Report from Santa Fe; Garrey Carruthers

in the end the commission report from santa fe is made possible in part by a grant from the members of the national education association of new mexico an organization the professionals who believed that investing in public education is an investment in our state's economic future hello iowa read mills and i'd like to welcome you to report from santa fe i guess it is one of mexico's finer statesman former gov characterizing how come they hear that did you hear the wives are happy to have you because you are you know you gotta blow your fingers on the pulse of every major issue that's happening in the state i'm very thankful you're coming to your philistine what's happening so some of our topics of discussion today will be a member of the blue ribbon tax reform commission and you've been president of summer on health care since nineteen ninety threes so you know about health issues and you are one of the republicans came out in favor of the

constitutional amendments that were having a special election for on september twenty third solo cup of that there too so welcome thank you for being with us you know i'm delighted to be here it's been awhile i let's talk a little about your background you know i know you have a phd in economics your professor at new mexico state you were governor from nineteen eighty seven to nineteen ninety nine to current president of summer on health care from ninety three and now the newly appointed dean of a new mexico state school of business correct so tell us how that formed you into india came back to my roots to be honest with you know i started off a university professor in mexico state university and their own economy wandered off the reservation about twenty three years ago until people with an exiled because i've been in politics and that was essentially true but i always missed it even though the government i love the job that i was in this is that challenging and

remarkable career in business but every now and then i would say cathy in our anyone go back to university that's that were started that was my first love that's my last love that's what i want to be always enjoyed the rest and started saying i'm sitting at sewing and finally in fact when members and you're saying coming back and that's a job opened that just fiction that woman in being business mr shin and when somebody will spend for your fortune a time out with the business community and the government the other sixty percent of the time being the and we think you're just the right guy for that so i pondered for wildlife and they gave it to me and i'm having a great time it's great to be back on campus and to great university i've always been proud of it and i did get to the back and maybe share some of those other experiences you he talked about factors rather novel the pro the first visits the navy in new mexico that came out of those that's normally if you're being you come up through the ranks you cannot assistant professor associate foreign media department it may become mundane

i came from a hold of her world so i hope those experiences pale for the next i know they'll bring into medicine i do about two thousand students two thousand two hundred students in our college in about eighty five thirty five so allen what do you bring from your health care we're running at one of the largest health care businesses how can you know a pastiche that under there so that people know what jobs are available the climate the shifting sands of the major industries well i think just have an experience in business is the most important thing i can do and i made a comment on one of the five members of the business plans and bridge repairs is planning an effect or members of a whole wheat it's that we don't do that then known as the old masters professor is so and so i said well we were going to change all of that and what i'm trying to do is that the college are more businesslike basis and i think a relatively

enthusiastic about some of my notions and we're currently working on strategic planning to build revenue and costs on to our business but i'm also trying to bring to the university and to that college a real fascination for customer service we have a number of customers the faraway are probably our closest customer students animal make sure we take care of a customer but also the other factories are all faculty another plaque was the business community and the next the state in general because the universities over the state some trauma brain what i learned in business in health care business is the only state in business he had great customer service troop carrier customers and so i'm trying to do is bring that plus the business section and that i picked up and trying to make it business work and when your last summer on a couple times it was not always a financial says success and you learn along the way some real lessons and i'm trying to bring those lessons of having learned my business

than in the school of hard knocks walking the halls of academe know i've caught you walking the halls of the state capital which must be very good evocative of year governorship here what do you think is a comeback at getting these tax reform commissions what what what bubbles up from your governor or was at an enthusiasm for public policy have never really been out of public policy them on and get out now that just because i'm a dino be actively engaged project manager jason policies which units and reduce volatility will talk about what went wrong but always enjoyed public policy and one of the reasons the danger could say well there's so much of our public policy do economic development the creation of jobs and things of that nature so bobby greatly involved coming back to santa fe but frankly i don't think a one to come back here on a more permanent basis alike and i can visit a good relationship with civil servants here and with this current administration says that in the past the administration and so it's always a pleasure to come back it's rewarding to me i can use my experience

well although the president poland as the long term is one month into intense projects that i can really think of it as your commissioner the one that you chair a committee of your toes with that in a minute but the blue ribbon tax reform commissions mission was to study and make recommendations for complete overhaul the state's tax system and even meeting work two days twice a month all the long and surprisingly break we think well i had where it was not in fact in a discussion that has really created most of the time controversy and that is the possibility of taxing five wilensky three coverage and so a civil war were to do that because they're normally associated with charitable organizations most charitable organizations are five once the trees but there are some larger ones under fire one two threes and we don't tax right now and probably the one that comes to mind of los alamos national laboratory and

and we don't tax was almost marshal ordered that we do tax sandy a corporation which is really a spinoff of los alamos national laboratory and so in terms of equity people wonder at that is a fair and reasonable thing to do was almost whatever that we tax or contractors which leaves a lot of births its tax money and the local communities and that in fact is correct but we also say it have on the hospital side we have about fifty or fifty five hospitals that we don't tax me about five or six for profit hospitals are we do text and one asked us a question is it fair to tax these five or six when other tax those fifty far less so those are the kinds of duration we're going through right now when that question is asked who answers to make those visitors commission will make recommendations of the legislation and then at the special session to that on the special session that starts out to a twenty seven all this will be hashed out yes the street now which can add a chair and therefore the equity

subcommittee in and the only question before the equity subcommittee and my view was his ever water every firm that's in the same position taxed the same way and that's why in the fire won't see three issued because some violence two trees who are producing the same kinds of goods are not being taxed will those the hospital situation before profit ones we're being taxed the not for profit or not being at my recommendation and it's gonna be better the tax commission would have to agree to it is that we probably ought to make provisions for these fires six minute that there would not be tax under certain circumstances because if he attacks the other fifty five then you just driving the price of health care again and it's already escalating from iowa the background is already escalating far to rapidly so poignant is that certainly the morally troubling problem so those are the kinds of deliberations and discussions and so the aggregate committee commission are

lots at inequities the fairness issue and your main subjects are the national labs it's taxing theirs and the hospitals and the many asked whether that was a girl scout cookies tons of the violence is threatening and then there are other investors look at it although the year on october twenty seven will be your run a misleading way up two more days coming up in a month they will show up to make sure and that that's been attempted in the past until in this quite politically volatile but that's not the intent of looking at equity unless there is a violent century that competes commercially with the non violent century and that happens i'm told and some services that that some people actually former felons to carry corporations the one that's always given his workout gym that there are a whole host of their private for profit minimalist forms that are private not for profit under some educational aspect of the problems with three law and they can they compete directly with the one to have to pick

and so those are the kinds of conditions that exist the other thing we're looking at is the proceeds tax which is our version of themselves as a whole host of these engines of the abductions and been granted was done for writer priests or not you know whether we ought to retain those exemptions deductions and some of a problem though well i remember they always has to read zero based budgeting or you start from every day in the same playing field and then it ferries tensions in here and begin maybe we'll be looking at something like that i just recommended to the commission recently that in the future when the legislature and the governor decide to grant any kind of exemptions or benefits from the tax code that that be evaluated over five or six years or sunset or five or six years so that you would for shooter by winter insurer but what we thought were getting by giving their projects or exemptions or deductions that that in fact the draws that jobs were created there the

conditions that we thought would happen did happen otherwise you may find some counties over into international talks in session and not doing much at all oh now it's killing health care visits well mine years and years as she is i just read that health care premiums health care insurance premiums and down another fourteen percent but what is the what is the future holds for all of us with health care here one has to imagine that changes have to occur and in their service reasons that this happens more recently there was a rather rapidly increasing costs of hospitalization and that was driven by two things the consolidation of hospitals in the united states and we've had that happen as you know in albuquerque the consolidation of the st joseph's global system typically according to those who violate the sayings of those consolidations lead to greater market position for the hospital and therefore they can charge more that has not

happened in the albuquerque case at least to help but that the other driving factor is when i'll enough nurses or text to romney's hospitals and as a consequence the cost of labor is escalating rapidly the third factor is more more no more imagine everything is more sophisticated and more expensive and you and i as customers of health care system on the latest gadgets we want we will make sure we're getting the very best treatment and that cost money i think one of the things we've noticed in the industry is utilization of healthcare dramatically we are in fact contacting our health care delivery system much more the way we did in the past part that maybe because we're not in this condition is we should be as a cost though i have to admit that the real reason as world you know and as you know it with the aging of the population there is a tendency to have to show up at the doctor's office an occasion they have a procedure to comedy and give the overhaul salute and continual so that aging the population in mexico with a man and we

are big watchers and then we americans are mainly mexicans want instant gratification from our health care system and so what happens is i think occasionally built too much capacity because we need that instant gratification we don't tell you well that sort of an elective procedure comes season three months but we don't like that when we when we think we need a procedure we wanted next week the latest and that cost money to build the capacity however when one routine apartment were broken three or four months in advance because the doctors are so busy in the schedule donna taylor think the solution ultimately will be that for routine kinds of things i heard of maxim speech on them by one of the clues michelin at a meeting of the american association health plans and he says we have to get over having to have an indian in in the room giving us his exams it will have to move much more rapidly to what they would call mid levels certified nurse practitioners in particular physician assistants as well and that they can do and as a matter

fact i did a focus group that was cruise's with some of our patients are some of our members of our health plan and they were very attractive to a group of women certified nurse practitioners for women ski every woman in their wanted to go there because of severe more personalized ringtone better understanding that we're not as rushed and they're not as expensive as as andie so i think our system politically given the reality of the state we're going to have to encourage the development and use of certified nurse practitioners and physician assistants to take care that and that will begin to get you mean sooner to see a qualified health care provider yeah you spoke of listening to a health care group speak to you but whenever we turn on the television every presidential candidate has a health plan so i'm wondering what you hear in the scranton of any the appeal to you of image of what you think the workforce as a state and as a nation well the governor connally wants

to have everybody in or some kind of coverage then that suggests that you're going to have a kind of three components of the market you don't have those people who are totally recovered by a public program the medicaid and medicare are generally speaking you're going to have at the other end of the continuum those are covered by commercial insurance because employer provides an in the middle i foresee we're going to have a mixed program this could be partially federal or federally state funded and partially private and there is such a plan in mexico right now and designed over the last two three years ms gall well planned and it was put together by political leaders hospital leaders positions the insurance companies and everything else and what that plan does is that is directed towards small businesses with relatively low income people in the small business of implode care like seventy five dollars a month for insurance coverage and the rest would be picked up by medicaid and general fund

and that's the middle of the problem of our healthcare insurance business is the middle group that commercially that their cars are going in tremendous of medicaid and medicaid but we have this gap in the middle but are not covered at all this stradivarius three tiers based and generally speaking yes these people are fully employed and normally everyone are well paying jobs these people are either senior under medicare order of poor people live in these people some of these and then in the middle a whale population of the very young and don't buy insurance and a lot of indigent people they're working but they can't afford insurance and roar their company does not offer insurance coverage so they're kind of as they say going naked and that's not a good place to be particularly if youre relatively young and your grandchildren they're theirs rather major cost now of hospitalization for children maternity cost now go up rather dramatically over time and most people who can't afford insurance can afford

to have children in the hospital with a buttery twitter do you see a sunday episode of luck every year were so low that i'm afraid even say universal healthcare single payer and producing any kind of let's call universal healthcare possible in the state like ours and even possible initially did that universal healthcare from universal coverage and they're different i say that universal health care is like the canadian system and in the end this is kind of a everybody's in the system and it will be in the system that the new concept which they call universal coverage is much like i just justice scalia make sure that every element of the population has some avenues that they could be covered and some of the toilet public still be going private and some of the myths and there seems to be a movement nationally and to some degree in our state to take more concern of coverage and access then to have a single payer system so

persistent is opposed by a lot of people and that it will always be around as an alternative but it doesn't have the great support for the opposition groups it certainly doesn't have a great support of those of us who have been in the industry of insurance and i don't think many people in the business community are very supportive of having a single pair system that is becomes a government run program and for some reason there's never been very appealing to americans i wonder could be the government's track record something our government there's probably no one in the us each year track record as an education because there is a lot governor richardson called the most important election in the history of state coming up on september twenty third these constitutional amendments for education which you speak a little bit about the one thing that i won't tell you going in i was so impressed with the bipartisan support and although i am in a suspicious of figures in the country girl

i'll when i know you got a phd in economics and your republican of your support these amendments and pete domenici head of the senate budget committee is a republican also supports this supports governor richardson's plan and the nea are his people tell us a little about this election and why some pretty strange bedfellows us airlines themselves became after four five who have traditionally been working on education reform group called international business roundtable its a collection of businesspeople who spoke to this issue and through two task forces you remember the initial task force's speaker centuries and then present return mayor govern together we went through the whole process pass legislation had a big budget that governor johnson veto and probably correctly because of the big budget by winter another one this recently with governor richardson that was a mormon a modest approach to that it did best was signed into legislation so so we've been at this for about

five years and in the process it's the union learned to live with it with the administrators with the teachers with the business community what the politicians will finally learn to live together on this issue governor richardson came along and through his leadership we were able to get it through the legislature and he had to be reasonably persuasive so for about now the reason i cultures with governor richardson is is it it is a nonpartisan issue of which we both feel intensely about and store up trying to recommend that people vote and what i do recommend a book for a minute long wedges establishes a cabinet member answering to the governor for education matters i've been promoting that for years after my experience here as governor what i found is there was a school board over here that didn't respond to the government and they ran the public schools and there was a commission on a higher education those affiliated with oliver universities

and the governor had only some influence or because he'd he appointed a commission both for budgetary matters that never came together and talked about education and they neither one were very responsive to budget direction but most of all a member of the go and give me a five percent budget the beach in the seventeen percent budget let me pared down but the real problem is they were never the cabinet advocate for education and that there was always a sector transportation advocate in the transportation sector corrections advocating for presents itself an education was just not there so we need that we need the keeper of the flame we need a visionary that helps us identify where we want to take a statement to get the second one deals with funding the risk for reforms are really successful in getting and that will require an increase in the distribution from the political fight and we have in the past taken out as much as nine point two percent of the principal on the nineteen ninety six by cost fishermen but we set it at four point seven percent

this is a request for twelve years to move it up to five twenty percent for about fire six years and got them about five point for that drops then fight and it has some safeguards so that if the prominent phone is not protected them bales back five and there's no more distributions so we are very supportive of the voters on september twenty third governor richardson and i don't speak for him often the governor richard iii are asking all of our people interested in improving education in mexico to go up now or on september twentieth are going to have questions you know you had a very articulate answer representative george buffet pants and that one of his own wonderful is that it's called buffet of buffett's bullets condemning these amendments and your dope a very eloquent responsible if you could come to neutralize or get your response to some of the concerns that people have they own the the buffett himself calls it a raid on the permit

france and yet when tony gutierrez byrd democrat chair was speaking about these amendments with us she said that's why it's really like a harvest you don't have to kill their the tree to harvest the kinds of keys allows racist in their pajamas december well first of all it's there to to finance education that its current it is six point eight one billion dollar level if we take off the percentage that i just mentioned to you over the next twelve years by the year twenty twenty or twenty twenty one the fund will still grow to fourteen point three billion dollars if we don't take it off it goes to just over fifteen billion dollars so well but where is that and so there is no raid on the phone the phone will continue to grow it's actually grown at about eight point two percent per year was ten or twelve years so we're not working we're allowing for to grow at the same time we're making investments and that was intense but the economists feel fairly comfortable with their projections that the phone can grow from work is it

twenty one million to fourteen to fifteen billion with this investment but we have to we have to phone the reform minded they were most women's ngo work in the reform there's there are we instituted for the first time ever a three cheers salary structure for public schoolteacher right nail into a want to be a public school teacher in the mix go on air was about twenty four thousand dollars pretty low the entry level under this new scheme will be thirty thousand dollars six of knowing prince we need to keep our good teachers and then have our good graduates stay here and a nice crystal universe to reproduce a lot of bilingual teachers that are college of education you drive across the border to forty miles in el paso and it for five thousand dollars more so where we're generating teachers your arizona california texas everybody else can you get a salary up where we get to keep them then there's the next level

with certain tests and everything else that you can ride you can go for a thousand dollars a year for nine month contract and if you become a master teacher you can live to fifty thousand marchers and what we're saying is teaching as a profession that's a very good profession and we will compensate you for that you need to be tested along the way to make sure you can perform we've never had that for every make that investment in teachers the students will benefit from a guarantee just one thing that i'd like you to speak for just the one or two minutes left i was very impressed with the safeguards so that the people who are nervous about the status of the fun that having dips below a certain amount of money these increases over distribution are stopped by three chefs vote and the legislature a county stopped receiver well i was quite impressive as thorough and above the legislature and i thought about the religion or internet because i think those oh it's a friend drops below a certain amount then that says that but i think they were responding but i

think the legislature by crafting the amendment but they are already responded to the anxieties of those who believe it's a river i think they were visionary now listening to the same people that make your point said ok i understand you're fearful of funds going to disappear let me put some some conditions in there to get into their will have the saudi arabia the legislature in crafting that that's not the way with senator we senator industry off was doing and they responded to that constituency by saying ok we're trying to confront i think the war i think you have done a marvelous job when the time is up so i'd like to thank you on governor gary carruthers deftly worded wry states many of taught us so much today thank you for being with us to be with i hope so in only read mills i'd like to thank you for being with us and reports from santa fe report from santa fe is made possible in part by a grant from the

members of the national education association of new mexico an organization the professionals who believed that investing in public education is an investment in our state's economic future fb