Roland Young, Seale, Craven on George Jackson (Part 1 of 2); The death of George Jackson

Right. Hello sisters and brothers and this is Roland young in the studio with Bobby Seale the chairman of the Black Panther Party and Carolyn Craven from KQED. Bobby Seale has a statement from the. And a communal new service of the Black Panther Party prepared by he would be nude and dealing with the events yesterday at San Quentin. And we'll talk about some other things after that first hello by read a little bit of the road I'm going to send you back it with all the people. No two words about it. And by the road I have to say that I remember you as one of the concerned brothers along with many of the people who came over to San Francisco County jail before I was extradited to Connecticut. And I just want to say to the people that my own feelings is a brother I was downtown. I just met the sister and she looks down. He's the only thing on the good news is this good young looks OK. You say human beings are human beings we all here together. A statement from the intercommunal News Service.

The incremental new services of the Black Panther Party you speak of the AP News Service is because of the UPI News Service and may things get going. I understand that we have people intercommunal News Service in Human Services whose meters intercommunal. Of cause the concept of intercommunal negates nationalism and negates racism shows the view and to connect to and to related. Interlocked and might I say cross related in every other kind of way that human beings and the universe and everything can be into related. I've been invited here happily by

Brother Roland and we have a statement from the servant of the people. And I would like to read that statement to the people in the community. This is very important that we read a statement to the people in the community in the communities nationwide Los Angeles what have you to the people. This statement before I read it I would like to say this statement is concerning. The knowledgeable situation that the people who are cognizant of right now that they realize that has happened that has occurred. As we listen to the regular news media but here we with the what we

would call the people from the media and the minister who have attended the con the minister but he the servant of the people and the statement is prepared and I will deliver it. I deliver because the central committee. One with the servant has suggested ordered and directed that to be done. And here is the statement concerning brother George Jackson. Concerning the situation at San Quentin prison. What happened yesterday. From in a community news service of the Black Panther Party the servant of the people who states that our position

is in support of the action of George Jackson. The first rule when a people's soldier is captured is to immediately start planning his next gig. Immediately start planning his Xscape his action was a political statement because he set the standard for all political prisoners. He took the only available avenue a red dress in state murder. The state created the violent situation that exist in San Quentin today. The state gives itself the arbitrary privilege of taking life the right to kill. Capital punishment sanction violence sanctioned violence which leaves no

room for Regis. Redress of grievance is the contract between the people and the state relation to their relationship to the laws of the land. People really will respect the laws that serve them. They will will tolerate though that they do not respect as long as there is an avenue for redress and change. Voting and petitioning and other actions are redress vehicles. But when capital punishment is a legislated the neutral relationship regarding a life between the people and the state breaks

down the person being threatened with death by the state has no alternatives but to defend them. All living things have inalienable right to protect their own lives their own lives all in their little rights must be protected. But to can continue correctly with the servant statement we state this. The minister the servant has stated this. If this state does sads it can take a life and people can do you know the basic integrity of man is predicated upon respect for life. The state does not have the right to take a life. Every

man has a right to preserve his own life. The state is supposed to represent the basic integrity of the individual. We should all whole life sacred and no one and groom the state should have the right right to snuff out life. No one including the state should have a right to snuff out life. Only through natural forces and acts of God should man give life up and science through its research and production of medicines is trying to combat the thing we call death. There is no capital punishment or might I say if there is no capital punishment to be correct

on any communal level. This would stop all wars of aggression. If there is no capital punishment on a criminal level this would stop all wars of aggression because the only time one could take a life is in the Defense of Life. Never in a retaliatory posture that is against individuals. But to continue with the servant statement and to sum it up George Jackson feel much of a Black Panther Party. Let me repeat George Jackson feel most of the Black Panther Party or soldier in the People's Army gave his life in an attempt to free political prisoners and to preserve his own dignity

and manhood. I feel Marshall George Jackson moved in a defensive manner. The state had threatened to take over the George's life. The executioner already had a hood over his head a glass cage had been built and euphemistically called a court room. The shackles were locked. George broke the shackles spurn the glass cage and defended his man in the spirit of freedom brothers and sisters people in every one community black community everyone interconnected in a lock in a relating from the black community to everywhere in the world. The minister to say this in his last paragraph and I

read Judge Jackson was a supreme servant of the people because he gave his life all that any human being can give when struggling for all the PERS people. This statement was signed by Huey P. Newton servant of the people from the Black Panther Party. And this is the statement that I wanted to read. Brother Roland let the people know party's position in relation to Brother George Jackson. A parting moment feel much obliged. You stated. She was stated in the opening sentence of the statement that your position is in support of the action of George Jackson. Do you have any particular kind of interpretation of the action that has differed from others that we've seen of what is your interpretation of what went down. The party's interpretation we receive from the

news and what we receive from the grapevine the party's interpretation is simply this. Judge Jackson a Black Panther Party member field marshal of the Black Panther Party. Having been murdered in San Quentin Prison guards the state of California Reagan and others have been murdered by these parties position related to George Jackson actions. It was simply this. He defended himself from Iran as the Iranians legislated existing forms of capital punishment capital punishment is a killing thing is a murderous thing. And when the state

decides that it has to kill people it offsets the right of the people in all since the right of the people to redress their grievances Now listen to this brother. Let's let all the people listen to this very closely of course and you just as me. If a man is dead he cannot redress. A man has been killed he cannot redress his grievances as a human being and the people can grasp the whole of this. The contract was made and I still make references to the servant's statement that I just writ that if a man is did how in the world. You tell me. Let us the people asked ourselves how can this man redress his grievances if he had been murdered in the gas chamber.

Murder in intellect and in an electric chair. Anyway in this country this is where we coming from. If that brother that Black Panther Party member George Jackson if that brother decided on his own in whatever way he wanted to do it to redress his grievances on the spot before they killed him in the gas chamber and we the people the party a vehicle only a vehicle for the people say that he read just his grievances on the spot. Do you have any particular interpretation as to the event itself how that went down. Like some of the statements that have come out from San Quentin of the quote official unquote position is that George

Jackson was being frisked after coming back from visiting someone who they won't say who. And at the time he brought forth a guy and from this chain of events went down etc. that led to his killing is just the way you interpret that. You know George Jackson mother. She said for to understand that she'd just simply doesn't believe at all that brother George had a gun in her right Liz so with respect to her feelings and with respect to Mrs. Jackson George's sister pinning penny Jackson and George's father Mr. Jackson. With respect to them and what Mrs. Jackson has said she states simply that she doesn't believe she believes it.

But the judge was murdered. But the thing to me. Let us get together. Whether or not that happened or how it happened we know that George was murdered. But the point I'm trying to get to that she didn't believe that he met again. She believes pushed out in the front of the situation and shot and killed and murdered. That's what she believes. And a mother and a daughter a father and Jonathan are brothers not here now. But if we can realize and Cargan that. That Mrs. Jackson feels the way she feels. The parting of the Black Panther Party with its in a

communalistic in a Camillus philosophy will come for the state to the people let them know and hipped I'm not defect per se but will hip to hip them the people to the fact that somehow another 30 seconds. Even if they had pushed George out in a situation that's why I didn't really come from. In a matter of seconds threw him out as a push to beat him and Fred to murder him. JAJA seen him trying to murder him. Rather a stupid and backed it up all the way causes revenue from the use of people's birth. He's here I'm coming from I am a part of will not back up from that that even when Mrs. Jackson feud Mrs. Jewkes on Mrs. Jackson

speaks of that she probably might be did right. We know Joe Jackson. We feel we understand just from reading his book. And by they all back up from no food being all back up from the races and reaction as you said to try to kill him and the party will come forward that his party People's Party a vehicle for the people that brother defend himself that Nkosi know that they want to kill him in a gas chamber in the first place. That's where we come in. I saw him and thought that was I think the same day as the last time that Mrs Jackson saw George I also saw him. I had gone to San Quentin to visit Rochelle McGee and there of course held in the same again George Jackson were held in the same wing of the adjustment center. And while I was talking to Shel George was coming back through after having

just seen his mother and was talking to a shell about something that I didn't understand and maybe you had more information about. He was concerned because there was another inmate on that in that wing who was causing trouble and seemed to be deliberately causing trouble on that wing the weekend before apparently. There had been gas shot into that wing and several of the inmates in that wing Henman's the this was weekend before last and I talked to him 10 days ago a week ago Thursday in San Quentin and who explained this to you this was this was the conversation was actually taking place between Michelle McGee and George Jackson. Oh you saw this when I was sitting right in the room going right and they were concerned that they were concerned about trying to cool down another prisoner who was causing trouble on the wing. And I wanted to know first of all if you have heard anything about that about the possibility that there may have been a provocateur in that wing and the second thing is do you have any idea who Larry Spain

is who apparently was the other inmate out in the. Out in the field with with George when he was shot. According to the story when he was I'll read the prose I read the news and I've heard about Brother spanking just now on this news program never heard about that is named Larry. Yeah I have not heard about. Some of the other things you mention and some of the shell McGee. And George holding a conversation about whether the news is there were you concerned about another inmate on the wing who was causing a trial never never heard about this. These are things I've just not heard about right now and I hope the party of the people are listening because. I'm warning myself about said room as you know. The party is wondering who the servant is wondering is the party going to try to find out from people that you know inside

and have contacts with inside the prison and are there are you going to try to ascertain exactly what happened. Do you think that is going to hurt Also will the community the party is not separate from the magnet. The party is going to move forward with the community people's we want the community people to. Read the party newspaper in a community service. That is the Black Panther. And ignore the service and hope that they will understand what we do investigate as a vehicle for the people and try to find out because we know the establishment. Warren parks and others. My try to distort the situation. Governor Reagan himself of course directing the.

Warden parks and other wardens of other jails I forget their particular names he had mentioned one to me but present Africa were calling for the shores of hope. NELSON You're right. NELSON He was from I'm from but he's from San Quentin which I'm a Nelson grade. I associate warden part you from a social one burst one of the old wardens came up from another prison. And he has been making statements and trying to distort the situation as to what happened. He has been laying the rumors. If some of the rumors are true what ascertain. What possibly is true and what possibly is not true. And an internal report to the people does in a communal News Service. Exactly what went down sick US president just from the news service. We have an idea just from reading news.

What possible and because of one we know Gerard's was a rightist people party member. He was dedicated to the people he was dedicated to the survivor program. And George himself would defend his dignity his manhood. But to defend your dignity manhood you must. Defend the need for the survivor program as a community the participant. Yes someone today I don't remember who it was called for a black and Third World member panel to investigate to investigate what happened. How did Mohammad Oh that's right is it. You know Howard Moore out of Angela Davis is chief attorney. Oh I called for a panel of Third-World black people to investigate what happened at San Quentin. Sister Angela probably did it as she probably requested IMO and died and of course for according to Howard more innocent and Angela Davis is of course very upset about about the death of George.

But if such a thing were called for with the Black Panther Party support that kind of investigations a party would be in the lead of the Black Panther Party was as readily here within a community service to inform the people to put in practice the need for gross and total investigation. Is the Black Panther Party going to call for any other action at this point we are calling now the party that George Jackson was a field marshal of and a member of. Field Marshal in the Black Panther Party. And you act like a gentleman. You know. Maybe I can trace off the attention for us and your grocer. You know my beliefs sure. When you start just reading the news reports and start talking about 30 seconds you know and remember and I'm still agreeing with Mrs. Jackson's position the problem of

what ever black man that comes for to resists and also to write ideas. I see the party says and really when the people call and they say look. Thirty seconds. And Parkes is talking about the God of the day. Three of the inmates who are in the prison would probably be defined. OK I could time it who might've wanted to kill Judge Jackson or who might have been working with the pigs to murder George Jackson in the same manner that Jackson himself explained. But. You start talking about three and three and then three more wounded. And 30 seconds.

How are we going to cognize real live. What was going on up there when we read the news reports. You know it's shocked me shocked. The servant who painted it shocked the sins committed by God but don't get it is that when you start talking about 30 seconds that's gone get down to nitty gritty and focus in on just a little bit. You would have to imagine from reading the news reports. That it would take take a leaf half a second to a second to do with the accused George of dawn. And if it was now and suppose you lose three more that was wounded but the third was the did I think that only 5

did in George and including the things that they're going to say there was eight. When you read a newspaper if you cognizant through the lines of what happened to eight seconds had to be. Good song and this brother wretches have been dealing he had to be swinging in the front. And why I was leaving on to the next and here to be swinging and back they said that so many people could be saying this sand that people were cutting their throat and a party of abhorrent violence. You know often rely on how oppressed people. Will make decisions on their own. So the whole of

the violence being done to them. But imagine this thing. In 30 seconds and with the huge GA We they have to say he didn't do it. We read newspapers and read the hear the magic all he did do and he did do it man and man was running down the streets running down the hall that plays and was dealing with a knife in one hand the gun another hand with the press running down and the president to nominate Wade. Whatever France Fernand see it. And wretched of the earth. And that brother was dealing with a knife and gun in hand he when Gavin he was dealing with feelings and making a quest for freedom for the world's poor oppressed people in the midst of the most races Dechen a present system that exists in this country. I could go on and on and on I'm just talking about just reading the press using if you imagine 30

seconds on the other hand you might have to consider what Mrs. Jackson said. But just as an individual from Reading to pass. What the party looks at. But then the second brother Joe Jackson is ready to deal in a revolutionary fashion when backing up but you have to understand why he was denied might be you next question Why is Dylan so used to have to break down here and take care of a couple of things. This broadcast is going throughout the whole Pacifica network and so we have to let people know that this is the Pacifica Radio Network. Oh. This is KPFA and the KPFA B in Berkeley. OK we're back again with our interview with Bobby Seale

of the Black Panther Party Chairman of the Black Panther Party and Carolyn Craven from KQED television and we're going to open up the phones if that's OK with you Bobbie. I really want to go in and talk about the always value in a connected and you know related. All right let me give you the telephone numbers that you can just call into. We have actually four lines but I'm going to give you two numbers one number will cover three lines and the other number just covering one line in the East Bay. The telephone number is 0 8 4 8 6 7 6 7 8 4 8 6 7 6 7. Now it also rings on the six eight and six nine but if you call six seven you get through 8 4 8 6 7 6 7. If you're calling from San Francisco or Moran or that side of the bay the telephone number is 9 8 1 7 7 3 0 9 8 1 7 7 3 0. We'll get into a few more questions and so forth and then you just start calling in now and I'll probably be answering the phones I guess in the next five or six minutes. Give you all a chance to

call in. OK the numbers one more time 8 4 8 6 7 6 7 in the East Bay and in the West Bay 9 8 1 7 7 3 0 0. OK I guess we can start right now if you want to you know I think I'm going to. Keep you having that hearing anything. This is KPFA. Stance and still a question. Yes please do. Go ahead. I wonder if you have heard one of the guards said to Mrs. Jackson over the phone last night from San Quentin. Just look we killed one of your friends last year and we got another one here. And pretty soon you're not going to have any friends left and he left. I just heard that quote from you. I would want you to really. Say some more just what I'm wondering you know do they realize that

this is going out to the people that they realize what we think of them. We think they can what we think. Do the guards care what we think the guards here I mean just the prison the prison authorities can't. Probably Thank you. I think we've had quite a bit of experience with Reagan but I mean you haven't really the image that they're trying to project they are trying to project. SR let me run it down to you in just this be honest about in realizing cognize was going down there trying to project an image of repression. They the gards Reagan and those when charge of the prison system in jail they are the ones who kill and murder. In fact. That judge who was murdered a year ago August 7th a year ago August 7 they are the ones I know

that but I mean I'm wondering if you know if they realized how do you think I'm going to prop. Here's the kind of thing you know. You know what I think is I think people should get together not just individual party you hear an individual person there but people should get together and demand that those people that were in that be allowed to tell one thing did. You're right Jackson Lee that you know that facility with a gun in hand or did he not know the weapon when he went out with the you know whatever you want to see. I think they should answer that. I think they should be made to answer yes answers historically and presently. But I think everyone's looking man that. All right you know I did read on those and slavers of the ruling class system. Take black people from the shows of Africa with guns in hand. Yes. Did those in slaves than explode of

the ruling class who perpetuated that system. Did they in fact enslave people and expose them of their labor and murder them and rob them of their labor. 16 20 and 24 hours a day around the clock. Did they do that. Did in fact they explored the workings of this country. Yes they exploited them you can talk about in 1900 or 1999 1930s when the depression was going you can talk about today they are still exploding the workless. Did they do that and do they do that that us as that question. And I'm saying and you are saying and the people have to cognize how they understand and reflect the fact that in fact. These prison officials these Regan's and every other state in this country.

The adult authority the parole boards the guards in the jails the highway patrol the Marin City County police who were dispatched to the same one prison did in fact vey with their total system in fact murder. This is been brutal. They over kill system of oppression did in fact murder George Jackson. I say if we can answer that question and we can answer it by card nothing was happening. Did that happen. And we also asked the question Did George Jackson resists. Did George Jackson write letters. Did George Jackson write books. Did George Jackson come forward to explain their present existence. Did George Jackson and did Jonathan Jackson resist in a revolutionary fashion that makes of questions and makes us try to understand.

Like people go on foot no mo. Of course that's only one level at a particular time in a particular person or a particular situation based on decisions made by particular oppressed brothers. From there we asked us. Do and did the Black Panther Party move forward to deal with a viable survival program spending revolution in the community we do that now and asked us of this. Did George Jackson. Dad. Was George murdered or did he die in the name of seeing that these provide for programs in a community move with a quantitative increase on such a level that the people

begin to cognize Why are so many revolutionaries of bad but not so many revolutionaries alone and political prisoners who have been incarcerated. But the people in the community we refuse to receive separate ourselves from the many black brothers and sisters have been murdered in the community is Angela Davis defending the survivor program. Survival programs pending people's revolution based on people's revolutionary in a communal is enough philosophy that's practical practical and functional for all communities would do in fact. And of Dave's support that do support us to support the people. As Rachel McGee Rachelle Scuse me Rachelle McGee I support that we have to understand I shake my head when I say that I was shaken with a nod and a gesture that in fact George Jackson might have had a gun

with first s about the bombs that Reagan had verb's ass about that person is going us first as about the 20 million people that are hungry in this country and the most worthless technological side in the world. Let's first address existed. Something this as something that's relevant to solving the situation of a revolutionary inside a prison number one. I remember outside in such a situation we imprison them a tube of a brother and Prison them and one decided to fin himself from capital punishment. The state had already decided they were going to kill him. It's absurd to even go through a concept of a so-called fair trial for Judge Jackson and brother Spain who might be have been with him if he's got to go through a trial as absurd as that may have to run that kind of program.

This question did the brothers did people the George Jackson resists. I say all power to people. Maybe but I know he did it we have a long distance phone call and none about one you know take that sure that you don't have anything. Yahweh said later already this isn't from New York but this is KPFA and I am telling you this. Yeah. I'd like to add probably seem to be more to that story. Their mother has taken. You've been saying that you believe that your character is committed. Do it. On the first thing it is. A reactionary as soon as it is when one refuses to deal with the reality is that your wish and my just go jump of a bridge. That's a reactionary Susette. And if you begin to even try. To evaluate and equate. A

revolutionary soos sat with George X and from what you hear from the news etc then. A revolution or suicide in the part of George Jackson. Was a resistance. Against the oppression and that Turner resisted. Gave repros written prose resist. Other brothers and slavery resisted over well over 100 hundred thirty thousand fifteen years ago the brothers resisted. I'm saying this is him. It gave her prose a day of net turn and that and then Mark Busy busy day. Trying to get me some freedom. And I have a one on turn of the dad for that same freedom. That same very humane freedom that we all look forward to. And Judge Jackson that. If our printers Bunchy Carter dad. Because the pigs murdered him. Bobby Hutton that if Fred Hampton that. Because the pigs in the

reactionary. Imperialist murdered him. We call them reactionary in a cumulus. Party is revolutionary in a revolutionary communes. We say that the thinner land. Is being between a revolutionary in a reactionary. Reactionary souse that is based on those who refuse to deal with the reality exists. He's done imagine in 30 seconds. Imagine what might happen in 30 seconds when his daughter accusing George of it. I say the zeal. Right now let me finish finish one things was the. Sister Jackson. Brother George Jackson's mother. Feels that the brother was murdered. And she may be just did right. The Black Panther Party. Is 100 percent with.

That George Jackson was murdered. The first report I got he was just wounded and the first thing to come out of my limit tell us is the that if the brother is wounded something happen and there Jav gurney him up and one of them hospitals and they'll kill him anyway. Garden parks warden parks excuse me. And other wardens two three four hours before he could come I would have a press conference. I see the murdered George Jackson. I don't think he was dated. I'm not saying the brother had a gun in his hand but I'm saying if what they report nothing what they report and people have been going to relate to that. And if what they report is true then George Jackson was dealing. And Mrs. Jackson can prove and set forth the fact that her son was murdered was pushed down the situation and that's another thing we don't stand behind George jacking only the party members he was dedicated he defended to Survivor programs not going his own when he questioned the rest of it. Please.

Yeah yeah. Mike from what we know here we've been we've heard that the party is not related to the concept of a gun and I don't really have a clue. Back to this is what the word hell that people read on. And we want to do better about that. Well we know from fact. Jackson has communicated with the party of the member. Of the Black Panther Party. That. The servant Hugh P. Newton. Is the head of. That I am the chairman a. I mean Douglas is the minister of culture. David his chief of staff. Along with the residents committee members. I mean like. Wait a minute wait a minute sister this Finnish. Garden parks. Held up a renegade. Paper.

In front of the TV. This is peeing napery. Pigs trying is it black people against each other. In the party don't really today really does a viral programs. George Jackson supported ever survive a program the party put in function. George Jackson didn't back up. And what I'm trying to help you to that see. What I mean rather than the truth. Read extensively and I read serious literature and quite correct. Apparently you don't read that cleaver contrary I know I do revolutionary and we wanted to know if you had any communication with Elder point about that the better do it because I'm sure that every revolutionary related to Jackson adds another member Mary and that now is not the time for there to be debated between groups of revolutionary

because we have to make that. System. The best thing to start reading divisions. It's related to the fact. George Jackson. Related to the people's revolution in a communal philosophy. People's revolutionary new communal philosophy. He didn't back up from that made it a point he read write all of those articles he read every other article that he could get a hold of. And what I'm trying to say his analysis came down as a party member dedicated to the people's. Struggle dedicated to the people's revolution. He read him. And he in fact pronounced his position. With. The center committed to Black Panther card and. He pronounced and stated the fact. That he was unified. With the parting. DAVID He myself since committed back then from all chapters in branch of the

parting stuck in were dedicated to implement survivor programs to raise the kinds of the people to a point where the people in fact would move. With a people's revolution a struggle on a massive level because that is the true higher level. From there I think is necessary. Oh mother all right. This is the has and as I'm from them. I know. I've. Read articles by the brother. You should have read articles about her brother not only in this. She should have written articles in a communal News Service. I read the articles and you were doing that related to revolutionary I thought I knew that but I didn't get many great leaders and the principle that they always spoke of they're not going to let us know it's related.

And there it is. There are several Jackson something's There's a wooden soldiers argument with George Jackson denounced Eldridge Cleaver. As a Calder's a revolution a cult of individuals who want to run the party without a central committee who want to run the party owners vote George Jackson in fact did that. We've printed that the same Puritan branch of the Black Panther Party has denounced them. But of course now they M. Yonge we don't say that elves diva didn't give a new credit and do some of the people we give the man credit to the extent that he might've did some writings but he myself question some of those writings about I was doing because George Jackson. Was even a high level than him on his run when I'm getting to the point is that we have to come own up. Like Malcolm X said what you used in one thousand fifty five can be used in one thousands of

defy would use an 1063 can be used in 1967 and we're saying that George Jackson felt whatever George Jackson did you relate it. Philosophically dialectically. In his own practice to the Black Panther Party's philosophy he was a member of the party later. I'm not going to change about him that was just a development process and we understand development processes we're out here now struggling getting shot at it and keel feeding people getting shot at in killed for given free clothes and free shoes for people. Brother sister how in the world can we not when in fact we have to defend ourselves from the reactionary system. How in the world can you say

even in plaid with your questions George Jackson didn't relate to the fact that he had to defend himself from a system that already had children to kill him. The party got a bit like a Mary related I don't you know I read on it it might be clear then that I don't really. I'm going to get it right and George Jackson said himself in one of his articles on the Black Panther Party newspaper. It will be necessary for us to pick up the gun to defend ourselves but at the same time we have to realize that the hamma and the nail and Bill are not communes and serving our people in the community is just as important. So whether or not the guns. Doesn't appear in the paper. Well the party is killed by guns. We can deal with guns. We can deal with the finances. Whenever anyone

attack us and George Jackson dealt with the massive oppressive state system you know that was attacking him and saying that he was going to get you now I'm telling tell you something. You cannot use them as guns beyond the other two and I'm trying to tell you and splain to you and the people. That the hammer and the nail just like George Jackson say. And one is very out of print in the parties in a communal Newser with a hammer in a nail just important the gun is necessary to finish them. So by putting superficial inferences on guns being out Sister Sister Sister we have I'm not going they would have been the male. Thank you very much. When the women women don't get off don't get out of the. System. Let me tell you something. The people. In the history of black people.

Have never been so naive. To think. That only hammers the nails were not talking not only hammers and nails. They are the party newspaper that prints a correct idiology in the correct ideology of. Communalism revolution into communalism. There is not only guns but there are other things. You are interconnected with guns but we want to get rid of all guns. George Jackson moved in a manner to get rid of all guns. Now if you can remember about the need to end all aggression. If you can remember the emphasis on that then I would say SR. Very honestly. That youd be in very cult is. It nobody thought I might get rid of guns we would tell people today to keep guns in the home and defend themselves from any under attack by the reactionary forces. Police forces that you would as you would call them but I'm going to show you that is necessary.

To grasp. The fact. That while we build a commune in a community while we give clothing away while we give free shoes where those pieces will blow up them free clothing factories and free shoes fact is our attempt to do so. Just like they tried to blow up the offices in the last four years and kewl and murder a Black Panther Party members. Now if you can stand the love we're going to have to go on and I hope you'll listen. Thank you very much. Thank you in that you have really been by a jury you were very very much. I was relieved by the passage where they couldn't get enough people all interested in the good bad and the present you people read me. I mean that there are people in the community that really think we can't wait for it. I mean we can't wait for it. And we've got that problem.

Do you keep the people OK. I want to people who haven't been to rehab that makes to people's consciousness aware of the fact that they have to make a revolution and struggle with the survivor programs in fact given its value programs as they become institutional labs. We're going to deal with that and we're not going to back off from telling people not to do even those of our program let's keep it gone thanks for the call and thank you for the long people. Let me let me just say to the people when you call in and try to keep it as concise as you can because we have a lot of people waiting on the phones to talk I know that they a lot of things people I get in to people I talk to Bobbie and ask questions but have some regard for your other sisters and brothers who also want to get through and we have certain amount of time who must deal with these questions then. But we're going to go on. OK. We're talking to Bobby Seale chairman of the Black Panther Party and people are calling in the numbers I'll give you one more time in case you didn't get them are from the East Bay 8 4 8 6 7 6 7 there from San Francisco on the West Bay 9 8 1 7 7 3 0. CALLAN Yeah I just want to make one other announcement and that is that we've had a lot of discussion here with Bobby

Seale about Mrs. Jackson's press conference that was held this afternoon. Five minutes after this program the local I'm not sure whether the network does the KPFA in KPFA. The listeners will hear that press conference five minutes after this broadcast goes off the air thank you will go on to the next call now. OK KPFA going to get KPFA. Well hello Bobby's on the air. Yes I don't want to think of one thing long understanding that whether you're going to quit and the critter like you you can't beat them with you can be profitable and appear very pretty. Plan to kill people. I just can't deal with it here. I don't blame him and I don't care you know you know you take me there jacking your take you Greg you take Mrs. Jackson's position I don't blame you. There's a whole lot of things going to prison. And if he ever got them chains off his feet.

Then we asked and you can understand the possibility of the 30 seconds because the thought is it was a gas. When you describe it there is also one other thing. There are many people who are interested in doing what they can to help they are more interested now today than they were yesterday. And you get to be kind enough to tell them where and who and what they can do to help. We just finished giving away I think is two hundred ninety bags of free groceries to the people full bags of groceries to the people in a nonsmoking area around the bill boy Barakat. We boycotted Bill boy at the store. He called a community meeting the other night I think you only got three members or something like that from the guy I mean helping all along. The prison lost one and I want to get to that conclusion. There are better than we do know who can we contact.

We would like for you to contact the central headquarters of Vikram parting we would like for you to contact father Earl Neil of St. Augustus church. We would like you to contact Charles R. Gary and Jim Herndon a black lawyer and Charles Auger is firm. We would like for you to contact any organization that's functioning but we would prefer that you contact the Black Panther Party 10:48 Parappa St. in Oakland California. Thank you very much. Wait wait a minute wait a minute I was going to bother you a lot of people are probably calling to ask is this is the black guy at the car party specifically calling for any demonstrations this week. We will be calling for demonstrations I don't have any specifics right now. Each time we give the demonstration what the people who didn't in fact all looking at what rate we don't want to have a chance to talk. OK thank you. We will be calling the demonstrations and we will be telling the people explaining to OK that we're going to be

giving away free food to the poor Paris people in the community. We're going to be giving away free clothing as soon as we get together to produce some righteous clothing on time when a thousand new clothes for the poor people to come into you know me from the hippies and my friends like the way Oklahoma that's all right too but we want the black people and the poor oppressed people and she kind of people realize we come across with new clothes and if they get all this another thing they win where they want to but the fact of the matter is is that when we call a rally and we call some demonstration we want the people to dinner with the fact that free clothing free food information to the free medical clinics etc. and all the other some 12 survivor programs is the thing we want to people relate to and that is the three things you're going to call the community we'll be hearing from you about that they will be hearing about us regularly and we would like for them to come the poor press people in the community. It's time for us to identify ourselves this is the Pacifica Radio Network. This is KPFA and KPFA B and Berkeley.

We're talking with Bobby Seale chairman of the Black Panther Party and we're taking calls from people in 8 4 8 6 7 6 7 8 9 8 1 7 7 3 0. So far all the calls have been from East Bay in New York. I want to talk now to San Francisco people Carolyn Craven is also here with me to see if in just a moment is in consultation. OK. OK maybe you're on the air escaping FAA. Yeah I have a couple couple things which I heard reading but realize what what what what what Mark said today number one he was asked by somebody whether it's possible that the guys that were killed were told to go like with a gun before in the yard I literally didn't check. He said yes it is possible. Maybe that's it but I don't know he said. Why would Jackson even with the kids go out in the yard knowing

that there are people with machine gun fire being up in the gun toters. Q You're quoting We just killed at a distance of about 150 feet from a ghetto what which is what about. 40 feet above the ground now it seems to me that considering it was likely that he had and I do know that he would not be shot when he went out on the contrary when you're dealing with a revolutionary. Even if he's pushed out in front of the 14 like Ms Jackson said he might make a decision on that point to defend himself. I want to be I mean don't they have to just accept that the exception could be made that they would not kill him knowing that this would cause an immediate death of the people under arrest or captured and they'd have to have him there with the whole judge and hostage a year ago. Indeed and you know it went down about the same time.

I know that inside I will take it upon the judge and the other two hostages in that van with Jonathan Jackson and murdered that Judge Wright and I don't tell them I don't know. And I'm saying that George Jackson has enough sense to know that since they killed his brother since they killed Christmas since to kill Magelang murder them and kill the judge who there was no power structure the people who killed him. The police in Marin County who really killed him and. Why George Jackson was forced in position and even if a gun was thrown is selling it was a set up to murder him. Why shouldn't George Jackson continue to defend himself since he knew that it must have been a set up. You got to get in prison understand the step brother my made a decision I see he did right as in 30 seconds. Even if they had a gun in there to try to set him up to murder him like Ms Jackson said I'm saying he came out there and he did it. Natural nitty gritty and 30

seconds or less back and own up because he was resisting approach. Get right on it. I will ring to look at a list but on the contrary you dumb of the gunroom being told me out of range of a piston. Yeah 150 feet just really stood out to me about leaving I had a big push to have it just ahead. Well whatever happened I don't know what the gunman distances or what the parents have been at yesterday or today you know we might believe anything the parks say is and I disbelieve his distortions and we might get down a new greeted by this wild party the people in the community and others want to run and that's not a contest between let's get off on I just I don't know about any telephone contract I telephone existence and it just mean you not do know one thing though. Jackson didn't back up when people who was trying to murder him and who in fact did murder him. Right so you understand we come from together.

Yeah sure. All right the brother will come out of you know it was thirty five I was going to come out. How about. OK that's the people's investigation and I think you're going to go for oh I remember we might have to invest a lot more you know to still trying to put the minister in jail and kill him and murder him they're trying to murder the chief of staff David here you're trying to murder political prisoners who are not even known to the press. And I want to find the names on I'd like to come back on KPFA and that you know about him so you can be on the committee investigating the whole situation and making sure that the power structure and states and the emerging prisoners in jail because they set them up to be murdered but when we see one who would defend himself and 30 seconds I say let's dance with it because he wouldn't back up from you. Thank you for the call caller Rockabye let me tell people who are listening on the Pacifica network that the area code is 4 1 5 if you want to call them and the numbers again are 8 4 8 6

7 6 7 and 9 8 1 7 7 3 0. We're going to continue now talking to Bobby Seale chairman of the Black Panther Party. You're on the air at KPFA. Hello. Turn your radio down. I did thank you. Thank you. First of all I understand from what you're saying that you are supporting this new Texan theory that George Will murder. Is that right. Definitely but we have a theory but we relate to her because she is the mother. Family Judge Jackson John Jackson. The total agreement that he was murdered but I understood from your statement that he made first of all that he was supporting. Maybe I'm wrong. They feel that possibly George was trying for an escape so I was a little confused as to exactly what the parties stand. You

were in agreement that he was aware that he was actually trying to deal with murder. It always stayed it was that opposition is in support of the action George Jackson. But the first rule of the people soldiers captured he is to immediately start planning his excuse. If he's a revolutionary member of the Black Panther Party. I have George Jackson said do that. The part is is right on time. You know the saying he took the only available avenue to redress grievances against the state murder of the he was already set up to be killed in a gas chamber. We know that Reagan and others had done that as they're trying to and want to kill Angela Davis. Rochelle McGee and many other brothers of political prisoners on death row. The party is saying the sear that from every piece of available information that we can get from the news media that it's not

talking about 30 seconds of what happened what went down with him and George Jackson didn't agree with him. So we're not going to back off from that. At the same time when Mrs. Jackson come forth and try to explain her theory that he was Mary Matalin pushed out there. Yes he might have been pushed out there but at the same time we was pushed out of the brothers not know who he might have defended himself in 30 seconds on a nitty gritty level that Missa known it's no grits and was dealing with him on one and I've presented them. He's I'm talking about but I don't get it.