Report from Santa Fe; Jim Hightower

music Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by a grant from the members of the National Education Association of New Mexico. An organization of professionals who believe that investing in public education is an investment in our state's economic future. Hello, I'm Lorraine Mills and I'd like to welcome you to a special edition of Report from Santa Fe. Our guest today is the famous Jim Hightower, populist politician, political commentator, and author extraordinaire. Welcome. Thank you, Lorraine. Great to be with you. Well, I was lovely having you here and I'd just like to show for people who might not know Mr. Hightower, I will read you two of the titles of his books and you will be delighted. If the gods had met us to vote, they would have given us candidates is his most recent book. And the one before is called, there's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos. That's our hint that he's from Texas. Please give us a little of your background. Well, I grew up in a little town right

up against Oklahoma border in Texas. A community of raised in a family of small business folks who came off of tenant farms and in a community of railroad people and main street merchants. Pretty much just you run on the middle class, lower middle class, poor folk kind of a place. And it was a populist country. I didn't know what populism was. It certainly wasn't taught in the schools. But when I went to college, I understood there was this thing called a populist movement and it had actually begun in the state of Texas and had spread throughout the plain states and over here in New Mexico and throughout the south. And had been a very powerful grassroots people's movement. And even as I was growing up, it was expressed well in my own family. There were small business people as I say. My family ran the Main Street News stand in Denderson, Texas. And my

father was always having to go ahead and hand to the bankers and didn't like that. He was always having to do with the change stores moving in. And so instead of dealing with a human, he had to write forms and triplicate and send them off to Dallas and then off to New York. So he was a rebel against all of that. And then the music too, the country music that old Bob Wells tune of Little B sucks the blossom but the big B gets the honey. Little man picks the cotton but the big man gets the money. That was a part of our culture, black blues music, rock and roll music of course. And then also in the churches, Little Methodist Church I went to basically dwelled a lot on that sermon of the likelihood of a rich man going to heaven being as likely as a camel going through the eye of a needle. So it was a very anti -establishment kind of upbringing and place and not until I went to college and I know what to call it. But it wasn't important what it was called. What was important is a sense of grassroots democracy that

the ordinary people of this country, the work of day folks, the powers that ought to be are the ones that are the great strength of our nation. And these days are being kicked out, stomped on by the economic political powers that be. So that motivates my politics as to how do we bring power back to the grassroots level and put the people in charge again. So that would be the definition of the populist movement that you as far as they also call you progressive. They call me a lot of things. And how does progressive, what progressive to me is a broad umbrella of basically people of goodwill who respect the values, what I think as the founding values of our nation, economic fairness, we got that in our guts. I mean, just every little kid from kindergarten on believes that things ought to be fair. Social justice, the

notion that everybody ought to do well, the common good. Social justice, we have that in our hearts. It's very little appeal to the powers that be, but nonetheless it's there. And then a third thing, I think, is equal opportunity for all people, all people. Those are the traumas, I think, of the American belief system, the ethos of democracy. And that's what progressive is. And so, progressives might be liberals who are more swung toward the social issues. They might be some element of libertarian, our civil liberties, our basic rights as individual. And like me, they might be populists who believe that economic power, not just political power, has got to be addressed as well. But the progressive side is a very broad umbrella that includes a lot of diverse elements. But at their heart, I think they believe in economic fairness,

social justice, equal opportunity for all people. Are there progressive Republicans? There are. There are Republicans who probably ought not to be Republican, I would say, but nonetheless they are. They're comfortable in that. They're probably Lincoln Republicans. The last great Republican president we had, I believe, nonetheless. But they are in the belief that, I mean, I respect true conservatives. People who think, for example, that NAFTA and the World Trade Organization and these acronyms of global only is, I refer to them, that are usurping our people's power in this country and throughout the world, are an abomination to everything that Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Payne, the rest of them stood for. A lot of Republicans agree with that. People who think that the U .S. Patriot Act and Patriot Act 2, which is John Ashcroft on Viagra, ugly, that this is an abomination that we can't have this in our country. People who think that the recent

moves by the Federal Communications Commission to allow one or two or three giant conglomerates, global conglomerates, I dare say, not even, you know, attention xenophobes. Not even U .S. corporations, particularly the Rupert Murdoch's, the Disney's, General Electrics, that they should be allowed to control our airwaves, the public's source of information and diversity of opinion that we need, we're actually going to have democracy. There are plenty of Republicans who think that that's wrong. There are plenty of Republicans who think that George W's recent tax giveaway to the wealthiest 1 % of Americans is an atrocity in a time when children's health care is not being met. In a time when our national parks are deteriorating, in a time when we have need for good jobs, good wages, and we need a new energy policy based on conservation methods and based on the independent sources of energy. All of these things are things that could be done with the money

that he is taking out of our treasury at the very top and tossing out very foreverously to people who don't need it, don't deserve it, and many of whom don't even want it. Texas, and forgive us that I'm not a Texan, so I don't want to say anything. Not everybody can be. But it seems to represent in large scale a lot of the national problems, so I'd love it if you'd talk a little bit about what's happening in Texas, and my favorite political story this year is the Texas Democrats going to Oklahoma, please tell us. Texas is a much more maligned state, some of it certainly deservedly, given who we've sent office in recent years, but the truth is Texans are populists, anti -establishmentarians, they're mavericks. In fact, the very term Maverick came from a family in San Antonio, Murray Maverick, who was the mayor of San Antonio, member of Congress during the New Deal, his

son, Murray Maverick Jr., member of the Texas legislature, great fighters. Their forefather was named Sam Maverick, and he was a rancher, and he refused to brand his cattle, and so if you're out on the range and you found a steer that was not branded, it was a Maverick. And so we give to the vernacular this term, this sense of defiance in rebellion, which Texas represents. It's a state that was settled by debtors, people fleeing the tenant farm system out of Mississippi and Alabama and Tennessee, and et cetera. People, in fact, they used to put on their doors a GTT, which meant gone to Texas. Catch me if you can, you know, they fled over to the frontier. Our first state constitution, outlawed banks, you were not allowed to create a bank in the state of Texas. To create a corporation, you had to have a two -thirds vote of both houses of the legislature. These were rebels. They didn't like big concentrated power, governmental, corporate in any form. So that's the real Texas, and that still

is there today. However, you know, we've been taken over pretty much by a money delete that runs our politics, runs our economy. That money delete has captured both political parties. I come to you as a Democrat, elected in the state of Texas, much to the amusement of the people of Texas for a couple of terms as the state agriculture commissioner. But since then, my party has gone to the money. And so it quit talking to the chemical worker in Beaumont, quit talking to the small farmer over in East Texas. It quit talking to the working stiffs and particularly the immigrants and the low -income workers in our state. It quit talking to the Main Street business people. It got identified with the money. So the result is, as is happening, I think to our National Democratic Party, we've got a

party that is, you know, taken off its Sears, Robuck, Workboots, and strutting around in the same Gucci's and Pooches that the Republicans run around in. And so people quit voting. So we've got elections over there where we got 26 % of eligible voters voting. And so they're electing Republicans, not because the state's gone Republican, but because our Democratic Party has failed. It's got to get back, as has begun to happen in Texas. And here in New Mexico as well, with your recent Gubernatorial election, of people beginning, candidates begin to say, we're going to do something for folks again. And as soon as people hear that, I'm going to be on your side. And here's what I'm actually going to do for you. By the way, you notice George Bush and that gang, they never fail to say to the wealthy, here's what I'm going to do for you. So when we have our side say to the vast majority of working stiffs, hey,

we're going to be on your side, then they'll come out again. They'll vote. They'll participate. And that was the excitement that was generated by these Democratic legislators in our state, who, when Tom Delay, the majority leader of the Republicans in the House of Representatives in Washington, a guy who's Newt Gingrich without any of the charm, by the way, decided that he didn't have enough to do in Washington. He needed to interfere with the local politics. And was Texas the only state he came to? No, no, Colorado. He went to Colorado first and got it done there. He reapportioned the reapportionment using the majority. They had both houses in Colorado and a Republican governor. And they reapportioned the reapportionment so that more Republicans could be elected. Same thing he was trying to do in Texas. And 56 Texas Democrats decided they weren't going to stand for this. And they were completely overpoiled. They were not being listened to. They had no negotiation taking place. So they voted with their feet. And 51 of them took off for Ardmore, Oklahoma. And that's

a mark of the courage of their convictions that they would actually go to Oklahoma, which for Texans is really... They could have come to New Mexico. Well, that's what I said. You could have come to Santa Fe. You could have gone to New Orleans. There were a lot of places you could go, but these shows that they were really standing on principle, that they would go to Oklahoma. But they did. They fled to Ardmore, Oklahoma. And the result was that Tom Delay couldn't run this power play. He couldn't pull the sneak attack on the people of Texas. He had no idea. This was even taking place. And I want to mention, by the way, that these Democrats were overwhelmingly conservative Democrats. I know most of them. These are people. They're borderline Republicans. This was not an ideological stand at all. These were people who were just appalled by the sheer power grab, the anti -democratic nature of what Tom Delay, this arrogant autocrat, struggling around like a rooster, who thinks his own cockadoodle do, makes the sun come up in the morning, was trying

to pull off, and they weren't going to stand for it. So they took a tremendous stand. No one did they go across in Oklahoma, 51 of them, but they stayed together. And that's very hard, because there were huge efforts. And I want to thank your attorney general here in the state of New Mexico. Who said, you know, she had me happy to arrest people who stood up for children and represent the health care needs of the people, etc. And also the governor of Oklahoma, when the Texas Rangers surrounded the compound, the holiday in the Denny's restaurant in Ardmore, Oklahoma, they couldn't arrest them. The Texas Rangers had no authority, but they surrounded the compound. And the governor sent in Oklahoma Rangers to form an inner circle around the legislators to protect them from the Texas Rangers. It was a moment of high drama. Well, it is, as I said, my favorite story of anything has happened in politics this year. It's great. Well, this politics will hair on it, you know. Yeah, just got

great, great spirit. Now, speaking of politics with fur on it, you're doing something called the Rolling Thunder Tour. Can you tell us a little about that? Well, in fact, I come here to Santa Fe for the Art of Democracy project, which is spawned here in Santa Fe by a lot of good folks, and going to go across the country. It's just part of the, what I call spontaneous combustion, little de -democratic movement that is spreading around our country of people who are fed up with the political and economic exclusion being hammered down on them by Wall Street and Washington. So they're doing what Americans have always done from 1776 forward, standing up, trying to take their country back. And the Rolling Thunder Down Home Democracy Tour, which kicked off last year in Austin. We've been to Chicago and Tucson and we're Seattle. Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara, Asheville, North Carolina, Minneapolis, St. Paul, off to Kansas City, soon Pittsburgh, et cetera, rolling down the road. But the important thing is not just us, but all kinds of

people are realizing that politics, one ought to be a regular part of our lives. It shouldn't be something that's just the last 30 days in an election, automated phone calls coming into your home, and door -hanging, you know, that kind of thing. But it ought to be people, knowing people, and generating the ideas and the candidates from their local area. And to do that, we got to go back to the old -fashioned way, not just high -tech, but a little bit of high -touch politics, again. And get people together. Let's rub up against each other and have a little beer and wine. I mean, got a lubricate democracy, I think. And have the speeches. We got folks like Maracle Moor and Granny D and Molly Ivans, Cornel West, Jesse Jackson Jr., Tom Hayden, some great, great, great folks. Barbara Arnreich, many, many others, speaking. But also have workshops so people can actually connect. What can you do today that would make a difference in your life? Not just in terms of far -away things like the World

Trade Organization, but how do you take control of your own doctor? Patch Adams, the great clown and doctor, is a part of our program. And he brings in people and trains them and teaches them how you can take control of your own doctor. You ought to get more than seven minutes when you go see your doctor. And you can. And we tell stories of success. And that's what's missing a lot in progressive politics is understanding. We're winning at a grassroots level, living wage campaigns, toxic waste numps, battles against hog factories, students against sweatshops, just battles against Walmart and phenomenal fights and victories taking place across America. So we need to bring people together, let them see all of this great action, but also mix up the music and bring the food. And as I say, the beer and wine and the poetry and the art so that we get to know each other and understand that we're all part of a larger political community that's part of a larger society, and in which the common good matters more than

private greed. And our slogan, by the way, is put the party back in politics. I think we need more of that. It ought to be fun. Well, it's perfect that you're in New Mexico because as you know, New Mexicans are passionate about their politics. They love fun too. When my husband first came here, he was told by Governor Cargo back in 1950 something. Welcome to New Mexico. You'll find the people here are passionate about politics, but they're not too interested in government. So I think the rolling thunder too will do. Will they just find here? I'd like to ask your opinion as our neighbor. How you observe what's happening in New Mexico politics. We're very proud of how involved people are here. Well, it just shows that again, if people feel they can make a difference, they participate. And you've got folks like my friend, Charlie Baca, you know, now on the public utility commission. Regulatation commission. I forget the nomenclature. You've got the initiative that was taken here to have public financing

of your utility election officers. Meaning that, you know, they don't get their money from the people they're supposed to worry about. Hello. So people power begins to come back. You've got a guy like Richardson in office who's involving people again in ways that might actually make a difference for ordinary people. And so it's not just the money interests that run things again. And this is what we have to have. That's the reason I advocate. Get out of Washington to the progressive movement. Get out of Washington. We've lost Washington. We can no longer pretend that Bill Clinton or Al Gore, somebody's going to be there to save us. I didn't think they did that good of a job saving us to begin with. But nonetheless, they're no longer there. Now we've got a group of people, Bush and Ashcroft and Rumsfeld and Cheney, that are nuts. They're insane. They're loopy. They have a messionic, autocratic, plutocratic view of the world in which they are trying to change America. Change that notion that we're all in this together.

The rich are going to be the ones that get all the benefits. So we're going to destroy government that could provide any amelioration of the needs of folks who are hard -hit or could use a helping hand up. That we are going to be imperialists around the world. This is not what America is. This is not the America of economic fairness, social justice, equal opportunity for all people. So if they're going to go that way as they are doing in Washington, then we've got to build it again. As Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Payne started in 1776, as so general truth and Frederick Douglass, as the suffragists and abolitionists, as the populists and wobblies, as the labor movement, civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, Cesar Chava, Chava's junior, as we've had to do throughout history. Now, we the folks have got to do the heavy lifting at a grassroots level. We can't do it nationally. That's too big. You do it locally, right where you are. And that's how you

change America. And the good news is, and I travel just about every place it's got a zip code, there's some body or some group of some bodies out there everywhere battling the bastards. And more often than not, they're winning. And so we've got to form coalitions around these groups. And together, we can take that power back. Well, that's your analysis of the administration. And what do you think of the overall Republican situation right now? And then the overall Democrat situation right now? Well, the Republicans have been captured. There are certainly good Republicans in the Congress elsewhere in office. I mean, much less just the rank and file Republican of Goodwill. But nationally, the Republican party has been captured by both the corporate interests and then right -wing interests. That are very narrow, that reflect less than 20 percent of the viewpoint of the American people. I think that that is

incumbent on the conservatives, the true conservatives, the constitutional conservatives within the Republican party, who are appalled by the U .S. patron -axe or some of the other actions, the assault on the medical marijuana. I mean, just insane stuff, loopy, ideologically driven stuff. It's incumbent on those conservatives to reclaim their own party and to bring it back to a level of sanity that could appeal to a broader public. But the failure in our American politics is not the Republican right -wing, they're representing, they're who they are. I saw George W. Bush five years as Governor of Texas. He's an absolutely corporate wet dream. I mean, any fantasy that a CEO has comes true, you know, if you put money into Bush's pocket, that's who they are. Okay, that's who they're going to be. Who are we going to be? And at the national level, my Democratic party has sided with the Republican interests, particularly with the corporate interests, and has abandoned that populist constituency and the

populist principles that are the very rationalization of the Democratic party. Why should it exist? We don't need another Republican party, another corporate party. We need a party who's going to stand for those work -a -day folks out there. Well, in yesterday's Austin -American statesman town I live in, a story, a target store opening another store in Austin, 250 jobs. 2 ,000 people showed up at 9 a .m. in the morning to take a job that's going to pay six bucks an hour. That's the economy. Well, who's talking to those people? Those people are in voting. That's who the Democratic party has got to get back to the grassroots, work -a -day stiff in this country. The main street business person who's been squeezed out by the Wal -Mart and the Barnes and Nobles and Starbucks, you know, and those outfits. We've got to get back to real people at a local level and a real local economy again. If we do, then the Democratic party will not only have a reason

to exist, it will win. And my question to you is, how are those people being reached out to? Do you consider the media to be liberal, conservative, and where is? And this is my, you know, we're running out of time. My last question to you. Courage and journalism. I think you represent it. Where else can we find it? Well, it's all independent journalism. You're your alternative, this show, for example, your local independent radio station, community radio station, you know, which I'm on here in Santa Fe. Independent newspapers, publications like Nation and Indian Mother Jones, my high tower low down. You got to go find the media. The internet's full of it, of course. But basically, we the people have got to take the power back. Nobody running for president is going to come hand it to us. Saw a guy recently wearing a button. Best political button I ever saw said, wearing a button is not enough. See, I mean, it's not enough. We can't be passive progressives again.

We've got to become agressive again. Because the powers that they become radically regressive. And we're in another one of those winning the course of human events moments that Thomas Jefferson wrote about in the declaration. It's up to us. We the people. We've got the power. As Patty Smith sings, the power to dream, to rule, to wrestle the world from fools. That's where we are. Well, you have done all three and are quickly vanishing time. I'd like to thank you for being with us today. Our guest today is Jim Hightower, a famous radio personality and author. And I hope you'll come back one really fun to rolls through again. Thank you very much. Thank you. I'm Lorraine Mills, and I'd like to thank you our viewers for being with us on report from Santa Fe. Thank you. Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by a grant from the members of the National Education Association of New Mexico. An organization of professionals who believe that investing in public education is an investment in our state's economic future.

You