190: Brendan Byrne; New Jersey Tonight; 190; T-820; Brendan Byrne

An. At the close of his first term as governor it looked as if taxes were going to be his undoing. Voters were furious with him his popularity plummeted. It seemed a second term was out. Jim Florio story no. Brendan Byrnes and he of course went on to be elected and the Democrats of 1991 turned it around some insight from former Governor Brendan Byrne He's lived in New Jersey tonight.

BRENDAN BYRNE governor from 1973 to 1981 is with us tonight live from New York. The telephone number to call is 1 800 3 2 3 8 5 2. That's 1 800 3 2 3 8 8 5 2. Governor Byrne Welcome to the show. Nice to be back. Nice savvy here. Jim Florio got another two years to go but this Tuesday's election is largely seen as a referendum on his agenda. GOP State Chair Bob Franks calls the election Florio as Judgment Day. Is Franks being overly dramatic here or accurate should one or both Houses go to the GOP. Well first of all I think Franks is a very shrewd politician and and he's got no downside in saying that because normally speaking the incumbent governor sees some

slippage in the midterm election and I think that this year is no different that that Jim Florio will see some slippage and is it is a lot of these in both the assembly and the Senate some slippage or a lot of slipping let's think that's that's hard to say I if you had asked me that question three weeks ago I would say that probably see a lot of slippage. But I think what we've been seeing in the last three weeks is first of all a bunch of television commercials which nobody nobody really believes I mean when they make these exaggerated claims and I think that I think the money spent on television commercials by the candidates has been largely wasted this campaign because it hasn't been effective. And when you when you try to say whatever is wrong with this state this is a Jim Florio was for when the fact is we're in a

national recession which people more and more are blaming Bush for it when people are looking at other states where we've got the same kind of troubles that we've got here in Jersey. I think that this is there's a credibility gap there. So you know I think voters by the broad claim it's his fault it's all his fault they're more savvy than that. Yes I am a little cry I really think so and I think that about my campaign in 77 proved was that voters are a lot smarter than you give him credit for. And I want to the voters in 77 and I told them about the tax. And I told them what I had done and why we needed it. And don't forget that even though I was criticized for that tax in 77. You can just let that go if you like Governor I think you should be able to hear the calls if I have had just that little piece OK. Somebody's going to get justice for me I think. There we go.

That even though even even though we had that criticism people the people who criticized and held office for the next eight years after I left never once made a serious effort to repeal the state income tax that that was an act of the ministration. OK let's go to the telephones Middlesex and Larry are live in New Jersey tonight. Governor. Hi Larry good to see you. I missed the show that you were a part of it but. I think you. Answer my question about have daddy think for you doing it do you think you'll get re-elected 93. As I say I have who knows what's going to happen in 93 but the real question is do I think that because Florio was a governor and recommended and had an act that a couple billion dollars with a new taxes will hurt them in 93 and the answer is

sure it will hurt them in 93 but I think the vast majority of voters are ready to listen. Especially a gubernatorial campaign to the candidates and what they say about the issue and don't forget somebody has to come up against Florio and say. That's not what you should have done and here's what you should have done. You recall in 77 Governor let me interrupt you don't you don't think that the Republicans who had a lot to say all along since his tax package was enacted last year you don't think that what they're saying is an adequate rebuttal. No it's about a fact. You see newspaper criticism of the state now that what the but the Republicans are doing is to criticize but not really offering a realistic alternative. So he had no choice in light of the recession and in light of the ambitious plan he has had to do for no.

You know he has some choices some choices but they were tough choices. He had some choices of not funding education or funding education he has some choice of balancing the budget or not balancing the budget. And he made the he made the responsible decisions. How would you characterize Jim Florio as a guy I think who realize it took him a long time to become governor that now that he is governor he wants to he wants to leave the office with a set of accomplishments. Right you know right or wrong in the voter's view he wants to he wants to solve the problems of New Jersey and doesn't want to coast. And is this some irritation with voters because he has met those problems head on. And and I think his job now is to as he's doing I think is to explain to the voters what he's doing why he did it what the alternatives are what kind of a debt structure we had what kind of commitment to education we have and want to

have and I think he's got a logical story to tell. OK let's go back to the telephones chalk in Vineland you're on with the governor Byrne Good evening governor. I have one quick question. First how are things in line. So everything's OK thank you. Did you fake an orgasm. Oh you know I thought those hollowing calls were oh at the you know. But they're still out there sorry about that one governor. We're going to go back to the telephones now and go to Jerome in Darby Jerome got about I want to be you know I do have a question or wonder who many people know. Then again like the Democrats and Republicans you've got to call you down and they promise that and I remember you were governor and I know that you tried your best to do exactly what you said you would do when you when you became governor Bill like the governor of Pennsylvania like one form of government and I want to put a dent in the promise didn't promise that then that would

be that Democrats putting down from the government really probably just a back and forth that oh my god I explain that to me. So we sense of voter dissatisfaction your empty promises governor I think I think that that's partly politicians view of the voters you know as a politician think that the voters want syrup. Type of campaign that they don't want to be faced with the truth and then to some extent that's so and and I'm not an exception to that. After all what I did in 1977 when I went to the voters is I went to the voters with an income tax that was in place. I explained why I put it in place I defended it. I asked people to come up with an alternative to it. The alternative was on satisfactory. And it may have been a very people say my campaign and 77 was the last real campaign on issues and now we have all these phony

issues we have people promising to cut billions of dollars from the state budget without identifying a dollar of it. And I think this is cynicism. Cynicism this year that I've not seen before were very responsible people are saying gee I'm going to go out and vote today. Governor you've said that Jim Florio has had to make the tough choices and he's made them and now it's his job to get the message across. There was an article earlier this week in The Philadelphia Inquirer about property taxes and it said essentially that according to its own computer analysis in 85 percent of New Jersey's municipalities either the taxes were going down or if they were going up they were going up at the slowest pace since the late 1970s. And yet the rub is for the Democrats the voters don't know that. Two separate polls record of Hackensack in The Star-Ledger Eagleton poll show that voters still think their taxes their property taxes are going up. Democrats must be pulling their hair out.

You have a First of all the handicaps Jim Florio has in this campaign is it he's not a candidate. If if I had not been a candidate in 1977. I couldn't go out there and explain and defend what I did. So Jim Florio is not running this year and has not had a lot of exposure in this campaign so he hasn't gotten to the people to defend this program as some of the candidates are running away from that tax as an issue I think they would have been better off if they had defended it asked for time to examine the alternatives shown water for the alternatives might be and gone to the people head on. OK let's go back to the telephones in Middlesex Larry or on New Jersey tonight. There Larry.

OK I guess we're having a little trouble with the phones we're just going to move right along. Developers have long memories do you think back to the question of trying to get across what it is you're trying to do. The property tax issue might be a little nebulous because let's face it a lot of people don't pay them directly they pay in through mortgage bills it's harder to keep track of it and one of the ironies by the way is when you as a governor give property tax relief to somebody in a given municipality the mayor and the council and that municipality takes the credit for that tax relief never gives credit to the governor or the legislature for giving the state appropriations to relieve the property tax. They just want to take the credit for another blow and that's that's politics. But then on the other hand voters do have a long memory. Do they not when it comes to raising the sales tax or income taxes. Well it depends on the tax I think. I think voters tend to have long memories of things that they have to pay on a repeated basis. If you really did renew your drivers license every year and I've increased your driver's license fee

you remember me every year and people remember the fact people talk to me after I left office in around the 15th of April when they pay their income tax and I meet another street and shake the finger at me. You know reminding me that I'm responsible for what they were doing in 1985. OK more telephone calls Marlton Larry let's see if we get those lines go on. Larry there. Yes. Hi you're on the air governor Bern how I got. My name is Larry Reed have you got a show to be on radio or television with that right. You've got a great voice you ought to be on radio or television with that voice. We appreciate that from actual specialists in Kansas City and act responsibly. Fine gentleman you have a question for the

governor. Yeah I can even begin to count how many people in the sportsman steps of standing around. I'm not sure why I think I think the governor of Florida can be for the right to own a gun. But I think when it comes to semiautomatic guns I I can't believe that you are for allowing people to have cannons in their backyard and machine guns in their backyard and things that really have nothing to do with the sport of hunting. And I think that it's going to far I was drawing the line in that regard. So maybe maybe the National Rifle Association has gone a little too far off what it was really and Jim Florio was supporting it.

And any issues do change to the nature of weapons on the streets change the whole drug war has changed. And perhaps a politician's need to change also with the issues. Let's go from Walter now to Cherry Hill. Malcolm You're live in New Jersey tonight. You have a question for Governor Mike. Brother do you think that the middle class in New Jersey the working class should be responsible for the deaths of those who don't work. Be a little more specific for us Malcolm Farr for example. I understand that part of the state budget is transferring funds from areas where people don't work to put the money into from very different software from the school districts where people do work and put the money into their school. So he takes issue with the quality education act now there was a state Supreme Court decision which mandated a whole lot and not only that but the formula is not a formula.

Taking money from areas where people don't work and put them in areas where people do are the formula is oriented in terms of the local property tax valuations. And if you've got a virtually no property tax valuations and so that your school budget has that. By taxing the local property tax payer like 15 percent the value of his property whereas in a wealthy district to get even a better education you can tax in less than 1 percent of the value of his property the Supreme Court has said that that's not acceptable. And we've had to tailor legislation to compensate for what the court has identified as a constitutional infirmity. Senator Byrne did they. Did the leaders of the Democratic controlled legislature. Make a mistake in pushing through the one point one billion

dollar Quality Education Act and then a couple months later. There was QE 2 360 million went from school aid to property taxes it was all done very quickly and there was yes and I think that I think that there's a balance in some of this equation between what you do in the name of leadership and what you do in the name of representing your constituents. And when constituents in a number of districts saw this tremendous drain on their own localities even though it may have met some constitutional mandate I think legislators it's only the first of us are human and it's also a matter of survival that. That you respond to that. And they responded to it it may have been a little bit political but they responded to it and what I said is massage them for that.

What's your assessment of the Quality Education Act as it stands now. Well you know I don't know I have seen a number of studies on the Quality Education Act and I've seen studies for instance by Horace The potman knows how to be got in my opinion former dean in fact years which indicated that we missed the mark in number of instances and in making the formula work. And so I think you are correct in saying to ourselves we're going to we're going to keep analyzing the form and we're going to see how it works we're going to admit that if there are mistakes that we're willing to change them. OK. Next up on New Jersey tonight hell in Bridgeton. GOVERNOR Good evening. Fine thank you Governor. I'm a local official down here in South Jersey and you hear it. Budget process that we went through on the local level we submitted a budget of up to Tretton and they turned it down several times. They required that we

take part of our surplus to lower the local property taxes down here. Now I read in the paper all the time now that due to the governor's actions our property taxes have been lowered. But in reality the property taxes down here been lowered in some municipalities primarily because we are now is sucking up the reserves that we have taken years and years to build. We saw how it alleges three different times and they turned it down and had to give us what has it got to be 500 mayors want to know I say stuff. And there is another interesting question is you've got a you've got a set of losing your tennis playing too much property tax in theory you wouldn't have a surplus. He wants it back. And you say no let's save it for a rainy day. I can understand that debate and I

can understand both sides of the property owner who says we really overpaid our property tax and we want to reduce from next year. I can't quarrel with that. Governor Byrne You're well-known for your sense of humor. Quick with the one liners. How do you how do you keep that going even through the tough times because from what I understand even though I wasn't in the state in 1977 when. I think the popular popular phrase was one term Byrne and he kept it up and you kept him coming and I think that's got to be kind of an artform almost keeping the whole world going yeah but this is a funny state. I mean all you have to do is read the papers. As I said I read the papers a year or so ago and I just read an article that said that they found that a truck broke the turnpike. They found that it was leaking oxygen and so they closed the turnpike. Now I read that as a straight on a CO. But if you think about it it's funny. It's really yeah that they really don't want us breathing oxygen

in this that it's not too much of a man. All you have to do is know that it's just funny things happen and that all I have to I don't I don't make up jokes I just repeat. Things I read in a paper about it. Well your situation Jim Florio situation has been compared to your situation. Sure in many times now and I think one of the big differences between you and Jim Florio perhaps is the likability factor and I'm not saying Jim Florio is not likable as a matter of fact I talk to people close to him he's a really nice guy. It's just that it has a hard time coming through. Is that really important for our politician in 1991 to be able to you know play to the media and develop that warm fuzzy sense that people can like them. Ronald Reagan esque for instance. Yeah but it's also true that I first of all Jim Florio has

had to make so many critical speeches on critical issues critical times that that the press hasn't picked up on as informally people have said to me Gee you develop the sense of humor after you get out of office the fact is that the people on my staff will tell you that I saw the humor in situations when I was in office. But that was not what was reported in the press. By and large I mean there was one article of what I was governor were my son who was 7 years old came home the mortgages your governor's mansion. With a slit for me to sign I said What's this he says is for a class trip. I said Where's the class trip he said to the governor's mansion. And I said What happens if I don't sign it. They said well they send me home. Now that's funny I thought that was funny and I repeated that to the press but that's not what they remember me for they remember me for the tough things that he and I have a bad decisions you know nice the prime INS is that I've said things that are things that

you know how to tie the pros and cons and we in the media have no sense of humor governor is that it. Oh I think you do but I think when you're covering a story you cover what's what's critical and when you're in the governor's office most things you do or are important and critical and nobody takes the time and I don't know the television exposure. I've always thought that the governor's press conference should be covered live by public television. I didn't have the kind of exposure that Ronald Reagan had. So that is they came through and I'm not sure. Jim Florio is real person comes through and all you cover is his crises. All right we're going to go to Neptune and Colleen You're live in New Jersey tonight Colleen. Hi Governor for coming. How are you and. I have a question in reference to I just heard a gentleman ask you about the QE 2. I am from an urban district we are one of the 30 and 30 media school district in New Jersey and we received

1.2 million dollars in discretionary funds. Is there any way that the governor Florio possibly could maybe put a little pressure on D. The district the administrative staff for Superintendent its administrator said to me that that money would go to the children I really think that a lot of people are missing the point. I also feel that Mr when I hear that supposedly he's attacking the teachers in the state of New Jersey and they have their own situation Callie we're going to have to let the governor answer because we are running running a little bit at a time and I think you put your finger on what one of the biggest problems in convincing the public of the value of the quality education appropriations and that is that the people the state now do not think that the money is going to the right places they think it's going through

bureaucracy and not the teachers that they don't think that it's making the impact on students. Some of the test results we've gotten will confirm that kind of reaction by the public and I think that's one of the biggest challenges facing the governor in the future. Governor thanks so much for joining us former governor Brendan Byrne. We enjoyed it. Take care. And of course thanks to you at home as always we appreciate the calls. On Monday the night before Election Day we ask this question Why don't a lot of us exercise our right to vote. Cliff Zukin of the Eagleton Institute will join us to talk about voter apathy. That's at 7:30 on Monday. See then have a good weekend. Can you hear me. Come to burn. I know we all know.

Hello Governor Byrne. Yeah. Yes we are off but I just wanted to thank you very much for joining us live it was a pleasure. Another How did cell phone calls go by the way it didn't seem to have many from North Jersey. The calls went fairly well. I'm sorry that one got through but sometimes people will call up with a legitimate question and then they get on it it's like kiddie time you know. Only you would let me answer how you. Met our guest last night we got one of those because it was Halloween and he answered and I think I turned three shades of purple on this end but anyway again we appreciate it and if you like we'll send you a tape. Ugh love it. And we'd love to have you on again. Thanks very much. Sorry I cannot make air get you. Yeah I was saying at the end I would say most stuff like that.

I can't hear you. I'm like we have this. You're making. Yeah I mean that you know you know here you know they don't get I think you know as a grown man you know it's like now as a grown man and obviously got a screw loose. I mean this is a.