2008 Congressional Election Debate; Kansas 3rd District; Moore VS Jordan

Oh. God. God. Ladies and gentleman hello I'm Nick Haines of public television and welcome to Yardley hall at Johnson County Community College. The backdrop for Moore vs. Jordan the Kansas 3rd District congressional debate from the crisis in the financial markets to sending American troops overseas our two candidates will be probed and pressed on the hot button issues facing our nation by our team of inquisitors from the Kansas City Star chief political reporter sponte and Steve Cross host of up to date on case you are a fan. And from the League of Women Voters of Johnson County Diane Coon now the star and the lead our copartners in this debate they help devise the questions and the format along with Casey Petey and Johnson County Community College. Now please welcome the candidates Dennis Moore and Nick join us.

So. The Democratic candidate in this race is the man who's been in the job for the past decade Kansas Congressman Dennis Moore. He is a lawyer by profession and a former Johnson County district attorney. He lives in Lenexa. His Republican challenger is state senator Nick Jordan who has served in the Kansas legislature for 13 years. Mr. Jordan is a small business owner and tourism consultant who served as the first president of the Overland Park Convention and Visitors Bureau. He lives in Shawnee. Now why do these candidates actually want this job and what are they going to do in Congress over the next two years. They have an opportunity to answer those questions in their opening statements. A coin toss has determined that Dennis Moore will go first. Mr. MOORE Your 90

seconds begins now. Thank you and welcome all this evening as a lifelong can's and I share the priorities that all Kansans want a safe and secure nation for our country. A top quality education system and a strong economy. And on that measure we've got some work to do some more work to do to ensure that our children grandchildren have the opportunity to live their dreams just as we have. I've ignored party labels for the time I've been in Congress to try to work on a bipartisan basis to get legislation passed and we need to continue that and do away with a lot of the partisanship going on in Congress right now. We have as I said major challenges that we face as a nation right now. The economic situation that we need to make sure that we are not part of this global slide into a recession right now or worse. We have an energy in environments concerns that we need to deal with as a nation right now we've got health care delivery system where 45 million people in this country either don't have adequate insurance or no insurance at all and an education system that needs to be dealt with as well.

But there's still more to be done to ensure that our grandchildren have an even stronger and better country. It's been my honor honored to represent you in Congress for 10 years and I want to continue that and I pledge to you if re-elected I will continue my work on a bipartisan basis for our state and for our nation. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Moore. Mr. Jordan 90 seconds. Thank you also for coming this afternoon appreciate your tendency and interest in this campaign I sure thank the hosts and the moderators today for their questions of my come forward. We're in a crisis in this country we're one of the most critical elections that this country has faced in a long time and every time I think about the selection I think of a story that I like to tell. There's a surgeon an engineer and a politician arguing about who has the oldest profession and a surgeon speaks out first and he goes you know there is a rib taken from Adam and and Eve was created from that rib. Surely a surgeon was involved in that process and the engineer said wait a second wait a second wait a second he said before that there was chaos and out of chaos came order and certainly an

engineer was involved in that. And the politician's eyes lit up real quick and he says aha but who do you think created chaos. I want to tell you today as we look. Today as we look at today as we look at Washington D.C. we look back at what's going on what we see as we see a broken system. We see politicians who don't seem to be paying attention to the issues facing our country today. We have critical issues we've had critical issues for years and they have not been attended to. Health care is not a new issue and nothing's been done. Energy is not a new issue and nothing's been done. We need action now in Washington D.C. We need people in Washington D.C. that will work to find answers and solutions to these critical issues facing our country. I have served in the Kansas Senate for 13 years. One of my accomplishments there is the Kansas bio science initiative passed bipartisan.

You would have another I want to do that if anything that if you your time is up Mr. Gordon and we go to a question is now with the first question is Steve Kreisky directed first to Congressman Moore. Well thank you both for being here this evening. You know both Senators McCain and Obama are talking about these multibillion dollar tax cuts congressman in the wake of last week's financial meltdown and the growing size of the federal budget deficit. Would you support either other tax cuts and if so which version would you support Senator Obama's or Senator McCain's. You have two minutes Mr. Maule. We have a serious problem as a country right now and that problem is we have a ten point one trillion dollar national debt. When I went into Congress in 1999 genuine 1099 it was about five point six trillion dollars almost four trillion dollars has been added in the last eight years by policies that the administration has supported in terms of more and more tax cuts. I voted for the president's first round of tax cuts because at that time we had a projected surplus the president said

let's give something American people their money back and I thought that sounds right to me. But I voted against the second round of tax cuts because by that time the deficits were more apparent and the and the and the surpluses were no longer there. And I'm a co-chair for a group that is involved with fiscal responsibility and we got a rule called pay go pay as you go reinstate a that expired in the House in 2002. All this rule says is that if you have a new spending proposal for a program or a new tax cut proposal Section 1 here's my proposal. Section 2 is here's how it's paid for so it's revenue neutral and doesn't add to our deficit and debt like we've been doing now for almost eight years. We've got to change that. My concern is that Senator Jordan will simply go right along with the president's policies the president was in for a fundraiser for him he's followed the president's policies he's talking about more tax cuts. And I'm all for tax cuts. If we can afford them but right now we've got to be careful about that and if we have tax cuts and look at all the alternative minimum tax I'm looking at tax cuts

like that that we can afford that are paid for and don't. Add to the bottom line deficit debt right now that we're passing on to our children and grandchildren which I think is unconscionable. Mr. Jordan two minute same question. I think when our nation faces faces a tremendous crisis right now this past week a bailout package was passed that 700 billion dollars if you add up all the bailouts we've done the last few weeks where at one point three trillion dollars we're adding 26 percent to the national debt. This country several months ago Dennis is a part of a budget committee in Congress voted to pass out the largest budget in America's history and pave the way for the largest tax increase in America's history six hundred eighty three billion dollars. Now let me tell you what that means to normal people. I was with a group of employees not too long ago at a local company in Lenexa. I was surrounded by five single mothers. They sat there and I asked him what issues are important to you they said Well fuel prices number one the pressure put on the pocketbooks.

Second thing they brought up was taxes it interested me and they knew quite well that there had been a move to to limit or decrease the child tax credits in this country. It would cost one of those moms $2000 it cost another one twenty five hundred dollars. I think it's disingenuous to say there were a deficit hawk when we just added 1.3 trillion to the deficit of this country. We just we just voted for one of the largest budgets in America's history and we paved the way for six hundred eighty three billion dollar tax increase and voted to let the tax cuts of 0 1 and 0 3 expire. I promise you if I'm elected to this office I will vote to permanently make the tax cuts of 0 1 and 0 3 permanent. OK. Joanne. Thanks. Thank you the rules agreed upon by each of the candidates allows for 30 seconds of rebuttal time each missed him or would you like to use those 30 seconds I sure would.

Because Nick knows or should knows of what he said is just not the truth. He's not telling the truth about these tax cuts. The fact is the fact is one I didn't vote was for was to extend the Bush tax cuts which were authored by President Bush and his people to expire in 10 years. And the reason I didn't vote for them was it's putting our country and our grandchildren and grandchildren deeper and deeper and deeper in debt. And he should know that and he should be telling you the facts and not something he wants some political statement up here. Nick Jordan the last word on that to you. Thirty seconds. I just think I heard Congressman Moore say that he wanted to tax cuts to expire tax cuts that expire or an increase in taxes these single mothers these single mothers are going to incur greater costs to up we're going to have a thousand dollars taken out of their pocket that's a tax increase to that. And Dennis voted for a flawed 700 billion dollar bailout plan that added value added to the deficit. That's the truth.

Right. OK ladies gentlemen as we go to our next question. In fairness to the candidates so we can get as many questions in as possible if you could refrain from vocal utterances during the course of this debate we would very much appreciate that the next question from the League of Owen voters Dianne coon and it's addressed to Mr. Jordan do you consider accessible and affordable health care a right or a responsibility. Would you please answer in two minutes. Mr. Jordan. Thank you I think health care reform is is extremely important to the economy and every American. I work in Congress to break down the barriers so that we could have accessible affordable health care in this country again it's a problem that is set on the table for years. It's another part of the broken system in Washington D.C. and we don't need Same with the more we need to start. We need to start addressing these issues. I actually think that health care is a responsibility. But I also say it. I also think

it's a shared responsibility. I have a responsibility as a husband and a dad to take care of my family. But there are people in the society who need help and need a shared responsibility on their health care needs. I think we need to make sure that the most vulnerable in our society are covered and taken care of particularly senior citizens and children in this country. I think there are some ideas out there that will help us bring down health care costs in this country I think tax deductions tax credits certainly can help people better afford their health and health insurance in this country. I think the ability of groups to band together such as an association health care plans will help people gather their buying power and do a better job of being able to shop and get affordable insurance for their folks. I'm a very big believer in safety net clinics voted this year as part of the Senate Health Committee for funding for safety net clinics in Kansas. Certainly a good a good source of primary care for people who are most vulnerable in our society. I think we should make health insurance. Break down the health insurance to go from job to job and

state to state this year in the in the Kansas Senate I strongly supported the expansion of a program called S-CHIP state children's insurance health program. We increased eligibility to families with $50000 income and we kept it focused on families. Dennis voted this past year for a bill for the Children's Health Insurance Program that really open the door for taxpayer funded health care for illegal immigrants by removing the citizenship requirement from that program. OK thank you Mr. Jordan your time is up misstep. More two minutes. I guess I'm amazed that Nick Jordan would mention S-CHIP because I think one of the worst thing President Bush has done as president. Is vetoing the S-CHIP bill that Congress passed and when Mr. Jordan was contacted by a Kansas City Star reporter after that vote. At first he said well I'm not that familiar with S-CHIP when he was asked how he would have voted had he been in Congress he's been in the state Senate for 12

years he should be familiar with the program. Then when they told him what the program was about the civil I guess I would have voted sustain the president's veto of S-CHIP. I tell folks and I'll answer your question. It is a right and a responsibility for people adults. We can't take government can't take care of everybody if you're an able bodied adult let's you have some serious disability or some other compelling circumstance I think adults have a responsibility to provide for themselves but certainly for 3 4 5 year old little children living in impoverished families we have a responsibility I think is a nation to provide for those little children. We have an absolute responsibility it should be a right for those little children that they have health care. And I was deeply disappointed in Mr. Jordan's statement he would have voted to sustain the president's veto of S-CHIP because that is a slap in the face to little kids in this country. OK I'm all coming up a little to see you ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much. You have 30 seconds

to rebut Mr. Jordan. I wish when Dennis would quote me quote me properly what I first said was I didn't know the details of the bill. When I found out the details of the bill I then gave the quote to Dennis mention. The reason I didn't support the bill is that increase the income level to eighty three thousand dollars. It included adults that opened the door for illegal immigrants to be able to get health care in this country based on government paying for it. And he put a tax on private insurance. I mean I did not support S-CHIP at that level. Again I supported in the Kansas Senate an expansion to families of $50000 a year income and focused on child thank you very much more. Mr. Jordan. The final what the final vote on health care goes to you Mr. Miller 30 seconds and I'm not sure that Mr. Jordan's numbers are correct either because S-CHIP is about providing health care to little children who live in poor families live in poor families. Thank you.

OK the next question comes from Steve Klasky of the Kansas City Star directed first to Congressman. Congressman I want to go back to the federal bailout package because the two of you have split on this 700 billion dollar plan it's been kicked around. You mean the economic recovery package. Yes. You backed the package. Senator Jordan does not. Tell me why did you take the positions you take. Tell you what. I'm on a financial services committee I'm on the Budget Committee and I heard from Chairman Bernanke he and I heard from Henry Paulson the SEC or the Treasury about this. And I was not certainly supportive of the original proposition the proposal made by Chairman Paulson because it basically gave him full authority without any oversight by Congress or by the courts. And I and a lot of other people in Congress Republicans and Democrats insisted there be some oversight authority and that he not have total control over this and make all the decisions. And in fact two he asked for 700 billion dollars what was authorized was a two hundred fifty billion initially with 100 additional if the need was there and he had to come back to

Congress for another vote if he wanted the other 350 350 billion dollars. There were some strong oversights put in would put put restrictions on executive compensation I said that to him during the hearing I said you know I saw that's these people at Freddie and Fannie are making multi million dollar compensation I said the people in this country are not going to be happy if we give them that and they're asked to pay for all of this ice and he says I agree with you. And they put some restrictions on on the executive compensation for people in those situations. What we have to do though what we have to do now is go along the reason I voted for this package was John McCain Barack Obama supported it. The leadership on both sides Republican Democratic Party and the house in the Senate supported they almost never agree on anything. And the present United States said we need this for our nation. Maybe Mr. Jordan knows something everybody else doesn't know. I didn't do this to bill up that that meant fat cats on Wall Street what I did this for this vote was

to make sure that seniors who are retired or near retirement people have one case which is probably 80 percent in this room. Don't lose their savings and lose their retirement. That's why I voted for that. Your opportunity now Mr. Jordan for two minutes. I would not have sort of supported the flawed bailout bill after it passed last week the Dow went down below 9000 points on Friday. People of lost their 401k money they've lost pension money they've lost retirement accounts. I think to dedicate 700 billion dollars without having a real plan in place was the wrong move to make. I think we've got to understand. I think we have to understand the core catalysts that got us here and it's Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Dennis is right. He served on the Financial Services Committee for 10 years. Red flags warnings proposals were laid before that committee for 10 years saying Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae at the moment of a

downturn will cause a financial crisis in this country. Dennis chose to follow Barney Frank on the committee and ignore those warnings and those red flags. And we're are at we're out where we are today doing a closed door deal for 700 billion dollars of hard earned taxpayers money. When I added the bailout as I said a moment ago this is a 1.3 trillion dollar bill that we've looked at the last two weeks. Twenty six percent increase in the federal deficit. The bill was full of non-related non-related pork barrel projects. Two million dollars for wooden arrows for children rum from Puerto Rico. Three hundred ninety some dollars for the film industry in Hollywood. We just don't seem to be able to break our habit. Eating pork in Congress and Dennis voted for the bill. What should we have done we should have talked about alternatives over those 10 years if not right before. There are alternatives on the table what we needs an infusion of

cash into this market. When we did the bio science authority in Kansas we needed an infusion of cash into Kansas we came up with a proposal that brought together government and investors and we gave tax credits as investors so that capital could be infused in and help start up companies. You know time is up on that Mr. Jordan. Now we both candidates still have an opportunity to rebut beginning with you Mr. Maule for 30 seconds. I will agree that I was very angry about the Senate version the bill but my option was to vote or not vote but I want to set him straight on something because he keeps saying this he's absolutely wrong and that is Mike Oxley who head of the Financial Research Services Committee up until just a year and a half ago two years ago ran up a bill. He brought it to Chairman Frank they agreed he brought it up in 2005. I voted for it the vote was 3 31 to 90 Republicans and Democrats voted for it. The White House was opposed to it said will have none of this.

So blame the White House and blame your sank you very much most of all if you have the last Would 30 seconds Mr. Jordan. I won't play the White House. I'll blame Republicans and Democrats. You all missed the boat on this one. Nobody. Our Owen is not the end of the remarks that has to stop. Let's keep moving on Diane Kuhn with the League of Women Voters with the next question directed first to Mr. join Mr. Jordan. Do you support taking part of the payroll tax worker's pay toward their Social Security benefits and allowing those dollars to put that money into private retirement accounts. I think given the current economic situation we need to be careful on what we do in reforming Social Security in this country obviously. You know we made a promise to our seniors our seniors have trusted us and we need to keep a promise to our seniors in this country. Now we need to make sure that what we promised them there is available upon their retirement. Let me tell you about Social

Security reform. I'll oppose anything that cuts benefits and I am opposed to anything that increases payroll taxes in this country. But we have to put something on the table that meets at least those two crie criteria. Got to stop looking at Social Security the way we did in 1935 you know we need to talk to our young people and teach our young people how to save for the future. They need to learn about for a while and Kaizen IRAs and different. Options that are available today and they need to be able to take advantage of those. We are not going to give them money if we continue down the economic path we are we're taking enough money out of people's pocketbooks. But we need to teach them how to save for the future. A lot of people don't have access to those options. We have to help those people we have to keep our promises to the senior citizens I might say the economy and government spending really impacts the funding of Social Security. Our spending spree in this government in this in this government in this Congress our spending spree in this country our bailout

packages in this country do as much to harm the future of Social Security as anything else we could do. Dana small two minutes Social Security is a promise and it's a safety net we have to keep We have an obligation to do that and to that end you've heard about the so-called Social Security trust fund. Well many years ago before I was in Congress and the president back at that time the Congress passed a law that said we can borrow money from the social gritty trust fund to use for education for health care for anything worthwhile. It's still a credit it's still an obligation the United States government. The problem is folks almost all of that money has gone from the Social Security trust fund I filed a bill to establish a true trust fund that would say to Congress and to the American people when you pay your money in so shitty taxes that money stays in a social good account can be used only for Social Security purposes it was paid for and intended for not for other governmental programs no matter how worthwhile or worthless they might be. I also in addition introduced a

bill back a few years ago which is now law it passed to raise the allowable contribution of tax deduction for IRAs from 2000 to $5000. We need to take more steps like that to encourage me and the American people and to give them a tax incentive to save privately first for Social Security and for their retirement not misuse me not for so security but for their retirement through our arrays to supplement Social Security benefits later on. But we need to respect and reform the system and stop borrowing from the social or trust fund. And again we have a ten point one trillion dollar debt as a nation. We've got to start turning things around here. You have 30 seconds to rebut Mr. Jordan. We actually have a larger than a 10 billion or trillion dollar debt. Last week we added significantly to it. If we don't quit adding to the national debt and quit passing budgets they're way outta line. We're going to keep taking the key and opening the lockbox and emptying it.

We have to keep the promises that we made to our seniors in this country and the only one we agree on that we have to keep the promise to seniors in this country and we can't let our nation slide into a recession and or a depression. And Mr. Jordan apparently thinks he knows more than the vernacular and the all the Paulson than the presidential candidates and the leadership in both houses. And I just disagree with him. OK. Thank you. I really enjoy the passion that we want to get in as many questions as we can Steve Klasky with a Next question please. My question Congressman and Senators about your individual priorities as you go on into the next session of Congress next year. Obviously America is in debt we face all kinds of pressing needs and my question is Where do you want to go first in this next session of Congress you know is a global climate change is it dealing with the debt. Is it stimulating the economy and tax cuts. Energy independence moving U.S. forces into Afghanistan expanding health care. Where do you want to go first.

Well when the Iraqi government is saying to us set a deadline for withdrawal of your troops maybe we should stop arguing with them and set a deadline. They have asked us to do that. Thank you. We have spent over 700 billion dollars in a war that wasn't paid for. We have sacrificed 4000 American lives and we're going to have untold burdens and we owe these people coming back that have medical needs and we need to be able to provide resources for them in our Veterans Administration hospitals around the country. That's going to take even more money. I also want in a group I belong to this fiscally conservative group wants to pass a law on pay go pay as you go we got a house rule this year and that's what kept our that's what gave the Clinton administration the last two years frankly the surpluses that we had. And after they expired in 2002 we've had deficits with President Bush every single year just calling yourself a fiscal conservative doesn't make it so. You've got to practice real fiscal conservatism if you want to do it that's the right thing to do for our people for our country and

for future generations and so I want that to become a law so it's not so easily changed after it expired in fact in 2002 I went to the leadership of the other party and I said I've got a resolution to reinstate PAYGO. They said Dennis we like your proposal of supplies to new spending but not new tax cuts. And I've asked Greenspan and Bernanke when they appeared before our committees and the fact is and what they've said is that spending obviously cost money and should be paid for. Tax cuts don't always pay for themselves. Some do but some don't. And that's why we passed a rule that required a pay for by eliminating an existing program or raising a tax someplace else. So it's revenue neutral. And so we can start to live within a budget like most families health care we've got a toll to health care education a whole lot of different things we need to be working on and we'll be doing that next year. Nick Jordan two minutes. Thank you my first priority is the economy. That is what everybody's talking about that's what Americans are most worried about right now is the economy and I

think there are several pieces to the economy that we need to address that have been long overdue. One we have to have a full comprehensive energy policy for this country. We have to do it underlies a full economy. It's hurting our businesses it's hurting individuals and we keep being dependent on foreign oil services on radical regimes and in unfriendly dictatorships we have to settle on an energy policy for this country. We have to settle on a health care policy for this country. We have to reform health care so that people have affordable and accessible health care in their lives. We have to get spending under control in this country. And it's always interesting when Dennis looks at me and says you've got to do more than just talk fiscal conservative you have to be fiscal conservative when you vote for the largest budget in America's history in your committee. Is that fiscal conservatism when you vote for 9000 pork barrel projects last year including a 2 million dollar library an office complex in Charlie Rangle His name is that fiscal conservatism. When you vote for pork barrel projects as often as this Congress is and Dennis has been one of those

yes votes I'd say fiscal conservative conservatism in Washington D.C. has gone out the window. We're spending way too much money. Mr. Moore 30 seconds to robots and your tax cuts next that you never want to say no to any tax cut is also adding to our deficit and debt. And again I listen to the experts you listen apparently to your friends out on the street about what we should be doing about this so we want to be able to hear the candidates please. I'd like to have a chance to respond please. I hope that you listen to some of the experts about this because there are equity positions taken for the taxpayers in these companies and I hope and believe we're going to see that money back. Final word for you Mr. Jordan 30 seconds. I don't think we'll see 700 billion back. I am. We have to bring this country into some fiscal responsibility. I am not for wanting to buy a million dollar house and have you pay for it.

Thank you very much we move to new territory now from the League of Women Voters Diane coon. What legislation specific legislation would you support in Congress to support us energy independence. That starts with you Mr. Jordan for two minutes. As I said a moment ago this is one of the most important issues facing our economy is energy independence. I would I would support a full and comprehensive all of the above energy independence bill. We need to talk about solar and wind and nuclear and biofuels. We need to talk about high hydro power we need to talk about geothermal we need a full package of all the clean alternative energy sources in this country. But we also need to talk about American made energy in this country. We have to increase American made energy in this country. We have to allow the offshore drilling. We have to allow drilling in ANWAR responsibly. We need to talk about exploring oil.

Shell areas in this country it has to be a part of a full package in this country. Dennis is voted 22 times against American made energy drilling in this country. He's voted number of times against offshore drilling. He's voted a number of times against Anwar and oil shale drilling. You have to have the full and comprehensive package to be able to come more independent ourselves and not so dependent on those foreign oil service oil services he's voted to tax American energy companies. Who do you think's going to pay for those taxes. You and I are going to pay form and raise our fuel taxes even higher. The bill that was passed or voted on right before they broke it was a sham. Most of the oil 88 percent of it is available fifth within 50 miles from shore. So what did they do. They banned drilling where there is oil and they allow drilling where there is no oil. It was a sham. Dennis when there was a foal and all of the above energy policy setting on the table in late summer

Dennis cast the tie breaking vote to go on a five week vacation instead of addressing this issue and letting that bill go forward in debate. Congressman Moran said he was standing at the microphone to support this full comprehensive energy policy at that time. When the gavel came down the lights were turned off. Do you like your time is that you have a chance to get him a bottle of Mr. Jordan. Mr. Mole. Just hold two minutes please. You know Nick Jordan's been playing my Playstation and been reading my play sheets about a comprehensive energy policy I've been talking about that for the last several years and he's finally saying what I'm saying. And we need that. We need that in fact I had a conversation with the president right after the last election at the White House. I said Mr. President we need in this country a comprehensive energy policy and I would ask that you consider appointing a bipartisan commission for Republicans and for Democrats in the house the same in the Senate some mix of experts on energy production and some real people some citizens to a commission and ask them to come back to you within four to six months with a comprehensive

policy I said Mr. Mr. President. Drilling has to be part of it but we can't drill our way out of this problem we need renewables alternatives bio diesel is on and on and on I said Kansas is the number three state in the nation in terms of potential for wind energy. That's not going to solve the problem alone but it can be a small but a very important part of an overall system come at this from 40 different directions. I said if you go on national television and tell the people what you do what you've done and asked them for the support of the American people ask for their support and say we're going to provide leadership in the White House. There's a bipartisan group in Congress working on this we get the support the American people we can make this happen. If we done it 30 years ago when one president talked about it we'd be in a whole different and better position as a nation now. Unfortunately we didn't but we can't change what didn't happen for the last 30 years but we can change the future and we've got to do that for future generations in our country. And I do agree with Nick on this. We do have to depend to reduce our dependence on foreign oil because that is

dangerous when you rely upon states and countries in the Middle East to provide 60 percent of our nation's oil and the offshore drilling ban expired September 30 so I guess we can stop talking about that right. You knob an opportunity to finish your sentence. Mr. Jordan 30 seconds for rebuttal. Except Dennis you had a habit of following your Nancy Pelosi 97 time the chairman the national resources. Natural Resources Chairman of the House is now saying that as soon as we get back we're going to talk about a permanent ban on offshore drilling it will be interesting if you go back if you vote that way or not. We need an independent comprehensive energy policy for this country. Dennis talks about 30 years ago another president I don't think Jimmy Carter's policies were ones that we want implemented in this country. Thank you. Your time is up Mr. Jordan. But you missed it more. Make fun of President Carter but he proposed this 30 years ago and I we should've listen Nic and I'll tell you what.

You have all of the playbook from President Bush that's added four and a half trillion dollars to our national debt. And I don't want to see that happen in our country please. We now go back to Steve Kornacki for new territory Steve. I want to turn back to Iraq and the two of you your party's The big separation between Democrats and Republicans about how to deal with the future there. Congressman do you support Senator Obama's approach to Iraq which is call for rapid but responsible withdrawal or do you support Senator McCain's call to stay the course there. I would support a responsible withdrawal of our troops in fact I wrote a letter to the president two years ago and suggested that he send somebody not publicly but privately to the new Iraqi government. And ask them to step up to the plate and assume responsibility. If we spend another thousand American lives since that time and we've spent now over 700 billion dollars there are something wrong with this picture. Our deficit projected for this next year is four hundred eighty billion dollars.

The Iraqi government has a projected surplus of seventy nine billion dollars and they're asking us to come in and pay for reconstruction in Iraq. Something's wrong with that picture. And we need to tell them you step up and you assume responsibility we took out Saddam Hussein who was a brutal but Butcher who killed thousands of innocent people. But we don't have the responsibility to stay there for ever and to help a government that's now asking us to set a timeline for withdrawal. We can make this happen and we have an absolute responsibility to our troops in fact I will tell you two bills very quickly. I filed a bill. It's now law to pay for the domestic travel when troops come back after six months in Afghanistan or Iraq to pay for their travel home because the department fence was put in there on the East Coast. It's now law. I filed a bill to raise the death gratuity for people killed in Afghanistan or Iraq. From $12000 to $100000 to take care to provide some assistance to a family who's just lost their breadwinner and a mom at home who maybe has two or three young children

it's now law as well and I had strong bipartisan support 243 Republicans and Democrats signed on the second bill one hundred thirty eight signed on the first when I talk to Secretary Rumsfeld and he made it happen made it become law. And so that's the kind of responsibility I think we have to take care of our people in uniform and provide for our country in the future. Mr. Jordan two minutes. I think there's not a person in this room that doesn't will do everything we can to support our military and our veterans. The bills that Dennis mentioned would be easy bills to vote for. There are some hard choices still and rather than going over the president or writing letters it's better to work in the system and try to get something done. I would I would call for as quick as possible to withdraw the troops from Iraq as quickly as possible we need to get our young men and women out of harm's way but we can't do it and leave the region in chaos. A people that might be subjected to genocide again. And al-Qaida oil rich country. We have to do it sensibly. We have

to do it in conjunction with the government over there. We have to make sure there's a stable government in place in Iraq before we pull out that quickly. Dan. Afghanistan and Pakistan are the next hotspot. We need to listen to our commanders on the ground. But we need to certainly pay attention and add the troops necessary to really hit our true enemy and that say al Qaeda heads that are hiding out in the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan. We have to be aggressive and we have to take care of that. The third hot spot is obviously Iran. And I agree with the current policy that we now have we need to join together with our European allies to put as much diplomatic pressure on Iran as we can on their development of nuclear weapons. But we also need to look at sanctions against Iran if necessary. I think everything needs to be on the table I think their economy is weak enough now that if we. But enough sanctions in place and strong enough sanctions in place we probably could break that government find some resolution to the nuclear power to developing I think it's real interesting there's a resolution bipartisan resolution in the

house right now that condemns Iran and calls for sanctions. Dennis for whatever reason has not signed that resolution yet. It's very very important to the Jewish community locally nationally and in the nation of Israel. Thank you 30 seconds to rebut Mr. Moore. Well funny you should mention that because we were both invited to appear at best alone this morning I appeared and you apparently declined and I was there and talked to them about Iran and I said we have an absolute responsibility to make sure Iran does not achieve obtain nuclear weapons. And I think that they happen. Israel has an absolute right as a nation to protect itself from aggression as well. And I have been a strong supporter of Israel in my 10 years in Congress and I will continue to do that in the future because it is the right thing thank you last word to you Mr. Jordan 30 seconds. Unfortunately I had a commitment to smn orning and couldn't accept the Beschloss invitation. I've gone to several Jewish groups and spoken to Jewish groups but I want to mention I did not hear

Dennis say why he's not signed the resolution to condemn Iran and bring sanctions. Diane Cole one of the League of Women Voters another question please. It's we're talking about Iran. Are there any foreseeable conditions under which you would support a preemptive strike against Iran. As I said a moment ago I think the policy we're pursuing right now is the proper policy I think we need to join together with our European allies. We need to be bringing as much pressure as we can on Iran diplomatically at this point I think sanctions are an option that we can put in place that certainly would bring enough pressure on an economy that's really hurting that we could see a breakthrough there and help in stopping the development of nuclear weapons. I don't think anything should be left off the table beyond them but that's down the road quite a ways I think we need to do what we're doing now and talk about sanctions before we get into any kind of military action. Mr. Moore two minutes.

We have lost a lot of standing in national standing in the eyes of other nations around the world as the policy of this White House has been projected other places. And what I'd like to see is the next president whether it's McCain or Obama step in talk to the people in Israel and also talk to the people at least let somebody there talk to the people in Iran and say this has got to stop. And I agree. We agree on this as far as sanctions and taking action to make sure that they don't get what it takes to build a construct a nuclear device in Iran. We need to take all appropriate action there. But we need to do it I think. And this is the important part again as part of an international group and not just the United States against Iran. We could go to a lot of our NATO allies and other new nations around the world and asked him to join with us in going to Iran and saying this has got to stop you're a threat to world peace by your by your pursuit of the nuclear weapons.

You have a 30 second opportunity for rebuttal. Well I think we agree I just I just wish the congressman would sign the resolution to back up what he's saying. Thirty seconds Mr. BALL. I tell you what Nick I will take a look at the resolution I have not seen it. We get a lot of mail a lot of resolutions when there's 435 people in Congress as opposed to the handful that you have in the Kansas Senate. We get a lot we get we get them we get a lot more OK. So give me a little break here and I'll tell you what I'll take a look at it. One thing I heard and I've not seen the resolution yet. But one thing I heard was there was a part of it that dealt with a military blockade which might be an act of war. OK. That was the break Thank you Mr. Moore. We're going to go to Steve Kreskin now with the next question. Congressman Strobe Talbott the former deputy secretary of state under President Clinton told me last week on the radio that we've got seven years to deal with the global climate warming crisis that faces all of us. What your Congress be doing

next year to address global climate change. Mr. Maule two minutes. We need to take steps. Right away to deal with that I mean renewables alternatives we need a comprehensive energy policy that I talked about before and we need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and find other ways and I talked about Kansas being the third state in the nation in terms of potential for wind energy. There are so many steps we could take right now to address this problem that we haven't done. And this should not be about Republicans and Democrats. And I told you about my proposal to President Bush. It's not going anyplace but I intend to make the same proposal to the next president whether it's Obama or McCain and say Mr. President for our people for our country let's not only address the energy supply situation but let's also talk about what needs to be done to address the global warming situation. There was a guy named Al a couple of years ago who came out and talked about that. He didn't win the

presidency by going he got a Nobel Prize and up and another prize for that. Thank you thank you kind people out there. I just think we should be working together put aside partisan politics here and find renewables alternatives bio diesel. The whole the whole different range of options there and make this happen. Thank you Mr. George in two minutes. Again I heard Dennis say a moment ago of 30 years ago we had an energy problem he's been there 10 years and we still have an energy problem it's just more of the same it seems like we certainly need to have a comprehensive full and balanced energy policy in this country I wish they would have went ahead and debated and stayed in session with a full balanced all of the above energy policy was sitting on the table in the house instead of taking a vacation. This is a crucial issue to this country. We have to take care we have to develop the wind. We have to develop our solar we have to develop nuclear. We have to develop the bio fuels for this country we have to have the full package so that we are less dependent

on foreign oil sources. I think also we need to recognize that this planet is under our stewardship and we need to take care of this planet. We need to talk to each other we need to make sure that we're taking steps individually and as a group to try to protect our planet the best we can that we put into place in our own lifestyles things like recycling and other things that we need to be doing so that we can do a better job of stewardship here in this in this planet. Dennis Moore 30 second rebuttal. You know we are. We're in absolute agreement on the last 15 seconds of what he said there we need to do these things renewables alternatives on and on and on. And we should be recycling it's a very small but important part of an overall program. But we need to get leadership out of the White House which has been totally absent. And the next president can provide that leadership and I hope either McCain or Obama will do that. The last word goes to you Mr. Jordan for 30 seconds. Again I'll blame both Republicans Democrats we've been 10 years 30 years 40 years

looking for an energy policy ending and it's not existent. We need it now. We need them now to have a full and balanced energy policy in this country. We now go to Diane who in for the next question from the League of Women Vote is this Did you or do you support John McCain's call for a $5000 refundable tax credit to pay insurance costs with the understanding. With the understanding that taxable income will now increase because health care insurance payments will be counted as income. What I agree is what I said earlier health care reform. I think we need to make health care excessive full and affordable for people of this country. I think tax deductions and tax credits can work for individuals. I don't think you can turn around and tax them if you give them a tax deductible or tax credit if that's the plan. I think we help people bring down the cost. That way I think we help them band together and have association health care plans in this

country. I think we help the safety net clinics in this country. I think we take care of the most vulnerable people in this country which are senior citizens and children. I think we have to find ways in a market driven reform to change the health care in this country and make it more affordable and accessible. Dennis Moore two minutes. You know we agree on a lot of what he just said because I've been saying the same thing for a while to in fact I had a bill I want to mention this. And I would hope that this is going to become law in the very near future. I filed a bill about a year ago to establish a system nationwide of electronic medical records. You walk into a doctor's office or a hospital in the first thing I do is hand you a piece of paper and say complete your medical history here. And sometimes the patients get all the information right. Sometimes they don't and when they get wrong information on the medical history sometimes it ends up with with the delivery of health services that is not productive for the patient. If my bill becomes law. RAND

Corporation did a study two years ago and said something like this could save over 100 billion dollars a year and reduce medical errors and we could devote that money to providing more health care to people in this country who need it including the kids who didn't get S-CHIP because of what happened with the president and Nick's told you about that as well. We need to do this. It will reduce medical errors by getting accurate information and you know I told people around we have these amazing little devices were developed a few years ago called computers and I just don't understand why we can't use those more physicians and health care delivery systems and hospitals use those computers to assure that the accurate information is there and that the patient gets the best care that he or she can get. The health care industry needs to catch up with the electronic capabilities out there right now. But I think we're in agreement here that we need to provide health services to the people in our country at an affordable cost with forty five million people uninsured or without adequate insurance. That is a

true devastation for for our people. You have 30 seconds to rebut Mr. Jordan. One key phrase I said I didn't hear in Genesis is a market driven reform market really don't care in this country I think that's very very important. I would agree on the middle technology medical technology it's an important aspect but again it's just one piece and we need to address health care reform in this country quickly. It's another economic pressure on the pocketbooks of Americans. Dennis Miller lost what a market driven reform you heard it now right. Steve The next question please. Congressman a recent CBS News poll showed that just 22 percent of Americans approve of the job that President Bush has done in office. While 70 percent disapprove. Consider this a question a call from a pollster Do you approve or disapprove of the job President Bush has done.

Is that a yes or no. Yeah I don't approve of the job President Bush has done. I've met the man 15 20 times he is a very congenial person has a good sense of humor makes fun of himself I enjoy being in his presence. But I sure don't agree with many many of his policies not talked about the situation in Iraq where we've just spent 700 billion dollars and 4000 American lives on and on. I don't agree as I've told you before already about the addition of almost over four trillion dollars of debt to our national to our national debt as a result of his policies and new programs and new tax cuts that he's not willing to pay for. He just wants to add it to the debt and he calls himself a fiscal conservative. The health care delivery system he's not really done anything there either. The economy is where it is I think in large part the don't Dollar City value compared to the euro and other currencies around the world as a result of this horrible debt that our nation has right now. I could go on and on and on and just just

talk about the energy situation which is not addressed. In fact all these major challenges we face as a nation right now. President Bush has not addressed what I think the American people finally see this. I think the American people finally see this. Two minutes just enjoying the early left out of the equation the other branch of government called Congress. We are sure that President Bush's approval rating is higher than Congress's approval rating. See the URL for probably all the same reason Congress hasn't addressed an energy policy. Congress hasn't addressed health care reform. Congress hasn't addressed any of the same issues. You don't you don't wait for the White House to provide leadership if you're elected to office you provide leadership to be sure. Thanks another sample of a broken system in Washington D.C. I don't know what's happening I mean I really do like

Dennis he's a good man but it does seem like Washington's changed dentist more than Dennis's change Washington D.C. Thank you. We're beginning to hear the same campaign rhetoric every campaign the same letters are sent the same bills are proposed. But we don't see results. We need people to go to Washington D.C. to find solutions not give campaign rhetoric. In the Kansas Senate I have a strong record of accomplishment. I coauthored the bio science initiative for Kansas. We're now fourth in the nation in state funding in the bio sciences fifth in the nation in overall funding of bio sciences in the top 10 in biotechnology in this in this country. We've literally built a new leg on the Kansas economy. It takes leadership it takes innovation it takes I did as that bill passed with only four no votes. Talk about bipartisanship talking about going on and working with people across philosophical lines. I've done it in the Senate. I'll do it in Congress.

Mr. Moore you have 30 seconds 30 seconds to look back and if I had been in the Senate and been talking about your 19 votes against adequately funding education in the state of Kansas. So let's think about that as well. I appreciate bipartisanship and what you seem not to understand is that it's a lot different deal in a body of under 50 compared to deal in a body of four hundred thirty five point thirty four other House members. And you could be a lot more effective in a smaller body than you can in a huge house. But I've got some things accomplished I'm very proud of and I intend to do that in the future and work on a bipartisan basis. Thank you very much the last word to you Mr. George in 30 seconds. You know we throw bars back and forth I don't think Dennis understands the funding formula in Kansas for education and how our schools in Johnson County suffer in the bottom in per pupil expenditure. You've got to have fund education but it's got to be fair funding. I've stood for fair funding. Well we've reached that part in our program.

It's time for all candidates to make that final sale that final pitch to you the vote is as determined by the calling toss before this debate began. Nick Jordan will provide the first closing statements 60 seconds begins now. Thank you again for participating today. Thank you again for our host and hostess and folks involved in this forum today it's been a real privilege to be for you. We have a broken system in Washington D.C. Republicans and Democrats have lost their way. They are not addressing the key issues of this country and we are suffering for it. Your pocketbook is being emptied every day. The economy's worse than it was two years ago when Dennis's party came into power. Gas prices have gone up 75 percent since they come into power. It's all a result of ignoring the key policies that need to be passed and done in this country. I want to go to Washington D.C. I want to wake up Washington D.C. And if you like the status quo and you

like the high gas prices and you like higher taxes then I'm going to encourage you to vote for Dennis today. But if you want to wake up or SHINTON and you want a fresh face a new face someone with innovative ideas and new ideas and committed to solutions then vote for Newt. George thank you very much. The final concluding statement Dennis Moore 60 seconds. Thank you. We have to do something about the energy situation we've talked about tax breaks for oil companies and one of the oil companies made a forty four billion dollar profit last year and they haven't constructed a single brand new refinery in over twenty eight years in our country and that's what's happened to the book. And you have supported that kind of thing the people in your party have supported that thing. We need to change this around. We need to start working together and I'm the really do reach across the aisle there to give to reach out to Republicans and I tell people 80 percent of what we do in Congress should not be about Republicans and Democrats ought to be about taking care of our people in our country and I

sincerely mean that. And we need to work together make that happen and we need the leadership from a good president to make that happen as well. And I'm confident that's going to happen in November. Thank you all very much for being here. And Joe knows what so we do conclude our Kansas 3rd District congressional debate all thanks to our candidates and our debate sponsors the League of Women Voters of Johnson County Johnson County Community College the Kansas City Star and KC P.T. public television the candidates have made their case does Dennis Miller deserve two more years in Congress or does Nick Jordan deserve that chance. You want home. We'll finally decide that at the polls on November 4th. I'm a canes from all of us here at Yardley hall on the campus of Johnson County Community College. Good bye.