Black studies at San Francisco State : Clarence Thomas interviewed by Mike Traugott

This is Michael private for KPFA. And here with me is Mr. Clarence Thomas who is student coordinator of the Black Student Union at San Francisco State College. If your time is can you tell us something about the development of black studies and the BSU at San Francisco State has taken a position and they've been there will not be recognized. The black studies department because Nathan Harris is a person who has the revolutionary perspective in terms of education and like he is in fact a revolutionary educator. And like Heidi Collins knows this state of California realizes this as well as overall power structure because they moved on him at Howard University for the same reason being an advocate of revolutionizing the educational process of this country. Nathan is does not seem self as being an individual but being a a a a member of

the revolutionary. People who want to change this educational system so that it will begin to to serve the people. One of the main reasons why high Kauai has taken a position that Nathan will not be hired is due to the fact that he cannot tolerate to see a instructor. You see being a part of Massa speaking for the people and having a very close face to face a working relationship with the revolutionary students a sense of school State College he is. He has a personal or ego problem in terms of like seeing Nathan who is also a professor. You see being a Lyme Student B. Loved by the students and like being with the students is the life. Hi Carla

is in a position where as he's hated by law students and like he's alienated from the people. So like Karla I understand that contradiction and like this is one the main reason why he doesn't want anything here and there because Nathan represents a united front in terms of students and faculty members being together and moving against the state to like to like make that institution serve the community. Nathan Herr is going to be functioning as the chairman in exile which means that like he will still be functioning as a chairman out of the framework of the existing system mean that like he will not be paid for office serving as chairman. But like we see that is not being necessary because we must exercise free will meaning that like we cannot.

Take the position well they won't hire NATHAN So therefore Nathan will not be our chairman. Nathan will be our chairman and no one else will take that responsibility on. At this point we have an administrative committee to deal with the administrative phase of black studies. But Nathan hair is also part of the committee and his information is his skills are still being used to develop the black studies department and we take the position that no one else will fill that position of chairman of the department unless we decide that someone else will have that position. So Nathan will be functioning as a chairman in exile and the actions of a coward like not be recognised by us because we see Hi Carla as being a fascist

a pint any two of Ronald Reagan you see and we know that like the reason why the cow is in that position is because the power structure realizes that he will carry out their orders and will stand firm on the position of letting the educational institution. Being run by the businessmen and being run by the military establishment and so forth. When the strike ended last spring Hi coward I made several promises to striking students as to what he would do about the black studies department and other ethnic studies departments. Has he made any moves to carry these out. Coward. Has broken all of the agreement that is that was made between

the select committee which is a group that was established by a higher power and the board of the board of trustees to negotiate with the thermal Liberation Front. And. The agreements that were made by between the students and the select committee have been broken by high collar. One of the agreements that there was broken was the fact that Nathan hare. Well that the black studies department faculty and staff would be able to select a chairman of the department when that is attempted to be implemented. What happened was that hike I was the No and there will not be hired because he was involved in disruption of the college so therefore you will not have the opportunity to exercise self determination by hiring Nathan.

See self determination is the whole question in terms of the basic principle all around while why the hire car way is not going to be higher Nathan here because he's going to take the position that black students will not exercise self determination because. He represents the fascism which is growing in America and he represents the status quo. So therefore that is the reason why the agreement I have has been broken and this is something in which we are not surprised at all because the power structure has a history of Britain agreements. They broke many many treaties with the American Indians. They have broken treaties with the Vietnamese people and with with third world countries all over the world. What is the state

of the black studies department right now at this point the black studies department is a. They authorized and accredited up Department. We will be granting a bachelors of Arts degree in black studies but like we see black studies as not being a ongoing institution will be a vehicle for struggle. We see black studies department turning out turning out revolutionary educators doctors lawyers scientists who will be. Responsible to the people and not responsible to Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon to the McClellan committee or to the capitalists who control this country. We see the black studies department as as being a alternative to the existing educational system.

We think that the blacks that is the problem will set the example for how the educational experience should be in this country. So like Therefore we do not see the bludgers apartment as being institutionalized and in the sense of becoming becoming an ongoing stagnant Department. You see what I'm saying that will be functioning regardless of the fascism and the and the madness that is going on in this society. In other words we do not see it being incorporated into the system. We see it only as being a vehicle for struggle. We're turning our revolutionaries who are going to show the people how to go about changing the necessary to gain their liberation and their freedom. And we see black studies as selling a model or setting the example for for for various other departments right at college to take see not only another words black studies should not be isolated from the rest of the

powers of the campus but like it should set the example in terms of showing other various departments how they should function in terms of the students controlling the course content and how the student should not be divided from the faculty members faculty members and students should move together because when we're talking about revolution we mean revolution on our spears and we want to revolutionize the educational system that's going to mean that we can have to have revolutionary students revolutionary faculty members and in fact revolutionary administrators because the administrators are the ones who are who are functioning at the college and they have a responsibility to the students the faculty and to the community because the community acts as the as the place where the. The institutions in other words the community has representatives at the college. You see so like there for the college

campus is nothing but a conglomeration of representatives from various communities and so that is the way it is and that it is best the way that it should be in reality in terms of a college campus campus functioning at this point the black studies department. In terms of enrolment and like not only blacks that is horrible like the whole school of thermal studies the enrolment is very high. Administration of the schools day college was not expecting the enrollment to be as high as it is. The interest to be as great as it is the black the black studies department has has been. Is the administration is trying to sabotage the black studies department and the various other departments which comprise a school of thermo studies. What has been done is that number one. Classrooms are are like our I've been very difficult to

obtain like we have at like there were 12 faculty positions allotted to the Department of black studies. And like at this point we have to since the since the the interest of the students and the and the in Roman of the classes so great we have to hire more instructors to teach the courses because the administration did not think that that the interest in the enrollment would be as high as it is at this point. They have been given as a difficulty in terms of getting classroom assignments. They have been circulating rumors to the effect that members of the black studies department would be moved against in terms of moving against members of the black studies department. There have been rumors of threats of violence. There have been rumors of the fact that blacks that is the problem will lose accreditation due to the fact that students are involved in the

decision making process in terms of in terms of the close relationship between the students and the faculty members. Also there have been spies sin into the black studies department. There have been black ppl black pigs sent into the black studies classes armed with guns to intimidate the students as well as to take back information to a higher power. Chief Cahill into my FEEL SO leader also. There have been agents and provocateurs that into the classroom to cause a disruption in terms of asking silly questions in terms of trying to usurp the whole. Most of the class. And so like they're there and have been various you know undermining plans initiated by the

board of trustees as well as the administration to destroy the black that is department. We have informed students of this fact and they are on guard all the time to do to be ready for any type of foolishness or sabotage you know to go on in the black studies or on guard to watch concerts to to to be watchful of vigilant against that particular kind of action against not only the blacks that is the problem but the whole school of third world studies. The black studies department has had problems in terms of receiving. The necessary supplies and the necessary secretarial positions that are needed to carry on a full accredited Department. There has been problems in terms of communicating with

the administration to get them to to act in terms of doing the necessary paperwork that is that is necessary in order to achieve the the the the the things in which we need to carry out our work in the black studies department. This is not only the blacks that is the problem Bill Like I said before to the whole school of there was studies that they do not want to see the the black studies department take on a revolutionary posture because what that means is that that will be acting as a subversive type of a type of a department. You see within the educational framework some schools they know this they know this themselves because they college has the most probably the most politically aware students in the country. They know that the students understand the difference between visible power and real power

and they know that the students are are moving to serve the needs and desires of the people and not just establish some. Mystic idea of student power they know that we want to really have power to the people when they know that we're moving to gain just that through our actions so therefore they do not want to see the black that is department in the hands of the people. They want the black studies department the whole school of verbal studies to be in the hands of the race's administrators and of the board of trustees and that in the hands of the people. Do you think do you think it's going to be a lot of action on campus this year and some of these issues. I think that like in terms of action there will always be struggle going on in terms of school State College and there should be because as long as racism is continuing as long as far as the black community is being terrorized as long as as as the working class community

is being is being exploited. As long as there is as there is fascism throughout this country there will definitely be action in services because the college campus as well as car as well as activities on college campuses throughout the country. That does not necessarily mean that there will be another strike. You see counterrevolutionary groups such as P L. Other groups which call themselves revolutionary groups but who are not who do not have the interest of the people at heart are spreading rumors. The pigs. These are school police department as well as the Associated Students which is now in the hands of of a reactionary click are like spreading these rumors and they want to do like instill fear into the into the minds of the young students and to create confusion so that they can move against the

Third World Liberation Front. The Black Student Union our central committee and to isolate us and to destroy us so that they can turn some schools their college campus into a into a much more police state than what it is at this time. I was on campus and about two weeks ago and I read something about how the black students are thinking of beginning a strike and was surveying all the student opinion to find out where they have enough support. You're saying that this is this is a rumor which was designed to designed to make people like me just walk on campus to you know feel like. Like the school is going to be ruined by the blacks the Black Students Union. That's right as a matter of fact it's going to they're trying to create confusion you see so that like they're trying to get us to to make a premature move you see and like we see ourselves as being revolutionaries and we will determine the battle grounds you see we will determine when we will fight.

We will not be put in a position where as we were forced out and have to engage in battle at a time when our forces are not together and our chances are of like having any type of political victory is possible. What kind of organizing is going on on campus right now. For instance how are you trying to talk to the new freshman class. What do the fact that we have a black studies department services because they college This means that like we have the opportunity to like really get next to and like. Have dialogue as well as to receive a response from the various black student services because they college not only in the black studies courses but also throughout the in the college as a whole because so many of the of the of the white students supported the strike and are also very much interested and and

educating students to the fact that what the struggle was about last semester and what is happening now are we are educating students to go to the strike. Educating the students to the fact that they need to participate in the black studies department in an 18 that to function and it's a choice will depart in the tutorial program in the community. To to to to support the recall because the recalling of the Associated Student Government because it has hired how was. Group that is now in office educating the people to the fact that that college community is not a voice from the from from the community and that students should be actively involved in community organizations and we're trying to to to move to get students to understand that they have a responsibility to not

only themselves black students but also to the black community and really begin to like change their whole orientation toward toward that school and toward society. And we are like you know using all types of means to communicate with the students. We're trying to develop a face to face relationship with the students so that the student do not feel as though they're being used or that they are being controlled you see. But they're we're trying to educate students to understand like the power should be in their hands since they are the students. They are the people who attend that college they are the people who make up that student body you see and make up that community along with the faculty members and administration. And so therefore they should have some power in their hands. You see we're trying to educate educate them around those issues you know organize around with those issues also.

And I like to say that we want to witter the power back into the hands of the people and have the wealth of this country redistributed to all the masses of the people to make the institutions serve the needs and desires of of not the ruling class but to the common people of this country to destroy racism to erect a society that will be moving toward developing a humanistic viewpoint and to destroy all those who want to want to perpetuate wars who want to perpetuate exploitation and who want to pollute the air who want to pollute the world with with their madness and to make this a society in which we can call a a a people's world a world where as the people will be able to live the people will be able to benefit from

the best that humanity has to offer. So let's say all power to the people and seize the time and to move for revolution throughout the world and to establish a people's government right on.