An interview with Huey Newton

Will you know I don't want to be in any sense of the word. I would like to give you the opportunity to say whatever you have to say. Your trial I believe is. Slated to start on the 10th. And once the trial has started the whole relationship between. You and the outside world will in some way change. And what I would like you to do is use this as an opportunity if you wish. To. Make a false statement. If you wanted to divide it between things that you dressing to the black community. And things you'd like to address to the white community. Then that's alright. Too. I don't think there could be air war over the. Complete conversation and making directing the. Statements of the black community and then direct both of them Saturday. Fine. Fine.

Well I expect that you had enough people ask you about your personal involvement in how it all got started and so I won I didn't want to go into any more of that. Well I think that most people are aware of the star of a pan. But I could explain recapitulate because many people have a row now view by organization that the Black Panther Party is a political party and we have a little platform and definitely a political way. That. The aims and goals the liberation of the black community. Freedom of the black community sure top political power of black people which we don't have to this point. And we feel a bit like politics been mishandled for many

years. Matter of fact it's been mishandled ever ever since black people started to engage in the so-called American politics. After you manage a proclamation and black reconstruction black people have been misled before. Definition of political power. That during our blood reconstruction many black people were led to believe that to have a political representative in office would mean also political power. The Black Panther Party as this is not necessarily so that the only way one can have political powers to have a strong base behind him and the people who are the backbone of this power. But during black reconstruction where were some black Representatives and

Congress. Representatives from states where most black people were they were engaging in a politics that was actually somewhat absurd because they were representing the people without power. And to explain this we have to examine the nature of the black people the black masses situation in the south after Emancipation Proclamation. Black people offer. Land and equipment so that they could provide for themselves and of course this land was never given. And anything. All we were given was these political representatives that were supposed to see rights and freedom for black people. These political representatives were not effective for the simple reason that

no one had to listen to them in the political arena. They were operating and because they were they could not for a political consequence after he explained to the sands of the people. There was nothing more than simply if there were demands were not met because the people didn't have control of the land or the means of production at a time. Some of the people who were the other people the white people in the political arena had a power behind them because they owned land they owned to more production and not their bag. They control the land and not these white politicians when they didn't get what they wanted or the people in get what they want whom they represented. Then the people would act in such a fashion to deliver a consequence to the general society and they would do this by not cooperating and say some industrial area at a time some. Feudal area a farm

area farmers they didn't feel that they were treated fairly. They simply wouldn't sell their goods on the open market and they would step stratigraphy you know and try to convince other people they should be heard. Black people were unable to do this so they were left at a level of a bigger political representative that was supposed to represent us would demand certain rights and after he did perceive it that people are forced because they demand the two to deliver this consequence. Well this went on for sometime and finally the very political representative was ousted out of office and after he was ousted out of office a Black people in general remained then primarily the same position they were they were in before he went into office. And they even quit voting largely trannie

they were disillusioned with the political arena completely and rightfully so because well black intellectuals at the time and their representatives many of them were very equipped they had been educated in Canada and so forth they were more educated white people. So the people were disillusioned masses of people were disillusioned with the political arena completely matter of fact they had some reservations about it in the first place. Black intellectuals and politicians were going around saying that we would get freedom through the vote. People were chanting in the days of Jubilee why have 40 acres and two days of jubilee and I sort of people seem to always recognise where the real powers are located it was the black bourgeoisie here black and lecturer who were just after their

after black people were put out of the political arena. We were in pretty near the same position as we were even before slavery matter in some instances even worse because we were totally unemployed and when word slaves were taken care of you can say taking care that we did get some. We did have a shack to sleep in. But after people white people didn't need us anymore we don't add any place to go. So black people started to some started to come north to the promised land but to skip a period of time now I would like to make a correlation between current happenings in U.S. history never plays itself over again repeats itself but there are many similarities in things that happened in the past and the present. And like to point out that Adam Clayton Powell being

off in New York. The people of Harlem because they have very little control. Matter of fact no control over any power area and the power of power can be really divided. You can analyze them. Couple of areas you have economical power our industrial power and you have feudal power and control of land. And military power. According to John Hope Franklin The reason black reconstruction failed was because of a lack of economical and military power. Matter of fact I'm sure that the Civil War Abraham Lincoln was very much afraid that if he didn't disarm black people that we would engage in warfare to really gain our attempt to gain access so we were disarmed so it even at the present time economical power

power and military power. So we're left in a position of beggars in the political arena. Even up to this time I was kicked out of Congress. Black people could do little more than voice an opinion about it. And. If we were in control of economic power or even military power we could engage stand caused a political consequence for the general power structure. But because we've never had this power there's been little progress of course towards freedom. And this time the Black Panther Party is as real lack the nature of power and we say that power is the ability to define phenomena and then they can act in a desired manner. The Black Panther Party has attempted to erect a power base

by educating the black community to what real powers about. And as we analyze it it is impossible for us to compete with the enterprisers and the people who control the industry simply because these people again there are tremendous power through exploiting us in the first place. Slave labor with a cause of action was the creation of the industrial last north. The land that we were supposed to get I understand standing or some other big monopolies receive that land and of course some whites also. She erred in stealing this land from black people so the Black Panther Party said we can't compete with the people who slave to gain their wealth not a canonically. And of course no one is going to give us any less. And so we're left in a situation of having

but one choice and that choice is that we are going to gain political power back any means necessary. And when we really boil it down we see that we only have a few means and maybe there's really no alternative the black community will have to arm itself in a political fashion and not be a political threat to the power structure. So we have the power of potentially being destructive to this country. The trend is that when black people. Or black people. Exploited to such an extent that we can't stand anymore you see a physical reaction. And this is in keeping with Chairman Mao's statement that political power grows from the barrel. Many people think this is ridiculous but no one has presented any program to compete with this capitalistic power structure have been successful in trying to convince them at a conference table

that black people should gain freedom equality and justice. Matter of fact that I've been to a time when black people started to take to the street and destroy property and destroy means of production that were focused on now and we're hurt and we're hurt simply because this country only understands power in the whole country was erected a bond or so White people who are controlled and over there well what power's about. We say that black people should give some consideration to restraint. We have laid that if it were developed then we could negotiate because concessions would be made when white America sees that black people will no longer. Take no for an answer. People are always very concerned especially in America because basically a materialistic country

they're very concerned about keeping their property and the freedom and they're stolen. They see that their very existence freedom of black people and all people matter of fact I'm sure they'll make some concessions. But the program and in fact the program. All black organizations in varying degrees of intensity. It seems to me demanding. A fundamental change in the set up our society. It's always seemed to me that the black community was the only community in this country. Where there was no actual pressure. To produce. Or spearhead at least any revolutionary change. In the in this country. And I see the. Enormous change

in the temper and the type of subject that black people wish to discuss when I first was at the microphone 11 years ago. I got nothing but the nonviolent types of start. Who talked about God and brotherhood and being allowed to sit down a bunch of others right in buses. And I kept wondering how long it would be. Before they would speak in different terms. Now they speak in different terms and it seems to me that what you're asking for is you people are so hung up on this business of somebody who's got a gun and then I'm not really thinking beyond that many of them to the other point. That are in. The program. In the program of the Black Panthers because it's a revolutionary program in every cop in Oakland drop dead tomorrow morning. It wouldn't change the bad housing it wouldn't change the lack of jobs.

It wouldn't change the rats in the poor health services and all these other things. That the ghetto population puts up with. Now you know it seems to me that what you're asking for. Is revolutionary change before you have any change first black people have to gain political power and that I thought it very necessary too to explain what this political power is what stuff is made of. Of course Chris Forrest General structures concern the general structure of exploring the structure starting with the enslavement of black people who for profit gain no power structure and they used it till they didn't need us anymore and the so-called Emancipation Proclamation which really was unemployment. And we remain employed by World War one

who just went by and then he just said the factories began to exploit us and we became skilled and they made very much money off of our skills and just came back and they needed a magazine more and we became domestic servants and janitors again and after a while they didn't even need us for this to any large degree and we became unemployed again. So the very nature of society with the greed for profit to the system where the administrators are the ones who really control the government. Remember not big government administered. The people who are in it are representing and they represent power blocks they represent industrial blocks they represent people on land people own property. Black people have never been and never been in our best interest and we haven't ever gain

anything back to the capitalistic system while kept capitalism in when you think of capitalism you always assume the free enterprise is where one person can compete with the other and he has just as much right to if you work harder you will gain more land and more money and I assume something else the people who have this freedom to compete with each other on the free enterprise theory that black people never engage in free enterprise. When the move was to the way the black people were slaves and they're down when cowboys and Frank dear men were staking out a plan to compete with each other we played no part in this. The only part we played in was to make it possible for them to engage in free enterprise. It is so free enterprise and capitalism is only destructive to black people. And we're demanding a drastic change revolutionary change in

the basic structure and within our platform it is explaining that first to be born in any country and to be born in this country. A man has a right to live and to provide for himself and his family so therefore it's up to the administrators to provide him with work and do with the amount of education he has because that would be a very cruel discrimination as they do today. The man educated he doesn't deserve to live. This is the line of thinking. I guess they operated on the man he was educated he deserved to live and then Yanna lived further you'll see that historically for his living as a man who ends up with him the people who are the victim who made it possible for him to be put in a situation of learning were the people that he exploited for his own personal interests. So the Black Panther Party

demands are for housing decent housing rather fit for human beings to live in and we demand full employment. Cadre system with the institutions and its private property and capitalism or private ownership has proven that they are either they won't give full employment or are there now that they can or they just won't. They're not interested in it but as foreigners what are we going to do about this. People are free. I don't believe that most white Americans are really afraid of who is really solid majority who are afraid of guns and they would demand that their armed forces be disarmed and that their police officer are which is actually the local army be disarming the National Guard be disarmed but they only become afraid when the victim start.

I mean himself. And in a political fashion and it is for Assad to demand that we say and how we go about this if there's a power we're going to develop we are developing. I think it's in keeping with all our common magics people and now we are colonized people we always have been and now we're now we're sort of in a de-centralized colony. Because with the black community spread all over the country. But nevertheless we are treated as other people in foreign countries who are colonized the establishment acts very much like a colonizer and uses for his interest when every wants to and never benefits us. It only makes him richer. But down in these other countries where people have sought to gain their freedom they went about it in a way he so that they could first gain power within a people and they didn't go around talking about trying to persuade the exploder changes ways. Perhaps they did a part time as we as we have done it for a time

but they arm themselves and they. Top of the Explorer and a in they hadn't administered a system that would be beneficial to most of the people. And there was no real contradiction between them. Tearing down and rooting out the system to place a new win Explorer's your statement. If the UP Police were driven out of the community there would be no change that I doubt seriously because of a third thing that has happened in other countries for instance. And Cuba where a few are and with Fidel Castro in jail there went into the hills to change the general structure. And when they drew back Teamsters army out who was aided by America and then bank brand in America. They did change their system so they did get decent housing they're tempting now to get more housing for the people they are creating the educational

system that is beneficial to most of the people. What kept them from nothing but the gun the gun of the reactionary army. That was the puppet government. Actually there by America and supported by America America America supports many puppet government says they support the puppet government of South Vietnam. So I'm inclined to believe that if the mate if the force is taken away he or if the force is matched in through some strategic means we're going to be very difficult for the local know Doherty's to deal with the black community. Then the change will be at hand. But before this time before we develop this power then I will remain at a debating stage because I may disagree with that if they will

simply send in their police force and there are National Guard in there and if they did in Detroit there are eighty second Airborne. So it seems to be a trend in power understands power and without this understanding I don't believe there will be any change in this country. But. That change would bring about revolutionary changes in the structure of mass insanity that could be a chain. It definitely will be for the summer. Why the Black Panther Party have anything to say about it. We realize the defect of the system now and a matter of fact the corruption of the system and we realize that the whole institution and the system must be destroyed and replaced with a new one. And we talk about decent housing and I want a platform Steve that. If the private landlords would not make decent

housing for us then we will have national lab for housing and make decent housing for ourselves and we would then put pressure upon the national government authorities to aid us in this. Do you see any natural and or even necessary connection. Between the black movement the black militant movement and other black movements which in a sense are saying the same thing but perhaps not coupling it quite as. Outspoken a position as yours and the white radical movement. How. Active of. Liberation in general are sane primarily the same thing that we want. And that we're demanded and equal share of the

wealth. But in many cases I think that many of the groups don't understand the problems are the. Dead will head up and operating within this American system our capitalistic system. Many of the groups believe that we can gain freedom within the structure and organize now and it's no need to change the general system. I think this is the basic difference between the Black Panther Party and some other militant group. And I think that's it's a matter of education for this group. The Black Panther Party is also an educational vanguard that we attempting to educate black militants and the black up freedom movement in general and also educate the white revolutionaries of the mother country who many of them are sincere in their quest for our freedom and justice. And many of them don't understand

what will have to do to gain his freedom and nor do they understand the changes they will have to be made in the general structure. So we attempt to to educate these other groups. These other parts of the community so that they will have a clearer picture of WAP will be necessary to gain our freedom and when I say that black people I'm themselves I'm not I don't mean to imply that where I am or not to go out tomorrow into the American structure what we are doing is very similar to when countries with a National Liberation Front countries such as China would like to explain the relation and the relationship that goes on between China and say I'm an America. Number one the Vietnamese people

don't have any illusion defeating America is forced here in America down or kept many many American prisoners and it is not in victory any time that America steps will stop so oppressing them and pulls out of their country. And the dialogue that goes on between China and America Janet says that well we have a term a nuclear blast and we know you have it also. So even you will give some consideration to the people of Vietnam or else you will suffer a political consequence. But nothing happened to sort of a stalemate that Janet doesn't drop any because America realized Janice stray that she had the potential to do this and also Janet realize that America has a potential to cause a great hitter to the people of China. So there is a stalemate but so even

you have to inflict the power for what I call the flexing of power you have to let the power structure know that you have this ability to cause consequence for them. And when black people start letting the power structure know that we do have this ability to deliver a consequence if we don't get our freedom then perhaps there will be some changes made. But the kind. Sporadic and spontaneous violence which has happened and which is expected to happen again is not the kind of self defense and building of a power block that you are basically talking about intact. No I'm talking about something in the land of when to be Timmy's people talk about these people are strictly for self-defense and if it were left up to them they wouldn't fight or think what they are

because they are suffering great hardship having to engage in warfare. But they worked out a strategy where it even though America has a great technology and great advancement and a military weapon they are saying it is because of the strategy that they have developed which is called guerrilla warfare. It's for this country's concern. I've heard many of the governmental fish and corrupt local witch fish officials talk about well that black people are going to attempt a winter saying in essence that black people are an attempt to gain their freedom but for stand they're just going to suffer for it. They seem to think that black people will continue to go out and try to match for ARM that black people are learning now through the education of the Black Panther Party and other. In light revolutionary the way to victory is a long one and it won't happen

with trying to match the technological developments that this country has. As for the spontaneous for all ragheads that the Black Panther Party stands against. And the president taps. And when I say at the present time. Well number one we've observed other people getting their freedom. But in this country we run into a situation that's different than any of these other people. As for Latin American Revolution and their revolution in Southeast Asia the terrain is much different. People are basically undeveloped countries and it's not an urban country. And here we have a problem of engaging with the power structure and the urban situation and we don't really have any blueprint to go back because. It has never happened. Urban country for some tang time

but the French Revolution I think could be considered somewhat of an urban revolution where France and all the bourgeoisie was somewhere Urban right in this country understand the masses of the population was very unorganized with their quest for freedom was so strong and they were you know in the square when I literally tore the foundation out of hand and the ruling class. So as for the future of our revolution I don't know what turn it would take but at the present time I would take bags against the spontaneous rags. And one way this can be done is through publications that party weekly paper the Black Panthers call and teach the correct method

for liberation paper. And we. See there's much need for direction and we tend to give this direction to the revolutionary people of America. I've been told by many people from the south that in wide areas of the south now the people are universally. Armed. And yet there has been no overt attack on the white community. But nevertheless. There are boundaries. Which the white authorities no longer attempt to cross and in the meantime the organizations are attempting to work in some way within the structure. A spontaneous riot for example that might be perceptive by you know anything whatever. In Detroit in Oakland in Harlem.

Might in fact at this stage give the police and the authorities the opening that they are waiting for. And at this stage perhaps the the strength. Of the of the militant aspect of the black movement. Could be wiped out. I doubt very seriously whether a black freedom can be wiped out to do it she would have to wipe out 30 million black people are more so as foreigners their leaders leaders come and unfortunately leaders go leaders are fascinated and murdered. But yet the black people march on and as far as afeared of being wiped out we have no fear whatsoever of being wiped out by the power structure because we realize that as the saying goes you can kill the dreamer but not to drain. And so we feel that the

teachings will go on and if people would identify with the party's leadership this is what we asked for him and still owe him our project. A philosophy that is acceptable to the people. Then we will serve that purpose. As for the police waiting for a chance to come into the black community they have a chance in Troy then that they did just that. They are slaughtering people and even then here in Newark and they've come in they've slaughtered people and by them slaughtering people. The witch was very unfortunate but they raise the consciousness of many people and people realise what danger if they are named in many cases. If there was a positive way for the people who Sebag the slaughter of badly armed

forces and what it did it top promoted consciousness to the conscience of the people and also would talk to him. It was sort of a dress rehearsal of top them of nothing more what matters to be done what not to do and that is to go in the streets in a very organized fashion and be sitting ducks for the military to shoot them down. And I think that everyone will agree that that would happen in Detroit it was much more sophisticated. As for Mars maneuvers on the People's Park then what happened and what's in Detroit. To try to learn from what. And that's one of the reasons that the Black Panther Party activists. We realize that the black people are either illiterate or semi-literate the masses of us and that we don't read very much even though certain tactics are laid down in literature.

But because we're not a reading people that don't we don't observe when we do observe activity and we are educated Baghdad mistakes and every time that this rebellion there are things learned by the black community in general and I think that this is not only true of this country it's true of every other country where a resistance and even a year or a successful revolution occurred one of the reasons that you have a small group of people like 12 men in Cuba who went to the most well man I'm sure they realized that they could now topple the corrupt government of Cuba. But they also realize that the people were illiterate. They were not readers but at the same time the people base were activists and they identified with successful action after the Black Panther Party program.

It is a program that can be instituted immediately with what we just finished talking about with minor reforms this country is not even to appear to give minor reforms the Black Panther program can be interpreted on a level where it's simply a reform program. And for instance we demand that the police that acts as an occupying army in our community withdraw and the community be able to set up a digital structure and also a police structures so that we will have people guarding our community. We have respect and esteem for the. Black community. We demand it. If we're going to have police and community that they live in our community we suffer from a. Fair trials.

Whenever we're brought to trial we're trad not members of our peer group as the Constitution gives us are a trad by an all white middle class jury. Sometimes one black middle class person in the jury who doesn't understand the community even if we demand that we have a core structure this control Barrant community and I these are are some little faint small reforms that the power structure are unwilling to give. But within our platform and I say that it can be interpreted level we realize that the reforms won't give liberation but in the platform and the 10 points when we believe then we express. The desire for a complete change of structure and we point out the oppressed the same Lee and Nate pressie thing in the structure

as it exists. We make a point that we want all black prisoners released from the many jails and prisons. This is this seems very radical but in fact we realized that about. Ninety nine percent. I think I'll be saying it's a hundred percent of the black prisoners have received a fair trial and that the Constitution of the United States already gives us a right to have it and the power structure doesn't even follow its own constitution. So this is why we can expect really little from the power structure when the power structure doesn't even live up to things their promises and gives to the rest of the citizens and the country. So while black people are slowly. Up until this point they were slowly now they're rapidly realizing the shortcomings of the structure and they are going about to make a

change and it's happening now from the grassroots level top people paid to evacuate attempting to divide the mid-seventies. Into two separate categories to talk about the peace movement the nonviolent movement and then they talk about the crazy radical black militants You seem to think of their tactics they're being used and I disagree with this. I think that all of the things that have been gained very little that has been gained through the backing of the peace movement has only been gained because there was a link for worst behind them and of course at the negotiating table when these nonviolent demonstrators. Go down to the power structure. They're not complete. They see that

there's an wrist and that these people who are participating or behind them they look at the power structure looks over and over and they see destruction by hand. They see the masses of the people who are prepared to go up in arms. Many people in the so-called nonviolent movement they don't realize what the power structure seen when one looks over their shoulder and maybe they don't see it because after all they have their backs to the masses and the power structure. They're facing the massive bank facing the night ballot person only he's seen more than a not bad person seem the same. If the things that King talked about it they're not gain then it's someone to Hank Cain who happens to be a literate and educated and. Who understands only one program

and that's a program of physical force. And these are the people that we represent. And yet you are using every method which is open to you. I presume that that's the reason why you have been gauging in fact in electoral politics as exemplified by the coalition with Peace and Freedom Party. The black militants have and most of them haven't ever divorce. They've understood that the apparently two movements have been as we see it is always you know we've had been one and this one now. But what has happened is that only those people that the power structure was we're looking at are very afraid and become somewhat articulate and they now can not only deliver the force they also can express their sadness and I

think that Malcolm makes. Point to blabber well when he referred to Martin Luther King and later just before us assassination where he was attempting to unify the complete black movement and he realize that King wasn't asking really for anything different. He was asking for. The only difference was that he realized that Malcolm X really laggards that power structure moment chain twentysomething force was even even polluted or force which threatened to be inflicted if black people think what they want. So at this point the the black militants are now voicing and articulating the grievance of the grassroots of the community who they happen to be a part of in the path of a nonviolent movement always led by middle class blacks. Who.

Were interested in a black middle class problem up until the later days of the King. You could see a Mormon church that Martin Luther King was making with the black militant because then he was he started I believe he started to realize where the real strength was and the real strength was and the political power they were having the political powers and the grassroots of the community who don't believe in negotiating and the need representatives to negotiate for them. As far as articulate a program related to saggers but they are the activists and they are the people who cause all change and they're the makers of world history. They've always been. You know that they don't you have any appreciable hostility.

But Bush was seen. That's one of the things which is frequently sad is that. There are many frightened black people who have got jobs and so on do you feel that they in fact identify with your program even if they don't do so openly or that there is a genuine cleavage within the black community if there is going in the white community between those people who. Approve the system and those people who disapprove of the system. As it is for the black bourgeoisie is concerned that the first thing we have to realize is they only represent about 2 percent of all black people in the country. Most black people are in the black lower class. And that

sometimes the black middle class see their interests as a little different than the interests of most black people. Of course some of them are have a very good job a very high income and are in their privileged position blag. And exploited and discriminated against but yet here their opposition is somewhat privileged. When you attempt to correlate it are related to the general mass of black people and I think that that they are afraid of their position many times because they know who they control and that's the white power structure. So while some of the demands that we make that some member of the black bourgeoisie we speak against even now in the long run there will be beneficial to them because a change will occur whether they like or not because they don't

represent the Han majority of people black people but I think the black was was he can and can't be related to the historical privileged position of the house Negro. Even though were enslaved that the house Negro house servant received little better treatment than the negroes that were to be here. And now are black people that worked in the field and they enter some tantrum a little different because they were afraid that they too might be put out to be on it. They didn't go along with the program of the housemaster who was they white people were all in the house. Sometimes when the black people would have time to make changes or bang the master's house down it would be snatched out bad manners negro. This didn't happen in our case in some case the house Negro

made certain potions to poison the master and I think that this is true even today there's so much by people in the black bourgeoisie realize that if they aren't slaves as we are and they're attempting to put poison into the system. Generally speaking the blind which was the one hand to be put into land battling masses of black people and the black bourgeoisie only exists in his privileged position because of the efforts and the suffering black people we have now we have what you call universal tokenism where black people can. If you if you are privileged enough to get an education that is providing that your family have a certain economical status to start with your you can get out of college and even get a match between your promise that you can get any job open

practically you can even get to high ranking job and private businesses. This is to me to see the masses of black people who say look at this man that he's black and that he has an education to get this job. And now you can do the same thing so you should stop pressing so hard upon a sin you shouldn't cause a revote because it's your own phone that you don't have the education and you could have it and we don't really discriminate because we have a black man here and. Black people have been disillusioned by this tactic but now we see them just employing one or two black people doesn't mean that all black people if they receive education in pay and income have now or have an income high enough and then have an education they can have this supposition instead of a power structure that they realized the power structure and able to employ all its people

it's a matter of fact against the case against the whole logic of the whole system of system and that that many want to exploit it then it becomes threatened from within from the people working because they see that they don't have control and then they just demand higher demand or to get an equal share the wealth. In other words if they see that where they're making 100 hours a week that the owners are making fountain dollars a week yet they're doing all the work they're produced and work for these private owners. Black people realize that the first thing now and the first thing is not to get an education because. Poor black people aren't they're too concerned about just not irking out. Lead me to do each day to clothe themselves to to pay the money I have the leisure time to get an education.

So the first thing is not a cage the first thing is full employment with the highest high standard. So then we can afford to educate our children and we will have the leisure to end our tour in certain academic pursuits so that we become very cultivated. So the first thing is first things first is awful employment and many people that buy booze was the. Maybe they are perceived that are black people who can hardly eat each day can sacrifice a member of the family to go to school. I think this is a somewhat absurd conclusion to reach that the first pain is a strain not the economical system. How many of those programs which are suggested. By people in the white community. I things which might. Help a few

individuals. I gather that you would prefer the interested members of the white community. To address themselves. To the basic. Structure. Rather than to try to. Improve conditions slightly by various types of reform. That kind of thing I think is something that many people are interested in trying to do and with good will. But it doesn't seem to me that what you say. Adds up to being that that would be what would be really acceptable in other words you can go into the ghetto and you can open a nursery or you can get a better medical clinic or you can do some of these things. These are things that I think many people in the white community

would be happy to try to do something about. And that there are probably people in the black community who might welcome this but this is not really what you're talking about. Or do you think that the two things can work together do you think that in the effort. To try to improve the surface manifestations of our society that people learn. Something which would lead them. To agree with your point of view I think that black people welcome any solution short term solution that will ease the burden and the Black Panther Party more or less attempts to interpret the designer of the community and then organize against their own desires in some systematic bashing so that we could set up an administration to give them what they want. Now the

Black Panther Party welcomes any change in the community for instance if someone interesting person wanted to give money to the black community so that we can sit have day nurseries hospitals and so forth we welcome this effort because it wouldn't even be in a counter-revolutionary fashion as it is in some other country that I can imagine that with many progressive or revolutionary people would speak against this for the separation it tends to. To give the people the illusion that they can gain freedom through the short term. The reforms in this country black people are so first treated like people have been enslaved so long and no one can give them and no one can pay them off or with a shorter form to satisfy us. This one of the cages in a poverty program sort of stopped on insurrection. But the poverty problem has not stopped the rebellion and

even though as for the poverty program is concerned that we don't speak directly against a poverty problem we educate the community and show them where the problem of poverty program would not or would not be liberated preprograming just when it is it is a problem for poverty and a program to perpetuate proper poverty even though a few people a handful of people in the community are not helping people who don't need the help or getting the most help and these are the people who are highly educated in getting their incomes to large incomes from poverty programs. So I'm for the black community is concerned it would stifle liberation move for some interested people who happen to be naive to come into the community and to give monies far far little reforms. A few of our people will be helped but the mass about people will not be

seen that that is the answer to the problem the answer is more basic than that the answer is if that is a complete change because we know that these little reforms won't give full employment. We know that these reforms will know that many decent housing for all of our people and that because it won't make the Sonand for all our people in the revolution will go on. If you did make decent housing full employment justice in the courts then of course it would be reformed they don't be a revolutionary thing and we would welcome it wholeheartedly because it would not only save many white people from destruction it will say many black people in this community. There has been a great deal of attention focused on this whole situation. Partly because of your case partly because in the case of each Cleaver case.

I personally. Have had. A sort of. Hope. I can't get it more than. That. This area. Is more aware. And has become increasingly aware of down through the years particularly young people in the community. Beginning with the cry of the FSM. The draft resistance movement. All sorts of. Growth which has taken place. In this community. I'm told by people who visit this part of the world from other parts of the United States that there is a perceptible difference in the whole political climate. Of this area. Right now. There are white people. Not only the coalition with the Peace and Freedom Party which developed at their conference but. An organized white people.

Who are asking. And meeting at I think. What they can do. Do you feel that there is a possibility. That in this area at least. We might be able to bring about some of the basic changes. Which would be necessary to have a civilized community and that it could possibly be done through political and organizational and educational money and. I mean what is the wall of the white prison in this community. Who genuinely wishes to align themselves with the struggle for black liberation in the sense of that word. In the first place I would like to start again and make something quite clear here because people refuse to accept it as a truth. I think it is very true.

The first thing of let's get one when politics is about a game nation is the politics of war without bloodshed and wars politics will pledge good even apart exam particular to its particular characteristics better peaceful in nature when these characteristics are exhausted and the people who are demanding don't get what they want in politics is continue and it usually ends up into a physical conflict which is called War and which is a very political action. People are still trying to achieve their liberation freedom and justice somewhere. I make no division between not the politics of war and the poppy other characteristics of politics. I think at this point that the black people are few hundred years exhausted of peaceful means and I think that we've gained everything you can possibly gain through peaceful means and that

now it's at a point where white people if they don't think they've exhausted the means to bring about change then they could put pressure upon the controllers of the means of production and government officials to stop their own pressie ways to revolutionize the government or to change the system completely so that people would be in control of the means so we can employ those. And also within this very complicated in this country because. It's my belief that black people have a right to see the union and be a free republic if they so desire. One of them demands and we make it after we gain their power. Which part of our program Matter fact that we will ask for a plebiscite set up by the UN and we'll have a UN risers

to come in to see that black people get a vote and we will vote as a people to see if we want to stay a part of this country and that we've never been treated fairly in this country would never suggest this country and many black people are disillusioned with the position that we had here and that we may want some land of our own. But as for it so what right are white people who are conscious of the she would coming so the this our structure they can be the revolutionary people of the black community and they can also put up pressure upon the government and upon the private owners to change the system. When I say change the system I'm also including that I don't believe that the private owner. Can actually give full employment number one because of a stop

profit motive that he's only going to try to get richer and to pay the people as little as possible. So I think that they have a tremendous job on their hands too to change the basic economical structure of the country and I don't know any time in history where our government has been changed where you have to private profit motive there and suddenly changed to became a humanitarian and instituted a socialist government and that the Black Panther Party advocates the people only the means of production the people owning the housing are controlling the housing through elected administrators. And some of it then these administrators would be at the mercy of the people and he administrated will organize the people well. Such a manner where the people who enjoy a high standard. I don't think that there's ever been a time in

history where this change has come to have come through any peaceful means. Although I would like to see this happen for the first time in this country.