81 Primary reel 2; Public Affairs; Uc60-1579

Hi we're back now and we're going to go to Kent Manahan who's got the latest returns on the gubernatorial race both Democrats and Republicans can't. OK Dick we'll start first with the Republican gubernatorial contenders and we'll take a look at the numbers as we have them with about 25 percent of the districts reporting in Tom Kramer has projected is still out in front with twenty eight thousand seven hundred thirty four votes. Pat Kramer. Coming in second with twenty three thousand eight hundred seventy three votes in both Sullivan. Third place with fourteen thousand six hundred and fifty two votes. OK James Wallwork eleven thousand two hundred three votes Barry Parker seven thousand eight hundred ninety six votes Anthony imperially. Just a little over 4000 votes. Again this is 25 percent of the districts reporting in Jack Rafferty three thousand two hundred two votes in Richard McGlenn just about 5500 votes there for the former public utilities commissioner. We'll move over to the Democrats and take a look at the numbers we have for you there. Statewide we have 24 percent of the districts reporting in and as projected Jim Florio is

still out in front right now with 35000 884 votes Ken Gibson was just a little over 25000 votes in Bob Breaux with just a little over 22000 votes will continue the list of 13 contenders. Tommy Smith was 22000 just a little over 22000 modes. Joe Merlino twenty one thousand one hundred fifteen votes and John Degnan with nineteen thousand four hundred fifty seven votes had died with five thousand one hundred fifty four votes and end Klein with about 35 hundred votes a little better than that there. And Barbara McConnell with just a little over 3000 votes. This is again 24 percent of the districts reporting in William Hamilton with just a little over a thousand votes a 747 Rose Romagna with 866 Kay and Herbert Buehler with 782.

And I think we have one more. A man with four hundred and twenty eight votes and that's with 24 percent of the districts reporting and that's how the numbers stack up right now. Dana thank you. And in addition to the numbers we're piling up here showing Florio on Kaine the winners and the CBS projects in w NBC in New York is projected as Cain the Republican went on and Florio as the Democratic winner. We're going to go to Jim Florio headquarters. Now we're done. Torrance our correspondent is standing by with four years campaign manager. Don. We are here. I just talk with the campaign manager Jim Maloney one more time and he did confirm that that NBC projection about him for being a winner Jim has not come down yet. We're told it would be quite a while before he does come downstairs. But you can feel the expectation the anticipation in the air here at the cherry building in Cherry Hill. Jim Florio probably the winner and he certainly is as far as these people are concerned. We're having a little difficult time here hearing on the numbers as you're projecting them but they seem to jive pretty well with what Jim Florio is campaign people are heading into the Big Board down at the end. The writing is literally on the wall

here. And as you can hear the cheers going up occasionally as more numbers go up. Some good looking numbers in Ocean County a county that they haven't thought was really going to be all that important to their campaign for those very critical North County numbers we're doing. Gloria wanted to do well and is apparently doing as well as his campaign at home and down south here his base of support of course here in Camden County those numbers would come first and they were very strong numbers and they vote again very well. But we're told that Jim Florio isn't. Completely buying all this shadow of course he's very very confident upstairs he hasn't decided in his own mind that he is the winner and apparently he won't until those numbers are completely official. We're told that he's laying off taking some calls even from some national democratic people who are calling up to congratulate him. But we know that Bill Bradley has been in touch with them and has already congratulated them Senator Bill Bradley. That will be uncoachable later on again today. And when Jim Florio does come downstairs of course we'll be here and we'll get down to him. Can you hear me Don. Yeah John Kerry barely. Let me ask you a question. Florio was the only campaign that was involved

in kind of a televised controversy both with Merlino and Degnan with negative advertising back and forth. We're going to come back to that question I hope later on we've got to go to Bob Sullivan's headquarters right away. Something's breaking there. To bust out of the headquarters with rage wells and Elizabeth. Thank you all very very very much. It's great to see so many familiar smiling faces again. It's also worth almost a million dollars to see all my kids together. Thank you all very very much.

I have to say this and I'll start out with the bad news first. About 10 minutes ago I called Tom Kane thanking graduated him. That if all indications stay the way they are he will be the Republican nominee for governor of the state of New Jersey. What's important is this. What's important is this Tom Kaine ran a good clean campaign. He happens to be a personal friend of mine. Tom Cain represents everything that is good about the Reagan program. He represents everything that is good about good government in the state of New Jersey. I have pledged to him my complete 100 percent support in his

quest for the governorship of the state of New Jersey. And I urge all of you to support me and. As I said to work out this campaign trail the important thing is a Republican governor and a Republican legislature and Republican freeholders and Republican mayors and Republican councilman. I don't remember ever saying that it was important that it had to be had to be Bob Sullivan but the principle. Principle stays the same. It's important that the Republican Party trial and I will work my damnedest to help Tom can get elected governor of the state of New Jersey this year and I urge you want to do the same thing.

It's difficult for me to say how much your support has meant to me and my family. It really is. We had tired moments and we had long moments and trying moments. Every time we did. However that's probably Pat Kramer calling over. That. That. Thinks I want. OK we're back now with Hazel Clark who's a Republican leader in the assembly and Alan Carter who's the Democratic majority leader in the assembly Hazel Sullivan seems like a nice guy you just said off camera that he is a nice guy. You're a nice guy I like him doing spending two or three million dollars running for governor.

Well I think both Sullivan had accomplished just about everything that he set out to do with his life the visa business. And I guess he decided his midlife that he would run for public office because of the fact that he felt he could apply some of the business principles that he had learned that he was successful with the government because I know he deeply believes that those kinds of principles should be brought into government. Let me follow up with a question the same question of Alan. Is the party the Republican Party in your case going to pull together pretty quickly behind the campaign. Is he a hard candidate for people to get behind. No I think the party will pull very quickly behind him. For us it's we don't have the luxury of not doing that. And I think you'll see it happen very rapidly. Paul Sullivan just said is probably the best indication of how quickly it will happen. And you knew Jim Florio in Trenton and. Andy you follow the campaign closely I know you had a favorite son of Bill Hamilton a lot of people like a lot. What do you think will happen to the Democratic Party. I think once again we can't afford the luxury either of having. Too much divergence or variance and I think Jim is a good standard bill. I think that. You'll find people with

very very few short days and people be rallying him and I think there'll be very little dissidence there. Let me let me ask a question that's tough to ask people who have to run for office this year but I know you're both. I usually can start with you Hazel. What's Tom Kaine's greatest weakness since then candidate of the Republican A. Statewide candidate. Well. Maybe the leftover image from 1977 maybe that's the best way that I can say it. I'm not sure that that image really exists today. But I think it's something that he has to work through. I think he can do it. He comes with a tremendous amount of experience and knows a tremendous amount about state government and how it's run. He's been there and how he thinks it should be right. And I think maybe just to break the pattern which I think he did in the primary. Why While it wasn't 77 that you know he projected. I'm not going to let you off on this one Al and I'll be back. But right now we're going to pat Kramers headquarters

with Steve Talor and talk with Kramer's campaign manager Steve are you ready in a caucus. State. We're here Dick and the first thing we wanted to show you is the vote tally board that's being shown to the Kramers supporters here tonight and you can see there's a lot of white space on that board. Only two counties have been posted. Cape May County and Passaic County and it's probably not a coincidence that the Kramers doing very well in both those counties but there are a lot of vote totals we haven't seen the Kramer people are not willing to concede yet. But this is anything but a happy party with me is Walt Peters who was the political director of the campaign and you had a lot to do with delivery in Cape May County. Well really the person you can thank for Cape May County is a fellow named filamentous Lucci who is the chairman of Cape May. Primarily it was the last on between the chairman and the assemblyman and the senators. Now let me ask you I mean excuse me but one that's not quite so pleasant and that's Bergen County adjoining Passaic one that the mayor hopes to do very well in. And we don't have any numbers posted over there but I understand that you're not doing real well there right now. Actually Bergen County is particularly key to the election. We look to do a lot better than

we seem to be doing. We have one half of the vote in right now. We are leading but we're not leading significantly. We felt that we that we need to bring it in. So we are concerned with the vote coming out of Bergen County. It's a tough question what happened what happened. I don't know. I have to take a look at it. I know the organization as far as the chairman up there and the people we're working very hard whether it's the result of the of the fine direct mail campaign or Tom came put on it right at the end of the campaign. I don't know but we're in problem. We have problems with Bergen County. What is this. Maybe a little early for you to draw a conclusion but what does this mean in terms of the future of organization and politics in the state if anybody who had the county organization was swept up in the Republican primary it was mayor Kramer and now it looks like he's losing the. What it means very honestly is organizational politics is once again declined more than it ever has because it now proves that a fine media campaign to find direct mail campaign and hopefully with what organizational support you can get. Can put it

over. It makes organization the organization or the regular Republican organization less effective and less needed. It's a shame but that's what's happened to both political parties. Now just a few moments ago we saw O'Sullivan make his first I think it was his first appearance of the evening to go before a crowd of his supporters and concede and say that he'd just gotten off the phone with Tom Cain. We haven't seen Mayor Cramer yet tonight. And it's getting late. You suppose he's making some phone calls. I think that Pat is probably looking at Bergen County and what's happening and what type of vote is coming in. And undoubtedly I would I would feel that he very shortly will be here. I don't believe that as of right now there's any concession thought of him in any way shape or form. The very difficult part of this election is the favorite son situation and that's why the early. I mean by that. Well I mean for example in Burlington County your favorite son Barry Parker in Mercer County had Jack Rafferty. It's very difficult in this election to try to reach out because you're actually not looking at winning some of those places but coming in second and then as high as you possibly can. So trying to balance

that out. The. Earlier when they forecast a vote which is what I would think was an impossible type of thing to do because of this crazy situation of nine candidates and whatever is going on on the other hand we must remember that the guy who is winning right now Tom Kaine is sharing his favorites on county with another Republican candidate. Actually Sharon I think we have to live while. Peter's political director of the Kramer campaign thanks very much. Thank you. Steve. Thank you very much Steve. I want to get back to you can't get off the hook that easily Alan. What said Jim Florio. And be honest about his greatest weakness running against a Democratic candidate. I think Jim has two things. Number one is he's going to have to readapt from the rising concerns. When you go to Washington a little bit removed from the state of New Jersey and I think he's going to have to come back and prove that he has every state issue at his fingertips and is really knowledge of the second one is to adopt once again and to prove that he can convert his legislative experience which has been brilliant what he has to prove that that is the kind of background that is going to make him a good executive. He has to convince people that he hasn't got the executive and of course he

might have just been lost and that Washington pays for one or two things it turns out. All right Allan Carter and Hayes The clock will be back to you later. We're going to go to Kent Manahan now and get brought up to date on the gubernatorial results and anything else can. OK we have some of our latest numbers in to give you and we'll take a look at those starting first with the Republican gubernatorial contenders. Tom Kane is out in front with 28 percent of the districts reporting in with thirty three thousand eight hundred eighty votes followed by Pat Kramer with just over 27 Vout thousand votes and Paul Sullivan coming in third with just over 17000 votes. Jim Wallwork with thirteen thousand six hundred eighty five votes. Barry Parker was just a little over a thousand votes and Anthony imperially with almost 5000 votes reported in was 28 percent of the districts reporting Jack Rafferty three thousand five hundred eighty two votes and Richard McGlenn 1777 votes. And we'll take a look at the Republican numbers that

the Democratic numbers rather we just had the Republican numbers. Jim Florio has pulled out to a commanding lead with 29 percent of the districts reporting in Florio now has 47000 181 votes followed by Ken Gibson. Newark mayor with twenty seven thousand one hundred eighty four votes in Jersey City Mayor Tommy Smith coming in third with just about 25000 votes there. Breaux was just a little over 24000 votes and Joe Merlino with 23000 483 votes. John Degnan. With twenty one thousand five hundred twenty five votes. Again this is 29 percent of the districts reporting in Pat Dodd with a little over 6000 votes and Klein with just a little over 4000 votes formers Assemblywoman Rather Barbara McConnell with almost 4000 votes. Thirty eight hundred eleven votes. Twenty nine percent of the districts reporting in William Hamilton was 17 964 votes.

Herbert Buehler was just a little over a thousand votes in Rosemont Yankel so with a little over a thousand votes and we have one last candidate with 29 percent of the districts coming in. Still a man she has five hundred and fifty votes and that's the way the tally goes right now with about 29 percent of the Democratic districts reporting back to you. Thank you very much. We're working. We're going to try to talk to Senator Bill Bradley who I think we've got on the line here. Bill can you hear me. I guess you've heard the results in New Jersey. It looks like Jim Florio is the easy winner in the Democratic primary. What's your first reaction. I would think that Jim Florio is an outstanding congressman from New Jersey and I think he's going to be a very strong candidate in the fall election. What do you think is likely to be the key issue here. Tom Cain came forward with a tax program not unlike that of Ronald Reagan on a much smaller scale it was certainly tied to that. Now you're in charge in some sense of the Republican excuse me the Democrats in the Senate

responding to the Reagan economic policies. Have you looked at the Cain program. Look good program and great. News. OK. Got to be economic. It's got to be. Whether. You're losing 1 hours. Of. Our economy in the northeastern state. We're having a little problem technically. We're going to come back to you. Bill Bradley sorry to do this to you. All right. We can now go to Tom Kean headquarters and talk to Jim McQueen who though I believe has Congressman Jim Carter with them who was an early Cain supporter did an unusual thing. Are you ready Jim. Yes we are. As a matter of fact they're just making an announcement now about one thing about the campaign. I'm not sure but we have Congressman Jim quarter who is here and he was the as you said the chairman of the campaign. You have a meeting with some of the aides and the big chiefs of the campaign here.

What's your assessment at the moment. Well they're very very thrilled about the outcome. I think they were confident throughout the entire campaign actually Tom Kaine has received a great deal of support very balanced support throughout the state of New Jersey. Obviously when you come into the campaign evening it starts out with a great deal of apprehension. But right now you get that feeling of anticipation that something great is going to happen. I understand that one of the opponents has now conceded in favor of John McCain I believe that was both Sullivan and they were very very thrilled that Tom ran an excellent race that was well balanced and I think it's a good message for Republicans and all New Jersey. How do you think the public financing thing fit into this with the way it is now with Cain. Well obviously after the election is over I suppose you can look at public financing from two ways. Number one I think those people that would criticize it would simply say that it proliferated the number of candidates. There is no need to have that many some candidates that really never had a good significant chance of winning state in because of public financing. On the other hand

those two candidates I understand that rejected public financing didn't do that well so I don't think it carries any type of negative connotation to the candidate or what. What now. We understand that the candidate is on his way over here and you have any more information on what that is. Well Tom is on his way here I understand he'll be here shortly and we'll have something good to say so we'll just stand by and wait for Tom to come. OK. All right back to you. All with Susan Thomases we had to cut off your candidate. Go Bradley. Susan I apologize. We're going to try to reconnect with him and with Jeff Bell who had a hand I think in fashioning Tom Cain's tax program let's talk about this Reaganomics is that going to be the issue in the fall Jim Florio is a Democrat from the Congress. He's been involved a bit in trying to stop the Reagan program from going through. Tom Kaine has had Jack Kemp and others involved in this campaign. Susan you think that will be a New Jersey. Fight. First of all it's a pleasure to be here to the right of Jeffrey Bell. But I am only physically to the right of him. I think the campaign has painted itself into a corner.

I think that part of Reagan economics is on the federal level. And one of the things that it's saying to the states we urge him to say to state if you want the services local community and you have to make that choice yourself. You have to decide yourself whether even to have the federal government will no longer make those choices for you. And one that no longer supply the funds. And so we in New Jersey have to choose whether or not the federal cuts we're going to no longer pursue public transportation that we're no longer going to pursue a vigorous program of higher education. And I think that Tom came by saying he's going to try to institute Reagan economics on the state level has put himself into a corner because I think people in New Jersey really do want those services. Now I understand Jack if you start arguing whether you're going to prove a point it's kind of an issue. And my question is do you think that's going to be the kind of campaign we have a fight about the Reagan economic policies carried over at a somewhat different forum to New Jersey. Absolutely and I really couldn't be more delighted. We can talk about right wing and left wing but really the issue is the people. Can the people manage to keep a larger

share of their income and invest it wisely both at the national level and the state level. There was a time when I thought that a federal tax cut might lead to tax increases at the state and local level. But a reading of history indicates that that really isn't true when taxes are going up at the federal level they're generally going up at the state level as well there's no trade off. And now I think the trend is going to be the reverse and Tom Kane has put himself in a position to be a leader that trend at the state level. Now this brings me back to that topic which I've talked to both of you about separately earlier which with the television commercials we mentioned that I'd mention that again because it seems to me that. The insidious thing about commercials is they get into people's head whether they want them to or not if you want to watch television you have to be exposed to it over the air television to what the commercials are. Tom Kane did come with the tax commercial in 1977 different tax fight burn and Bateman's spent a lot of money clashing over the airwaves on taxes. That was very substantive. We've got some tape I think of some of the commercials that ran in this

primary. And if if we're ready to go to that tape now I think we could comment on on what people tried to do and what that reflects about this approach. Let let's say they say let's go to the videotape. You know my name. I passed a hundred and twenty pieces of major legislation including the law allowing seniors to buy any prescription for $2. Also I'm the original sponsor of the plan Protection Act and I just introduced a bill to restrict the sale of deadly handgun. I'm the president of the New Jersey State Senate and often serve as acting governor. And with your help we can do more for governor Merlino Democrat. Don't leave New Jersey without him as governor. What sort of man graduates with honors from West Point. A man of leadership integrity intelligence. I met him like Jim Wallwork Republican governor from New Jersey. Jim is an experienced senator businessman a family man and a dedicated conservative. After West Point he graduated first in his class at the

Command and General Staff College just like Dwight David Eisenhower New Jersey's Jim Wallwork principles courage common sense a heartfelt political endorsement. I'm Henry Hudson not the Explorer as a dog. When I got shot down by the docks my life was saved by the mayor Tommy Smith. We've been together ever since. When Tommy moves around the city he gets close enough to people and problems to get things done. In my opinion New Jersey needs a guy like this guy that started this mess. Democrats see tragedy again and again. Bill Hamilton has spoken out on issues few other leaders have the courage to face the Trenton Times Hamilton can stand alone oppose actions that are unwise. But New York Times Hamilton is considered by many to be the ablest member of the legislature. New Jersey magazine called him intelligent independent conscientious and twice picked him as one of the state's best to home news. Hamilton is forthright and courageous a leader when it was safer to be a follower.

Bill Hamilton the Democrat from New Jersey governor. OK we we just heard some commercials which basically reflects I think an attempt to introduce the candidate to people not so much to get at issues but a lot of money is spent on that. The question I would ask both of you are I think are pretty solid on this. Is it worth spending and do the people come away from those commercials with anything worth having on a primary campaign with as many candidates as there were in this primary. It is very difficult and as I said earlier take I think it's constituent base that counts and ability to build and that constituent base when you're talking about a 13 candidate field. However November the candidates are going head to head one against one and in such a race I think that issues are going to be important and that television will be important for defining and focusing people on those issues and I look forward to a vigorous issues campaign in the television commercial. OK Jeff Bell I'm going to ask Susan the question next year somehow put not just an advisory role but you're put completely in charge of Tom Kames television campaign in terms of issues and substance and everything else. What are the things you want to get across. What are the three or four things you spend a

lot of money on. Well I think the main thing is that in New Jersey after going from a low tax state to a high tax state in just 15 years has to get back on the road the other way and to cut taxes means to bring in jobs to increase productivity and to heal New Jersey's economy. Another issue that was emphasized in the primary that I think Tom will continue to emphasize is the issue of crime. The need for more effective sentencing policy. The need for restoration of capital punishment. I think that will continue to be a major thing and a third general theme that I would urge him to emphasize and one which he is identified with is this general idea of populism of returning power and decision making power to the people. That means a shift in resources from state government to local government. And it also means strong support for a process of initiative and referendum. OK Susan you're in the same spot for Jim Florio the media television party that you're not even gonna take the 15 percent commission. What would you put on the air. What would you talk about.

I don't think it's I wouldn't want to speak for Jim for you or for Jim for his campaign because I think it's to be left to him to frame the campaign. However I think that it's really at very very important to understand that the Northeast is different than the rest of the country. The Northeast is not. The Northeast is different than the rest of the country in terms of we have infrastructure and I'm going to interrupt you for Bill Bradley which I think we can get away with. Senator we're back I'm sorry about that transmission breaking up we were talking about here with Susan Thomases who I think you know and Jeff Bell who I know you know very well about whether this campaign would be a kind of mini Reagan Democratic race. What's your feeling about that if you were you come back from Washington to campaign for Jim Florio and if you do what you're talking about. And we're having that same problem. He's just breaking up jersey on our

blog. All the way. All the way up. OK I'm afraid we're going to have to cut off this again. This is not our night. We're connecting by Washington by phone. You think Jeff Bell was reflects something about our Washington connection Susan. Well first of all Bill so seriously makes it even harder to lie. Sorry about that. We'll keep trying. I think that we have certain infrastructure problems in a state like New Jersey in order to. Deal with our energy problems and other problems. There are certain things that people are going to continue to expect the state government to do for them. And I think that the issues that will be addressed. One is how state government can best do that. And I don't think that the discussion on the tax cut versus no tax cut I think it's how is the government going to provide and compensate for the fact that there are going to be major federal cuts and that does beg federal cuts are going to negatively impact New Jersey.

Let me just interrupt to say that we have John Degnan has conceded to Jim Florio at 10:15 and do more work or just conceded a few minutes ago to Tom Kaine. We'll have a tape of that later. Ron those concession statements. I think what we what we'd like to do now is to get caught up on some of the numbers in the gubernatorial race if the ready can. Do. Thank you. Come on. We'll take the Republicans first and we'll take a look at the numbers and I think we've got about 35. Yes 35 percent of the districts reporting in Tom Cain still way out in front with forty one thousand seven hundred fifty eight votes. Pat Kramer coming in second with thirty one thousand just a little over thirty one thousand votes in both then with twenty one thousand seven hundred and eight votes. Jim Wallwork sixteen thousand five hundred ninety six votes Barry Parker was just a little over nine thousand votes. And Jack Cafferty with just a little over six thousand sixty

262 votes. Anthony imperially with 35 percent of the districts reporting it has about fifty seven hundred votes and Richard McGlenn with just about 2000 votes a little over 2000 votes. We'll take a look now at the Democratic numbers. And the gubernatorial contenders with 39 percent of the districts reporting in Florio has moved way out with a big lead. Sixty six thousand six hundred twenty five votes. New York mayor Ken Gibson coming in second with thirty five thousand seven hundred ninety four votes and Bob Roe was just a little over 33000 votes. Tommy Smith 28000 780 votes and Joe Merlino twenty eight thousand six hundred and ten votes John Degnan 25000 almost 26000 votes. Again this is 39 percent of the districts reporting in fact by a little over 8000 votes and Klein just about

6000 votes there for the former Human Services Commissioner and Barbara McConnell 50 100 votes. Fifty one hundred ninety four votes. William Hamilton Thirty eight hundred votes. Herbert Buehler just about 1300 votes Rose. Eleven hundred and forty four votes. And still a man with seven hundred and sixty eight votes. And we have some other numbers in a few of the key legislative districts to report to you. The Senate Republican race going on in District 24. That's the district where which is made up of Sussex and Morron counties in part. And that's the scene of the battle going on between Senator Wayne Dumont and incumbent Assemblyman Donald Albany's Dumont now with 26 percent of the polling places in that district according in about eighteen hundred seventy five votes. Albany's with eleven hundred and ninety three votes will move over to the Democrats. And I'd like to take a look at District Four. OK.

This is the Senate. Primary race in district five rather sorry which includes parts of Camden and Gloucester counties. And this is the contest going on between incumbent Assemblyman Frank shack and our information tells us that Chuck does have a pretty good lead there. OK. No. OK. Just the opposite of that I had some information earlier that said he had a commanding lead but I take that back. Walter Rand is in the lead there with twenty five hundred votes. And Frank Schock is is trailing with 1300 votes and that's 31 percent of the polling places in that district reporting in. And we'll move over to. The assembly race in District 20. This is an assembly Democratic primary race. That area in District 20 includes the borough of red in Middlesex and part of Union counties including part of Union County including the city of Elizabeth here. Here a couple incumbent Assemblyman Raymond Lesniak is is winning with nine thousand three hundred and sixteen votes. Fifty six

percent of the polling areas reporting in and some may from what I understand is out of that race completely. That's the information that I have. And Lesniak I believe is claiming victory for himself and also for Thomas Jefferson in this district. And that's the way. OK that's the way the numbers are right now in those Senate and Assembly races. And Dick I have a question I'd like to ask if you can hear me. John Degnan ran an extensive ad campaign as Jim Florio did. But what happened. He's coming. He's trailing way behind he's got Gibson and other people that were not expected to be out in front. What was the difference there what happened. Let's talk about the difference in those media campaigns and what effect they had for just a second and answered Ken's question which is some of these people spent a lot of money on media. John Degnan Joe Merlino. Jim Florio. Do you see any significant difference in the way they spent their money how they might spend it more wisely I guess. I as I said earlier I think that the money and in all cases really was quite

wisely spend. However John Degnan did not start with a constituent base. And he you really cannot feel the constituent base in a primary election. Media are really no use media very effectively and his media expanded his constituent base but he began with a very strong constituent base both Florio and Roe began with strong constituent bases and I think that that was a big difference in this race as it is often in a multi-person primary. OK Jeff. I think actually Susan thermoses I think you and I would agree is probably the best campaign manager in the business. People believe that talk about the politics like talking about issues we've talked about television. What's the political situation for Tom Cain now where is the week where does he have to put it together or what. What kind of a campaign does he have to mount to run strongly in the Republican Party in a general election. You did that yourself under difficult circumstances you'd beaten a longtime incumbent. Clifford Case and yet you did better than a lot of people thought you'd do in that race.

Well I think Tom is not as well-known in South Jersey. He has been a North Jersey candidate for a lot of years based in Essex County with a lot of friends and union in Bergen and elsewhere and he needs to get more familiar with with South Jersey. I think on the other hand. His primary left him fairly strong with most other constituent groups within the party. He ran a generalized campaign. He ran a campaign that attempted to build a consensus around an economic idea the basic tax cutting supply side idea. And. Unless I'm very much mistaken he is going to start with a significant lead in the general election. Part of that I guess is an afterglow from President Reagan's popularity. And Tom's identification with that both as a Republican and as somebody who was trying to reinforce the Reagan economic approach. But I really think that heading into the general election Tom is going to start with a solid lead and a chance to build on that lead by means of the specific issues that he's committed himself to them.

I think that might be a fair assessment but Republicans have a way of starting elections in New Jersey with leads particularly gubernatorial and then seeing them dissipate. To do that to accomplish that feat what is Florio has to do politically what are his weaknesses. What's the task ahead for him. I see the real task if Jim Florio is figuring out how he's going to carry Verdean County. I think that one of the difficult numbers that comes out of this from the point of view of Democrats I'm not maybe I'm prejudiced because I'm from Martin County in terms of the importance of Martin County in a general election. The Bergen County desk has the largest vote in the general election. It has a large number of independent voters that have independent meaning not just people who do not vote in primaries the people who are independent minded. I think that. That they are well educated voters. And he ran four stories at this point running fourth in Bergen County behind Degnan roll and rolling out. And he's going to have to get in there and get himself better known in the county. I am convinced however that if he gets himself better known in the county just better

known that he will be able to carry the state of New Jersey because New Jersey voters tend to be very intelligent voters which is why they have voted for government. And I think that that is really going to be one of the big issues in this campaign. And I think that if they have a choice in choosing government and I believe that government can and does provide services that they will burden County voters for example supported when it burned very strongly and supported the state income tax very very strongly. And I think that Tom Kane is going to have to do some backtracking on his own early positions and I don't think that that may sit well with many of the independent voters in New Jersey who know that you don't get something for nothing. OK we're going to take a break. Susan Thomases and Jeff Bell on NJ PDV here and we'll be right back with more gubernatorial results and the legislative numbers are coming in and we'll be summarizing those for you. We'll be right back. OK.

We're back now with two new guests. Actually something old something we've got to herald how this is becoming a familiar figure. Governor Burns chief of staff his chief of staff and Senator Carl Yates from Burlington County who has just joined us. Charlie I understand that the numbers are creepy a little bit closer on the Democratic side for you was the clear winner by the votes broken up in a number of places computers are down in Essex County and I believe that to give his campaign manager is going to see a judge about getting an injunction and holding things up until those computers could be put back operating. What's your reaction. Burlington County was overwhelmingly for Jim Florio. What do you think. Well I don't think that's unexpected. GUILFOYLE those worked in South Florida for many many years and certainly he's very very well known in Burlington County and very well thought of now. Do you think he can take that kind of support and go statewide with it. Since since World War Two a surprising number of new jersey governors have started from a base in South Jersey governor tale's an example Governor Crist. Even if I go to those who think

South Jersey the Burlington County sir. So let me change the subject. Harold do you chime in on this now. Well Charlie it's one of the most respected legislators in Trenton you're leaving the legislature for business reasons. Bunch of legislators ran for governor some others are retiring you know bursty Wallwork will be gone up very hard and will be gone. Bill Hamilton will be gone. Barbara McConnell will be gone. Why doesn't anybody who is any good. And these are strong legislators who want to serve in the legislature. Well let me let me begin by saying I don't think you should regard or ones in regard to changes necessarily something not to be desired. It might be good for the legislature. I think many of us who are no longer intending to serve came in about the same time in the early 70s. We've been through a great many crises together. And I think there's an element to be perfectly frank about burnout. We've said what we have to say. We have to go back home and think about things for a few years.

You've got to react to that. All the people that run it. Well you really lose. I think the quality of the of the legislation and I'm not saying that because I was here but that's the way I feel about Charlie and Billy Hamilton. Jay and on the Senate side and Pat Dodd. Who. Ran the also for governor and Barry Parker. So you're going to see a major change over in the legislature not only on the Senate side of the also on the Senate side. I just think the burnt out right now becomes a senator. So he leaves the shop doesn't return. Ray Lesniak tonight ran a very strong race even though he didn't get the organization line. So you got to see some new faces as well as some new blood. But it's a change between the Senate and the assembly. So you're not going to have new faces. You to have people who understand the process and work with the process before it really goes and I really feel that George is really loose and that the quality guys right now. I want to come back and talk about that. We've we've got a tape now of John Declan's confession statement

and I think we're going to roll it now and see what the former attorney general had to say this evening. Here we go to the Degnan tape. I'd like to stand here and tell you that it doesn't hurt but that would be breaking faith with what we stood for in this campaign which was a commitment to complete candor and honesty with the people of New Jersey in an especially difficult time. And that spirit let me confess it hurts like hell but long after the disappointment of tonight it's faded. I hope that all of us can look back on tonight and say that what was conceded was only an election outcome not the merit and the wisdom of the things we stood for. The Democratic Party. No matter who carries its colors cannot reject new jersey must not withdraw from its commitment to progressive government. Certainly the Democratic Party would risk this honor and deserved defeat should it renounce that commitment. Especially now as Washington sounds retreat from the fight for a better

society in a vain pursuit for better weapons. The election this fall will determine the course of the public life and to a major extent the private life of our state for the next four years perhaps longer. It will occur at a time of great change in our country and so will bear significance beyond our state. The political fashion of the moment seems to favor a merciless renunciation of government's obligations to those still struggling struggling upward in our society. The young the poor the overburdened middle class seeks even to renounce our debt to those who have worn the burden of the past. Our cherished elderly I reject those notions. I know the Democratic Party will reject them but I recognize that if our party is to retain the confidence of voters in New Jersey and to regain that confidence nationally we must redefine and make clear what we stand for. We must make progressive government and our party relevant for a society in which abundance and sustained growth can no longer be taken for granted. We must make it relevant for a society

in which crime and violence at home manage costs as much as it does any foreign foe. I congratulate Jim Florio on his victory tonight. And I look forward to working with him in fashioning a Democratic Party for the 1980s that will remain the best hope of the people of New Jersey and of the nation. And I love you all. That was an elegant speech by John Degnan it must be a sad night for him but it's worth remembering that he's 36 years old and I'm sure he'll be heard from again. Now we're going to hear from Ken Manahan again about some of the legislative results. Candy you ready. Return. Yes I have some numbers for you. Let's take a look at a couple of the contested Republican Senate races. We'll start first with District 4. That includes parts of Camden Gloucester and Atlanta counties. Connie Rocio of Laurel Springs and Frank snus who had the party backing were both seeking the endorsement there. And right now with 13 percent of the vote in

Rocio is 284 and Smyth's with 195. Let's move down to District 22 where we have a concession. The race there was between incumbent Republican Donald DiFrancesco who is the winner and his opponent Anthony Quinn Kohli has conceded in that race we've been told and this is the way the numbers are DeFrancesco 30 280 votes and can Colie 425. Let's take a look at some of the contested Republican assembly races. A couple of key races we have some numbers on. We'll start with district four school board member Robert de Matisse and Anthony Distefano. We're running with the GOP backing against Richard stuff and Richard Brenner both of Gloucester Township. We have 13 percent of the polling areas in that district supporting DeStefano out in front with 163 antibodies with a hundred and sixty two. And we'll move down to District 22 which includes part of suburban Essex and union counties including some 24 percent of the polling areas in that district

reporting in her first term. Incumbent Assemblyman Robert Franks who was active in the Cain campaign and backed by both the count by both County GOP organizations that's Essex and union. OK we're going to interrupt right now to go to Pat Kramers headquarters. Go ahead. From Pat Kramer headquarters I think we're a lot. Steve. Kramer headquarters that the mayor has just arrived. To. The. Supporters. They let him make his concession stage. At the Meadowlands. Of course. The. Pictures tell the story. It. You everybody. Like. You are incredible. Wow.

After that roar we've got to take another look at the results. This is. I don't know if you heard that. Shout from the crowd was right on it. For next year. Already. Come on guys. Thank you everybody. Thank you. This is a little different speech for the Kramers we never made one like this before and. How do you express it.

How do you say to the people who do what you all have done faces. Yes. And with us in the beginning and others we met and became so close with as the campaigns went on and we come to tonight the decision of our Republican voters is clear Tommy is their choice. There's obviously a move a little further to my right. And so shall it be. We wish him every success and we'll do whatever we can to try to ensure that victory this November on behalf of our Republican Party. But how do we really say it to all of you. Yes. Hundreds

even thousands more out there that have done so much on our behalf in what they believe in in terms of the positions and sensitivities reasons we made the choice to offer ourselves from Mariel on these three spectacular campaigners. There was another graceful concession speech from Pat Kramer. I don't want to be mean but I want to reassure you that we're not going to do all 19 concession speech tonight that one more time than we have. I also should point out that CBS has projected the biggest primary turnout ever for over six hundred fifteen thousand votes maybe six twenty five on the Democratic side. That's a surprise. Why don't you go ahead with those numbers on the legislative side OK I'll back up and pick up where I left off. District 22 which includes part of suburban Essex in Union County. And there we have

the incumbent Assemblyman Robert Frank's running with Melbourne mayor Morein Ogden and mountainside restaurant owner Bruce Geiger is also running Franks right now with 28 percent of the polling areas in that district reporting in. Frank says 1336 and Ogden with three thousand four hundred fifty nine. OK. And we see Geiger trailing way behind with 706 votes. Let's move on to district 23 and take a look at what's happening there we have a winner there I believe. Carl why Dale. Incumbent Assemblyman Carl weedle and his running mate Richard Zimmer of Flemington who had the party backing apparently have claimed victory for themselves in this district with 48 percent of the polling places reporting and Zimmer has three thousand seven hundred sixty four and why Dell just about the same. Three thousand seven hundred and twenty eight OK and we'll take a look at the other contenders there Shanahan who and Larousse who were running against the the y Del Zimmer ticket they have 17 171 votes for Shannahan Larue 4300 and 72 votes.

Let's move over and take a look at the open Mailer. I forgot one I'm sorry. OK. And Mailer is way behind there with 774 votes. He was also on the ballot. OK. He was on the ballot. That's right. But he did drop out of the race. Someone just reminded me of that. OK. All right let's move over and take a look at the contested Democratic assembly races in District 4. No I'm being told we're going to look at assembly district 40 I'm sorry which includes That's in the Republican assembly contest which includes part of Bergen and a small portion of Passaic County and here in crumblin Republican Assemblyman Walter Kern and Kerry Edwards who's the assistant minority whip for being challenged by Republican Werner how plea of Ridgewood and I believe and Edwards have won here and they will be seeking their third term in the assembly. The numbers we have so far Edwards ten thousand five hundred ninety 94 and Kurn with ten thousand four hundred thirty two. We'll take a look at how the numbers coming in 1033 votes. Now let's

move over and take a look at some of the contested Democratic assembly races beginning with District 4 which includes part of Camden Atlantic and Gloucester counties here incumbent Assemblyman Dennis Riley of Blackwood who's been in the assembly since 1979 has teamed up with contractor Anthony Marsala of sual Angelo Romeo is also running. He's a former freeholder from Newfield Barcella right now with 2134 rotes Riley with 2094 votes. OK they possibly looked like the winners there with Romeo at nine hundred forty five. That's 18 percent of the vote in that district. Moving on to District 6 which includes part of Camden County here County back Democrat Bruce McNall and Francis Orlando are running against Temple University student Tim Riley of Collingswood and attorney Thomas Segal. All right. We don't have any numbers in that district to report to you. We're taking a look at the other names also Riley and Seagle. Again no numbers to report. Let's move over to district 20. This is the contested Democratic assembly

races in District 20 which includes the borough of red in Middlesex and part of Union County including the city of Elizabeth your incumbent Assemblyman Raymond Lesniak who was taken off the party line and replaced by John sir may is running. Also incumbent Assemblyman Thomas neverin and Lesniak is claiming victory for himself in Denver and in this district was to a 62 percent rather of the polling places reporting in in that district Lesniak with ten thousand five hundred fifty nine endeavoring with eight thousand four hundred and eighty votes. And sir may. Five thousand four forty six votes trailing behind. We'll move on to district 31. Here. It looks like we don't have any results to report to you. This is a district which includes part of Hudson and including the city of Bayonne and part of Jersey City Democratic Assemblyman Joseph Duryea and Joseph Charles are facing incumbent Democratic assemblyman Charles Mays and Gerald Fitzpatrick. We don't have any numbers on that district Let's move down to District 32 that includes part of Hudson including Secaucus and

part of Jersey City and here incumbent Democratic assemblyman Robert Janice cesky and Thomas Cowan both of Jersey City are facing Democrats John McCauley and Irene Zabriski who are both from Jersey City also again. All right we're moving down the district. We're moving down to District 33 which includes part I guess we don't have any numbers in 32 and 33 that area includes part of Hudson County. OK. And Hoboken Union City in some parts of Jersey City and this is Chris Jackman's race it looks like we don't have any results to tell you about there. OK. All right. That's it. Thank you Candy. Well we'll get some of those numbers later on. I want to come back to this discussion you know it used to be chief of staff for Ken Gibson. Carol before you were chief of staff for governor bird and in fact and Ken Gibson may finish second in this race if he dies which would be a big surprise. What's going to interest him about the Democrats. I think Gibson is going to look at a budget.

Not only on the federal side but also on the state side. And the Reagan proposed budget has a drastic effect upon the city's social services people's needs. And I think that Gibson has always tried to address that. When he is president U.S. Conference of Mayors and that's one desire he has and that's one desire he's got to look at. So I think he's going to watch very closely. The state's preparation of the budget. That's actually meeting tomorrow. That's not an issue that's going to go away. So I think I've got to cut right in because Jim Florio is coming down. I think we're going to be able to get him live with his acceptance. They were going down a cherry hill now to Congressman Ford headquarters. I. Mean.

I. Know. He has prepared about a 10 minute long acceptance speech. I'll take the cheers of campaign workers first begins. Ladies and gentlemen. Your attention please. Ladies and gentlemen.

I'd like to read you. A statement. Message we have just received from the Honorable Governor Rendell back on. Message. Dressed to Congressman Jim Florio here Jim gratulations on a great personal victory. I. Don't. Equate the governor's fun.

The fact that it was a product of hard work and an impressive congressional record gives the Democratic Party every reason for optimism this fall.