Who's Supporting the Kids?

<v Narrator>The following program is made possible by a grant from the Corporation <v Narrator>for Public Broadcasting. <v Speaker 1>Just have several other expenses. <v Speaker 1>I've just tried to pay everybody something. <v Speaker 1>Just did not - <v Curtis Person>Everybody but your child. <v Speaker 1>Yeah. <v Curtis Person>Put your child last. <v Speaker 1>Not -. <v Curtis Person>In effect. <v Speaker 1>In effect, yes, sir. <v Curtis Person>Well, how you are you barely making it? Where are you getting the money to barely make <v Curtis Person>it? <v Mr. Greer>Right now, I'm just living with my mother. <v Curtis Person>Mothers are wonderful institutions, they support little children and grown men. <v Lawyer 1>This is like got a long history. I've been down here time and time again, <v Lawyer 1>each time supposed to get some money for this lady's child.

<v Lawyer 1>He doesn't do anything. The only thing we have is promises. <v Lawyer 1>We never seem to get any money out of it. <v Speaker 3>?inaudible? <v Speaker 3>keep your ?inaudible? <v Speaker 4>Hey, hey! <v Speaker 3>Just don't put your hand on me no more. <v Narrator>Easy divorce, set loose in the 60s, has soared to new heights <v Narrator>and left millions of the nation's children in limbo. <v Narrator>They're usually confused, frequently uprooted and too often short on financial <v Narrator>support. Government figures now put taxpayer support for other <v Narrator>people's children at about $9.4 billion. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>I think unquestionably that the willful failure to be bad for children and

<v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>the interstate flight to avoid supporting children <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>is one of the greatest social problems of our of our times. <v Narrator>It was the taxpayer burden that prompted the 1975 legislation <v Narrator>that required all states to crack down on absent parents, mostly fathers <v Narrator>who were behind in their court ordered child support for welfare and private cases <v Narrator>and for children born in and out of wedlock. <v Narrator>The states responded by making it easy. <v Speaker 5>Good morning. I'd like to pay my child support. <v Speaker 5>My visa, please. <v Narrator>In Westchester County, New York, you can charge child support to a credit card. <v Narrator>And, by making it hard, more and more delinquent fathers end up in jail. <v Speaker 6>As far as I know, he didn't pay. <v Narrator>A stepped up system seemed to generate as much hostility as money, and both men and women <v Narrator>are organizing to fight the system - <v Speaker 7>With the men that you caught, then they can't do anything. <v Narrator>The women to insist on still stronger enforcement, and men to claim discrimination

<v Narrator>by the courts. <v Speaker 8>The judge characterizes himself as a male chauvinist, and he says he puts women up on <v Speaker 8>pedestals. <v Narrator>Success in collection varies, and most experts say that finally it's <v Narrator>the judge who makes the difference. In Memphis and Shelby County Juvenile Court in <v Narrator>Tennessee, Kenneth Turner makes a difference. <v Narrator>He's nationally known as a judge who takes child support very seriously. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>I've never been opposed for reelection. I've just re-elected to an eight year term. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>I don't know what the future will bring. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>But I intend to serve out that eight years doing just what I've said I would <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>do when I was first elected ?inaudible? years ago, and that is enforce parents <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>responsibilities. <v Speaker 9>Does he have any unusual features, or anything about him we could use to indentify him? <v Speaker 9> <v Speaker 10>What's going to happen is if you don't show up in court down there, they're gonna issue a <v Speaker 10>warrant for you. <v Narrator>In Memphis, the child support agency is in the juvenile courthouse, and from parent <v Narrator>location to court appearance, Turner can stay in touch.

<v Narrator>In court, six referees preside for him, as he puts it, in his image. <v Narrator>Chief referee, Curtis Person. <v Curtis Person>I think if any one of us got out of tune with that policy that's been established, which <v Curtis Person>is a tough policy for strict enforcement of child <v Curtis Person>support, then I think we would have to go someplace else. <v Curtis Person>Mr. Page, you've been in the courtroom now for almost an hour. <v Curtis Person>You've heard what I've said to the other defendants. It all applies to you. <v Curtis Person>You have an equal obligation where this child's concerned. <v Curtis Person>You're going to have to keep your payments up to date and stop coming down here. <v Curtis Person>You built a bad record, you've already had four complaints. <v Curtis Person>Nothing is more important than taking care of your minor child. <v Mr. Page>Yes. I mean, I paid it the best I could. <v Mr. Page>As far as the amount that's due, I didn't think it was that much. <v Mr. Page>By my records, I thought it was $125. <v Mr. Page>And I've gotten two different amounts, and according to <v Mr. Page>-. <v Curtis Person>Mr. Page, just pay it monthly like you're supposed to and you won't have to worry about <v Curtis Person>all that.

<v Curtis Person>You're in contempt of court and will be confined to the Shelby County jail until you've <v Curtis Person>paid the total arrears of $285. <v Curtis Person>Note, the payment will be due between now and the end of the month. <v Narrator>Investigators call these the cases that never <v Narrator>close. <v Curtis Person>And you do it all by yourself without any help from the father. <v Curtis Person>But if she can work, Mr. Greer, you can work and help the child, too. <v Mr. Greer>If I I can find a job. <v Curtis Person>Would you like to go to jail, Mr. Greer, would you rather go to jail in place of work? <v Mr. Greer>No, sir. <v Curtis Person>When you go out and do part time work and you get money to barely make it on your own, <v Curtis Person>then you've got to share some of that with your child. <v Curtis Person>And you don't ever seem to want to do that. <v Curtis Person>I know you've heard all these things before, Mr. Greer, because you have really been down <v Curtis Person>here a lot. Far too many times. <v Narrator>Chief referee, Curtis Person. <v Curtis Person>The only time they seem to close is when the children finally reach the age of majority. <v Curtis Person>Because these parents, these have been back to the court for

<v Curtis Person>8, 10, 12 and 20 and even sometimes 30 times. <v Curtis Person>These people are just going to do everything they can to avoid their responsibility where <v Curtis Person>their children are concerned. <v Curtis Person>This is a $50 weekly support order for two minor children. <v Curtis Person>It's been in this court since 1980. <v Curtis Person>Mr. Clemens has apparently never paid anything through the court for the past year. <v Curtis Person>Mr. Clemens, you're twenty six hundred dollars behind. <v Curtis Person>Where do you work? <v Mr. Clemens>I work for Hart's manufacturing. <v Mr. Clemens>I've been there about four or five months, I was out of work for three months this <v Mr. Clemens>spring, I was out of work for over three months last fall. <v Mr. Clemens>I don't have the money. <v Curtis Person>Are you working now? <v Mr. Clemens>Yes. And I haven't had -. <v Curtis Person>Full time? <v Mr. Clemens>Yes. <v Curtis Person>How much money did you bring today? <v Mr. Clemens>How much money did I bring today? <v Curtis Person>How much do you have in your pocket? <v Mr. Clemens>I got a little over a hundred dollars. I just gave her 30. <v Mr. Clemens>I gave her 60 two weeks ago. <v Curtis Person>Mr. Clemens, the court is going to let you pay $100 today as a purge payment. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>But the only way that we can get at some of these people is simply by

<v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>sending them to jail and saying, look, you you can get out of jail if you pay this amount <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>of money. The court is determined that you could have payed this. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>You should have paid it. You haven't. You're in contempt of court. <v Curtis Person>- $300 ?inaudible? your payments increase from 50 to 70 dollars <v Curtis Person>?inaudible? Monthly on a catch up plan until you pay off the balance. <v Speaker 2>So that's ?inaudible? police? <v Curtis Person>Yes. <v Speaker 2>How long would I stay in jail for $300? <v Curtis Person>You have the keys to the jailhouse door in your pocket. <v Curtis Person>You'll stay there until you pay $300. <v Speaker 2>All right ?inaudible? <v Narrator>Child support is not child's play here in Memphis. <v Narrator>Judge Turner believes in jail. <v Narrator>The jails are called Turner's tanks and a litany of hard luck and hurt feelings <v Narrator>won't stay the sentence. However, these are not common criminals. <v Narrator>And the judge says most don't stay locked up for long. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>Ninety eight percent will pay within a matter of hours. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>They get on the phone and call their friends or rake up the money somewhere. <v Police officer>Brown shoes, blue jeans, light blue shirt. <v Narrator>Turner says his methods are cost effective and collection this year will top $12

<v Narrator>million, with a third of that going back to the state and federal governments to <v Narrator>reimburse them for aid to dependent children. <v Narrator>But aggressive investigators here, as elsewhere, are hard put to locate the culprits <v Narrator>in child support cases. <v Investigator 1>I've got a warrant here on my desk for his arrest. <v Investigator 2>Are you his baby's mother? <v Investigator 2>Oh, I see. <v Investigator 1>He didn't live there. You know, do you know where he stays at? <v Investigator 3>About your child support payments. Evidently what's happened is you've gotten behind on 'em. <v Investigator 1>California. When's the last time you saw him? <v Investigator 3>What's the woman's name on the other case? <v Investigator 1>And you ain't seen him in three years. <v Investigator 1>All right. Thank you. <v Investigator 1>Probably him. <v Narrator>Undaunted, the child support team took out a double page ad in the two daily newspapers <v Narrator>naming the 3,200 worst offenders and asked for information about them. <v Narrator>It got results and they plan to do it again. <v Speaker 12>If there's -.

<v Narrator>Another move that shakes out and shakes up fathers in hiding is the periodic daybreak <v Narrator>raid. <v Speaker 13>Weapons? Remember our code on weapons? <v Speaker 13>The only time we use them is in our own defense or to protect somebody else. <v Speaker 13>We don't have fleeing felons in our particular situation. <v Speaker 13>OK. Assignments are made. <v Speaker 14>When the public is made aware of what we're doing, they are very appreciative. <v Speaker 14>On a TV program the other day and the camera man at one of our local stations asked <v Speaker 14>me about our B-Men. I said, what do you mean, our B-Men? <v Speaker 14>He said, your break-in men. You know, the dudes who come out and knock on your door at <v Speaker 14>4:30, 5 o'clock in the morning, get you out of bed if you had made your child support <v Speaker 14>payments. So it has its humorous side. <v Police Officer 2>Open the door. <v Narrator>The humor may be lost on the unsuspecting offender pulled from his house in the early <v Narrator>morning mass arrest. <v Speaker 14>The best time to catch anyone for service of process, be <v Speaker 14>it a summons or a warrant, is in the early morning hours before they have a chance to

<v Speaker 14>leave their place of residence. <v Police Officer 2>The sheriff's department. Is Anthony here? <v Police Officer 2>Huh? We need to talk to him. All right. Thank you, ma'am. <v Anthony>How you doing, man. <v Police Officer 2>Anthony? We got a warrant for you here on your child support. <v Speaker 14>A great many will turn themselves in. <v Speaker 14>That's just like the results we got when we ran this large ad in <v Speaker 14>the newspapers, when Lord only knows how many are paying child <v Speaker 14>support because I don't see the names in the paper again or <v Speaker 14>who don't want us - our officers back out there on the doorstep at dawn. <v Narrator>The raids reap a courtroom full of offenders. <v Narrator>Election results bear witness to public approval, but critics feel that arrearages should <v Narrator>be dropped and that frequent jailings of the depressed and oppressed constitute one <v Narrator>more blow in these hard times. <v Narrator>Attorney John Donald. <v Attorney John Donald>One of the things that we fail to take note of today is the economy. <v Attorney John Donald>People are looking for jobs, there just aren't any jobs out here. <v Attorney John Donald>If you look at the socioeconomic level of the parties coming in,

<v Attorney John Donald>you consider the fact that most of them are high school dropouts, what have you, without <v Attorney John Donald>skills. In many cases, you know, they gonna have a difficult time finding any kind <v Attorney John Donald>of employment. You will find that people will go out and through relatives <v Attorney John Donald>or somebody will borrow some money to purge themselves. <v Attorney John Donald>The minute they borrowed that money to purge themselves, they're in debt. <v Attorney John Donald>Once they get out, they spend the rest of the time trying to pay that money back and <v Attorney John Donald>they'll come back to court again on a contempt citation and the cycle goes over and over <v Attorney John Donald>and over. So it's not uncommon to see so many people coming for this pool. <v Police Officer 3>?inaudible? <v Narrator>It's true that most of those in Turner's courtroom are black, eratically employed and <v Narrator>without a garnisheeable salary. <v Narrator>But increasingly, more and more middle and upper income couples go to court over <v Narrator>delinquent child support. An estimated 30 percent of fathers in this group <v Narrator>pay no support. <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>A person who is average, middle income or well-to-do <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>with assets and roots, they cannot

<v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>escape unless you just have a lenient court that won't enforce child <v Judge Kenneth A. Turner>support orders. <v Curtis Person>Are you ready for Mr. Keithley to testify? <v Lawyer 2>Yes, your honor. <v Narrator>Carol Keithley said the circuit court that granted her divorce wouldn't or didn't <v Narrator>enforce the child support order. <v Narrator>So she transferred her case to Kenneth Turner's juvenile court. <v Speaker>Is the child in school? She is in kindergarten at Lausanne. <v Speaker>Her tuition is provided as part of the cost of my job. <v Speaker>I, however, have to pay for her lunch cost, an activity <v Speaker>fee, a workbook fee which totaled was approximately $465, $475 per <v Speaker>nine month school year. <v Carol Keithley>I'm compelled to do this. This is something that I have to do for her sake. <v Carol Keithley>Not that the money probably would make that big of a difference. <v Carol Keithley>Of course it will help. <v Carol Keithley>But it's - it's a sense - It's really it's a sense of outrage that here he <v Carol Keithley>has walked away from all the responsibility and seeks none of <v Carol Keithley>it. Not to see her, not to interact with her, but I

<v Carol Keithley>think there is a sense of outrage involved and that you sort of get righteously <v Carol Keithley>indignant. And that helps to put the emotionalism aside <v Carol Keithley>because I don't wish him any ill will. <v Carol Keithley>All I want him to do is to live up to his responsibilities. <v Lawyer 2>If Mr. Keithley were able to pay, do you think it's fair for him to pay half of the <v Lawyer 2>experience of raising this child? <v Carol Keithley>It would be nice. <v Lawyer 2>Your Honor, I think if we were to ask 250 a month subject to Mr. Keithley's <v Lawyer 2>ability to make payments - It is - I understand he is out of work. <v Lawyer 2>However, I think proof will show he hadn't made any payments even when he was working. <v Carol Keithley>We notified him by letter of exactly what our intent was. <v Carol Keithley>And then we gave him 90 days beyond that. <v Carol Keithley>And he - his response to the letter was, it's very hard. <v Carol Keithley>You know, you shouldn't ask me to do this, but I'm going to do <v Carol Keithley>it. And of course, nothing ever materialized. I have received many phone calls. <v Carol Keithley>You know, there's a check for so-and-so in the mail and so on.

<v Carol Keithley>And so I ignore all of that. I anticipate nothing. <v Curtis Person>State your name. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Gary Wayne Keithley. <v Curtis Person>Mr. Keithley, are you working? <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Not presently, no sir. <v Curtis Person>Are you going to work any time soon? <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Yes, sir, as soon as I can. <v Curtis Person>Where? <v Gary Wayne Keithley>I don't know at this point. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>I'm not gonna say that it was not fair. I am going to say that the type of notification <v Gary Wayne Keithley>they give you does not really tell you what you're in for when you get there. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>If I'd had an attorney and we'd had some time to prepare for this, I think it might have <v Gary Wayne Keithley>been a little different. <v Curtis Person>But yet you didn't contribute anything. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>No sir, I did not, I contributed the first six months of the year. <v Curtis Person>So why not? <v Gary Wayne Keithley>I had many other expenses that - of course, I'm not making an excuse. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>I have been in and out of other court rooms other than this one for other reasons. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Right now, I'm fighting a federal tax indictment and - Just <v Gary Wayne Keithley>have several other expenses. I've just tried to pay everybody something and just did not -

<v Curtis Person>Everybody but your child. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Yeah. <v Curtis Person>Put your child last. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Not g-. <v Curtis Person>In effect. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>In effect, yes, sir. <v Narrator>Do you think you might end up in jail? <v Gary Wayne Keithley>No. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>No, not at all. Well, I <v Gary Wayne Keithley>suppose I would've found an attorney regardless of the fee, to have prevented <v Gary Wayne Keithley>that. Oh. <v Curtis Person>How do you get around? <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Well, presently I have to rely on somebody else, but before I broke my <v Gary Wayne Keithley>leg, I just didn't get around - ?inaudible? <v Curtis Person>Well, your parents are supporting you at the present. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Basically, right now. Yes. <v Curtis Person>And when you say basically right now, what does that mean? <v Gary Wayne Keithley>It means the rent on my apartment's paid as well as the utilities -. <v Curtis Person>And what about your food? <v Gary Wayne Keithley>The food is provided. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>This is miserable. At 36 years old, this is horrible to sponge off mama and papa. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>It's ridiculous. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>To me, they are now paying child support. <v Curtis Person>We're going to set your support at $250 a month. <v Curtis Person>You're going to start the first support payment in the month of November.

<v Curtis Person>That means that that'll give you the rest of this month, <v Curtis Person>that will give you the month of October to make arrangements so that you can start paying <v Curtis Person>that amount of support. <v Curtis Person>You make those payments by money order to the clerk of this court. <v Curtis Person>Do not pay her directly. <v Carol Keithley>I fully expect that in light of yesterday's decision by Senator Person in the <v Carol Keithley>courtroom that he's eventually going to leave the state of Tennessee. <v Carol Keithley>I expect this to happen. I do not expect to see the money that <v Carol Keithley>was awarded. <v Carol Keithley>It was, in my mind a moral victory, if nothing else. <v Carol Keithley>I'm very fortunate in being a pretty strong woman, very independent, enjoy <v Carol Keithley>being able to try to control my life so far as I'm able. <v Carol Keithley>Good afternoon. How are y'all, what are you all doing here so late in the day? <v Carol Keithley>I'm the administrator of a Montessori school, which is the elementary division at <v Carol Keithley>Lausanne and a couple of afternoons a week, I teach piano.

<v Carol Keithley>And now watch out for your rhythm patterns when you get right down here. <v Carol Keithley>Okay. <v Carol Keithley>Everything changes and circumstances change and people change. <v Carol Keithley>You just gotta be flexible enough to sort of roll with the punches. <v Carol Keithley>?inaudible? <v Carol Keithley>Now let's see what we've got. What's that? Lookit there, now there's some good pictures of your daddy. And there's your Uncle Daryl, your Aunt Susan - <v Carol Keithley>I was at home with her and didn't have the responsibility of knowing that I was the one <v Carol Keithley>that had to keep a roof over our heads every month. <v Carol Keithley>And when all of a sudden that is your responsibility, you undergo a rather major <v Carol Keithley>upheaval. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Carol said she never really wanted anything economically that she didn't get. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>I bought her a house before we got married. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Fully furnished. We always drove new cars, there were anywhere from <v Gary Wayne Keithley>two to four of them in the driveway all the time.

<v Gary Wayne Keithley>She always had plenty of clothes. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Of course I had the income to pay for all that. <v Gary Wayne Keithley>Now Rebecca had everything that she could possibly have wanted. <v Carol Keithley>It was very difficult to go down the end of July and to <v Carol Keithley>swear out - basically, I'd say that's not a warrant, but to swear out <v Carol Keithley>this information against him, because I knew that he was unemployed. <v Carol Keithley>I knew that he had recently either quit or lost his job, and I'm not sure <v Carol Keithley>of which, I don't believe I'll ever know. <v Carol Keithley>But it was a very difficult thing to do. <v Carol Keithley>But yes, I think I'd do it again. <v Carol Keithley>Mm hmm. Look at your daddy, all dressed up. <v Carol Keithley>He has on a tuxedo. <v Carol Keithley>He fails to pay because we ordered him to pay through the court. <v Carol Keithley>The court is the one that takes the next step. <v Carol Keithley>And so he basically lifted that burden from my back. <v Narrator>Director of the Family Institute of Westchester in New York, Elizabeth Carter, <v Narrator>says research shows that children of divorce do precisely as well as their mothers

<v Narrator>do. <v Elizabeth Carter>So that if you have a depressed mother who <v Elizabeth Carter>doesn't accept the divorce and is devastated by it and can't get the reins <v Elizabeth Carter>of her life in her own hands, you have - you have children with trouble. <v Elizabeth Carter>If mother's able to recover, put - gets get it in <v Elizabeth Carter>perspective and get on with her life, then the children do very well, and in fact, <v Elizabeth Carter>do better than children in an intact family where the parents are bickering. <v Jackie Leick>With the house and being on AFDC, I feel that <v Jackie Leick>he has control in my life and really the government does, too. <v Jackie Leick>You know, they're they're supporting my children. <v Jackie Leick>They call all the shots. <v Speaker 15>I teach. So, I mean, I do have an income, but we live in genteel poverty. <v Speaker 15>I mean, I have five children. And it became an issue with me that <v Speaker 15>I had to make an attempt because with three sons, I don't want <v Speaker 15>them to grow up and think that they can do the same thing their dad did. <v Narrator>The poverty picture in America is the image of women, single heads of household,

<v Narrator>sole support of minor children. <v Narrator>The court-ordered child support may have been modest and inadequate to begin with, <v Narrator>but now half these women get only part of that support due them, and over 1.2 <v Narrator>million received none at all. <v Jackie Leick>I was working under the Displaced Homemaker program, which was a federally funded <v Jackie Leick>program. <v Narrator>In Wisconsin one month after her divorce, <v Narrator>32-year-old Jackie Leick went on welfare. <v Narrator>She has custody of three minor children. <v Jackie Leick>But I felt I have to have a little self-respect. <v Jackie Leick>I had to go on AFDC because there was no support. <v Jackie Leick>And now because I've worked for four months, they <v Jackie Leick>cut my grant by $100 dollars a month. <v Jackie Leick>Plus my hours are up the first of March, so I had to cut my hours so I would still have <v Jackie Leick>some type of income coming in. <v Jackie Leick>So. <v Jackie Leick>It's like if he would just pay us support, whatever I did would cover <v Jackie Leick>the difference. You know.

<v Jackie Leick>And I haven't really quite figured out for February <v Jackie Leick>and March how we're gonna make it. <v Jackie Leick>[laughs] Financially. <v Narrator>Six months after the divorce was final, Jackie is still surprised that payments to <v Narrator>the court are so sparse and sporadic. <v Jackie Leick>I think I went through the hurt stage. <v Jackie Leick>And then the stage where you just don't comprehend it. <v Jackie Leick>You don't understand it. <v Jackie Leick>And then mad and then bitter. And I don't like the bitter stage. <v Jackie Leick>That's the part I don't like, being bitter. But you do get bitter. <v Jackie Leick>And I think they get bitter, too. <v Jackie Leick>But they don't have to deal with those kids and worry <v Jackie Leick>about feeding them and keeping them warm in the winter time and <v Jackie Leick>keeping a roof over their head and school, clothes. <v Jackie Leick>So, you know, how can they walk away from a situation and say, well, <v Jackie Leick>we're not married anymore, so too bad, kids. <v Narrator>In an unusual move, the aggressive Racine, Wisconsin, support team took Richard Leick's

<v Narrator>sportscar to hold it for auction against his delinquent child support. <v Jackie Leick>They'd felt, you know, this was an asset and that when you have children <v Jackie Leick>to support, you have an asset like that, you sell it and continue to pay your <v Jackie Leick>support. And I didn't want him to lose his car rights, it wasn't <v Jackie Leick>the point. I was trying to get across to him. <v Narrator>Tell me about your car. <v Richard Leick>Which one? <v Narrator>Well, the Corvette. <v Richard Leick>The Corvette? What's there to tell? <v Richard Leick>They took the car away from me to cover back support <v Richard Leick>payments. <v Narrator>How do you feel about that? <v Richard Leick>Well, I guess there's - Like anybody would feel if they - if <v Richard Leick>one of their prized possessions gets taken away from them. <v Richard Leick>Nothing I could do about it. Courts say you got to take it away from me and that's it. <v Narrator>It was a prized possession? <v Richard Leick>Well, it was a 1978 silver anniversary Corvette. <v Narrator>What do you think's gonna happen when your husband remarries?

<v Jackie Leick>I don't think I'll see a dime. <v Jackie Leick>And I'm just looking at the other woman's view. <v Jackie Leick>You know, there - if he's not going to be working. <v Jackie Leick>I don't think she's going to say, hey, well, here, we have to pay your support this week, <v Jackie Leick>because she has children too to feed, and that goes right back to being a mother. <v Jackie Leick>You know, your own kids come first. <v Narrator>Now, how are you going to manage the second family when you're still so in debt to the <v Narrator>first family? <v Richard Leick>Well, in debt for the first family, probably it should be covered once they sell the <v Richard Leick>car. <v Richard Leick>And then there the courts are going to take the money and hold it. <v Richard Leick>As far as I know, they're going to keep a percentage of the sale in a car <v Richard Leick>and hold it for in case I do ever get behind in my support payments. <v Narrator>Richard Leick says his construction business had gone downhill at the same time that <v Narrator>Jackie filed for divorce and their property was divided.

<v Narrator>He says now that he lives from day to day. <v Richard Leick>I cover all aspects of construction. <v Richard Leick>I'm a mason by trade, but I do carpentry work. <v Richard Leick>Friend might call up and we have some work for me to do. <v Richard Leick>We'll put in a couple hours with him for cash pay, ten, <v Richard Leick>seven, eight dollars an hour or whatever. <v Narrator>Richard Leick tried to have his payments reduced, but the court has said no. <v Richard Leick>They felt that I was hiding money, that I was working, getting all this money <v Richard Leick>for cash jobs and more or less hiding the money. <v Richard Leick>But that isn't true. <v Narrator>It's not? <v Richard Leick>No. <v Narrator>When you went to jail - you went to jail, briefly. Right? <v Richard Leick>Yes. <v Narrator>And you did come up with whatever it was, $825, to get out right away. <v Narrator>Where did that money come from? <v Richard Leick>I had to sell my motor home. I had a motorhome I bought. <v Richard Leick>We had it 50/50, myself and my ex-wife, and I bought out her half <v Richard Leick>of it that I had to sell real quick to come up with some money

<v Richard Leick>to get out of jail because believe me, I don't like sitting in jail. <v Narrator>Wouldn't it have been easy to - easier to sell your motor home and your car and to stay <v Narrator>current with your payments, than go through the contempt of court charges and go to jail <v Narrator>and have them attach the car and all that? <v Richard Leick>Well, if you sell everything you have just to keep current on <v Richard Leick>your support, then what is there left for you? <v Richard Leick>This was a rough time for me. The divorce itself. <v Richard Leick>And to give away all my activities, <v Richard Leick>a motor home, which, I enjoy camping very much, you know, that's <v Richard Leick>- what would I have left? <v Narrator>Where do the children fit into this? <v Narrator>Are they number one before motorhomes and cars? <v Richard Leick>Yes, my children are number one. <v Narrator>The Leick's jointly owned house is up for sale. <v Narrator>Jackie doesn't have plans beyond to move from her longtime neighborhood. <v Narrator>But more immediately, she worries about the time when her federally-funded job will be

<v Narrator>cut. <v Jackie Leick>I said, I really know what it means now to be a woman out in that world alone. <v Jackie Leick>I mean, I have my friends and I have people who support me, but it's - it's <v Jackie Leick>rough out there. <v Narrator>Is there any answer? <v Jackie Leick>No. I wish there was. <v Jackie Leick>Yeah. Just keep plugging along. <v Jackie Leick>Just tell myself, put your feet in the ground and be like a rabbit. <v Jackie Leick>Put your haunches down and just stand your ground. <v Jackie Leick>It's all you can do. <v Speaker 16>We will - we will soon - <v Narrator>Despite the numbing certainty that the fight to collect support will be frustrating and <v Narrator>probably futile, women keep trying. <v Narrator>Around the country, unpaid child support has spawned support groups ready to challenge <v Narrator>the legal system, which they say is wanting.

<v Narrator>And some judges agree. Baltimore Circuit Court Judge Robert B. <v Narrator>Watts? <v Judge Robert B. Watts>The system isn't working. We know it. We recognize it on this bench. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>It's so overwhelming, really. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>And every time we try to make reforms, it requires more manpower, which we can't get, the <v Judge Robert B. Watts>use of more courts and more personnel, which we don't have the money for. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>So what we're really doing is the best we can under bad circumstances. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>And for instance, I try nonsupport cases three mornings a week. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>We call it sort of the squirrel court. My courtroom is packed. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>I don't have the time to listen to a father who said, Judge, I don't wanna support my <v Judge Robert B. Watts>family, but I can't see my children or she's not spending the money right. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>I don't have time for that. I got a courtroom full of people. <v Speaker 17>But it would seem to me in this day and age with the computers that somewhere somebody <v Speaker 17>should know who he is and where he is. And why can't somebody find him? <v Speaker 18>Good question. <v Narrator>In Maryland, calling that state too lenient on child support <v Narrator>matters, the Organization for the Enforcement of Child Support was formed to educate <v Narrator>the public and to put pressure on judges and politicians.

<v Ruby Williams>I have been fighting for nonsupport from '78. <v Ruby Williams>Since '78 I have been in a courtroom 23 times, and two lawyers later, and I'm not <v Ruby Williams>receiving anything. <v Narrator>Their political clout is still in doubt, but they do ask hard questions about <v Narrator>the parent locator computer, which tracks fathers who've taken off for other places <v Narrator>and about Project Intercept. <v Narrator>This is the new federal program that allows the IRS to withhold tax refunds <v Narrator>if the recipient is behind in child support payments. <v Narrator>Right now, that applies only to welfare cases. <v Narrator>These mothers question the entire system. <v Ruby Williams>What do you do when you ?inaudible? You feel like you can't win, you know to say a man is <v Ruby Williams>sitting up there, saying, send it back to criminal court. <v Ruby Williams>And then I got back to criminal court, the same judge was sitting right up there, sending <v Ruby Williams>it back to ?Equitable? <v Ruby Williams>Court. <v Speaker 19>That's disgusting. <v Speaker 20>Okay. Because you're probably in one of your arrearages or something. <v Ruby Williams>Yes. I - <v Speaker 20>And what I'm saying to you is if you're willing to forgive the back money, because you're <v Speaker 20>probably - what's the difference if you call something - if he owes you, say -.

<v Ruby Williams>$7000. <v Speaker 20>Thousands of dollars. Okay. And he's - and the present order would say, say, $30 a week. <v Speaker 20>Okay. Let's say he gives you $30 week. <v Speaker 20>What's the difference if you're going to say - he's going to make him pay another $30 <v Speaker 20>a week on a back money or have him pay $60 a week present support? <v Narrator>Group member Ruby Williams works in a bakery to support five minor children <v Narrator>and to stay off welfare. Her ex-husband is a longshoreman. <v Narrator>She receives no support. <v Ruby Williams>Nobody goes to ?get him.? Since - <v Ruby Williams>Sometimes I feel very lonesome and just like life has passed <v Ruby Williams>me by. But I know I have to take care of these children. <v Ruby Williams>So it's always pulled me together. And I think I'm <v Ruby Williams>doing half a decent job trying to take care of them. <v Ruby Williams>It's sort of nice to see something that you created, <v Ruby Williams>growing up and up into men and women. <v Ruby Williams>And you just hope for the best.

<v Ruby Williams>You do the best you can and hope for the best. <v Ruby Williams>You know, you put your long - this is the short vowel sound, and this your long <v Ruby Williams>vowel sound. That's your sound. <v Ruby Williams>This right - You put this here. That's <v Ruby Williams>your long. <v Ruby Williams>I manage because they help <v Ruby Williams>out a lot. <v Speaker 21>Since our dad walked out on us, you know, I think it is my responsibility to make <v Speaker 21>sure these children grow up right and <v Speaker 21>proper. And that's why I my mom in any way I can. <v Narrator>What do you want to do for yourself. <v Speaker 21>I want to travel and get to see the world and help people. <v Speaker 21>But before that, I've got to make sure that my family are well taken care of, <v Speaker 21>especially the little ones. <v Speaker 21>I think she's great. I'm happy to have my mother because she <v Speaker 21>gave up her life for us and I do ?inaudible? <v Speaker 21>a lot. <v Ruby Williams>All the things that we discussed here tonight, I have been through it and I know

<v Ruby Williams>it doesn't work because first of all, when you go into a courtroom, <v Ruby Williams>they are not as courteous to you as they are at a meeting. <v Ruby Williams>They aren't. They don't take a nonsupport court seriously. <v Ruby Williams>When a child doesn't have enough food to eat, warm clothing to wear, that's criminal. <v Ruby Williams>That's child abuse. <v Narrator>We wrote to Nathaniel Williams to ask for an interview, but we received no response. <v Linda Seward>My name is Linda Seward. Eight years ago, I was awarded in <v Linda Seward>Hartford County and I see there are no representatives from Hartford County. <v Linda Seward>And that doesn't surprise me. <v Speaker 20>I don't know that they were invited. <v Linda Seward>Uh, yes they were. I've been a member of this organization for two years. <v Narrator>Linda Seward wants to go back to court to collect the thousands of dollars in child <v Narrator>support she says is long overdue from her ex-husband. <v Linda Seward>When we were married, my husband was an excellent father. <v Linda Seward>He was the best father that I ever saw. <v Linda Seward>When we were first separated for the first year, on

<v Linda Seward>his days off, he came over and watched the boys for me while I <v Linda Seward>was working and on occasion even had dinner ready when I came home. <v Linda Seward>We got along fine and, you know, he was coming around <v Linda Seward>every week. He was seeing the boys, he was taking and doing things with them, and <v Linda Seward>he was voluntarily giving me at that time $50 a week for the <v Linda Seward>boys. I'd say the last eight months <v Linda Seward>before the divorce, I noticed he was coming less. <v Linda Seward>He was paying less. <v Speaker 22>Good girl. <v Linda Seward>My children were babies, 3 and 5 years old, and I didn't want to take <v Linda Seward>their father away from them. I just wanted the separation from him. <v Linda Seward>But I didn't anticipate this long separation from <v Linda Seward>him and the boys. And at that time, you would have never convinced me

<v Linda Seward>that he would have taken off and just <v Linda Seward>dismissed them off of the earth. <v Linda Seward>Which is more or less what he has done. <v Linda Seward>I don't want to go on welfare. I don't want to go on public assistance. <v Linda Seward>I would like to have the money right now that I've paid out an attorney fees. <v Linda Seward>And since I discovered this Organization for Child <v Linda Seward>Support Enforcement, knowing what I know now and knowing what they know, <v Linda Seward>how to tell me to go about things, I will never hire an attorney again <v Linda Seward>to collect child support. <v Linda Seward>Why is it so hard to transfer probation? <v Linda Seward>From what? Why should I live in Baltimore County? <v Linda Seward>My divorce took place in Hartford County. <v Linda Seward>Why should I have to lose a day's wages every so many months <v Linda Seward>to get travel to Hartford County to go through all these proceedings, to <v Linda Seward>get a summons served on him, to appear to court - in court and for him to disappear? <v Speaker 23>I can't answer you as to the problems between the probation departments.

<v Speaker 23>?inaudible? I have no idea <v Linda Seward>?inaudible? You don't have any idea. <v Linda Seward>All we want is what rightfully belongs to our children. <v Narrator>We couldn't locate Gary Seward to invite him to respond. <v Narrator>According to Linda Seward, he's moved several times to other states. <v Narrator>Baltimore Judge Robert Watts. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>They come down with their husband, doesn't show. We issue a warrant. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>We pick him up. We post bail. We send it to him again. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>They come down. Then he claims, I don't have any money. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>So I said, well, you got to support your family. I'm gonna give you 30 days to get a job. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>So then she's got to come back. And this is why the women complain. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>Meantime, she gets nothing. <v Dana O'Neal>This was this was the summer we spent so much time at the beach. <v Dana O'Neal>This is great ?pans.? <v Narrator>Sophisticated knowledge of the law among professionals and upper income ex-spouses may <v Narrator>make collection even harder than usual. <v Dana O'Neal>It's been six years. And we - it wasn't until very recently that anything's really done. <v Dana O'Neal>But I think it's unfortunate.

<v Narrator>Group member Dana O'Neal says the court finally garnisheed her attorney ex-husband's <v Narrator>salary after arrearages mounted. <v Dana O'Neal>Well, I think so, for the most part. <v Dana O'Neal>Maybe the man who kind of lower on the scale feels that he's supposed to do what <v Dana O'Neal>the court says. Court says you get a pay it, you got to pay it. <v Dana O'Neal>So he pays it. And somebody who's who's a little more with it, particularly <v Dana O'Neal>somebody who's in the legal game, realizes, as the court says something, it doesn't <v Dana O'Neal>necessarily mean that you have to go ahead and do it. <v Dana O'Neal>I mean, you can - you can drag it out or you can just do whatever <v Dana O'Neal>games and strings that need to be pulled and you can really avoid the whole <v Dana O'Neal>thing. <v Dana O'Neal>Eventually, kids are gonna get to the point where they're 18 years old. <v Dana O'Neal>After a while, the courts don't wanna hear about anymore anyway. <v Dana O'Neal>If something hasn't been done, they tend to say, well, wow, that's a lot of money. <v Dana O'Neal>Where is he going to come up with that much money? <v Dana O'Neal>We'll just erase that thing. And you better start paying from this time on, buddy. <v Dana O'Neal>And then it doesn't get paid. This is - God, it had to cost him a fortune, this <v Dana O'Neal>legal maneuvering. It hasn't been cheap for him. <v Dana O'Neal>I mean, he has to pay attorneys and all of that.

<v Narrator>Was it very embarrassing for him as a professional to have his <v Narrator>salary garnisheed? <v Dana O'Neal>Yeah. Yeah, he was really upset. He was really worried about that, that it wasn't going <v Dana O'Neal>to look good for the company. <v Narrator>We asked Robert O'Neal to participate, but he declined. <v Narrator>Over the years, a sense of outrage seems to shift to a sense of defeat. <v Narrator>And yet these women keep trying to collect child support because to stop, they <v Narrator>say, is to deny paternal responsibility. <v Speaker 24>[Sings] The sun will come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow... <v Narrator>Elizabeth Carter. <v Elizabeth Carter>I think that marital conflict is a Ping-Pong game.

<v Elizabeth Carter>OK. And very, very often, well, your lawyer only <v Elizabeth Carter>hears the pong or the ping depending on who he's talking to. <v Elizabeth Carter>You know? The judge, well, he's supposed to see <v Elizabeth Carter>the ping pong. <v Elizabeth Carter>But he may or may not, see, 'cause every lawyer will tell you, some judges <v Elizabeth Carter>are very tough and some are very lenient. Well, what does that mean? <v Elizabeth Carter>It means they have an idea of whose side or which cause they're <v Elizabeth Carter>in favor of. And they sort of go that way. <v John Rossler>The rights of the father to be involved with his children is totally ignored. <v John Rossler>He is viewed as one thing, a money machine. <v Narrator>And around the country, fathers are saying that only the ping is heard in the nation's <v Narrator>courts. <v John Rossler>Maybe it's our job and maybe it's our job to convince our legislators that men in <v John Rossler>this country have been discriminated as much as women in this country have also been <v John Rossler>discriminated in the involvement and the nurturing and caring process of our children. <v John Rossler>And we are more to our children than just money.

<v Walter Lippow>The men I know in our organization here, which is Westchester, which is suburban <v Walter Lippow>community. Their life's goal was to get a good job, become responsible citizens, <v Walter Lippow>get a home, bring up a family, not to ever leave it. <v Walter Lippow>They wanted to be in a nest, just as any woman wants to be in a nest, and they feel badly <v Walter Lippow>kicked out of that nest. <v Narrator>Over 135 divorced men's groups have organized under the umbrella <v Narrator>banner of the National Congress for Men. <v Narrator>They legislate for enforcement of visitation rights and push for joint custody <v Narrator>laws. <v Walter Lippow>Joint custody, when it is given to both parents, <v Walter Lippow>they're going back into court to argue about joint custody violations, if there are <v Walter Lippow>any ?inaudible? is one - returning to court is one third less than when one <v Walter Lippow>parent only has custody. And yet there's a constant argument that joint custody <v Walter Lippow>can only be worked if both parties can get along. <v Walter Lippow>Well, both parties wouldn't be getting divorced if they got along. <v Walter Lippow>But if both parties have a contract or joint custody, you live up to the contract. <v Walter Lippow>They way partners live up to it. Partners don't get along but they adhere to the <v Walter Lippow>contract. ?inaudible?

<v Narrator>In New York State, the movement has been growing rapidly and various groups get together <v Narrator>to compare problems and goals. <v Narrator>Compliance with child support orders varies among members. <v Narrator>But unlike fathers who disappear, these men maintain their connection <v Narrator>and stay to fight for what they call unfair treatment of fathers. <v Speaker 25>When child support is meted out by the courts, there is no consideration <v Speaker 25>taken of what the child's needs are, only what they could squeeze out of the father. <v Narrator>Fathers' groups are incensed about Project Intercept, that law that permits the <v Narrator>IRS to seize income tax refunds in AFDC cases. <v Narrator>The President of Equal Rights for Fathers of New York State, John Rossler, has filed <v Narrator>a class action suit in protest and is encouraging other groups to do the same. <v John Rossler>Ability - punitive measures at best are going to be only mediocre in resolving <v John Rossler>the problem. I think what we've gotta do is we've got to look at the reasons of why <v John Rossler>ex-spouses and ex-parents who are mainly fathers don't pay. <v Speaker 26>You're a visitor, you make your payments, go away and just pay.

<v Speaker 27>You know this work - <v Speaker 26>And eventually they just give up because their visitation, if they have a visitation <v Speaker 26>order from the courts, is not enforced either by the local police or by the courts <v Speaker 26>themselves. They don't want to go to the trouble, but they see themselves there as <v Speaker 26>making sure that she's provided with child support first. <v Speaker 26>And that's that's their prime function. <v Phil Newhouse>When we first hit the system, we're told we don't have a chance for custody. <v Phil Newhouse>We don't have a chance for joint custody unless we make a deal. <v Phil Newhouse>So what we do is we negotiate. If we have the wherewithal to pay more money than the <v Phil Newhouse>court would automatically award, then we buy custody, if our <v Phil Newhouse>ex-wife or current wife allows us to. <v Narrator>Phil Newhouse has daughter Rhonda with him about half the time, which he says works well <v Narrator>for them. His support payments, however, are full time obligations. <v Phil Newhouse>Financially, I am obligated to support my daughter the half <v Phil Newhouse>of the time she is here as well as make support payments, which I am <v Phil Newhouse>at this point not current with to her mother. <v Phil Newhouse>In addition to the obligations that I have here for this half the time.

<v Phil Newhouse>Lucky that I get enough cheese for the sandwich with you around. <v Phil Newhouse>You usually eat it all while I'm making it. [Laughter]. <v Phil Newhouse>To make quality time incorporates time as well as quality. <v Phil Newhouse>And to visit your daughter half a day a week or one day a week or some <v Phil Newhouse>such situation to me represented not really being able to be a parent, <v Phil Newhouse>and to me parenting was spending those good moments as well as the bad moments <v Phil Newhouse>with the child and viewing values, spending real time, not <v Phil Newhouse>just entertaining time, not just a Disney World kind of time, <v Phil Newhouse>kind of time that the child sees you cleaning a house or doing dishes or <v Phil Newhouse>cooking or just being yourself, <v Phil Newhouse>reading. <v Phil Newhouse>I don't know what this is. What is that? <v Speaker 28>It's a lilypad. <v Phil Newhouse>Playing games together - <v Speaker 28>What frogs sit on! <v Phil Newhouse>Watching TV together - <v Speaker 28>That's what frogs sit on! <v Phil Newhouse>Ribbit, ribbit. <v Phil Newhouse>And the kinds of things, the kinds of conversations <v Phil Newhouse>that come up as a result of being together on a casual basis as opposed to

<v Phil Newhouse>kinds of forced conversations that come up. <v Phil Newhouse>Well, here we are. This now our five hours to be together. <v Phil Newhouse>What do we do now? How do we catch up with the week's progress? <v Phil Newhouse>What's in your heart? What's on your mind? <v Speaker 28>Dad, do you know what? At my mommy's house, I made all the invitations already. <v Phil Newhouse>Oh, you did? <v Speaker 28>I made the whole list and I made all the invitations. <v Phil Newhouse>Oh, my goodness. <v Phil Newhouse>What day are you having your party then? <v Speaker 28>December 11th. <v Phil Newhouse>At this point, I am considerably behind. <v Phil Newhouse>And the reason I'm considerably behind is because I'm barely making payments on my own <v Phil Newhouse>rent. I assumed all of the marital debts in full, <v Phil Newhouse>which I'm paying off. <v Phil Newhouse>I am literally having difficulty keeping a roof over our heads at this point. <v Phil Newhouse>And I can only assume that that's the reason why my ex-wife has not come after me <v Phil Newhouse>for support payments. She actually did once, but in many, many months she has not. <v Phil Newhouse>At this point, because I suspect she understands that I just don't have it.

<v Phil Newhouse>What was your favorite thing at the circus? <v Speaker 28>The clowns! Clowns. <v Phil Newhouse>What did the clowns do? <v Speaker 28>Sang and did tricks. And the clown was smiling. <v Speaker 28>It's all because of you, the clown told Rhonda. <v Phil Newhouse>The facts as I see them, are that I'm a loving, <v Phil Newhouse>nurturing father of my daughter, that I have her physically half of the time and I'm <v Phil Newhouse>supporting her, I think, in a very comfortable way, not materially comfortable, <v Phil Newhouse>but certainly well above the necessity level in terms of the time I have her. <v Phil Newhouse>I know the perfect place to have the circus, she cried. <v Phil Newhouse>Follow me! Where did she go? <v Speaker 28>The school! <v Phil Newhouse>I mean, I'm caught in a double bind. The double bind is that if I were to turn the clock <v Phil Newhouse>back and perhaps go out and try to earn a great deal more money than I'm currently <v Phil Newhouse>earning, I may not have the amount of time I have with my daughter. <v Phil Newhouse>So in order for me not to be a potentially bad guy in terms of paying <v Phil Newhouse>or catching up with my ex-wife's payments, it would require us at this

<v Phil Newhouse>point taking away time that I would ordinarily be with my daughter. <v Phil Newhouse>The priorities in my life are being Rhonda's daddy number <v Phil Newhouse>one and being a breadwinner, number two. <v Phil Newhouse>All right, Tweety Bird. <v Phil Newhouse>And we're not defending those who want no responsibility. <v Phil Newhouse>What we are saying is you can't separate financial support from physical <v Phil Newhouse>and emotional support. When a parent ceases to be a parent, it follows <v Phil Newhouse>that they will not want to be financially involved. <v Phil Newhouse>What we're talking about is developing and maintaining a system that maintains parental <v Phil Newhouse>support, which includes financial support. <v Phil Newhouse>But stop defining men's parenting roles or fatherhood as <v Phil Newhouse>how much you write out of the checkbook. <v John Rossler>For a year after our separation, we get sole custody because we didn't know anything <v John Rossler>else. And my ex-wife in no way attempted to thwart, deny or frustrate <v John Rossler>visitation. And I can tell you the feeling of second class status of a nothing of a <v John Rossler>parent for now - when I was totally involved in my children, I'm picking them up on a <v John Rossler>Saturday morning and knowing that Saturday night or Sunday sometime, I had to bring them

<v John Rossler>back and I would not see them again. <v John Rossler>I was not involved in the decision of where they're going to school, what they're going <v John Rossler>to take in school. Are they going to go into ice skating this year? <v John Rossler>Is my daughter going to be a cheerleader this year? But of all this stuff, I mean, it got <v John Rossler>to the point, I used to take them - pick them up on a Saturday and a couple of times, I <v John Rossler>brought them back in tears. And it wasn't - it wasn't my ex-wife that did it. <v John Rossler>The system did it. It completely excluded me from any involvement, any decision <v John Rossler>making, any importance in my child's life. <v Walter Lippow>The problem is that two decades ago, it would be settled by a, well, an uncle <v Walter Lippow>on the back porch and take an afternoon to solve. <v Walter Lippow>Now it'll take two years of litigation and two appeals and cost over $40,000. <v Walter Lippow>Whereas we no longer leave ourselves in the hands of our family, in our caring relatives. <v Walter Lippow>But we give it to strangers who have vested interest in their own financial gain to <v Walter Lippow>achieve. <v Narrator>Periodontist Walter ?Lippow? has given up his practice for health reasons and now <v Narrator>lectures part time. With joint custody, his two children live one week with their mother <v Narrator>and one week with him, second wife, Giselle, and their child.

<v Walter Lippow>My financial obligation to my ex-wife <v Walter Lippow>is the same as it would be as if she had the children all the time. <v Walter Lippow>I have to pay support even when the children with me <v Walter Lippow>and I pay the support when the children are with me, which seems strange to be giving her <v Walter Lippow>money while they're living with me, especially since they live with me half the time. <v Giselle Lippow>His children are part of this household now, and therefore my income as well as his <v Giselle Lippow>go for the support of the children. <v Giselle Lippow>I've accepted it. I never really gave it too much thought because if I did, <v Giselle Lippow>then I would just have very deep resentment of the whole situation and <v Giselle Lippow>for the children. And in order to avoid that, I try not to think about it. <v Giselle Lippow>Yeah. <v Walter Lippow>OK. John, you go across. <v Walter Lippow>I'm in arrears at this particular time because I can't possibly <v Walter Lippow>make the payments that I'm called upon to make.

<v Walter Lippow>They were made in a very almost rubber stamp fashion based without <v Walter Lippow>any testimony, just innuendoes that my ex-wife's lawyer said. <v Walter Lippow>And the court just seemed to believe it. <v Walter Lippow>And so I have to show that it isn't the truth. <v Walter Lippow>So it's not a question of even using a strategy of nonpayment. <v Walter Lippow>I can't afford to do it. <v Walter Lippow>And in order to show the court that I can't afford to do it, I have to use Giselle's <v Walter Lippow>salary or parts of it to pay for lawyers to try to show the court. <v Giselle Lippow>I don't like living with these pressures on me. <v Giselle Lippow>It's it's a constant awareness that we have this situation <v Giselle Lippow>to deal with. <v Walter Lippow>I feel helpless in this situation because <v Walter Lippow>there's always the threat of jail. <v Narrator>The court has threatened jail, calling Lippow's nonpayment a blatant disregard <v Narrator>of the law. Support payments were reduced, but litigation continues <v Narrator>and it doesn't come cheap.

<v Walter Lippow>If you think a lawyer is not doing well or a judge is not doing well, all you can do is <v Walter Lippow>appeal it. And the appeals are horrendously expensive. <v Walter Lippow>You're talking about five, six, seven, eight thousand dollars. <v Walter Lippow>We've spent incredible sums of money. I'm embarrassed to say how many tens of thousands <v Walter Lippow>we've spent not to avoid anything, just to create the truth. <v Walter Lippow>And no one seems to want to listen. <v Walter Lippow>I'm not talking about a father who willfully doesn't try to support his children, one who <v Walter Lippow>runs away, we have no sympathy for that kind of person. <v Walter Lippow>But the one who stays as I've stayed, make sure that I'm in the children's life, <v Walter Lippow>to feel in any way that I am not a good father when I'm bringing up <v Walter Lippow>my children, that disturbs me when the court's not recognizing that. <v Phil Newhouse>Well in fact, in reality, some of it is unrealistic at best. <v Phil Newhouse>A man who's left with three or four hundred or five hundred dollars a month to live on is

<v Phil Newhouse>going to take a ?powder,? he's going to leave, if the quality of his life falls too far <v Phil Newhouse>down, particularly in light of the fact that the quality of his parenting life is not too <v Phil Newhouse>great anyway. <v Narrator>The face-off between spouses, followed by the face-off with the legal system, tends <v Narrator>to obscure the fact that child support is about children. <v Elizabeth Carter>They'd say, I shall now dedicate the rest of my life to getting <v Elizabeth Carter>the so and so. I shall now make a shrine in my bedroom dedicated <v Elizabeth Carter>to my ex-husband, and I'll devote the rest of my life to taking him to court. <v Elizabeth Carter>Isn't that wonderful? <v Narrator>Is there a solution? Divorce mediation, a back porch approach that includes a mutual <v Narrator>parental plan for the children, is in the vanguard. <v Narrator>Judge Wattts. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>I consider that the domestic law of the eighties is mediation and conciliation, <v Judge Robert B. Watts>and we have a lot of lawyers and behavioral scientists are now coming <v Judge Robert B. Watts>into that field. If I was a young man, I'd go into that field.

<v Judge Robert B. Watts>I think now people are recognizing the destructiveness of a divorce court. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>It's been described - I remember my favorite expression - a divorce court is a <v Judge Robert B. Watts>destructive arena for the escalation of anxieties. <v Judge Robert B. Watts>And that's exactly what it does. <v Elizabeth Carter>Now, going to court is not particularly a tactic that works, since <v Elizabeth Carter>there aren't jails that are tall enough or wide enough and it hasn't had any effect <v Elizabeth Carter>whatsoever on the rate of compliance. <v Elizabeth Carter>So going to court does make you feel wonderful. <v Elizabeth Carter>And you - and you vent some of your fury and you conduct - you hope you <v Elizabeth Carter>conduct a reign of terror and you harass them. <v Elizabeth Carter>But if we're thinking about getting money for your children, it may not be <v Elizabeth Carter>effective. The most effective technique may be, God forbid, <v Elizabeth Carter>to sort of be relatively civil and friendly with him and <v Elizabeth Carter>get together on a plan and be cheerful about it and friendly and work <v Elizabeth Carter>out something.

<v Narrator>Mediation has its critics. <v Narrator>Former president of the Matrimonial Lawyers of America, Arthur Balbirer, <v Narrator>says that males, usually more conversant with family finances may, during <v Narrator>divorce take advantage of women who don't have an advocate to advise them. <v Arthur Balbirer>Mediation is, in my way of thinking, a fact of life. <v Arthur Balbirer>It is something which is coming and in which, in my opinion, is not <v Arthur Balbirer>in the interests of the public. <v Arthur Balbirer>I personally believe that both parties that are going through a divorce, <v Arthur Balbirer>no matter how fair they may say they wish to be, are to some extent <v Arthur Balbirer>governed by selfishness. <v Arthur Balbirer>The woman wants as much as she can get, but says she wants to be fair <v Arthur Balbirer>and probably does. And the husband says he wants to support his family in the best <v Arthur Balbirer>way he can, but on the other hand, wants to have as good a life for himself as <v Arthur Balbirer>possible. In going through the process of negotiating a resolution, I <v Arthur Balbirer>personally feel both of these people are emotionally involved, as well they should be,

<v Arthur Balbirer>and are not very good advocates on their own behalf in order to resolve this <v Arthur Balbirer>matter. <v Narrator>A new proposal would treat child support as a tax and collect through the withholding <v Narrator>system. This would take it out of the courts and establish uniformity in the collection <v Narrator>system. <v Speaker 29>Would you sign this for me? <v Speaker 30>Sure, right on the X? <v Speaker 29>Yes. <v Narrator>But incarceration or credit card, through the swirl of rage and rhetoric, <v Narrator>the fact remains. Children must be supported and society has not <v Narrator>said it wants to support other people's children. <v Narrator>In 1981, the government picked up 1.6 billion dollars in child support. <v Narrator>This year, child support is due from approximately 4.2 million absent <v Narrator>parents. The message is clear. <v Narrator>Ignoring that responsibility is not a parental option. <v Speaker 31>We can't verify ?inaudible? <v Speaker>[Song: "Hush Little Baby, Don't Say a Word"]

<v Speaker>The preceding program was made possible by a grant from the Corporation

<v Speaker>for Public Broadcasting.