New Mexico in Focus; 521; Congressional Hopeful Michelle Lujan Grisham

>> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO INFOCUS - >> WE NEED MORE FOLKS ON THE GROUND, MORE CONSTITUENT SERVICES AND MORE ADVOCACY. >> A CANDIDATE FOR CONGRESS ONCE AGAIN, MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM MEASURES HERSELF AGAINST HER OPPONENTS, AND AGAINST MARTIN HEINRICH. PLUS, AS SUSANA MARTINEZ LOOKS TO HER PAST, WE'LL TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT HER FUTURE. NEW MEXICO INFOCUS STARTS NOW! >> THERE IS A CURIOUSLY CLOSE RACE AMONG THREE PROMINENT DEMOCRATS IN NEW MEXICO'S FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. THIS WEEK, WE SIT DOWN WITH MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM TO TALK ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN SHE'S RUNNING AGAINST MARTY CHAVEZ AND ERIC GRIEGO, AND WHAT SHE'S LEARNED FROM HER LOSING THE RACE FOR THE SAME SEAT THREE YEARS AGO. ON THE LINE THIS WEEK, WE TURN THE KEY ON A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HOUSING MARKET. FOR DECADES IT'S PLAYED A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THE STATE'S ECONOMY AND RECOVERY OF ONE MAY DEPEND ON THE RECOVERY OF ANOTHER. PLUS, WERE REPORTS OF THE DEMISE OF A VOTER FRAUD

INVESTIGATION PREMATURE? THE LINE OPINES. WE'RE "ON THE CLOCK" WITH THE WEEK'S NEWS, AS WELL. BUT FIRST, WE'RE INFOCUS ON THE DEVELOPING IMAGE OF NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ. >> GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ THIS WEEK REVEALED SHE BELIEVES HER ANCESTORS CAME TO THE U.S. LEGALLY. THAT DISTINCTION IS IMPORTANT FOR THE GOVERNOR NOW, TAKE THE WASHINGTON POST, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH TOOK NOTE OF THE STORY AND POINTED OUT THAT GOVERNOR MARTINEZ DIDN'T COME UPON THE INFORMATION BY CHANCE; SHE ASKED HER POLITICAL TEAM TO DO GENEALOGICAL RESEARCH. IT'S JUST THE FIRST PART OF OUR LONGER DISCUSSION ABOUT SUSANA MARTINEZ AND HER IMAGE. SO, JOINING US THIS WEEK, TWO GUESTS. BOTH FAMILIAR FACES. INCOMING CEO -- SO GOOD TO SAY THIS -- INCOMING CEO OF THE CENTER FOR CIVIC POLICY, STEPHANIE MAEZ-GIBSON. SHE'S BACK WITH US. AND CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST, BUSINESSMAN, HUSBAND, GREAT GUY, MIKE FRESE. THEY ARE JOINED BY TWO REGULAR, BUT BY NO MEANS UNREMARKABLE PANELISTS. ATTORNEY LAURA SANCHEZ, AND FORMER HOUSE REPUBLICAN WHIP DAN FOLEY. NOW, LAURA, THESE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT.

THE GOVERNOR CERTAINLY ASKED HER TEAM TO DO THIS. AND AS A GENEALOGICAL KIND OF NERD, I THINK IT'S KIND OF COOL. I'M REALLY HAPPY FOR THE GOVERNOR AND HER FAMILY. THIS IS ACTUALLY KIND OF A COOL THING. BUT ON THE POLITICS OF THIS, WHY DO YOU THINK THIS WAS PUT IN MOTION? WAS THIS A BIG DEAL TO ANYONE BEFOREHAND? RUN-UP TO THE ELECTION WHETHER IT WAS A BIG DEAL, BUT CERTAINLY I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO ASK QUESTIONS GIVEN HER STRONG SUPPORT FOR REPEALING THE DRIVER'S LICENSE, IMMIGRANT DRIVER'S LICENSE ISSUE. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE ASKING, AND SORT OF WANTING TO UNCOVER AND KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THAT. SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WOULD ENGAGE IN THAT, WHY THEY BASICALLY WOULD SEEK OUT THE TRUTH. I FIND IT INTERESTING, TOO. I THINK ANYTIME WE GO BACK AND FIND OUT ABOUT OUR HISTORY AND WHERE WE COME FROM, I THINK IT'S USEFUL INFORMATION. I'M NOT SURE ANYBODY NECESSARILY -- I DON'T THINK THIS NECESSARILY CHANGES ANYBODY'S MIND ON ANY OF THE ISSUES. >> INTERESTING. I WANT TO STAY RIGHT ON THAT POINT WITH DAN; CHANGES OF ANYBODY'S MIND. DOES THIS MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR VOTERS CASTING OUT

FORWARD? >> I'M NOT SURE IF THAT IS AS BIG AS YOU DECLARING YOURSELF A NERD. I THINK YOU SHOULD QUALIFY THAT. >> I DO ALSO WANT TO CORRECT MY COLLEAGUE HERE, IT'S NOT ABOUT DRIVER'S LICENSES FOR IMMIGRANTS, IT'S ABOUT DRIVER'S LICENSES FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. AND THERE'S A DIFFERENCE. I'M NOT SURE PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS. I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S THE GOVERNOR. YOU DIDN'T ELECT THE GOVERNOR'S PARENTS, YOU DIDN'T ELECT HER GRANDPARENTS, YOU ELECTED HER. YOU ELECTED HER PHILOSOPHY. NOW, GRANTED, YOUR PHILOSOPHY COMES FROM YOUR LIFESTYLE PRIOR TO GETTING ELECTED, BUT I THINK HOW HER PARENTS OR GRANDPARENTS CAME TO THIS COUNTRY IS IRRELEVANT, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY TIMES WERE DIFFERENT 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 YEARS AGO. AND I THINK THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT ISSUES TODAY THAN WE WERE 60, 70 YEARS AGO. AND SO I THINK IT'S INTERESTING, I THINK THAT PROBABLY THE REASON THAT SHE ASKED IS BECAUSE THERE'S -- YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO BE AN INQUIRER TYPE STORY. I MEAN, EVERY DAY AFTER THE ELECTION, AND ANY TIME THIS

ISSUE HAS COME UP, SOMEONE HAS EITHER TRACED SOMETHING IN HER ROOTS, FOUND SOMETHING OUT ABOUT HER ANCESTRY. SO I THINK SHE JUST WANTS TO PUT THIS TO REST. LET'S FIND OUT. LET'S LAY IT ON THE TABLE. IT IS WHAT IT IS. I'LL BET IT DOESN'T CHANGE HER PHILOSOPHY ONE BIT. >> SURE. AND IT TURNS OUT, STEPHANIE, HER GRAND-DAD GOT A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD IN '64, I THINK WAS THE YEAR. IT SOUNDS PRETTY DEFINITIVE, AND PERHAPS WE CAN ALL JUST PUT THIS ALL TO BED AT THIS POINT, AND THAT'S NO BIG DEAL. BUT AGAIN, ON THE POLICY AND THE POLITICS SIDE, DOES THIS MEAN ANYTHING FOR HER PERHAPS NATIONAL ASPIRATIONS? POINT, AND I WAS GOING TO COMMENT TO WHAT LAURA AND DAN BOTH SAID, THAT IT IS INTERESTING. IT MAY NOT NECESSARILY CHANGE THE OPINIONS OF PEOPLE ON POLICY MATTERS. HOWEVER, THERE ARE SOME POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS, I THINK, WITH RESPECT TO HER NATIONAL POLITICAL AGENDA. I THINK WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY TRYING TO REACH THE LATINO VOTE, IF, IN FACT, SHE DOES MOVE TO A MORE NATIONAL PLATFORM, I THINK THAT THIS IS SORT OF LAYING THE FOUNDATION FOR THAT. IS THAT GOING TO WORK? I DON'T KNOW. AND THERE ARE IMPLICATIONS THAT IT HAS AT THE STATE LEVEL WITH REGARD TO THE

IMMIGRANT DRIVER'S LICENSES. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT CHANGES PEOPLE'S MINDS, EITHER. I THINK THAT IT'S CONCERNING, THOUGH, TO SOME MEMBERS OF THE ELECTORATE AND TO SOME MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY THAT THERE'S A CERTAIN LEVEL OF, I THINK, HYPOCRISY. WE SAW SEVERAL MONTHS AGO THAT SHE WAS ALMOST DISOWNING HER FATHER'S FATHER, BUT YET HER MOTHER'S FATHER, SHE'S EMBRACING, BECAUSE HE HAS SOME LEVEL OF NOTORIETY. AND THAT'S A LITTLE BIT CONCERNING, THAT SHE'S EMBRACING IT WHEN IT SERVES HER SELF INTEREST. AND THAT'S OF CONCERN TO ME, I THINK. >> IT TURNS OUT THE PERSON YOU'RE REFERRING TO HAD SOME REVOLUTIONARY, IN MEXICO, SOME REVOLUTIONARY ACTIVITIES AND WAS VERY ACTIVE IN THAT FREEDOM PUSH, OR WHATEVER IT WAS AT THE TIME. MIKE, AGAIN, I'VE GOT TO STAY WITH THIS, BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMS INTERESTING THAT, WHY WOULD PEOPLE GET SO WHIPPED UP ABOUT THIS? IS IT REALLY ABOUT GOVERNOR MARTINEZ? IF IT WAS SAY, BILL RICHARDSON, IN THE SAME SITUATION WHERE THERE WAS SORT OF A CLOUDY BACKGROUND, WOULD IT HAVE BEEN THAT BIG OF A DEAL AS A DEMOCRAT, AS A MALE DEMOCRAT? >> INTERESTING QUESTION.

RICHARDSON. HE CLAIMS A HISPANIC BACKGROUND. HIS MOTHER WAS MEXICAN, I BELIEVE, AND HIS FATHER WAS A UNITED STATES CITIZEN. AND WE KNOW ALL ABOUT BILL RICHARDSON. HE PUT IT BEHIND HIM QUICKLY. I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK -- I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHY PEOPLE ARE MAKING SUCH A BIG DEAL OUT OF THIS, AT ALL. I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK, RIGHT NOW, THE GOVERNOR HAS DISPLAYED ANY NATIONAL POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS, AND I'M NOT AT ALL SURE THAT SHE'S A BIG HELP, OR WOULD BE A BIG HELP AS A VICE-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE. THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO PLACE HER. I DON'T SEE THAT THAT'S A BIG HELP FOR ANY POTENTIAL REPUBLICAN. SO I'M NOT SURE WHY PEOPLE ARE WHIPPING ALL OF THIS UP. I REALLY DON'T. >> LET ME ASK YOU THIS. LET'S KIND OF CAST THIS NET A LITTLE BIT WIDER, THEN. WE'VE GOT HER SECOND FULL 30-DAY SESSION COMING UP, AND JOBS ARE CLEARLY THE ISSUE. AND GETTING AWAY FROM HER LINEAGE, IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER WHO CREATES JOBS,

WHAT LINEAGE YOU COME FROM. ARE YOU HEARING ENOUGH AT THIS POINT ABOUT A JOBS PROGRAM, OR HAVING A SENSE OF WHERE SHE WANTS TO GO ABOUT BUILDING JOBS IN THE STATE LEADING UP TO -- BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH TIME UNTIL THE SESSION. >> RIGHT. AND I THINK I'M HEARING EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO HEAR, WHICH IS THE GOVERNOR SAYING, STATE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T CREATE JOBS. THE PRIVATE INDUSTRY CREATES JOBS. AND WE NEED TO GET OUT OF THE WAY AND HAVE FAIR, STRAIGHT-FORWARD REGULATIONS THAT ANYBODY CAN UNDERSTAND. WE NEED TO HAVE REASONABLE TAX LAWS. WE NEED TO DECLARE NEW MEXICO OPEN FOR BUSINESS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE REALLY ARE. THAT'S HER JOBS PLAN, I BELIEVE, AND I THINK IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE HER JOBS PLAN. >> I'LL STAY WITH YOU ONE MORE TIME. I DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT A JOBS PLAN IN THERE. I HEARD ABOUT WHAT SHE DIDN'T WANT TO DO WITH REGULATIONS. BUT WHAT I'M ASKING SPECIFICALLY, IN SPECIFIC CATEGORIES OF BUSINESS, HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING THAT SAYS, WE'RE ON A CERTAIN TRACK TOWARDS -- >> YES. >> OKAY, TAKE THAT ONE. >> I HEARD THAT FROM MIKE, AND THAT IS, THAT WE'RE

OVERLY REGULATED. >> NO, THAT'S NOT A JOBS PLAN. >> SEE, GENE, IN YOUR MIND, IT'S NOT A JOBS PLAN, BECAUSE IN YOUR MIND, AND IN OTHER PEOPLE'S MINDS, AND I DON'T MEAN THIS AN ATTACK ON YOU, YOU GUYS ACTUALLY THINK GOVERNMENT CAN CREATE JOBS. GOVERNMENT CAN'T CREATE JOBS. GOVERNMENT CAN STIFLE JOBS. AND WHAT GOVERNMENT DOES DO IS, SURE, THEY CAN HIRE MORE EMPLOYEES, BUT THAT'S MORE BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYER. WHAT NEW MEXICO HAS TO DO IS FIND WAYS TO LOOSEN THE ENVIRONMENT, TO MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO COME HERE. THERE'S A REASON WHY TEXAS IS GROWING, COLORADO IS GROWING, ARIZONA IS GROWING, AND WE'RE NOT. THERE'S A REASON WHY JOBS ARE MOVING THERE, COMPANIES ARE MOVING THERE. THERE'S A REASON WHY SINCE SUSANA MARTINEZ GOT ELECTED, COMPANIES ARE STARTING TO COME TO NEW MEXICO. WHETHER IT'S THE TRAIN DEPOT, BECAUSE OF THE STUFF THAT THEY'RE DOING IN SANTA TERESA, OR THE MANUFACTURING PLANT THAT'S LEAVING EL PASO AND COMING TO SANTA TERESA. THAT'S BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THE JOBS PLAN IS IN PLACE. LESS GOVERNMENT, LET THEM DO THEIR JOBS. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT MIKE SAID, AND IT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS SAYING >> THERE IS A SIMPLE DIFFERENCE OBVIOUSLY IN THE WAY WE VIEW THIS. HE'S TALKING ABOUT PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS. OBVIOUSLY WE SUPPORT PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS. BUT TO SAY THAT GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CREATE ANY JOBS --

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYS HUGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE IN THIS STATE. EDUCATION IS ALL GOVERNMENT. ALL THE STATE AGENCIES ARE GOVERNMENT. LAW ENFORCEMENT IS GOVERNMENT. TO SAY THAT GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CREATE JOBS, OR HAS NO CONTROL OVER JOBS, THAT'S JUST A FALLACY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS VERSUS PUBLIC SECTOR JOBS. BUT OBVIOUSLY -- >> WHEN THE PUBLIC SECTOR CREATES JOBS, THE PRIVATE SECTOR LOSES JOBS. >> NEVERTHELESS, WHEN THERE'S PUBLIC SECTOR JOBS, THERE'S MONEY IN THE ECONOMY. THERE'S PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE ABILITY TO -- >> THERE'S MONEY. THERE'S TAXPAYER MONEY. >> THERE'S PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY THEIR MORTGAGE. >> TO PAY MORE TAXES TO PAY THEMSELVES. >> THEY ALSO PAY VENDORS THAT PROVIDE SERVICES TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR. THEY'RE ALSO EMPLOYING FOLKS. >> THEY WOULD BE EMPLOYING -- THEY WOULD BE DOING IT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. >> BUT THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY, I THINK, FOR PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS. I THINK TO LAURA'S POINT, THE PUBLIC SECTOR ECONOMY DOES CONTRIBUTE -- OR THE PUBLIC SECTOR DOES CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY, RATHER. AND I ACTUALLY WANTED TO PUSH BACK ON A POINT THAT YOU MADE AROUND PRIVATE SECTOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. THERE WAS ACTUALLY A PIECE PUBLISHED IN THE WASHINGTON POST SEVERAL DAYS AGO THAT OUTLINED THIS LANDMARK SURVEY THAT ESSENTIALLY SAID

THAT DE-REGULATION IS NOT NECESSARILY THE ANSWER TO GROW THE PRIVATE SECTOR. THAT ACTUALLY -- AND I'D BE HAPPY TO SEND THE ARTICLE TO YOU, DAN. >> BUT WHAT MAKES THAT THE END ALL DEAL? THE FACTS ARE THAT THE GROWTH IS IN THE -- >> IT'S A LANDMARK STUDY. >> BUT THE FACTS ARE THAT IN RIGHT-TO-WORK STATES WHERE WE DON'T HAVE THESE PROBLEMS, THE ECONOMY IS GROWING. YOU CAN WRITE ANY ARTICLE YOU WANT, IT'S GROWING IN PLACES LIKE THAT. IT IS NOT GROWING IN STATES WHERE THERE IS A HUGE UNION STRANGLEHOLD. THAT'S THE FACTS. >> TIME-OUT GUYS. I JUST READ ABOUT MASSACHUSETTS. THEIR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS ABOUT 7.3%. BIG UNION STATE. ECONOMY IS STARTING TO THRIVE. JOBS ARE HAPPENING. PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS. I'M STILL ASKING, AND I'LL PUT THIS TO STEPHANIE, A PLAN VERSUS -- ALL RIGHT, YOU CAN HAVE LESSER REGULATIONS. THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S PART OF A PROPOSAL. BUT WHEN YOU START CUTTING INTO SPECIFIC SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY, HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING THAT GIVES YOU SOME SENSE OF, WE'VE GOT SOME PLAN COMING UP FOR THE LEGISLATURE? >> NOT FROM THE GOVERNOR,

NO, I HAVEN'T. I HAVE FROM CERTAIN ADVOCATES. OF COMMERCE ACTUALLY IS SUPPORTING A WHOLE SLATE OF GOOD POLICY MEASURES THAT COULD ACTUALLY STIMULATE THE PRIVATE SECTOR WITH REGARDS TO SMALL BUSINESSES. YOU KNOW, DEVELOPMENT TAX CREDITS FOR SMALL BUSINESSES. I THINK, ALSO, LEVELING THE PLAYING FIELD. I THINK EVEN SOME REPUBLICANS AGREE THAT WE NEED TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES BY CLOSING OUT-OF-STATE CORPORATE TAX LOOPHOLES. WE REALLY NEED TO START STIMULATING THE 71% OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR ECONOMY THAT IS PRIVATE SMALL BUSINESSES. >> I AGREE WITH STEPHANIE ABOUT THE GOVERNOR HAS HAD NO PLAN OF THAT SORT. AND I'M GOING TO SAY, THANKS. I'M GLAD OF THAT. THAT'S A GOOD THING. WE DON'T NEED GOVERNMENT PICKING WINNERS AND LOSERS. WE DON'T NEED THE GOVERNMENT PUTTING ITS THUMB ON THE SCALES ALL THE TIME. WE DON'T NEED PRIVATE SECTOR -- >> BUT SHE'S TAKING LARGE CORPORATIONS. >> WHAT WE NEED IS FREEDOM. THIS STATE NEEDS MORE ECONOMIC FREEDOM. WITHOUT ECONOMIC FREEDOM, WE'LL BE FALLING FURTHER AND FURTHER BEHIND OUR NEIGHBORS

THAT DAN LISTED; ARIZONA, COLORADO, AND TEXAS. THE FIRST THING WE SHOULD ASK OURSELVES REGARDING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN NEW MEXICO IS, WHAT WOULD TEXAS DO? BECAUSE THEY'RE OUR COMPETITOR. THEY'RE THE ONES THAT WE HAVE TO BEAT BACK. >> IS IT FAIR TO SAY THEY WOULD PERHAPS, LAURA, ACCEPT, LIKE TEXAS, MORE GOVERNMENT MONEY? THEY'VE BEEN CLEANING UP WITH FEDERAL MONEY, IT SEEMS TO ME, AND THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF RICK PERRY'S BRAGGING ABOUT JOBS IS COMING FROM. IT'S FROM THE GOVERNMENT, FROM FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MONEY. >> FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, RIGHT. EVERYBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT NOT HAVING GOVERNMENT BUSINESS, NOT EVERYBODY IS CONSERVATIVE, NOT HAVING GOVERNMENT IN BUSINESS WHEN IT COMES TO ACTUAL LIKE SPENDING IN TERMS OF NATIONAL FUNDING, OR NATIONAL JOBS, EVEN. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT. YOU KNOW, THAT STIMULATES OUR ECONOMY HERE IN NEW MEXICO. >> I'M NOT FOR THAT EITHER, BY THE WAY. >> OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. WE'LL PUT YOU DOWN FOR THAT. IN ANY EVENT, THERE WAS A FORUM EARLIER TODAY, ACTUALLY, AND WE'RE TAPING ON THURSDAY, WITH THE GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATOR AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. HE CAME INTO TOWN TO ALBUQUERQUE TO HOLD A SERIES OF SMALL BUSINESS MEETINGS.

I'M ACTUALLY WEARING A PIN FROM SACRED POWER, WHO RECENTLY WON AN AWARD FOR GREEN JOBS IN NEW YORK, A NATIONAL AWARD FOR THE NUMBER OF JOBS THAT THEY'RE CREATING. WHETHER YOU LABEL THEM GREEN OR NOT, THEY'RE JOBS, AND THEY'RE STIMULATING THE ECONOMY. AND I THINK THAT THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR GOVERNMENT TO ASSIST IN TERMS OF SMALL BUSINESSES. BUT YOU HAVE TO BASICALLY -- I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PROVIDE INCENTIVES FOR NEW EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES. >> INTERESTING. LAST POINT THERE. WE'RE BACK IN A MOMENT WITH CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM. >> WE'VE GOT THIS INDUSTRY THAT GREW -- YOU KNOW, THEY BUILT THEIR CHURCH ON A FOUNDATION OF SAND. THEY WENT OUT AND SAID, WE'RE JUST GOING TO KEEP MOVING MONEY, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP BORROWING MONEY, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP GIVING YOU MONEY. YOU STATED INCOME, STATED VALUE, AND NOW IT'S COME TO A HEAD. NOW ALL THESE GUYS THAT GOT INTO THIS FIELD, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A JOB. AND I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A JOB FOR A LONG TIME, BECAUSE I THINK WE HAVE MORE HOMES ON THE MARKET TODAY THAN WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT CAN BUY, OR WANT TO BUY TODAY. AND I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE THAT PROBLEM FOR QUITE

SOME TIME. >> EARLIER, WE CALLED THE 1ST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT RACE BETWEEN MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, MARTY CHAVEZ AND ERIC GRIEGO "CURIOUSLY CLOSE." OF COURSE, NOT A SINGLE VOTE HAS BEEN CAST IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MONEY RACE. ALL THREE CANDIDATES REPORTED MORE THAN $150,000 ON HAND NEARLY EIGHT MONTHS BEFORE DEMOCRATS PICK THEIR STANDARD-BEARER. THAT'S AN IMPRESSIVE TOTAL. NMIF CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND JOINS US WITH THE FINAL INTERVIEW IN OUR THREE-PART SERIES. HERE NOW, MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM. >> THE ELECTED OFFICE WE WANT TO START TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS NOT THE 1ST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT THAT STATE SENATE SEAT IN DISTRICT 21. >> ALL RIGHT. >> THAT'S THE ONE VACATED BY KENT CRAVENS, AND IT'S A SOLIDLY REPUBLICAN SEAT. AS BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSIONER, YOU NOMINATED AND APPOINTED A DEMOCRAT, LISA CURTIS, TO REPLACE HIM. HOW DOES THAT REFLECT THE WILL OF THE VOTERS IN THAT DISTRICT? >> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO THOSE VOTERS ARE GOING TO GET A CHANCE TO EITHER ELECT

LISA CURTIS, OR SOME OTHER CANDIDATE OF THEIR CHOICE. I THINK IT'S A BIT PREMATURE TO DETERMINE EXACTLY WHAT THOSE VOTERS WANT. WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR WAS SOMEONE WITH HIGH QUALIFICATIONS, SOMEBODY WHO REPRESENTED THAT THEY WERE TALKING TO THE VOTERS OF THEIR DISTRICT. THAT WAS VERY MEANINGFUL AND IMPORTANT TO ME. AND I WISH HER GREAT SUCCESS, AND IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT THIS IS SOMEONE WHO REALLY WANTS TO RUN AND REPRESENT THAT DISTRICT, AND I THINK WE OUGHT TO GIVE HER THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. AND I ALSO FELT STRONGLY ABOUT SUPPORTING OUR SISTER COUNTY, SANDOVAL COUNTY, IN THAT REGARD. >> YOU GUYS WEREN'T JUST POKING A STICK AT THE GOVERNOR THERE BY SENDING HER A DEMOCRAT? >> NO. THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER THINGS THAT WE COULD DO THAT. NO, WE REALLY INTEND -- THIS IS A VERY PROFESSIONAL BODY. I'M ACTUALLY VERY IMPRESSED BY THE COUNTY COMMISSION. WHEN I WAS IN STATE GOVERNMENT, WE GAVE LOTS OF MONIES TO THE COUNTY, AND I REALLY WAS NEVER CLEAR ABOUT THE COMMISSION AND THE POLICY-MAKING ASPECTS. AND I'LL TELL YOU, IT'S A TOUGH JOB. IT'S A MEANINGFUL JOB. AND WE REALLY WANT -- THERE ARE SOME GREAT QUALIFIED CANDIDATES, AND THAT'S WHAT

WE WANT TO SEE. WE WANT FOLKS BEFORE US, AND WE WANT TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT PROFESSIONALISM, ACCOUNTABILITY, AND TRANSPARENCY. I FELT GOOD ABOUT IT. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED ON THE COMMISSION? >> YOU KNOW, THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION, BECAUSE WE'VE DONE SOME GREAT STUFF. I THINK THE ACCOUNTABILITY, THE NEW LEADERSHIP, THE TRANSPARENCY IN GOVERNMENT IS LONG OVERDUE. AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT MY CONSTITUENTS ARE VERY GRATEFUL. BUT I ALSO FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THE IMPORTANT WORK THAT WE ARE DOING IN HEALTH CARE. WE'RE LOOKING AT BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, AND IMPROVING THE CORRECTIONS SYSTEM. I THINK THAT THIS WHOLE NEW LEADERSHIP, PROFESSIONALISM ASPECT, IS MAKING A DIFFERENCE FOR CONSTITUENTS EVERY DAY. >> IS THERE ONE SPECIFIC VOTE, OR ONE SPECIFIC THING THAT YOU'VE DONE? >> WELL, THERE ARE SEVERAL, BUT I'LL TELL YOU SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME, IS THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING TO PROTECT PREGNANT WOMEN AND THEIR CHILDREN, AND MAKE SURE THAT THEIR BEHAVIORAL HEALTH AND DRUG ADDICTION TREATMENT CONTINUES. AND I'M REALLY PROUD OF THAT WORK. AND IT'S ALSO WORK THAT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO MY DISTRICT.

THE REASON I THINK THAT IS USEFUL AND CRITICAL IS IT'S AN INDICATION THAT WE ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS THAT PEOPLE HAVE EVERY DAY IN THIS COUNTY, AND I FEEL GREAT ABOUT THAT. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF OTHER LOCAL ISSUES. DO YOU SUPPORT MAYOR BERRY'S PLAN TO POUR MONEY INTO THE PASEO INTERCHANGE THERE ON I-25? >> WELL, I MIGHT DISAGREE MONEY. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE'VE GOT LEADERSHIP AT THE CITY RECOGNIZING THAT PASEO IS A MAJOR TRANSPORTATION SEGUE BETWEEN THE EASTERN AND WESTERN PARTS OF THE CITY AND THE COUNTY THAT HAS TO GET FIXED. QUITE FRANKLY, IT'S A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE, AS WELL AS A TRANSPORTATION DYNAMIC THAT NEEDS TO GET RESOLVED. WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IS SPENDING THAT MONEY RIGHT NOW. WE NEED THE MONEY FOR JOBS. I THINK THAT WE COULD DO THE PLANNING AND DO IT A SEGMENT AT THE TIME, AND I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN DO THAT WITHOUT OVERSPENDING. ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS FOR STARTING AND THEN WAITING, AND THEN STARTING AND WAITING, IS THAT IT COSTS MORE. IF YOU DO IT RIGHT, AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF FABULOUS

PLANNERS WHO CAN SHOW US HOW TO DO THAT, WE CAN START AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE IMPROVING THE PUBLIC SAFETY ASPECTS RIGHT NOW. >> SPEAKING OF PUBLIC SAFETY, WE HAVE THIS FUEL SPILL OVER AT KIRTLAND. IT'S NOT CLEANED UP. IF YOU ARE ELECTED TO CONGRESS, WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN? >> I WOULD HAVE A WHOLE SPEED-THIS-PROCESS-UP. ONE, I'M NOT A SCIENTIST, BUT I'VE GOTTEN LOTS OF INFORMATION. THERE'S LOTS OF CONCERN THAT THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE USED FOR TESTING FOR A DECADE IS INSUFFICIENT TO IDENTIFY WHERE WE HAVE WATER QUALITY ISSUES, AND OF COURSE THAT PLUME IS SPREADING. FOR ME, WHILE WE'RE MONITORING, I WANT TO SEE AS MUCH ACTION TOWARDS CLEANING UP THAT SITE, AND I THINK CONGRESS HAS GOT TO HAVE MORE ACCOUNTABILITY, AND MORE DEDICATED REVENUES FOR THAT PARTICULAR SITE. I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. AND I FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE COUNTY AND THE WATER AUTHORITY'S INVOLVEMENT HERE. BUT ALONE, IT'S INSUFFICIENT TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS HERE, AND I THINK CONGRESS HAS GOT TO TAKE A MORE DIRECT ROLE. >> LAST TIME YOU RAN FOR

THE SEAT, YOU RAN AGAINST MARTIN HEINRICH AND REBECCA VIGIL GIRON, AND YOU FINISHED LAST AMONG THOSE THREE. WHAT LESSON DO YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THAT FINISH? >> SPEND MORE TIME WITH THE VOTERS. AND THAT'S THE THING I LOVE THE BEST, IS MEETING WITH FOLKS, GETTING INVOLVED IN THEIR COMMUNITY. BUT ELECTIONS ARE TOUGH, AND BEING A CANDIDATE IS TOUGH. AND IT'S VERY EASY TO GET INSIDE THE PROFESSIONAL ASPECTS OF THE CAMPAIGN, ITSELF, AND FORGET THAT THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WANT TO IMPRESS, THAT WHOSE VOTES THAT YOU ARE WORKING TO EARN, THAT YOU'VE GOT TO GET OUT AND MEET THEM. AND THAT'S A LESSON I LEARNED. AND IN MY COUNTY COMMISSION RACE, WHERE I HAD A VERY HEALTHY WIN IN BOTH A CONTESTED DIFFICULT PRIMARY, AND IN A GENERAL, I TOOK THAT LESSON WITH ME. I WAS OUT IN THE COMMUNITY A LOT, EVERY DAY. AND I'LL DO THE SAME THING IN THIS CAMPAIGN. >> HOW DO YOU THINK HEINRICH HAS BEEN DOING? >> YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING REALLY WONDERFUL ABOUT CONGRESSMAN HEINRICH, IS THAT HE INVOLVED ME IN

HIS GENERAL ELECTION, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS VERY APPROPRIATE AND WARM, BECAUSE IT'S A PARTNERSHIP ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT WE CARE ABOUT. HE ENGAGED ME AS A CONGRESSMAN, AND I APPRECIATE THAT, AS WELL. I THINK THAT HE WORKED HARD ON SOME COMMUNITY HEALTH AND PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUES. HE'S STRONG ON BEHAVIORAL HEALTH. AND I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE HEALTH ISSUES, PARTICULARLY IN BERNALILLO COUNTY, THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT WORK. AND I THINK HE'S DONE A GOOD JOB, AND I WISH HIM WELL IN THIS CONTEST. >> HOW DO YOU THINK YOU COULD DO BETTER? WHAT THINGS DO YOU THINK YOU COULD IMPROVE UPON THAT HE'S DONE? >> WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO SAY IMPROVE, BUT MAYBE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS REALLY CRITICAL, PARTICULARLY NOW WITH THE ISSUES THAT WE'RE FACING, IS WE NEED MORE FOLKS ON THE GROUND, MORE CONSTITUENT SERVICES AND MORE ADVOCACY. SO WHILE WE HAVE THESE DEBATES IN WASHINGTON THAT I THINK PARALYZE ANY OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY MOVE

THE ECONOMY FORWARD, TO DEAL WITH EDUCATION REFORMS, TO DEAL WITH HEALTH CARE REFORMS, AND A MULTITUDE OF OTHER CRITICAL ISSUES, YOU NEED FOLKS ON THE GROUND WHO ARE ADVOCATING HERE WITH THE LEGISLATURE AND LOCAL BODIES OF GOVERNMENT, WHO ARE WORKING WITH CONSTITUENTS IN A MUCH BROADER CAPACITY, AND POTENTIALLY NOT JUST IN YOUR DISTRICT, BUT LOOKING AT STATEWIDE EFFORTS TO IMPROVE THE ECONOMY. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M GOING TO DO AS A CONGRESSWOMAN. I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK MAKES YOU DIFFERENT AND BETTER THAN YOUR PRIMARY OPPONENTS? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A PRETTY DIVERSE EXPERIENCE. I'M A NEWLY ELECTED OFFICIAL. I'VE GOT MORE THAN 20 YEARS FIGHTING AND BEING A CHAMPION FOR VULNERABLE POPULATIONS. I'M A BUSINESS WOMAN, SO I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO MAKE THE PAYROLL EVERY MONTH. I'M A WIDOW. I WAS A CAREGIVER FOR MY FATHER, AND I'M A CURRENT CAREGIVER FOR MY MOTHER. AND A SINGLE MOTHER OF TWO LOVELY CHILDREN. THAT MAKES ME UNIQUELY

QUALIFIED BOTH PROFESSIONALLY AND PERSONALLY, BECAUSE I'M FACING THE ISSUES THAT PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH EACH AND EVERY DAY. AND I THINK THOSE UNIQUE QUALIFICATIONS MAKE YOU BETTER AT REPRESENTING AND CHANGING AND SOLVING PROBLEMS AT A NATIONAL LEVEL. >> I THINK THE GUYS WERE SURPRISED BY HOW MUCH MONEY YOU'VE RAISED. YOU'VE RAKED IN QUITE A HAUL, AND IT WAS AN IMPRESSIVE SHOWING FOR SO EARLY IN THE CAMPAIGN. HOW DO YOU THINK YOU CAN KEEP THAT UP? IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, PARTICULARLY IN THESE ECONOMIC TIMES. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M TENACIOUS. I THINK I'VE GOT A VERY SOLID RECORD. I THINK PEOPLE KNOW THAT. I'M RECOGNIZED AS SOMEBODY WHO WILL WORK TO CELEBRATE SOLUTIONS. AND I THINK FOLKS ARE READY TO INVEST IN THAT. AND I HAVE TO SAY, I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT FUNDRAISING EFFORT, AND I'M GRATEFUL TO THE FOLKS WHO HAVE INVESTED IN ME. >> GRIEGO TOLD US THAT HE HAD TO RAISE A LOT OF HIS MONEY OUT OF STATE BECAUSE THERE'S JUST A LIMITED POT HERE. ARE YOU RAISING MONEY OUT OF STATE, AS WELL? >> OF COURSE.

BUT I'M ALSO REALLY PROUD OF THE FACT THAT THE BULK OF THE INVESTMENTS FOR ME ARE FROM FOLKS HERE AND FROM THIS DISTRICT, WHO ARE INVESTING IN MY RACE, IN MY CAMPAIGN, IN MY CANDIDACY. >> DO YOU THINK WE NEED MORE WOMEN IN CONGRESS? >> I DO, UNEQUIVOCALLY. WE SET STANDARDS WHEN WE'RE SETTING UP DEMOCRACIES, AND IT'S NOT ENOUGH. THE STANDARD THAT WE SET AROUND THE WORLD IS THAT AT LEAST 25% OF THAT POLICY-MAKING AND LEADERSHIP SHOULD BE WOMEN. AND YET, 17% IS WHAT WE HAVE IN CONGRESS TODAY. AND THE LAST ELECTION CYCLE, IN FACT, WE LOST POSITIONS FOR WOMEN. AND ANOTHER DYNAMIC, WE HAVE VERY FEW WOMEN OF COLOR. I THINK IT'S REALLY CRITICAL THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO REPRESENT THOSE ISSUES, THAT WE'RE GOING TO RAISE FOLKS OUT OF POVERTY, THAT WE'RE GOING TO RECOGNIZE THE UNIQUE ISSUES THAT WOMEN FACE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE MORE REPRESENTATION BY WOMEN IN THESE LEADERSHIP POSITIONS. >> WHICH WOMEN IN CONGRESS DO YOU ADMIRE? >> YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TON. SOMETHING THAT'S NEAR AND

DEAR TO MY HEART, THOUGH, IS CONGRESSWOMAN GIFFORDS. SHE EMBODIES FOR ME SUCH INCREDIBLE STRENGTH, THE KIND OF TENACITY, THAT COMMITMENT TO PUBLIC SERVICE IN THE FACE OF INCREDIBLE OBSTACLES. THAT'S THE KIND OF REPUTATION THAT I WANT. NOTHING GETS YOU DOWN. YOU MOVE FORWARD. YOU FOCUS ON YOUR CONSTITUENTS, AND THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE INCREDIBLE WOMEN. I MEAN, ELIZABETH WARREN. THERE ARE SOME INCREDIBLE WOMEN AND GREAT ROLE MODELS. AND I HOPE TO JOIN THOSE RANKS VERY SOON. >> WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU SHOULD BE THERE AS A DEMOCRATIC WOMAN? >> YOU KNOW, BEING A DEMOCRAT HAS BEEN VERY IMPORTANT TO ME JUST BECAUSE OF THE SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES, WHICH I ALSO THINK FALL TO WOMEN IN A MORE SIGNIFICANT WAY. WE'RE RAISING OUR CHILDREN, WE'RE CARING FOR OUR ELDERLY PARENTS, WE ARE IN THE

WORKFORCE, WE'RE OFTEN THE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE BETWEEN HAVING ANY INCOME IN THE FAMILY, WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO KEEP OUR KIDS SAFE AND IN SCHOOL. THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF ISSUES THAT AMERICANS ARE FACING, THAT NEW MEXICANS ARE FACING, EVERY DAY. THAT PERSPECTIVE BY WOMEN, CAREGIVING, WORKING, MANAGING THE HOUSEHOLD, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE ENDS MEET, I WOULD SAY THAT THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THAT CONGRESS NEEDS TO START PAYING ATTENTION TO. IT'S THOSE FOLKS, AND IT'S THOSE ISSUES, AND I THINK WOMEN CAN REPRESENT THEM BECAUSE THEY LIVE THEM. >> IF YOU WIN THIS PRIMARY, SAY YOUR OPPONENT IN THE GENERAL IS JANICE ARNOLD JONES, HOW WILL YOU CONVINCE VOTERS THAT YOU'RE THE BETTER CANDIDATE IN THE GENERAL? >> WELL, NUMBER ONE, I PUT PEOPLE BEFORE POLITICS. I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE FORMER REPRESENTATIVE, BUT I'M FOCUSED ON THOSE VULNERABLE, THOSE COMMUNITIES WHO ARE DISADVANTAGED, WHO HAVEN'T HAD A VOICE, AND I WANT TO REPRESENT THOSE FOLKS. I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES AND THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES. THEY'RE FOCUSED ON MAKING

SURE THAT THERE IS MORE ATTENTION TO WORKING FAMILIES AND THE MIDDLE CLASS, AND LESS ON SPECIAL INTERESTS AND CORPORATE POWERS. AND I THINK THOSE ARE STILL GOING TO BE VERY IMPORTANT DIVIDING LINES BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES. AND I THINK THAT IF WE DON'T DEAL WITH THAT, YOU CAN'T MOVE THE ECONOMY FORWARD AND BRING JOBS IN THE WAY THAT IS MEANINGFUL AND SUSTAINABLE. >> YOU KNOW, THIS WEEK WE HAD SOME NEWS OF ANOTHER FEDERAL INVESTIGATION INTO BILL RICHARDSON AND SOME FUNDRAISING ACTIVITIES. YOU WERE HIS SECRETARY OF HEALTH, AND WORKED WITH HIM FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. DO YOU THINK YOU'LL FEEL THE NEED TO DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM HIM, ESPECIALLY IF YOU GET INTO THE GENERAL? >> YOU KNOW, I WORKED FOR THREE GOVERNORS, AND I THINK THAT FOLKS REMEMBER THAT. THAT I WORKED IN A BIPARTISAN 17-YEAR APPOINTED ENVIRONMENT. AND I PROBABLY SHOULD CHECK THESE FACTS, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY ELSE HAS EVER DONE THAT. AND I DID THAT BECAUSE I WAS VERY FOCUSED ON SERVING MY CONSTITUENTS, AND NOT ALLOWING SPECIAL INTERESTS

OR POLITICS TO ERODE THAT DEDICATED CORE WORK. AND I THINK THAT'S THE REPUTATION THAT GETS ME INTO CONGRESS THROUGH THE GENERAL. >> BEING A SECRETARY, A CABINET SECRETARY, IS A VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF ROLE FROM BEING A MEMBER, ONE OF HUNDREDS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. HOW DO YOU THINK YOU'LL HAVE TO ADJUST YOUR WORKING STYLE TO MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF IN THAT BODY? >> YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, IT IS DIFFERENT. I'M IN A LEGISLATIVE BODY, OR A LEGISLATIVE POSITION NOW AS A COUNTY COMMISSIONER, AND ABSOLUTELY IT'S DIFFERENT THAN BEING THE EXECUTIVE MANAGER AND POLICY SETTER IN THAT REGARD. BUT THE WAY I'M GOING TO OPERATE DIFFERENTLY IS, EARLIER IN OUR INTERVIEW WE TALKED ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT I WOULD HAVE HERE ON THE GROUND. YOU KNOW, WHILE YOU'RE WORKING ON THESE VERY LOOMING, LARGE PROBLEMS ON THE BELTWAY, YOU BETTER FIND A WAY TO COME BACK HERE AT HOME AND SOLVE THE PROBLEMS HERE THAT YOUR CONSTITUENTS ARE FACING, BECAUSE THEY

CAN'T WAIT ANOTHER SINGLE MINUTE. AND THAT'S THE KIND OF WORK THAT I DID AS A CABINET SECRETARY, AND THAT'S THE KIND OF WORK THAT I'LL TAKE TO WASHINGTON. I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION. I THINK WE TRIED TOO HARD TO BE ALL OF ONE AND NONE OF THE OTHER. LET'S RIGHT SIZE THAT EFFORT, AND THAT'S HOW I'LL BE DIFFERENT IN CONGRESS. >> IN TERMS OF LISTENING TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT FOLKS ARE THINKING RIGHT NOW, IS THERE A MESSAGE THAT YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THE OCCUPY WALL STREET PROTESTS? >> ABSOLUTELY. AND I CAN REALLY RELATE THAT TO HEALTH CARE. YOU KNOW, I DO PRO BONO HEALTH CARE NAVIGATION EVERY DAY FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO STILL HAVE MY CELLPHONE NUMBER FROM MY CABINET SECRETARY AND ADVOCACY DAYS. AND BY THE TIME THEY REACH ME, THEY ARE FRUSTRATED AND EXHAUSTED AND BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE NOWHERE ELSE TO GO. THEY'VE LOST THEIR BENEFITS. THEY'RE ABOUT TO LOSE THEIR HOUSE. THEY HAVE TO HAVE SURGERY. THEY CAN'T AFFORD THEIR MEDICATION. AND WHEN YOU REACH THAT LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION, YOU NEED SOMEBODY TO PAY ATTENTION, AND I THINK IT'S

A VERY IMPORTANT RESOUNDING MESSAGE ACROSS THE COUNTRY. PEOPLE ARE AT THE END OF THEIR ROPES, AND THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT ANY OF US ARE TAKING THAT SERIOUSLY. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD TO SEE, THAT IT IS TIME THAT WE FOCUS DOMESTICALLY, SPEND OUR RESOURCES HERE, LIFT PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY IN THE UNITED STATES, CREATE JOBS, HAVE MORE AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS, AND REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE HERE. AND THAT'S REALLY HOW, I THINK, WE HELP THE REST OF THE WORLD, BY FOCUSING ON THE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T WAIT, NOT ONE MORE DAY, FOR OUR EFFORTS TO IMPROVE THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE. >> MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. >> ABSOLUTELY, GWYNETH. THANK YOU. >> I THINK TAKING MONEY OUT OF POLITICS IS A GOOD THING. I MEAN, I THINK THE VOTERS OVERWHELMINGLY AGREE THAT IT'S NECESSARY. I MEAN, IT PASSED IN 2005 IN ALBUQUERQUE BY ALMOST 70%, AND IN SANTA FE BY NEARLY 65%. SO I THINK WE NEED TO LISTEN TO THE VOTERS ON THIS ONE. >> LOOK AT THE PRC. I MEAN, IT CLEANED IT UP REALLY WELL. I MEAN, JEROME BLOCK IS A

PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE THAT MONEY IN THERE. >> WE ARE IN GRIM TIMES FOR HOMEBUILDERS. NEW MEXICO FORECLOSURES WERE UP 75% LAST MONTH, FLOODING THE MARKET WITH EXISTING HOMES AND PUTTING PRESSURE ON BUILDERS TO CUT COSTS AND POTENTIALLY CORNERS. THIS WEEK INDICATE AMERICANS ARE MORE LIKELY THAN EVER TO STAY PUT. LESS THAN 12% OF US MOVED LAST YEAR. THAT'S ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANT. THAT'S THE LOWEST NUMBER IN MORE THAN SIXTY YEARS. STEPH, LET ME START WITH YOU. ONE OF THE OTHER -- I WAS READING A LOT THIS WEEK ABOUT THIS ISSUE. THIS IS SO FASCINATING TO ME. ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT'S KEEPING HOME SALES FROM HAPPENING IS COUPLES, YOUNG COUPLES, ARE NOT COUPLING. THEY'RE ACTUALLY -- THERE'S A TERM FOR THIS, I FORGET WHAT IT IS, BUT THERE'S A TERM FOR THIS. WE'RE ACTUALLY JUST STAYING IN HOMES THAT RENT, OR LIVING IN A GROUP SITUATION WITH OTHER FOLKS THE SAME AGE, THAT KIND OF THING. BUT SPECIFICALLY FOR ALBUQUERQUE, WE ARE REALLY A ROOFTOP INDUSTRY CULTURE, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT

HERE. SO GOES CONSTRUCTION, SO GOES ALBUQUERQUE, WE USED TO TALK ABOUT HERE. IS IT TIME TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THAT? BECAUSE IT MAY NOT COME BACK >> NO, IT WON'T. I THINK THIS IS ACTUALLY A JOBS ISSUE. I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE HOUSING MARKET, WE HAVE TO ALSO BE TALKING ABOUT UNEMPLOYMENT, AND HOW THERE'S A LOT OF SLOW GROWTH GOING IN TERMS OF EMPLOYMENT. PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO BUY HOMES UNTIL THEY FEEL SECURE IN THEIR JOBS, UNTIL THEY HAVE A JOB. AND SO UNTIL WE CAN -- YOU KNOW, WE TALKED A LOT IN THE LAST SEGMENT ABOUT CREATING JOBS, AND UNTIL WE FIGURE OUT A STATE PLAN AND A NATIONAL PLAN FOR JOB CREATION, I THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE A REAL SLOW HOUSING MARKET, AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S UNFORTUNATE. BUT IT IS SORT OF THE NATURE OF THE BEAST. >> ABSOLUTELY. MIKE, IT'S INTERESTING, IT'S DIFFICULT FOR TWO FOLKS. IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO BUY A HOME, WHERE'S BOTTOM, RIGHT? YOU DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A HOUSE IF, IN FACT, A QUARTER LATER IT'S GOING TO BE WORTH LESS THAN WHEN YOU BOUGHT IT. SO EVERYONE'S SORT OF WAITING THAT WAY. AND IF YOU'RE SELLING A HOME, IT'S DIFFICULT TO PRICE. SO IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT

SITUATION FOR REAL ESTATE >> THE LAST TIME I LOOKED, YOU CAN'T SELL A HOME IF NOBODY IS BUYING. SO THOSE ARE TWO SIDES OF THE CAME COIN. AND THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY IS A BIG, BIG PROBLEM FOR NEW MEXICO. WE LOST, OH, 15% OF THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY IN 2007, AND WE LOST ANOTHER 7% IN 2008, AND IT'S A DISASTER. THERE'S A DEPRESSION IN THAT INDUSTRY. OF COURSE, WE HAVE BOOM TIMES, AND THE REASON WE HAVE BOOM TIMES IS BECAUSE THE MORTGAGE FINANCE INDUSTRY, AS A WHOLE, PUMPED MONEY INTO HOUSES LIKE THEY WERE GOING OUT OF STYLE. SO WE ENDED UP WITH A LOT OF FRESH CONSTRUCTION. WE'VE GOT A LOT MORE HOUSES OUT THERE THAN WE REALLY NEED, AND THE SUPPLY IS HUGE. THE SUPPLY OF OWNER OCCUPIED STUFF IS HUGE. THERE'S LIKE A 10.8 MONTH INVENTORY, THAT WAS A YEAR AGO IN OCTOBER. AND NOW THERE'S ABOUT AN EIGHT MONTH INVENTORY OF

HOMES FOR SALE IN ALBUQUERQUE. IT'S TOUGH TO MAKE A LIVING WHEN THE TURNOVER IN HOUSES IS THAT SMALL. SO THE REAL ESTATE AGENTS ARE IN TROUBLE AND, YOU KNOW, THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY PEOPLE ARE IN TROUBLE. IT'S A TOUGH TIME TO BE BUILDING. BUT THERE WERE GOOD TIMES, TOO, FOR YEARS AND YEARS PUMPED BY LOTS OF FEDERAL MONEY FROM A LOT OF PLACES. >> SURE. LAURA, THE MEDIAN PRICE IS DROPPING, THE AVERAGE PRICE IS DROPPING, THINGS ARE DROPPING. WHAT'S IT GOING TO TAKE FOR PEOPLE TO START BUYING? AS MIKE SAID, IT'S TWO SIDES TO THE SAME COIN. WHEN IS GOOD ENOUGH THAT WE CAN START SEEING SOME ACTIVITY, FOR GOSH SAKE? >> I AGREE WITH WHAT BASICALLY, WE SEE THESE TRENDS, AND PEOPLE STILL NOT PURCHASING DESPITE THE PRICES DROPPING BECAUSE -- >> AND THE INTEREST RATES ARE PRETTY GOOD. >> RIGHT. THERE'S STILL INSECURITY IN TERMS OF JOBS. JOB SECURITY IS A HUGE CONCERN FOR PEOPLE. AND I THINK EVEN IF INTEREST RATES DROP, THERE'S STILL CREDIT WORTHINESS THAT'S THE PROBLEM. AS LOW AS INTEREST RATES COULD GET, IF PEOPLE STILL DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY, IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE

CREDIT WORTHINESS TO BE ABLE TO OBTAIN A MORTGAGE, THEN IT'S NOT GOING TO MATTER HOW LOW THOSE INTEREST RATES ARE. >> I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, BECAUSE THAT WAS A PART OF DODD FRANK, THIS TIGHTENING UP THE RULES ABOUT WHO CAN QUALIFY TO GET CREDIT OR NOT, AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO TAKE A BIT OF A DIFFERENT LOOK AT THAT, AND STARTING TO TALK ABOUT SOME THINGS LIKE RELIEF FROM PRINCIPAL, SOMEWHAT RADICAL IDEAS TO GET THIS THING MOVING AGAIN. HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING THAT GIVE YOU ANY IDEAS? >> NOT YET. BUT I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO LOOK, IS TO START TO LOOSEN SOME OF THOSE REGULATIONS. I THINK THAT THIS IS SIMILAR TO WHAT I SAW LAST YEAR WITH THIS FEDERAL PROGRAM TO TRY TO HELP BANKS, LOCAL COMMUNITY BANKS. IT WASN'T A PROGRAM, IT WAS AN INITIATIVE TO TRY TO GET LOCAL COMMUNITY BANKS MORE FUNDING TO TRY TO LEND THEM OUT, TO LEND OUT MORE MONEY. THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, YOU STILL HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUSINESSES THAT MAY NOT BE CREDIT WORTHY IN ORDER TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THOSE LOANS. SAME KIND OF SITUATION HERE. SO RECENTLY, THERE WAS SOME LARGE AMOUNT, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS, BUT SOME FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OBAMA SIGNED IN ORDER TO GET BASICALLY MORE PEOPLE INTO LOWER INTEREST MORTGAGES, HOPING TO HAVE MORE

DISPOSABLE CASH ON A MONTHLY BASIS AND SO FORTH, AND THE PROBLEM IS, THAT ONLY APPLIED TO, WHAT IS IT, FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC TYPE LOANS. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T MEET THOSE QUALIFICATIONS, WHO AREN'T ABLE -- >> AND PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENT. >> THAT'S RIGHT, WHO ARE CURRENT AND MIGHT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT. SO WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT POLICIES THAT ARE NOT ADDRESSING THE LARGER AND THE BIGGER MIDDLE CLASS PORTION OF INCOME, AND THAT HAS A HUGE EFFECT ON OUR BOTTOM LINE ECONOMY. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK? DO WE HAVE -- >> WHAT DO I THINK? >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> THE THINGS RATTLING AROUND IN MY HEAD, GENE, MONEY TO TELL LOTS OF PEOPLE. I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT DODD FRANK ARE THE GUYS GOING TO FIX THE PROBLEM WHEN THEY'RE THE GUYS THAT CREATED THE PROBLEM. YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC, THE GOVERNMENT DECIDED WE'VE GOT THESE RULES AND REGULATIONS ABOUT WHO YOU CAN LOAN MONEY TO. WELL, WE WANT YOU TO VIOLATE THOSE RULES. WELL, WE CAN'T DO THAT. SO WE'LL CREATE FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC.

PEOPLE TOLD THEM IT WAS GOING TO BE A DISASTER. THEY TRIED TO FIX THIS EARLIER. LOTS OF PEOPLE JUMPED ON BOARD, THOUGHT IT WAS A GREAT DEAL, WHETHER IT WAS NEWT GINGRICH WORKING FOR THEM, OR CHRIS DODD'S SON LOBBYING FOR THEM. YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE PROBLEMS, AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THESE GUYS HAVE THE ANSWER? I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT THIS EPIPHANY HAS ARISEN AT THIS POINT. THE PROBLEM IS THIS. THE PROBLEM IS THAT ONCE AGAIN, THE GOVERNMENT THINKS IT HAS THE ANSWERS TO THE PROBLEMS. THE GOVERNMENT WENT OUT AND GAVE ALL THIS MONEY TO THESE BANKS, SAID HERE'S THE MONEY, LOOK AT IT, BUT DON'T LOAN IT. BORROW IT, BUT DON'T GIVE IT. AND WE'RE KIND OF SURPRISED. YOU KNOW, LAURA'S RIGHT, WE'VE GOT ALL THESE CREDIT WORTHY QUESTIONS OUT THERE, WE'VE GOT ALL THESE STANDARDS THE BANKS HAVE TO FOLLOW, BUT THE GOVERNMENT JUST KEEPS GIVING THESE GUYS MONEY, GIVING THESE GUYS MONEY, AND THEY CAN'T GET IT OUT THE DOOR. AND THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU WANT THEM TO GIVE IT OUT THE DOOR? DO YOU WANT THEM TO LOAN MONEY TO A BUSINESS THAT'S GOING TO FAIL IF IT DOESN'T GET THIS LOAN? I'M NOT SURE YOU DO. THERE ARE SOME GOOD PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS. THE NEW MEXICO MORTGAGE FINANCE AUTHORITY HERE IS A PHENOMENAL ORGANIZATION. THEY DON'T RECEIVE MONEY FROM THE STATE AT ALL. THIS IS ALL MONEY THAT THEY GO OUT AND FLOAT BONDS, THEY

DO IT THROUGH INVESTORS, THEY'RE HELPING THESE PEOPLE OUT THERE. THEY'VE MADE MONEY, AND THEY'RE CONTINUING TO MAKE MONEY TODAY AS EVERYBODY ELSE IS LOSING MONEY, BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING PROGRAMS THAT ARE ACTUALLY WORKING WITH FOLKS. >> LET ME ASK YOU THIS. FOR THE CONSTRUCTION FOLKS, AND I WAS IN THE CONSTRUCTION BUSINESS IN THE NINETIES, BACK IN THE GOOD TIMES, AND IT WAS GOOD. IT WAS REALLY GOOD TIMES. BUT I'M THINKING OF ALL THE GUYS THAT I KNEW THAT WERE FRAMERS, AND BRICKLAYERS, AND CINDERBLOCK GUYS, AND CHIMNEY BUILDERS, AND FIREPLACE BUILDERS. HOW ARE THESE FOLKS SUPPOSED TO GET BACK TO WORK? >> I KNOW. I MEAN, THAT'S THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION. WE'VE GOT THIS INDUSTRY THAT GREW -- YOU KNOW, THEY BUILT THEIR CHURCH ON A FOUNDATION OF SAND. THEY WENT OUT AND SAID, WE'RE GOING TO JUST KEEP LOANING MONEY, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP BORROWING MONEY, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP GIVING YOU MONEY, YOU STATED INCOME, YOU STATED VALUE, AND NOW THIS CAME TO A HEAD. NOW ALL THESE GUYS THAT GOT IN THIS FIELD, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A JOB, AND I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A JOB FOR A LONG TIME, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK -- I THINK WE HAVE MORE HOMES ON THE MARKET TODAY THAN WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT CAN BUY, OR WANT TO BUY TODAY, AND I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE THAT PROBLEM FOR QUITE SOME TIME. >> THERE YOU GO. >> GENE, IF I COULD TAKE A SHOT AT ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION, HOW ARE WE GOING

TO GET THESE FOLKS BACK TO WORK, SOMEWHAT UNRELATED TO HOUSING, BUT DIRECTLY RELATED TO HOW THE PUBLIC SECTOR CAN STIMULATE THE ECONOMY, AND THAT'S POTENTIALLY AN INFRASTRUCTURE BANK. THAT'S INVESTING IN CAPITAL PROJECTS. THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE AN ANSWER TO PUTTING THOSE FOLKS BACK TO WORK, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT JUST WORKING ON RESIDENTIAL PROJECTS. THEY COULD POTENTIALLY BE IMPROVING OUR ROADS, BUILDING OUR FACILITIES FOR OUR SCHOOLS. I MEAN, I THINK THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAS A PRETTY -- AND I DON'T WANT TO DIGRESS TOO MUCH FROM THIS TOPIC, BUT IT DOES HAVE A PRETTY INTERESTING PROPOSAL WITH REGARD TO IT. >> MAYOR BERRY MENTIONED IN HIS STATE OF THE CITY SPEECH THIS WEEK, HE MENTIONED INFRASTRUCTURE, MIKE, AND THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO PUT FOLKS BACK TO WORK AND START BUYING -- HE DIDN'T MENTION HOMES, BUT CONCEIVABLY EXTENDING HIS THOUGHT OUT, BUYING HOMES AGAIN. DOES THAT SOUND REASONABLE TO YOU, GETTING BIG PUBLIC/PRIVATE WORKS PROJECTS GOING TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK? >> I WANT TO GET BACK TO PRINCIPAL RELIEF. >> PLEASE. I LOVE THAT TOPIC, PLEASE. >> IT'S A LOT LIKE STIFFING THE BOND HOLDERS OF GENERAL MOTORS AND CHRYSLER. AND, OF COURSE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE GUARANTEED PROPERTY RIGHTS, AND THE MONEY IS

BLOWN, AND A CONTRACT YOU CAN HONOR, THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS THE SAME WAY. IF YOU DON'T HAVE CONTRACT RIGHTS WHICH WILL GUARANTEE THAT YOU GET PAID, IF YOU STIFF THE MORTGAGE HOLDER BY REDUCING THE AMOUNT THAT'S OWED, YOU'RE GOING TO CREATE A SITUATION WHERE PROSPERITY SIMPLY EVAPORATES BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES. >> IT WILL GIVE THE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS JOBS, BUT WILL PUT ALL THE MORTGAGE PEOPLE OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO DEVALUE IT. YOU KNOW, GENE, ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE DEAL, WE HAD A LOT OF MONEY FOR INFRASTRUCTURE. WE HAVE BRIDGES AND ROADS WE CAN'T EVEN MAINTAIN TODAY BECAUSE THE FORMER GOVERNOR DECIDED TO BUILD A SPACEPORT, DECIDED TO BUILD THE RAILRUNNER, TOOK ALL OF THAT MONEY FOR MAINTENANCE, AND A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE WOULD BE WORKING TODAY MAINTAINING ROADS AND BRIDGES UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM THE WAY WE HAD IT. THAT MONEY IS GONE. IT'S BEEN OBLIGATED FOR BONDS THAT ARE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PAY FOR SPACEPORTS AND RAILRUNNERS AND OTHER PROJECTS OUT THERE. SO I'M NOT SURE -- THE EXAMPLE OF THIS IS, WHEN YOU GIVE THE GOVERNMENT THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEND MONEY, THEY'LL FIND WAYS TO SPEND IT HOWEVER THEY CHOOSE. >> THAT'S THE LAST WORD THERE. WE'LL TAKE A QUICK BREAK, AND BE RIGHT BACK "ON THE

CLOCK." >> OUR SISTER PROGRAM, PUBLIC SQUARE, RETURNS NEXT THURSDAY NIGHT, THANKSGIVING OF COURSE, AT 7:00 O'CLOCK WITH A VERY APT AND IMPORTANT PROGRAM. GWYNETH DOLAND LEADS US THROUGH AN HOUR-LONG INVOLVED DISCUSSION OF HUNGER IN NEW MEXICO. 50 MILLION AMERICANS HUNGRY. 50 MILLION. THAT IS, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD A DISEASE THAT AFFECTED 50 MILLION AMERICANS AND IT CAUSED THE KIND OF SYMPTOMS THAT HUNGER CAUSES AND THE KIND OF LONG-TERM DETRIMENT TO HUMAN BEINGS THAT HUNGER CAUSES, THERE WOULD BE A HUGE PUBLIC OUTCRY SAYING LET'S PUT AN END TO THIS. WE CAN'T HAVE FIFTY MILLION AMERICANS WITH THIS DISEASE. BUT WE HAVE IT. AND WE ARE NOT HEARING THAT OUTCRY. WE HAVE TO. IT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE IN THIS COUNTRY TO HAVE 50 MILLION AMERICANS HUNGRY. >> HERE'S A QUOTE: "THE REPORT OF MY DEATH WAS

AN EXAGGERATION." REMEMBER THAT? MARK TWAIN'S WORDS SEEM APPROPRIATE THIS WEEK AS SECRETARY OF STATE DIANNA DURAN SAYS HER INVESTIGATION INTO VOTER FRAUD IS NOT OVER AS REPORTED LAST WEEK. WE TALKED ABOUT IT HERE AT THE TABLE, CERTAINLY. THE TWO FOREIGN NATIONALS VOTING ILLEGALLY REPORTED THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR TO THE SECRETARY. AND WHAT'S MORE, DURAN SAYS IT WILL BE 2015 AT THE EARLIEST BEFORE THE NAMES OF SOME VOTERS WHO HAVE MOVED CAN BE ERASED FROM THE VOTER ROLLS. WHY? THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAYS FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE MARY HERRERA DIDN'T FOLLOW PROPER PROCEDURES IN VERIFYING CHANGES OF ADDRESS. DANIEL, THIS STORY CONTINUES. WHERE ARE WE NOW ON THIS? >> WELL, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND I APPRECIATE US TALKING ABOUT IT. WE CLARIFY. WE LEFT THE IMPRESSION LAST WEEK, AND I HAD THE IMPRESSION, ALSO, AND IT WAS MY FAULT, THAT, OH, THE INVESTIGATION HAS COME TO A HEAD, WE FOUND TWO PEOPLE. THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED. THESE TWO FOLKS DURING THE INVESTIGATION WALKED IN AND SAID, HEY, I THINK WE'VE BEEN VOTING -- I THINK WE'VE BEEN DOING WHAT WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING. SO THE SECRETARY OF STATE DID WHAT SHE HAD TO DO.

SHE TURNED THOSE TWO NAMES INTO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. SHE HAS A LIST, APPARENTLY, THAT'S COMING OUT, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE REPORT HAS BEEN DONE YET -- IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE PRETTY SOON -- ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF DEAD PEOPLE THAT ARE STILL REGISTERED, THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN'T FIND, THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE FALSE OR FRAUDULENT, THEY BELIEVE, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS. SO I THINK PEOPLE JUMPED ON THIS RIGHT AWAY AND SAID, OH, HERE WE GO, ALL OF THIS TIME AND MONEY SPENT, AND ALL WE FOUND WERE THESE TWO PEOPLE. IS THAT REALLY WORTH IT? WHEN THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, DURING THIS TIME, THESE TWO PEOPLE CAME FORWARD. I THINK SHE'S GOT A PROBLEM. >> WE'VE GOT A LITTLE SHORTER TIMER ON THIS ONE. LAURA, LET ME ASK YOU THIS. WAS SHE MISTAKEN TO TALK ABOUT THE TWO IN THE FIRST PLACE PUBLICLY? BECAUSE IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE INSIDE BASEBALL. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE, THAT HAPPENS, AND THE DEAD GUYS HAPPEN, AND THE PEOPLE THAT MOVE HAPPENS. THAT'S THEIR JOB, IS TO CLEAN UP THAT STUFF. DO WE REALLY NEED TO HEAR ABOUT IT? OR SHOULD SHE HAVE HELD OFF COMPLETELY UNTIL THE FULL REPORT IS READY FOR THE LEGISLATURE? OFF COMPLETELY. PERSONALLY, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE TRANSPARENT IN WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

I COMMEND HER FOR DOING THAT, FOR BEING HONEST ABOUT IT AND STRAIGHT-FORWARD. I WASN'T AWARE, OR I DIDN'T HAVE THE IMPRESSION AFTER LAST WEEK'S SHOW, BASED ON WHAT I HAD READ, THAT THERE WAS AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION. MY QUESTION, OBVIOUSLY, AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL ASK: HOW MANY RESOURCES ARE BEING DEVOTED TO THIS PROJECT? BECAUSE IT IS A VERY RESOURCE INTENSIVE PROCESS, TO GO BACK THROUGH VOTER FILES. AND THERE IS A LOT THAT COULD BE DONE WITH THE LIMITED STAFF AND RESOURCES THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE HAS IN TERMS OF FIXING OTHER PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE WITH ELECTIONS IN THIS STATE, AND WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THAT LAST WEEK. SO I CERTAINLY DON'T FAULT HER FOR COMING FORWARD. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE TRANSPARENT. I HOPE SHE CONTINUES TO DO THAT. I THINK THAT WE COULD HAVE BENEFITED FROM THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION BEING MORE TRANSPARENT. SO, FINE, THERE'S AN INVESTIGATION ONGOING. JUST THE RESOURCES THAT ARE LIMITED NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS THAT FACE THE SYSTEM. >> SURE. MIKE, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH WHERE THIS IS HEADED, THE DIRECTION ON THIS? >> YEAH. WE'RE GOING TO GET A PRELIMINARY REPORT FROM THE

SECRETARY OF STATE SOON, SHE SAYS. MAYBE WE'LL GET A LIST OF THE 641 PEOPLE, THE NUMBER THAT WE'VE HEARD RUMORED, WHO HAVE PASSED ON BUT ARE STILL REGISTERED TO VOTE. INTERESTING. WE'LL TURN THAT LIST OVER TO OUR CRACK INVESTIGATIVE TEAMS, AND MAYBE WE'LL FIGURE OUT HOW MANY VOTERS -- >> LARRY BARKER WILL BE IN FRONT OF THE TOMBSTONE. >> AND WE'LL FIGURE OUT HOW MANY OF THOSE HAVE VOTED IN WHICH PRIMARIES. AND IF MORE OF THEM ARE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, WE'LL PROBABLY GET THE BIGGEST FLIP-FLOP IN POLITICAL HISTORY. >> I DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING AT ALL. THAT'S INTERESTING. OUR SECRETARY WAS QUOTED IN THE PAPER THIS WEEK SAYING SHE DID REGRET TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS, THAT SHE PUT A NUMBER OUT THERE. NO ONE CAN FAULT HER FOR THAT. THIS IS NEWS FOR HER, TOO, DEALING WITH VOTER ROLLS. DEFINITELY TONED DOWN THE HEATED RHETORIC. YOU SAW LAST SUMMER HOW SHE ANNOUNCED 64,000 PEOPLE, OR 64,000 VOTING IRREGULARITIES. MY CONCERN IS, REALLY, THE PROCESS THAT SHE MOVED FORWARD WITH. SHE WAS ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO SEND THOSE IRREGULARITIES TO THE COUNTY CLERKS, AND SHE ACTUALLY SENT THAT TO THE

STATE POLICE, SOMEHOW CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, AND I THINK THOSE ARE IRRESPONSIBLE CLAIMS. AND WE CONTINUE TO SEE THAT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S CONCERNING. >> WE'LL SEE. WE WERE HOPING TO GET THAT PRELIMINARY REPORT MIKE MENTIONED TODAY FOR THIS DISCUSSION, BUT WE WERE NOT ABLE TO. SO WE'LL GET ON THAT AS SOON AS WE GET IT. NOW, IT'S TIME TO GET RIGHT "ON THE CLOCK," WHERE OUR PANELISTS HAVE ONE MINUTE AS A GROUP TO RESPOND TO THE FOLLOWING TOPICS. FIRST UP, THE LOBO FOOTBALL TEAM GETS A WIN, AND THEN GETS A NEW HEAD COACH. BOB DAVIE. GOOD CHOICE? >> GOOD CHOICE. GOOD CHOICE, RIGHT TIME. GET HIM HERE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, LET HIM SEE THESE PLAYERS AS THEY'RE PRACTICING INSIDE THEIR ELEMENT. GREAT WIN ON SATURDAY FOR THOSE KIDS. IT'S ABOUT THOSE YOUNG GUYS. I MEAN, SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT COACHES, ABOUT FAME, ABOUT TEAMS, ABOUT WIN/LOSSES, THOSE GUYS ARE GETTING UP EVERY DAY AND GOING TO LIFT WEIGHTS AT 5:00 IN THE MORNING. GOOD KIDS. THEY DESERVE A VICTORY. >> DOES THIS MEAN ANYTHING? >> I THINK THIS IS A GOOD THING. GREAT WEEK FOR THE LOBOS. THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT THING FOR MORALE.

BUT, I THINK IT'S A GOOD THING. HE DIDN'T HAVE THE BEST RECORD AS HE LEFT NOTRE DAME, BUT WE'VE HAD TERRIBLE RECORDS THE LAST TWO YEARS, SO I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A GOOD MOVE. >> AND GOOD ON PAUL KREBS. >> THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK, STEPH? >> I THINK IT'S GREAT. I JUST WANT BRAGGING RIGHTS. ALICIA, DANIEL, STEPHANIE. COLLEGE FRIENDS, ALL AGGIES. I'M GOING TO HAVE BRAGGING RIGHTS NEXT YEAR. >> WELL DONE. MIKE? >> WELL, I'M A NEW MEXICO STATE ALUMNI. I'M WITH THE LOBOS WHENEVER THEY'RE NOT PLAYING THE AGGIES. SO WE'VE GOT THREE LOBOS HERE. WHO WON THAT FOOTBALL GAME THIS YEAR? I CAN'T REMEMBER. LAST YEAR? THE YEAR BEFORE? THREE IN A ROW, RIGHT. WAIT, THERE WAS A ROUND BALL GAME THIS WEEK, TOO. WHAT HAPPENED THERE? >> WE'RE MOVING ON. THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL SAYS A FEDERAL GRAND JURY IS ONCE AGAIN INVESTIGATING MR. BILL RICHARDSON. THE FOCUS: HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SPENDING. THIS TIME, LAURA, THERE WAS ALSO -- MIKE GALLAGHER DID AN INTERESTING PIECE IN THE JOURNAL ON THIS THIS WEEK, ALLEGATIONS OF A WOMAN INVOLVED SOMEHOW WITH A PAY-OFF, AND ALL THIS OTHER CRAZY STUFF THAT NO DETAILS ARE FORTHCOMING. BUT THIS IS NUMBER 4 OF INDICTMENTS. THIS IS TRICKY BUSINESS.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THIS ONE? >> WELL, IT WAS NEWS TO ME, OBVIOUSLY. I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THIS STUFF. THE GRAND JURY, THEIR AUTHORITY IS PRETTY BROAD AND SWEEPING. THE GRAND JURY COULD BE INVESTIGATING ALL KINDS OF PARTS OF THIS. I THINK WE HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE WHAT, IF ANY, INDICTMENTS ACTUALLY COME OUT IN THIS PROCESS. >> THERE'S NO INDICTMENTS. THANK YOU. IT'S AN INVESTIGATION. >> WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS, I THINK, AS LIKE LAURA SAID, NUMBER 4. HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH COME OUT OF THE OTHER THREE. I THINK IN NEW MEXICO, THEY SAY YOU CAN INDICT A HAM SANDWICH. BUT IT CAN'T HELP THE GOVERNOR. IT CAN'T HELP GOVERNOR RICHARDSON. HE WAS MAKING HIS REBOUND. HE WAS OUT SEEING THE SUNDAY TALK SHOWS JUST A WEEK AGO FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA. THIS HITS THE NEWS TODAY. I IMAGINE HE HAS TO DISAPPEAR FOR A WHILE AND GO INTO HIDING UNTIL THIS CLEAR. >> ABOUT 15 SECONDS FOR YOU GUYS, STEPHANIE. >> I THINK IT'S JUST A WAITING GAME. I THINK THAT THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL IS HAVING A HEYDAY WITH IT, THOUGH. ANOTHER ANTI-RICHARDSON PIECE ABOVE THE FOLD, FRONT PAGE.

>> AND THIS FROM ERIC HOLDER'S JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. HE INDICTS FEWER DEMOCRATS THAN GARY KING. BUT FEDERAL GRANTS OF IMMUNITY SOUND PRETTY SERIOUS. >> YOU'RE ON A ROLL, MIKE. GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ WANTS TO AMEND THE NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION SO SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO RELINQUISH HER AUTHORITY WHEN TRAVELING OUT OF STATE. STEPHANIE, LET ME START WITH YOU. THE GOVERNOR MAKES A GOOD POINT TO ME. PERSONAL OPINION. TECHNOLOGY WAS NOT WHAT IT WAS WHEN THIS WAS ORIGINALLY DONE WAY BACK WHEN. YOU'RE OUT OF THE STATE, NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO GET AHOLD OF YOU, SOMEONE HAS TO TAKE CARE OF THE STATE'S BUSINESS. SHE'S ONLY IN EL PASO. IT'S LIKE A COUPLE FEET OVER THE STATE BORDER. >> THERE WOULD BE AN EXEMPTION FOR EVERYWHERE ELSE? IT WOULD JUST ONLY BE WHEN SHE TRAVELED TO EL PASO? COME ON, REALLY. THIS REALLY DOES BEG THE QUESTION, HOW MUCH TRAVELING IS SHE PLANNING TO DO THROUGHOUT 2012? >> NOT AS MUCH AS RICHARDSON, THAT'S FOR SURE. >> AND WHAT ARE HER INTENTIONS? >> THOSE ARE REASONABLE QUESTIONS. DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A STAB AT THAT ONE? >> SHE'S JUST TRYING TO LIGHTEN THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S WORKLOAD.

MAYBE SHE THINKS THAT WARM BUCKET OF, WHATEVER, IS TOO GOOD FOR THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. >> INTERESTING. WHAT DO YOU THINK, MS. LAURA? >> I THINK THIS IS A REAL LOSER. I LIKE TIM JENNINGS' QUOTE, TALKING ABOUT HOW SHE KNEW THIS WAS A PART OF THE JOB WHEN SHE RAN FOR IT. AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, THIS IS A PART OF THE CONSTITUTION. WE CAN'T START MAKING CHANGES BECAUSE IT'S INCONVENIENT. >> DO DEMOCRATS EVEN COME CLOSE TO PASSING THIS? >> IT'S FUNNY TO HEAR MY COLLEAGUE SAYING THAT. GOVERNOR RICHARDSON TOOK THE JOB, AND HE KNEW THE AMOUNT OF THE PERMANENT FUND TO SPEND FOR EDUCATION, AND MIRACULOUSLY WE CHANGED THAT. SO THE CONSTITUTION IS ALWAYS UP FOR CHANGE. IT DEPENDS ON WHO'S CHANGING IT, APPARENTLY, ON WHETHER IT'S A GOOD THING. >> DOES IT HAVE A CHANCE, THOUGH? >> PROBABLY NOT. ANYTHING SHE ASKS FOR IS NOT GOING TO GET A LOT OF HEYDAY WITH THE DEMOCRATS IN THE LEGISLATURE. >> WE'VE GOT TO STOP THERE. NEXT MARCH WILL MARK THE FIRST TIME SANTA FE USES PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FINANCING RATHER THAN CANDIDATES FOR CITY COUNCIL GRABBING MONEY FROM PEOPLE OR COMPANIES. ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THIS FORM OF FINANCING? >> WELL, THIS SHOULD MAKE IT EASIER FOR CHALLENGERS WHO DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE PAY-TO-PLAY CASH FLOW THAT IT TAKES TO GET ELECTED. AND IN SANTA FE, THEY'RE ALL

REPUBLICANS. >> INTERESTING. STEPHANIE, WE TRIED TO CUT AT THIS A FEW YEARS AGO IN ALBUQUERQUE, BUT REMEMBER, RICK HOMANS -- REMEMBER BACK WHEN HE WAS RUNNING FOR MAYOR AND ALL THAT? >> I THINK TAKING MONEY OUT OF POLITICS IS A GOOD THING. I MEAN, I THINK THE VOTERS OVERWHELMINGLY AGREE THAT IT'S NECESSARY. I MEAN, IT PASSED IN 2005 IN ALBUQUERQUE BY ALMOST 70%, AND IN SANTA FE BY NEARLY 65%. SO I THINK WE NEED TO LISTEN TO THE VOTERS ON THIS ONE. >> LOOK AT THE PRC. I MEAN, IT CLEANED IT UP REALLY WELL. >> HEY. >> I MEAN, JEROME BLOCK IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE THAT MONEY IN THERE. I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ALWAYS SAY WE DON'T WANT THE PRIVATE SECTOR MONEY, BUT THEN WE ALWAYS DO THING LIKE, WE'VE GOT TO GO RAISE $5 FROM ALL OF THESE PEOPLE JUST TO GET ON. I THINK IT'S ALL JUST A SCAM. IF YOU CAN'T RAISE MONEY TO RUN, YOU SHOULDN'T BE RUNNING. >> INTERESTING. DAN WOULDN'T BE ALONE IN THAT THOUGHT. ARE YOU GOING TO GO WITH STEPHANIE OR DAN ON THAT? >> I'M NOT SURE I NEED TO PICK BETWEEN STEPHANIE AND DAN. BUT I WILL SAY, I AGREE ACTUALLY WITH WHAT MIKE SAID EARLIER, THAT WHEN YOU HAVE SOME FORM OF PUBLIC FINANCING, IT DOES LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD A LITTLE BIT. IT PROVIDES OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE WHO OTHERWISE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RUN.

>> AND THERE'S THE BELL ON THAT. THIS WEEK, THROUGH SUNDAY, THE BOSQUE DEL APACHE NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE HOLDS ITS 24TH ANNUAL -- A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IT'S BEEN GOING ON THIS LONG -- 24TH ANNUAL FESTIVAL OF THE CRANES. AND BIRDWATCHING, LAURA, IS BIG BUSINESS FOR THOSE FOLKS DOWN THERE. AND IT'S LOVELY. IT'S SO MUCH FUN. >> IT PROVIDES A HUGE REVENUE STREAM, MUCH LIKE OTHER FESTIVALS. I MEAN, ROSWELL, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT LAST WEEK. IT'S AN IMPORTANT FESTIVAL. IT'S ONE THAT BRINGS PEOPLE FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, AND OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE. >> MY FIRST TIME WHEN I MOVED HERE, I WAS BLOWN AWAY, DAN. I THOUGHT IT WAS THE LOVELIEST THING. >> ANYTHING THAT BRINGS PEOPLE TO NEW MEXICO TO SPEND MONEY, I HAPPY FOR. I WAS JUST THINKING THAT WE WERE GOING TO SEE THE KID FROM "KARATE KID" AND HAVE HIM DO THE CRANE. CRANE FESTIVAL. I MEAN, WE COULD GET A SHOT OF THAT. IT WOULD WORK WITH OUR FILM FESTIVAL MONEY. >> OH, DAN. >> STEPHANIE, WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> I THINK IT'S GREAT. I AGREE WITH LAURA, ANYTHING TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY. AND I AGREE WITH YOU, DAN, TOO, FOR THE RECORD. I AGREE WITH DAN ON THIS. >> LET'S MAKE IT UNANIMOUS, I THINK IT'S GREAT, ALSO. THE ECONOMIC IMPACT STATEMENT IS 166,000 VISITORS, MOSTLY AFFLUENT FOLKS, LEAVING BEHIND ABOUT

45 BUCKS A HEAD WHEN THEY COME, AND I THINK THAT'S FINE. IT'S TOO BAD THEY AREN'T ASKED FOR THE ADDITIONAL $15 EACH THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SPENDS TO SUBSIDIES. >> TALK ABOUT IRONY -- ANOTHER SUBJECT. GARY JOHNSON'S CAMPAIGN GOING AFTER THE FEDS, AFTER "THE MARKET." THAT IS, NETWORK STATIONS -- CBS, MOST SPECIFICALLY -- HOSTING DEBATES DECIDED AGAINST HIM PARTICIPATING. LITTLE IRONY, DAN, ASIDE. WILL THIS HELP SOMEBODY ELSE DOWN THE ROAD? BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE IT'S TOO LATE FOR GOVERNOR JOHNSON. BUT IS HE FALLING ON HIS SWORD FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW HERE? >> NO, HE'S FALLING ON HIS SWORD FOR HIMSELF. THAT'S WHAT GARY DOES, AND THAT'S FINE. I DO THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, HE'S RIGHT. IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE TELEVISION CHANNELS THAT ARE GOING TO HOST THESE DEBATES, IT'S NOT THEIR JOB TO CHOOSE WHO IS GOING TO WIN AND WHO IS NOT GOING TO WIN. WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN? LOOK AT WHERE THE REPUBLICAN FIELD IS TODAY. MAYBE IF GARY JOHNSON HAD GONE IN THERE AND DONE A GOOD JOB, HE COULD BE LEADING. HERMAN CAIN WAS NOT GOING TO LEAD, AND THEN A MONTH AGO WAS NUMBER ONE IN THE POLLS. SO I THINK ANYTHING THAT

MAKES THESE GUYS SAY, IF YOU CAN DO THE PAPERWORK AND SHOW UP TO WORK, YOU SHOULD BE ON THE STAGE. >> HE MISSED ON THAT ONE, TOO. >> HE DID, EXACTLY. >> LAURA, WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> I THINK IT IS TOO LATE FOR HIM, BUT I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT MOVE ON HIS PART. I THINK IT WILL SET SOME PRECEDENT. I'M HOPING IT WILL, AT LEAST. AND I AGREE WITH DAN. I JUST THINK A MONTH AGO, WE WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT HERMAN CAIN AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT PERRY TAKING THE LEAD. SO ANYTHING CAN CHANGE, AND I THINK HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED. >> WHAT'S THE CUBAN WORD FOR FUTILE? THAT'S A JOKE. THAT'S A HERMAN CAIN JOKE; SORRY. >> OH, DEAR. I WILL SAY, THOUGH, RELATED TO THAT -- >> DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS. >> YEAH. >> I'M SO SORRY. >> THAT'S OKAY. >> GO AHEAD. >> DAN AND GARY, BORN AGAIN REGULATORS. NOW THEY SEE A PURPOSE, A ROLE FOR GOVERNMENT. GARY JOHNSON WANTS TO GO AHEAD AND CRY TO THE FEC. WHERE WOULD WE BE WITHOUT THE FEC? THERE IS AN IMPORTANT ROLE. >> MIKE, WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> I SAID LAST TIME, I'M EMBARRASSED FOR GARY JOHNSON. I FOUND THREE POLLS OF 1300 NEW HAMPSHIRITES IN WHICH GARY WAS LISTED ONLY AS

"OTHER." HE DREW ONLY 20 VOTES. 82% OF THE PEOPLE IN OTHER POLL SAID THEY'D HEARD OF HIM, BUT ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE HAD A BAD OPINION OF HIM. I WISH HE WOULD JUST GIVE IT UP AND COME HOME. >> I'LL STAY WITH YOU ON THIS LAST POINT, ON THE QUESTION I ASKED THE GUYS EARLIER. IS THIS BETTER FOR THE FUTURE, THOUGH? DO WE NEED SOME CLARITY ON HOW THESE FOLKS GET PICKED? >> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. I THINK GARY IS DISGRACING HIMSELF BY GOING TO THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION AND SUING ON THIS ISSUE. EITHER -- MAKE YOURSELF ATTRACTIVE ENOUGH TO GET PICKED. I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN DECIDING WHO IS IN THOSE DEBATES, AND WHO IS NOT. >> THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU GUYS FOR BEING HERE, MIKE AND STEPH. ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU GUYS. THE BELL HAS TOLLED FOR US HERE. WE'LL GET TO WHAT WE MISSED NEXT TIME. >> AS WE HEAD INTO THE HOLIDAYS, WE'LL HAVE AN ABBREVIATED LINE SEGMENT FOR THANKSGIVING NEXT WEEKEND FOCUSING ON WHAT'S WORKING IN NEW MEXICO PUBLIC POLICY. I'LL ALSO SIT DOWN WITH JUAN GONZALEZ OF DEMOCRACY NOW AS

HE AND AUTHOR JOSEPH TORRES EXPLORE THE HISTORY OF RACE AND THE MEDIA. PLUS, CATHY ROBBINS ON HER NEW BOOK - "ALL INDIANS DO NOT LIVE IN TEEPEES OR CASINOS". THANKS THIS WEEK, BY THE WAY, GO TO PATRICK HIBBARD AND MARIE FOX FOR KEEPING UP WITH US ON FACEBOOK, AND AT NEW MEXICO INFOCUS.ORG. I'M GENE GRANT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK -