Voter's Pipeline; County Beat: Interview with Orange County Supervisor Ralph Diedrich

Channel 59 presents Motors pipelining a program designed to keep voters in touch with the people they elect to office. The program alternates each week in dialogues with Orange County elected officials in Washington Sacramento county government and one of the county's twenty six cities. Today's program deals with elected officials who represent Orange County people and county government. It presents candid conversations on current issues and here's host Droom Cooper. They call them super D. I'm referring to Ralph Diedrich who has served as an Orange County supervisor for the past five years. You've been one of the county's top newsmakers and one of the most influential elected officials in Orange County during this period. He's now battling a number of charges in indictments from the grand jury. I'm Jim Cooper and I'll be talking with him about these charges and his view of the condition of the county today about Dietrich was

elected to the Board of Supervisors in January 1973. In 1975 in two thousand nine hundred seventy six he was its chairman. You served in the criminal justice counsel in the Coastal Commission and he is currently a member of the Executive Committee of the Southern California Association of governments and the county supervisors Association of California supervisor Diedrich this has been certainly an ordeal for you I imagine the whole thing I think has been going on what 11 months 10 I believe 13 or unsound about 14 months that you have been charged of things including the six felony charges and 10 misdemeanor charges in the indictment of July 1st there's been many other charges which have never been exactly spelled out in any kind of legal action but they have nevertheless been charges that have found their way into the newspapers. Right and if you're saying time. What is your reflection about all this. Well it's kind of a newer era I suppose for Orange County. I didn't I suppose I make some of the news for being the kind of an individual I

am. I certainly. I'm willing to take whatever comes I sometimes wonder is this what we expect from our public officials a being constantly in the news their friends in the news their family in the news. I think that the press has gone too far but obviously that's my opinion. Do you think that the the media the press the radio the television story they had they in general been fair with you. How would you answer that. Fair in the sense that at least they will listen to my quotes and usually print the quotes. The problem is that there has been so many multiple charges apparently raised against me either in the press or by other individuals that it makes it very difficult saying no no no constantly You're understand. What makes a story today. Is it just because it's rough did Rick's mention is that a story. I think you have to have more than just somebody saying something. You need some degree of

competency to the person saying it or some degree of proof. And I question whether that's always true in the media in the last 13 months. You made a statement when the indictment came out I'm going to read one part of it. You called this a fishing it expedition you said this long fishing expedition that began last year was designed to destroy me politically in the newspapers and to drag me into court to finish the job. Did I make that statement and I failed but believe that that was a correct statement. But it's returning and I have had some major philosophical arguments both on his performance and the performance of his office. I don't question and I don't even deny that he has the right to do the same to me. I question whether he should have the entire staff of the county as his own KGB to investigate enemies of the district attorney's office. I'm willing to be and have been always accountable for any of my actions. But there are some constitutional rights that we must discuss at these times. Mr Hicks was on the television station your television station and made the

flat statement that there was no hearsay evidence in the current indictment. Now either he is stupid or he thinks we're stupid because that's a lie and that just can't be hearsay evidence he said. I made the comment that only evidence that could be presented in court was presented to the grand jury. Well that's fallacious foolish absolutely absolutely dumb that he would make that kind of a statement. I challenge anybody in the in the audience to read the transcripts and see what was presented to the grand jury. Let's talk about the word vendetta. And we asked that question to suit to rather to a district attorney here when he was on this program whether there was any vendetta or any venom on his part and he has said absolutely not in any of his actions that he was caring about and he gave us an example that he's also prosecuted. Republican congressman former congressman Hinshaw as evidence that he was carrying out his job do you have any comment on that. I think any pop public official has to be accountable for their actions. But the

environment today and Orange County created by Mr. Dysart attorney Hicks is that they're suspect to start with and they try to find work. What you've done wrong. And I think that's wrong. Constitutional guarantees don't allow that. However you shoot your best shot. Mr. Hicks I'm available. I'll fight you to the very end. And when I get it or if I ever get convicted that's when he's been convicted me but not in the prep press like he's done. Do you feel there had been some sort of vendetta effect and of course in the course you'd be a fool not to believe that even the superior court judge ruled that he was biased and prejudiced. Let me ask you specifically before the indictment came out about another story that made many many headlines in Orange County and that was about a big dispute over a transfer of twenty two deputies from the district attorney's office to the sheriff's office of Orange County. Do you feel that that in some way had anything to do with the later subsequent events like I think it was one of the many things however I don't put as much emphasis on that as some people do. We had a slush fund argument. We had an argument in the secret

file system and then we had the transfer of the deputies. So it was the three issues that certainly gives him a chance to say hey those guys don't like me and I'm going to go after him. Certainly one thing that the district attorney said and then you have just said and that is that let the courts make the final decision. Apparently you have that feeling about it. I feel very confident that you cannot convince and contrive a conclusion out of the court that he can and did out of the grand jury. California has what is called the California Political Reform Act of 1974. We all know it as Prop 9 and it says that you're supposed to be very careful about reporting contributions and receipts of contributions in a political campaign. And yet these charges that have been leveled against you in the indictment have to do specifically with violations or alleged violations or so years. You've been charged with seeing that money got to other people and we know where the name is. Supervisor Anthony Assemblyman Ray City Councilman

caught Assemblyman Magers all of those and then were candidates but are now elected in all four of them were successful in their races that you funneled money to them by a means other than direct and the accountability was not made clear. What do you say because that's that's what all of the I don't think there's a question that there was some funds of mine that eventually ended up in the hands of candidates. There was no question that I had an involvement in that that case. But now let's understand is that a violation of the law but wasn't that a violation of proper Not according to the attorney who advised me. So you say that gets down to a legal of course rotation of the thing. You don't deny that the money did get there. Well I said cite somebody. It was any of my money that went there was my money. It was not anybody else's money. Was there any reason if you wanted to give money to soup to anyone else a supervisor can say the city council candidate or two assembly candidates. Why you couldn't give the money directly would there be any motive for your not giving the money directly to the best motives that

one could give you and never has been publicized because I've told him I'm going to press the same OT and they don't believe in it and that is I didn't want and then do influence on any of the candidates that I was helping and financial contributions were an undue influence sometimes I didn't want the suggestion to anybody that I was that he was helped by me and so quite there might have been some friendship or a debt owed. I didn't want that. I supported in the past and have done so in other races. What I thought was the best individual running in the race but I didn't want any loyalty syndrome I didn't want anything. You know I'm going to help you and you reassure and remember by at least divorcing that for me in that sense I had nothing to do with it. The candidate didn't show me that other people so pay that other people back. We've just come through the whole prosecution of Lewis shell and the charge was that he was quote trying to become a king maker by making large contributions. Did you feel

some of that stigma might rub off to you if it became I don't suppose it would cons.. Because I don't want to ever. I don't want anybody that candidate or anybody else to think that I had an undue influence on me I just wanted a working order that relationship with most people. And by the way I was very successful most of the people that I supported moron and all that Gore did win. And secondly there was no obligation other than do a job for the constituency. I'm a little tired of public officials not really responding to what the needs of Orange County. Isn't it true though that the we would know that you were the ones who made the no money no available. No they did not know. Not to my knowledge there has been a lot of dialogue in the newspapers. But in the mind of a given to one of them made a statement that is that erroneous but I don't have any problems well with that. Those were bonafide loans that were out of the degree of campaign loans by the way. They were commercial loans. Your attorney Michael Remington has pleaded guilty in the indictment

matters and he has now since then turned state's evidence on a new investigation and now we are. Let's talk about the new investigation I've got I call it what I what I only know I have not heard any. What's truly been said to the grand jury and what's really been that I know that that any number of friends and acquaintances are being queried but that's all right. There is an allegation that you were involved with the Anaheim Hills and at the time that the Anaheim hild was seeking to have from the county removal from their status in agriculture preserved for twenty two hundred acres I believe it was and that you had had your attorney Mr. Michael Remington contacted by to the principals of the Anaheim Hills corporation and they were given a fee that that was in its revenues that is that all allegation because I had an all right that these are allegations. And. Two of those people have since two of the people who were with the company Robert H Grant and Richard L. Owens have now. Turned state's evidence and they are have been granted immunity and they have said they did pay $75000 to your attorney Michael

Remington who became their how do you know that this is what their statements you know they're they didn't make statements. This was what they were they've been quoted in the poem there's See there's that the newspapers have no degree of competency on that they don't know it but they have pipelines into the grand jury. There is a district attorney took in and what they're saying I did I asked that very question of the district attorney and he said there was no leaks that he was aware of and I say well I'm not going to talk about leaks from the I could give you some great leak information and we've done it before. All right let's let's talk about you're aware of this let's talk state issues as you see him. Admittedly Mr. Remington has apparently testified. Apparently he has as pleaded to some form of a lesser charge on the charges that are currently on the July 1st indictment. Yes I've had no conversation with Mr. Remington. What Mr. Remington said in previous grand jury testimony consisting of almost seven hours leads one to believe that there are no we told the truth.

Did he say the same thing. That's all I can say. I really don't know what you said. I know that he had some say some very serious problems psychologically. And I don't necessarily whether I blame him or not. I haven't time to waste time saying he's a bad guy or good guy. He's done what he thought he had to do. I am not concerned that any of his testimony is is can be either hurt me or that is necessarily true or false. I believe I think we all have enough strong evidence that will set anything aside that will make me look in the slightest bit guilty. I think one thing we should clear up and let you respond to this has been virtually all the newspapers have said this amount of this alleged amount to $75000 that was paid to Michael Remington. As a fee for his efforts we have the county to remove some of this land from agricultural preserve in the Anaheim Hills corporation that $25000 of that money was used to pay off a debt

that was a debt that you had incurred with a man who has a food company. You want to comment on that. How do you know that it was 25000. Of the seven I don't what I'm saying these are the I don't know either of you understand but do you want to comment I mean that I would go to get to the point that you're making in the previous testimony of Remington and he admitted that he has under his care custody and control at least a quarter of a million dollars of my money. He's my personal attorney. And my business attorney. Do you understand how I use an attorney. I have great faith in attorneys probably but misguided in this it is not a professionally though Mr. Rimington was a good professional. But I have a strange set of circumstances when all of a sudden money changing hands is classed as money changing hands. That was Anaheim Hills money. I have financial transactions going back with a man for almost eight years. What I know what is Anaheim Hills and what is not. I can make the flat statement that

I did not receive any money of any legal fees from Michael Remington. I think maybe we ought to lay something to rest at this very point then. I just said I did not receive any money that was told to me it to be money of Anaheim Hills. Now I received money from Arrington because it's my money and I gave him money. I see well then what you're. Again let me ask another question just to lay this to rest. You're saying that in no way was there any consideration directly or indirectly ever given to you from anyone connected with Anaheim Hills as a return for any effort on your part to have twenty two hundred acres removed from agricultural patterns so they could develop. Absolutely not. Let's go further. OK we have to realize that it's been alleged by the way that I forced and I'm here to hire Michael Remington. Now that's fallacious. Then a lesser station then a conversation with Mr. Owen. He asks who does my legal work. First thing I know Remingtons doing theirs. I

had no I didn't urge him I didn't say do this or else. And I said How come you got that guy as they walked in and I said well fine good luck to you. You know let's talk about disqualification. You had protested that the district attorney was prejudiced and should that therefore I esteem druggists and so Judge Orange County Judge Philip Schwab on November 10th disqualified the district attorney precisely. He has since then fought that disqualification saying that he is not prejudiced and he had been joined by the attorney general of the state of California in that suit that doesn't saying that the attorney general joins him in that suit that he that they should actually that the state attorney attorney general should not prosecute. But that in fact it should be turned back to the district attorney when he was ready to go to appeal. Well I think that the judge showed a lot of foresight. But anybody who would been in the county for the last year would conceive that there have been a lot of bad blood between the district attorney's office and I regret

some of it and frankly I wish I would have been a little bit tougher in other issues. But however the judge did rule. Now they're questioning his competence and their appeal. Now I don't really know what's going to happen on a pal on appeal. I would rather be in my position. At least the judge has ruled that he is biased and prejudiced and the Attorney-General must prosecute. I don't care who prosecutes it. There's a constitutional question that we're fighting. I can get the district attorney as an any less competent or more competent than the A.G. But there's a feel here for everybody. If you understand what I mean there's constitutional guarantees that come into play. And if I would let Hicks try to prosecute me and his group I would feel that I've let down and that you can be a person in the district attorney and he insists succeed in doing these things. We need an impartial prosecutor and impartial that's part of the law. That's frankly one of my

arguments on the secret file system and so on according to investigators is that the district attorney accident a very unusual set of set of circumstances the police and other agencies bringing crimes to him. He makes the decision on whether those crimes whether there's enough evidence where there should be a prosecution and all the investigation against Raftery is strictly the district attorney's office. So where is the unbiased investigation and this so-called statement of saying OK there is no case there. They have investigated every phase of my activities. But your head I'm not stopping it. Do you welcome the trial. With with with gusto and Lee but not with I don't care who it is I fought the argue along it is not the district attorney by the way off take that if that's what that kind of court says. But I must fight for the constitutional guarantees are an impartial prosecutor. If a court rules that says that he is but I'm willing to accept that. Let's go back to California Political Reform Act of 1974 when everybody called Prop 9. Do you support it. You think that's a good law. Not totally. It's unconstitutional but I think that the

thrust behind Prop 9 is good. I think the law is badly written. Judge Powell rather judge Parke Stilwell on November 14th in Los Angeles declared that prop mine's unconstitutional for different reasons by the way that I have. I understand that but nevertheless it would it would have major bearing on your case or should be dismissed. Do you have any feelings any strong feelings about the you that you are ready to fight this case whether this is actually overturned or not because many people are saying that he will be overturned by a higher court and the Prop 9 will again be held we have a constitutional infringement cases pending in our current case. I believe that those will go to the Supreme Court to the matter who wins or loses. In summing this up. Certainly this has been a great drain on you your physical health how is your health by the way. Forget it I can't understand it I apparently I like that being in the trenches. Nevertheless you are one of five men who run a business the county business which now totals of five hundred forty four million dollar annual budget. It now has 10000 employees.

How much is this impeding the business of getting on with the conduct of the county's affairs. I suppose it's us it's a bother rather than one would be you have to be a fool to say not the other board members obviously are working very hard. And I also it just forces me into more night work that forces me to do it to respond to the constituency. I have so many obligations and duties under my position in the board that I keep representing Orange County that those duties go on. But it just means that I have to arrange night meetings with my attorneys I have to work on weekends with my attorney and because I really believe the people of Orange County deserve whatever talents I have and I should give them as much as I can. It has been a detraction. There is no question about that. In my mind at least my wife probably is not and my family are suffering more than than the people who are in Japan.

There have been 43 indictments now one of them a federal one in the case of former Congressman Richard Hanna but the others have been local indictments 42 indictments locally. What does this do to the whole political climate of Orange County to the image that elected officials have. I think you'd have to ask other elected officials out other counties but they convey to me what in the world goes on in Orange County. What do you tell them. And I said we have an interesting set of circumstances maybe we're coming of age. Obviously I say I don't believe that this return is totally right but I can I can have that opinion. Maybe he shares a different one but there's a strange thing that we must relate in all these indictments particular in mind. I don't know of any other district attorney in the state of California prosecuting under Prop 9. What does that say that they are going to turn to doing a good job or the other ones are doing a bad job. One would have to draw your own conclusion. I would think that you made the mention of the A.G. The AG attacks and fights all of the Prop 9 violations everyplace in the state. So why would he be a lesser

capabilities. So I really don't have any front problems I I can't. If there is wrongdoing I suppose the wrongdoers must be brought to the bar of justice somehow. But it seems an over indulgence or an over concentration on resources and energies to politicians. Now that's easy to say but I'm saying do you feel safe how many people have been burglars. I wonder how many of those kind of issues should be faced. Let's talk about what you feel would be the county's top priorities aside from these very big headlines that have been taking place about the whole arena of alleged wrongdoing and misconduct and all that. Let's talk about unfinished business in the county such as housing where the growth problems or criminal justice or campaign reforms by the way do you favor the use some of the campaign reform I was going to propose that three years ago there would be a county ordinance Yes. And I couldn't get the border supported at that time Now interesting enough the board members are supporting the fair campaign Practices Commission that I want to set up here locally that can advise and look at all campaign

trail not by the way some century just look at it if they thought it was unconstitutional they are at least fallacious. They could then make it a public announcement that the press would pick up. What about the movement to have an initiative in Orange County that would put in force some kind of can't I don't have any problems with that. I think that the the limits are not the governed tees that they should be. But see you can't really do all of the you know campaign reform is a very complex subject. But I could live in any environment that can be lived in. I have the abilities to understand the environment. But remember you're not going to solve all your ills by getting quote campaign reform because it opens the doors to problems as well as create some problems. How are you going to take incumbents out if you have limited campaigns. The income of Caesar going to state and I think that the American system as allows you if you want do or me if I want to spend as much money of your own resources to do whatever you feel

is competent and reasonable that you want to do. Is there anything that you feel that you have done morally wrong or legally wrong in the whole arena of these campaign flaps and whatnot. We have a new election coming up as you know on June 4th everyone in Orange County goes to the polls again for new people to be on the phone. Do you intend to take any kind of a part in this campaign. As far as any kind of funding I would imagine I would imagine that that there will be positions and situations that I would look at very judiciously. And it's possible that I will be in other campaigns. Would you do anything differently about handling the money or funneling the money or meeting I'm going to be a fool if that's considered different changes. But I'm not saying that there's necessarily And I'm going to do also or not do so that. You don't understand that when you have legal advice that says this is legal and then you're charged with a crime it makes a different game out of it. I don't believe that the crime as it is a crime but however we're going to argue that. I think that I frankly

don't think the court indictment ever go to trial. Let me ask about if you were asked to name two or three of the top priority issues that the county has to get on with what would you what would you housing the number one issue in my view and what's causing the housing. What's going to get done about that. Such as low cost housing such as the HCM housing for everybody there have it we have to consider that you know you can't build economic ghettos. What isn't the cost of housing now in excess of a hundred and ten thousand five hundred one is a new one hundred twenty one thousand I believe with the most. The average for a new price on overlong this coke and your sons and daughters and for that housing my Can't I know that and why why then there's the HCV money taking so long to get the money out that's an insignificant amount of money housing your money development money. Yeah but that's a that's an insignificant amount of money. The controversy that was raised recently is I think we need to do something on those issues that we're hitting in there but that isn't the whole housing issue what would you like to see done. We've done two things recently. We've got some bonus incentives

and we've got some major influxes on some major plans of people are really trying builders are trying to show us that they can hit the market. Those plants will surface in the next two months and I think that will be a major impact on the Casta cost of housing. Admittedly the product won't be as big as the as the hundred twenty one thousand dollar houses but I don't know about you. My father raised four children in a thousand square foot house and we will live there all 21 years. So I didn't do we have to have 2000 feet work where you know we're we're we're a country of excesses to bigger cars to bigger houses to big of everything. Maybe we're going to realize that I have to say good as small as good because that sounds too much like Jerry Brown. I have to comment that there is changes in our lifestyles coming in and everybody that doesn't realize that better realize that we are going to have to do what we have to Newhouse the elements have to come into play for the senior citizens not just put them up or get them in an area that is

away from the communities in the communities where they can afford undersell security to live there might mean high rises but it will be smaller places and I really don't know where the world is going on all these issues. But housing is the number one issue of Orange County. On that note we're going to move along. This has been a very candid interview with. Orange County Supervisor Ralph Dietrich on many many things including some of the trials and some of the charges which if you have any questions you'd like to have asked of anyone you've elected to office on the county state or federal level voters pipeline channel 50 Huntington Beach California code 9 2 6 4 7. We'll see that those questions get asked. I'm Jim Cooper. Thanks for being with us.