APS School Matters; Middle Schools and Probationary Schools

You Stand by for school matters where we're going to be talking about middle schools and about probationary schools. Good evening and welcome for tuning in. Thank you for tuning in to school matters.

This is October of school matters and we're talking about probationary schools. Schools at the state has labeled with certain levels of some are probationary, some exceed standard, some are in the general standards area. And then later in the show we're going to be talking about middle schools. We have Sam Overshane here from Harrison Middle School and Ellen Moore from Truman Middle School. But for the first half hour we're going to be talking about probationary schools and what we call the superintendent schools. And the person who's the superintendent of the superintendent schools is Diego Gallegos. Welcome Diego. And the person who's the cluster leader principal of the real cluster and a very famous person in our school district. Cecilia Martinez Sanchez. Thank you. Thank you. And I were joined by a wonderful teacher also from Barcelona and Kimberly Woodley. And you teach sixth grade. Let's start with you Kimberly. Why do you teach sixth grade in an elementary school? Well actually it's a pilot program. Why do I teach it? Because I like working with the older students and this is a great opportunity for me to be on the ground floor to implement this program.

In the middle schools, how many elementary schools have sixth grades now? We have three right now and they are the SFA schools, the successful schools I believe. And we have sixth grade and we've expanded. So now we have seventh grade. Wow. That's really terrific. It sounds like Cecilia has been engineering that. How did that come about since you had Barcelona? Actually it was a movement from our community in terms of really wanting continuation of programs that they thought were really successful for their children. They wanted to see the continued academic emphasis in literacy and numeracy. And because of their hard work as a community, which began five years ago, we were able to really get support from you and the district in terms of piloting this program. Easy to support that kind of thing. It's very exciting for us. You can see where it would be. And Diego, you have the most difficult job in the school district because you have 27 schools that are on probation. And you're responsible for getting them off of probation. How are you going to do that?

Dr. Nelson, it's not only a challenge, but it's also very exciting. Let me give you some background. I think it would be helpful to our viewers. In 1997, the New Mexico Legislature passed what is now, what most people call the New Mexico Accountability Act. That act required a number of things. One was the annual report card that our schools must present to the community, and which, by the way, thanks to your leadership, we don't just do it one time a year. It's now on the website and people can access that information all the time, which is really wonderful. And the website number is... Another thing that came out of that Accountability Act was that the state board was required to create a rating system for schools. And that rating system, using a number of factors, what we call the state accountability indicators of student achievement, attendance, dropout rates, school safety, and parent engagement. And what those indicators are, what schools are judged by, and the judgment that comes of that says that the schools are rated either exemplary, meet standards, exceed standards, meet standards, or probationary. And if a school is rated probationary, that means they go on the state accountability list.

And in our district, they become one of the superintendent schools. And the reason we call them superintendent schools is because that is the focus of our administration is to really tackle the issues in these schools, the challenges, and support these schools in a way they've never been supported in this district. And probably nowhere in the state have these schools that are experiencing these kind of challenges, receive the kind of support that we're providing these schools today. Tell me a little bit about the board about this support. What kind of support are we giving these schools? Well, number one, we gave a commitment to them, commitment that we are sticking with them all the way through. And that commitment came at all levels of the organization. U.S. Superintendent made a very strong commitment by focusing on the schools. Our school board made a very strong commitment by providing support to our recommendations around resources. Now the resources we're providing right now for those schools are specifically each one of the 27 schools receives an instructional coach. The principals determine who that person will be. They went through a process of interviewing and selecting a person that they felt could really provide their teachers the kind of support they needed in the classroom. Coach, that's what they're called, coaches. And that's the whole idea. Let's help our teachers to do a better job with our students.

The other thing we did was to provide each of these schools additional resources for professional development. This year, those 27 schools receive $49,000 that they've not received in the past. That's on top of the money they've received. In addition, our middle schools and our one high school receive $35,000 so that they can implement a research-based reading model at the middle school and high school. No longer is reading just something that we expect at the elementary level. We expect it at all levels if a student needs to learn how to read or to strengthen their skills in reading so that they can be successful. We need to teach them that. Sounds like you're pumped. I am pumped. I went to one of those schools, true of those schools, actually, as a student. I later taught in one of those schools. Later during my term on the Albuquerque School Board, I represented most of these schools as a school board member. And then I've been responsible for them as a special education coordinator and today is a system superintendent. So, yes, I'm pumped. This is something that I've dreamed about, this kind of support for these schools. And you're passionate. I don't know if everybody knows your background.

And I mean, your family's been in this community for... Since the 1600, something's the 1600s. And during the 60s, you were the kind of person who would do what? Well, I was not the only one that was a certain principle to my left, was also involved in looking at issues around discrimination issues. Very actively involved at the University of New Mexico and helping develop the Chicano Studies program. We have been working on civil rights issues all our professional lives and our adult lives. It just seems to me it's such a continuum in your career. I mean, it's been a passion for you to help people who have been discriminated against and treated poorly. By being denied access to high quality education. And that denies them access to a whole lot of things in life. It certainly does. You know, my parents have always been very supportive of me. And the reason I have this passion is because it came from them. And they always said to me, you know, school is what will make the difference. Education is what will make the difference.

And they're the ones that kept pushing me. You know, you've got to go to school, you've got to get your degrees, et cetera. They continue to be the ones that are supporting me as I finish my doctoral work. So they've been behind me all the way. They're the ones that gave me this passion and continue to give it to me. We do come from our parents, don't we? Yes, we do. You can join this conversation if you'd like. By Dylene, if you're out of the Albuquerque area, 1-866-377-5172. And I believe that you're in the Albuquerque area, 3-777-5172. Actually, you have to call 866 for both numbers. So call 866 first. Kimberly, where did you grow up? Oh, wow. I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. How did you make it out here? This is what the kids always ask when I show them on the map. I'm from here. I came with my mother out here and my family is out here. And I came in 78. And what's ironic about the situation is I was one of the first six graders to go into the middle school. And then I told the kids, last year, here I am, the first six-grade teacher to go back into an elementary school.

And I just thought, wow, you know, and it is. It's very strange. It makes it seem more, it just makes me have more of a commitment to the students. Even today, they asked me, this is Woodley, did people always tell you that you had to grow up and do something great and be someone? And I said, yeah, I said, you all are going to pay my taxes someday. So you need to learn how to read, you need to know all this stuff. Because I need you to grow up and be successful. And I asked, I said, don't you hear that all the time? And they're like, well, not all the time. But so now it's just getting them into that mindset of you are our future. And knowing that someday they're going to be the ones that are, it's going to make the rules govern our country. And now they're starting, they're writing their own newspapers, so now they're starting to look and think about it and look at the news and say, oh, wow, how would I handle this? And it's making a very rich environment for discussion in the classroom.

And now your school, Barcelona, is a probationary school? Yes, he is. How does that sit with a child in your class that they're in a probationary school? It doesn't. You know what? First of all, I think it's the attitude of the teacher. If you go in and you're like, oh, I'm so tired and I have all this work to do and everyone's watching, then that makes them nervous. But if you go in and you say, hey, today is a new day, I'm excited about what I'm doing. What can we do to beat this? I even showed my students the report card. I said, look at this. You know, and we looked at, because it shows like ethnic background and test scores. So we looked at where our class did really, really well. And so we looked at that and we said, I said, look at this guys. We were not supposed to do as well as we did. And we did not. We knew our goal. We set our goals and we reached for them. And we actually reached a little bit above and we were happy with what we got.

We tried to stay in the 80th percentile and everything we did. And it was really exciting. And this year is the same way. I'm starting off and I think, gosh, there's such babies. But it's the beginning of the year. So I just pushed them and say, you know what guys? Don't say, I can't. I don't want to hear it. We're going to do it. It's wonderful. Cecilia, do we send a mixed message though when we want kids to have high expectations of themselves and teachers and parents to have high expectations of our kids? And then we say that they're going to a school that is substandard. Is that a problem for you or how do we... It's not a problem because we've never thought of ourselves that way. As a matter of fact, we actually really felt like we shouldn't have even been put in that category. However, we are realists and we are a school that is always under continuous improvement. And we have areas of growth. We're very excited about our research-based SFA reading program and math program. We are on Eskis Baldrige School as is our cluster.

So we are continuously looking at ways that we can improve. And our children are very focused in terms of what they want to achieve. We have test rallies. We target schools that we want to outscore. And looking at our academy kids who did very well, they looked at their neighboring middle schools and outside schools that they felt had done very well. And they decided they wanted to outscore those schools. So they're very focused. And it really comes from the work that we've done with Eskis Baldrige and really looking at where we're at and where we're going. Our parents are very supportive. The whole school really has a school-wide focus of continuous improvement. So we are, like I said, it's a continuous process. But we are ready for the challenge and we take every day in that sense with urgency. Yeah. Maybe you could explain to our viewers Eskis Baldrige. Eskis provides tools for a system that can help you really chart and know how you are doing in any particular area. It could be as simple as a bar graph that explains what your last spelling test was.

It could be another bar graph that looks at your number of students who are attending school on a daily basis. The number of timeout slips. Personal data folders where children are responsible for and accountable for saying, this is what I got on my story test. This is what I did on my meaningful sentences. This is what I did on my word of last test. So they were constantly focusing on goals and saying to the children, this is what you got. But where are you going next? It could be a personal data folders and math. So it's a system in which you are able to measure continuous improvement. Baldrige is a whole framework that helps you look at the stakeholders that help you look at your school as a system. And it helps you look at data to drive what you are doing. So it really includes the plan-do study act model that we are still learning and still following. It just amazes me how scientific teaching has become. Absolutely. Certainly still in art. And there are still personal connections. But there is a lot of science to it. Absolutely.

We have a caller, C-Solve. How are you? Good evening, Dr. Allison. How are you? I'm pretty good. Good, good. Could we answer a question for you? Or here in your comment? Yeah. Well, my question is for Mr. Gallagos is the cluster superintendent. My question is in regards to the Zambrano agreement. I understand that he recently attended a legislative meeting where the Zambrano agreement was discussed. And I just like to hear what was discussed and what are the plans on his end for dealing with some of those suggestions that came up at that meeting. Thanks, C-Solve. Let me first share with everybody what the Zambrano agreement is. Back in 1987, concerned members of the South Valley community, they were a group called the South Valley Improvement Coalition. Came to the school district and we're working with the school district actually before 1987. But by 1987, there had been some frustration with the group in terms of their ability to get things done in the real-dunder cluster. And they asked that a person from the U.S. Department of Justice, Community Relations Service, come in to the school district and help them mediate some sort of agreement with the school district about how to address the issues of student achievement in the real-dunder cluster.

The individual who came to the school district to do the mediation was a gentleman by the name of Richard Zambrano, thus called the Zambrano agreement. So that agreement started in 1987, the school district and the South Valley Improvement Coalition members met periodically to take a look at where the school district was in terms of adherence to that agreement. And that continued, in fact that Zambrano agreement, Zambrano committee or monitoring committee continued in some form or fashion all the way till about the end of spring 2000, at which time the committee had some internal conflicts and was unable to continue meeting. And so the committee itself disbanded itself at that point. The meeting that Cecil is talking about occurred last week at the Legislative Education Study Committee meeting in Hobbes, New Mexico, at which a committee that had been formed presented a report. That committee, I was on that as Dr. Allison's representative, Flora Sanchez, who was the state board president, was there representing the state board of education. Mr. Sam Sanchez, a member of the South Valley community was there representing the South Valley community and then Dr. Pauline Rendoni, who is the director of the Legislative Education Study Committee, was the one that actually put together the report and presented it.

That report went through all of the areas that are in the Zambrano agreement. What we did was I provided information about our adherence to that agreement. And what I was able to do is provide information showing that we had complied with the expectations or the activities that would say in the agreement. What we all agree is that we have not reached the levels of student achievement or lower dropout rates that everybody hoped would occur as a result of that agreement. That agreement by the way was amended in 1996 when a group called the Higher Ed Initiative was formed and asked that that be reviewed and again included more activities. The overall feeling was that we have complied with the activities. We still need as a district to improve student achievement in all those other areas.

And we agreed at that point that the report will be presented to Dr. Allison and be presented to our school board and will be presented to the state superintendent and state board. And obviously to the legislature. The legislature will decide what they will do with that information if anything. I believe that as the discussions went on, there will be discussions because of that presentation that or some legislators will, legislators will be asking that there be a study about whether the Rio Grande Cluster should break away from the school district or whether APS should be broken up into smaller districts. That's an issue that has been out there for a number of years. In fact, back in the, I believe the late 80s, early 90s, there was actually a study that was done around breaking up the school district. One of the things that came out of this presentation was that while these are issues that are clearly in the Rio Grande Cluster, these issues are also issues that we find in many, many other school districts in New Mexico, certainly across the country. But the importance of them here in New Mexico is that we can show a history of really working on these issues, but not making the kind of growth that we all want.

And I think everybody understands, at least the legislators understand, this is not something that's going to happen overnight. There is no magic bullet. It takes a lot of work. It will take resources. One of the conversations during that presentation was what sort of resources might we be looking at? We talked about possibly expansion of early childhood programs. We talked about possibly looking at incentives to the staff who are working in the Rio cluster and in all superintendent schools. We talked about ways to provide more support to the principals. We spent a lot of time talking about how do we engage our communities more effectively in helping us do our work in schools. We talked about how do we support parents so that they can support their children. So all of these different ideas, I think, will come together with the other issues that the Legislative Education Study Committee has been studying during the interim. And they will put together a package. I don't expect that it will be a package directed at the Sambrano agreement. It will be a package that looks at how do we support schools that face these challenges and that are working hard every day to try to do a better job with our students. I think we've learned it isn't just activities. You really have to change the culture. And that takes talking to people, working with people and being very connected with the people inside of your community.

Dr. Allison, just one point I think is important to make. The way that people describe our superintendent schools, the way people describe the schools in the Rio and the cluster are that they are low performing schools. I believe that that's a misnomer. I believe, and now we have some data at the middle school that says that if we have a student that comes to a middle school in APS in the sixth grade, stays in the seventh grade and stays in the eighth grade, that those students are performing just as well as other schools that everybody calls really good schools. So I think what that means is that it's not that they're not performing. There's actually very good instruction going on in there. The way I would describe them is that they're low achieving. They start low. Many of our children come to school behind and they stay behind because they started so far behind. But it's not because they're not making growth every year. And I think that's a tribute to the kind of instruction that's going on in our schools, to the teaching staffs and to the leadership of the principals in those schools.

And to the parents who keep their kids in the same school for the duration, and to move them from school to school to school. That's one of the biggest challenges. So many children move from one school to another. So they get one instructional approach here, another one there. That is a factor. That's problematic for us. We have another caller. Cornell, are you there? Hi, how are you doing? Pretty good. How can we help? I actually wanted to pick up a little bit on what Mr. Geigo was just saying because my question was about the system that's used and earlier in the show. There was a mention of civil rights. And the system that's used now, at least the naming system, seems to be more denigrating to poorer schools and actually is placing a lot of the blame, at least from terminology that's used. And I'm just wondering how that can coincide because Mr. Geigo cleared that up how he feels about the system.

But that naming system goes out across television in the media. And meanwhile, other schools around the city and places like where I live and in the heights or the foothills are allowed to appear normal when their schools may not necessarily be having a sort of, I don't know, anti-racist curriculum or more multiculturalism. They sort of get away from the spotlight. Whereas these other schools, all of the spotlight is put on them as if they're the problem school. Yeah, so the real question is about labeling schools. Is that a positive or negative? I think I'm hearing your question. Geigo, I think he asked you. I think that when you label anybody, that can be very negative. I think the other reality though is that the schools that we're talking about have been struggling for years. And as an educational system in general, I don't believe that we've ever provided them the kind of support that they need to do the kind of job that everybody expects of them.

And so while I may not agree with the concept of labeling, it is a policy tool that's used by legislators, by state board members, to really focus the efforts of school districts on the schools that are struggling the most. I think from a community member perspective, from a parent perspective, I think that's good that now the focus is on us as a school district to help them improve. I agree the focus should not be on the school because I believe they are working hard and they are making good gains. The focus is on us. And we've stepped up to the plate. Us and the system haven't. Yeah, because the system sets the tone and gives the money. And Cecilia, what do you think? Well, I'm really pleased to see that the district has really come to our support. Those schools in the real cluster have been looking at this challenge. And really, for the last three to four years, we're really put to the test. We were the first cluster to look at research-based programs and have had research-based programs in literacy for the last three to four years. We now have all our elementaries that have research-based numeracy programs. But we have to keep in mind that things take time and to do things well, you really need three to five years span before we can begin to see the data that we're looking for.

I think we're also very motivated in our work and passionate about our work. Every principal and every school, every teacher and every one of our schools is so proud of the work that they're doing and so involved in the work that we're doing that. To me, it's truly exciting and a proud moment to be associated with our cluster. And our esteem comes from within. We don't rely on those kind of external factors. And sometimes it gets a little tough going up that hill. But we're seeing good progress and we're very pleased. We're looking much better at third grade at sixth grade with our Academy, seventh grade. We have a ninth grade Academy, so we're very hopeful. And we're realistic as well. Fascinating discussion. Kimberly, real quick. I was thinking I think the labels really do help us focus. And I think we need the commitment in the community too. The parents have to say, I am going to be committed and keep this child in this school so they can get the benefits of the research-based programs. Because the teachers are there. We're there. You can drive by any time at night. We're working there late. They're early in the morning and we are working. So we really need that community buy-in, which we have at Barcelona. I'm happy to say.

You guys have a remarkable school. We have one last caller just about a minute. Ernie, how are you? How are you doing this evening? I'm doing well. I got a question. How long can these principals stay at an elementary school? And do you ever check on them if these kids are passing or not? I would love to answer that because with our new system, our new cluster system, we have instituted a project where we are in those schools. As a matter of fact, we're right in the middle of our site visits. And the cluster service team and I come into schools, visit classrooms. We use our cluster strategies to look at staff professional development. We're looking at schedules that support literacy. We're looking at how the community is involved. We're looking at articulation K through 16. We're looking at all of these elements. So we are more than ever before articulating with principals going into classrooms, talking with teachers, debriefing after our visits and actually documenting what we're seeing, what we saw last spring, what we saw now, and what we expect to see in January. So it's really powerful. And I have to tell you that people in the schools, our principals and staff are very eager to have us come in. There are things that we have to address. And there are schools that are at different stages. But that work is going on very, very clearly. And I really believe that the real cluster is a classic example of this work.

And I know you guys have to go and we get another set of people up here. But I do have to say that Cecilia is not just a principal. She is in essence a superintendent of real cluster. We're breaking our system up into 12 really 13 different segments so that we get much more personalization than we currently have. There's no finer CLP as we call them cluster leader principal. Thank you Kimberly. Thank you Cecilia and thank you Diego. And we're going to take a change chairs here for a second. Diego is going to stay and we'll be talking about parent involvement. A parent involvement is the key to success inside of our school systems. And when I say parent involvement, I don't mean just the kind of parent involvement where you participate in decisions through the CACs, which are the Citizens Advisory Councils. But parent engagement with your child at school, coming to school, understanding what your child is doing, working with your child in a meaningful way, turning off the television. Those are all keys to us.

But that Citizens Advisory Council is a place to start if you want to look at the whole district and we have the Del Rio Citizens Advisory Group and we have the Mountain Advisory Group, La Montanya. So both of those are available to you. And now we're going to show you a few slides about the CACs. There are two Citizens Advisory Councils. One is the Vista Del Rio, as I just mentioned. The CAC, that CAC, which includes schools in the Albuquerque High, Cebola, Rio Grande, Valley and West Mesta clusters. They will meet on Thursday November 1st at 6.30 p.m. at Jimmy Carter Middle School. The second council is at La Montanya Council. That will meet at Del Norte, El Dorado, Highland Aquava, Monzano and Sandia clusters. And they will meet on November 8th at 6.45 at the Albuquerque Public Schools Montgomery Complex at the corner of Louisiana and Comanche. To learn more about the CACs, if you have any questions or issues that need to be resolved between yourself and APS, please call our Service Center and the numbers on the screen, 842-3742.

Now I'm back with a new set of guests. Diego Gallegos is still here and Ellen Moore, welcome Ellen, principal at Truman. Second year there is principal. Third year. Third year. And it goes quickly. Yeah, and you were the assistant principal. Correct. I've been at Truman for a total of six years. It's six years, well. And Mr. Obenchain, Sam Obenchain from Harrison. Yes sir. How long have you been at Harrison? This is the beginning of my third year. Beginning of your third year. Both middle schools. Correct. How are you rated by the state? We are a school in need of improvement. That's our official ranking. So we're on the probationary list, but in need of improvement. In need of improvement. And Truman is the same status, although my understanding is tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. we may be learning which direction we're going with that status. Because the state's going to announce tomorrow morning. Correct. Tell us about that Diego. What's going to happen with the state tomorrow morning?

Well Dr. Allison, tomorrow at 130, the state superintendent will hold a press conference at Barcelona Elementary. And at that point they will release all the rankings for all schools in the state of New Mexico. Now in the morning, the schools will be getting a call from the State Department of Education, the individual schools to let them know what ranking they've gotten, what rating they've had. Yeah, it'll be only the schools that are rated probationary that will get the call in the morning to let them know what their status will be. Okay. Just reminding our viewers that you can call 1-866-337-5172 if you have a comment or a question. Sam, I'm really impressed with what's going on at Harrison. Tell me what you're doing to make a difference there. Well, we're doing quite a number of things. We have, for the past two years, worked at creating a climate and a culture of positive student achievement. We've worked at creating a climate and culture of safety, of security, making kids feel like they belong that they want to be there, focusing on academics, on instruction.

And for the most part, we have worked on bringing a staff in that is committed to teaching adolescents and making a difference and are focused on really impacting middle schools in positive ways. We're talking about middle school redesign and making a change in terms of how we structure the school and how we change and alter our instruction to meet the needs of young adolescents. So we change our system to meet the needs of the kids. They don't have to change themselves to meet the needs of us. Yeah, I hope that's the way that we're working on. That's refreshing, actually. Ellen, all this stuff about middle schools. You know, we went to junior high schools to middle schools. I think a lot of our viewers are confused about what's the difference between the two. And we've had all these discussions about pre-adolescence. What's that all about?

Well, the middle school philosophy is different than the junior high model. And, you know, with one avenue of this, the six graders came into the middle school. And I still think some people debate as we heard with the previous speakers that maybe six grade shouldn't be part of the middle school, but it really gets down to a philosophical avenue of how to work with children. And tying in with that things such as counseling, support, individualizing instruction, working in teams or families, and trying to create smaller learning environments for students and personalizing what's happening for them at the school level. So it really does come down to the philosophy more than the structure, even where the structure is critical and how we move ahead. Yeah, it's going back to what Diego said to you. You can have all kinds of activities, but if you don't change the structure of the system and the culture ultimately, that much changes. Michelle, are you there? I have a question, and I'll have to get to it in kind of a roundabout way.

Not too roundabout. As an elementary teacher, I want you to know that I had a little girl in my class named Alissa, who did not know her name. She had never been referred to by her name. She was called, hey you, or brat. I had a little boy in my class who had never used a knife in a fork. I had another little boy who, on the census card, the parents wrote rag pickers because what they did is they lived in a field, and they picked through garbage, and the little boy had never seen a book. Now this is a six-year-old children, and what I would like to express to you is that the public at large does not understand what poverty does to the learning ability of a child. I would like to know what you as superintendent and as a school system is going to do when these, the list of probationary schools live in the paper the other day. As you can see, all of them dealt with the poverty issue, and what makes me angry is that the teachers are to blame for the poor, low achievement of the students, when really it is the poverty issue that is impacting their achievement.

And I would like to know what you and the school system can do in a public-reate relations manner to make the teachers have better morale so that the public realizes it is not the teacher's fault. That was round about, but I think we got the message there. I know for Truman, I guess philosophically, what is happening in education is to become full service schools, and how do we begin to work with communities to bring the services in? Because in many cases, in poverty communities, it's hard for the families to get to the service. And an example is Truman is working within the West Mesa cluster for school-based health clinic, which is just something we haven't had. I think Harrison has had and the Highland cluster has been there, but to begin to work with community agencies. And I don't feel our teachers feel they are to blame for what the condition of the school, but they do feel responsible and committed to try to move it in a different direction.

And I think the whole issue of blame and trying to look at people to blame, then we get off on the wrong foot. And what our commitment is, and all public education, the commitment is to take the children where they are when they come to us and do the best we can do with them. And if you look at some of the changes that we've made at know at Harrison, and I know at Truman as well, is that we look at growth that students make from the time that they get to our school to the time that they leave. And if we can focus on those positives, really the state accountability labeling system really has not impacted us in terms of morale. A morale is having a morale issue on our teachers. Our teachers don't see it as a blame as much as they see it as a challenge. And we, from the moment I arrived at Harrison, we've decided that our work is cut out for us regardless of what ranking comes in.

And we knew we had some improvements to make. We know we have a long way to go. And it's, again, we try not to get into the issue of blame, but look at it as a challenge. And what can we do with the kids that come to us and what programs can we provide for the entire child? It's still kind of productive to blame teachers, Diego. It really is kind of productive to blame anybody. Teachers do get a lot of the brunt of the blame. And as I said earlier, I don't believe this is about teachers who are not doing their job. This is about teachers who are faced with a very difficult situation when children come to them, not prepared to be in school. And that's an important issue. And our state has begun to respond to that. The full day kindergarten movement is very critical. I believe that that's going to have a huge impact. One of the recommendations that I will be making to you and then ultimately to our board is that during our legislative work that we take a look at, really providing more support early on, not only to children, but to their families. We have a program now called the Even Start program that was funded initially through our Title I federal funds. Now we fund that through our district. That Even Start program provides support to children.

But their parents also get GED classes to get their high school degrees. They get English as a second language. Support a number of things that they receive. Because we know that the parents also need to be supported if they are going to do a better job of helping their children to be successful. So we need to take a look at those kinds of things. Now Dr. Allison, I think there's a lot of other things that we need to look at. The national research shows that children that come from poor backgrounds do fairly well during the school year. But they drop off in the summertime. Children who come from higher income families continue to grow academically. So when they get back to school in the fall, they've not lost any time. They're ready to go. The children from poorer situations, they lose a lot. And so the teacher has to spend the first month, two months catching them back up to where they were before. So we don't get as much instruction as we could if we had more support for kids. So we may be looking at extended years for children who need more support. That would also be a way to support teachers by giving them more salary for working longer.

Those are things that we'll talk about. Hopefully we'll get support legislatively for some of these ideas. And this is just the beginning of the work that we're going to be doing with our schools in terms of analyzing what they're doing, trying to figure out what's working and not working, which reading models are more effective than others, all those kinds of things. We've got some great times ahead because I think we're going to learn things we never have learned before. This guy's excited. He keeps us excited. Do we have extended learning at either of your two schools? We do during the summer. We have a month-long program and it has traditionally been for students who have not achieved at the level that we expect and with parental support. And it is funded through the city, through the middle school initiative funds. And we're able to provide transportation in four weeks of intensive study to really kind of catch them up from where they should have been probably in December, but to prepare them for the next year. It's been a good partnership with the city.

Yes, it has. And we have had discussion. It has just come up this year within our SRC. We just had our first discussion of looking at a year-round schedule for Truman. We do have one of our feeder elementary schools on year-round, so we're in the very beginning stages of evaluating this and beginning to look at how our community could benefit. It's so interesting because the people who have their children year-round schools seem to swear by them. If you tell somebody we're going to year-round in a school that isn't year-round, they get very nervous. I think change in general makes people nervous, but I think if we do the background work that Ellen's talking about, I think we'll find out that it is ultimately beneficial. We've had an initial discussion about year-round schools in the real cluster as well. One of our feeders is a year-round school, Navajo Elementary School. Based on research and what we hear from the schools, that it seems like that's something we need to pursue. I think if we pursue that, we have to be very clear that we need to provide that additional support during that time that they're off. If we just go to a year-round schedule without that kind of intervention and support to children during that time period, we may not get any new results or better results.

Frankly, it's going to cost money. There's no way that you can shortcut that. Isabel, are you still there? I'm here. How could we help? Well, I want to congratulate the first two that were there and also the panel that is there now. My question is this, we work with kids trying to get them to continue and not drop out and go into higher education. The problem that we have come across is the lack of counselors in the schools. Now, how can that be improved? In other words, does a budget need increasing or can the legislature do something about that or can Mr. Gallagos do something about that? In regard to increasing the number of counselors that the schools have, I think this would be a big support for the principals and the teachers because the counselors right now, I mean, they have their hands full.

And they probably don't get to the person, the student that probably is a little shy in asking for help. And so we have a program that is touching a little bit on this. But the question is, how can you get more money? I think that's what you need in order to put in more counselors and I think that would help in a lot of ways. Maybe I could ask Sam and Ellen, how many counselors do you have with your ratio of her students right now? I believe the ratio, we have one and a half counselors. We have one counselor full time and a counselor that we share with another school. We have about 650 students for one and a half counselors. And we have three counselors to 900 students and we do fund one out of our Title I budget to work with our academic intervention students.

And I do believe schools are short on counselors, but I also believe we need to look within ourselves and what is the role of the counselor. And I think often counselors are still utilized for scheduling purposes or sometimes clerical type of positions instead of supporting kids. And there's definitely a movement to have counselors working with children running support groups. But I think the old train of thought was a lot of scheduling and that type of thing. So everybody is stretched then, but we need to look at what we're doing. Do you have any thoughts on this? Dr. Nelson, our resource needs are tremendous. In Mexico, actually based on our per capita income, we really support our schools. I think we rank about fifth in the country in terms of how much we provide our schools in comparison to how much our people earn. So we are very supportive. Our legislature has always been very supportive of schools. But it's not enough. We still live in a state where we rank at the bottom in terms of our income. So it's a difficult thing. We do need more resources.

We are going to have to look inward and do everything we can to provide the kind of support that Ellen talked about. There's no question that we are going to have to change some things. That's actually one of the things that we've been looking at as superintendent schools is taking a look at the barriers to school improvement. One of those barriers is clearly a resource barrier. There are not enough resources to meet the needs of our children in our schools. But we'll keep working on it. And we will again recommend to our legislature that they continue to increase the amount of support that they provide our schools. And I would argue too that the more we feed our system, the system of educating people, K-16, the more likely we will become a state that does have a higher levels of income for all of our people. Also other programs and procedures and going back to the middle school philosophy that we can impact the kinds of things that counselors should be doing in schools. We can impact in other ways in terms of how we structure our schools to create smaller learning communities within the schools.

We have a program, we have a position that we call the student success advisor. And that's an individual who works directly with families connecting them with community agencies. And many times that just making that connection is something that the families haven't had before and provides the support. There are a lot of agencies and a lot of support systems and networks out there that many families don't have access to. And the only way they can get access is through the school. And so what we need to do as well is not merely an issue of how many counselors do you have, but with the resources that you have, how are you providing those kinds of services to the kids. So part of it is looking at how do we structure our schools in general. Whether we like it or not, we're the center of the community for a lot of those services. Mark, are you there? Yes, I am. How can we help? How are you guys doing? A little background first, about three weeks ago, this is a strange thing, about three weeks ago, on one of the Saturday morning news shows, one of the newscasters said that intelligence was unimportant.

I really, I called the studio and chewed into them. And from what I see, it's basically that it's in a lot of the schools that the sports programs are more important than the academics. My question is because I took three IQ tests on the internet and the average was 136. My question is, is why is it that there is no abilities testing or IQ testing to students in the second, seventh, and tenth grades to determine whether or not the students have higher IQs and can be directed into programs that would give them a greater advantage because of the intellect that they may have. And Mr. Gaiangos hit it right on the nail right on the head too by saying that poverty does give a disadvantage to a lot of children that are very smart.

But the question is still about the abilities in the IQ testing. So the question is, why don't we ability our IQ test? I think we do do some of that testing, but it's usually done for children who are exhibiting very high levels of achievement or that appear to have some strengths in other areas, creativity, some other skill or giftedness in some area. So we do test those children who appear to need additional support more than what they're getting just in the general curriculum. And that becomes an issue for special education. So we do do that kind of testing. But I do think that the idea of, for me, the idea of testing people to see how much IQ they have would turn into a situation where people would say, well, that student doesn't have a very high IQ, so I'm going to have a very low expectation of that student. It might help those who test high because people would have an even higher expectation of them. But I think for the most part, we potentially would be looking at kids just in terms of what some tests is versus what we know they can do in a classroom.

A lot of children who test a high may not do well in school. And kids who might test low actually do quite well. My belief is that it's all about hard work. And if you have a good teacher and a student who's working hard and a parent that's supportive, those children will do well. And we know that. So I'm not sure that the testing for IQ would be helpful for the majority of children. It is helpful for those who need additional support. And I would concur with Diego and probably what, 10 years ago, the Howard Gardner Research on multiple intelligences is still popular in many classrooms throughout Albuquerque. And I think, you know, when we look at models within the classroom of looking at multiple intelligences rather than a test. And that would be my fear getting into testing on IQ. But there are intelligences and creativity and interpersonal skills. We have to look at the gamut of what intelligences. And I think many teachers are doing that and tapping into those intelligences within their room.

And I think as well, the part of the middle school philosophy is to, we call it heterogeneous grouping, which is to bring all kids of all levels together so that they can benefit from one another. And I guess one of our stakeholders is the business community. And we look to them to find out what do they need from us in terms of the product that we're putting out there. And more often than not, it has not a lot to do with IQ as much as it does with their ability to problem solve, their ability to work with team members, their ability to put in the hard work that is needed to get the job done. So I would agree that when we look, when we start looking at intellectual capacities, then we're again doing some labeling in pigeon-hoeing kids and not allowing them, in many cases, to reach a full potential. I remind that when President Bush was in our community in August, and he was addressing a group of students, and he talked about a story that he had a group of students who graduated from Yale, where he went to school, I believe.

And he congratulated all of the graduates from Yale who got wonderful grades and got honors and more little things and so on and so forth. And then he said to the rest of you who are mediocre students, I just say, you too can be president. Liz, are you there? Yes, I am. I'm kind of about what you guys were talking earlier about the probationary schools. I have two daughters, okay, one daughter attended Army Hall Elementary, which is a probationary school. She has approved tremendously, and I don't know if it's because of SFA, the success of math, but she has approved tremendously, and I am a heavily involved in parent involvement, I mean, you cannot get me out of the schools. Good.

So my question is, why is both schools are probationary, but my daughter has improved in one school compared to the other. And my other question is, I disagree with a prison ball from Harrison. Oh, okay. He's not to be mean, but he's a total jerk. My daughter went, my own daughter went to any school. We're not going to talk like that on this show. I'm sorry, but my daughter went to any school. She scored high on testing. She's a gifted off student. But I'm looking at both aspects of. Well, let us try to answer your first question first, okay? You're just going to say something. Yeah, I think I lost my turn of thought. I think the issue is, many times, there are different environments work differently for different kids, and you can change of environment. Sometimes we'll do wonders for students, and many times you can't anticipate what is going to work, what's going to click with a child. Sometimes there are connect personal connections that students make with teachers, and that motivates them.

Many times it's an issue of a peer group that they associate with, and they seem to become more motivated by that. I think depending on the different factors at different schools, some kids catch on, click with that particular environment. It's a very complicated process learning. It's hard to say that there's just one thing that makes the difference, or doesn't make the difference. And you put something that I would have thought about, but a peer group can make a difference. Have you seen that, Ellen? Yes, and also the teachers' development. They're developing throughout their careers, and a second-year teacher will be very different than a fifth-year teacher. I think we also have to hold that as part of the picture when we're looking at child development and classroom interactions. Everybody's kind of growing together, and maturity of the student, him or herself, makes a difference from year to year. Sure. And the research on teachers is pretty clear that more experience they have, the more impact they have on student learning. It's like anything else if you're a tool-and-dine maker, or a physician, or a surgeon.

You know, when I be the first surgery of a surgeon, do you have any thoughts about improving our schools? Well, lots of thoughts to be awesome. As I said, number one, we need to invest in our teachers. Well, I believe they're doing a good job. I believe they would agree that they want to learn more about how they can be better. They want to learn more about effective reading models, more about ways to manage students' behavior. Lots of things like that. We need to support them. We need clearly to start earlier. We need to give students who are behind more support, more time in school, more effective programs. I think we have to have high expectations of these children. Now, believing that they can do just as well, if they get a high-quality teacher, they can support them. So there are many factors. I believe we are moving toward trying to identify what those factors are and provide support to our students and to our staff, so that they can make those kind of changes that we all want and need. Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Ellen. Thank you, Diego.

I think our audience has had an opportunity to really learn tonight about the complexities of teaching and learning. And I consider the three of you to be heroes in this system. Thank you very much. Thank you. And thank you for listening and keep learning. This is Brad Alice, and you're Superintendent. We'll see you next month. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.