Beyond Survival; Part 1

<v Kurt Williams>Hello and welcome to Beyond Survival: To Be a Young African-American Male in Hampton <v Kurt Williams>Roads. I'm Kurt Williams from WTKR TV3 News. <v Kurt Williams>And this is a live town meeting from the studios at WHRO TV in Norfolk. <v Kurt Williams>Tonight is the second of 3 nights dedicated to examining the lives of young black men. <v Kurt Williams>Our perceptions of them and the reality that Hampton Roads is just as vulnerable <v Kurt Williams>as any large metropolitan area to the problems of violence, lack of education and health <v Kurt Williams>care, and the increasing numbers of our brothers and sons killing one another. <v Kurt Williams>One of the solutions to these problems is education, not just in the classroom, but on <v Kurt Williams>the street, in the workplace and in the home. <v Kurt Williams>Beyond survival is a step toward that education. <v Kurt Williams>It is the result of a partnership between WHRO and the African-American communities <v Kurt Williams>of Hampton Roads. This project began in April of this year with WHRO seeking <v Kurt Williams>the involvement of area citizens. <v Kurt Williams>They listed some of the important concerns essential to any discussion of the conditions <v Kurt Williams>faced by young black males. <v Kurt Williams>The topics chosen were self-image, self-esteem, education

<v Kurt Williams>and violence, conflict resolution and crime. <v Kurt Williams>Now, for the next two hours, we'll examine these issues here in the studio with our <v Kurt Williams>guests, our studio audience and with you through your comments and questions. <v Kurt Williams>If you would like to comment or would like to receive a copy of the Beyond Survival <v Kurt Williams>Resource Guide, call us here at 489-2700 or 1-800-899-9476. <v Kurt Williams>Now let's get our discussion of self-image, self-esteem started, probably the most <v Kurt Williams>complex issue we will discuss tonight, self-esteem. <v Speaker>Why are black men an endangered species today? <v Speaker>Why are we killing ourselves and each other? <v Speaker>And how can we get back to where we were? <v Speaker>How do we move to reclaim our greatness? <v Speaker>Our question tonight on What's Going On. With knowing our ancient history and <v Speaker>contributions to the Bible increase our self-esteem as a race of individuals. <v Speaker>We want you to call us right now, 741 WVE if you have a comment

<v Speaker>about our topic tonight. We go first to Dierdre who is calling from Clarkston. <v Speaker>Diedre, are you there? <v Angela Greene>It's their opportunity to vent, to say those things that are on their mind gives them an <v Angela Greene>opportunity to feel like they're in control, expressed their own views rather than having <v Angela Greene>us tell them or preach to them or say, well, you should do this and you should do that. <v Angela Greene>We open up the lines and let them say we give them a topic and let them call in and give <v Angela Greene>their viewpoint, say what they want to say, vent about anything, whatever it is they want <v Angela Greene>to talk about. <v Speaker>741, WVE if you want to make a comment tonight. <v Speaker>We go now to somebody call from Riverdale. <v Speaker>Jamal, are you there? [Jamal: Yes, I am.] OK. <v Speaker>You're on the air. <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>When you think of black oriented radio, I think mostly think of music, whether <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>it's urban, contemporary or R&B <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>gold or gospel, or even jazz. <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>You rarely hear of-of-of a black radio station doing at least one <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>hour tall per week about anything. <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>But, you know, we're fortunate here to have, you know, a space

<v Herbert Denmark Jr.>and the format that we have some flexibility, whereas we can have something like <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>what's going on. <v Radio Announcer>How do you like- you're twelve right? <v Radio Announcer>OK. So what do you think? Since you're getting ready to go into the middle grades and <v Radio Announcer>high school what are some of the subjects that you would like to see taught in your <v Radio Announcer>school to help you learn more about your history. <v Angela Greene>Things like talk shows have been around for such a long time, but they weren't always <v Angela Greene>oriented for teenagers or to just talk about teen things or just to let teenagers <v Angela Greene>talk about whatever they want. <v Caller>And we should take pride in our blackness as well as-as <v Caller>you know, the past right up into the future. <v Caller>And we should try to uphold a great image than we are <v Caller>today. [Announcer: ok] I feel like us especially as young African-Americans we aren't <v Caller>doing all that we can to really, you know, make- <v Caller>make all the things people in the past have done for us- <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>[Speaking over radio caller] This generation is definitely different than my generation, than my parent's generation in that, <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>you know, they don't have any direction.

<v Herbert Denmark Jr.>They're frustrated. They almost don't know what to do. <v Herbert Denmark Jr.>It is coming to the point where they're just- they're just taking it out on society. <v Speaker>Black men have not done their jobs and explain to our African-American males what <v Speaker>it means to be a man. Some boys think talking back to their mom is going to make <v Speaker>them a man talk. Talking back to a female teacher is going to make them in a man. <v Speaker>And I'm unfortunately later on going one to one against the police is gonna make them a <v Speaker>men as well. <v Speaker>Historically, the interest of the dominant group have been served <v Speaker>by really not only portraying black males in this negative way, <v Speaker>but by marginalizing black males, by keeping them out of the executive <v Speaker>suites of the banks, of the Wall Street brokers, by <v Speaker>creating barriers so that they are doomed to fail. <v Speaker>And that then means that there are more places at the top reserved <v Speaker>for whites. <v Joe Anderson>The game is played not only in the boardroom, but

<v Joe Anderson>on the golf course and quite often at the dinner table. <v Speaker>I think you got to go. [laughter] <v Earl Washington>One of the advantages that our white counterparts have is that they <v Earl Washington>live with people like themselves. <v Earl Washington>They associate with people like themselves. <v Earl Washington>They have a network of communications at country clubs and <v Earl Washington>within the offices where they pass on vital data and information <v Earl Washington>that leads to their success. <v Earnest Edwards>I live in two worlds. <v Earnest Edwards>I live in a corporate world, and that corporate world is about performance. <v Golfer>Oh, that's a great shot Will. <v Earnest Edwards>Well, at the same time, we live in another world and our world is- is- it is our <v Earnest Edwards>blackness, if you will? <v Golfer>Partner. Oh <v Earl Washington>We as black corporate vice presidents <v Earl Washington>or executives have a dual responsibility.

<v Earl Washington>Not only do we have to perform within the company, but we also owe to the black community <v Earl Washington>some performance. <v Milton Irving>We're the corporate byproduct of the civil rights movement, the first wave <v Milton Irving>of African-Americans into corporate America. <v Milton Irving>And what then makes ELC even more important, it's the way that survive. <v Earl Washington>I always say to myself that I am only a paycheck away <v Earl Washington>from being out on the streets and hustling with the rest of the black <v Earl Washington>folks in America to make a living. <v Milton Irving>I believe that there is racism in corporate America. <v Milton Irving>Although I don't believe that people are racist. <v Milton Irving>And what you have to do is you have to dig beneath <v Milton Irving>the culture of your organization to try to understand why this has happened. <v Speaker>I don't think that there are 12 white men sitting around in Washington planning <v Speaker>how to eliminate the black population from this country <v Speaker>or how to incarcerate all black males. <v Speaker>I don't really think you have to have a conscious conspiracy. <v Speaker>I think that there are so many structural inequities in our society

<v Speaker>that one does not have to plan a conspiracy. <v Kurt Williams>Well, media images and music have served as a model for modern culture and hip <v Kurt Williams>hop with its fashion and language and music. <v Kurt Williams>It's the current trend. Some of these images and music can seem harsh and raw and <v Kurt Williams>unsettling. And producing this series, it was necessary to give you the viewers <v Kurt Williams>interviews, images and music to try to show what is reality for some African-American <v Kurt Williams>males. Now let's get to our panel of distinguished guests here things get- to <v Kurt Williams>get things rolling here to start off. We have Tech also known, I guess his formal name is <v Kurt Williams>Kevin Thomas. He's a member of the Organization of the Black World Order. <v Kurt Williams>He is also a rapper and musician. <v Kurt Williams>Tech, thanks for being with us. And we have Stan Verrett and <v Kurt Williams>you may recognize the name. He's a morning on air personality and spokesperson for WOWI, <v Kurt Williams>103 jams. Thanks. <v Kurt Williams>And we have Richard Wilson, who is the public relations chairperson for the Virginia <v Kurt Williams>Peninsula- Peninsula chapter of One Hundred Black Men.

<v Kurt Williams>Thanks, Richard, for being here with us. And we have Larry Gibson, who is a youth <v Kurt Williams>minister for First Baptist Church in Hampton. <v Kurt Williams>Thanks for being here with us. There's probably not an issue that can generate <v Kurt Williams>more controversy when you say the phrase gangster rap [laughter]. <v Kurt Williams>When you say gangster rap and you get some people chuckling and you get some reactions <v Kurt Williams>here. When we talk about self-image and when we talk about self-esteem, <v Kurt Williams>what is the image that is being projected in-in gangster rap? <v Kurt Williams>Tech, tou want to take that first? <v Tech>Yeah. You know what I'm saying gangsta rap. <v Tech>You take it for what it is, gangsta rap. <v Tech>But they are not really gangsters for real. <v Tech>You know, I feel-. <v Kurt Williams>I think some of them have been in trouble with the laws. <v Kurt Williams>I think some of them are legitimate gangsters. <v Tech>Well, that's what they call it. <v Kurt Williams>But my question is, what is the image that is being projected? <v Kurt Williams>What are young black males seeing when they see those those rap videos? <v Tech>They see brothers running around with you know- seeing guns in nice looking cars, <v Tech>you know, seeing things like that. And they want, you know what I'm saying, they want to

<v Tech>get those things. No, I'm saying cars and houses and all the women <v Tech>I'm saying. But that's not necessarily the goal. <v Kurt Williams>As a rapper, do you defend gangsta rap? <v Tech>I defend it because you know that's my brother speaking. <v Tech>You know what I'm saying. So I'm with them on that, but you know what I'm saying, not <v Tech>necessarily agree with what they talk about. <v Kurt Williams>Stan, you're with a radio station that occasionally will play some gangsta rap. <v Kurt Williams>What are your thoughts on the matter? <v Stan Verrett>Well, I believe the music began as a form of reporting. <v Stan Verrett>You'll hear some rappers who will defend what they do and the messages <v Stan Verrett>that are found in their music as a reflection of what is real, what is happening on <v Stan Verrett>the streets today. And I believe the music began that way. <v Stan Verrett>But I believe as this music became popular, as it became more mainstream, <v Stan Verrett>as it became more and this is the key word, profitable, then they're beg- <v Stan Verrett>there began to be a trend to glorify the images in gangsta rap music, <v Stan Verrett>the guns, the violence, the macho, tough stance.

<v Stan Verrett>I believe those things began to be glorified in a manner that was unrealistic <v Stan Verrett>and that is now bordering on destruction <v Stan Verrett>in terms of the images that black males are receiving. <v Stan Verrett>I was talking about this just the other day and I was watching a rap video show. <v Stan Verrett>An image after image after image was the same thing. <v Stan Verrett>The guns, the beer, the marijuana, the women, <v Stan Verrett>the cars. And there was no positive reflection of any black <v Stan Verrett>males in school interacting with other people in a positive manner. <v Stan Verrett>Working at a job, spending time with the family. <v Stan Verrett>There was none of that. It was the same image over and over again. <v Stan Verrett>And I can't help but-. <v Kurt Williams>Why does your radio station plays some of that then? <v Stan Verrett>Well, most of the music that we play is- is censored versions of songs <v Stan Verrett>that may be misogynistic or they may be <v Stan Verrett>somewhat violent in their themes in the uncensored version. <v Stan Verrett>The FCC mandates that there are certain gangsta records that no matter how many requests

<v Stan Verrett>we get, we can never play them. <v Stan Verrett>So-so the messages that we receive from the record companies we control <v Stan Verrett>in terms of how much we put on the airwaves. <v Kurt Williams>I'll tell you what. I want to hear from these two other panel members. <v Kurt Williams>But I also want to get some reaction from from our studio audience. <v Kurt Williams>And the question that, you know, that really has to be answered is, yes, the-the-the <v Kurt Williams>images can be disturbing, but does it influence young <v Kurt Williams>people? Are there young people who watch gangsta rap and think, yeah, I want to be <v Kurt Williams>gangsta? Yeah, I want- I want- I want to carry a 9. <v Kurt Williams>Yeah. So let's a- let's let's hear from some of the some of the young brothers out here. <v Kurt Williams>Oh we got- we got someone back here. <v Kurt Williams>Let's get some reaction from this fellow here. <v Kurt Williams>Question, Can gangsta rap influence young people? <v Kurt Williams>Let me get your name. <v Bill Jones>Bill Jones. Uh gangsta rap- it does <v Bill Jones>glorify the thug life as some may call it. <v Bill Jones>It is really hurting our people because for young people <v Bill Jones>is is very influential because they cannot discern between the fantasy <v Bill Jones>and the reality. So while one person is getting paid, making fantasy, another

<v Bill Jones>is going to jail or hurting someone else by creating the reality of it. <v Bill Jones>So it is really not helping us at all. And I can't defended. <v Kurt Williams>Should it be censored? <v Bill Jones>It should be censored, and it should be taken out. <v Kurt Williams>All right. Do we have anyone- do we have anyone that disagrees with that? <v Kurt Williams>This is- this is surprising that we don't have any of the young brothers here who are <v Kurt Williams>saying, all right, here we go. Here we go. All right. <v Kurt Williams>As I was- I was wondering- What? All right. You've got a microphone. <v Kurt Williams>Go ahead. <v Audience Member>First of all, I don't believe in there's a category called gangsta <v Audience Member>rap. That there- the word gangster is just a label put on the music <v Audience Member>by another party of people. <v Audience Member>For some people, there's nothing gangsta about that music. <v Audience Member>It's just a reality to them and where they stay at. <v Audience Member>Now, if we, you know, see if we going, you <v Audience Member>know, about calling this gangsta rap, look at other music, why would they put <v Audience Member>a category on something that is changing?

<v Audience Member>Most of our people and there's some lyrics agree are harsh and does not <v Audience Member>need for uh some is to be heard. <v Audience Member>But in the same in the same time, you have to listen to <v Audience Member>this music. You have to get a clear understanding of what you're trying to tell you. <v Audience Member>They may say, yo, I shot him with my 9. <v Audience Member>You know, I'm saying, but then again, look at him. <v Audience Member>He's saying in the same song he's telling you, don't go do that because there's-. <v Kurt Williams>Uhh, now- now, there may be some rappers that say, don't <v Kurt Williams>go do that. But I'm telling you, there's a lot of rappers out there that are saying, <v Kurt Williams>don't step to me wrong or I'll blast you in the face. <v Kurt Williams>And, you know, I don't have a problem. <v Kurt Williams>And I don't think other people have a problem with rap music. <v Kurt Williams>If it shows the consequences of those actions of slapping your women around or <v Kurt Williams>carrying a gun or selling drugs. But the problem is there is some rap music that does not <v Kurt Williams>show any consequence of that action of going before a judge or ended up in jail. <v Kurt Williams>And I guess our concern is what is the message of that kind of song? <v Kurt Williams>You know, you know wear all the gold necklaces.

<v Kurt Williams>You don't have all the money. <v Kurt Williams>Aren't you concerned as a young African-American about the image that that is sending? <v Audience Member>Yes, I am concerned, but this- this <v Audience Member>is going back to, you know what I'm saying, that's what people want to do, you know, <v Audience Member>want to do like, okay, like if they want to, you know, where all the gold necklaces <v Audience Member>and change and drive around it cause they got work for it. <v Audience Member>You know, I'm saying it nothing comes easy in America. <v Kurt Williams>But you don't-. <v Audience Member>You know what I'm saying. <v Kurt Williams>So you don't think that there's some messages that say sell drugs, <v Kurt Williams>pack A9, be strapped, be hard? <v Audience Member>Yeah. Yeah. Those are those brothers. <v Audience Member>You know, I'm saying, see. But then again, you have to look at the- that's the <v Audience Member>way that, you know, saying that they are mind is set. <v Audience Member>They see nothing else but, you know what I'm saying, well- we'll go ahead and shoot this <v Audience Member>brother. You know, I'm saying, do some to this sister That's not right. <v Audience Member>You know what I'm saying. Then- then, there's another side of rap. <v Audience Member>There's other brothers who challenge. You don't do that.

<v Audience Member>Then, you know what I'm saying and they're sending out a positive message. <v Audience Member>It's like it's really two sides to rap. You just say it's the good and the bad side. <v Kurt Williams>Should the bad side be bad? <v Speaker>Should the bad side be what? <v Kurt Williams> Be banned? Should it be taken off the air? <v Speaker>Should be banned. Well, I see some music. <v Speaker>You know, what I'm saying, well, people don't have to listen to it if they don't want to <v Speaker>hear it. You know, I'm saying it's like we're basically rap is just entertainment. <v Speaker>You know what I'm saying is music. <v Kurt Williams>I guess my concern, though, is for the people, though, who cannot discern between it <v Kurt Williams>being as entertainment. And this is, you know, the kind of life that I want to embrace. <v Kurt Williams>Let me get that to Don Roberts here, because I know Don, who is a <v Kurt Williams>somewhat of a rival of mine at another another station that won't be mentioned at this <v Kurt Williams>time. [laughter] [Don Roberts: WABYT TV] but I know that you have a <v Kurt Williams>book out. <v Don Roberts>Yes. <v Kurt Williams>And tell me about what's in that book. <v Don Roberts>The book is called Rap to Live By. And basically, it's a result of some frustration. <v Don Roberts>And what I'm hearing on the radio, seeing on TV and it's

<v Don Roberts>a powerful messages out here. And as we heard one esteemed scholar say a long time ago <v Don Roberts>that the medium is the message. I'm concerned as a parent that kids will see an image on <v Don Roberts>TV and say, hey, I want to be like that. <v Don Roberts>I'm concerned about what kids are hearing over and over and over again as a parent. <v Don Roberts>That's why I undertook the effort to vent some frustration and maybe even try my own rap. <v Don Roberts>Now, some folks consider it kind of corny, but whenever I go to a school and talk to some <v Don Roberts>kids, they listen. So for a nontraditional rapper type like myself to <v Don Roberts>talk to some kids and to attempt to identify with the art form of rap, the fact <v Don Roberts>that they listen says something to me. It says something about the power of rap. <v Don Roberts>And I think we as adults got to recognize that the power in the music, one that they are <v Don Roberts>listening. And maybe we ought to listen a little closer ourselves <v Don Roberts>to what the rappers are saying. Should it be censored? <v Don Roberts>I don't know about that. I think that Stan has to draw the line on some of the stuff that <v Don Roberts>goes on the air. Of course, he knows that responsibility. <v Don Roberts>But we as parents got to do the censoring. <v Don Roberts>We censor by coming across to our children with messages

<v Don Roberts>of common sense, with values in the home and with examples. <v Don Roberts>Now, what we do in the book is try to get a kid to pick up a book or maybe into rap and <v Don Roberts>to try some of the raps himself. <v Don Roberts>One rap is about self-esteem. <v Don Roberts>For example, I'm concerned about kids who are tripping down <v Don Roberts>in the starting blocks because someone looks at them and says oh he's got the look. <v Don Roberts>You know he's from the projects and he can't do certain things he can't achieve. <v Don Roberts>He can't learn because he's from the project. <v Don Roberts>One rap, for example, says Give the kid a chance. <v Don Roberts>The project is what he is. It's where he lives, is not what he is. <v Don Roberts>Give him a chance to learn like any other kid. <v Kurt Williams>So we need to we need to watch out for MC Too Fresh, don Roberts down the road. <v Kurt Williams>[laughter] He's got- he's gonna be making it big here. <v Kurt Williams>[applause] All right. We have someone over. <v Kurt Williams>You had a comment to make. <v Speaker>I got a comment to make about this with rap. <v Speaker>Like he said earlier it's a fantasy life. <v Speaker>And right now, a lot of people, especially black males, we don't have too much to really <v Speaker>rely on because right now sometimes we have to go through things and circumstances with

<v Speaker>our home lives. And you said it like you said, the censor of- the parents must censor <v Speaker>what kids listen to. <v Speaker>But sometimes when the parents are not there you have kids practically raising their <v Speaker>selves. So right now, what we need to do as- I mean as black American males we need to <v Speaker>stop looking at how this person is living and how that person is living and get a higher <v Speaker>education. We need to let that tape go every now and then and spend a few hours less with <v Speaker>that tape, and more a few more hours when our homework, all the things we need to do <v Speaker>better ourselves because I'm tired of hearing a lot of black people say the man get me <v Speaker>down here and the man got me. No you get yourself down. <v Speaker>You just sit there. You said, well, hey, if I stop listening to this tape for a little <v Speaker>while and put more power or more energy into my homework and get better grades <v Speaker>in school instead of going to school half the time- late half the time, not really <v Speaker>learning something because you assleep. You stayed up the night before. <v Speaker>You need to really just buckle down as yourself and rely on yourself to bring yourself <v Speaker>out of that. And I believe more education will help that. <v Kurt Williams>All right. I appreciate that. What about the images of black males in the media on the <v Kurt Williams>news. Now, you'll be easy on me, all right.

<v Kurt Williams>But what is- what is the- what is the message that is being sent and what is- what is- <v Kurt Williams>what is that image? <v Kurt Williams>Any reaction to that? <v Larry Gibson>You mean what does the media project to- <v Kurt Williams>News media? <v Larry Gibson>The news media. What they're projecting that we are always- blacks <v Larry Gibson>are always involved in something negative, you know, and- and I mean ride hard <v Larry Gibson>on it like that statistics they say that out of 4 <v Larry Gibson>black males, 1 is going to wind up in prison. <v Larry Gibson>Well, then, where's the other three? <v Larry Gibson>What are they doing? Why don't the media hop on the good that the kids are doing <v Larry Gibson>also? <v Kurt Williams>But don't you think, though, that the fact that we report continuously on what's going on <v Kurt Williams>in the inner city, that it has spurred some people to act and move? <v Kurt Williams>I mean, if all we do is put on the good news and I. <v Kurt Williams>And I agree that their probably needs to be more balanced coverage in the news. <v Kurt Williams>But don't you think that when we put these negative images out on the air, that it <v Kurt Williams>motivates people to say, look, we got to do something? <v Richard Wilson>True, it does motivate and motivated me and motivated my organization

<v Richard Wilson>One in a Black Man, but it also sometimes put out a negative connotation. <v Richard Wilson>It puts out that if all you see is a black man running down the street with a gun <v Richard Wilson>or a young black male in the street, that's all we do. <v Richard Wilson>Some people take this to be real life, real life everyone. <v Richard Wilson>Uh I often reflect back to The Cosby Show, and when I would go talk <v Richard Wilson>to different schools and every now and then the kids come to me Mr. Wilson, you know, <v Richard Wilson>though, that's not true to form. <v Richard Wilson>Black folks don't live like that. <v Richard Wilson>So why is that not true to form? They say well we don't see them. <v Richard Wilson>And it's what is portrayed by the news media. <v Richard Wilson>The news media shows everyone to be on the corners. <v Richard Wilson>We're not gangsters, but we're not that way. <v Kurt Williams>But if we- But if we do these negative stories and cause people to react, then we can <v Kurt Williams>report on the positive stories that are coming from. <v Kurt Williams>You're reacting to the negative story. <v Richard Wilson>Very few positive stories. <v Larry Gibson>But for the most part, we're not doing the things that we should <v Larry Gibson>do. It's not enough standing up.

<v Larry Gibson>It's only a few. If more would stand up to make a difference, <v Larry Gibson>because everything we do whether the negative or positive affect everybody else <v Larry Gibson>and someone will sit back and say, yeah, well, that's bad. <v Larry Gibson>Well, are you going to stand up? No, I'm not gonna stand about wait for somebody else to <v Larry Gibson>stand up. And as we look at ourselves as black men and we look at ourselves and we look <v Larry Gibson>at our children, we'll think about doing something. <v Larry Gibson>But the rest of the world that are not black are just looking at that one part of us <v Larry Gibson>that they're always into something. <v Speaker>Right. <v Speaker>I want to get back with you on the discussion as a further- little a- little later on <v Speaker>about the role of what the black church is doing or not doing. <v Speaker>We have- we have someone in our studio audience that has a point to make. <v Unka Wolf>I'm ?Unka Wolf?. I'm the creator of the Ceasefire Kids, we are a <v Unka Wolf>performing arts against violence program. <v Unka Wolf>And right now, we're implementing it in the Woodrow Wilson High School <v Unka Wolf>in Portsmouth. And what we're all about is I <v Unka Wolf>I just heard we said one in four. <v Unka Wolf>Where are the other threes? That is right.

<v Unka Wolf>Our youngsters, children, youth, young adults, <v Unka Wolf>they go through a process of. <v Unka Wolf>Learning to performing arts, and by doing this, we discover we <v Unka Wolf>uncover their talents. <v Unka Wolf>They are there. <v Unka Wolf>These talents are uncovered by. <v Unka Wolf>Working in the performing arts, we have one young man in the audience. <v Unka Wolf>He belongs to the ceasefire kids. <v Unka Wolf>He's part of it. He has discovered his poetry, his writing. <v Unka Wolf>He has written a play which was performed already. <v Unka Wolf>This is empowerment to our young men. <v Unka Wolf>This is knowledge. <v Unka Wolf>And why don't we hear this more in the media when we have success? <v Kurt Williams>Well, that's cause we like to report on the bad news. You know, that's I- we do- <v Kurt Williams>The media needs to do a better job of reporting on on on the good things. <v Kurt Williams>But I still think that there can be some good that can come out of reporting on the

<v Kurt Williams>negative, that it can spur people to ask- people to act. <v Kurt Williams>But I have a question. <v Kurt Williams>You know, we talk about self image and self-esteem to young black males need self image <v Kurt Williams>or self-esteem or do they need a job? Do they need a dad in the house? <v Kurt Williams>Let's I've- I've- I've had a friend over here, Republican activist Bill Thomas. <v Kurt Williams>[laughter] And this is Mr. Family Values here. <v Kurt Williams>Do young black males- do they need self-esteem, work on their self-image <v Kurt Williams>or do they need a job? Do they need a dad in the home? <v Bill Thomas>Well, it's it's reality. We have more programs, an alphabet type of organization from the <v Bill Thomas>NAACP to-to all these things. <v Bill Thomas>We need money. These kids need a focus and a vision. <v Bill Thomas>And they need somebody to lead the way. We- We've lost our moral leadership. <v Bill Thomas>And I live in the inner city. I see this from day to day. <v Bill Thomas>It's not the media we always got to blame. <v Bill Thomas>It's the media. It's the white man. It's the rain. <v Bill Thomas>It's always something. It's us. <v Bill Thomas>And until we step forward and say enough is enough, turn off that TV. <v Bill Thomas>There was an article in The Wall Street Journal the other day. <v Bill Thomas>We spend 85 percent of our disposable income to the same white devil that we curse

<v Bill Thomas>out. And it's insanity. <v Bill Thomas>We have to come and say, it's me, it's you. <v Bill Thomas>It's not the media, it's us. <v Bill Thomas>The NAACP can't save me. Some groups, some not for profit organization can't save me. <v Bill Thomas>We need people in our households. <v Bill Thomas>We got to call it what it is. Rap music is crap. <v Bill Thomas>It's no good. It demeans the mind. <v Bill Thomas>And if you listen to it, your mind will rot. <v Bill Thomas>Read some classic books, read about Ulysses and read about all the black guys that were <v Bill Thomas>great that took over the things and develop Egypt and in eastern Africa. <v Bill Thomas>But we get involved in things. <v Bill Thomas>And then we let the very same white man devil sell us tennis shoes that <v Bill Thomas>cost 5 dollars for 125 dollars. <v Bill Thomas>And we'll sit up there and put African garb on ourselves that the white man sells. <v Bill Thomas>And then we'll say the white man is our problem. It's the men who are not in our <v Bill Thomas>household. It's the 60 percent of our jails are filled with a population that only <v Bill Thomas>contributes 20 percent to this state. <v Bill Thomas>Those are the problems after issue. Stop blaming. <v Bill Thomas>Look in the mirror. Less claim our problem.

<v Bill Thomas>Let's move forward. <v Kurt Williams>Well, I think Bill has kind of got things slightly started here. <v Kurt Williams>[laughter] Jack Tavis or rather sorry [Bill Thomas: Oh no! Don't make that mistake] [laughter] Jack <v Kurt Williams>Howard, conservative commentator, rather, a liberal commentator for WNEA. <v Kurt Williams>Your reaction to- to- to these remarks? <v Jack Howard>Well, you know, Kirk, first of all, I think Bill is hit upon something that- that's true. <v Jack Howard>A lot of these problems are internal problems that we can solve. <v Jack Howard>And I think that the serious problem we really have is black men need to start <v Jack Howard>taking responsibility for their kids. <v Jack Howard>That's that's just a fact. I mean, I every time I go back home where I grew up at <v Jack Howard>Mississippi, I see guys who say to me, Jack, you're so lucky you made it. <v Jack Howard>But the white men won't let me make it. The system won't let me make it. <v Jack Howard>Then I think to myself, is this the same guy who dropped out of school in the ninth <v Jack Howard>grade? Is this the same guy who should come to school strung out, got kids all over town? <v Jack Howard>So some of these problems are internal, but you cannot ignore that a lot of the <v Jack Howard>government resources that should be directed toward inner city projects to help some of <v Jack Howard>these kids to provide activities are things that the very people like Bill Thomas

<v Jack Howard>and other Republicans reject out of hand. <v Kurt Williams>All right. I think we get things going here. We have to- we have some comments from- from <v Kurt Williams>our studio guest over here. Go ahead. <v Guest>Yes. I think mainly we have to look at several issues. <v Guest>There was a parable that I was given several years ago as a child where if you take <v Guest>a 3 foot inch or 3 foot rope and tie the leg <v Guest>of an individual to that rope and consistently walk them around in a circle and then you <v Guest>take that rope off, they consistently still will walk that circle. <v Guest>And I think what has happened in the black community is we far too many times I agree <v Guest>with the gentleman over there, we tend to place blame or stereotype or scapegoat. <v Guest>But I think ultimately we have to look at an esteem problem. <v Guest>I think there's a black male aggravation and envy that exists that has been passed from <v Guest>generation to generation. Resolutions to these problems have non-are nonexistent <v Guest>or have not been brought to the forefront of what are the solutions. <v Guest>We're looking at tremendous amounts of young black males that are carted off to <v Guest>institutions that are prisons.

<v Guest>And within those prison systems, they learn nothing but more aggravation to come back out <v Guest>on the street that in fact give a reflection of what reality has produced <v Guest>for them to go to these prisons. And I think far too many times we're first to point the <v Guest>finger. That we have we need to look at ourselves. <v Guest>But if you're not taught how to deal with that aggression, not talk productively how <v Guest>to become a self motivated, self esteemed individual, then in fact, it's a repetitious <v Guest>problem that we are lashing out and we're asking for help. <v Guest>And this is what these rap videos are idioms, too. <v Guest>This is what the media's reflection is. <v Guest>And I think we have to look at the radio stations and the media. <v Guest>They're not controlled by back- black populace. <v Guest>They feed off a black populace. <v Guest>And that's where the problem is. No one wants to point the finger to say that, yes, we <v Guest>have these moguls that sit on these hills and say, well, I can get <v Guest>86 percent of the dollar from the black community selling <v Guest>these rap music. I can get 86 percent of the Nielsen <v Guest>votes if I project these negative images.

<v Guest>And I think what happens is as many black people that are in positions such as yourself, <v Guest>such as this gentleman over here, they need to step forward and say, no longer are we <v Guest>going to tolerate this. We have a constituency that does not want to deal with this <v Guest>anymore, that is producing a generation after generation whip lashing effect <v Guest>of negativity on black people, that these institutions produce Eurocentric <v Guest>attitudes as opposed to a combination diversification attitude among black <v Guest>students. Because when we sit on or do you or we go to Georgetown or when we go to <v Guest>Princeton, when we even go to Howard University, there is a idiom that's taught to us <v Guest>that's Eurocentric, that's not Afrocentric, that you are to assimilate as opposed <v Guest>to introspect and understand self to intersect and become <v Guest>a part of your diversification and let it be known that you are partly attributed to <v Guest>this constitution, too. And that's the problem. <v Kurt Williams>OK. And we have a comment in the back. <v Audience Member>Yes, a lot- All three of these men have made very valid points. <v Audience Member>We have lost a lot of men, fath- father figures in the homes.

<v Audience Member>And a lot of kids have to look to rap. <v Audience Member>For him- for him to make a monolithic statement as rap being crap. <v Audience Member>I don't agree with that because you have some rappers out there that make very valid <v Audience Member>points in their rap, such as Heavy D, M.C. <v Audience Member>Hammer. You have your other <v Audience Member>rappers such as, you know, Queen Latifa <v Kurt Williams>I mean, I don't think I don't think most of us in here, though, would say that that all <v Kurt Williams>rap music is bad. But I think the point that we can all agree on is that there is some <v Kurt Williams>bad stuff out there and it sends it sends a negative message out there. <v Audience Member>Yes, I totally agree with that. I totally agree with that. <v Audience Member>But a lot of things, like I said, a lot of kids are being brought up in one <v Audience Member>parent families. And that's a big problem. <v Audience Member>We don't have the father figure in familys. <v Audience Member>We don't have the kids-Someone that the kids can look up to. <v Audience Member>We don't have someone that can steer kids and say, no, that is not right for <v Audience Member>you to take on that image of shooting and gangbanging. <v Audience Member>And Robert, we don't have that. That is more of what we need.

<v Audience Member>I'm a member of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. <v Audience Member>That's what we do. We go to the community services, and we do all those things. <v Audience Member>We tell the kids right from wrong and tutoring and study groups. <v Kurt Williams>All right. We have a comment over here. <v Rosa Edwards>Yes. I thought certain that we were going to talk about solutions <v Rosa Edwards>because we know all the problems. <v Rosa Edwards>What are we gonna do? What are you doing to make a difference? <v Rosa Edwards>Let's talk about solutions instead of what's wrong. <v Rosa Edwards>We know what's wrong. [applause] For example- <v Kurt Williams>All right. Some of the things that you're doing at your school. <v Rosa Edwards>Right. For an example, at Allerton Elementary, we have a black male culture club. <v Rosa Edwards>And we don't just have this club for February. <v Rosa Edwards>We meet every Thursday and a solution. <v Rosa Edwards>We've given these boys a platform or leadership skills of feeling <v Rosa Edwards>good about themselves that I can go out and conquer the world. <v Rosa Edwards>And if we can do more and we can have clubs and organization like this <v Rosa Edwards>and each one of our elementary schools and start at an early age and moving

<v Rosa Edwards>them on up, we'll be OK. <v Rosa Edwards>But I get so tired of listening to all of that. <v Rosa Edwards>What's wrong with that? I know what's wrong with us- what are you doing? <v Rosa Edwards>What are you doing to change? <v Kurt Williams>How easy was it for you to start up your program? <v Rosa Edwards>It was a thing of going to an administration who say, yes, <v Rosa Edwards>there's a problem. Yes, let's work together and let's- let's do something. <v Rosa Edwards>See but the thing is. Everybody says sit around. <v Rosa Edwards>And I used to be one of those people- people saying what was wrong? <v Rosa Edwards>And but then- but then I said, well, what are you doing, rather? <v Rosa Edwards>So now I can go home and sleep at night because I'm doing something. <v Rosa Edwards>So you don't sit on the panels, don't sit in audience and TV and talk about <v Rosa Edwards>what the problem and the politician make me- they make me sick because <v Rosa Edwards>all they do is use a couple of different schemes <v Rosa Edwards>to get their names in the media. <v Rosa Edwards>It's ok to use you then Kurt. And then after they get their names there, then they <v Rosa Edwards>don't do anything. But we have been struggling and doing a fine

<v Rosa Edwards>job at Allenton for the past five years. <v Rosa Edwards>And we're got to continue. So we are a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. <v Kurt Williams>Some of things. You touch on black history. [applause] I mean- I mean, the young- <v Kurt Williams>you have young black males that are pretty much running the show of this program. <v Rosa Edwards>They run the show. I'd like for you to see the young man who run the <v Rosa Edwards>show. I mean, they are- they are the leaders. <v Rosa Edwards>They run the show. <v Rosa Edwards>When we were in high school- when we were in school, we were taught how to be leaders. <v Rosa Edwards>These young men don't have platforms unless we give them platforms. <v Rosa Edwards>So black men, where are you? <v Rosa Edwards>Grab a young man. If you can't do anything but grab one of them, grab one <v Rosa Edwards>man and do something with them weekly. <v Rosa Edwards>You can give an hour, two hours to one chow and you'll be making a difference, <v Rosa Edwards>not sitting around looking grand saying what the problem <v Rosa Edwards>is. I'm sick of it. <v Kurt Williams>All right. For more information on the Black Male Culture Club at Allanton Elementary.

<v Kurt Williams>Contact Rosa Edwards at Adams Elementary. <v Kurt Williams>That's in Virginia Beach. Let's move on to our point about the role <v Kurt Williams>of the black church. I mean, during the civil rights movement, I mean, that is what kept <v Kurt Williams>the families intact. That was our source of refuge. <v Kurt Williams>That was our source of getting things done. <v Kurt Williams>What is the black church doing now? What should the black church be doing? <v Larry Gibson>To be truthful-. <v Kurt Williams>The heat is on your side. The heat's been on me for a whole night. Now the heat's on you. <v Larry Gibson>Well see, there's no heat when you really just stand up and tell the truth. <v Larry Gibson>You know, black churches are really doing nothing. <v Larry Gibson>We're talking just like the politicians. <v Larry Gibson>Just like a lot of the so-called black leaders. <v Larry Gibson>A lot of us are just talking talk and saying we care about the <v Larry Gibson>children. We want to do something, but we aren't doing anything. <v Larry Gibson>Just like the sister was sharing to get our names thrown out. <v Larry Gibson>That's fine. But as far as getting down into the hood and working <v Larry Gibson>with these kids and standing up, I'm scared I'll lose my life. <v Larry Gibson>I'm scared I'm going to lose my position and people will start turning their backs on me.

<v Larry Gibson>We're so afraid of other things that we won't stand up and do the things that's really <v Larry Gibson>required of us. And we talked about the church. <v Larry Gibson>We go to church every Sunday. <v Larry Gibson>Most folks. But once they get us out of the church and come right back out, you talk <v Larry Gibson>them out. Look, let's take our children on a trip. <v Larry Gibson>We don't have the money. <v Larry Gibson>Then you're talking about having 50 or 60 thousand dollars in your missions fund, just <v Larry Gibson>sitting on it in the bank, but you won't spend money to send the kids to programs <v Larry Gibson>or you don't come together. <v Larry Gibson>I mean, churches come together, stop fighting one another. <v Larry Gibson>At one time I thought- God, it's a blessing to see so many churches in the area. <v Larry Gibson>But God let me know that that's not a blessing. <v Larry Gibson>That's a problem. That's division. <v Larry Gibson>Everybody wants to get top billing. If I don't get top billing then I won't work with <v Larry Gibson>you. <v Kurt Williams>Well, you are the youth ministry at your church, First Baptist- First Baptist Church in <v Kurt Williams>Hampton. What are some of the programs that are going on in your church that other <v Kurt Williams>churches can emulate? <v Larry Gibson>We have rap sessions with the kids. <v Larry Gibson>Always no matter what we do, if you don't give children

<v Larry Gibson>a God head to let them know who they are in Christ Jesus. <v Larry Gibson>And I know a lot of people don't want to hear that, but I don't care what you teach your <v Larry Gibson>children. If you don't teach them a God head, everything else is gonna float right out of <v Larry Gibson>the window. And so whatever we do with our children, God first. <v Larry Gibson>I don't care if its playing a baseball game. <v Larry Gibson>Playing basketball, God first, has to be. <v Larry Gibson>[applause]. <v Kurt Williams>Alright anymore comments? Richard? <v Richard Wilson>I understand where he's coming from. <v Richard Wilson>My church, you've been to my church before. <v Richard Wilson>You know, we have several programs we've been working on. <v Richard Wilson>A Help Now program, which we'll take at risk youth assigned to us by <v Richard Wilson>the ?Dupatta? School system. And we tutor them and we go out and father figures. <v Richard Wilson>We also work in conjunction, one of the black men of America. <v Richard Wilson>We also have adopted the neighborhood school, John Marshall. <v Richard Wilson>And we go in, and we tutor those boys once a week. <v Richard Wilson>And, uh, these kids are labeled at risk. <v Richard Wilson>They come from uh troubled families. <v Richard Wilson>I myself I go in and do that is very rewarding to me to go and do that, because I came

<v Richard Wilson>from a situation where I had a father and a mother. <v Richard Wilson>I had strong parents, a strong family background. <v Richard Wilson>And I was always taught to give back. <v Richard Wilson>And that's something that we need to start doing more of giving back, because as you <v Richard Wilson>say, we didn't make it on our own. God has been- has to be the focal point of our life. <v Richard Wilson>And we have to give thanks every day for just being here. <v Kurt Williams>?Lets talk to? some of the younger brothers, no offense sir, but let's hit some of the younger brothers <v Kurt Williams>on- on- on the panel. What can be done to get young <v Kurt Williams>African-American men interested in activities in the church? <v Stan Verrett>First of all, I'm honored to be considered one of the young brothers. <v Stan Verrett>[laughter] There's not much difference in our ages.But <v Stan Verrett>I think anytime you reach out and you promote some inclusion among <v Stan Verrett>young black men, you give them a feeling of being wanted, of being welcomed <v Stan Verrett>somewhere. If you look at the interests of young black males today. <v Stan Verrett>There's rap music, there's athletics and there's the street, and they're flocking to <v Stan Verrett>those three things because that's where they feel wanted.

<v Stan Verrett>That's where they feel included. That's wjere they feel a sense of identity and- and <v Stan Verrett>therefore they flock to it. If there were other interests, as as Rosa was saying earlier, <v Stan Verrett>as- as the- the other lady was saying earlier, if there are other programs, <v Stan Verrett>other interests, the fine arts or culture clubs, those sorts of things to develop other <v Stan Verrett>interests, then we'll start to see more of a-a leveling out of interest among <v Stan Verrett>young black men. And we won't have the problems that we have now. <v Kurt Williams>Tech what you think. How can we get young men, young African-American men interested in <v Kurt Williams>activities in church? And what do the ministers need to hear? <v Kurt Williams>What do the youth directors need to hear? What should they be doing to draw a young black <v Kurt Williams>man into the church? <v Tech>If you wanted to draw me in the church, you would have to explain to me that the Bible <v Tech>and the Holy Koran is a story about myself and about my people <v Tech>[applause] and you know what I'm saying, let's be real. <v Tech>They- they have twisted around over a thousand times to try to keep you from knowing <v Tech>that, you know, I'm saying you started all this and the Bible just reaffirms that. <v Tech>So if you want to get me in the church, let me know that. <v Kurt Williams>Any reaction to it?

<v Larry Gibson>Oh, the one- on the one- you can't refute that. <v Larry Gibson>That that's true. You know, because I had an adult to tell me about eight <v Larry Gibson>or nine years ago. He said the same thing. <v Larry Gibson>He said, why is it that when I read word that I never see God dealing <v Larry Gibson>with black men? My first thought was, well, what makes you think that these people are <v Larry Gibson>not black? Because he didn't know. <v Larry Gibson>We are taught, and we have to take individual steps also. <v Larry Gibson>You know, if there's no father in the home, then I'm the father. <v Larry Gibson>I make myself the father, another home, hear me. <v Larry Gibson>So we have a responsibility to one another. <v Larry Gibson>And I teach them, look, don't just allow me to tell you what the words <v Larry Gibson>says. You go and study it too, find out like and not to be racial or <v Larry Gibson>anything but mo- almost every biblical event that happened in word, in the Bible happen <v Larry Gibson>in Africa. So how are going to tell me that they didn't deal with us, too. <v Larry Gibson>But see, they won't read. And our children- I won't put the blame on them, too. <v Larry Gibson>They won't take the time to read. <v Larry Gibson>They're just gonna go back and I go to church because my parents make me.

<v Tech>It's a problem that started way back. <v Tech>You know what I'm saying. Way back from like slavery. <v Tech>You know what I'm saying. In slavery you kept being broken down and broken down <v Tech>and broken down to when it finally got to me. <v Tech>You know what I'm saying, nobody was telling me that you know what I'm saying, get the <v Tech>knowledge on my own. You know what I'm saying and that hurts, you know what I'm saying. <v Tech>When I have to look at my mother to see that he was beat down so much that she can't even <v Tech>come out and tell me the facts that matter. <v Tech>I have to go and look for Him myself and then be the man, you know what I'm saying. <v Kurt Williams>All right, let's hear from some of the younger people in the audience about getting- how <v Kurt Williams>to get- how to get more involved in the church. <v Kurt Williams>You need a- need- need a microphone for this brother right here. <v Kurt Williams>We will go and take you and I'll get a microphone here. <v Kurt Williams>How do we get younger African-American men active and involved in the church? <v Kurt Williams>What- what would you if you had a conversation with- with a preacher, with a youth <v Kurt Williams>director? What would you tell him about what they need to do? <v Audience Member>Well, one of the problems is, is that the churches are dealing more with tradition. <v Audience Member>You know, they have older folks in the church who are running the church who are going to <v Audience Member>sing the same old hymns and do the same old routine day in and day

<v Audience Member>out. They don't want to cater to the youth to bring the youth in. <v Audience Member>There are different ministries for different age groups, for different people, <v Audience Member>but is all going to God. <v Audience Member>Now, we always keep telling the young people to go to church, go to church when we need <v Audience Member>to say, you need Jesus, we need to hit home. <v Audience Member>Tell 'em you need Jesus straight up. <v Audience Member>I mean, it's a lot of things that we need to let them know that the word of God is real. <v Audience Member>But if they don't see it coming through us, then they're not going to believe it. <v Audience Member>There are not fathers in the home. The fathers are not taking care of their children. <v Audience Member>They're out there handing more business of their own rather than dealing with their kids. <v Audience Member>So when their kids grow up, they don't know how to be a father. <v Audience Member>They don't know how to be a man. <v Kurt Williams>All right. The young brother right here he had a point. <v Audience Member>I agree what you said. But first of all, we have to open our minds and understand that. <v Audience Member>It doesn't really matter whether you're black, whether you're white. <v Audience Member>The Bible is for all people. It's not like when you die, you go into a black heaven or a <v Audience Member>white heaven. So so we need to open our minds and realize that it doesn't make a <v Audience Member>difference, you know. And for myself, the church is a very important part of my

<v Audience Member>life. But that's why I'm here today. <v Audience Member>Myself and these four gentlemen right here. <v Audience Member>We're from St. John's over on the eastern shore. <v Audience Member>And our turf is constantly doing something, you know, just for aiding for the young black <v Audience Member>males to get us off the street. <v Audience Member>We have a gymnasium, go play basketball. <v Audience Member>Just last night for Halloween when we had a All Saints night for the children. <v Audience Member>There were over 150 children at church on Halloween. <v Audience Member>They went out on the street, you know, causing mischief or whatever they were at the <v Audience Member>church. We had different games or whatever. <v Audience Member>So you said the black churches aren't doing anything? <v Audience Member>Not all of them. Some are. You know, so it's not all of them. <v Audience Member>[applause] <v Kurt Williams>No. I just think his point was I think- I think that Larry's point was- I think it's a <v Kurt Williams>valid point that he acknowledges that- that- that some black churches are doing <v Kurt Williams>something. But there are a lot of black churches that they're just taking our money. <v Kurt Williams>You know, I mean- I mean- I mean- I mean, I'm just going to be honest. <v Kurt Williams>Tell it like it is. And more churches need to be- need to get involved. <v Kurt Williams>We got a comment here. <v Audience Member>Yes. I would just like to share one of the things that our church is doing <v Audience Member>to help our young black people and not just black people because we are concerned

<v Audience Member>about all people. I am a member of Faith Temple Apostolic Church in Suffolk, Virginia, <v Audience Member>where my pastor is ?Bishop Opa-Locka Alanda.? <v Audience Member>And I'm proud to have him here with me. <v Audience Member>And we are directors of an outreach program for the youth in the city <v Audience Member>of Suffolk called the Kings Kids of America Incorporated. <v Audience Member>And what we do, we go out to the neighborhoods where our children live. <v Audience Member>We are predominantly in our public housing areas and we go out to these <v Audience Member>areas who are mostly have one parent and they are female and <v Audience Member>we are in badly- badly in need of black males or any male that <v Audience Member>can come and help us to go out to these homes. <v Audience Member>We meet in the recreation center, and we teach these children about the whole person. <v Audience Member>Somebody said if they can tell me who I am, where I came from, and this is <v Audience Member>what we do, we teach them about who they are spiritually, who they are emotionally <v Audience Member>and naturally. You just can't teach a person about who they are spiritually. <v Audience Member>You got to let them know how to live naturally as well as spiritually.

<v Audience Member>And this is what we do. We teach them even how to save money, how to deal with <v Audience Member>their environments, how to be good positive assets, teaching them that <v Audience Member>God created us as equals. <v Audience Member>And you have to know that you are special, no matter who you are, no matter who your <v Audience Member>parents are, no matter where you live. <v Audience Member>No matter what type of clothes you wear, you have to know that you are a unique <v Audience Member>individual who God made [Kurt Williams: OK] And this is what we're teaching our children. <v Kurt Williams>But real quickly, the name of your church. You said you need some volunteers, the name of <v Kurt Williams>your church and a phone number where they can contact you. <v Audience Member>Faith Temple Apostolic Church in Suffolk, Virginia. <v Audience Member>And the num- the number is 9 3 4 2 7 3 5. <v Kurt Williams>OK. And we had a comment from this brother right here. <v Kurt Williams>[inaudible mumbling] <v Audience Member>We've all brought it- we've all brought up that that we need <v Audience Member>to seek. We need to seek, you know. <v Audience Member>Words from our older generation, but it's not- it's not only from the older generation. <v Audience Member>We as teens need to go out and focus, you know,

<v Audience Member>and relate to our youngest generation, not just look to the elders, you know, <v Audience Member>for the answers. I mean, we as youth have a lot of knowledge. <v Audience Member>You know, we go through all of the daily activities, and we can share some of our <v Audience Member>activities and what goes on in life to some of the younger generation coming <v Audience Member>up. <v Kurt Williams>All right. Y'all heard that now. I mean, it's not just, you know- and that is- that- that <v Kurt Williams>is a valid point. Young people are more likely going to be more influenced by their peers <v Kurt Williams>than by old folks. And, you know, you need to- you need to get with <v Kurt Williams>you know, they are more influenced by young people and you need to get with your friends, <v Kurt Williams>pull them aside and- and in a loving, gentle way, pull them aside, and say yo you know, <v Kurt Williams>you need to step away from that negative activity. <v Kurt Williams>We had a question from- from one of our viewers. <v Kurt Williams>How do you feel about ex-gang members coming to church? <v Kurt Williams>How are they treated? <v Richard Wilson>God forgave everybody. <v Richard Wilson>That's it [laughter] You can come to church. You can come to church. <v Richard Wilson>There's no problem. God forgives everyone.

<v Kurt Williams>All right. Larry <v Larry Gibson>What a lot of the youth need to do and when I say a church brother, that wasn't just <v Larry Gibson>excluding it to black churches. I'm taling about church universal. <v Larry Gibson>I'm talking about white churches. Stand up to when they know that there's wrong being <v Larry Gibson>perpetrated in this world to stand up against it also. <v Larry Gibson>But anyone a lot of times we get caught up like a brother said in tradition and legalism <v Larry Gibson>in the church that we frown on people that don't dress like me. <v Larry Gibson>If I'm coming in a three piece suit and someone coming in a pair of jeans, I'm gonna look <v Larry Gibson>at them funny. <v Larry Gibson>They should learn to not think about what others think <v Larry Gibson>of them at that moment. What they're coming to do is- to become <v Larry Gibson>a member of the church or to join the church to fellowship, to learn more about self, to <v Larry Gibson>learn more about God and other things. <v Larry Gibson>And then once people realize that you know who you are, then they'll start looking at you <v Larry Gibson>different. <v Kurt Williams>All right. Well quickly, the fellow in the striped shirt. I know you've had your hand up <v Kurt Williams>for some time here. You got a mike. <v Kurt Williams>Okay, go ahead. <v Audience Member>?There are people that love some of our gang members.? You know, we need to show love for

<v Audience Member>them, because if you come into the church this way, looking for in a church is supposed <v Audience Member>to give them love because Christ taught us what love is. <v Audience Member>So we show them love. We should also then be invite even a- even a gang member, that even <v Audience Member>Aunt X game is a real game moves because they need to find out what love is because if <v Audience Member>they knew where love was they wouldn't be in a gang. <v Kurt Williams>All right. I appreciate that. We've got to wrap this part of this discussion up, but the <v Kurt Williams>show will continue. Couple of points. Get involved, quit assessing blame. <v Kurt Williams>Whether you're part of a church, whether you're community organization, get involved to <v Kurt Williams>make a difference as you move along. One of the things which have been found to affect <v Kurt Williams>self-esteem and self-image of young black men is education or <v Kurt Williams>the lack of education. Let's take a look at some of the issues. <v Kent Amos>Well, we absolutely have the capacity in this society, I believe, to put <v Kent Amos>in place the systems, the structural systems to raise our children to be productive, <v Kent Amos>well, well educated, well-prepared, very meaningful adults <v Kent Amos>versus the garbage that we're producing today. <v Charles Beady>When I discovered the Piney Woods Country Life School, I discovered what must have been

<v Charles Beady>one of the best kept secrets in the United States, where Lawrence Jones had literally <v Charles Beady>started a school to educate the sons and daughters of illiterate farmers in 1909 in <v Charles Beady>rural Rankin County, Mississippi. <v Charles Beady>We recognized that all of the United States of America there are black youngsters, <v Charles Beady>African-American youngsters who are slipping through society's cracks. <v Charles Beady>Black youngsters in particular tend to bring into the teaching learning environment <v Charles Beady>something we refer to as a high sense of futility or the belief that the deck <v Charles Beady>of life is stacked against them. And I submit that if- if a youngster is bringing <v Charles Beady>that kind of posture into the teaching learning situation, then very little <v Charles Beady>teaching and learning are going to occur. <v Speaker>What are your friends going through at home? <v Student>Violence. <v Student>Going to school you've got to always watch your back. You never- you never know what's <v Student>going to happen. Somed- somebody may shoot back. <v Student>You know, but a bullet doesn't have a name on it, it could be them. <v Student>So basically, you have to watch your back every day and you can't get a good education <v Student>if you're scared all the time.

<v Charles Beady>We have our young people understand in no uncertain terms that their primary <v Charles Beady>reason for being here is to get an education. <v Charles Beady>And our primary reason for being here is to make sure that that happens. <v Charles Beady>We don't allow our athletes or any of our students to participate <v Charles Beady>in nonacademic extracurricular activities if they get less than a C in any class during <v Charles Beady>any given week. We're a Christian oriented boarding school. <v Charles Beady>So we have a venue for dealing with moral development. <v Charles Beady>75 percent of our young people come to us from lower socioeconomic single-parent <v Charles Beady>situations, yet we're able to send 95 percent of our graduates onto some <v Charles Beady>of the best colleges and universities in the United States of America. <v Teacher>Ray- Ray came in with a knife because I did something wrong. <v Teacher>I failed him on test. And he said, 'I'm going to get you.' He's black. <v Teacher>I'm black. <v Teacher>How would you feel if he killed me? <v Student>[inaudible speaking] <v Teacher>OK. <v Teacher>Why do you think we have so much violence in our neighborhood amongst our people.

<v Teacher>Why would they commit a crime against me? <v Teacher>Because of the color of my skin-. <v Teacher>But see our skin, look we're the same. <v Student>Maybe because he think- maybe he don't like it. <v Teacher>Because he hates me. Oh, OK. <v Teacher>That's a possibility. And for him to hate me he has to hate who else- whom else. <v Student>Everybody black. <v Student>And himself. <v Teacher>Thank you Yes. Hate himself. If one person can hate somebody else, they have to first <v Teacher>hate themselves. <v John Coats>There are a lot of things that those kids can tell you about black on black crime. <v John Coats>As the kids say they see a lot of violence. <v John Coats>They see drugs. They see deaths. <v John Coats>They see prostitution. <v John Coats>There's just so much out there for them to see, and it's very difficult as a young 8 <v John Coats>year old not to follow. <v John Coats>I give them a view of a black man as quite different from what they see normally <v John Coats>is not to say that I'm better than their fathers, better than their uncles or any male in <v John Coats>their family. I just give them a different view.

<v John Coats>Society's view of the black man in this area is on the corner <v John Coats>in a cool cap turned to the back or having baggy pants. <v John Coats>I'll give them a professional look. <v Speaker>[children singing] <v Teacher>What does a good, good black man look like? <v Teacher>What qualities? [children speaking over each other] Do the right thing. <v Teacher>Good and do what you got to do. they do. <v Teacher>Yes ?inaudible name? <v Student>A man who takes care of his family. <v Teacher>What makes a good black man? <v Teacher>He has to be strong. Does he have to be physically strong? <v Student>[children speaking] No. [muffled speaking] <v Kurt Williams>So now we move to education. Education is basic. <v Kurt Williams>That is a view held by most of the world and is the major vehicle by which your <v Kurt Williams>view of the world is shaped. We now have a panel who are part of the education

<v Kurt Williams>discussion. And now let's move along, introduce them. <v Kurt Williams>We have Stan Jones, who is the minority achievement coordinator for Williamsburg, James <v Kurt Williams>City County Public Schools. He's also founder of Quest for Manhood and Quest <v Kurt Williams>for Womanhood. Stan, thanks for being here with us. Thank you. <v Kurt Williams>We have Marilyn Lovett and her credits include an assistant principal and project <v Kurt Williams>director at the Dunbar Irwin Achievable Dream Magnet School and Pride <v Kurt Williams>Program summer coordinator. Ms. Lovett is also a member of the New Purdue Middle School <v Kurt Williams>Principals Association. Marilyn, thanks for being here with us. <v Kurt Williams>Corey Hughes is a 15 year old junior at IC Norcam High School in Portsmouth. <v Kurt Williams>As a child he was involved in the mentor program. <v Kurt Williams>Let's make it difficult for our children to fail. <v Kurt Williams>He is now a mentor to other children within this program. <v Kurt Williams>He is also vice president of Norcom student body and a member of the Honor Society. <v Kurt Williams>All right, Corey, thanks for being here with us. <v Corey Hughes>Thank you. <v Kurt Williams>Quite an impressive resume there for young brother. All right, Corey, [applause] <v Kurt Williams>?inaudible? And Floyd Nedab the third in an instructor for alternate education with <v Kurt Williams>?Acama? County Public Schools on the Eastern Shore.

<v Kurt Williams>Let's get this discussion rolling along. <v Kurt Williams>What is the difficulty in educating young black males? <v Kurt Williams>Jump in anytime. <v Audience Member>Well, I guess I'll take the A shot. <v Kurt Williams>Maybe there isn't a difficulty. Maybe it's wrong for me to state that. <v Kurt Williams>Is there a difficulty in educating young black males? <v Stan Jones>Well, I think if you look at some of the data in terms of expulsion, if you look at some <v Stan Jones>of the disparity in academic forms between African-American students and white students, <v Stan Jones>I think that would indicate that there is some difficulty. <v Stan Jones>I don't know if we can narrow it down in terms of saying this is why it is- I think that <v Stan Jones>the first panel highlighted a number of things. <v Stan Jones>I think that has something to do with why we're having difficulty with African-American <v Stan Jones>students. One of the points that was made earlier was the relevance of the curriculum to <v Stan Jones>the students. I think that's a key issue. <v Stan Jones>If you look at what happened with desegregation, when we desegregated schools, we didn't <v Stan Jones>talk about culture, we didn't talk about multiculturalism, we didn't talk about things <v Stan Jones>that were part of the African-American community. We were too busy trying to get students <v Stan Jones>to peacefully walk down the hall and sit class with each other.

<v Stan Jones>To even take into account that the way we learn, the way we interact is different. <v Stan Jones>Now we're starting to do that, but we've had integration for 40 years. <v Stan Jones>So now the whole question of whether or not integration has had a negative impact <v Stan Jones>on students, I think is a very valid question. <v Kurt Williams>Has- has integration had a negative impact? I mean, let's just go ahead and throw you the <v Kurt Williams>hot one. Has integration has it had a negative impact on educating young black <v Kurt Williams>males? <v Marilyn Lovett>Well, in my opinion, no, it is not. <v Marilyn Lovett>I think one of the issues that we face in education today <v Marilyn Lovett>is dealing with diversity overall. <v Marilyn Lovett>It's bringing together the melting pot of the United States. <v Marilyn Lovett>And so there are a lot of social, cultural <v Marilyn Lovett>and academic challenges that students face. <v Marilyn Lovett>So I think integration within itself has not sent us backwards. <v Marilyn Lovett>But I do think trying to blend from a diverse standpoint certainly is <v Marilyn Lovett>challenging. <v Kurt Williams>Well, what is the problem in educating young black men? <v Marilyn Lovett>Well, again, I'm not going to say that it's specific to just the young black

<v Marilyn Lovett>male. Some of it's socialization, Kurt, I really think that what <v Marilyn Lovett>the students walk through the door with in terms of expectations, <v Marilyn Lovett>in terms of socialization and the standards that exist within <v Marilyn Lovett>inside that institution called school and the conflict <v Marilyn Lovett>that comes by just walking through the door with a set of values, a set of expectations <v Marilyn Lovett>from the street into the school. <v Marilyn Lovett>Very different. <v Kurt Williams>Well, Corey, obviously, I guess you're you're proving that maybe it's not difficult to <v Kurt Williams>educate young, young black men. And how is it that you've managed to not fall through the <v Kurt Williams>cracks? <v Corey Hughes>Well, personally, I don't know. <v Corey Hughes>I guess that I've- I've I made a focus early <v Corey Hughes>in life that I was going to do well. <v Corey Hughes>You know, my peers, you know, some of them tried to help hold me <v Corey Hughes>back. You know, with names like nerd and geek. <v Corey Hughes>But you have to look toward the future because you

<v Corey Hughes>know, you'll never succeed if you don't keep with you. <v Kurt Williams>Go back. I guess- I guess what I'm trying to find out is, is what was it that I mean, was <v Kurt Williams>it your family? Was it your neighborhood or was it just something that was just in you <v Kurt Williams>place by some some relative? What was in you that made you, <v Kurt Williams>you know, just totally ignore, you know, the criticism from your friends about being a <v Kurt Williams>nerdy geek? I mean, what- what- was it you, your family or- <v Corey Hughes>I will say that it was really my family because my father wasn't really there for me. <v Corey Hughes>And my mother and my grandmother were very strong role models and my uncles <v Corey Hughes>are very strong role models. So, you know, it doesn't <v Corey Hughes>you know, you don't necessarily have to be, you know, in that- right- if there isn't <v Corey Hughes>a father in the house, you just have to stay focused that way. <v Kurt Williams>How- how can we- How <v Kurt Williams>can we get more young black males to have the focus? <v Kurt Williams>Thinking of Corey? <v Floyd Nedab III>I guess I will approach from this point that it's in their

<v Floyd Nedab III>offerings that we have four young black men. <v Floyd Nedab III>We've found that we can educate them very well to be successful athletes and excel in <v Floyd Nedab III>that area. They come with natural ability, but we teach them fundamentals. <v Floyd Nedab III>We teach them to understand the playbook. <v Floyd Nedab III>So they have mentals abilities and capacities. <v Floyd Nedab III>So we have to give them some type of offering that will want to make <v Floyd Nedab III>them to excel. <v Kurt Williams>Are you saying public education is- is failing young black males? <v Floyd Nedab III>Not all of the public education is failing black males. <v Floyd Nedab III>It's what the offerings are when they finish school that is failing the young black <v Floyd Nedab III>males. That is the problem that I see in terms of education. <v Floyd Nedab III>When they leave school and enter the job world. <v Floyd Nedab III>What is they have for them in most instances? <v Floyd Nedab III>That is entry level workers, and as entry level <v Floyd Nedab III>workers, they can't see themselves been as successful as <v Floyd Nedab III>a counterpart of the same age of a different race within the United States.

<v Kurt Williams>So, I mean, I think most- I would imagine most people coming out of college at the start <v Kurt Williams>at entry level positions. I mean, I don't think it's just. <v Floyd Nedab III>I mean, what. Well, we don't need to focus on the college kids. <v Floyd Nedab III>We know that every high school program has already built in that they <v Floyd Nedab III>are going to focus on the college bound students. <v Floyd Nedab III>And we find that the majority of our black men are not in the college bound segment. <v Floyd Nedab III>So therefore, we have to put more emphasis on getting them into the type <v Floyd Nedab III>of environment that's gonna lead to a successful life. <v Floyd Nedab III>And we have for many years in education left that segment untouched. <v Kurt Williams>Tell us about the program ?inaudible? that that you're involved in that- that doesn't <v Kurt Williams>always assume that everyone is going to make it to college. <v Floyd Nedab III>In alternative education we have students that have already at least failed 2 <v Floyd Nedab III>grades in our schools and they are 15 years of age. <v Floyd Nedab III>We are- they are recommended to us from the middle school principals <v Floyd Nedab III>or from the high school principals. <v Floyd Nedab III>We take them in on the assumption that we don't know what type of record you have. <v Floyd Nedab III>We are here to help you, to rediscover yourself, to give you that self-esteem,

<v Floyd Nedab III>find that part of inspiration and scope in life, as this young man has, that you <v Floyd Nedab III>can leave us and you can find a way to be successful in life. <v Kurt Williams>All right. We're gonna get to our studio audience. I want to remind you that we have a <v Kurt Williams>resource guide here. WHRO. <v Kurt Williams>Call the station and let me try to see the number one. <v Kurt Williams>One of the numbers is 1 800 8 9 9 9 4 7 6. <v Kurt Williams>There's another number 4 8 9 2700 that's on your screen. <v Kurt Williams>Call those numbers. And there is a resource guide that has names of experts and <v Kurt Williams>programs and solutions that can work. <v Kurt Williams>Call us here at the station. We're looking forward to your call. <v Kurt Williams>Let's get to our studio audience here. And what- what do you think is key to getting <v Kurt Williams>young black males interested, motivated in school? <v Audience Member>I'm interested in motivating the school. <v Audience Member>I think the key is to teach our own first, basically. <v Audience Member>Basically, you got to get your parents at home, whoever's they're involved. <v Audience Member>If you have parents, whoever they're involved in was taking within yourself, like with <v Audience Member>me, I found a nation. Islam was they helped me early on in life and he chose me. <v Audience Member>They said, you know, that I want to become a man.

<v Audience Member>I want to do certain things that I wanted to be better than my father, who was never <v Audience Member>really there. So with our own motivation and yourself and, you know, you know, backing <v Audience Member>from your home, you won't be here to succeed. Where you going to see you can't succeed, <v Audience Member>but you can succeed, which doesn't put like a wall in front of you. <v Audience Member>But we support your family and people around you especially supported you so that you can <v Audience Member>do anything. <v Kurt Williams>But if you don't have that family structure at home, I mean, if <v Kurt Williams>you don't have that family structure at home, you don't have people around you saying, do <v Kurt Williams>the school work, do the school work, that is your key to success. <v Kurt Williams>What happens then? You have you have a comment. <v Audience Member>Yes. I feel as though there's a difficulty.