Dialog; Insight, Perception and Revelation

You Dialogue is brought to you by Hawaiian Electric Company, people with a powerful commitment. Good evening and welcome to a very

unusual dialogue. I'm Lynn Waters and tonight we're going to be talking about extra sensory perception, reading minds, seeing into the future and the healing of body and mind. Is it really the arena of hoaxters or does it really happen? Well with me this evening are a panel of experts who will delve into and help us understand the world of psychic arts and sciences and the power of extra special communication through their insight, perception and revelation. And I'm really happy to have all of them with us this evening. It's going to be a great Halloween show. I would like to introduce first Beverly Lions. She is a part Hawaiian and her psychic background is in Cahoonism, ESP, exorcism, aura and psychic readings, numerology and card reading. And she also manifests and communicates with spirits. Ms. Lions has selectively appeared on television to comment on among other things, disaster predictions on the big island. Annie Hollingsworth is an astrologer, a psychic reader and counselor and she's also a rebirther. She is the proprietor of the future eye psychic center of business she's own since

1978. And for those of you who are familiar with the downtown planet newspaper, she writes a weekly astrologic forecast column for that publication. Christine Peterson has been reading the cards for over 28 years and she's been reading professionally for almost 20 years. Her initiation into professional tarot card reading came about when she became involved with a person who practiced white magic. I'm going to ask you to explain that a little bit later in the show. And finally, Dr. Ishmael Stagnar, the second is a former classroom and university psychology professor who is now active in high school athletics. He's an OIA football official. And he also happens to be a palmistry specialist. He's also the last in his family to practice the art of Kahunaism, which began 200 years ago when his family members were Kahuna advisors to the Kamehameha's. Well, we'd like to welcome you all to dialogue. It's going to be a fun hour and we want to thank you for being here to help us explore the world of psychic arts and sciences. We also want to remind our viewers that we are live here on Hawaii Public Television. We'll be live for the next hour.

Dialogue is being simulcast on Hawaii Public Radio KIFO 1380 AM. So if you're sitting at home and you have to go someplace and you're totally fascinated with our show, you can listen to it on the radio on the way to your engagement. Our sign language interpreter for this evening is Loretta McDonald and our phone volunteers are waiting to take your calls for our panelists. They are from the Alpha Delta Kappa Kappa chapter and we thank them for being with us this evening. And they're all dressed the same. It looked great. So if you have a question or a comment on tonight's subject, they will be happy to take your call. The numbers 973 1000 neighbor island viewers remember you can call us collect. I'd like to start first with Dr. Stagner. When did you realize that you had the ability to read poems that you had some extra special gift and carry on your family tradition? Well, I had noticed that my mom and my aunt who was the oldest in the family had these powers. I didn't pay very much attention to that. In fact, I was discouraged from doing so. Then of course I went and got a traditional Western parametric

education came back with a PhD and again didn't do much until my mom's later years and my aunts later years when people began asking me if I could do the things that they could do. And that's when I realized that they could do things I could not do. After my mom's death, then unfortunately I began to study my aunt tried to teach me while she was alive and I didn't pay that much attention. Much of what I have done in the last 20 years is to retrace her steps. And again, it's one of those things that I wish I had paid more attention when I was younger. Don't we all wish about many things? Beverly, how about you? When did you first realize that you had some special abilities? Well, I was born on a special day actually and just like Ish, I also am from the Hawaiian line of Kahunnan and my grandmother had it. And when she passed on, I received the money as we call it and that's when I became extra psychic and sensed things from people and see

spirits or as we call it. I call it oral and also spirit guides and I used to kind of like wonder, you know, what am I seeing? So I went to a religious search and I also did a lot of meditation. Then one day at a church, there was an Eto Petri who was very psychic as well and she has a lot of books out and I pray to the Lord that I am to do his spiritual work. Let her get off that top of that chair and come on and get me and I sat way in the back. And the exact words that I pray to the Lord for, she came, walked all the way from the beginning of the church to the back where I was sitting and I was on the last chair. And she grabbed me and said that Jesus was next to me and he says to go out and do your work. So I like to help people and I believe with the combination of the Lord and my grandmother who was also gifted with a power, I received this extra power.

And you do a little bit of an unusual thing that I've never heard of before in terms of dividing your power. Can you tell us what you do and how you first realized that you had that ability? Well, I kind of came into it backwards. I thought everybody could see like, you know, like I do. I see pictures as people are talking to me. I see pictures. And I just figured that everybody could and so I would never say anything until I was probably in my forties before and when I started to study astrology and started, because when I was younger, I always wished that I could be a psychic and wish that I could, you know, like the psychic people that I would see. Could do that. And so when I started studying astrology, I began to realize that I could see things that other people couldn't see. And so that was how I got into it. And then I got into rebirthing, which through the breathing helped to open up my intuitiveness. Now, you were telling me youth,

what I use runes. How do you spell that? R -U -N -E, rune. And what is it? And the word rune means secret. It's an old way of divination that started way before cards and started, I think, with the druids. And what they, and the Africans, and they would find little stones that had symbols on them and they would cast them. And some of the Africans use a sandbox and cast their stones and bones and things on there and read them. And so the stones that I have were passed to me from an old druid lady. And I have since turned them into my Hawaiian runes because I use shells instead of stones. And so, and what happens is as somebody asks me a question or somebody's talking to me or whatever, I cast the runes and it forms the picture in my mind into what's going on with them. We'll have a chance to see you do that in a program. Christine, how about you? Like Ishmael and Beverly, it was in my family. My mother used to read

playing cards, poker deck, just like as Beverly does. And I had an auntie that I think read my cards when I was six or seven years old. So I always knew that it worked. My venture into the field was very accidental. I was looking for a job in a completely different area at the time. But I think I was somewhere in about junior high school. And that was back in the hippie days. I was over in Maui and went to a tourist shop and I found a deck of cards, picked them up. And from the moment I got them, everyone around me handed me. I was young during your high age and so my sister wanted to know if this guy would ask her to the dance. And then she'd tell her girlfriend and her girlfriend would want to reading and on and on and on. And so that it wasn't something that I actually set out to do at all. In fact, it was quite accidental. Like Annie, I think

of the cards like classic like a Rorschach test. That's the ink plot where you look at the plot and you say this makes me think of a butterfly or very much like Annie when I look at the cards, a picture will come to me. That will be very specific picture. Well, I have to confess, it makes me a little nervous hosting this show to know that you can see Aras and pictures and I'm wondering if you're looking at me and seeing Aras and pictures or whatever. Do you just walk around and see things of everybody? No, no, no. No, no. We had to tone it off now and then because it gets bombarded. It's like, do you watch all the channels on the television at the same time? I mean, we could not be walking around and see everything for everybody at any given moment. I mean, even if we wanted to, we, you know, it's just, you know, you know what I mean? You know, for me, because I am mostly appalms at this point here, I am attracted to people's hands. You

know, anyone who's got a hand is going, oh, isn't that nice and that sort of thing. But you learn after a while here now to be careful that you don't over disclose. You don't jump in where somebody doesn't want the information that you have for them anyway. I think all of us here come from the perspective that we want to be helpful and useful to someone at this point that we don't want to impose on someone information that they may not be able to handle or they may not want. They may not be ready to hear. Exactly. They may not be able to hear. I don't like to help people because I want them to change the negative energies that are going around in their lives at this point and giving them the strength and understanding and a solution to their problems. Yes, thank you. See, a lot of people suffer unnecessarily and a lot of people don't know that their options available to them. One of the things I like to do is, and I tell people who I work with to see me as sort of someone who is a helicopter traffic observer, I'm up high. I have a certain perspective that allows me to

see what their options are as they drive their highway. But I don't get in their car and drive their car for them. So I tell them what their options are. They may not know that they have those options available, but they make the decisions after I show them the options as I see them. There is an area of psychic work called mentalist and that would be someone who specifically can go in and read your mind and say, you know, I see you're going to the Philippines and you're going on flight sites and such and such and such and they'll name the number of the flight and everything. But one of the things that I found about that because each psychic has a different gift is that those people aren't very good at predicting the future. Everyone has a strength in some area and then not in other areas. Like Beverly said, I want to help people. How does that help? How does that help people? It does prove it's good for a gimmick because it does prove that there is something to it. And I think that it's worthwhile for that. I want to

remind our viewers that we are live. The number of you have a question or a comment to call us 973 -1000. We're going to do an interesting experiment that I don't think we've ever done on dialogue. We have people from different disciplines here with psychic abilities and we're going to start with Dr. Stagnar who's going to do a palm reading on me because we have to have a physical person in here. But we also have three other ladies who will be willing to give a brief reading, would be the proper term. And we'd like to invite you if you're interested to give us a call and please tell the operator your name and your birth date. Doesn't have to be your last name, right? First name is fine and your birth date. And we'll have a tarot card reading and a numerology reading. One question. Yes. No, I'm sorry, that's right. And just one specific question. Your name, your birth date and one specific question about your future. And we'll select one from among the group that we get and we'll have a reading from each of those three different

disciplines. And all of us are available for further consultations outside of this region. And all are available for further consultations and we will tell you before the show is over how to get in touch with each one. Some of us are in the yellow pages, actually. And we do want to say that you are business people. You do this as a living. This is not a way of life where you walk around and do it all the time. And as you say, you do turn it off from time to time because it can be overwhelming. I turn it on from time to time. Okay, you turn it on from time. That's a better. Yeah, it's a job just like driving a taxi. And there's that phrase, busman's holiday. If you've been driving a bus all week, you don't want to ride the bus through the countryside on your day off. And so there's that sense of it like working over time where we don't really tune into people. Okay, we're going to start. Okay. As opposed, particularly some of the others over here, I have to, I'm probably more

parametric than everybody else is. I can't do a pound reading without hands. Now, pound readings are actually... What is parametric means? Dr. Stagner. You know, parametric means you have to have physical measurement. Oh, great. I just learned something. Because we're going to come from areas where it's going to be non -linear. And it's going to be therefore non -measurable by physical means, but it still works. And that's what I found out the more I saw what my mother, because I was looking in direction for answers. We're all looking for answers. And if you cannot find them through parametric means, doesn't mean that there are no answers. And one of the things I found, hey, there are answers from other areas. And what you want is the whole person and the whole approach. The left and the right mind, for example. So very quickly, what I want you to do is shake your hands and then just drop them on your lap. There you go. Oh, very good. All right. Now, what's your birthday? November 9th. Okay. Yeah, very long linear hands at this point over here, very thin hands. You sing, dance, play,

musical instrument, write, draw, macrame. Musical. Okay, very good. Yeah, very thick knuckles, which indicate now a very strong sensitivity and the stuff. What you have is an interesting type of a situation over here, because one part of you is very linear, is very parametric, and is very organized. The other part of you wants to break away and wants to try and see and do if something different at this point over here, something off the wall. And you need the harmony between the two at this point over here, because of the fact that you are capable of doing both here, but you'd extremely, strongly organized at this one. Hold up your hand. Ah, yes. And so what we have at this point here is your mind controls a lot of what you are doing, but every so often, you need to understand that you have a very strong sense of intuition. And when all else fails, you will find that if you use your intuition, if something doesn't make sense, go with your gut and you'll do fine.

I would think that's pretty accurate from what I know of myself. Wow, fascinating. Okay. Once again, we're going to take a caller, one each for each of the other three disciplines. Give your name and your birth date and a specific question about your future or something you would like to know, correct? Thank you. That was very interesting. What do you say when you run into people who say that this is all, this doesn't make sense? You're making this up. That's so general. It could apply to anybody. How can you, you can't see it parametric. You can't see it. It's not tangible. And my response to that most often is, well, have you ever been in love? What did it look like? People believe in all kinds of things that they can't see. And they take that so much for granted and it's so ingrained that they don't even realize that they are kind of getting out on a ledge there to believe in

that. So that I think that it's not that far away from normal everyday activity. So I think Einstein said it the best when he said that the ability to reason and to use logic is a very, very important power. But the ability to be able to sense and to feel and to derive truth from that direction is a gift and needs to be developed and learned. And he lamented all through his life the fact that the more parametric he became, he recognized that he was leaving away to a logic that other part of him and he felt incomplete. And this was Albert Einstein who most people regard as being a pretty smart man. Yes, I would say most do. First question. What is your opinion regarding the worthiness of the Ouija board? Is it reliable? Is it dangerous? I consider it dangerous. I would consider it dangerous as well. Because it has evil bosses on its side. You don't know how to. You have to drop the souls of light. Not the souls of

darkness. Yeah, don't mess with it. It's very dangerous. No, no, no, no. And throw it away. Burn it. It's like giving a 45 caliber pistol to a two -year -old. I think though you brought up a good point because I think that there is a concept in part of the population that what we do is in some way related to black magic, to casting a hex on a person that people associate a negative element of what we do. There are people who actually do worship Satan, but we are not there. That has nothing to do with what we do. And also the Ouija board is considered a game. I mean it's sold by a game company in the game department. You'll find it. Yes, you ask a game. There's a lot of psychics that really are of light. They really are here to guide and service men. And people don't realize that we're here to help. And I think that when you say it's a game, what happens when you open yourself up to

any passing by spirit is that you are very likely to pull in a poltergeist, a trickster, a game -playing spirit, someone that wants to give you good scare. The process of darkness and it takes over you completely. I have to do a lot of exorcism because these people get themselves into the situation. In fact, the movie The Exorcist actually was not about a little girl. It was about a little boy in Seattle. And the way that the spirit possession started with him was playing with the Ouija board. And he brought in this spirit cowboy Bob. And he started using cowboy Bob to play tricks on his friends. And then there came a point when the spirit that was coming into him was so strong that he could not lift it. Sounds kind of scary. Don't try it. Everybody's agreed on that. The question for all the panelists. What is going to happen to Hawaii's future in the next three to five years, especially in the area of economics? You were telling me before the show that you had commented on this very topic. I did that a couple of years ago. I was on dialogue with that very question. And I don't have a clue as to what I said. But

what was the question about Hawaii's economic future? What does Hawaii's future look like, especially in the area of economics in the next three to five years? Well, that's interesting because of the information that I'm getting from the spiritual hierarchy and the angelic hierarchy about earth changes that are coming. So I will have to... It's a long talk. There's so much to discuss about that, the energies that we feel on that. So, but I will project that Hawaii being that it is going to be the heart center of the new world. I've been given that information. So I would say that the economy of Hawaii is going to get better. Starting right now, right this minute. Well, many would say it can't get much worse. That's true, but I also feel that Hawaii is going to go through one more major cleansing period than it comes out. And

it is going to be very, very good, but it's going to go through one more cleansing period. It's a more intrinsic cleansing. It goes through time. It's like you're falling down and you have to get up real strong. It strengthens you. It really does. Everything we're going through now is for a purpose. It is not incidental. It is not accidental. We're going to come out better and stronger and wiser. But we've got to learn the hard way. We've got some very, very strong mind at stupid people in positions of leadership. The only way we're going to be able to overcome that is to be able to live and learn to work with that type of leadership. Once we get past that, we'll be fine here now, but that cleansing is going to occur and then comes the good stuff after. Well, I'm not going to ask you any specifics about it. You just alluded to that. This caller wants to know, is there any scientific proof of reincarnation? Scientific proof? I don't know how you would define scientific, but... You're going to have to ask, is there any scientific proof that

somebody's in love or that somebody is courageous or that somebody is honorable? Because your asking, is there a parametric measure to something that is non -parametric? If I can overuse that word again here, you're trying to measure apples and oranges and trying to see if you can come up with a fruit salad and it doesn't necessarily work. I have proof of my own. Yes, we have proof of all from the people that come to us. Use it to experiential. In the visual that we work on. And some people won't see it until after it happens. I guess the common term for it is a deja vu experience, but almost everyone has had an experience where you walk up to a white house and you say, I've walked up the same path in the same way, wearing the same dress before. And I think that that often is a flashback from a past life. I have been here before. That you have never met before in this life and you know that you've met him

before. Yeah, it's called that I've been here before. And I don't quite know why. That's right, exactly. I could go into a religion in the Bible, it also states about Elijah being John the Baptist. If someone studies the Bible, but you know the Bible has been changed by saying Augustine in the sense. And a few other people throughout the ages, but that's one proof for me that I read several times and I kind of like, okay, I understand it. Two questions along the same lines. How do you know that you have the power? Can it be developed? And this caller wants to know, can you provide ideas of how to develop psychic skills? I guess the question is, how do you know you have it? And if you're not sure, can you acquire it or can you develop it? I feel everybody has it. Yes, everybody has it. You can develop it. I teach psychic awareness classes. But I think that there is something with a

professional psychic, something extra that happens. And I think one of the ways that I can pick out like students, people who would be good students for me, is their interest in it. When I first got a deck of cards, I did not put them down for days. I'd read again and again. Commitment. Commitment and you have to love people. You have to want to do it. Fascination and compassion and... Seven, I did a number of people who have asked me, can you teach me how to read poems? Of course, I can teach you, but I don't know if you will learn. I'll draw it. Right. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't pass them. Yeah. And because I've had people quit, you know. Now sometimes they quit because all of a sudden they find that they do have the power and they're not quite sure they want that power. Yeah, yeah. Because they're talking about power, but you're also talking about responsibility. Are you going to handle that power responsibly? It's a cure and responsibility. When I am through particularly giving a set of readings, I am physically very, very tired. Yeah, very. I get high. I can't sleep at night. I get real high. I get headaches. I don't

get headaches, but I get very high. I get my brains. Tetics. Okay, really interesting questions here. What will Microsoft do in the next two months? We need their birth, Microsoft's birth date. You need Microsoft's birth date. That's the next question. Okay. Which, by the way, you know, companies, they're not going down. I see them going down. The companies have birth date. Everything has birth date. When it says they're going down. When it says they're not. No, I said this. You said yes. You said no. They're not going to go down. They're going to hang on. Okay. Microsoft's not cold or something. They even need some comments. But I think they have a good solid company. But I see something happening. And then, like, you know, falling down and coming back up again. Okay, this caller wants to know. Do you see the independence of the Hawaiian nation in the future? When will it happen? I wish for that. But I don't see it happening. It will come. But I don't think it's going to come in the way that most people are defining. Yes.

And are identifying it now. Now, there are some very good, good augurs and very good omens. But there are some very deep -seated real problems that have to be overcome. You know, I would like to mention that the Hawaiian people as a whole. If they get together as a whole and meditate. Because we are in our own property. This is our land. And we have a lot of money here. Strong, powerful money. In fact, from what I've researched and read, the Hawaiians are the second highest psychic people. In the world. The Hawaiians are the second highest people that are very psychic in the world. If we unite as all Hawaiians unite together and use our minds and our mana, then maybe we can turn the faucets in the future. I really believe that. And I wish some people would listen to that. But they need to be taught to use it. And to misuse it is not good too. Also, there's also some Hawaiians might misuse it. Because power gets into your ego.

And when ego gets in there, that's when it's bad. This caller wants to know. Has anyone on the panel been asked for their help in solving any crimes? Do you have an approach? You have. Can you tell us briefly about that? I've done some finding out whether people who was killed. I worked with Dale Sheeran a few of her cases, like the Diane Suzuki case. And I worked with someone, you know, the woman that someone chew the rocks into her car and she died. Her daughter in law is my niece. So I worked with that case. But it's very hard. The police department won't listen to us. So you've got to work on the cover like with the police. You go into someone's body space. Don't you? Yeah. You go into someone's body space and you look at other eyes and you kind of imagine what it's like to be them. Well, if you can imagine what it's like to be someone

in the last few minutes of their life before they're murdered and to feel what they're feeling and to experience what they're feeling, it's very, very difficult on the psychic. I would think it would be a lot like an actress when actresses play very heavy roles. Like a patty duke and the miracle worker. She said, you know, even though I was a child, I would just be wronged out. And so it was very difficult work. I have a great deal of respect for people who do it. I've done a little of it and just bowed out. A lot of good psychic, Sylvia Brown. Yes. And I really wanted to mention Sylvia Brown tonight. I don't know whether she was coming through to me or not. But she is like my idol. I would love to be Sylvia Brown. They call them detectives psychics. Yeah. But they're specialized. Yeah. They're very good. Okay. We are going to take a quick break here so that you can find out what shows are coming up on a white

public television in the near future. We have a lot of specific questions. What I'm going to do after the break is we'll have each one choose one of these cards. So it'll be totally easy to pick. And we'll see what we can do about answering your questions. So anyway, if you have a further question, a general question for our panelists. This is a good time to call the numbers. 973 -1000. We'll be right back. Commemorating 25 years of broadcasting excellence. Join us this week as we present another treasure from the archives of Hawaii public television. Celebrate 25 in Rutgers back

in Saturday night at 7. Coming in November. Join the original Western adventure. And wander through the wilds of Peru. Celebrate the birth of freedom. As we build a bridge to the future. And see how America learned to laugh. It's all coming in November on this PBS station. Welcome back to Dialogue. I'm Lynn Waters and we want to thank our gracious phone answerers this evening. They are taking your calls and they are members of Alpha Delta Kappa Kappa chapter. We'd like to thank them for volunteering their time on Dialogue. Our show tonight once again is on insight, perception and revelation. Our guests are Annie Hollingsworth, Chris Peterson, Beverly Lions and Dr. Ish Stagnar. And what I'm going to do, we've had so many calls. And again, I wish we could answer every one of you. But we're going to let each of our other three guests pick a card from this stack and give

you a response to your question in their specific areas of discipline. And start with Beverly because you'll need a minute or so to do your calculations. So just pick one card. And then Chris, can you reach over here? We're wired up. We are kind of wired for sound here. So Annie, okay. So who needs the most time, I think, Beverly does. So who would like to go first here with her? I'm ready. Oh, you're ready already. Okay. Well, can you read us your card and what the person? Eddie. He says, am I taking the right steps by retaining my career? Well, Eddie, you have a lot of fights in your chart. And numerology, fights means a lot of changes in the life process. So evidently, now and then, inside of your soul, inside your being, you're going to have this strong urge to make changes. Usually, I advise these type of people to basically work for a large organization like Sydney County State Federal or some big company where you can move into different departments because they have a hard

time having a stable energy regarding their jobs. But I would say to Eddie, gee, you have two powerful numbers here, which actually means that you should own your own business. It's good in communication. He has a salesman's position and he has two numbers, the six and the eight as they're ruling numbers. In numerology, the six and eight are good business people. The only thing you have to watch for is not to give away your goods and services now. And then you're vulnerable to be too kindhearted at times. Okay. Okay. It's pretty thorough description. What was Eddie's birthday? Just to make sure we've got the right Eddie. 9th, 15, 1955. All of the fights there, that means lots of changes. So even his business would require changes in the location and also in the merchandise. He likes varieties. Okay. Who would like to go next? Annie, can you go next? Yeah, I'll go. The question is, if I am the one to reunite my family. And this is from

Natalie. And her birthday is May 26th. Oh, she wants to give me the year 9th. Okay, that's fine. May 26th is fine. And before I even cast the runes, my answer is yes. Because she is the sixth of clubs, which relates to another numerology system. That means that she is the messenger and being a Gemini too. So, but I'm in the cast the runes and see what they say. Yes, she is definitely the first person that she will contact. It will be a man and maybe her father who knows. And he will be quite surprised by this. But it will all come together. There's a whole lot of people that have not been together for an awfully long time. Lifetime as a matter of fact. But it will all come together. And there's a big heart around the whole thing. And we wish her lots of good issues on that one. Yeah. Positive energies. Yeah, very much so. Christine or lastly. Rebecca. For an 831.

How can I get out of my current relationship peacefully? My luck. It's a question now. I take that this is a very serious question. I have a feeling that the person that she's trying to break away from has a little bit of a volatile temper. And is not going to let go of her easily whatsoever. And so what comes up are questions of integrity because my tendency is to want to advise her not to be completely honest. Even though honesty is a good characteristic in most situations in this one, it may not work, you know, the ultimate way that it should. But I also have a feeling that she sort of plays along or goes him a little bit as far as that volatile temper goes and that she could keep him calmer

by not feeding into that, the sense of drama. When I first looked at this, I started to chuckle and then I realized how serious it was. But usually, you know, how can I get out of my current relationship? I always say skip out the back jack, find a new plan, stand. No need to be coy Roy. Remember that song? There must be 50 ways. And there are. If you want to get out, you do get out. I would just say for her to be very careful and unfortunately can't be completely candid. Okay, this is probably a good time and thank you for those readings that you gave us. Let's go around the table and let people know how they can contact you. If they would like more information, et cetera. My number, can we give out our numbers? Is it a business number that you take? Yes, it is a business number. It's best to get a whole of me after five because I really work a food time job and I do helping people after hours. My number at my place is five, nine,

six, eight, six, four, four. And I'm also in the telephone book, in case you forget the number, it's under Beverly Lions. And it's Al -Y -O -N -S. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. As I always say, I'm in the yellow pages under S for psychic. Not really. But I am in the yellow pages. Okay. And Annie. And I am very reachable. I'm in the downtown planet. You can find my number there. I have email address. If you try at aloha .com. And my phone number is five, two, eight, three, one, five, two. And I'm in the yellow pages. Every multiple way. Almost every page. And is how would people get in touch with you? Basically, they can get a hold of me through the Montague Marketplace psychic fairs that are every month. Generally speaking, I have the type of job that

is very, very difficult to plan for. And so therefore, if people try to get a hold of me, they get very, very frustrated. Also, because sometimes my readings are so intense, I try to be very selective. And what I read sometimes. And when I read, because I look at headaches sometimes, if something comes in that super, that's overpowering. Good point. May I also mention that there's a lot of psychic fairs that where people can actually have their readings done free by the ten bucks? Yeah. For a shorter time and faster. And you know, some people are concerned about money. And I know that. People don't trust a psychic that we're very good. The people that come to us regularly know that we're good enough to pay the amount that we have. Each male and I are at the Montague Marketplace Fair, which is every third Sunday of the month. Montague Marketplace is in Chinatown, Montague and Hostel Street. And she and I are at the Doe Canery. Doe Canery and the Rava Line Shopping Center.

And next year, there will be other locations. Yes, a whole lot. To be announced. To be announced, yes. I'd like to read this comment and ask anybody who feels comfortable responding. This comment from a listener who feels tonight's topic is not fitting for public television. It is a disgrace to scientific thinking. Oh, I think it's absolutely wonderful that they would say something like that. Because then I need a definition on what is science at this point over here. Because we're going to talk about Edward Teller. We're going to talk about Albert Einstein. We're going to talk about Isaac Newton. We're going to talk about Galileo, who have some degree of scientific credentials and who all tended to believe that there were forces beyond the physical world, which, if they could tap into, might give them further pieces of information. If you take a look at the expansion of knowledge over the years and over the centuries, what was one generation's heresy was the next generation science.

So where do we make the cutoff? I mean, we're now going into quantum physics and all this kind of stuff. 100 years ago, psychology was not science. 200 years ago, what was in medicine is very, very different from what we have now. So if we don't leave our minds open for change and flexibility and growth, then that's being very unscientific. In addition, there is scientific proof. People have been tested in laboratories with control groups, what the rate of accuracy is. And in addition to that, there's a new kind of science opening up where they can actually see the, by color, the trace chemicals of the warm spots and the thermography. Thermography. Where they can actually see what's going on in the brain, and it is measurable and it can be detected. Let me just simply use a small example of what I'm talking about. We've always, we've talked here about the power of positive thinking and how it can work in healing and in improving the life of a person.

The classical study here now is of Norman Cousins and the whole field of what's called psychoneuro immunology at this point here. And the fact that if people think positive thoughts, they can cure themselves. And all of us here have talked about the fact of what we want to do is redirect people's thinking so that to a large extent they can cure themselves and heal themselves. Well, you know, when I was studying psychology a few years ago, you could have a whole chapter that was on the paranormal and it was undercue for quackery. Now, at the same school that I went to, that regarded this whole field as quackery, they now have the largest school for psychoneuro immunology basically because they recognize now that that is a very legitimate approach now to health. We're here because we want to heal. We're here because we want to help. If somebody is narrow -minded enough to say that I don't trust what you are doing, what they are saying and

effect is I don't trust myself and my ability to heal myself. And if they want to suffer, let them. Lots of every choice. Okay. Lots of questions I want to try to get to as many as we can. We've got about 15 minutes left. Several questions. Beverly, you mentioned that the Hawaiians were the second most psychic group. Who was the first? I was going to have people from India. The people from India. They have the strongest psychic abilities. They could levitate and manifest much more. See, according to what I was told by some professors of psychology at the University of Hawaii, as that the Hawaiians are part of the Lemorian race. And also the lost tribes of Israel. We're the 13th tribe. We're the 13th colony. And that we're part of the strong spiritual connection. That's why the Hawaiians do a lot of meditation. And we believe in the ha and the leaky. Which is an energy that we generate through our minds and through our emotions. You know, a lot

of psychics. They don't know how the power comes from. And when I tell them, you know, there's a way you have your power. How? They don't know. The power comes from your mind and also your emotions. Your emotions are good and evil. If you send out love, you get back love. You send out evil. You get back. It's causing a fat. And the Indians have done it way before we did. But they're the first and we're the second. Okay. This is a great question. It was one of a specific with the name and a birthday. But I'm going to throw it out anyway. What do you think will happen to the Bishop of State trustees? Cool. Anybody? Anybody? Anybody have any thoughts on that? There are indeed deep problems. There are deep. It's going to get worse before it gets better. The disclosures are going to be stuck over here. But in the final analysis, I think it's going to come out probably a lot better than most people anticipate. Other than that, I really can't say much because I know every single trustee personally at this point. And being a Kamehameha Schools graduate myself,

I am most distressed about all that's happening. What was the birth date? I mean, what? It was the person that called, right? This is the person who called and asked a question, May 3rd, 1934. Actually, I pray for them. Yeah. I pray for them. There has been misuse, but I say there was also the overall, the final result. There has been some good. I mean, people do bad things, but sometimes they also do more good than they do bad. Let's try something here. Now, let me give you a date, 1887. That would be a power number eight or part number nine? It's a nine, and it's intense. It's intense. Nine in numerology is actually a very high intense number. It always means that there is forces that will always destruct. In other words, persons spawn on the night. Sometimes they have self -destruction energies. And yet, they have a powerful

energy as well. They can obtain the highest level of things that they want in their life. And they're very psychic and intuition people. But when it comes to a date, the energy is a bad. There's destruction. Why did you pick that year? It's here that schools were founded. And basically, what I'm saying at this point here is that you have this Yin and Yang that is occurring. She talked about the height at this point over here. And the only thing that's going to destroy the Bishop of State in the Commemme of Schools is the Bishop of State in the Commemme of Schools. Nothing else. Okay. We'll move on. This caller says she has dreams for her ancestors appear and give her directions on how to live and how she should return to her roots. Have you had experiences with people like her and what does it mean? I have that all the time. They come and they talk to me. And the next day, what they tell me comes out true. I think it's wonderful. I have an entity that talks to me. I even move things, but it's a positive energy. It's not a negative. Because a negative energy destroys positive energies.

They guide you. They give you direction. And I can also see other people's energies too. They guide in spirits. And sometimes they can describe the clothing they got on. She has a power and she has a gift that she should develop. She does. She has a 2 and a 9. The 2 is a master number and the 9 is intense. This caller wants to know if you have the ability or perception to help a divine gift to each of these panelists. Why is your service not freely given? Why charge for it? Really good answer to that. Yeah, I like to put some food on the table. If you are doing readings for people all day, how are you going to pay the rent? There has to be an exchange of energy. So when they pay us, there's an exchange. I'm giving a service and they're paying. We can't go to the grocery store and ask for a loaf of bread because we don't have any money. They should give it to us. The same thing.

It's kind of like doctors charge for their services. Well, I started off giving it free, but I found that people took advantage of it. They really did. And then I asked the law. Before I actually went to charge, I went and asked the law, which is the Bible. And I came to a part of the Bible when I opened my close minds. How do I not believe in opening the Bible? We lay our hands. We see our prayers. We give our request and we open the Bible for an answer. And the answer I got is that the people that serve, like the ministers, get one tent off the people's earnings. And I think I asked less than one tent. It's for my time and my energy is that I'm putting out that I'm asking for. And I think I'm pretty reasonable. I have to fight with some other people just, you know, they think I should charge myself. I've also found that there's the people that, when they call up on the phone before they even come in, that ask if they can have a discount. Those tend to be the people that learn the least and appreciate, don't appreciate what they've been given. And

complain that, you know, they didn't get what they expected. Yeah, and there's another problem also here too that, I mean, I find in my particular case that I give a lot of free readings anyway. And most of my readings are for a set period of time, which I always run over and exceed. So if I were to pro -rate what I charge over what I give, my kids who babysit make more money than I do on an hourly basis. But the other thing is you have to separate the sincere and the serious from those who just simply want to come and get a free reading just like doctors. Because somebody just walked up and said, I'm sick, you're me. I mean, after a while, because it's an intense thing with me, I'm giving a portion of myself. And it's very hard, it's very difficult. And I've got to be able to weed out the sincere as Chris says from those who are just the curious. And those who frankly want to waste my time and waste my energy. And you make a good point, Ish. This is very difficult work. And it is,

there's not interestingly enough, there's not very many healthy psychics around. If you notice, they really are not. It puts a drain on your physical body. During the moment that you're doing a reading, you'll be feeling the mental wheel spinning. It's, but it's afterwards when it hits you physically like a ton of bricks. And to work that hard and to give that much to someone and not get anything in return, I think would be unfair. And we have to go and cleanse ourselves because they have a problem. We bless them. We get that karma. We have to bless ourselves. We have to cleanse. We call it white lighting. And we white light ourselves. We have to protect ourselves and to protect that person. We white light them too. So we're giving them a lot of strength. Next question. Next question. Next question. We've read a couple of comments saying this is all bunked. This is not scientific. This caller says those who doubt psychics must recognize that Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad were proven true. A psychic is born. It's great to have a program like this continue to talk. Thank you. God bless you. This caller

says please do not leave out the Africans as a psychic group. Indians should also be recognized, which of course you did. And American Indians. American Indians as well. I think they were the turd. The turd highest. What I had to say. American Indians were the turd highest energy and psychic abilities. Now this includes people don't realize that all of us have it. And it's up to us to connect one with the divine God, the divine creator, to get it. And to help us to control our lives. See people want control of their lives. And they don't know how to do it. This caller wants to know how can I sign up or receive information regarding classes on palm reading. And once a reply we will pass this on to our guest. So they will contact you but can you give answer that question over the air force. As the news I can tell I don't, they're not very many palm readers in the whole state. Yes. And they're not very many palm readers who like to teach palm reading. So I'll take that question and I'll answer that personally. Okay. You'll have that question at the end of the show. I'm going to put it off to the side here. To Beverly, I feel static in

my hand. Is that a healing power? I have to see the color of the person's aura to actually answer that. Because you can have static and not really have the gift real strongly. But usually people who could lay their hands and generate a lot of heat. On to another person and usually the cold spot is here. And if you can put your hands like someone else, your hand like me should not put together. And you put your finger there, you could feel the heat. That means they really have a lot of healing energy. And that they can develop the healing with the lane of hands. Because it's written in the scriptures of the Bible that we all have the lane of the hands. But see the lane of hands also has to have with the hot and your mind and the emotion. All that has to be combined as one as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. See, that's all important. It's using your mind, your emotion, and the love. The heart is the love. Which leads right into the next question. What religion does each of the speakers

practice? I am a Protestant, which is my great grandfather, John Wise. I invite you a lot of people who are familiar with him. He's in the history books. I am his great -granddaughter. Yes, he was a professor at the university. I'm his great -granddaughter, and he founded our Church of Protestant Church. But I also have studied many types of religion. The Adventists, Moments, quite a bit. And I also consider myself a scholar in religion. But I'm not a know -it -all. I'm still learning. But I believe in a universal God. And because when I studied the other religion, it all has to do with love. How about you? I'm kind of an eclectic Christian, Judeic Buddhist. You're universal. I take what I like from each religion, and pretty much discreet. I think a religion should work for you if you're choosing one. And if you like to dance, then maybe you don't want to become

a Mormon or someone who doesn't dance. I think that it should work for you. But I like an old line from a Peter O'Toole movie. He thought that he was God, and they said, why? And he says, well, because when I pray, I always find I'm talking to myself. Religions, whatever you make it. The side of the table? Well, I'm like them, too. I don't have any specific religion. I study all of them. I'm a spiritualist. I'm a lover. I like to give love. An issue? Well, my grandmother was a very, very sincere practicing Mormon. My mother was a very sincere practicing Mormon, and I tried to be a sincere practicing Mormon. Although I do worship the San Francisco 49ers, and I pray for them this coming week when they play the Dallas Cowboys. Is that a religion? I guess it is because I have my altar, and I have my oats, and I have my prayers, and I have my saccharine.

This caller wants to know the birth sign of each of the psychics and myself, which is what your zodiac sign is, what we commonly know in your zodiac sign. Why would they want to know that? Why would this caller want to know that? Probably it's astrologer. Yeah, they're probably in the astrologer. Does anybody have any objections to sharing your birth sign? No, I'm not at all. Okay, let's go around the table, Annie. I'm a Capricorn. And there's a Capricorn? Yes. I'm a Gemini Junete. You're a Gemini. I'm a Scorpio Beverly. I'm a Capricorn. December 23rd. Okay. I'm a Moon child. Cancer. June 28th. Well, we've got two minutes left, so if you've got some great revelation, based on that, you've got two minutes to call us. This caller says, I am sensitive towards my surroundings. How do I protect myself from being so sensitive? Right, light. White light. Visualize white light. A protection. Like an armor protection of light. But that light comes from the divine God. Okay. Pray. And pray. This caller says, what one single thought will improve one's

health? I am healthy. Well, that's not one single thought. I have to improve someone's health. I was just in the hospital the other day, yesterday. And they told me I had a heart attack. And I said to myself, oh, okay. I looked up to heaven and I said, it's not going to be not. I'm not ready for it. And I stayed, you know, throughout the morning and the day, meditating, meditating for healing. I asked God, you are the divine God. You helped me heal. And I prayed and I prayed and I prayed. It's just meditating for healing, healing, just constant healing. And I'm working also on arthritis that I had just developed. And hopefully that will be cured. The most powerful mechanism in the universe is now and has always been the workshop of the mind. If you want to be healthy, you have to visualize and you have to see yourself as a winner. You have to see yourself as a champion. You have to see

yourself as someone who is healthy. And then you work towards it. It also helps to surround yourself not only with white light, but with white people. That is cheerful, happy. White not racial, white state of mind. White state of mind. Believe it or not, we're out of time. That's a great note to end on. It's been a quick and a very interesting hour. We've covered a lot of ground. We hope you've enjoyed the show. And I want to thank all our guests this evening. Next week, I'll be back with dialogue on the telecommunications industry. Talk about a shift of topics. So if you'd like to send us an email for that show, our address is dialogue at kgt .pbs .org. Once again, thanks to our guest, Chris Peterson, Beverly Lyons, Annie Hollingsworth, and Ish Dagner. And also, of course, to the Alpha Delta Kappa, Kappa chapter people for volunteering their time. And of course, to you for watching. Until next Friday, I'm Lynn Waters, wishing you a good spooky night from dialogue. .

. . . . . . . Dialogue is brought to you by Hawaiian Electric Company, people with a powerful commitment. . You know what I'm thinking. Maybe you do, and

maybe you don't. There are, however, some people out there who do claim the ability to read minds, heal the body, see the future, and communicate with the beyond. On Friday, Halloween night, my colleague, Lynn Waters, will moderate a dialogue on insight, perception, and revelation. It could be a spooky show as they'll be delving into the world of psychic arts and sciences. So what am I thinking now? Perhaps that you'll be watching dialogue Friday at 8. . . . . . . . . How will you do it at 8?

It's a good fucking nécessaire night.