL GOES TO A FRANCHISE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE ONUS IS REALLY ON SMALL BUSINESSES ON BLACK FRIDAY, SMALL BUSINESS SATURDAY, TO REALLY SAY, HERE'S HOW WE

GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY, TO NOT TAKE THEIR LOCAL AUDIENCE FOR GRANTED AND TO SAY, HERE'S WHAT WE CAN DO FOR YOU BEYOND JUST PROVIDING A QUALITY SERVICE. >> BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT JUST BLACK FRIDAY. THIS IS A POLICY QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, BUYING NEW MEXICO FIRST. WHEN IT'S THE STATE GOVERNMENT, WHEN IT'S OUR LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS, SHOULDN'T THEY BE USING LOCAL FRUITS AND VEGETABLES. EVEN SENIOR CENTERS OR COMMUNITY CENTERS, THEY CAN USE THEIR BUDGET TO ENCOURAGE LOCAL AGRICULTURE. >> I'M SO GLAD YOU SAID THAT. >> IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO. >> I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE ANSWER THAT JULIE ANN WAS GETTING TO, AS WELL. >> AND I THINK PEOPLE WANT THAT, YOU KNOW. WE CERTAINLY HAVE THAT. SANTA FE'S PROCUREMENT CODE HAS ALL OF THESE POINTS BUILT IN FOR LOCAL PREFERENCE. AND WHEN CONTRACTS GO OUT OF STATE, OR WHEN THEY MAKE BULK PURCHASES OUT OF THE CITY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE REACT TO THAT. WELL, WHERE DID THIS COME FROM? IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE. >> GOOD STUFF THERE. NEXT UP, IT'S AN INTERVIEW

WITH THE BIOGRAPHER OF MUPPET CREATOR JIM HENSON. >> HIS ART WAS SUCH A STRONG PART OF HIM THAT EVEN AT THE VERY END, WHEN HE WAS LIVING IN AN ALZHEIMER'S FACILITY, HE WAS HOLDING STRAWS AND THINGS AS IF THEY WERE A PAINTBRUSH, AND HE WAS PAINTING IN THE AIR, AND HIS NEED TO MAKE A MARK WAS SO GIGANTIC. >> THERE HAVE BEEN BOOKS WRITTEN ABOUT JIM HENSON'S WORK AND JIM HENSON'S MUPPET CREATIONS, NOW THERE'S A COMPREHENSIVE BIOGRAPHY ABOUT JIM HENSON HIMSELF. NMiF CORRESPONDENT LARRY AHRENS HAD A CONVERSATION WITH UNM ALUMNUS BRIAN JAY JONES, AUTHOR OF 'JIM HENSON: THE BIOGRAPHY.' HENSON CREATED MUPPETS LONG BEFORE THEY BECAME STARS OF SESAME STREET AND THE MUPPET SHOW, AND JONES GIVES US INSIGHT INTO THE CREATION OF SUCH CHARACTERS AS BIG BIRD, KERMIT AND MISS PIGGY. >> WELL, IT'S A REAL TREAT FOR ME TO WELCOME TO THIS INTERVIEW A GENTLEMAN WHO

WROTE A BIOGRAPHY ABOUT A GUY THAT WE ALL PROBABLY FEEL LIKE WE KNOW. 'JIM HENSON: THE BIOGRAPHY' WRITTEN BY BRIAN JAY JONES WHO IS WITH US TODAY. BRIAN, GREAT TO MEET YOU. >> GREAT TO MEET YOU. I'M SO GLAD TO BE HERE. BIG FAN FROM WAY BACK. >> WE'LL TALK ABOUT YOUR NEW MOMENT. JIM HENSON, A COMPLEX, CREATIVE, ENERGETIC AND ETERNALLY OPTIMISTIC GUY, AND YOU GOT TO DELVE INTO HIS LIFE IN A WAY THAT NOBODY HAS YET. THIS IS THE FIRST BIOGRAPHY ABOUT HIM. >> YES. THERE'S BEEN PLENTY WRITTEN ABOUT HIS WORK. HE DIED 23 YEARS AGO, WHICH IS UNBELIEVABLY HARD MATH TO DO AT THIS POINT. BEEN GONE THAT LONG. BUT THERE'S BEEN PLENTY WRITTEN ABOUT HIS WORK, AND THERE'S BOOKS FOCUSING ON THINGS HE'S WRITTEN, EVEN. THERE'S A BOOK ON DESIGNS AND DOODLES. BUT THERE'S NEVER BEEN A COMPREHENSIVE BIOGRAPHY FOR ADULTS. THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE OF ONES FOR KIDS, BUT THIS IS THE FIRST ONE FOR GROWN-UPS. >> ONCE YOU DIG INTO HIS LIFE, THE THING THAT YOU COME AWAY WITH -- AND OF COURSE WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SESAME STREET, AND HE WAS WORLD FAMOUS FOR HIS

WORK ON SESAME STREET, AND FOR MANY PEOPLE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH. FOR JIM HENSON, HE BECAME FAMOUS OUTSIDE OF SESAME STREET. >> YEAH, AND FOR JIM, SESAME STREET, WHEN IT FIRST STARTED, WAS JUST A JOB FOR HIM. IT SHOWS UP IN HIS PRIVATE NOTES -- HE MENTIONS THE PILOT, AND THEN IT DOESN'T SHOW UP AGAIN FOR THREE OR FOUR YEARS, BECAUSE IT WAS JUST ONE OF THE THOUSANDS OF THINGS HE WAS DOING, ONE OF THE MANY BALLS IN THE AIR. HE COULD HAVE BEEN FAMOUS FOR ONLY THE MUPPET SHOW, HAD HE WANTED TO, AS WELL, BUT DECIDED AFTER FIVE YEARS THAT WAS ENOUGH OF THAT, WENT ON TO MAKE MOVIES. SO AT EVERY POINT IN HIS LIFE, HE'S READY TO GO ON TO THE NEXT THING. >> WELL, THIS IS PBS, LET'S START WITH SESAME STREET. HIS DEVOTION TO THAT SHOW WAS UNPARALLELED. >> YEAH, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL TO HIM THAT TV MATTERED. HE WAS A BIG FAN OF TV FROM EARLY ON. THAT WAS WHAT HE WANTED TO DO WITH HIS LIFE, WAS GET INTO TV NO MATTER WHAT. IT HAPPENED TO BE THAT HE GOT IN THROUGH BEING A PUPPETEER. BUT HE WANTED TV TO MATTER. HE REALLY WANTED TV TO BE RELEVANT. SO HE LOVED THE FACT THAT SESAME STREET HAD THAT EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT TO IT. THAT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO HIM.

>> I FULLY GIVE CREDIT TO SESAME STREET FOR TEACHING MY CHILDREN HOW TO READ AND DO THE ALPHABET WHEN THEY WERE SMALL. I REMEMBER, WE ALL REMEMBER SITTING KIDS AND OURSELVES IN FRONT OF THE TV SET TO LEARN AND WATCH AND BE ENTERTAINED. >> YEAH, AND JIM TALKED ABOUT HOW -- HE DID ERNIE AND FRANK OZ DID BERT, AND THEY BOTH TALKED ABOUT HOW A LOT OF TIMES THE MATERIAL THEY WERE GIVEN TO BE EDUCATIONAL WAS KIND OF DRY. SO THEY KNEW WHAT THE EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT WAS THEY HAD TO HIT, THEY HAD TO TALK ABOUT SHARING, OR WHERE THE NOSE WENT ON THE FACE. AND SO HE SAID THEY WOULD JUST TALK AROUND THE REST OF IT AND THEY WOULD KIND OF AD LIB A LOT OF IT. SO SOMEHOW SNEEZING YOUR NOSE OFF INTO A HANDKERCHIEF BECAME EDUCATIONAL IN THE HANDS OF JIM HENSON AND FRANK OZ DOING ERNIE AND BERT. >> WHEN DID SESAME STREET ACTUALLY START? >> SESAME STREET PREMIERED IN NOVEMBER OF 1969. SO IT'S BEEN -- I CAN'T EVEN DO THE MATH -- 45 YEARS NOW. >> I WOULD HAVE NEVER GUESSED IT WAS AROUND THAT LONG. I REMEMBER IT FROM THE '70s, AND IT SEEMED LIKE THE SHOW GOT BETTER AS IT WENT ALONG. LIKE ALL GOOD SHOWS, IT STARTS TO GEL AND THE CHARACTERS REALLY COME TO LIFE. >> YEAH, I MEAN, ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT JIM AS A

CREATOR AND AS A CO-WORKER, EVEN, IS JIM ALWAYS LIKED TO GIVE THE PERFORMERS THE ROOM THEY NEEDED TO FIND THEIR CHARACTERS, AND EVEN WITH SOMETHING LIKE ERNIE AND BERT, YOU SEE THE EARLY PICTURES AFTER JIM HAD BUILT ERNIE AND BERT, AND HE KNEW THAT HE WANTED SOMEBODY THAT WAS ALL HORIZONTAL, AND SOMEBODY THAT WAS ALL VERTICAL. THAT WAS VERY FUNNY TO HIM. BUT YOU SEE THE FIRST PICTURES, HE AND FRANK OZ ARE IN FRONT OF A MIRROR, AND JIM'S GOT ON BERT, AND JIM ENDED UP DOING ERNIE. BUT FRANK OZ HAD ON BERT, AND THEY PLAYED AROUND WITH THEM IN FRONT OF A MIRROR. IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT FIT. AND PEOPLE SAID LATER IT MADE PERFECT SENSE FOR JIM TO BE DOING ERNIE AND FRANK TO BE DOING BERT BECAUSE FRANK WAS BERT. HE WAS THIS VERY BUTTONED UP, SORT OF UPTIGHT GUY, AND JIM WAS VERY LAID BACK AND KNEW HOW TO POKE AT FRANK OZ AND PUSH HIS BUTTONS, WHICH IS WHAT ERNIE DOES TO BERT. SOMEBODY SAID IT WAS THE PERFECT MARRIAGE IN THE PERFECT SENSE OF THE WORD. >> I'VE GOT TO MENTION THAT YOU ARE FROM ALBUQUERQUE. >> YEAH, I GREW UP HERE. I WENT TO EL DORADO HIGH SCHOOL AND THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO. >> YOU'RE A LOBO. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> AND YOU WROTE THE DAILY LOBO, TOO. >> I DID. I WAS PRIMARILY THE NIGHT EDITOR, WHICH WAS MORE THE LAYOUT FUNCTION. THIS WAS BACK IN THE DAYS OF BEARSKINS AND BUCK KNIVES,

WHEN WE HAD TO ACTUALLY PRINT IT OUT IN THE BACK ROOM AND THEN DEVELOP IT, AND THEN CUT IT OUT WITH X-ACTO KNIVES, AND WAX IT DOWN TO THE SURFACE. ALL THAT STUFF YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO ON A COMPUTER NOW, WE HAD TO DO BY HAND. >> YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A BIOGRAPHER, BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. THAT'S WHAT YOU DO AS A WRITER. >> RIGHT. >> THAT'S YOUR SPECIALTY. I LOVED BIOGRAPHIES WHEN I WAS A KID GROWING UP, BECAUSE YOU LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT THEM. WERE YOU THE SAME WAY? >> YEAH, AND ONE GREAT THING ABOUT BIOGRAPHY IS IT'S THE ONLY SECTION OF THE LIBRARY THAT'S ORGANIZED ALPHABETICALLY. SO WHEN YOU WERE A KID, IT RUN PAST ALL THE NUMBERS AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO LOOK STUFF UP IN THE CARD CATALOG, YOU'D JUST GO TO THE WALL WHERE ALL THE BIOGRAPHIES WERE AND JUST START READING THE NAMES IN LOVED GOING THROUGH THAT. I REMEMBER I ALWAYS WANTED TO READ ABOUT JOHNNY BENCH WHEN I WAS A KID. I LOVED READING ABOUT BASEBALL, AND I WOULD ALWAYS GO STRAIGHT TO THAT WALL. >> SO JIM HENSON, SESAME STREET OBVIOUSLY HUGE, BUT HIS CREATIVE DRIVE KEPT HIM ENGAGED IN THAT PROJECT, BUT HE WENT ON BEYOND THAT. AND LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. >> YES, AT THE TIME OF SESAME STREET IN 1969, JIM

WAS ALSO STILL AT THAT POINT TRYING TO SORT OF BREAK OUT OF BEING JUST A PUPPETEER, AND ESPECIALLY HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE JUST KNOWN AS A CHILDREN'S PUPPETEER. BUT HE KNEW THAT THE MUPPETS COULD WORK ON TV, AND HE HAD DONE ENOUGH VARIETY SHOWS THROUGHOUT THE '60s -- HE WAS ON JACK PARR, AND STEVE ALLEN, AND ED SULLIVAN, AND DID SORT OF ALL THE BIG SHOWS IN THE '60s, AND HE REALLY KNEW THE MUPPETS COULD HOLD THEIR OWN FOR HALF AN HOUR. HE WAS CONVINCED THIS COULD WORK. SO IN THE EARLY '70s, HE ACTUALLY GOT THE ATTENTION OF MICHAEL EISNER, WHO WAS AT ABC AT THE TIME, WHO GREEN LIT THE MUPPET SHOW PILOT. AND SO JIM CREATED HIS FIRST MUPPET SHOW PILOT IN 1974, I THINK, AND IT DOESN'T REALLY CATCH HOLD. IT'S CALLED THE MUPPET VALENTINE SPECIAL. KERMIT'S NOT THE HOST OF IT. IT'S SET IN SORT OF A WEIRD CONSERVATORY, YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHERE THIS IS OCCURRING. MIA FARROW WAS THE GUEST STAR. IT DOESN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING. PEOPLE THINK IT'S NICE, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING. SO HE DOES ANOTHER ONE A YEAR LATER CALLED 'THE MUPPET SHOW SEX AND VIOLENCE.' HE LOVED THAT JOKE, BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ANTITHESIS OF BEING A KIDS ENTERTAINER. KERMIT IS NOT AT THE CENTER OF THAT ONE, EITHER. IT'S HOSTED BY A GUY NAMED

WALLY IN A CONTROL ROOM OF A TV STUDIO, IT LOOKS LIKE, AND THAT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING EITHER. BUT JIM KNOWS THIS IS GOING TO WORK. HE ENDS UP DOING THIS VERY CRAZY PITCH REEL FOR EXECUTIVES AT CBS, CALLING EXECUTIVES OUT BY NAME, WHICH IS HILARIOUS. THE EXECUTIVES WATCHED AND SAID, THIS THING IS THE GREATEST TAPE I'VE EVER SEEN; IT STILL DIDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR HIM. IT WASN'T FINALLY UNTIL LORD GRADE OVER IN LONDON SAID, I WILL GIVE YOU THE RESOURCES YOU NEED TO DO THIS, YOU JUST HAVE TO DO IT AT MY STUDIO IN LONDON. AND JIM PICKED UP AND LEFT AND WENT TO LONDON, AND DID THE MUPPET SHOW IN LONDON FOR FIVE YEARS. BUT THAT'S A REAL STUDY OF STICKTOITIVENESS. HE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO WORK. >> THAT TOOK, WHAT, ABOUT TEN YEARS? >> ABOUT TEN YEARS, AND IT'S IN HIS NOTEBOOKS, EVEN. THERE'S PROPOSALS FOR IT IN THE LATE '60s. >> WE CHATTED BEFORE THE SHOW TODAY, AND YOU SAID JIM WAS A GUY THAT WAS ALWAYS PITCHING THE NEXT IDEA. HE WAS JUST A FOUNTAIN OF IDEAS. >> YEAH, YOU LOOK AT HIM IN THE '60s, ESPECIALLY BEFORE THE END OF THAT SENTENCE THERE IN THE '60s, SESAME STREET. WE ALL KNOW THAT'S SORT OF COMING ON. JIM DOESN'T KNOW THAT. SO IN THE '60s, HE'S PITCHING CONSTANTLY. YOU KNOW, INTERESTING IDEAS THAT NEVER GET OFF THE PAGE. HE HAD SOMETHING CALLED

JOHNNY CARSON AND THE MUPPET MACHINE WHERE HE WAS PROPOSING TO PUT JOHNNY CARSON IN THIS MUPPET WORLD AND HE'D BE KIND OF SPIT OUT AT THE END OF IT. IT NEVER GOT FURTHER THAN THE PROPOSAL, ALTHOUGH HE ILLUSTRATED IT. HE DID HIPPIE DOCUMENTARIES. HE DID SOMETHING CALLED 'YOUTH 68.'. IT WAS A DOCUMENTARY OF THE HIPPIE GENERATION. HE DID SOMETHING CALLED 'THE CUBE.' IT'S LIKE AN AVANT GARDE TWILIGHT ZONE EPISODE. HE WANTED TO OPEN A NIGHTCLUB AND TALKED ABOUT HAVING AN INFLATABLE BUILDING THAT HE'D PUT INTO A VACANT LOT IN NEW YORK, AND WOMEN WOULD BE LOWERED DOWN FROM THE CEILING AND THEY WOULD PROJECT MOVIES ON THEM AND -- YOU KNOW, JUST CREATIVELY RESTLESS. THOUSANDS OF IDEAS, A LOT WHICH NEVER GOT FURTHER THAN THE PAGE. >> DID HE EMPOWER HIS PEOPLE THAT WORKED FOR HIM AND WITH HIM TO HONOR THAT CREATIVITY? DID THEY HAVE CARTE BLANCHE TO GO OUT AND KIND OF CREATE WHAT THEY WANTED TO? >> YEAH, JIM WAS SORT OF THE ULTIMATE COLLABORATOR IN THAT SENSE, REALLY GAVE PEOPLE THE ROOM TO FIND THEIR CHARACTERS. IT TOOK SOMEBODY LIKE DAVE GOELZ, WHO WAS A PUPPET DESIGNER, WHO WANTED TO BE A PERFORMER BUT HAD A HARD TIME FINDING HIS CHARACTERS. HE GAVE HIM GONZO ON THE MUPPET SHOW, AND REALLY GAVE HIM THE TIME TO FIND THAT

CHARACTER AND NOT BE SUCH A SHY PERFORMER, AND MAKE IT BIG AND REACT BIG. DAVE GOELZ WOULD ALWAYS TALK ABOUT HOW WHEN HE STARTED TO PERFORM, ALL THE TECHNICIANS IN THE TV STUDIO WOULD PUT UP THE NEWSPAPERS, BECAUSE THEY SAID NOTHING EXCITING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. HE SAID THE FIRST TIME HE YELLED OUT THE WORLD 'NO' AND MADE IT BIG, ALL THE NEWSPAPERS CAME DOWN. HE SAID FINALLY HE FOUND THAT CHARACTER. BUT JIM HAD GIVEN HIM THE LEEWAY TO DO THAT. SOMETHING LIKE MISS PIGGY, THAT WAS SORT OF A BACK-ROW CHARACTER FOR A LONG TIME. SHE WAS PASSED BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN TWO PUPPETEERS FOR A WHILE. FRANK OZ HAD HER FINALLY ONE DAY AND THERE WAS A STAGE DIRECTION THAT CALLED FOR MISS PIGGY TO SLAP KERMIT THE FROG, AND FRANK OZ DECIDED THAT WAS GOING TO BE A KARATE CHOP INSTEAD. AND SO HE HAD MISS PIGGY GIVE KERMIT A KARATE CHOP, AND THE HEAD WRITER JERRY JUHL SAID, THE PLACE WENT CRAZY, YOU KNEW THAT WAS IT. YOU KNEW THEY HAD FOUND THAT CHARACTER. AND BONNIE ERICKSON, WHO BUILT THAT PUPPET, LATER DESCRIBED HER AS A TRUCK DRIVER WHO THINKS SHE'S A FASHION MODEL. >> GREAT ANALOGY. I CAN'T REMEMBER, BECAUSE THE MUPPETS, THERE ARE SO MANY CHARACTERS, DID MUPPET CHARACTERS FROM SESAME STREET MIGRATE TO THE MUPPET SHOW AND BACK?

>> NOT USUALLY. >> DID THEY KEEP THEM SEPARATE? >> YEAH, IN THE FIRST SEASON OF THE MUPPET SHOW, JIM PUT ERNIE AND BERT ON AS GUEST STARS I THINK IN THE SECOND OR THIRD EPISODE, AND I THINK PARTLY THAT WAS TO HELP ORIENT PEOPLE, BECAUSE THE MUPPET SHOW WHEN IT FIRST CAME ON -- AND I REMEMBER WATCHING IT WHEN I WAS NINE -- NONE OF THE MUPPETS WERE FAMILIAR TO US. WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT MISS PIGGY OR FOZZIE BEAR OR GONZO. I THINK PARTLY HE PUT ERNIE AND BERT ON THERE SO IF YOU WERE TUNING IN, YOU WENT, OKAY, THIS IS FAMILIAR. AT LEAST, AS I SAID AT ONE POINT IN THE BOOK, YOU KNEW YOU WERE LOOKING IN THE WINDOWS OF THE RIGHT HOUSE AT THAT POINT, BECAUSE THERE WERE ERNIE AND BERT. BUT HE SORT OF TRIED TO KEEP THEM SEPARATE. KERMIT WAS REALLY THE ONLY CROSS-OVER CHARACTER. >> IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT IT, THOUGH, KERMIT IS JIM, AND JIM IS KERMIT, IN A CRAZY WAY, BECAUSE KERMIT IS THE ONLY NORMAL GUY AROUND, AND ALL THE CRAZINESS SWIRLS AROUND HIM. >> ALTHOUGH AS KERMIT SAYS AT ONE POINT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? I'M THE ONE THAT HIRED ALL THESE GUYS. >> THAT'S A FUNNY LINE. >> JIM WAS LIKE KERMIT, HE OF THE STORM. >> RIGHT, HE HAD ALL THIS CRAZINESS HAPPENING AROUND HIM.

HE HAD A CREATIVE FERVOR, AND HE WAS THE GUY THAT JUST SORTED IT ALL OUT. >> NOTHING ON THE MUPPET SHOW WORKS WITHOUT KERMIT THERE. KERMIT IS THE STRAIGHT MAN, HE'S THE STAGE MANAGER, HE'S THE ORGANIZER, AND THAT'S JIM. IT'S CRAZY AROUND HIM, HE'S GOT TO STAY CALM, BECAUSE IF HE DOESN'T, NO ONE IS GOING TO RUN THE SHOW. AND THAT WAS JIM. >> BESIDES KERMIT, BIG BIRD IS THE OTHER ICONIC CHARACTER. DO WE KNOW ANY STORY BEHIND THAT CHARACTER AND HOW THAT CAME TO BE? >> YEAH. WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED DOING THE EARLY TEST SHOWS FOR SESAME STREET, A LOT OF THE ACADEMICS HAD TOLD THEM, YOU CAN'T HAVE MUPPET CHARACTERS -- YOU CAN'T HAVE PUPPETS ON THE STREET. THE STREET HAS TO BE REAL PEOPLE, AND THEN THE MUPPETS HAVE TO BE IN THEIR OWN SEGMENT ISOLATED FROM EVERYBODY ELSE. YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT CROSS-OVER, THEY WERE TOLD, BECAUSE THAT'S CONFUSING REALITY WITH FANTASY. WELL, WHAT THEY FOUND OUT IS WHEN THEY RAN THOSE TEST SHOWS, AS SOON AS THEY WENT AWAY FROM THE MUPPETS, THE KIDS' ATTENTION SPANS WENT DOWN. SO THEY SAID, WELL, THE WAY YOU FIX THIS IS YOU'VE GOT TO PUT MUPPETS ON THE STREET. SO JIM SAID, WELL, BIG BIRD WILL BE THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE KID, AND SO BIG BIRD IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FOUR-YEAR-OLD. HE'S THE CHILD'S POINT OF

VIEW. SO HE PUT BIG BIRD ON THE STREET. THE OTHER CHARACTER WAS OSCAR THE GROUCH. HE PUT HIM ON THE STREET, AS WELL, AND OSCAR IN THAT FIRST SEASON IS SORT OF THIS GRUNGY METALLIC ORANGE. HE DOESN'T LOOK A LOT LIKE OSCAR, ALTHOUGH THE PERSONALITY IS THERE. BUT THOSE MUPPETS WERE PUT ON THE STREET TO SORT OF KEEP THE KIDS' ATTENTION SPAN UP. BUT BIG BIRD, IN THE EARLY SEASON, HIS EYES ARE A LITTLE DOPEY, HE HAS LESS PLUMAGE ON HIS HEAD. AGAIN, IT WAS ANOTHER TIME JIM GAVE PEOPLE THE TIME TO SORT OF FIND THE CHARACTER. CAROLL SPINNEY, THE PERFORMER WHO STILL DOES IT TO THIS DAY, SORT OF DECIDED HE WASN'T A COUNTRY BUMPKIN, HE WAS A FOUR YEAR OLD. HE WAS GOING TO HAVE THAT FOUR YEAR OLD'S INTEREST IN THE WORLD, AND THAT'S WHEN HE FOUND THAT CHARACTER. >> TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT JIM HENSON'S CONNECTION TO NEW MEXICO. >> YEAH, THIS WAS ALL NEWS TO ME. JIM'S PARENTS, WHEN HIS FATHER WAS AN AGRONOMIST WITH THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, RETIRED HERE IN THE EARLY '70s, AND THEY LIVED OUT HERE FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS BEFORE THEY ENDED UP MOVING TO NORTH CAROLINA. AND JIM WAS IN THE CITY A LOT VISITING THEM, WHICH I DIDN'T KNOW. IT TURNS OUT HE LIVED ON DONA ROWENA UP IN THE NORTHEAST HEIGHTS, ABOUT A HALF A MILE FROM WHERE I GREW UP, AND PLAYED LITTLE

LEAGUE BASEBALL AT ROADRUNNER LITTLE LEAGUE. SO THAT WAS ALL NEWS TO ME. AND IT WAS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS -- I HAD A DIGITAL TAPE OF JIM INTERVIEWING HIS PARENTS, AND AT THE END OF THAT TAPE IT'S ONE OF THOSE SORT OF SPOOKY MOMENTS FOR A BIOGRAPHER, HE WOULD ALWAYS SAY WHERE HE WAS, AND HE SAID, WE'RE HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND WE'RE ON DONA ROWENA, AND I WENT, WHOA, WHAT! I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THAT IS. I HAD NO IDEA. AND AT ONE POINT, LISA HENSON, WHO IS 12, SAID TO HIM, WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT? WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT ON THE TAPE? AND JIM SAYS, AND THIS THE MOMENT THAT GIVES YOU ONE OF THOSE WONDERFUL CHILLS AS A BIOGRAPHER, HE SAYS, WELL, SOMEDAY SOMEONE MAY CARE THAT WE WERE HERE AND WANT TO KNOW WHAT WE WERE DOING, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DOING. >> VERY PROFOUND. >> IT WAS A GREAT MOMENT. BUT JIM KNEW, YOU KNOW, THAT THINGS MATTERED, AND HE WOULD SAVE THOSE THINGS. >> JIM HENSON, AS YOU POINT OUT IN THE BOOK, WAS A MAN OF CRAZY OPTIMISM. I MEAN, IT WAS LIMITLESS. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? YOU TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT HIS BROTHER DIED AT A VERY YOUNG AGE, AND THAT HAD AN IMPACT IN WHAT WAY?

>> YEAH, HIS BROTHER WAS IN THE NAVY, AND WAS IN A CAR ACCIDENT WHEN HE WAS IN HIS EARLY 20s AND DIED. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID THAT THEY THOUGHT THAT SORT OF PUT ROCKET FUEL IN JIM'S BLOOD. HIS DAUGHTER LISA SAID THAT. FRANK OZ SAID THAT HE THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, IN JIM'S HEAD HE THOUGHT, WELL NOW I HAVE TO LIVE FOR BOTH OF US, MYSELF AND MY BROTHER. AND THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS -- IT MADE HIM REALIZE THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS HE STILL WANTED TO DO AND THERE MAY NOT ALWAYS BE ENOUGH TIME. IT WASN'T ONE OF THOSE SORT OF PROPHECIES FOR HIM, I DON'T THINK, BUT I THINK JIM DID HAVE AN APPRECIATION THAT TIME MATTERS. YOU CAN'T WASTE TIME. AND I THINK IT'S INTERESTING, ONE OF THE FIRST FILMS HE MADE WAS CALLED 'TIMEPIECE' ABOUT A MAN SORT OF RACING AGAINST THE CLOCK. THIS MOVIE HAS GOT A CLOCK TICKING THROUGHOUT IT CONSTANTLY, AND A MAN RUNNING THROUGH CEMETERIES, AND JUMPING OFF DIVING BOARDS, AND TRYING TO GET EVERYTHING INTO A DAY THAT YOU WOULD DO. AND ANOTHER ONE OF THE FIRST SONGS THAT HE RECORDED THAT HE WROTE HIMSELF WAS CALLED "TICK TOCK SICK' ALL ABOUT DON'T LET THE CLOCK DEFINE THE LIMITS OF YOUR LIFE. A FASCINATION WITH TIME VERY EARLY ON. >> BUT I LOVE THE OPTIMISTIC PART OF HIM, THAT SIDE OF

HIM. HE WAS ALWAYS HOPEFUL THAT THE NEXT THING WOULD HAPPEN, AND A LOT OF IT DID FOR HIM. >> YEAH, AND HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO MAKE IT. A DRIVER ONCE SAID, DID YOU EVER DREAM IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS THAT YOU WOULD BE FAMOUS? AND HE SAID, WELL, YEAH, I JUST DIDN'T THINK IT WAS GOING TO TAKE THIS LONG. HE ACTUALLY WAS SUCCESSFUL STARTING AT AGE 17. HE WAS ON TV AT 17 ALREADY, HAD HIS OWN SHOW BY 18. SO HE WAS ALREADY SUCCESSFUL. BUT HE REALLY SORT OF HAD THIS FEELING THAT HE WAS GOING TO MAKE IT, BUT AGAIN, HIS WORK REALLY HAD TO MATTER TO HIM. JIM REALLY DID WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. HE ONCE SAID, I HOPE THAT THE WORLD IS BETTER FOR MY HAVING BEEN HERE, AND THAT REALLY MATTERED TO HIM. TV HAD TO MATTER, PROJECTS HAD TO MATTER. >> I DON'T WANT TO GIVE AWAY THE ENDING, BUT THE LAST CHAPTER IS ESPECIALLY MEANINGFUL TO THOSE OF US IN NEW MEXICO, AND IT'S A MUST READ. IT REALLY IS A TENDER, TENDER ENDING TO A BEAUTIFUL BOOK. AND IT'S WONDERFUL TO MEET YOU AND TO GET TO TALK ABOUT THIS MAN THAT I FEEL IS STILL ALIVE TODAY. AND I

THINK YOU FEEL THAT, TOO. >> AND STILL MISS HIM TODAY. THOSE THINGS. WHEN I SAID TO FRANK OZ, IT'S BEEN 23 YEARS, HE SAID, WOW, REALLY. YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL FRESH, I THINK, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. >> IT'S 'JIM HENSON: THE BIOGRAPHY.' AND BRIAN JAY JONES FROM ALBUQUERQUE WROTE IT, AND IT'S GREAT TO MEET YOU AND CHAT ABOUT THIS. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. IT'S BEEN GREAT. >> IT WAS A VERY TRAUMATIC DAY FOR SO MANY PEOPLE, BUT IT WAS A UNITING DAY. PEOPLE WERE TOGETHER IN THEIR GRIEF, WHICH IS I THINK A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN IT'S BEEN EVER SINCE. >> THE LATE ROSS WARD WAS AN ARTIST WHO CREATED A MOST UNUSUAL NEW MEXICO TOURIST ATTRACTION, THE TINKERTOWN MUSEUM. LOCATED ON NEW MEXICO'S TURQUOISE TRAIL, IT'S A FOLK

ART ENVIRONMENT BUILT OF RECYCLED MATERIALS AND WACKY WESTERN MEMORABILIA. AT THE AGE OF 57, ROSS WARD WAS DIAGNOSED WITH EARLY ONSET ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE, AND PASSED AWAY LESS THAN FIVE YEARS LATER. IN OUR NEW ONE-ON-ONE FEATURE, InFOCUS PRODUCER MEGAN KAMERICK SITS DOWN WITH HIS DAUGHTER, TANYA WARD GOODMAN, AUTHOR OF 'LEAVING TINKERTOWN,' A ATTRIBUTE TO HER FATHER, AND A JOURNEY THROUGH HIS DIAGNOSIS AND SUBSEQUENT DEATH. EVER BEEN TO TINKERTOWN KNOWS THAT YOUR FATHER LIVED OUT HIS CREATIVE VISION WITH A FIERCE INDEPENDENCE MOST OF US SACRIFICE IN OUR LIVES. THAT MADE YOUR CHILDHOOD VERY UNCONVENTIONAL, WHICH WAS GREAT IN MANY WAYS, AND ALSO HAD SOME DRAWBACKS. WAS THIS MEMOIR A WAY TO FIGURE OUT YOUR HISTORY AS WELL AS YOUR FATHER'S? >> YEAH, I THINK IT REALLY WAS. WHAT I CAN DO. AND IT'S FUNNY THAT I REALIZED I WAS A WRITER AND I WANTED TO SORT OF TAKE MY OWN ARTISTIC, YOU KNOW, THIS IS MY PLACE IN THE WORLD.

BUT THE FIRST THING THAT REALLY HIT WAS ME WRITING ABOUT MY DAD. AND THAT WAS ALWAYS, IT'S A FUNNY -- I'M SORT OF TREADING A FUNNY LINE THERE NOW, TRYING TO BE LIKE, OH, HERE I AM, TANYA WARD GOODMAN, THE WRITER ABOUT TINKERTOWN, BECAUSE I THINK I WAS ALWAYS -- THAT WAS THE THING I FELL BACK ON TO MAKE ME INTERESTING, WAS MY DAD. BUT AT A CERTAIN POINT, I THOUGHT, THERE'S MORE TO ME, BUT HERE I AM LIKE KIND OF COMING INTO THE WORLD AS A WRITER WRITING ABOUT MY DAD. >> YOU HAVE SOME WONDERFUL ANECDOTES ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD. HOW DO YOU REMEMBER THINGS LIKE THAT WITH SUCH CLARITY? I ALWAYS WONDER ABOUT THAT IN MEMOIRS. WAS IT THE EMOTIONAL IMPACT? >> I THINK THE CHILDHOOD ANECDOTES WERE REALLY JUST THE EMOTIONAL IMPACT, AND I THINK MY -- I GREW UP IN THE MOUNTAINS. THERE WERE ALMOST NO OTHER FRIENDS THAT I HAD. I MEAN, ANY KID FRIENDS I HAD LIVED FAR AWAY, WE HAD TO DRIVE TO THEIR HOUSE. AND SO I WAS JUST SPENDING MOST OF THE TIME WITH MY DAD, AND HE WAS MY BEST FRIEND.

AND SO ALL MY CHILDHOOD MEMORIES REALLY, THE SUPER CEMENTED ONES, ARE ABOUT MY DAD. >> I LOVE THE ONE WHEN YOU'RE IN SOMEPLACE, I MEAN, HE TOOK YOU -- HE LOVED GOING ON THE ROAD. HE WAS AN OLD CARNIVAL GUY. AND YOU'RE IN A RESTAURANT SOMEWHERE AND A WAITRESS SAYS, HOYT ATKINS IS HERE, A COUNTRY SINGER, AND YOUR DAD SAID, WELL, YOU TELL HOYT ATKINS THAT MS. TANYA WARD IS HERE. THAT'S WONDERFUL. >> IT WAS GREAT. I ALWAYS FELT LIKE I WAS IN A PARADE WITH HIM. ALL HIS CARS WERE PAINTED UP AND DECORATED. HE WAS ALWAYS MR. FLASH. SO I FELT LIKE I WAS A LITTLE CELEBRITY, EVEN IF I WAS JUST KICKING AROUND IN SHORTS AND PAINT-SPATTERED LEGS. >> WAS HIS DIAGNOSIS OF ALZHEIMER'S PART OF YOUR IMPETUS TO START DOCUMENTING HIS LIFE, WHEN HE COULD STILL REMEMBER THINGS? >> YEAH, I THINK IT WAS, AND I STARTED THINKING, HOW DO I PIN THIS DOWN? BECAUSE ALL THOSE STORIES WE REALLY TAKE FOR GRANTED, YOU HEAR THEM AND GO, OH, YEAH, YEAH, I LOVE THAT STORY.

OH, BLAH, CAN YOU STOP? I WANT TO GO DO SOMETHING ELSE. BUT WHEN HE WAS DIAGNOSED, I ACTUALLY GOT A VIDEO CAMERA, AND I THOUGHT, OH, I'LL BE A DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER, AND I REALIZED VERY QUICKLY THAT I WAS NOT A FILMMAKER. I WOULD FORGET TO TURN THE BATTERY ON, I WOULD LOSE THE MICROPHONE. I'M NOT A FILM PERSON. BUT I REALLY AM A WRITER, SO I JUST STARTED ASKING HIM AS MANY THINGS AS I COULD, AND WRITING THEM DOWN, AND REALLY TRYING TO REMEMBER EVERYTHING THAT I HAD AND WRITE IT DOWN, BECAUSE I KNEW IT WOULD GO AWAY. AND I REALLY WANTED TO HAVE THAT FOR MY KIDS, THAT I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THEN, BUT FOR MYSELF, TOO, AND MY FAMILY. >> THERE'S A PART WHEN YOU'RE TALKING TO ROSS, YOUR DAD, ON THE PHONE. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE FOLLOWING THE PROGRESSION OF THE DISEASE. HIS MIND WANDERS. HE DRIFTS OFF THE PHONE AND YOU'RE THERE IN LOS ANGELES, AND YOU HEAR HIM POUNDING WITH BOTTLE CAPS ON SOMETHING IN THE MUSEUM, AND YOU REALIZE, HE'S DOING WHAT HE LOVES TO DO. AND YOU HOPE THAT EVENTUALLY YOU CAN DO THAT. >> YES. >> HOW DID WITNESSING HIM

SORT OF REDUCE TO THOSE CORE ELEMENTS OF HIS EXISTENCE IMPACT YOU ON YOUR OWN JOURNEY? >> I THINK IT MADE ME SEE -- STRONG PART OF HIM THAT EVEN AT THE VERY END WHEN HE WAS LIVING IN AN ALZHEIMER'S FACILITY, HE WAS HOLDING STRAWS AND THINGS AS IF THEY WERE A PAINTBRUSH, AND HE WAS PAINTING IN THE AIR. HIS NEED TO MAKE A MARK WAS SO GIGANTIC, AND THE SORT OF IDEA THAT HE WOULD JUST CONSTANTLY MAKE ART, NO MATTER WHAT IT WAS, IT WAS, WOW, LIKE HOW DO I FIND THAT IN MYSELF. AND I HAD TO KIND OF TAKE MYSELF OUT OF TINKERTOWN AND OUT OF HIS VISION TO KIND OF FIND MY OWN. AND THIS STORY, EVEN THOUGH IT IS ABOUT HIM, IT'S MY EXPERIENCE THERE AND WHAT IT FELT LIKE FOR ME, AND TO DO THAT AND TO SORT OF SEPARATE, I THINK IT WAS A WAY OF SEPARATING MYSELF A LITTLE BIT. BUT NOW I FEEL EDGY IF I DON'T WRITE, AND I GET IT. I DON'T THINK I GOT IT AS

MUCH AS HE DID. I DON'T THINK I'M -- AND THAT'S, IN A WAY, GOOD BECAUSE I CAN FUNCTION AND TAKE THE KIDS PLACES AND GET PEOPLE SIGNED UP FOR SOCCER AND WHATEVER. BUT I HAVE THAT NEED TO CREATE AND TO MAKE SOMETHING, AND I FEEL A LITTLE TWITCHY IF I DON'T. >> IT'S CALLED 'LEAVING TINKERTOWN,' AND YOU INITIALLY COME BACK FROM LOS ANGELES TO TAKE CARE OF HIM WHEN HE FIRST GETS THE DIAGNOSIS, ALONG WITH YOUR STEPMOTHER AND OTHERS, BUT EVENTUALLY YOU REALIZE YOU HAVE TO LEAVE AND PICK UP YOUR OWN LIFE. YOU DO COME BACK A LOT. >> I DO. >> BUT WHAT WAS IT LIKE COMING TO TERMS WITH THAT DECISION? IT'S REALLY TOUGH FOR A CAREGIVER. >> IT WAS AMAZINGLY HARD. I THINK I CAME HOME REALLY BECAUSE IT WAS THE ONLY THING I COULD THINK TO DO. THE DIAGNOSIS WAS SO GIGANTIC, IT JUST SHOOK MY LIFE APART AND I COULDN'T THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE UP UNTIL THAT POINT I'D HAD BOYFRIENDS AND PEOPLE AND WHATEVER, BUT I HADN'T HAD ANYTHING THAT WAS AS STEADY AND AS CERTAIN AS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY DAD. AND HOLY SMOKES, I HAVE TO

GO HOME. AND MY STEPMOTHER REALLY NEEDED HELP. I MEAN, SHE REALLY WAS DOING THE BULK OF THE CARETAKING AND THE BUILDING. >> BUILDING THE MUSEUM. >> GOD, SHE REALLY WAS TAKING CARE OF SO MANY THINGS. AND I THINK WHEN I CAME HOME, I DIDN'T TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT, AND IT WAS SURPRISING TO ME TO JUST KIND OF POP INTO THIS WORLD THAT SHE HAD REALLY BUILT. AND AT A CERTAIN POINT, I THINK IT WAS PARTIALLY THEIR COMMITMENT TO EACH OTHER AND THE WAY THAT THEIR RELATIONSHIP -- I SAW THEIR RELATIONSHIP AS SUCH A PARTNERSHIP, AND THE WAY THAT IT WORKED, AND I REALIZED, I AM THE DAUGHTER, MY DAD AND I HAVE THIS VERY SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE. YOU MAKE A NEW FAMILY OUTSIDE YOUR FAMILY. LIKE AT A CERTAIN POINT, YOU HAVE TO MOVE YOUR CAMPFIRE OUTSIDE THE CIRCLE AND START YOUR OWN. AND I FOUND THIS PERSON WHO REALLY PROVED TO BE A GREAT PARTNER AND A REALLY, OH, MY GOSH, LIKE I WANT TO BUILD SOMETHING WITH THIS THAT IS ME AND SORT OF OUR OWN SPACE. AND IT WAS INCREDIBLY HARD. IT WAS REALLY HARD. AT THAT POINT, MY DAD WAS

VERY -- I MEAN, HE WAS REALLY FORGETTING A LOT, BUT IT WAS INCREDIBLY HARD TO LEAVE CARLA. >> YOUR STEPMOTHER. >> YES, BECAUSE WE HAD MADE THIS TEAM, AND I FELT LIKE, OH, GOD, I HATE TO DISAPPOINT PEOPLE. >> I KNOW THAT FEELING. >> AND I REALLY DON'T WANT TO LEAVE YOU IN THE LURCH, BUT I HAVE TO GO DO THIS OTHER THING. >> SHE WAS VERY UNDERSTANDING. >> SHE WAS INCREDIBLY UNDERSTANDING. SHE IS JUST A REMARKABLE PERSON. >> YOU HAVE THIS WONDERFUL JUXTAPOSITION BETWEEN YOUR FATHER'S LAST DAYS AND THE BIRTH OF YOUR FIRST CHILD. IT'S ALMOST BRINGING A SYMMETRY OF LIFE AND DEATH. DID GOING THROUGH THIS JOURNEY WITH YOUR FATHER CLARIFY WHAT YOU WANT FOR YOUR OWN LIFE? >> I THINK IT DID. I THINK I AM MUCH MORE EVERYTHING, BECAUSE I REALIZE WITH MY DAD, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME YOU HAVE. LIKE, I DON'T KNOW.

AND I THINK I WANTED TO HAVE KIDS RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE I FELT LIKE, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M GOING TO FORGET, OR WHO KNOWS, A TRUCK IS GOING TO RUN OVER ME, OR WHO KNOWS. BUT I REALLY WANTED TO SHARE MY LIFE WITH THEM, MY FAMILY, AND FOR ME EVERY EXPERIENCE NOW -- IF SOMEBODY SAYS, HEY, DO YOU WANT TO GO, MY FAMILY JUST HIKED THE INCA TRAIL, WHAT DO YOU THINK, DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT, I'M LIKE, YEAH. YES, OH, I DO. AND I THINK THAT REALLY CHANGED ME, BECAUSE I THINK I WAS A LITTLE TIMID WHEN I CAME HOME AND I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW, AND I KIND OF GOT STUCK IN LITTLE PLACES AND I WOULD JUST DRIFT FROM ONE PLACE TO THE NEXT. IT REALLY MADE ME SORT OF TAKE CHARGE OF, HEY, THIS IS YOUR LIFE. YOU HAVE THIS TIME, AND YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING WITH IT. >> THAT'S TOTALLY THE SPIRIT OF TINKERTOWN. >> YES, IT IS. >> TANYA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US ABOUT THIS BOOK. AND WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE THIS ON THE WEB AND HAVE A LITTLE MORE DISCUSSION. THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> OF COURSE. THANK YOU.

>> THE BEST TIME IS ALWAYS THE PRESENT TIME. TODAY IS -- EVERYTHING IN THE PAST WAS WONDERFUL. BEAUTIFUL MEMORIES. BUT THIS IS THE DAY. SEIZE THE DAY. THERE'S YOUR MOTTO. SEIZE THE DAY. THIS IS THE DAY, MY FRIEND. GRASP IT AND HOLD IT CLOSE TO YOU. >> ON FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 1963, PRESIDENT JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY WAS ONE WEEK AGO, OUR NATION MARKED THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF THAT TRAGIC AND GAME-CHANGING EVENT. FOR THOSE WHO ARE OLD ENOUGH, THERE WAS A READY ANSWER TO THE QUESTION: WHERE WERE YOU WHEN PRESIDENT KENNEDY WAS SHOT? AND NOW FOR THOSE TOO YOUNG TO REMEMBER THE DAY, YOU CAN STILL APPRECIATE THE SIGNIFICANCE, CERTAINLY. AND DEDE FELDMAN, HOW DID THAT DAY CHANGE US AS A COUNTRY, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY YOU AS A PERSON, AND HIS LEGACY, JOHN F. KENNEDY. >> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS 1963, AND WE HAD HAD A SEA YOUNG PRESIDENT THAT WAS SO OPTIMISTIC AND SO DIFFERENT

FROM EVERYTHING ELSE. AND WHEN HE WAS -- I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, AND I WAS IN MY -- IT WAS A FRIDAY, AND IT WAS IN MY HISTORY CLASS. SUDDENLY MY TEACHER WAS CALLED OUT OF THE ROOM, AND CAME BACK IN -- THIS WAS AMERICAN HISTORY -- AND SHE WAS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TEACHERS, I JUST IDOLIZED HER, AND SHE CAME BACK IN AND SHE WAS CRYING, AND WE KNEW SOMETHING HAD HAPPENED. AND SHE ANNOUNCED TO THE CLASS THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD BEEN ASSASSINATED, AND THE CLASS WAS CALLED OFF. AND SO IT WAS A VERY, IT WAS A VERY TRAUMATIC DAY FOR SO MANY PEOPLE, BUT IT WAS A UNITING DAY. PEOPLE WERE TOGETHER IN THEIR GRIEF, WHICH IS I THINK A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN IT'S BEEN EVER SINCE. >> I APPRECIATE THAT POINT. AND TOM, ON THAT POINT, YOU THINK ABOUT THAT

ASSASSINATION, THAT MOMENT IN OUR AMERICAN HISTORY, WE'VE HAD SO MANY SITUATIONS SINCE THEN WE'VE ALMOST BECOME HARDENED TO IT, BUT AT THAT TIME THE COUNTRY HAD NOT GONE THROUGH IT. >> YES, IT WAS A TREMENDOUS SAID. I WAS ONLY ABOUT FOUR MONTHS OLD AT THE TIME, BUT RAISED IN AN IRISH CATHOLIC HOME, AND MY GRANDFATHER HAD BEEN AN ADVISER TO PRESIDENT KENNEDY. IT WAS LIKE THE WIND WAS TAKEN OUT OF US, YOU KNOW. I MEAN, GRANTED I DON'T REMEMBER IT. I REMEMBER STUDYING ABOUT IT AND LEARNING ABOUT IT, GOING TO DEALEY PLAZA. BUT IT JUST SEEMED AS IF ALL THE MOMENTUM ALL OF A SUDDEN -- SO MUCH DISCOURAGEMENT. BUT LOOKING WHERE WE ARE TODAY, I THINK THERE'S SOME GREAT PROGRESS AS A RESULT OF THAT, AT A GREAT COST. >> ROB, IT'S INTERESTING TO ME, SOMETIMES, AND BEING FROM MASSACHUSETTS MAYBE I HAVE A BIT OF A DIFFERENCE HERE, I'M SO FILLED UP WITH KENNEDY STUFF, IT'S A PART OF LIVING THERE, YOU WERE THERE, YOU KNOW THE DRILL, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, SOMETIMES I THINK IT GETS CLOUDY ON LEGACY BECAUSE OF THESE THINGS. PRESIDENT KENNEDY, YOU KNOW, HE WAS POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT

ON SOME THINGS; CIVIL RIGHTS, RACE ISSUES. BUT YOU'D THINK THE MAN WAS PERFECT ALL THE WAY DOWN THE LINE. IT'S AN INTERESTING THING. SITUATION WAS SO TRAGIC, AND ALSO THERE'S THE ZAPRUDER FILM. PEOPLE HAVE SEEN IT. I MEAN, OTHER PRESIDENTS WERE ASSASSINATED. LINCOLN, EVERYONE REMEMBERS THAT. McKINLEY WAS ASSASSINATED. SO WAS JAMES GARFIELD. BUT NO ONE ACTUALLY SAW THE EVENT. AND TO SEE SOMEONE SO YOUNG AND SO VIBRANT STRUCK DOWN LIKE THAT, I THINK THAT IS ONE REASON WHY IT HAS SUCH AN IMPACT. AND HE'S REACHED ICONIC STATE, AND WE KNOW HE HAS FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT BECAUSE NOW BOTH PARTIES CLAIM HIM. DEMOCRATS ACTUALLY DO BECAUSE HE WAS A DEMOCRAT, BUT A NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS DO, AS WELL, TOO, BECAUSE HE SLASHED TAXES, ETC., ETC. BUT I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG REASONS WHY THIS HAS MADE SUCH AN IMPACT, IS

BECAUSE WE SAW IT HAPPEN. >> YEAH, INTERESTING. ABSOLUTELY. >> WE HAD A PIECE IN THE SANTA FE REPORTER THIS WEEK WHERE WE TALKED TO HAL WINGO, WHO WAS THE EDITOR OF LIFE MAGAZINE, AND HAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE ZAPRUDER FILM AND HOW IT REALLY CHANGED AND SET THE STAGE FOR THE MEDIA THAT WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE, AND SOME OF US DON'T LOVE, TODAY. YOU KNOW, THIS THING THAT YOU HAVE TO SEE IT. AND HAL WINGO TALKED ABOUT HOW IF THIS EVENT HAPPENED, IF KENNEDY WAS ASSASSINATED TODAY, THAT EVERYONE WOULD HAVE RECORDED THIS ON THEIR SMARTPHONE, THEIR i-PAD. WE HAVE MANY OF THESE AROUND THE TABLE TODAY. THE FACT THAT IN 1963 THERE WAS ONE DUDE WITH A CAMERA. IT'S REALLY AN INTERESTING COMMENTARY ON SORT OF THE WAY THE MEDIA THEN EVOLVED. AND ALSO WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, LIFE MAGAZINE HAD TO PULL THEIR ISSUE THAT THEY'D ALREADY PUBLISHED. THEY PULL IT, THEY REDO THE ISSUE SO THAT THE ZAPRUDER IMAGES CAN BE IN THE MONDAY DISTRIBUTION OF LIFE MAGAZINE.

>> WOW, THAT'S INTERESTING. >> ONE OTHER THING, TOO, IS I THINK THE FACT THAT SOMEONE SO VIBRANT IS STRUCK DOWN, I THINK THAT'S A BIG REASON WHY WE HAVE SO MUCH OF THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES. AND I WOULD ADVISE EVERYONE -- I'VE FORGOT THE NAME OF THE BOOK, BUT VINCENT BUGLIOSI, THE FORMER PROSECUTOR WHO DID 'HELTER SKELTER,' WROTE A GREAT BOOK, IT'S ABOUT A THOUSAND PAGES LONG, BUT JUST READ THE FIRST CHAPTER. IT'S ABOUT THE DAY THAT JFK IS SHOT. AND IT'S REALLY CHILLING, AND IT ALSO PUTS TO REST, AT LEAST I HOPE IT DOES, A LOT OF THESE WACKY CONSPIRACY THEORIES. >> WELL, THE WARREN COMMISSION DIDN'T PUT ANYTHING TO REST, THAT'S FOR SURE. >> NO, I THINK IT'S REALLY A GOOD POINT THAT THIS HAS TO DO WITH TV, AS WELL AS IT DOES HAVE TO DO WITH A VERY ASPIRATIONAL LEADER, BECAUSE REMEMBER HOW KENNEDY CAME TO OFFICE WAS THROUGH THE TV DEBATES WITH NIXON.

AND REMEMBER, IT WAS ONLY THE PREVIOUS YEAR THAT THE CUBAN MISSLE CRISIS WAS RIGHT THERE ON THE TV, AND THE SUSPENSE AND THE DANGER THAT HE RESCUED THE COUNTRY FROM BY BEING FIRM, WAS SOMETHING THAT REALLY -- THAT WAS A SCAR ON THE AMERICAN PSYCHE THAT HE WAS THEN HEALING. AND THEN TO HAVE HIM ASSASSINATED SO QUICKLY AFTER THAT WAS VERY VIVID. >> IT'S INTERESTING. I APPRECIATE ALL YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. IT'S HARD TO LOOK BACK 50 YEARS, FIRST OF ALL, TO SEE WHERE THINGS HAVE GONE WHERE. AND SO TOM, IT'S INTERESTING, AS TIME GOES BY, DO THESE THINGS MORPH OVER TIME? DO THEY CHANGE OVER TIME IN PERCEPTION? >> OH, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. IT'S INTERESTING WHAT HAPPENED 50 YEARS AGO VERSUS -- YOU HAVE TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS HAPPENING 100 TO 150 YEARS AGO WITH THE PLIGHT OF THE IRISH IMMIGRANT. SIGNS GOING UP IN BOSTON, IN PHILADELPHIA SAYING, 'NO IRISH NEED APPLY.'.

AND THE DISCRIMINATION WAS JUST RAMPANT. OF COURSE, THAT HELPED TO SET UP THE STAGE FOR JOHN F. KENNEDY TO RUN FOR OFFICE. AND THEN YOU HAD THE WHOLE RELIGIOUS ASPECT, BEING ROMAN CATHOLIC. WHAT ARE THE CATHOLICS UP TO? AND THEN FORWARD 50 YEARS AND LOOK AT SOME OF THE SUSPICIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE OF DIFFERENT FOLKS FROM DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS BACKGROUNDS. I THINK WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO A LOT OF LESSON LEARNING FROM LOOKING BACK. SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I THINK THAT, YEAH, WE LOOK BACK AND MAYBE HE'S A GREATER PRESIDENT THAN HE REALLY WAS, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, HE PAVED THE WAY, JUST AS OUR CURRENT PRESIDENT IS DOING. NOT EVERYBODY LIKES THE CURRENT PRESIDENT, BUT HE'S PAVING THE WAY. >> GOOD STUFF. GOOD FINISHING NOTE. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT. JUST AHEAD, WE REVISIT AN INTERVIEW WITH THE BELOVED GEORGE FISCHBECK. >> KERMIT WAS BLUE IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE? >> HE WAS MADE FROM JIM'S MOTHER'S COAT. THAT'S ONE OF THOSE STORIES THAT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE

TRUE, BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. IT WAS MADE OF JIM'S MOM'S COAT, AND THE EYES ARE A PING-PONG BALL CUT IN HALF WITH A SLASH CIRCLE ON IT TO MAKE THE EYES. AND THAT WAS IT. IT'S A VERY SIMPLE PUPPET. >> GEORGE FISCHBECK WAS A LEGENDARY PIONEER IN EDUCATIONAL TELEVISION AND WENT ON TO A STELLAR CAREER AS A WEATHERMAN IN LOS ANGELES, BUT IT ALL STARTED HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE WHEN DR. GEORGE HOSTED A CHILDREN'S SCIENCE PROGRAM HERE ON KNME TV. WE REVISIT THE TRIP HE MADE TO OUR STUDIO IN JULY WHEN HE SAT DOWN WITH ME TO REMINISCE ABOUT THOSE EARLY DAYS. TO THE TABLE A TRUE LEGEND OF ALBUQUERQUE TELEVISION, DR. GEORGE FISCHBECK. BACK IN 1959, YOU WERE ASKED NME-TV PROGRAM DIRECTOR, DR. WAYNE BUNDY, TO HOST A 30 MINUTE SCIENCE SHOW. AND AS THEY SAY, THE REST IS HISTORY. DR. GEORGE WELCOME TO KNME. AND NEW MEXICO PBS. SO GOOD TO SEE YOU. WELCOME TO OUR SHOW.

>> NOW I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. >> I ENVY YOU YOUR JOB. I REMEMBER SITTING THERE AND WELCOMING OTHER PEOPLE TO THE SHOW. >> IT IS A GREAT HONOR FOR ME, IT TRULY IS. >> YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS GOING TO LEAD YOU, BECAUSE DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW, MEETING PEOPLE, INTRODUCING PEOPLE, THAT IS A GREAT BACKGROUND TO HAVE. >> I LOVE IT. THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT. >> YOU'RE A SCHOOLTEACHER AT HEART, AREN'T YOU? >> I HAVE NEVER STOPPED. >> TELL US ABOUT THAT. YOU TAUGHT AT MONROE. YOU TAUGHT AT A NUMBER OF SCHOOLS HERE FOR 23 YEARS IN NEW MEXICO BEFORE YOUR TELEVISION CAREER. >> YEAH. >> TALK ABOUT THAT. WHAT WAS IT LIKE BEING A TEACHER FOR KIDS IN NEW MEXICO? >> I COME FROM A FAMILY OF TEACHERS. EVERY MOTHER, AUNT, COUSIN, EVERYBODY, THEY WERE ALL IT IS BETTER THAN WORKING IN THE FIELD. >> VERY MUCH SO. BUT, IT IS A TOUGH BUSINESS, YOU HAVE A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY. AND IT IS CLEAR FROM READING

LIFE IN WEATHER," A WONDERFUL BOOK, BY THE WAY, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THE ENTHUSIASM YOU BROUGHT TO TEACHING AND HOW YOU BROUGHT THAT ENTHUSIASM TO WEATHER. >> COME ON YOU. COME ON. COME ON. AND THEN IT CAME OUT BUT NO CLOUD. YOU KNOW WHY? NOW WE CAN LEARN SOMETHING. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH WATER IN THERE. SO, I AM GOING TO GET MORE WATER IN THERE. CAN YOU GET RAIN OUT OF A CLOUD THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY WATER? NOOOOOO. YOU CANNOT. >> ENTHUSIASM IS A WONDERFUL THING TO HAVE. AND I GET EXCITED ABOUT THINGS. >> YEAH. >> AND THERE IS SO MUCH TO GET EXCITED ABOUT. I GET EXCITED ABOUT THE WEATHER. ALL I CAN DO -- I CAN LOOK INTO A GIRL'S EYES AND TELL WEATHER OR NOT. >> THERE YOU GO.

>> MY SECRET OF LIFE IS OPPORTUNITY. WRITE THAT DOWN IN YOUR LIFE. YOU WILL BE GIVEN OPPORTUNITIES EVERYWHERE YOU GO. DON'T LET THEM PASS BY. GRAB EVERY OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE GOT. YOU HAVE AN EXCITING TIME. IT WILL BE VARIED AND THAT MAKES LIFE MORE INTERESTING. YOU HAVE EVERY OPPORTUNITY. >> YOU STARTED A PROGRAM WITH A LEGENDARY FIGURE HERE AT NEW MEXICO PBS, WAYNE BUNDY. >> I STAND AT ATTENTION. >> WHEN YOU HEAR THAT NAME, DON'T YOU? >> OH, BOY. >> IN 1959 YOU STARTED A SEMINAL SHOW. TALK ABOUT THAT SHOW AND WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO DO WITH THAT SHOW. >> I STARTED WITH WAYNE BUNDY. EVERYBODY'S LIFE HAS A STARTER. SOMEONE WHO WILL GIVE YOU A STEP UP. DR. WAYNE BUNDY IS THE MAN THAT GAVE ME MY FIRST STEP UP AND I WANT TO GIVE A STEP UP TO EVERYBODY. I DON'T KNOW WHO THEY I'LL BE, BUT I WANT TO HELP THEM LIKE I

HAVE BEEN HELPED. GIVE SOMEBODY A STEP UP. >> YOU'RE DOING IT YOURSELF. DO YOU WANT TO WATCH A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT YOU DID IN THAT ERA, 1959. WE HAVE A WONDERFUL TAPE OF YOU DURING A SEGMENT AT THAT TIME. TAKE A LOOK AT DR. GEORGE FISCHBECK DOING HIS THING. >> THIS VOLCANO WAS MADE VERY QUICKLY, VERY EASILY, BY USING NEWSPAPERS -- LET ME GET MY -- UH -- ONE OF YOU FELLOWS BRING OVER THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER AND WE'LL SHOW YOU HOW TO REALLY PUT THIS THING OUT. HERE IT IS DOWN HERE. YOU KNOW WE NEVER DO A PROGRAM WITHOUT HAVING A FIRE EXTINGUISHER ON THE SET. AND, BY GOLLY, WE'LL BLOW THE THING APART THERE. >> THAT WAS A SECTION OUT OF

FIRE PREVENTION AND MESSAGE THAT CAME OUT OF THAT ONE WAS FOR KIDS, ALWAYS CLOSE THE MATCH COVER. OVER AND OVER, THAT GOT DRUMMED INTO THEM, AND I WOULD WALK DOWN THE STREETS AND KIDS WOULD SAY, REMEMBER, ALWAYS CLOSE THE MATCH COVER. AND THAT IS GOOD. THAT MADE ME FEEL GOOD THAT THEY HEARD IT, YOU KNOW. >> WOULD THAT HAPPEN OFTEN ON A LIVE SHOW. WOULD THINGS HAPPEN LIKE THAT OFTEN? YOU WOULD HAVE THINGS LIGHTING ON FIRE, FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK? >> YES. >> WAS THAT PART AND PARCEL. >> YES. IF YOU MAKE THINGS EXCITING, THEN THE PEOPLE WATCH. >> RIGHT. >> BUT THE EXPERIMENTS DIDN'T ALWAYS WORK, DID THEY? GOOD LORD, NO. ESPECIALLY IF YOU BRING ON ANIMALS. OH, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I HAVE A PET HERE, IT IS A KINKAJOU. YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A

KINKAJOU? SEE HOW PRETTY THEY ARE? IT IS CRAWLING ACROSS MY BACK, YOU KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING NOW, HE IS WETTING FROM MY COLLAR RIGHT ON DOWN TO MY BACK BONE. TRUE STORY. >> I BET IT IS. >> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE FAVORITE MEMORIES FROM YOUR TIME AT KNME? ANYTHING ELSE COME TO MIND? >> MY LIFE HAS BEEN A COLLECTION OF THE GOOD FRIENDS THAT I HAVE HAD. NAME WHATEVER I HAVE BEEN DOING AND I CAN TELL YOU THE GOOD FRIENDS I HAVE HAD THERE. RON MIZIKER STARTED OUT AS ONE OF MY NINTH GRADE STUDENTS AND FIRST THING HE WANTED TO DO, HE WANTED TO BE THE ONE THAT BRINGS OUT OF THE EQUIPMENT OUT OF THE LABORATORY TO BRING UP THE SHOW TO THE PEOPLE. HE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE A HELPER. BOY, WHEN HE CAME OUT, HE WAS ALWAYS MY HELPER, EVERYWHERE I WENT. >> HE WENT ON TO A WONDERFUL CAREER AT DISNEY. YOU HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF PROJECTS AND STUDENTS THAT HAVE GONE ON TO DO WONDERFUL

THINGS. HOW DOES THIS MAKE YOU FEEL, YOU HAVE HAD AN IMPACT ON THOSE KIDS LIKE? >> YOU'RE ONE OF MY PROTEGES. >> I LOVE IT, I'LL TAKE THAT TO HEART. SERIOUSLY, IN YOUR BOOK, YOU MENTIONED THERE ARE SCIENTISTS, THERE ARE TEACHERS, THERE ARE TELEVISION PRODUCERS, THERE ARE ANY NUMBER OF KIDS THAT WENT ON TO DO WONDERFUL THINGS UNDER YOUR TUTELAGE. IT HAS TO BE SATISFYING. >> TEACHING THEM ONE ON ONE. YOU DON'T TEACH THROUGH A CLASSROOM. COME OVER HERE AND I'LL SHOW YOU HOW TO DO IT. COME ON OVER. YOU SEE THAT, CAREFUL, IT IS A RATTLESNAKE. >> I HAVE TO SAY TO YOUR DAUGHTER, ALSO, IN THE BOOK A LOT OF THESE ANIMALS WERE AT YOUR HOME DURING THOSE TIMES. >> OH, YES, WE HAD EVERY ANIMAL YOU CAN IMAGINE, TARANTULAS TO PORCUPINES TO SKUNKS. YEAH. NEVER A DULL MOMENT. >> DO YOU EVER THINK WHEN YOU WERE ON THE FARM IN NEW JERSEY, THAT TURNED INTO THE LIFE YOU HAD, COULD YOU EVER

HAVE IMAGINED IT? >> I HAD A MOTHER WHO WAS AN EDUCATOR AND MY MOTHER EDUCATED ME TO ALL THESE THINGS. AND I HAD A NATURAL CURIOSITY. I WOULD LOOK UP THERE, THAT IS THE HINDENBURG FLYING OVER. >> YOU ACTUALLY HAD THAT EXPERIENCE. YOUR FAMILY WAS AT THE DINNER TABLE AND YOU HEARD THE EXPLOSION OF THE HINDENBURG AT THE NAVAL STATION SOME MILES AWAY. >> YES, WHILE WE WERE AT THE SUPPER TABLE. >> I FIND THAT -- YOU MENTION THE OPPORTUNITY. LET ME GO BACK TO THAT FOR A QUICK SECOND. YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO CHANNEL 4, TO KOB AS WELL, BUT YOU REFUSED TO DO IT UNLESS YOU COULD CONTINUE TEACHING AND CONTINUE YOUR WORK HERE AT KNME AND THEY AGREED TO DO IT. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW YOU MANAGED THREE JOBS AT THE SAME TIME, THREE VERY HIGH STRESS, HIGH PROFILE JOBS AT THE SAME TIME. >> IT CAME NATURALLY. >> AND BEING A GOOD FATHER AT THE SAME TIME.

>> MOST IMPORTANTLY. >> YOUR MOM AND LOVELY WIFE SUE IS HERE, TOO. THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. >> DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WORKED THROUGH THE GOLDEN ERA OF EDUCATIONAL TELEVISION, LIKE A TIME THAT IS NOT GOING TO COME BACK. IS THAT THE BEST WE HAD AT THE TIME. PRESENT TIME. TODAY IS -- EVERYDAY IN THE PAST WAS WONDERFUL, BEAUTIFUL MEMORIES, BUT THIS IS THE DAY. SEIZE THE DAY. THERE IS YOUR MONOGRAM, SEIZE THE DAY. THIS IS THE DAY, MY FRIEND. GRASP IT AND HOLD IT CLOSE TO YOU, WHAT A DAY WE HAVE GOT TODAY. YOU AND I AND THEM AND ME. THIS IS OUR DAY. NOT YESTERDAY, NOT TOMORROW, IT IS TODAY THAT COUNTS, YOU AND ME. >> EVEN IF IT IS RAINING. >> IF IT IS RAINING, LEARN TO DANCE IN THE RAIN. >> THERE YOU GO.

>> I LOVE THAT. I HAVE DANCED IN THE RAIN MANY TIMES. >> DO YOU REMEMBER THE TIME ABOUT CARRYING A TELEVISION OUT OF THE STUDIO AND NOT JUST THROUGH -- ALL OVER NEW MEXICO, BUT BY PHYSICALLY VISITING SCHOOLS TO BRING YOUR PROGRAM. >> WHAT OPPORTUNITY. BECAUSE, I HAD A KINSHIP ALREADY WITH EVERY CLASSROOM. I COULD WALK IN AND SAY, HELLO. SEE, AND YOU WERE NOT A STRANGER. THAT IS A GOOD WAY TO BE. BOY. >> YOU BUILT SO MANY RELATIONSHIPS WITH SO MANY PEOPLE THROUGH TELEVISION, USING THE POWER OF TELEVISION AND I HAVE NOTICED WHEN I WATCH YOU, YOU WOULD LOOK DIRECTLY IN THE CAMERA AS IF YOU WERE TALKING TO ONE PERSON OUT THERE INSTEAD OF THE WHOLE CLASSROOM. >> THIS IS THE MAN, HE HAS GOT IT ONE ON ONE. WHEN YOU HAVE A TELEVISION CAMERA IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU DON'T TALK TO EVERYBODY OUT THERE. YOU TALK TO ONE ON ONE, TALK

TO THE ONE KID WHO IS WATCHING. AND NOW, YOU GOT A CONNECTION AND IF THE OTHER KIDS ARE WATCHING, THEY THINK I AM TALKING TO THEM, TOO. AND THEY ARE GETTING IT BUT YOU GOT TO TALK ONE ON ONE IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT CAMERA. >> WHY IS PUBLIC TELEVISION IMPORTANT IN OUR COUNTRY? >> IT IS MY OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO PEOPLE ONE ON ONE. MY OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO KIDS AND ADULTS AND EVERYBODY. AND I REACH EACH ONE. I DON'T REACH EVERYBODY BUT I REACH ONE ON ONE AND I DO IT. AND I FEEL IT. I DON'T FEEL LIKE I AM TALKING TO AN AUDIENCE OUT THERE, I AM TALKING TO A PERSON ON THE END. OKAY, SIT DOWN NOW AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE GOT TO SAY. THAT IS THE WAY IT IS. >> HOW IMPORTANT IS PUBLIC TELEVISION IN YOUR VIEW TO THE WHOLE COUNTRY? >> TELEVISION OR ADVERTISING, WHY DO THEY ADVERTISE, THEY WANT TO GET SOMEBODY'S

ATTENTION AND GET THEIR MONEY. THAT IS WHY I TEACH. I WANT TO GET YOUR ATTENTION AND I WANT YOU TO LEARN WHAT I HAVE TO SHARE WITH YOU. IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, FINE. TURN IT OFF. BUT, I AM GIVING IT TO YOU AND IT DIDN'T COST YOU A PENNY. >> THERE YOU GO. THAT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF PUBLIC TELEVISION THAT IT IS ACCESSIBLE FOR EVERYONE, EVERYONE CAN WATCH, RIGHT? >> YES, AND IT IS ALWAYS ONE ON ONE. IT IS NOT ONE AND EVERYBODY. I AM NOT TALKING TO AN ASSEMBLY, BUT TALKING TO THE ONE PERSON WATCHING ME AND THAT IS A GOOD FEELING. NOW, YOU CAN GET THE INTIMACY AND THAT PEOPLE FEEL THE INTIMACY. THEY CAN FEEL IT. >> I HAVE TO SAY FROM A PERSONAL BASIS YOU -- READING YOUR BOOK, YOU HAVE MADE ME SO PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF PBS AND A MEMBER OF NEW MEXICO PBS AND KNME. I AM SITTING AT THE TABLE WITH A TRUE LEGEND OF PUBLIC

TELEVISION AND I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH. YOU PUT INTO PERSPECTIVE WHAT WE DO HERE EVERY WEEK AND YOU STARTED IT FOR US, DR. GEORGE. YOU STARTED IT OFF THIS WHOLE BUILDING, EVERYTHING; YOU AND DR. BUNDY, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE WITHOUT YOU GUYS, HONESTLY. >> ALL I WAS DOING IS SOMEBODY ELSE GAVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY. ALL I WANT TO DO IS GIVE SOMEBODY ELSE AN OPPORTUNITY LIKE I HAD. I WANT SOMEBODY ELSE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY I HAD. WHEN YOU GET AN OPPORTUNITY, GRAB IT, NEVER LET AN OPPORTUNITY GET AWAY. >> ABSOLUTELY. THE BOOK IS "DR. GEORGE, MY LIFE IN WEATHER." IT WITH RANDY ROACH; A WONDERFUL. IT IS A FABULOUS ALBUQUERQUE READ. THE SECTIONS ABOUT KNME. >> MY LIFE AND THE WEATHER. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH NANCY FOR YOUR HELP AS WELL FOR HELPING OUT WITH THIS. WE HAVE TO SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR LOVELY BRIDE SUE HERE AS WELL, YOUR WIFE. THANK YOU. COME BACK AND SEE US AGAIN,

WOULD YOU? >> WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO >> AS ALWAYS, ALL OF US HERE AT NEW MEXICO InFOCUS APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. CATCH UP WITH US ANY TIME ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY SEARCHING NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. AND YOU CAN FIND ARCHIVED INTERVIEWS AND BONUS MATERIAL FROM OUR SHOWS ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL, AND AT NewMexicoInFocus.org. WE HOPE YOU'RE HAVING A HAPPY THANKSGIVING WEEKEND. I'M GENE GRANT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK