PBS NewsHour; Friday, November 18, 2022, 6:00pm-7:00pm PST

>> GOOD EVENING AND WEOME. JUDY WOODRUFF IS AWAY. ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT, INVESTIGATING TRUMP. ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND APPOINTS A SPECIAL COUNSEL TO OVERSEE PROBES INTO THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S HANDLING OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS AND HIS ROLE IN EFFORTS TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION. THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DECLARES THAT THE SAUDI CROWN PRINCE SHOULD BE IMMUNE FROM LAWSUITS OVER HIS ROLE IN THE MURDER OF JOURNALIST JAMAAL KHASHOGGI. AND SEARCHING FOR JUSTICE. 25 YEARS AFTER PASSING CONGRESS, A LAW THAT SPED UP THE ADOPTION PROCESS IS MAKING IT DIFFICULT FOR PARENTS CRIMINAL HISTORIES TO REAGAN CUSTODY OF THEIR CHILDREN. >> NOT EVEN KNOWING WHAT SHE LOOKS LIKE IS THE HARDEST PART BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I COULD BE

WALKING AND MY DAUGHTER COULD WALK PAST ME AND I WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW IT'S HER. >> ALL THAT AND MORE ON TONIGHT'S PBS NEWSHOUR. ♪ >> MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY. >> PEDIATRIC SURGEON. TAYLOR'S ADVICE TO HELP YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE. LIFE WELL PLANNED. >> AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INDIVIDUALS AND INSTITUTIONS AND FRIENDS OF THE NEWSHOUR. >> AND FRIENDS OF THE NEWSHOUR. THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE

BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. >> THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATIONS INTO FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP ARE ENTERING A NEW PHASE. ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND IS APPOINTING A ECIAL COUNSEL TO OVERSEE TWO DIFFERENT PROBES. INTERFERENCE IN THE TRANSFER OF POWER AROUND THE COUNTING OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES AND THE HANDLING OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS AT TRUMP'S FLORIDA HOME. >> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID THAT HE'S TAKING THIS STEP TO KEEP THE INVESTIGATION SEPARATE FROM POLITICS. >> BASED ON RECENT OF ELEMENTS INCLUDING THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S ANNOUNCEMENT THAT HE IS A CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT IN THE NEXT ELECTION IN THE SITTING PRESIDENT'S STATED INTENTION TO BE A CANDIDATE AS WELL, I HAVE

CONCLUDED THAT IT IS IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL. SUCH AN APPOINTMENT UNDERSCORES THE DEPARTMENT'S COMMITMENT TO BOTH INDEPENDENCE AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN RTICULARLY SENSITIVE MATTERS. >> GARLAND NAMED VETERAN PROSECUTOR JACK SMITH. HE WILL RECOMMEND WHETHER TO BRING CHARGES AGAINST THE FORMER PRESIDENT. THESE ARE KIND OF UNCHARTED TYPES OF INVESTIGATIONS. WHETHER A SITTING PRESIDENT HARM TO THIS COUNTRY WHILE IN OFFICE. BUT THE IDEA OF A SPECIAL COUNSEL IS NOT ENTIRELY NEW. HOW WILL THAT AFFECT THESE INVESTIGATIONS? >> NOT ENTIRELY NEW. THESE ARE UNPRECEDENTED CIRCUMSTANCES. THINK OF IT THIS WAY. THERE HAS BEEN AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION, FBI AGENT'S AND PROSECUTORS HAVE BEEN WORKING ON

THIS FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW. THE NEW SPECIAL COUNSEL IS GOING TO BE HOPPING ABOARD A MOVING BUS. IT MIGHT SLOW DOWN A LITTLE BIT, UP TO SPEED. I THINK I'M MIXING METAPHORS. BUT IT'S GOING TO MOVE FORWARD. HE HAS A TEAM OF PEOPLE THAT KNOW THE FACTS AND CAN GET HIM UP TO SPEED. >> FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS RESPONDED SAYING THIS IS UNFAIR AND POLITICAL. WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT SPECIAL COUNSEL SMITH? >> IT IS NEITHER UNFAIR NOR POLITICAL. JACK SMITH HAS A REPUTATION AS AN OUTSTANDING PROSECUTOR BOTH IN THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK AND BROOKLYN AND AS THE HEAD OF THE PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. THAT DOESN'T FORESHADOW AN OUTCOME. HIS JOB IS NOT TO INDICT PEOPLE, ALTHOUGH THAT MAY HAPPEN.

HIS JOB IS TO FOLLOW THE FACTS AND THE LAW AND MAKE DETERMINATIONS ABOUT WHETHER FOLKS OUGHT TO BE CHARGED. >> CAN YOU HELP US AS A PROSECUTOR, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS INVOLVED IN A POTENTIAL CASE ABOUT TRYING TO OVERTURN OR INTERFERE IN AN ELECTION? HOW HIGH OF A BAR IS THERE FOR CHARGES? >> YOU HAVE TO PROVE INTENT AND PROSECUTORS WILL TELL YOU THAT INTENT IS ALWAYS HARD TO PROVE. YOU HAVE TO GET INTO SOMEONE'S MIND. THE WAY YOU DO THAT IS BY TALKING TO PEOPLE AROUND MR. TRUMP WHO SPOKE TO HIM. THAT MEANS WORKING YOUR WAY UP THROUGH MANY WITNESSES ESSENTIALLY UP THE LADDER. HOW FAR UP IT GOES, WE DON'T KNOW YET. THOSE FACTS AREN'T IN THE PUBLIC RECORD. BUT PROVING INTENT IS ALWAYS A DIFFICULT TASK FOR FEDERAL PROSECUTORS. NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT DIFFICULT. >> WE HAVE A LOT OF HIS OWN WORDS THAT COULD COME INTO PLAY.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FELT CLEARLY THAT A SPECIAL COUNSEL WAS NEEDED HERE IN EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES. YOU DISAGREE. >> I THINK THIS IS A CASE THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CAN AND SHOULD DO. I THINK MERRICK GARLAND IS A VERY PRINCIPLED HONEST HONORABLE MAN. THE FACT THAT I DISAGREE WITH HIS DECISION DOESN'T CHANGE ANY OF THAT. HERE'S THE PROBLEM. AN INDEPENDENT COUNSEL HAD FULL AUTONOMY. A SPECIAL COUNSEL, THINK BOB MAHLER AND RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE, AND HAD A LOT OF INDEPENDENCE BUT NOT FULL AUTONOMY. SO WE TOGGLE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN TOO MUCH INDEPENDENCE AND NOT QUITE ENOUGH. AT THE END OF THE DAY, MERRICK GARLAND STILL OWNS THIS DECISION. AT THE END OF THE DAY, MERRICK GARLAND MAKES THE FINAL DETERMINATION. IN OTHER WORDS I DON'T THINK HE'S PURCHASING THAT MUCH

DISTANCE BETWEEN HIMSELF AND THE SPECIAL COUNSEL. >> WALLING OFF THIS INVESTIGATING PART OF THIS. >> HE IS. TO BE CLEAR, JACK SMITH WILL BE AN INDEPENDENT ACTOR UP UNTIL THE END WHEN DETERMINATIONS AND DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE. THOSE DECISIONS WILL REST WITH MERIT ARLEN. >> WE HAVE SEEN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SENSITIVE TO ELECTION YEARS IN THE PAST. >> THE SOONER THE BETTER. BUT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL CAN OUTLIVE IN ADMINISTRATION. JOHN DURHAM WAS APPOINTED SPECIAL COUNSEL BY BILL BARR AND IS STILL WORKING UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF MERRICK GARLAND. >> IT'S CLEAR THAT A FORMER PRESIDENT CAN BE CHARGED FOR A CRIME. >> ABSOLUTELY. IF THEY CAN PROVE IT AND THE FACTS SUPPORTED. -- SUPPORTS IT -- SUPPORT IT. >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I'M VANESSA RUIZ.

WE WILL RETURN TO THE FULL PROGRAM AFTER THE LATES HEADLINES. DONALD TRUMP RESPONDED TONIGHT TO THAT APPOINTMENT OF THE SPECIAL COUNSEL. AT AN EVENT AT MAR-A-LAGO, THE FORMER PRESIDENT CALLED THE APPOINTMENT A HORRENDOUS ABUSE OF POWER AND A WITCHHUNT. THE U.S. AND OTHER NATIONS OFFERED IN THE 11TH HOUR PROPOSAL TO RESCUE U.N. CLIMATE TALKS FROM FAILURE. THE FOCUS WAS ON COMPENSATING NATIONS ALREADY BEING DAMAGED BY DISASTERS. >> THE DIVISIONS ONLY SEEM TO BE WIDENING TODAY AS WORLD LEADERS PUSH PAST THEIR INITIAL DEADLINE FOR REACHING A DEAL. >> TODAY WE NEED TO SHIFT GEARS AGAIN. >> SEVERAL CLIMATE ISSUES ARE BEING DEBATED AT THE ANNUAL UNITED NATIONS SUMMIT AND QUESTIONS SURROUNDING LOSS AND DAMAGE PAYMENTS REMAIN A

STICKING POINT. THE BASIC IDEA, WEALTHIER NATIONS WHICH HAVE LONG POLLUTED THE MOST SHOULD GIVE MONEY TO POOR AND DEVELOPING NATIONS AFFECTED BY CLIMATE CHANGE. GERMANY'S FOREIGN MINISTER ACKNOWLEDGED THE HARMFUL IMPACTS WEALTHY NATIONS CAN CREATE FOR VULNERABLE COUNTRIES. >> SPENDING MONEY IS NOT AN END IN ITSELF. IT'S ABOUT ENSURING CLIMATE JUSTICE BECAUSE WE ARE CURRENTLY SEEING THAT THOSE WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED THE LEAST SUFFER THE MOST FROM THE CURRENT CLIMATE DAMAGE. >> THE TALKS HAVE BEEN PUSHED INTO THE WEEKEND AS RESOLUTIONS REMAIN UP IN THE AIR. A DRAFT DECISION FROM THE EGYPTIAN PRESIDENCY WAS RELEASED THIS MORNING OUTLINING A POTENTIAL PLAN. SOME WERE IMMEDIATELY CRITICAL, SAYING IT WAS VAGUE AND LEFT OUT IMPORTANT PRIORITIES. AMONG THE KEY QUESTIONS, WHETHER A NEW FUND FOR VULNERABLE NATIONS WOULD BE TIED TO EXPLICIT COMMITMENTS TO PHASE OUT FOSSIL FUELS. EUROPEAN UNION SURPRISED MANY OVERNIGHT WITH THIS PROPOSAL,

BUT IT DID NOT APPEAR IN THE DRAFTS BEING DEBATED TODAY. A 10-YEAR-OLD CLIMATE ACTIVIS FROM GHANA. >> HAVE A HEART. IT IS AN EMERGENCY. IF ALL OF YOU WERE TO BE YOUNG PEOPLE LIKE ME, WOULDN'T YOU ALREADY HAVE AGREED TO DO WHAT IS NEEDED TO SAVE OUR PLANET? >> HER SPEECH DREW A STANDING OVATION. A GLIMMER OF HOPE IN THE COMING DAYS. >> NORTH KOREA'S LAUNCH OF A LONG-RANGE MISSILE YESTERDAY WAS RADLEY -- ROUNDLY CONDEMNED AT AIPAC. KAMALA HARRIS HELD AN EMERGENCY GATHERING OF SOUTH KOREA, JAPAN AND OTHERS. FRENCH PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON URGED THE LEADERS TO CONDEMN RUSSIA'S INVASION.

>> THIS WAR ISN'T YOUR PROBLEM BECAUSE IT WILL CREATE A LOT OF DESTABILIZATION. HELP US TO CONVEY THE SAME MESSAGE TO RUSSIA. STOP THE WAR, RESPECT INTERNATIONAL ORDER, COME BACK AT THE TABLE. >> RUSSIA IS A MEMBER OF AIPAC PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN IS NOT ATTENDING THE SUMMIT. THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT SAID WAVES OF RUSSIAN STRIKES HAVE DISABLED NEARLY HALF OF THE ENERGY SYSTEM. THE WINTER BOMBING CAMPAIGN HAS PLUNGED MILLIONS INTO DARKNESS FOR HOURS ON END. OFFICIALS WARNED TODAY THAT FREEZING TEMPERATURES ARE NOW ADDING TO THE PRESSURE ON DISRUPTED ENERGY NETWORKS. A POWERFUL SNOWSTORM PARALYZED PARTS OF WESTERN AND NORTHERN NEW YORK STATE WITH AT LEAST 3 FEET OF LAKE EFFECT SNOW. THE HEAVIEST SNOWFALL HAPPENED IN AND AROUND BUFFALO NEAR THE EASTERN END OF LAKE ERIE. IT IS GOING TO GET WORSE AS THE WEEKEND PROGRESSES.

>> WE HAVE SEEN HOW HARD AND FAST ITS FALLING, MAKING DRIVING CONDITIONS EXTREMELY HAZARDOUS. PEOPLE TRYING TO DRIVE, GETTING STUCK. ONCE THE STORM MOVES TO OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY, WE WILL POTENTIALLY SEE THE SAME THING IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY OF BUFFALO AS WELL. >> THE SNOW HAS CLOSED SCHOOLS AND STOPPED TRAINS AND FLIGHTS AROUND BUFFALO. ELIZABETH HOLMES WAS SENTENCED TODAY TO 130 FIVE MONTHS IN FEDERAL PRISON. THE PENALTY WAS IMPOSED AT A HEARING IN SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA. SHE HAD BEEN CONVICTED OF INVESTOR FRAUD AND CONSPIRACY FOR DUPING INVESTORS ABOUT BOGUS BLOOD TESTING TECHNOLOGY. CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM AGREED TO RELEASE $1 BILLION IN STATE HOMELESSNESS FUNDING AFTER WITHHOLDING IT EARLIER THIS MONTH.

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS MUST AGREE TO IMPLEMENT MORE ROBUST HOMELESSNESS REDUCTION PLANS TO QUALIFY. HUNDREDS MORE OF THE EMPLOYEES AT TWITTER ARE REPORTEDLY LEAVING THE COMPANY. THASSOCIATED PRESS SAYS IT IS BASED ON POSTINGS ON AN INTERNAL COMPANY MESSAGING BOARD. IT COMES FROM AN ULTIMATUM FROM ELON MUSK TO WORK HARDER OR RESIGN. STRUGGLING TO REGAIN CUSTODY OF THEIR CHILDREN AFTER LEAVING PRISON. MIGRANT WORKERS RECOUNT THEIR ABUSE WHILE BUILDING STADIUMS FOR THE UPCOMING MEN'S WORLD COME -- WORLD CUP. AND THE WEEK'S POLITICAL HAD NUNS -- HEADLINES AND MUCH MORE. >> THIS IS THE PBS NEWSHOUR. >> THE STATE DEPARTMENT ISSUED A LEGAL OPINION THAT SAID SAUDI

ARABIA'S CROWN PRINCE AND PRIME MINISTER HAS IMMUNITY FROM U.S. COURTS. THE CROWN PRINCE HAS BEEN SUED IN THE U.S. BY THE FIANCEE OF JOURNALIST JAMAAL KHASHOGGI. HE WAS MURDERED IN THE EXTENDABLE CONSULATE -- ISTANBUL CONSULATE. -- INCREASE OIL PRODUCTION AMID HIGH GAS PRICES. SO SHOULD THE U.S. HAVE BEEN TOUGHER WITH SAUDI ARABIA? JOHN BELLINGER WITH THE LEGAL ADVISOR TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT DURING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND GARY STANTON. FOUNDER OF GENOCIDE WATCH. WELCOME TO YOU BOTH. LET'S JUMP RIGHT IN. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS CALL BY THE U.S.? >> I THINK THE STATE DEPARTMENT GOT THIS WRONG.

THE FACT IS THAT THE LAW HERE IS THE FOREIGN SOVEREIGN IMMUNITIES ACT OF THE UNITED STATES AND IN THE OPINION THEY GAVE, THE ONLY CITED INTERNATIONAL LAW. THE FOREIGN SOVEREIGN IMMUNITIES ACT HAS A NUMBER OF EXCEPTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED BY CONGRESS AND SIGNED INTO LAW. THE 2008 DEFENSE ACT WAS ACCOMPANIED WITH AN EXCEPTION TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO SUE CERTAIN GOVERNMENTS THAT WERE DECLARED TO BE TERRORIST STATES. IN 20 THERE WAS ANOTHER ACT PASSED, THE JUSTICE FOR VICTIMS OF TERRORIST ACT, IT TAKES AWAY THE STATE DEPARTMENT'S ABILITY TO DESIGNATE A COUNTRY -- IT MAKES IT POSSIBLE TO SUE ANYBODY INVOLVED IN MURDER, TORTURE, HIJACKING AND HOSTAGETAKING. >> YOU THINK THIS SHOULD HAVE

FIT UNDER THAT EXPENSE -- EXCEPTION. >> IT'S CLEAR HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MURDER AND TORTURE OF JAMAAL KHASHOGGI. >> PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID THAT MBS DID ORDER THE OPERATION THAT LED TO HIS MURDER. WHY ISSUE IMMUNITY IN A MURDER CASE? >> FOR THE REASONS YOU JUST MENTIONED, THIS WAS A VERY UNCOMFORTABLE IF NOT UNPALATABLE DECISION FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO HAVE TO MAKE GIVEN THE AWFUL CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE KILLING OF JAMAAL KHASHOGGI. THE ADMINISTRATION WAS SIMPLY COMPLYING WITH ITS OBLIGATIONS UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, WHICH RECOGNIZES THAT HEADS OF STATE AND GOVERNMENT LIKE SALMAN ENJOY IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL SUITS OR IN FACT FROM CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS IN THE COURTS OF OTHER COUNTRIES. SO UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, HE HAD IMMUNITY HERE AND FOR THAT REASON GOING BACK DECADES, EVERY

ADMINISTRATION HAS ASSORTED IMMUNITY ON BEHALF OF ANY FOREIGN HEAD OF STATE WHO WAS SUED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, OFTEN FOR REALLY HORRIFIC ACTIONS. AND I WAS LEGAL ADVISOR TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT, I HAD TO SIGN IMMUNITY FOR POPE BENEDICT WHO WAS SUED WITH RESPECT TO THE CLERGY SCANDAL. THIS WAS SIMPLY COMPELLED BY INTERNATIONAL LAW. >> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? DECADES OF PRECEDENT. >> I THINK THE REASON THAT DOESN'T HOLD HERE IS THAT MBS IS NOT THE HEAD OF STATE IN SAUDI ARABIA. >> HE IS PRIME MINISTER. >> THEY JUST MADE HIM PRIME MINISTER. THE HEAD OF STATE IN SAUDI ARABIA IS THE KING. THIS IS JUST A PRINCE. THENLY ONE WHO WOULD HAVE THIS RIGHT UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW WOULD BE THE KING. >> WHAT WOULD BE THE U.S. OPTIONS IN THIS CASE?

>> I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO SEE THAT HE COULD BE SUED AND THAT IS SPECIFICALLY ALLOWED UNDER THE FOREIGN SOVEREIGN IMMUNITIES ACT AND ITS EXCEPTIONS. HE'S NOT BEING TRIED CRIMINALLY HERE. THIS IS A LAWSUIT TO GET COMPENSATION FOR THE MURDER OF A MAN. A VERY GREAT MAN IN FACT. FOR MTHIS IS NOT A CASE WHERE IT WAS GOVERNED BY INTERNATIONAL LAW AT ALL. IT WAS GOVERNED BY THE FOREIGN SOVEREIGN IMMUNITIES ACT. >> WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE COULD BE POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS HERE? COULD ASKING TO INCREASE OIL PRODUCTION HAVE INFLUENCED THE DECISION? >> I THINK THE POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS WOULD HAVE GONE THE OTHER WAY. THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WAS PROBABLY SO ANGRY WITH SAUDI ARABIA RIGHT NOW AND REALLY UPSET ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR KILLING THEIR POLICY VIEW WOULD HAVE BEEN NOT TO FIND IMMUNITY. INTERNATIONAL LAW PROVIDES THAT HEAD OF GOVERNMENT LIKE THIS AS WELL AS A HEAD OF STATE AS

WELL AS FOREIGN MINISTERS ENJOY IMMUNITY. UNFORTUNATELY WITH RESPECT TO WHAT MR. STANTON SAID, THE FOREIGN SOVEREIGN IN -- IMMUNITIES ACT DOES NOT APPLY. THE SUPREME COURT HELD THAT THE IMMUNITY OF HEADS OF STATE OR GOVERNMENT IS GOVERNED BY INTERNATIONAL LAW. SO I THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HERE PERHAPS LOOKING BACK AT THINGS THAT HAPPENED DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAID WE WANT TO COMPLY WITH INTERNATIONAL LAW, DO WHAT THE UNITED STATES REGULARLY DOES, EVEN THOUGH IT'S UNPALATABLE IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES. >> COULD THE U.S. HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING? >> EXACTLY. THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT THAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAVE TO GIVE AN OPINION TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. >> THAT WOULD MEAN HE COULD STILL BE SUED. >> HE COULD BE. IT'S REALLY UP TO THE JUDGE. THIS IS A JUDICIAL DECISION. IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE AN OPINION FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT. AS I HAVE ALREADY SAID, I THINK

THE STATE DEPARTMENT GOT THIS WRONG. AND NOT ONLY THAT, THERE WAS A SUPREME COURT CASE IN WHICH JUSTICE STEVENS HELD AND THE COURT DECIDED UNANIMOUSLY THAT FOREIGN OFFICIALS DO NOT QUALIFY FOR SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY AND THAT IS W THIS IS A MISAPPLICATION OF LAW. >> WHAT DOES THIS MEAN IF HE IS SHIELDED FROM ANY KIND OF SUIT FOR THE ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE MURDER OF JAMAAL KHASHOGGI? >> THIS IS THE ARGUMENT -- THAT WHEN A PERSON CAN'T BE SUED, THE PERSON HAS IMPUNITY. THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WENT TO GREAT PAINS TO STATE IN THEIR LEGAL BEF THAT WE CONDEMNED THE KILLING, IT WAS WRONG, IT WAS HEINOUS, BUT SIMPLY OBSERVING INTERNATIONAL LAW HERE , MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN HAD IMMUNITY IN THESE COURTS THAT

THERE WOULD BE OTHER WAYS TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE, JUST NOT IN THE COURTS OF THE UNITED STATES IF THE U.S. IS GOING TO COMPLY WITH OUR LONG-STANDING OBLIGATIONS UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW AND ACT THE WAY WE ALWAYS HAVE, WHICH IS TO RECOGNIZE THE IMMUNITY OF FOREIGN HEADS OF STATE AS WE EXPECT OTHER STATES TO TREAT OUR HEAD OF STE IN THEIR COURTS. >> IT IS CERTAINLY ANOTHER LAYER AND A VERY COMPLICATED RELATIONSHIP. THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE. >> THE MEN'S WORLD CUP BEGINS IN QATAR, BUT CONTROVERSIES FROM HUMAN RIGHTS CONCERNS TO OWNERS PRESS RESTRICTIONS HAVE SHATTERED THE EVENT. THE TINY GULF NATION WENT ON A STADIUM BUILDING SPREE RINGING THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF MIGRANT LABORERS.

THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS STORIES ABOUT THE LARGELY SOUTH ASIAN WORKFORCE BEING MISTREATED. MORE THAN THREE DOZEN HAVE DIED ON THE JOB. WE PARTNERED WITH INDEPENDENT FILMMAKERS TO HEAR FROM SOME OF THOSE WORKERS ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE WITH RAMPANT ABUSE, LOW PAY AND SQUALID LIVING CONDITIONS. >> MANY OF THE WORKERS BEHIND THE GAMES ARE NOW THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY, BACK IN THEIR HOME COUNTRIES WITHOUT THE MONEY THEY SAY THEY ARE OWED. FARMWORKERS FROM NEPAL WENT TO QATAR TO BUILD STADIUMS IN THE HOPES OF BUILDING BETTER LIVES FOR THEMSELVES. >> WE CAN TO EARN MONEY HERE, SO WE HAVE TO GO ABROAD. >> I COULD EARN ALMOST DOUBLE WHAT I EARN HERE. THAT IS WHY I WENT. >> THE PROMISE OF GOOD WAGES IS A SEDUCTIVE ONE. BUT TO SECURE THE JOB, THEY MUST FIRST PAY AGENTS A HEFTY

RECRUITMENT FEE, ILLEGAL UNDER QATARI LAW. IT'S A FEE THEY CAN ONLY AFFORD BY TAKING OUT MASSIVE LOANS. >> THIS IS NORMAL. EVERYONE PAYS THIS. PEOPLE SAY FREE VISA, FREE TICKET. IN REALITY, THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN. ALMOST ALL PEOPLE FROM NEPAL PAY RECRUITMENT FEES. >> HE BORROWED JUST OVER $1500, MORE THAN A YEAR'S SALARY. >> WE WERE TOLD ALL OUR EXPENSES WOULD BE REIMBURSED AS SOON AS WE ARRIVED. THEY TOLD US NOT TO WORRY. THIS WAS ALL A LIE. >> SINCE QATAR WON THE BID TO HOST 12 YEARS AGO, THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS REPORTS OF WORKER EXPLOITATION, SUBSTANDARD LIVING CONDITIONS AND WORKER DEATHS. THE SMALL GULF STATE RELIES ON

MIGRANT LABOR FOR ITS WORKFORCE. IT PLEDGED REFORM OF WORKING CONDITIONS IN 2017. A COMMITMENT TO THE INTERNATIONAL LABOR ORGANIZATION. THE ADOPTION OF MINIMUM WAGE AND A SYSTEM OF MONITORING LABOR PRACTICES WERE WELCOMED BY THE HEAD OF FIFA. >> IN A VERY SHORT TIME, THE PROGRESS IN TERMS OF HUMAN RIGHTS IS REALLY GROUNDBREAKING. >> NOW AN EXPLOSIVE REPORT FROM HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION ALLEGES THAT THE CHANGES WERE ONLY SURFACE DEEP. THE CEO EXPLAINS THAT IN REALITY , IMMIGRANT WORKERS WERE STILL BEING SUBJECT TO SYSTEMIC ABUSE BY THE COMPANIES AND OFFICIALS IN QATAR. >> WE INTERVIEWED NEARLY A 1000 WORKERS. THERE'S A VERY CLEAR PICTURE THAT EMERGES. WORKERS WHO HAVE BUILT THE STADIUMS FOR THE WORLD CUP HAVE

BEEN SUBJECTED TO FORCED LABOR PRACTICES AND SOME OF THE BIGGEST COMPANIES IN THOSE PROJECTS ACTIVELY HID THOSE WORKERS FROM THE PROCESS. 'S REALLY CLEAR THAT THIS IS A TOURNAMENT BUILT ON THE BACK OF FORCED LABOR. >> A GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN CALLED IT A COMPLETELY UNBALANCED PICTURE OF THE SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS. WHAT HE WAS SERVED AT DINNERTIME DIDN'T FEEL LIKE PROGRESS. >> SOMETIMES THE COMPANY GAVE US ROTTEN FOOD THE FISH WOULD SMELL DISGUSTING. >> EVEN SOMETHING AS BASIC AS GETTING ADEQUATE WATER IN THE DESERT WAS A CHALLENGE. >> IT GOT UP TO 100 25° FAHRENHEIT. THE WATER WE GOT WAS ALMOST 90% ICE. WE ASKED WHY THEY DID THAT AND TOLD THEM IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO DRINK WATER LIKE THAT. THEY SAID THEY FROZE IT BECAUSE IF THEY PROVIDED NORMAL WATER, THE WORKERS WOULD DRINK MORE. >> THE ONLY TIME THERE WAS

ADEQUATE WATER WAS WHEN AN INSPECTION WAS DUE. >> THE COMPANY WAS ONLY NERVOUS WHEN FIFA CAME TO INSPECT. >> REGULAR SPOT CHECKS BY OFFICIALS WERE PERFORMED TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH HIGH STANDARDS IN WORKER WELFARE. THE IDEA WAS TO CREATE A SPACE WHERE WORKERS COULD TALK DIRECTLY TO FIFA, BUT THE COMPANY MADE SURE THEY NEVER GOT THAT CHANCE. >> THEY WOULD RING THE FIRE ALARM ON PURPOSE. WHEN ALL THE WORKERS GATHERED AT THE ASSEMBLY POINT, THEY WOULD MAKE EVERYONE GET ON BUSES AND DRIVE US AWAY FROM THE STADIUM. THE COMPANY WOULD TELL FIFA THAT WE HAD ALL GONE FOR LUNCH. >> THE SYSTEMS CREATED IN 2017 TO HOLD THE COMPANIES TO ACCOUNT ON THEIR TREATMENT WERE BEING PURPOSEFULLY EVADED. EVEN TWO MONTHS AGO, THE HEAD OF QATAR'S SUPREME COMMITTEE OVERSEEING THE GAMES HAILED THE PROTECTIONS IN PLACE AND AN

ANNUAL GLOBAL AFFAIRS FORUM. >> WE LAUNCHED REFORM. THESE WERE SET UP TO ENSURE THAT WORKERS HAD A SAFE ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY COULD RAISE CONCERNS AND GRIEVANCES WITHOUT ANY FEAR OF REPRISAL. >> EVEN WHEN THEY COULD COMPLAIN, THEIR CONCERNS WERE IGNORED AND THEY KNEW THAT COMPLAINING THAT THEY COULD LOSE THEIR JOBS. >> ONE DAY MANY OF US WENT TO MAKE A COMPLAINT. LATER THEY CALLED ALL OF US TO THE CAMP AND SD IF WE DID THIS AGAIN, THEY WOULD SEND US BACK HOME. >> IF THE FOREMAN COMPLAINED ABOUT THE WORKERS, THEY COULD GET FIRED. IF WORKERS REACTED ABOUT ANYTHING, INSTEAD THE WORKERS WERE CHANGED. BECAUSE OF THIS, WORKERS DID NOT >> THEY USED TO PUNISH US FOR COMPLAINING. THEY USED TO MAKE A SIGN THE WARNING LETTER.

WE WERE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAD TO TOLERATE THINGS AS THEY WERE. >> QUITTING WAS NOT AN OPTION. THEY WERE TRAPPED IN THEIR SITUATION BY THE 36 INTEREST ON THE RECRUITMENT FEE LOAN AND UNPAID WAGES. >> I DESPERATELY WANTED TO GO HOME IN THOSE MOMENTS, BUT THEN I WOULD REMEMBER MY FAMILY'S SITUATION. APART FROM THE LOAN I TOOK TO PAY THE RECRUITMENT FEE, MY FAMILY HAD OTHER DEBTS. WE WERE AROUND $5,300 IN DEBT. I COULD NOT EVEN THINK OF COMING BACK TO NEPAL. >> EVENTUALLY THEY DID GO BACK. THEY HAD TO. HE HAD HIS WORK PERMIT TAKEN AWAY AND HE TRIED TO SWITCH JOBS. HE WAS DEPORTED UNDER COVID RELATED PRETENSES. NEITHER WAS PAID WHAT THEY WERE OWED. >> I HAD EXPECTED TO EARN $9,000

IN THESE THREE YEARS, AND I EARNED A THIRD OF IT. >> NOT ONLY ME. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF WORKERS LIKE ME WHO ARE NOT GETTING WHAT THEY ARE OWED. THERE ARE MANY OF US. >> THEY ARE NOT ALONE. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF OTHER WORKERS LIKE THEM, EACH NODE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS UP TO ABOUT HALF $1 MILLION OF MONEY. THOSE LIVES COULD BE TRANSFORMED IF QATAR AND FIFA COMPENSATED THOSE WORKERS WHO MADE THE TOURNAMENT POSSIBLE. >> THE TEAMS TAKING PART IN THE WORLD CUP WILL SHARE AN ESTIMATED $440 MILLION BETWEEN THEM. THERE IS A CALL FOR FIFA TO SET ASIDE THE SAME AMOUNT FOR THE MIGRANT WORKERS WHO MADE IT ALL POSSIBLE. STAGE IS SET FOR ONE OF THE WORLD'S BIGGEST TOURNAMENTS TO KICK OFF. THE HOPE IS THOSE WHO HELPED BUILD THEM WANT TO BE LEFT BEHIND.

-- WON'T BE LEFT BEHIND. >> IN OUR ONGOING SERIES, WE HAVE DOCUMENTED THE CHALLENGES MANY FACE AFTER INCARCERATION. THINGS LIKE GETTING AN ID AND HOUSING AND A JOB. MANY FORMERLY INCARCERATED PEOPLE ALSO LOSE THEIR RIGHTS AS PARENTS AND SOME ARGUE THAT SITUATION WAS MADE WORSE A LAW CALLED THE ADOPTION AND SAFE FAMILIES ACT SIGNED INTO LAW 25 YEARS AGO TOMORROW. GEOFF BENNETT IS BACK WITH THIS REPORT. >> A FULL-TIME STUDENT RISES EARLY EACH MORNING TO COOK BREAKFAST FOR HIS FATHER IN THEIR SAN BERNARDINO APARTMENT CHECKING TO SEE HOW HE'S FEELING AFTER DIALYSIS. TWO DAYS A WEEK, HE DRIVES 20 MINUTES TO RIVERSIDE TO TRY TO CONNECT WITH FORMERLY INCARCERATED PEOPLE. >> A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE STILL

TRYING TO SURVIVE. THERE ARE STILL TRYING TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND BETTER THEIR LIVES. >> HE WORKS AT STARTING OVER THINK, A RIVERSIDE NONPROFIT THAT HELPS PEOPLE NAVIGATE HOUSING, EMPLOYMENT AND GETTING THEIR RECORDS EXPUNGED. HE SPENT SIX YEARS INCARCERATED AS A JUVENILE FOR ATTEMPTED MURDER AND NEARLY 10 IN STATE PRISON FOR KIDNAPPING. THERE IS A HOLE IN THE CENTER OF HIS VERY BUSY LIFE. HIS DAUGHTER WHO WAS REMOVED FROM HIS CARE. >> SHE SHOULD BE HERE. I WASN'T GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY. IT WAS PRETTY MUCH BASED OFF OF, YOU HAVE VIOLENT FELONIES. EVEN IF THEY DON'T HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CARING FOR A CHILD. WE DON'T THINK YOU DESERVE TO RAISE YOUR CHILD. >> ZOE WAS BORN IN 2016 WHEN HE WAS 39 YEARS OLD. AT THAT POINT HE HAD BEEN OUT OF PRISON FOR YEARS AND MANAGED TO FIND STEADY WORK, HOUSING AND A

CAR. DURING CHILDBIRTH, HER MOTHER TESTED POSITIVE FOR OPIATES. SHE HAD LOST OTHER CHILDREN, TRIGGERING THE INVOLVEMENT OF STATE AGENTS WHO LOOKED AT HIS CRIMINAL RECORD. THEY DECIDED HE WASN'T FIT TO BE ZOE'S FATHER. HIS RIGHTS WERE TERMINATED AND ZOE WAS ADOPTED. >> BECAUSE OF MY HISTORY OF VIOLENCE, WHEN I WAS A YOUTH IN MY ADOLESCENCE AND BECAUSE OF MY DAUGHTER'S MOM HAVING OTHER CHILDREN IN THE SYSTEM, THAT WAS AN AUTOMATIC WAY FOR THEM TO PUT MY DAUGHTER ON FAST TRACK ADOPTION. >> IN NEARBY ANAHEIM, MOST MORNINGS STEPHANIE GETS HER 13-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER READY FOR SCHOOL BEFORE COMMUTING TO LOS ANGELES FOR HER JOB AT A NEW WAY OF LIFE, ANOTHER REENTRY ORGANIZATION. SHE HAS A FULL-TIME JOB, HER OWN CAR AND APARTMENT AND IS WORKING TOWARDS HER BACHELORS AT CAL STATE FULLERTON.

HER FAITH IS A BIG PART OF HER LIFE AND SHE RECENTLY PUBLISHED A BOOK OF POETRY. ONLY A FEW YEARS AGO, JEFF WAS HOMELESS AND BATTLING METH ADDICTION. SHE GAVE BIRTH TO A DAUGHTER THAT WAS PLACED IN FOSTER CARE AFTER HER POSITIVE DRUG TEST. >> AFTER GIVING BIRTH AND HAVING HER TAKEN, IT JUST CAUSED ME TO FALL DEEPER INTO MY ADDICTION. FROM 2016 UNTIL 2018, ICE BENT PROBABLY FOUR TIMES IN AND OUT OF JAIL. I WAS CONSTANTLY GETTING ARRESTED FOR MULTIPLE THINGS SUCH AS PETTY THEFT AND POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE. >> A JUDGE TERMINATED HER PARENTAL RIGHTS AND HER INFANT DAUGHTER WAS ADOPTED WITHOUT HER KNOWLEDGE. >> NOT EVEN KNOWING WHAT SHE LOOKS LIKE IS THE HARDEST PART BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I COULD BE WALKING AND MY DAUGHTER COULD WALK PAST ME AND I WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW IT WAS HER.

>> 25 YEARS AGO, THEN PRESIDENT CLINTON SIGNED INTO LAW THE ADOPTION AND SAFE FAMILIES ACT WITH OVERWHELMING BIPARTISAN SUPPORT. HER RESPONSE TO TOO MANY CHILDREN LANGUISHING FOR TOO LONG IN FOSTER CARE. >> THE NEW LAW WILL SET MEANINGFUL TIME LIMITS FOR CHILD WELFARE DECISIONS. >> THE LAW INCENTIVIZED STATE CHILD WELFARE AGENCIES TO MOVE CHILDREN INTO ADOION MORE QUICKLY, INCLUDING A PROVISION THAT SAID IF A CHILD SPENDS 15 OF THE PREVIOUS 22 MONTHS IN FOSTER CARE, AGENTS MUST MOVE TO TERMINATE PARENTAL RIGHTS WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS. FOR YOUNG CHILDREN THE TIMELINE COULD MOVE FASTER. THE LAW DID WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO. 25 YEARS LATER, MANY ARGUE IT ALSO INCENTIVIZED THE BREAKING UP OF BLACK, BROWN AND POOR FAMILIES IN NEED OF HELP. >> DEMOCRATS LIKE BILL CLINTON

DIDN'T WANT TO APPEAR SOFT ON CRIME. THIS IS A HORRIFIC COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCE OF INCARCERATION. >> THE FOUNDER OF STARTING OVER THINK -- INC. RECENTLY WELCOMED FAMILIES -- AS WELL AS CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES, WHICH SHE REFERS TO AS THE FAMILY REGULATION SYSTEM. >> MY MOTHER WAS INCARCERATED, MY SON, THREE OF MY CHILDREN WERE ADOPTED OUT WHILE I WAS GOING IN AND OUT OF JAIL AND PRISON AND ADDICTION AND THAT I HAD TO FIGHT TO GET MY GRANDCHILDREN OUT OF THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM BECAUSE OF A CRIMINAL CONVICTION. >> WINS STATE CHILD WELFARE AGENTS REMOVE A CHILD FROM A PARENTS CARE, THEY TYPICALLY OFFER A PLAN FOR REUNIFICATION. BUT IT PUSHES TOO QUICKLY TO

TERMINATE PARENTS RIGHTS AND DISPROPORTIONATELY HURTS THE POOR AND PEOPLE COMING OUT OF INCARCERATION. AMPLIFYING DISPARITIES. >> WE RECOGNIZE AT LEAST MOST OF US RECOGNIZE THAT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM HAS RACIAL BIAS INHERENTN IT AND THEN TO LOOK AT CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS AS A BARRIER TO FAMILY PRESERVATION, HE WILL SEE HOW WE ARE ACTUALLY MAKING THE ISSUE WORSE. >> CHILD WELFARE AGENCIES SHOULD OFFER MORE HELP TO STRUGGLING PARENTS TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER. >> IT'S NOT ABOUT FAMILY PRESERVATION AT ALL. IT COULD BE. IT COULD TRIGGER HOUSING ASSISTANCE. SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER TREATMENT. MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES. THE THINGS THAT MATTER AND WILL ALLOW A CHILD TO REMAIN WITH THEIR PARENTS. >> LAST YEAR KAREN BASS INTRODUCED LEGISLATION TO REFORM THE LAW, BUT THE BILL DIDN'T

EVEN GET A HEARING IN COMMITTEE. IN LIEU OF FEDERAL REFORM, ORGANIZATIONS LIKE STARTING OVER THINK AND A NEW WAY OF LIFE ARE PUSHING FOR CHANGES AT THE STATE LEVEL. >> I'M GLAD THEY BOUGHT US SOME MORE TIME SO NOW WE HAVE A COURT DATE IN DECEMBER. >> WHILE ALSO EDUCATING PARENTS SO THEY HAVE THE BEST CHANCE TO RETAIN THEIR RIGHTS AS PARENTS. ON THE DAY WE VISITED, BOBBY MET WITH THE MOTHER OF FOUR FIGHTING FOR CUSTODY OF HER YOUNGEST AFTER GETTING OUT OF JAIL AND FINDING SOBRIETY. >> I'M HERE BECAUSE I NEED HELP. THEY GIVE ME ANSWERS TO GO TO COURT WITH. WHEN I'M CRYING OR I FEEL DEFEATED, I CAN PICK MYSELF BACK UP AND NOT RESORT TO MY OLD LIFE. >> BUT MANAGED TO REUNITE WITH HER CHILDREN AFTER THEY WERE PLACED IN FOSTER CARE IN 2011 FOLLOWING HER ARREST. >> I TELL MY PARENTS, DON'T MISS

A DRUG TEST. IF YOU TEST DIRTY, LET THEM KNOW YOU NEED MORE HELP. THEY ARE EXPECTING US NOT TO ASK FOR THE HELP WE REALLY NEED. >> FIDEL DIDN'T GIVE UP ON BEING A FATHER EVEN AFTER LOSING HIS RIGHTS AS ONE. HE KEPT IN TOUCH WITH ZOE'S ADOPTIVE FAMILY AND PROVIDED RESOURCES AND TOYS. HIS DAUGHTERS ADOPTIVE FAMILY ONLY SPEAKS SPANISH, WHILE HE ONLY SPEAKS ENGLISH. HE HOPES OVER TIME HE CAN STRENGTHEN HIS BOND WITH HER. >> A LOT OF PEOPLE GIVE UP. I REFUSE TO GIVE UP BECAUSE I HAVE NO OPTIONS. I HAVE TO DO WHATEVER I CAN AND HAVE WHATEVER KIND OF RELATIONSHIP I CAN WITH MY CHILD. >> IT'S A BIRD AND HE AND OTHER FORMERLY INCARCERATED PARENTS ARE HOPING TO EASE FOR FUTURE FAMILIES. >> DEMOCRATS HAVE HELD THE

SENATE, BUT REPUBLICANS CLINCHED THE HOUSE THIS WEEK, SETTING OFF A SEISMIC SHIFT WITHIN THAT CHAMBER'S LEADERSHIP. HE RETURNED TO THE ANALYSIS -- WE TURN TO THE ANALYSIS OF JONATHAN CAPEHART AND HIS COLLEAGUE GARY ABERNETHY. A BUSY WEEK. I WANT TO START WITH THE NEWS JUST TODAY. YOU HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES APPOINTING A SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE A FORMER PRESIDENT. IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY MOMENT. I WONDER AS YOU WATCH THE WAY HE DID IT, WHAT DOES THIS SAY TO YOU ABOUT HOW THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS VIEWING THIS? >> THIS IS HUGE NEWS. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT VIEWS THIS AS SIGNIFICANT CASES THAT

NEED TO BE LOOKED INTO BY SIGNIFICANT PERSON IN AMERICAN LIFE AND AMERICAN POLITICAL LIFE, A FORMER PRESIDENT WHO JUST ANNOUNCED HE IS EKING THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL CYCLE WHICH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID WAS THE THINGHAT HAPPENED THAT NECESSITATED THIS MOVE. I THINK IT SHOULD SAY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ALSO ANNOUNCED WE HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATING, BUT WE ARE TAKING THIS SO SERIOUSLY THAT WE ARE GIVING IT TO A SPECIAL COUNSEL WHO IS QUITE LITERALLY OUT OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. HE'S OVER AT THE HAGUE IF MEMORY SERVES. THIS PERSON WILL BE IN CHARGE OF RUNNING THE REST OF THE INVESTIGATION. IT IS AN ATTEMPT BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND ATTORNEY GENERAL TO GIVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CONFIDENCE THAT THE INVESTIGATIONS ARE BEING DONE FAIRLY AND BEING DONE IMPARTIALLY IN THAT NO FAVOR IS

BEING GIVEN OR TAKEN AWAY FROM DONALD TRUMP. >> AS PART OF THIS WORK THEY ARE GOING TO DETERMINE IF THERE IS SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO BRING CRIMINAL CHARGES. DO YOU THINK FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD STILL RUN FOR OFFICE IF THERE ARE CRIMINAL CHARGES? >> MERRICK GARLAND HAS BEEN UNDER TREMENDOUS PRESSURE TO DO MORE IN THESE INVESTIGATIONS BY A LOT OF FOLKS ON THE LEFT AND THIS IS AN ESCALATION OF THAT. I FEEL BAD FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, FRANKLY. MUCH LIKE THE MOLAR INVESTIGATION, WE ARE NOW IN FOR THE AFTER DAY OF HEADLINES AND COMMENTARY AND SPECULATION AND BREAKING NEWS AND LEAKS ABOUT WHAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL IS INVESTIGATING AND WHICH DIRECTION IT'S GOING AND WHAT IT

MEANS FOR US ALL AND THAT'S TOO BAD. NOT TO SAY THIS WASN'T A PROPER STEP, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF THE PROSECUTOR COULD DO HIS WORK AND THEN ANNOUNCE LATER WHAT HE'S FOUND WITHOUT ALL THE SPECULATION AND HEADLINES IN BETWEEN. WE KNOW FROM ROBERT MULLER AND THE PRESSURE REPORT HOW THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT. THE POST REPORTED JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO THAT JUSTICE DOESN'T REALLY THINK THAT TRUMP HAD THESE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS AT MAR-A-LAGO BECAUSE OF ANY INTEREST IN TRYING TO PROFIT FROM THEM OR ANY NEFARIOUS REASON OTHER THAN HE THINKS THEY ARE HIS. HE'SRONG, BUT THAT'S NOT A REAL STRONG LEGAL CASE TO MAKE AGAINST HIM. THE SAME WITH JANUARY 6 INVESTIGATION. NOTHING THAT SEEMS TO RISE TO THE LEVEL OF CRIMINALITY. SHOULD HE KEEP RUNNING IF HE'S

CHARGED, I DON'T KNOW. IF THERE IS A WAY TO BRING HIS BASE BACK TO HIM JUST A MOMENT WHERE IT SEEMS LIKE MAYBE THEY HAD REASON TO SEPARATE, THIS IS THE TYPE OF THING THAT SEEMS TO DO JUST THAT. >> I SEE YOU SCRIBBLING FURIOUSLY. >> I'M GOING TO DISAGREE. I KNOW THAT OUR PAPER SAID INVESTIGATORS THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP TOOK THE PAPERS NOT FOR ANY MONETARY ADVANCEMENT BUT BECAUSE HE JUST WANTED TO HAVE THEM. IT IS STILL ILLEGAL. THOSE PAPERS DID NOT BELONG TO HIM. THEY BELONG TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHICH IS WHY THERE ARE LAWS AGAINST TAKING CLASSIFIED MATERIAL. TO THE POINT ABOUT LEAKS HAPPENING, THIS IS NOT A BAD DAY FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BECAUSE THE SPECIAL COUNSEL WAS APPOINTED. THIS IS FANTASTIC DAY BECAUSE IT TELLS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT THE GEARS OF JUSTICE ARE GRINDING ON DONALD TRUMP IN THE

SENSE THAT HE IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW. HE IS BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE THROUGH THE SPECIAL COUNSEL PROCESS AND IF THE SPECIAL COUNSEL SAYS WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TO INDICT HIM, AT LEAST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL KNOW AND THE EVIDENCE WILL BE LAID OUT THE REASONS WHY OR WHY NOT. THE ONE THING THAT'S DIFFERENT BETWEEN THIS SPECIAL COUNSEL AND WHAT HAPPENED WITH ROBERT MULLER IS THAT WE HAVE AN ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO WHEN HE GETS THIS REPORT, HE'S NOT GOING TO HOLD ONTO IT, RECAST IT IN A WAY THAT MISCHARACTERIZES WHAT THE REPORT ACTUALLY SAYS AND THEN RELEASES IT LONG AFTER THE NARRATIVE HAS BEEN BAKED. AND IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO EVEN SHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHAT HAPPENED. >> WHEN YOU LOOK AT AMERICAN LEADERSHIP -- YOU ARE COMING OFF THE MIDTERMS WHERE REPUBLICANS DID RECAPTURE THE HOUSE BUT

REALLY UNDERPERFORMED. FAILED TO GET TO THE SENATE LARGE BECAUSE OF TRUMP BACKED CANDIDATES. DO YOU THINK REPUBLICANS CONTINUE TO STAND BY HIM AS THIS PROBE MOVES FORWARD? >> I DON'T THINK REPUBLICAN LEADERS WILL COALESCE BACK AROUND HIM. I COULD BE WRONG. I HAVE BEEN WRONG BEFORE. I THINK WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT ARE THE GRASSROOTS REPUBLICANS IN TRUMP LAND ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO ARE LOOKING AT DESANTIS AND OTHER CANDIDATES WHO MIGHT BE GOOD ALTERNATIVES NOW, ESPECIALLY BASED ON THE PERFORMANCE OF THE MIDTERMS IN PART BECAUSE OF TRUMP ATTACKING DESANTIS WHICH JUST SEEMED STRANGE. NOW IT SEEMS LIKE ANYTIME TRUMP COMES UNDER ATTACK, THE BASE WRAPS THEMSELVES BACK AROUND HIM AGAIN LIKE A WALL OF PROTECTION AND THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF THING THAT COULD CAUSE THAT. WE WILL SEE TO WHAT DEGREE TH MAY HAPPEN.

>> I WANT TO GET TO CONGRESS NOW BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF SHIFT GOING ON THERE RIGHT NOW. YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF ACTIVITY ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE. YOU HAVE SPEAKER PELOSI STEPPING DOWN. YESTERDAY AS PELOSI WAS ADDRESSING HER COLLEAGUES SHE SAID, FOR ME THE HOUR HAS COME FOR NEW GENERATION TO LEAD THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS. I'M GRATEFUL THAT SO MANY ARE READY AND WILLING TO SHOULDER THIS AWESOME RESPONSIBILITY. WE HAVE A DIVIDED CONGRESS. IS IT GRIDLOCK? >> THERE'S ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY FOR SHARED GOALS. WHETHER THAT WILL HAPPEN REMAINS TO BE SEEN. LET ME DEAL WITH SPEAKER PELOSI FIRST. I AGREE WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN WHEN HE SAID THAT SHE WAS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL SPEAKER IN HISTORY. AND THERE'S NO DENYING THAT IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT SHE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO AS SPEAKER OF THE

HOUSE, MOST NOTABLY GETTING THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT PASSED THROUGH THE HOUSE WITHOUT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTE. EVERY TIME I HAVE INTERVIEWED SPEAKER PELOSI AND I'M TALKING TO HER ABOUT THE MACHINATIONS OF AND WHETHER SHE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET SOMETHING OVER THE FINISH LINE, SHE WILL ALWAYS SAY I GOT THE ACA THROUGH WITHOUT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTE. THAT IS A HUGE ACCOMPLISHMENT AND I THINK MILLIONS OF AMERICANS ARE VERY HAPPY SHE WAS ABLE TO DO THAT. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO NOTE IS SPEAKER PELOSI SAYS THE HOUR HAS COME FOR THE NEXT GENERATION. SHE HAS BEEN BRINGING THAT NEXT-GENERATION ALONG SINCE 2018. SHE PROMISED WHEN THE DEMOCRATS RETOOK THE HOUSE THAT SHE WOULD STAY FOR A FINITE PERIOD OF TIME. WHAT DID SHE DO? KATHERINE CLARK WAS ASSISTANT SPEAKER. HAKEEM JEFFRIES. PETE WHEELER WAS DEPUTY WHIP TO REP CLYBURN. THE OLD THREE AND THE NEW THREE

HAVE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER FOR YEARS NOW. THE FACT THAT EACH ONE OF THEM TODAY OR LATE YESTERDAY ANNOUNCED THEY WERE RUNNING FOR LEADERSHIP POSITIONS, EACH ONE, JEFFRIES FOR PELOSI, CLARK FOR HOYER, ANGULAR FOR CLYBURN. SHOWS THAT FOR DEMOCRATS IN DISARRAY, THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE ONE OF THE SMOOTHEST TRANSITIONS OF POWER WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS PERHAPS EVER >> I DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN TRANSITION. >> SOME REPUBLICANS LIKE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE SAY OUR PRIORITY IS TO INVESTIGATE. OTHER NEW MEMBERS SAYING THAT'S NOT MY PRIORITY. I WAS ELECTED TO FIX INFLATION, GAS PRICES AND SO ON. HOW DOES A LEADER, ANY LEADER, HOW DO YOU HEARD EVERYONE IN THE SAME DIRECTION?

>> IT'S NOT EASY. REPUBLICANS ELECTED BECAUSE THEY CAMPAIGNED ON HOW THAT INFLATION WAS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE SOUTHERN BORDER AND ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THEY DO IS HOLD A PRESS CONFERENCE AND TALK ABOUT THE HUNTER BIDEN HEARING INVESTIGATION. THAT'S A LEGITIMATE INVESTIGATION IN MY OPINION AND THERE ARE SOME OTHER LEGITIMATE INVESTIGATIONS, BUT KEEP IN MIND THAT'S NOT WHY YOU GOT RETURNED TO CONTROL OF THE HOUSE. FOCUS AT LEAST PUBLICLY ON THE THINGS YOU CAMPAIGNED ON, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE THERE FOR VERY LONG. IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY SHORT TIME BEFORE THE DEMOCRATS ARE RETURNED BACK TO POWER. ONE ITEM OF AGREEMENT THEY COULD LOOK AT WOULD BE THE IMMIGRATION PROBLEM. I THINK BOTH SIDES HAVE A STAKE

IN FIXING THAT AND CERTAINLY WE HAVE A HUMANITARIAN REASON TO FIX THAT. I THINK IF PEOPLE WOULD GET SERIOUS INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT AND SAY WE NEEDO TIGHTEN OUR SECURITY AT THE SOUTHERN BORDE WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING THAIS SOME KIND OF PATH TO CITIZENSHIP FOR FOLKS WHO ARE ALREADY HERE. LET'S GET SERIOUS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 15 OR 20 YEARS AND IT'S GOING TO TO COMPROMISE ON BOTH SIDES. I THINK THAT'S AN AREA THAT'S WORTH TRYING TO SAY CAN WE BRING BOTH SIDES TOGETHER AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE. >> I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CONSENSUS ON BOTH SIDES. I WANT TO COME TO BOTH OF YOU QUICKLY BEFORE WE GO. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT A MAN WHO HAS SAT THIS TABLE, THE LATE MICHAEL GARSON. I KNOW YOU BOTH KNOW HIM. I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY SOMETHING. >> I DIDN'T KNOW MICHAEL

PERSONALLY. THE MOST TIME I SPENT WITH HIM WAS AT THIS DESK. BUT I DID GET TO KNOW HIM THROUGH HIS WRITING. I CAME WHITE BELIEVING WRITING WAS CALLING FOR HIM AND HIS WRITING CALLED US TO HIGHER IDEALS. HE ALWAYS TALKED TO WHAT WE HAVE IN COMMON EVEN ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE IDEOLOGICAL SPECTRUM. HE HAD CONVICTION, PASSION, COMPASSION AND THAT IS WHAT I'M GOING TO MISS THE MOST, HIS VOICE. >> WHAT ABOUT YOU? >> I WOULD AGREE 100% WITH JONATHAN. MICHAEL WAS A GUY WHO WROTE WITH EMPATHY AND DEEP INTELLIGENCE. HE WAS AN EVANGELICAL CHRISTI AN WD HEIN CONSI THERE WERE DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT HOW EVANGELICALS DEALT WITH TRUMP AND ON, THIS IS A GUY WHO

WROTE VERY PERSONALLY. HE WROTE WITH GREAT EMPATHY. WHEN YOU CAME AWAY READING HIM, WHETHER YOU AGREED WITH WHAT HE WAS WRITING ARE NOT, THERE IS SOMETHING DEEP AND THOUGHTFUL THEY ARE TO THINK ABOUT. IT'S A VOICE WE ARE GOING TO MISS. >> I CAN'T THINK OF A BETTER NOTE ON WHICH TO END THIS CONVERSATION. MY THANKS TO YOU. THAT IS THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT THE PBS NEWSHOUR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. STAY SAFE AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND. >> MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY. ♪ MOVING OUR ECONOMY FOR 160 YEARS.

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