¡Colores!; 2007; Interview with Frank McCulloch, Cam 1

There we go. Slate it. Alright, so you guys are on. Good morning, Frank. Hi, I came in nice to meet you too. It's a pleasure, it's all mine. We're going to have fun. I'd like to begin by talking about the landscape. Mexico landscapes. They feature prominently in your work. What is it about the landscapes that makes you have to paint them? That's a good question, because for me, I had quite a few times in my life working in just lands, in just an abstraction, or to be a little more specific, non -objective work, an abstraction of nothing, I guess. But I always started with a landscape and New Mexico, New Mexican subjects. And then I always seemed to get right back into the landscape in a sense. And I'm from New Mexico. I was born here. And my mother's from an old

time, New Mexican family. And I'm married to an old time. And New Mexican, my wife from an old time. New Mexican family over in Calab. And so I just think, I think it's in me. I just think it's in me. And that's sort of what I want to do when I'm happy when I'm working with it, you know. Or when I'm out in it, of course. Maybe sketching, maybe photographing, maybe just looking, you know. Can I follow up with that? When you're out in it, what's that process? Do you just spend time? How did these images come to you before you paint them? Is that a process of spending time in nature? Yes. Yeah, yeah. I think it is how it came in. It's direct looking at things. But then it's probably stuff burning in your mind a little bit. And it will come out later in the painting. Sometime from an actual specific thing that I've seen,

a escape. Other times, maybe semi -obstracted from that. Other times just coming out of my brain. But it always seems to end up the landscape anyway. A good idea of composites, like pieces, you know. It seems different. Snapshots, it's interesting by being out in nature and then, you know, they kind of come together. Yeah, kind of come together and you know. Let's take a time out. Sorry. Is there a way to turn that heater or fan off? How can don't move? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't move. It's in the kitchen, honey. Okay. Right to the... When you go in there, right... I see it. It was like... Sorry, you got it. So just turn it to the left. Yeah, to the left. Yeah, just turn it down to the left. Yeah. Unfortunately, it took a little time to go down, I guess. Okay. It kind of forgot about that. I did turn the phone off. You should have turned it here. I forgot about it. Seven of them. Kind of cool. So we had

to do that back Michael's house. Michael's studio tune around home. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was like the air. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, he's it. I don't notice them until they say it. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Can you turn your chair in like that way? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. We're on a wait for it to go down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It should. Crazy here. Sorry. Yeah. We started yandering. No. I think we'll try and pick up where we're at. Okay. Great. Yeah. You're about to re -transition. You can ask the question again. Yeah. I'll ask you to take all the transitions to the next question. Uh -huh. I stayed up about half the night watching, uh, watching the Australian open. Oh, it is. Yeah. Veteran, the doll, it was it was. It was. It was jazzy. I saw highlights. Uh -huh. This morning.

Yeah, yeah, they're getting to the finals now. Yeah, but you know, damn thing you start watching 130 and then you were up to four, you know, I Mean for a thousand mannerer in the other Let's go into bed at six or something Yeah Yeah Uh -huh It's nice to have it as a treat and not to have it to tell the truth. I think I mean we have it All right, here we go. All right. Okay. Still rolling Right the use of color in your paintings is extraordinary They tell me a little bit about how how color speaks to you and works its way into

your paintings. Yeah, I I think I was talking to someone earlier and I think that artists will tend to fall into different categories some are more graphic and and draw the drawing counts You know, and the ultimate thing is Renaissance painting You know where the the forms and and the lines and everything were all set, you know by the Renaissance artists and rendered completely so you had sort of maybe not a painting but a complete completely finished drawing and And then they then they start Tinting and putting on little bits of glazes and so forth and the color build up there and And that would that would be an example of artists They named toward the graphic. Let's say and and then there's the colorists and and I who do we think a band go go again, you know Rembrandt I suppose and And and

I think I've fallen in the category of being a colorist and I really can't tell exactly where my colors come from I've taught, you know, I've taught it and The you know taught the color wheel and the different masses and so forth, but but it's my colors a little bit more intuitive right now but But but that dominates everything and sometimes to the to To the suffering of the drawing just a little bit So every time you have and when I get a painting, I'll always I start with color and start with kind of broad shapes and and and then and then at the I'll get to a certain stage maybe where you're you're finishing it up and the drawing will suffer I might have a tree that looks pretty junky, you know I said I got to go face that tree, you know or that little bit of sagebrush And and so forth so that it just matter of color dominating does that does that tree?

It's begging for the right shape at that time In the in the process of all the color, I might have kind of kind of wrecked it up a little bit in a sense And to the front and the back as is an interesting thing to mention because Because I do use a lot of underpinning and and and quite often you'll have different colors and opposite colors You know for underpinning is underneath or maybe just a warm red or something, but And then I'd like I really enjoy having it show through just a little bit and sometimes getting to more transparent colors on the top So what I want to I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about Not just your inspiration, but who you've inspired so there's a whole cohort of artists They are inspired by your work So I guess a I think to talk a little bit about What is how important is that to you that you

You know that you don't know how the next generation of artists. Oh, huh. Well, I That's very important. I really I'm proud of that I don't think it affects the painting too much to tell the truth I when I was taking I taught I had taught me our department mainly at Highland High for 30 years and and so What you mentioned the inspiration. I think there's a lot of students that I taught that are now full -time professionals I had to come up with a list one time because they were putting a show on and we needed 25 and I think I think I We came up with a hundred or something like that that are that are fully employed, you know in in the art so so that feels very good, but but About affecting the painting right now. I'm not so sure Well, and and I worked all the time I produced art

all the time I painted and to tell the truth A lot of times you traded back and forth with some things that you saw that the students did too, you know It was it was a two -way street very much some well now. I want to invert that question and ask who were your Inspiration to inspire or what inspired you but I probably mentioned some of them. I think I think the colorist mainly the Washington color Washington school colorist in 60s and I think and I can't know and a Jules Olitsky People that were in the the the crowd directly following abstract expression is And speaking of abstract expression Mark Rothko is a big hero big hero just like you're Kind of like yours. You're your sweater But I think to my two heroes and they're a funny pair of heroes, but it's Rothko and probably

Rembrandt Wonderful colors. I mean he he spoke Either one of them spoke so much about color with With a very small amount or the very small variation of color, you know, I mean Rembrandt was Pretty cute of scudo we say What would you say is important about your work? I'll leave it there because I question a lot of different ways. What would you say is important to you about your work? That's kind of hard to to pin point I came All I know is I'm just happy when I'm sort of lost work and you know and The most important thing I suppose is Is what it does to me when I'm doing it? If it if it if it scores afterwards, you know with something or or It's shown nicely or bought of course, you know All of that is nice,

but the important thing is you probably know yourself and your own work is is doing it It's it is to be in it. Yeah, I think a lot of people When I was teaching there were a lot of students say well, I'm gonna do this I plan this and then I'm gonna I said, I don't want to hear that. I don't want to you know, I mean just do it and let's look at it. Yeah I think when artists get together always I yeah, I got this gig at this next thing. Yeah, I think thing thing. Yeah, what about like what are we talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I guess that's great. I went to What is the role of the artist? Oh? Oh Boy, I'm just kind of stumped on that I think well You know, I mentioned you know, I'm doing it for myself and so forth Otherwise

the It's to communicate and And and and if you do communicate by By showing or or by having a lot of people see it or listen, you know to the poetry let's say uh and and and you think you're getting through whether it's a matter of Somebody buying it, which is a communication or a communication with commitment you might say and and and just Or or just people seen it in a museum or a show I I think that's That's that's part of the role Uh another role would be teaching I suppose Uh, but rich involves with communication too That's kind of a simplified idiotic answer, but that's all I can think of right now It's pretty simple The last question

here and say um if you could talk to you know A younger version of yourself would say 22 -year -old Frank McCullough is getting started in his career. What would you tell him? Wow Not too much I I think I think I think I think the result Sort of answers a question, you know where I'm I'm very happy right now um Working and and and and and and having a great wife and a wonderful family uh and Being comfortable. That's a big part of being an artist isn't it? I mean this starving artist thing is for the birds, you know, we've all done it Yeah, yeah If you can be comfortable when you're working, I think I Personally, I feel that way, you know, it's other people don't I know that uh But but but their method is still getting them into This state where they

can produce the work uh, so um So would you say the wealth is in the work? What the wealth is is in the work the wealth is in the work and and and and and having a pretty good human relationship You know good human relationship with your family some people do some people don't some people um Remain single but but but but they still have relationships and communicate Sometimes sometimes Yeah, when it comes right to it. In many ways, we're sort of a selfish bunch, you know, which uh You Involves to compromise Do we talk about time off right? Sorry. Uh -huh. We we're gonna try to find an ending I'd be I started blue that ending You know like Do you think that With your painting you visual art. Do you think that your

music like cross into that somehow do you think you're oh yeah Yeah, yeah, there's something about a band rebel rebel mehicanismo. We say, huh about being something that celebrate Uh Where we live and so forth and that comes out in the music and the art where we could do something about is I'll give you a trap question and then we'll come back to that. Okay. Um, so there's a prep question. Okay So Frank what other arts Talents do you have that our viewers might not know about? Oh Well, I've always enjoyed poetry to tell truth. I better give you a little book or something junk but but and But those are probably really notes to myself and and then and and besides the painting I've always Like working with New Mexican music

the with the older New Mexican and Mexican music and and early American folk music too I surprise everyone so much. I surprise somebody and say you know I can sing in English too So yeah, mostly here in the Spanish, but particularly the the the older Forms of New Mexican music many of which were you know isolated in these villages and and and have been that way for hundreds of years I mean some of them are some of those songs are are 400 700 800 years old and going back to their roots in in Europe so um and and somehow I'm a music I think maybe comes together with um With with with the painting and and printing and so forth and I think it's maybe it's probably all part of being a New Mexican, you know Of having that in you and and and

experiencing the different cultures that we have in the state were particularly The other the Hispanic culture along with the Anglo culture and and uh and and Native American culture also So all of those things come together to sort of make a new Mexican and that's Kind of what I like to be Okay, thank you. Thank you. I enjoyed this Yeah What you think about I almost want to I want to I want to ask I want you to ask Something about like you know I don't know if we should take it the direction of like what would happen if somebody tried to take away your paint brushes or Maybe like is there anything that's gotten in the way of your work? It's some point Like if there's if there's ever been Like almost a frustration or something Just go shoot yourself

No, no, maybe maybe if you ask like if there's you know been kind of any obstacles Oh The like you know, there's the you know for the writer it's like page Mm -hmm. Oh Oh, how do you how do you block a stall? And not in a professional sense, we just talked about how You know, it's tempting for especially your students come up to you like You know what they're doing with their career and you get blocked lots of times in your career It's an artist but when you when is your creativity get blocked, you know Mm -hmm try to come up there So Frank, you know, it's tempting for our viewers to see you have this career in art and make it easy as they often do for

artists So can you tell us a story about a time where you had to overcome You know, an obstacle to creating your artwork? Mm -hmm Well, there have been times when when you have the equivalent of a writers block and and in the painting and Again, I I sort of turned to a sort of a Puritan ethic almost About the best thing to do is just is just make yourself go to work and sometimes you don't do anything you know But but get yourself to this to you know sometime Sometimes you're gonna work in an other art form and in that case the music comes in kind of handy I might work on some on a couple songs that I'm translating or or maybe maybe putting together as an original piece Or or particularly, you know, maybe go get in a drawing group so I can I can I can work with a model where you know where you started going

in and you have to draw for two hours or whatever and and sort of try to fill time up that way And then sort of let it come and it will usually come back, you know That that's sort of an easy answer because I know a lot of people have Have been blocked by for a lot of other reasons But but but it's it's just a matter of Coming to the place for your work and maybe to jack around you don't do anything all day, you know But sort of putting yourself back in an environment kind of waiting for something to happen, you know and And it will usually turn around I might do am I and I might do a bunch of junk to tell the truth stuff. I want to throw away, you know, but But that's what I usually do That's okay. I mean I Yeah, it'd be a much more

Much more dramatic story is saying, you know, I got on drugs and fell off which is Yeah, which I could I could drink it a long time ago, but but and then the work seemed to come a lot better, but but I thought I'd very not get into that too personal and the albuquerie area Yeah, yeah Yeah, I don't want to bring Sometimes people say they told me a story teller and stuff like I say you know, you're gonna write up stuff Well, you know what's interesting to me is that I often said that the kind of a similar Dynamic with writing and creativity with sports because I played soccer in college. Oh, I used to coach Uh -huh, I still kind of weekend work great But no, that's good like a lot of my soccer students Because they get to you get into a rut like you you're playing and you're trying so hard. Yeah, trying to do everything

right And nothing's going right for you, and I'm like take a week off Yeah, it's tempting. You have to keep training of the training away out of it But I'm like do something else. Yeah, it's work for me. Oh, yeah, like basketball For a little while and just give soccer a break for the summer College we were just like five practice a day with a bit of a so in the summer, but you'd touch the soccer ball Yeah, but volleyball we played basketball Whatever and we came back in a spring It was simple again. It was fun. It was simple. We all played better exactly like You can stop doing anything Uh -huh, but be creative somewhere else put push it somewhere else push it somewhere else I had known some I played a lot of tennis and there were there were some kids some guys that were We were tennis coaches kids, you know that have been forced to play all the time and they had great And so Oh, I'm sorry People watching you

You Okay Yeah, we'll put those back. Let me grab them. I'll grab a shot These will just be really helpful. Tell me when you ready to All right, grab You can get the

brushes now. Okay, it's starting. Yeah, okay Ah Oh You can't see in here

So that tree still comes true, you know You know You See what happens to

your shoulder gets right But look at all that movement. I mean that stuff that that that hand lasts all the way through And you work for these transparent colors first at least I don't lose it tree, you know Right This basic start with the basic kind of color sketch Yeah So I'm gonna I'm just gonna stand here and talk to you there for a second to check your mic. Oh, yeah You know, I get an intimate are you No, sorry No, no, you don't have teasing you We need to check that microphone You know, I kind of wanted to ask you like You know, you've been working in Albuquerque for a long time.

How would you say that like Albuquerque's Influence deal like the people in the city Um Well, there's been a lot going on in Albuquerque, you know, I mean the focus is always on sand fan towns and And as you know a lot of the Contemporary artists and musicians and so far lived in Albuquerque, you know, even though they might depend on On it, nor simply because of economic conditions and so There there been some some great times Mainly the artists live in here and there's a good community of artists, but they're like Albuquerque Albuquerque separated out There's a east side the west side, etc. The valley, you know and and and even though the The artist community is here. They're all in different places. So you don't get the feeling of the community Like if you go to a coffee house in Santa Fe you'll get that feeling, you know uh and

And but there have been good times when I think this is a good time right now for the arts coming together in Albuquerque and I do remember the late 70s that was mentioned earlier that was a great time for the revival of the arts downtown And a lot of artists lived in the old structures downtown and those were torn down and And there was that didn't end and there's still galleries and stuff going on, you know But the question again So is it do you think it's influenced your work? Uh Yeah, uh -huh. I I think it has association with certain artists and and um and friends that are artists and I guess it's influenced. I I don't think I'm I'm more of sort of a solo artist, I think you know and it I really like to have friends in the community, but but uh

But I don't depend on a group quite as much as some people do. I don't think. Yeah Yeah, I see it Sometimes I see it in In groups of friends, you know where where they're they're kind of dependent a little more dependent on Uh What they have to say about each other's works and I I Don't do that quite so much Big old sloppy stuff Just lay this out I think he has just two wanted it Sometimes shown that way

Was there real treat watching? Do you feel like it's given away or no no no no no no heck no Okay, let's just We're no more talking yeah You You You

Yeah You You

You You You can

leave it right there Move back a little paint here paint there. Okay, but you don't even have to touch it. I want to fix it Yeah And now you're looking at the paint you're mixing uh -huh you pal it Yep, and then now you're coming back Nice thank you Yes, I'm fine You So now you're gonna act like you're gonna

take some paint to this painting, but you don't have to really You Uh -huh. Would you feel like oh singing something you mean sure? Okay, let me see you you have a problem. You're gonna make sure I picked the right song, right? Let me try some La Okay, oh yeah you thought you yeah, but I like I'll still like it. Oh, okay? Oh By yourself Ya las quiero a cantar, a las canciones, y ante ayer,

recordando a mis abuerros, todo eso se va a sostener, hay romances y corridos, de valor y democion, especialmente para viejo, la indita y la relación, y acantemos en el alba a la mujer y al corazón, Valentina de Radina, por Guadalupe la última canción, hay romances y corridos de valor y democion, especialmente para viejo, la indita y la relación, la indita y la

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indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la relación, la indita y la astrology me seplesia. He synthesized this kind of color .ロ a lot of people is kind of like the OAC and the kind of stuff that we're doing. Or you might think the women are a good thing.

Yeah. Then they start working with, we're transparency. What's the other thing you didn't know? You're pretty organized. Yes. No, you're doing it. I'm going to wash my hands. They're all so good. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Don't send it down directly. I know I asked you, but how many

times do you have to let that painting dry in between? Oh. Well, this painting, the meaning that I use, is dry and pre -past. And then we're thin anyway. So, I mean, that'll all be dry tomorrow. Okay. And I put a black edge underneath it, just a lattice awesome. And then I put that on top, and it kind of makes it all shallow. That's a nice way to do it too. I strum easy this time, just put half of the oak on it. That example though. Well, I had so many friends too. I didn't realize that. I think there's two friends. Did you frame them? So, what I do is, I buy that molding that oak and have it made. And he finishes on three sides,

you know, so it's pretty good. And, title sounds, it's kind of a label. I don't know anything else, I think. Yeah. I think I'm pretty sloppy. Oh, paper. I'm still shooting slides on pieces, which is 19th century. Better lead, but that's kind of my inventory. Okay. And then use a digital pin, which will go like that. Okay? Yeah. Great. Do you want me to hold a piece of cardboard behind that white? Or is that okay for you? If you'd like to, it's a two. Yeah. That's nice.

That's a piece. Mm -hmm. Or I think good. No, I like it. Oh, no, thank you. Yeah, I think that worked right at that scale. It's just, it's fun to... Yeah. I jumped around, and there's a lot... The more you look at it, the more there is. And I like what my... Yeah, definitely, you know, center left, right? That's a real big one. There's... As a big one that I mentioned at the Hispanic Center, it'd be fun to look at sometimes. It's... It's that one, but it's a lot nicer than that. The black one up there. The black one? I call it homies to Garcia -Lorca. I think I told you about it, Tom. Yeah. Or maybe I did. I don't even know. Or, you know. And they got an honor. Nice white wall. And it's really black, I'm black. So it works a lot. I'm real proud of that when I'm glad they... They've had it hanging over there for a long time. Like two years. I mean, it's great. That's longer

than that or at first. Whoa. I went to Garcia -Lorca's house. Right across from the Rose Gardens. Oh. There's these huge Rose Gardens. Oh. Did you get another one? And it... Yeah. Oh, got another one, wasn't it? Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah, that's where it was. It wasn't. Yeah. I stayed in Granada into classes. Oh, did you? It was for Spanish classes. It was for Spanish classes. Yeah, for three months. That's pretty good timing. I stayed. I got one. I stayed in that class. I did not... I took a Spanish class. Everybody's laughing about me. Because I speak Spanish, you know. But I thought... But I've never had Spanish class. I've never had. So, I got into sort of an advanced intermediate discussion of cultural things. So, you know, painting and... Architecture and music. Yeah. All I want to do is just go speak Spanish. You know, I'm there. And... So, she leans to me. You know, she knows because of it. So, I'm talking more than anybody else in the class in Spanish all the time.

And it's getting to be like a hog or a class. And it's easy for me to speak. And all the other members have had a lot of Spanish. You know, I envy them. Because you almost said I was regular. I haven't got that dramatic down there, you know. And... I... I... I don't know if I know. They're like... They're like... They're like... They're like... So, they say... I think that's the problem with my Spanish. It was mostly... And all the members of the class, they have... They have that knowledge in the background. But they're real hesitant. That final step of, you know, hearing it is one thing. But that final step of putting your feet in the mud is tricky. And so... So, I'm talking all the time. Thank you. So, thank you. Thank you.