Evening Exchange; E. Ethelbert Miller Interview

What Miller next evening Xchange. Ethelbert Miller considers himself a literary activist. He's an author poet and scholar. He's currently working on Operation Homecoming Beyond Glory a project funded by the National Endowment for the arts to preserve the stories and reflections of American troops who have been serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. The book Miller welcome to you today was good to see you. Reflecting on your career as a literary this takes me back to South Bronx in New York which is where you were born and raised. Most people you talk to who are what you say to them. When did you start writing seriously and they say well when I was two years old I started writing very very seriously and that was not the case with nice studded rights

to pull me seriously when I was here at Howard University my freshman year I was baptized by blackness making you know this was 1968 and go back to that time you know our society was in turmoil. We had the rights here enjoy in Washington D.C. at the King's assassination. How it had to take over and when I came here to university I got caught up in the whole black consciousness that Larson and I started my little poem. Why didn't that happen in the South Bronx I got the impression you were raised father and a mom of a mom Bobby this and you were raised in an environment and I've always found that about New York in particular. There's so much going on in New York but where we're standing we would look out sad. You know we could go out and play. That's how we seem to be sitting like this you know we see the other kids play. We couldn't go you know what we call them were running the streets right I would have seen we didn't we didn't do that. Also my mother did not allow certain public came into the house from the Johnson Publications you didn't I mean nobody would know you know you know

what happened is that we were just part of it you know I mean when I came to how universe 68 was the first time I saw grits you know who was there and I know this is the soul food you know. But you know I mean I had a passion for baseball before you ever asked of a baseball because I live not far from Yankee Stadium I collected baseball cards I played baseball all the time and I go back and I look at how there was a young guy by name of George George is like the first black guy right. And here I was into Biggie Mandel you know. All of George's baseball still like Hank Aaron Green. People like that and I go back to look at the fact that he was a guy who was way ahead of his time because he was very very good to pride and I go back I would I said well you know it took me how university realized that you knew it back and I was a freshman at Howard University you walk them through a board through reading by the late Starling for sports or reading you have one. Yeah you know that's the thing about

being on a campus like Howard University that come out every time and you know to go to court with Sterling Brown is going to like a happening and in fact it was so many things happening in between the poll we told these quote lives that you know for youngsters like myself I said well he's a fascinating person and then he was one of the first writers who really really generous and then did Sterling rose and then he was a mentor of yours along with the late Steven has you since I'm here with Howard University to talk about the impact Stephen Henderson Well I think Steve in his sin. Before that pride put Sterling Brown do you hear that. And then and then probably hands. What happened is that I was here with incentives teaching classes like soul black identity the black instead and I go back and I look at how his and to him How do you know I mean and it has been like an entire day one stanza of a poem. But you know I look back on those days in terms of when he was developing his theories about the black instead it you know and I feel very

very with him and and the fact that he gave me a lot of credit during the exchange of ideas even though as a mentoring you know there are interviews in which he said there's a lot of the questions that I as a president and Sterling Brown in the interview that he threw in had at one point he learned more than any thing from somebody he described as a tablet. If you're a guy I say that I think I have their ring you know become Mounties because he mentions be like Elaine and save all these people that interns in my life it touches him in a way that it hadn't and I take pride in it in terms of helping to develop the position pursuing Brown along with cavalier because when I came for the story as the portal and he was the official order it was 1984 Marion Barry was the owner of Washington James Earl and James Burley God Marion Barry who appreciated surely telling which one will strongman you know I think that

when you look at Marion Barry else every bet at that time they had appreciation which still I think when you look at what Mia Williams Is that a lot of the Barry legacy many cities across the country have cut the arts but you know this is one city where we look at the revitalization is going on right now and the role that our kids play is because we've had mayors who really knew the odds the same way Mayor Williams you know mother sings to him you know Mayberry loves doing and that says a lot about the orgy and it's assessable and when I think of the problems of Mayor Barry has had since then his ongoing struggle to that point becomes particularly important as a sort of redemption that that wasn't he was not just doing Bret I mean I mean Brad is for everybody. You know I mean Barry has a personal you know but you know that's opponent resonates from generation to generation of black people not just me I know but in terms of his case it's a poem that he can go back to from time they got into this as a kind of confidence and sustenance for his life. As I said you played as director of the

African American Resource Center with a significant role in filming a lot of startling stuff that was later used for people who wrote about storm and and it was said at the time that in order to understand black art and black you have to go to start in Brown because he personified that roots. Yeah and I think when you look at sort of brown you know you take New York having I think when you look at that anthology is documentation to folklore after being human. It collects tradition it is a place to go to. Many people think of doing as a poet but we also have a story you know how you interact with the political individuals and the fact the rates mean there are many time records you get how universal a year in Latin was doing BROWN It's quite intelligent. How would you feel if I said to you you have become startling

except that you have expanded it beyond words. I think each writer you know looks at the generation you know you first is different. I learned a lot and I don't receive it. And as I tried expanded edition of a literary actress I think I'm much different than they were. I think that my ability to network my ability to discover or write it I think it was rated in some of the game for me. Thank you for using Sterling Brown you know in his own words would say well you know this had never happened before as I think that's with them but still there are people who come to Washington and say if you want to know anything at all about two or three you need to talk to you know the people come to see you don't have a man. But your map has taken you. As I said beyond roots. You talk about how you were influenced by the Black Arts Movement in the early 70s and then how you expanded.

Well I have to give credit you know the people you know. You know who I am you know and also I would tell you how universities in terms of its framework. But then what Also Cheney was a city of Washington. I was living in Adams Morgan. I was come in contact with people from El Salvador Nicaragua that change and you know people often one minute the superpowered say open the whole door chilly to me. Consequently I became with the problem rooted. So when I look at what happens to me in the late 70s and early 80s I begin to expand them. And my in isolation in terms of the know we could sit here and pull in Bernies Reagan and you can see Reagan's music expands from the civil rights movement to all these other nations and I think that shows you the habits or not isn't it obvious that I have my I try to take that type of wood and that they know they are doing that in their people. But then he's very much a global and trying to respect you know look it's a when I was in had that sort of vision and that's the type of vision I had.

You can't have this journey with you without asking to read some forms along the way. Would you stop with these the new poets you know Tom Thumb is when you go out to the only black person. Like I came up with the five people and your thumb. You stick out a party of four in the restaurant the waiter borrows a cheer from another table. You share a menu because everyone has one exit you 20 minutes into the meal and you're staring at the ice in your water. What else is melting. You become the third ear in the middle of two conversations when everyone looks your way you pull a joke from your sleeve like a napkin it was on the floor. You have that silly grin on your face that says I'm a minstrel past the brain. Suddenly you have no appetite which you choose because it would show up with reading Tom.

Talk about how you have expanded over the years but talk about how poetry has expanded You did your ascension suits from 1974 to 2000 1974 to 2000 you started it because you believe that there were not enough then civil courts to express them so there were I mean I remember going down and told my friend I think Steve is in with that was it heading of the division of Martin King of Syria and all these poets are reading them and I should have to hope many people black you know the one you think Labrie the Lebanese people the same way I went to Lenny Spencer at that time who organized the program at the Folger Shakespeare Library. You had a midday news in you know 50 60 right. We've never we. And I said Oh there's no black people reading and I have to say in terms of athletes even then it's Vance or Perry you know these are individuals who really would you want to talk to them realizing what African-American literature. I've never seen one I bet if you want a few people who get student got out of his house and do a

reading a text and I look at the fact that at the end and they were able to help me take my stance and series to them on the King Live to the full You live it and open the door a lot. Well under the tent too. And Mike you Rusty has to do and did it because you felt it had run its course or because of what you see as the virtual explosion of a spoken word I'm open. My poor tree slams all over. That made it really no longer is a cyber thing with Robert Fulton the seem to sink ships at the well you realize of nuclear energy there you know at one time you know the sea was very segregated. You know there was no opportunity for people to do and when we look at all these things happen and that's part of economic revival they've got the cap. You know one of the places you know you do have a lot of people before that when I had my second series you know I was pretty much the person trying to ride it but you know after a while I realized why do you think it is other things.

One of the aspects of that poetry that I mentioned the 40 slams and the like is how Portree has become in a way integrated with the hip hop culture so that people feel the rhyming the sporgery the virtually anything that spoken words were true how do you make a distinction between what you consider a serious work and what you can sort of simply playing with this issues very seriously as you and I would you know I do a lot of things that act that I was doing some work in Massachusetts with a message of political will in turn purple. Phillips Yeah and I feel we had a point now where as commissions for them and the audience and to you know that we have to have new criteria I think is poetry. I think this will were I think in the form of you know what I challenge you know my colleagues is that along with creating the work we have to create a group that gets into the fine that you know I feel that I look at how people are using spoken word as a way of violence and I'm not a spoken word I'm a poet in the

reactive not of a foreign port you know that you know and those these terms very wrong and when you're talking about you know how do I know if I'm hearing something that's good with the criteria how do I judge. Well you're a poet read a poem. Leopards kidney disease. It's takes us to the war zone. I'm in the backseat of a car sitting next to a guy with a hood on his head stings. He's got his shirt and pants are filthy. I don't want his digital blood on. I have to go to school this afternoon. I'm in the back of this car because my friends had to make a stop and pick up some this guy next to me is the package. We're taking him across town. My brother's friend is driving. He's smoking and laughing. Yes if I need a new cell phone or a Playboy magazine I turn and talk to the hood the hood

not its head when I repeat the word Playboy. I say slowly so I can practice my language as a cartoonist down the alley. I think of how this man might dream of a nude woman just before death. I wonder if he could free his hands just enough to hang himself there. The kidnap words you and I were part of a generation that glorified the brothers on the block a generation out of which the black was the better part of the gangsta rap. Leda said the problems we now see hip hop culture in the way characterized by the blog to what extent are we partially responsible for that. Well everyone was a lot like him. It was in that part of the day you know I mean this is one of a type of music again I think this is where we have to look at how things are presented to the media this is what we need to ask out of

reclaimed. But what happens is it's not fear to take a term like that and sort of make it as a big label because it's just of the fine everybody's doing one thing at the end you know and it's not certain that gangsta rap. So what happens is what makes the waters and the money will go back to Stevens. One wonders which came first the chicken or the egg by which I mean with the commercialization of the gangsta rap aspect of hip hop that has now become appealing. This is your Woody Allen question. There was a body need to mediate. That's not because it become appealing to a larger and larger group of black young people even though the main clientele for this is why do you go through them and I think what you do you know once you have it you know you work with you. You hopefully lead people back to the tradition. So what happens is that if you are here you know it's very important to know the tradition.

We saw it with some of the earlier you go back to like with digital planet you know I mean when he started doing stuff with jazz then but I do you know if someone came out to Howard you know and what happened is very important you know if you're an artist and you know how to what you're doing in terms of what you know or what you do you have a full knowledge of the entire form so you know you if you're a jazz you might listen to well just take Ray Charles or HLV So it is depicted in the movie Rachel had a pretty country West in this you know gospel everything that's been throughout is that I don't give you your painting you're writing for your musician you should have an appreciation for that. And as a little reacts of this you have gained a greater and greater appreciation as you pointed out for things worldwide things that go beyond words from your travels to Cuba to your levels to Italy and now working with veterans people who have been in the military I couldn't imagine the other 30 years ago doing this kind of talk. Well I WILL YOU WERE YOU KNOW I were I would go through a lot of different and

more I would close the lid which is you know the book festival. You're not sure of the board the Institute for Policy Studies. I tried to to to network and bring groups together that that's how I would raise the opportunity to go in and visit. Well first up someone requests for me to go and visit. So I feel that's and that's and I feel that's a question that doesn't come into the word against the wall. You know this I would get a debt. And so what happens is that when I was over and the troops have been stationed in Iraq and that again it's the first thing that jumped out at me was how young this is. And for me as a father you know. My son is that age I mean there's no draft form so we don't have that fear in terms of where you're going but you know I feel that I felt that I had an opportunity to experience something where hopefully I was passing on sold and sold some ideas that would help and that your memory

of what did wake me up. I did my workshop and through and then the commanding officer came in this was an adult. This is in Italy. Given if this is one thing Mr. Miller for his station and they gave us some good things in them you'll be shipping out to Afghanistan and so you will not be coming back. You need to sit there as I was putting my books away and I said to you know existed to this one would you. Some even that come back and you know that type of thing make you realize you know you're walking in the real world. That did not exist in the world when he called you Mr. Miller to do look over your shoulder and you will miss them. You know I always say part of being a parent you know. I'm fifty five in you know people know me as a burden and they had him in and missed the Milledgeville with my father and that that will always be and that's why my father didn't have a lot of age. I've gotten to know what you in advance of that and I know to advance one of the fifth of the need. But I believe Mr. Millet is

a father and that's that. Well you're part of Mr. Miller's fruit. So would you even support him by the name of the group. I really love the little folding if you'll lie. Maybe it's a figurative. This is cool. When the dictator opened his eyes it was early in the morning there were several prisoners still waiting to be told they were in a cold cell hunched over like brooms apples and blow the skin peeling where Hans had watched him and the dictator you know and scratched himself with the media could not see. Lately too many things in the country were going unreported. No one compiled a list of nightmares refrigerated by the prudes. The dictator pushed aside as a blanket that it was democracy its own people would begin to leave a bad taste in his mouth. On the table he's been in

a reading group you mentioned earlier. You like to bring people together that's how you were raised but I'm not sure that's how you will raise I think a lot of ways that's how you invented yourself. Where does that come from. To bring people together it has characterized the entire adult life in Washington if you I was going to visit and I didn't been myself here in a lot of the debating ways to you know what happens is and we had a time when one can invent themselves and what I try to do is live a life of service. I've you know that it's very important to bring people together. I tried to switch myself and think outside of the box you know in Europe and I was joking with a friend of mine about this thing that immigration and I seldom if it will you know when we pass borders me it was just put this book out and we got the Internet and we went to Borders thing you know and looking at the hemisphere you know when you look at the heavens with with symbol of what they have is

you know George Washington. So we begin to look at the entire American the same way somebody wrote into Sports Illustrated a couple weeks ago about that not that many African-Americans playing baseball. As I said You mean there's not that many people speak English it's doing very well with a lot of black people. Speak Spanish you know and it is another way of looking at you know what we call in the middle right now of having one foot in the future would like DNA and another foot in the past if you want to be warlords You know it's like when we think back to the future type of things and you can't help seeing the irony of the same time the nation that's talking about globalization in this in this talking about protecting the border right makes no sense it makes them the same and to me it makes them sick and what happens is that this is where you see the technology just recently ahead of the global thing the same way you example you go on TV since the government is quote Pat Robinson if the aliens come bad tomorrow you know they're the devil no

you know that me is the only way you can exist the mathematics of AIDS you say when we I know I know the devil is out. You might be a lawyer you know what kind of. Do you imagine your chairmanship of the board of the Institute for Policy Studies is kind of the most overtly political role of a mill you have that doesn't necessarily mix art and politics this is more I suspect about politics than it is about and you know however you do so much in terms of bringing together. Now taking that rule on its own. When do you find time to like and when they would you know. I've talked to a number of people in my life one person who told me a couple months ago was Mark Preston Marcus Wesson rounded by that I played it in my resume late at night. You know that the one and said Dad I will always remember said I did the best you were given and I think writing which might be

sated at a time when the minute you know you get a call it says of the me that I remember be like and it's in you know that when somebody reads you have died and I take pride in what year. People did change my life. Mark what have you done to me. It's a place that you know I've always felt welcome. It was a place that I met like Allen Ginsberg that you and for me at this particular time as an African-American and you so you would want to lead and I take that. I think that I think I did so be to meet that relaxed demain. There's a great deal of drive and a lot of energy because obviously you don't sleep more than you know whether you've traveled the world. You've written about the war. What do you plan on like driving a car.

I don't is investing but are there many of us out there you know waiting for the spaceship to come that's going to take you think as we've seen what happens is you know I mean you know the people human when when they can use them around the south and get them by gravity. And so I don't think that that is as we look at the fact now the book my children drag you know. And so I think Brad now well what we take pride in the word movie is you thank you for walking among us. Thank you for talking among us. Thank you for Google to thank you. That's it for this edition of the evening exchange. I'm Kojo Nnamdi stay well. Good night.