Huey Newton : August 11, 1970

The following program is copyrighted by the Pacifica Foundation and the Black Panther Party. I'm in the studio with UEP Newton. We have not had anything but your voice here before. And now we have you. You've been inside for 33 months. When you when the n it was rather a different world for black and white people than it is now. And you have come out to make your contribution to both the black and the white world. And I think that the way we better arrange this particular talk is to go first into some of the very immediate things which. You find yourself facing and then perhaps return to some of the more basic things that you would like to share with the

audience. One of the events which has happened within the last six days since you've been out is the very tragic situation in Marin County and its effect on the Soledad Brothers case. It is my understanding that the Panthers are going to offer their support and perhaps you would like to tell us something about the events of the next few days regarding that specific thing. We won't only offer our support the Black Panther Party will administer the funeral. It will be a revolutionary funeral love. Brother Jonathan Jackson and brother William Christmas and brother McLean has been as body has been shipped to Los Angeles. So the Black Panther Party will administer and give these

revolutionary comrades a revolutionary funeral which they deserve and we're inviting the people to the funeral. We would be very happy if we have that support from the community. It will be encouraging to the family and to the revolution as a whole. Because I feel we feel that the event. That occurred in Marin. It was certainly a colossal event and it has changed the whole relationship between the au Prince and the oppressor. The funeral be held at St. Augustine Church on twenty seventh and West St. this Saturday at 9 o'clock and we're inviting everyone to come. We feel that because of the consciousness of the three comrades who were kill

who were murdered that the event is even more important was more important than what occurred and what the what. Uprising or the even the Detroit uprising which was a sporadic or an organized uprising. It lacked the consciousness and certainly lacked the revolutionary for example. In the movie. Brother Jonathan Jackson in particular brother Jennifer Jackson 17 year 0 who as no had no prison record whatsoever. He acted strictly upon a principle that says that the corrupt race's Lords can make no law. But you press people are bound to

respect. Well it certainly has opened up. This whole this whole soul of that case has opened up a very much more close examination and I think awareness on the part of the whole community of the situations inside the prisons and inside the courtrooms for example I believe it is true that the prosecuting attorney in this case was married to the niece of the judge that I believe is technically illegal. And yet this is the kind of thing which could happen normally and no one would know the difference if it had not been for the. Shooting at the three black men at Soledad and the subsequent murder of the white guard. The conditions in a wing at Soledad would

never have been known in other words. It opens up the whole subject of political prisoners and the conditions inside our prisons and perhaps you would like to comment on that. Yes it's a historically correct as the struggle intensifies as the battle intensifies that the evils of the oppressors are focused upon. And this is why the he time and time again and tries to define the oppressed people and the revolutionaries who are the vanguard of the people's struggle and the people's answers as criminals. The bush was the would like us to believe that that group who looms are criminals. You are the only people who would you use certain methods to liberate themselves. The Blues was the reserves the right to use force. And if anyone else uses force in an attempt as a last resort

to gain his dignity and secure his man who then we're faced with three we're bombarded with the propaganda machine of the of the mass media this Contro that is an institution controlled by the bush was the the solid that brothers are also some very revolutionary brothers they were framed on the execution of a policeman that's it. Shortly after 3 blacks were killed and a near Jessamine center and one white wounded. And this was a planned assassination and there was much evidence and it was common knowledge among the prisoners exactly how the plot went. But this was suppressed and subsequently the prison guard was

given a justifiable homicide. As always. Shortly after this the guard was killed and which was a very revolutionary act. Some patriot some members of the people's revolutionary force certainly do. But three solid dad brothers and a son. They were framed because of a long history of speaking out against the treacherous tactics of the of the prison guards. George Jackson there's been some 10 years in prison on a one to lay. Normally a person would get out and two years or two and a half years on a want to lie. But because of his political consciousness they felt him too dangerous to be on the street. Perhaps he went into jail I believe he went to jail for. Excuse me.

Strong arm robbery or some common crime which probably has political overtones with him. So but the prison kept him so long and really had time to really become conscious and this is when they risk started to be afraid to let him out. If he had remained unconscious and loyal to their capitalistic state then he would have certainly been out some years ago. But. I believe you also have very specific views on the subject of capital punishment which is also a part of our prison system. Yes the Black Panther Party plans to send an open letter to the US Supreme Court and the gist of the thrust of the letter would be that first of all we realize that capital punishment is reserved for poor people and people of color and we can this is easily.

We can easily see this. When we examined the death row and we see that only poor whites and blacks and Mexicans and other colored people or black people or people of color reached the reach death row. So it's strictly a class thing and it's high time that someone intervenes between the madman and the people. We view the judicial system as a is not only a corrupt institution that's there to preserve the status and the power of the bush was the are those who own. But also as a group of treacherous murderers. And we. Will serve notice upon the Supreme Court because that something must be done. The death penalty must be outlawed or else there will be a political consequence

will intensify the struggle and and we will stop this slaughter. One of the things that you mentioned at your press conference which has been widely commented on and which you didn't have a chance to go into in any depth was your suggestion that the Panther Party was going to send what you referred to as troops to Vietnam. Yes. That we have committed under close undisclosed number of troops to the revolutionaries People's Republic of Vietnam to the National Liberation Front the provisional government of the South. We offer these troops and in the spirit of revolutionary solidarity and we are awaiting a response. There's been some indication that the

response will be favorable to Vietnamese people and the people of the world in general are very impressed and we feel justified in committing these troops. Even though we realize we have many problems here domestically problems. But we feel that because the oppressor also has domestic problems and he still finds time to meddle in other people's business to slaughter people throughout the world certainly we can find time to aid our friends. Well the question arises What would the status of such people be. I've heard the word. Wouldn't that be treason. My understanding of treason is when a patriot aids the enemy and under the condition of a declared war and

giving aid and comfort to the enemy and the time of war. Yes and the first thing that we view the Vietnamese people and certainly the American people view the Vietnamese people not its enemies but his friends. This was this has been demonstrated through the many peace mobilizations and also that there is a. America has a history of committing of troops are American citizens fighting in foreign armies. Americans fought in the Spanish Civil War against fascist Franco. There are Americans fighting now and Israel and the Israeli army. There were Americans committed to the can the Canadian army and World War 2 and only at that time. The ruling circle saw it in their interest to not to prosecute or not to charge these men with treason. Working from

this we say that it doesn't fall under treason because there is no declared war. Number one the war is illegal. And if they want to charge us with treason we invite them to do so because in order to to prove treason we would first have to put the war on trial to see if the war is a legal war and we would be very happy to do that. We are willing to make any revolutionary sacrifice necessary in order to advance the interests of the people of the world. In other words you're not worried about the idea that the people who went there might lose their citizenship. No of course not because the first thing that we couldn't be worried about. Simple thing such as American citizenship. When the brothers who go there may lose their lives. So our concern is to is to see that the fascist the fascist imperialist

is whipped and driven back to his own country and we have friends everywhere we can hear the imperialists whip crack and we view the developing countries of the world as the country side of the world and as one country is as one developing country becomes free and Vance's the freedom of all of us. Because until we choke the imperialists raw material he gets from the developing country which he rapes and rubs from the developing country. There will be no chance of liberation at home. In other words that we see a definite connection between r and slave meant our exploitation and the exploitation of the Vietnamese people and people of Cambodia Thailand Latin America Asia and Africa. So we we intend now not only to send troops to Vietnam but eventually we are willing to go anywhere in the

world where we have comrades. Well that brings me to the next subject I'd like you to discuss and that is that the revolutionary movement all over the world has changed appreciably in the last three years among the white radicals among the black people among the Third World people in general. I know that during the time that you were inside that you were aware of these things from a factual standpoint that you spent your time studying and preparing yourself. But how does it strike you now as you emerge to find a national even an international movement among young people of all races all over the world. And where do you think it's going to go.

It's definitely going to go to victory and I'm overwhelmed with joy that I'm able to see the unity that is existing between the the among the people who are prayers or prayers not only nationally but internationally. We feel that in order for us here in America to eliminate the evils of the world we must eliminate imperialism and international. Bush was Lee that defines his strength here in Babylon or North America in order to do this the Black Panther Party takes a stand that our party is no longer a revolutionary nationalist party but were revolutionary internationalist revolutionary socialists because we're fighting a international. Bush was the so necessarily we would our tactics and strategies would have to be based upon

internationalism. That doesn't mean that we reject or denounce other countries that are fighting wars of national liberation. Countries such as Vietnam. We feel it has to have a right for self-determination and sheerly independence. And because number one they've never Oprah's other countries. They don't operate on Empire they operate a country. Well America is no longer a country but it's an empire. So therefore we can't even speak in terms of nationalism because nationalism perpetrated in this country as a slave the world this country has no real right any longer to be a nationalist country because it's stolen the wealth from every developing country in the world in order to build a high standard of living here for the ruling circle that is. And because of these evils that this

country must must think in terms of transforming the world and replenishing the world sharing with the developing countries in a friendship way and even being obligated to them obligated through them in a sense that this country has been a pirate and a robber and now. It's only just a fad that this country pays off. And this was the. The party of the Black Panther Party has hooked up with every struggling Liberation Front in the world because only through this unity are we able to defeat such a powerful treacherous enemy. And you do not see it either as a national struggle purely nor do you see it as a racial struggle. If you are like us it's not for this country's concern that the struggle cannot even take a national character.

It must be take an international character because what you have here is is not a nation it's an empire so therefore we can relate to it as something that is not as far as racism is concerned that we realize our racism is rampant in this country and we this is why that in spite of the fact that we're working towards a socialist socialist society. We're not on the Luzhin that this would automatically. Why about racism. It's known in sociology that when a structure changes or physical structure changes our social structure changes. Usually there's a lag between the attitudes of the values call cultural lag and I'm sure this concept would also be true when we receive our Socialist victory will lay the foundation or the structure to change the

attitude. But until that time there will have to use certain precautions in order to protect ourselves from racism and some of these way some ways we were is to ask for some autonomy and our community complete control a matter of fact of our local community the institutions therein. We would like to operate our institutions as collectives or co-ops if you will. Owned by the whole community and supported by the National. And of prizes that will be somewhat. There will be centralize but a public. Excuse me that will be a public institution for instance General Motors Standard Oil and other big monopolies. The 76 companies that control the American economy according to the Johnson

report are still disorders. There are 76 monopolies or are like darkies that control the country. These we would demand that on every level that people of color be represented. But the various communities will place the administrators in just as just as now elections are held to place mayors in and sell for the wealth. There will be no profit. Any longer it would only be a surplus and this surplus from these national enterprise will be distributed in some sort of equal way to the many ethnic minority communities. All of the communities will receive a proportion of the wealth. So we call this proportional rep proportional representation. In a socialist framework if there's any if there's hap if there happens to be any whites living in the in the black community or vice a versa or any Mexicans or Indians or any

ethnic group member who would be a minority living in any of the other ethnic communities then he will have a democratic participation in these institutions. In other words that we will make sure that a foundation will be late to work towards a society that will be essentially human. A culture that will be essentially human and a revolutionary culture and that is a culture of this and that is dynamic and that is in constant change for the. And with the well-being of man and man. Well when you speak. Revolution which means a number of things besides guns. I notice that that does not preclude in your mind things that might be termed reformist in the sense for example of the community

police control bill. You are in favor of people working for that type of reform measure. Yes I believe that that reform must be integrated with Revolution reforms all right reforms are good as long as they don't put up an obstacle to your final revolutionary go. Many times reforms the revolutionary vanguard in mobilizing people against the oppressor and in Berkely know that the Black Panther Party with members of Peace and Freedom Party were to to have the police to centralize. We are on the ballot now. I believe it took some of what in the range of 15000 signatures to get on the battle on the ballot and we made with these and I will ask the community to support this. I would like to ask all

progressive people to so poor through decentralization of the people least in Berkeley. This would be destroyed. The police will be decentralized and the four police departments one for students one for blacks and one for white. This would the local community would erect a board to control the police behavior and to examine it and to examine complaints from the community about the police. This way the police will lose that character of being like a foreign army that is occupying territory who don't live in the territory. But they only are there to insure the interests of the wealthy are the property people in the area. We feel that. That this is a step in the right direction. It certainly is a necessary step but it's not sufficient. And we realize it for what

it is as a step in the right direction because the final victory will come when we're able to decentralize the will of us such institutions as Bank of America and General Motors and then make that well serve the interest of the people and not serve the interests of the profit monger. This will be the final victory of the people. But we must fight each battle if at a time. And while the police are only the agents and the lackeys of the of the bush was the and the the bay owners. We realize that in order for us to fight these big owners we must fight the ordinary local police which is the local foot soldier. Just as the Vietnamese in order to fight American imperialism must fight the ordinary soldier who is only a lackey for the bush was the

and the ruling circle here in America. So and also. That's how students and up fighting certain teachers who support the reactionary and reactionary regents and the governor the running dog Governor Reagan in order to to down Reagan many of much of the time we have to have conflict with Mary there are nary protect is whether teachers local police or the military. We have to deal with that. We know the final victory and the real meaningful victory will be to decentralise the wealth of the of the the ritual presses and the words. What you are saying is that you feel that reformism and revolution can and should go hand in hand in

this society. Yes as long as I or any other society as long as your reform does not is not obstacle it does not put an obstacle in the way of the final goal. There are many forms I could think of if handled in the wrong way would. Would. It would make it impossible or very difficult for you to achieve your revolutionary go. We must make very sure that our reforms are well thought out and we explain to the people on the way. The significance and also the dangers of accepting certain compromises from the oppressor. As long as we don't try to draw up a plan on the peoples here and as long as we take their interests in consideration and give them time even though much of the time they don't claim to be their Titian's of politicians or scholars they don't understand

and we have to take take much sometimes we have to take much time some revolutionaries think too much time to explain to the people but we've the Black Panther Party as found that after taking this time it pays off because we move even faster than we would have if we had attempted to just conclude make conclusions for the people and go ahead without their support and without their help. That brings me to another question. How do you visualise the development of the Black Panther Party there's been a good deal of discussion as to whether or not this was a mass party or whether it was simply going to be an elitist leadership. Focusing on education and so on but not having a mass membership. Well those I don't think those terms that will fit

squarely into either of the of the of the terms that you just given. Because our party is a vanguard party but their strength is based upon the mass support and we are we work directly with the people and many programs we're starting a shoe program where we make shoes when I was in prison. I found that many inmates became very expert many convicts became very expert in making shoes and boot and these shoes are used to shoe the prison population. And also there are so to other government agencies. Of course the prisons only get to set an hour for this. But the point I am attempting to make is that the community many of the people in the community here in the north and the south the children go without shoes in the south and Buford County. There is a tremendous problem of parasites. The people as soon as they're

cleaned up the parasites of God are driven out of their stomachs or they're cured. They pick up parasites again because they don't have shoes and they walk on the ground and pick them up. So we plan to buy with the help of people to lease or buy an old shoe factory and put ex-convicts into the shoe factories. And the kind which we teach people in the community how to make the shoes and shoe works you can be made for about a dollar and a half or two dollars and we plan to not only repair but to make shoes and shoe the children and the adults in the community and the south. So the party is. Vanguard party so therefore we don't expect millions of people to be in membership. But it's not a club or anything like that. And really we have millions of people and because everyone

we are working for the people's interest and everyone who sympathizes and supports and does anything we view him as a member and he's certainly a member of the Oprah's class and therefore necessarily is the backbone of the revolution. I think that this is almost a classical thing. If we if we observe other revolutions in other countries that all of you know in every case that most of the people in the country were not a member in the sense of holding office and the revolutionary band but the revolutionary band was so dependent on the people until they would say that they could not be tracked by the regular army because when they were with the people they were like a fish in the sea. And we must be like that we must the community must support us to the

point that when we are being pursued they will give us aid without asking too many questions because much of the time there's no time for such questions. I would like to back up a little and say something else about the RIN. I had named the three brothers. Who were kill. There's a fourth brother that revolutionary was in the hospital by the name of McGee McGee and that we have him in and that I'm asking the people to support in every way. We also want to make a charge that the revolutionary people are never interested in murder. That it's only the oppressors interested in murder.

And this was demonstrated and ARIN because the revolutionaries did not didn't fire the first shot they were interested and and getting out of the prison. The statement was made that by one of the comrades that I have been in prison so many years too many years that. Remove these chains. I must be set free so help me God. And he addressed the jury and say with this and it was really an explanation to the jury why he had to take certain actions and this is incumbent this is a revolutionary obligation to always explain explain his action to the people and so that they will know and that they were interested in that and taking hostages and they would have released the hostages. They want to freedom. But the police have stated Matthew

the prison guard who stated that he fired first. There is some contradiction because the district attorney has said Thomas's say that he fired the first shot but no one everyone is aware that the revolutionaries did not fire the first shot Jonathan. William Christmas or McLean did not fire the first shot. So that shows that the police the fascist police are responsible for the judge's death and the fascist police are all responsible for showing a disregard for everyone in that courtroom including the jury and I hope that the people see that for what it really is it shows that the oppressor and the fascist police are more interested in apprehending some revolutionaries

more interested in that than are preserving human life and we charge them with that we charge them with being insensitive to the people and that is why that the vanguard party with the help of the people will now intervene in that struggle and intensify our struggle and go on to victory. What do you see as the developing relationship between the black radical movement and the white world. Before I answer that I would like to say one other thing about Marin because I'm very disturbed about what happened in Iran and more than one way that. I recognise not to stare. It's more a feeling that it's hard to express. I recognise what happened

Rand is purely a revolutionary action. I think that that the standard has been set higher that the struggle has been put on a higher level now and that all revolutionaries must recognize that and that one other charge that I would like to make against the corrupt officials here and that is that they haven't shown they claim to be so interested in people democracy and so forth and human life. And they haven't shown the respect. Not nearly as much respect as the corrupt governments of all of Latin America or of your of the way of. Of up or zero These are fascist governments and they have shown more respect for human life than this so-called democracy. When the revolutionaries in those countries took hostages and ordered the government to release

certain political prisoners and prisoners of war then they did that. They did release them in order for a number of occasions and or for the. To preserve life. But this country refuses to do that. So I would like for people to keep that in mind and and take some very necessary steps. Right. I would like to return to the question. About the relationship between the black movement and the white movement in this country and the Chicano Third-World movement in general and how you visualize the proper and developing relationships among those groups. I think we should.

The Black Panther Party takes a position that we must must accept the reality in this country and that is this country is a pluralistic country ethnically speaking and culturally speaking. And the first thing we must recognize that as a fact that there are many cultures here representing many national minorities and that taking this into consideration we will see that each ethnic minority has particular problems that has to be set in and a rather unique way. So this is why we say that in order to to lay the foundation. Or lave or get a base to solve these problems. First we have to transform society and wipe out the the small ruling circle that's not interested in any of the people only their interests and their profit. So after this transformation which will necessarily

be a socialist society we would like all of the ethnic minorities to be represented before the victory. We say that we must have many coalitions with all of groups such as the. The Third World Liberation Front that is now supporting the six and San Francisco S.A.T. de la Russe and who are on trial now on trumped up charges of killing a police officer and we the Black Panther Party also supports them. We have attempted to show our friendship and our concern by supporting all people no matter what their color or ethnic background who are fighting against this common enemy because in the end we realize that that culture

is the thing that shit and hands and make man feel free and also a thing that would give him the power to create and to produce in a creative way. And based upon these two criteria that that we would like to see eventually essentially human culture and then the ideas of proportional representation. Even local boundaries or after Matter fact after this imperialist a country whose regime is ended. We could even think in terms of. The withering away of statehood period that there won't be any need for other countries to be Nations because they won't be threatened by this country and there will just be people who join together in friendship and harmony.

And this is the kind of society we're working for where man will no longer be exploited by man and love will exist among all of the people. Would you say then that it would be impossible to be a true socialist and be a racist. I think it is it's absurd to say that you are socialist and you're also a racist because the Socialists is interested and man and man is a homosapien or of the same species and that once we start making it a division on race then I left the tag in to make divisions on. Many other class breakdowns so. So we want to see an end of the class system and all of the distinctions that will make one group privilege over another. That doesn't necessarily mean that we want an end to ethnic groups.

We think there's a matter of beauty and the many of our ethnic cultures rather like a bouquet. And I think if it's if it's viewed this way that the world would be a much happier place and a more interesting place. And it would be a common a gather and a unity of man. And with that as the minister of information which Cleaver said we would have the essential message a nation. That and when our minister of information say if this he were speaking entirely of race miscegenation but he was speaking of that complex so where man finally reaches a unity with himself and with every other living thing in the universe. And this would be the mingling and the transformation of everything from the prisoner that is within himself from the division and the loneliness and to a whole person and to who

can really be and this is why that we hate the oppressor so much because he seems to to when he strikes as he strikes down the best that I humanity humanity produces when when and how. The brothers were killed and in Marin. Humanity was struck a blow because these were true revolutionaries interested in the people's struggle but yet they were taken away from us. And young Jonathan Jackson. I viewed him as a brother that should have been and probably would have been my successor. But he was taken away from us and we were very unhappy about that. But the people who produce more are leaders and they will be stronger because they will inherit the legacy of Jonathan Jackson the

revolutionary fervor of William Christmas and the courage of McLean. With these combinations that we find new direction and we we find new strains in the future. You mean there's another subject that I would like to have your comments on. It seems to me that both among the minority groups and the white group there's a sort of division among the younger people. Between what. I believe could be called the dropouts the dope culture the just get out of it entirely and the people who are politically conscious. What are you what is your view of how you intend to deal with the other side of the youth culture. I mean I know that many of the younger people are actively involved in the political scene involved in the ideas of the changes which are going on all around us.

On the other hand you do have large numbers of all races of the younger people who have simply opted out. Yes I think that many of the young people now who've quote dropped out or are going through a transitional period. Most of them are upper middle class white. A few blacks but mostly upper middle class ways she was MI students and so for these people are all springs of the blues was the their fathers or their families or members of that class. They were fighting against. I think that is a fair statement to say that the so-called dropout have done a necessary thing as a first step because they are what I call traitors to the bush was. They have left. They are the FULL of

that corrupt ruling circle. They repudiated the the goals of that circle and down there they are there tempting groping for for a place there outside of the the people's movement. But at the same time they are in a twilight zone because they are also outside of the ruling circle. We find that the movement in general finds a fertile in recruiting from this area because after they drop out then they come back in. But this time they come in with a new direction they come in clean because they've denounced everything that the fathers have supported and supported everything that he's denounce. So it's sort of a it's a cleansing process. I think that speaking again of the working together there in the near future not in the near future

at this time. Many of the of the left groups are joining in in to a larger vanguard party that's known as the New World Liberation Front and the Black Panther Party has joined this this liberation group. And as a caucus inside of the liberation group and many other third world liberal liberation groups are also joining in. And the white leftists are joining in. So now we're coming up with the synthesis of all the revolutionary groups that's going to be well into whale into a very sharp cutting instrument in order to advance the people's cause. There are a couple of other minority situations or at least cleavage is one which I would like your comments. There

are many groups of women today. Who are all categorized as women's liberation. And yet again they represent a variety of groups. Only some of whom are politically conscious and there are other groups like the homosexual groups. I would like your thinking on their relationship to what you're talking about. They definitely have a place in the revolutionary movement and Women's Liberation Front the Women's Liberation Front. Some of the groups are politically politically conscious those groups of women who are politically conscious. We would like to unite with them and we would like to also. Have unity with the homosexual groups who are also politically conscious. We've had meetings with the homosexual representatives of the homosexual group and

also the. The woman's liberation front. Now the homosexual group have been oppressed so much and so badly and it was hard to convince them that the Black Panther Party is relating to them. But we see that homosexuals are human beings and they are prayers because of the mentality and the treachery that exists in this country that tries to legislate sexual activity. Most of the laws are laws not to to promote freedom. Which is I believe that when one of the most essential things a man universally strives after whether it's internal freedom or external freedom in other words freedom from compulsion is an obsession. Man is not happy when he feels force. These are the internal things.

When he is obsessed and feels compelled whether through whether through a religious reasons are or backwards values reasons that even if he carries those values that he's unhappy and of course that when we start legislating from the outside there's force on the outside also. And this is on the laws on the law. Saying that adult people can't have any kind of sexual relationship they want to. I don't think that the homosexuals should be harassed and Badger and brutalized because of their desire to have a sexual relationship. That's not popular at this time. So we've we we plan in the future to to make sure that we're we're have solidarity

with all oppressed people. I'd like you to tell us something about the constitutional conference which you're planning and also I think you have some plans which involve the United Nations and Eldridge. Yes. First so speak of our minister of information knowledge cleaver. Who in exile now and I've seen many times people of the news media say that he's in self-exile the government is there that he's unselfish self-exile but I disagree with that that he's and he's was forced to leave the country because the alternative was between. Did with or in prison because approve the foundation of the plot it was already late and or going working in Algiers

and communicating with us and contributing to the movement. He's very much in touch we talked to him just about every other day. And that is that. I'm going to be you in to see about his return that we will go to the United Nations and the United Nations too. To hear his case and to have a trial there to see exactly if the country if this country has a right to try to cleave refused it. We don't feel that they have a right to try to cleaver and surely they don't have a right to put him back in jail without a trial at all. You must remember that Eldridge Cleaver left this country not because he was going to stand trial. He left this country because he was going to be going to be put in prison without or without benefit of a trial. Because of the pressure of the

adult authority under the leadership of Ronald Reagan who didn't like their minister of information very well and Ronald Reagan didn't like the merest Reformation very well because it's clear exposed him to. To the people and to show the people what Ronald Reagan really was and Ronald Reagan can deal with that. He couldn't deal with it at all so he planned it to have that immense Reformation put into prison without a trial. So we're definitely going to do that. Was there some idea plebiscites the United And yeah that and change you know we still feel that that. Blacks should be able to to decide our destiny. We've been open so long until we think that

that it's only our right for the US to to create a plebiscite or to supervise a vote. There will only be participated blacks only participate in and this will be as blacks exactly what they want what we want to do and whether they want to to remain a part of this country. And so for as far as the party is concerned that if. Blacks decided they don't want to even be a part of this country. This is our right. But this doesn't mean that we that we are abandoning the the for the long term goal and our long term goal is to create a world that where nations don't exist at all anyway so taking keeping these things in my that we still feel that we should

thrust any plan upon the people the people see without consulting them. So we're always in the community consulting the people. And that's where we continue to be. What about the constitutional Yancey and the Constitutional Convention they were planning for. Take plays and wash in Washington and that we. The purpose of this convention is to plot a new course for this country. We think that the constitution has now that guaranteed and has not given the freedom to all of the people here in America. So we're asking people to come to this convention in order to plot a new course to write a new

constitution and also to serve notice upon the corrupt officials and evil gentry that we will no longer tolerate the way they are exploiting the people and treating the people. We noticed that that something definitely has to be wrong with the Constitution when the fact is that black people are struggling to gain rights that white people gain in 1776 when they fought a war of national liberation a war of independence from. From Great Britain from England and. At that time. White people felt that they didn't want to be. They don't didn't want to be taxed without being represented. Taxation without representation they could no longer tolerate. They want to self-determination. So they fall one of the greatest

countries in the world and defeated it. But we must realize that that revolution that that war was not a revolutionary war it was a national war of liberation. But the capitalistic tendency the capitalistic characteristics of this country of America the United States then remain and the property class benefited by the revolution more than any by the war more than anyone else by the national war of liberation. At that time we blacks were slaves. We were slaves before the national war of liberation of the United States and we were slaves after that. For some for until 18 or 65 matter a fact. So we're still the civil rights movement with the Black Panther Party views the

civil rights movement as simply a continuation of the national war of liberation that whites won in 1776. But as I said before this was a war just as the civil rights movement has always been led by the bush was the. And even though it is not only right it's necessary for us to gain those civil rights. We realize that that those by the gaming those right will not free us now. It will not even give us the amount of freedom that whites got in 1776 simply because the dialectics of change the social forces of change. So therefore getting it would take a new. It would take new rights. It would take new. Things to

guarantee our freedom. For instance in 1776. What exists in this country was what we call democratic capitalism. The country was in the economy of the country was in with two or that one small land owner could compete against each other. There was much Lenin occupy there were many things they were not own and we did not have the industrialization and technological development that exist today. So many people were relatively free to engage in free enterprise or free competition. After even though blacks were never able to even engage in this if we had been and been able to engage in that if we had our rights then then the character of America today would be

a proportional representation among the oppressed people. Now there's a disproportional representation of blacks and people of color in the press classes. And this is because of the fact of racism but if the history had been different if we had gotten a 40 acre in the MMU the status as a Stevens thought was so important and which I think was important he would have not the kind of racial characteristic going along with also a class oppression. In other words in America we have a we're not only oppressed as a class as a poor class of people we were oppressed as a kid. And that's because of our racial heritage. So this makes the oppression in general even among the and the small that exists. So. But because we didn't get the 40 acres and the two mews we remain like a colonized people you say. And even though it's not classical colonialism because in classical colonialism.

The peace of the colonized people are the majority and the oppressor is the minority in a foreign country. America brought her Colonie home and we're that colony. Now how do we straighten all of this out that I say that at one time that capitalism was even somewhat progressive when it was a Democratic stage as capitalism but it went from democratic capitalism to monopolistic capitalism. And this meant that a few landowners after working black slaves after exploiting black slaves and the land ended up with most of the bounty. And this is the this is the people that the President Johnson spoke of and it is a reporter a civil disorder. This is these are the people that composed the 76 companies a Rockefeller Ford and so forth because everything is own now. The

concept of black capitalism makes very little sense because it would. It would say it will encourage blacks to invest and they and the defunct economy is defunct in this country in the respect that there is no room for further national development. The ruling circle is not even investing their profits into this country any longer. And this is why they move from Nation hoot to imperialism or empire imperialism because they invest their profits in foreign countries and they make factories there. They pay very low salaries to the to the people they deplete the country the foreign country the developing country of his riches and bring them back home to support the over expanded and depleted land that are now America so. We say that black capitalism doesn't make any sense and the only way that we can share the wealth that we

produce because the workers produce so well is to have a proportional representation in the socialist framework. That is to explore create and to nationalize these private industries and administer them in a public fashion so that each man will get a part of what used to be profit. It would only be a surplus so be turned in to consumer goods and distributed and some equal way and also did this. It would just strengthen not your local KOA because your local co-op will be coordinated with the national industry which will be public. But this is so that we don't get that top heavy kind of government that we will have. A people's government and a democracy. I notice everything that you have said that it appears to me that your concept of socialism is not

a doctrinaire one. The charge that you are all communists or that you are all Maoists. It seems to me that what you say adds up to the fact that you are approaching the idea of socialism from a pragmatic standpoint in the view of this situation racially economically and in its world position. Would that be correct and could it. Yes but not not only that I think that. It's not so much as being doctrinaire we're not doctrinaire because we're more interested and really dealing with the social forces then. And that hearing to some some local Marx Lenin this principle which might not be Marxist Leninist after all because Marx and save himself say the one thing that I'm not I'm not of Marx's and what he meant that he was going to follow any doctrinaire thing he was going to use

the science of materialism in a creepy fashion. And that makes the true Marxist Leninist you say. But what what is really happening is that we've taken we we've carried Marxism-Leninism to a higher level. We say that the party of the Black Panther Party of the greatest Marxist Leninist of all times. And we're not bragging when we say that but we realize that history has bestowed upon us an obligation and that is to to take the science and take the philosophy of Marx to its final to its final. Go. And that is to to create a side a world that has an absence of State to it and this is why in the first of my speech or my talk with you I emphasize the fact that we're no longer revolutionary nationalists that we don't

believe. And what would come only call nationhood for America. You see. We believe that that America now must subscribe to strict internationalism because while these other revolutionary countries are and who are Marxist Leninists are revolutionary nationalists in the in the respect that they are fighting for autonomy and they're fighting for independence and nationhood. We support that because they have to do that in order to defend themselves against the International Blues was the the international aggressor. We realize that if America didn't support every fascist government in the world that government couldn't exist and the people would win their revolution immediately. So what I'm saying is that while it might sound in contradiction it's only paradoxical that we when I say that blacks

we should ask the black people exactly what direction we want to go. We also are going to explain some things to them and that is that whichever way we go that white America white America cannot cannot can no longer remain a nation and not taking this under consideration. I'm saying that once America stop relating to this. This is nationalism. It won't be necessary for any other country in the world to relate to nationalism. So taking the developing these kind of concepts we think that we've taken Marxist-Leninism to even a higher level than it's ever been in our history because history has not yet created the communist world it's only created the socialist world. That is a is also based upon state is our state. So the next stage would be the communist world where statehood no longer exists and we would take the banner of the people struggle in the

black and the Red Banner to the to the final victory. Is there anything else you would like to say to us. I would like to say power to the people because without the people there will be no victory and the people are responsible for. For historical developments and they're responsible for the course of history takes you no matter what kind of weapon the oppressor has that we know that when a new weapon doesn't win the war but the people always win and the people are the real heroes. And I without this knowledge we don't have even the rudiment Terry knowledge. Thank you very much. The preceding program is copyrighted by the Pacifica Foundation. And the Black Panther Party.