Focus on Education; International Women's Day

Welcome to Focus on Education, a series highlighting events, people and programs at the University of New Mexico. I'm Ann Nalene, filling in for Roger Kroth for the special edition of Focus for International Women's Day. With me is Dr. Jane Slotter, who is an associate professor in the History Department and the Acting Director of Women's Studies. Welcome to the eve of International Women's Day, Jane. What I'd like to do is ask you to talk about International Women's Day and some of the background that leads us up to the current women's movement concern and involvement in International Women's Day. Well, again, it's a very, very old holiday, established in, again, in 1997 for celebrated in 1988 and actually celebrated in this country in 1999 for the first time.

And it was originally created for two reasons. One was to give women a chance to demonstrate and to protest on their own behalf. But also, I think it's very important to recognize that initially, its primary focus was women's rights and to make the public aware of those kinds of things. As you move forward in time, the focus of the International Women's Day celebrations nationwide or globally will change. And I think you can see different things happening at different times. That gives us, of course, great opportunity because we can use International Women's Day here for whatever we want, whether it's for women's rights or to celebrate women who have done outstanding things in our community or to point to problems that we face. Can you do me an example of some of the different themes that have been in Women's International Women's Day? Well, as I say, the first one in 1999 in this country focused largely on women's rights and suffrage was, of course, a major issue then.

And so you had middle-class women and working-class women and all kinds of groups that were involved in that first celebration. By the 1920s, the International Women's Day had shifted the American Communist Party was, again, by that time formed, an important political force. International Women's Day in the context of that politics tended to focus more on women as workers or, you know, working-class mothers and that. But the day was always going to be tied to what the needs were. By the 30s coming out of the Depression, you had people that were, again, concerned about unemployment relief, about social security demonstrations around issues like that, about rising cost of living. So it changes from decade to decade, responding to the politics of the time. And one would assume that that happens here, too. I think the rebirth of International Women's Day as a major celebration is a result of women's movement. Right. So we reflect our own history, too. Yeah. And I think that in the 60s and early 70s, I mean, a lot of us first heard of International Women's Day and celebrated it really as a reawakening of women in terms of self-determination

and looking at our own past. I mean, I'm a historian, and I had absolutely no idea that there was this incredible legacy of International Women's Day that had been there prior to, you know, 1968 or whenever I was probably first involved. And I think it had, because it had become associated with a small sort of sectarian kind of political movement, which was not, again, it's either its intention or its origin. And so I think that we have kind of reclaimed it to be able to use it to make women speak to their own issues. I first heard about it in Latin America in 1970, and it was celebrated in the country I was in, and then it was in the newspaper I read that it was celebrated all over the world. And it was literally like, why don't we do it in the United States? The part that I like is its linkage with other women internationally, and it has that opportunity. And I think it becomes more of a general international focus, and also the focus on the bond march that the particular day, I guess, actually I think at first the celebrations were held

in different times, days to meet people's needs, clearly in this general time of the year, but the Russian Revolution had a lot to do with it too, because of the outbreak of demonstrations and discontent in March of 1917, started by women, which helped to, of course, push to the events that become cataclysmic in Russia. And so I think that it gained a kind of an international symbolism through that event that it might not have had before too. And you said you were talking earlier and said that it always had to be celebrated on Sundays for many, many years, because it was the only day that women weren't working. That's interesting. I mean, now it falls on Wednesday, and we are going to be celebrating it all during the week. I'm not sure what celebrations will be in the city or somewhere else on the weekend, but very definitely, we're going to be celebrating it on Thursday and Friday, so we are still moving it to our own convenience, but because it's going to be on the campus, we're focusing

on the campus, we're not going to be doing it on the weekends, which is interesting. Well, it's interesting, too, that actually over the past few years, if you're talking about community-wide, the television stations and other radio stations have, again, recognized that there is such a day, so it's become part of the popular parlance now, which probably wasn't a decade ago. I remember when we first started celebrating it, people felt that it was still too radical, political idea, not just that women were doing something, but because it was still linked with communism or socialism, because socialist countries take it so seriously as a holiday. And I think that now it really has become much easier. I mean, KU&M for a long time has done all day programming on International Women's Day. I mean, probably on and off, or I don't know how, but mostly continuously for the last 15 years of programming, it's been a real focus, so I'm real happy that they're going to be doing that tomorrow. You know, one of the things when it was first celebrated here in this country in 1999, one of the women who was involved in organizing that particular year, her comment was,

I mean, she was all in favor of doing this, but she said, you know, she said that I hope that celebrating this particular day does not serve as an excuse to ignore women for 364 days. And I think that that's, you know, always a danger that if you, well, will give you your one day of celebration, and then, you know, forget the real issues. Yeah. And I think that there are some significant kinds of issues. This year on International Women's Day, the day we will celebrate, we'll have a women's studies in the Women's Center sponsoring a luncheon on Friday that we'll have as a keynote speaker, Catherine Harris-Turino, and she's going to talk about women in research focusing primarily on women of color. And I mean, this is still a phenomenal problem for us, that we do not have, again, significant numbers of women of color who are in graduate programs. We do not have significant numbers of people doing research on women of color, even in our own state and women in Mexico.

And so I think that, you know, International Women's Day from our perspective then can focus on something that's key to us here. And there are other problems as well. The other side of it, I guess, is not only are we going to point to some of the things that we need to do, but we'll also celebrate women who have contributed. In this year, in particular, we're honoring four women who are alumna of the university, since it's the centennial, we thought this would be something good to do. And included, among them, will be people like Marjorie Bell Chambers, who is, of course, a UNM alum, and has spoken for women's rights on a broad scale. Part of, maybe we should step back for a second, part of the luncheon is, or rather the luncheon, is in the context of Crow, which is the colloquium on research on women, which was started eight years ago, in response to the fact that all women, particularly minority

women, but all women who were academics on campus, were not given a platform for their own research in similar degree to men. And the idea was that we would begin to celebrate and to talk about our own research on our campus so that students and faculty could exchange information, know that someone was doing similar work to yourself. I mean, you go off to a conference in New Orleans or San Francisco and talk to people who are doing your own kind of work, but there are people on this campus that we also have a great deal in common with. So it was organized originally by women's studies, I think, to begin to celebrate and to seriously look at the research that women were doing on our own campus. And it has flowered in many ways, and it's quite large now. In addition, this year, we're also sponsoring the statewide women's studies conference. And that was started 10 or 11 years ago, I think, in response to growing programs on women's studies, or courses on women's studies throughout

the state. And it was an express need by all of us who were working in very women's studies to have, once a year, a gathering place where we could discuss issues and problems. In those days, women's studies programs were starting in a lot of ways. And we had all the kind of financial problems and acceptance problems within the university. Now, the problems are somewhat different. It's still not a comfortable environment for most women within the university. And a new report has been issued that I want to get into in a little bit that talks about the difficulties of being a woman as a graduate student or as a faculty on the campus. Well, one of the things I think that the state Women's Studies Association does, it's very important, is to provide a communication and network. Because one of the peculiarities of New Mexico is its isolation. We are isolated from each other. We are isolated from other people, other institutions. And if you're in California, you've got many, many women who are doing work in gender and many women's studies programs and you drive 15 minutes

and you can meet with somebody, that doesn't happen here. And I was recently talking to the women at Eastern. And I mean, coming to this is a very important thing for them. They sort of, well, it's not always easy to get away, et cetera, but they will come. It's something that's a priority. Yeah. People come down from Highlands, come up from Las Cruces, Silver City. So we have broad representation in addition from the campuses in Gallup and Berlin. You know, back to the issue of the legitimacy of research on gender and a forum in which one can present that, which has been a traditional problem, and it's still a problem. That being, again, one of the reasons that Crow was first organized, I think that now we're in particular encouraging this as a forum for graduate students, doing research and we have so many of them now. I mean, the numbers have increased significantly, doing research on gender. But it's also interesting that we now bring people in from all over the country. In other words, they come here. I mean,

we have people from New Jersey last year who came and gave papers. And so it's no longer just a local meeting, you know. And that's happening. I mean, the Colorado women's studies, you know, their conferences, that same kind of thing. So I think these regional meetings are extremely important because number one, they provide that local opportunity, but also because they do give us a chance, I suppose, to connect with people in other settings and have them come and look at our situation and the uniqueness of this state and women and our problems in New Mexico, which are not necessarily the same as those in women in New Jersey. I want to take off on that. The American Council on Education has a commission on women and higher education. And they've recently put out a report calling for an increase in our concern and operating on issues surrounding women. And I want to read it because I want us to talk some more about it in terms of the New Mexico campus. So it's the American Council on Education, Commission on Women and

Higher Education. Issued a special report urging colleges and universities to adopt 15 guidelines that will improve the status of women on campus. The recommendations include correcting inequities and hiring, salaries and tenure rates, developing personnel policies that support children and families, giving special attention to sexual harassment, and encouraging and supporting new scholarship on women. And the report is available through the Publications Department for the American Council on Education. But what the report reflects and some of the other material that I've been reading is that the overt discrimination against women has begun to die down in the sense of some people are men are being taken to task for sexual harassment. They're being penalized for that. So in a sense the price has gone up to sexually harass a woman. Some salaries have improved and the university did a whole thing on equity for salaries last year. There's still a tremendous disparity.

But they're making an effort in that direction. What we see now is that we have a women's studies program. We have a women's center in the university. What we don't have is women moving through the ranks. And what in this is reflective of a national trend that women are not moving up into administration. Women are not moving up into the ranks of associate and full professor. Graduate student women are not getting funding to stay in school. And when they do stay in school they're still being considered adornments or they're still being talked about as if what their work is is really secondary to other people. So we're still seeing a tremendous amount of discrimination. But it's what it's interesting is that for instance I teach the course on sexism and education and we just started looking at this material and the students who are very aware were surprised at the kinds of statistics that we're pulling out and the kind of general concern for women. And then they start talking about their own experiences as women on campus. And in a sense of many of

them didn't know there were a lot of fellowships and scholarships. Within the College of Education we probably have more women than graduate programs than for instance arts and sciences. That we still have like I think it's nationally it's 32% of the PhD candidates are female where they're about they're over half in the College of Education and they're about they're a little less than half I think in arts and sciences for the master's degree. At the undergraduate level women in the College of Education are I think like 70% in arts and sciences I don't know. Are they it's about 50-50 or? Undergraduate. Yeah I would say about 50-50. Well actually I think the whole university it's slightly over 50% is a general. But what we're seeing is that women come through and get in to the university. They usually have higher grades as undergraduates when they start. They get fewer scholarships, fewer fellowships, fewer financial assistance. Once they graduate with their degrees fewer of them even though

their grades are usually higher, few of them come into graduate school. But nationally and I've seen it at UNM women come into graduate school with higher grades overall and they get fewer fellowships, fewer other kinds of financial aid. And then at the PhD level they're just the numbers are fewer and fewer. There's some interesting I mean what you're saying just provokes a whole lot of kind of sort of flashes and you know in my mind in terms of situations or conditions. But certainly the whole question of women having access to funding in the institution is something that's a major problem. And again a crucial area is the issue of daycare. You know you can give someone tuition waver but if they don't have access to daycare or whatever then it really doesn't matter a whole lot. I found it very interesting in the day of the big snow whenever that day was that the university started two hours late but APS and TVI had closed down for the day. I walked into my class

and the people that were there were the people who didn't have children. It was very clear that those mothers in that class at that point then had to you know had to stay home. So I mean there are these other kind of peripheral issues. But there are also some other kind of interesting statistics that over time certainly the number of women out of total PhDs is increased in the country and I suppose here too. But there was an article fairly recently in the New York Times showing that in an area like computer science the numbers have really not changed much. There was a kind of a surge in the late 70s and then not much more. And so we still have a situation in which this is not something that women are being encouraged to do. They are not necessarily welcomed nor do they feel comfortable in those areas. And I think that's a major problem. You know how do you create an environment? It's not just dollars, it's more. It's attitude and the kind of support. And those are problems I think the university is going to have to address. The other thing that I think is important

too is that we have been hearing great deal of conversation in the state about hiring minorities in the absence of minorities in faculty positions and administration. I'm always disturbed because I'm not sure that when people refer to minorities they're thinking also that they're women in that population. And if there is any population that is underrepresented at the University of New Mexico among faculty and among administrators it is Hispanic women or Native American women or Black women. In other words populations that certainly we could draw upon. And we're not seeing that happen here. In this report that I'm talking from minority women are the least represented. They're in the biggest double bind when they come on to campus. They face all the discrimination that women face in terms of not being taken seriously, not being accepted in terms of research, not being accepted often by students. And this happens on our own campus as well as elsewhere. That students

don't take women faculty as seriously as they take a man faculty and all the kinds of differences in terms of language and behavior and nurturing. I mean all those kinds of miscued behaviors that can happen. But in addition they are not taken seriously as minorities that they're taken as a token. And then when they act seriously and act according to their training they are considered very frightening to white men and women. And so that they really become their own subset in terms of what's expected of them, but also in terms of their ability to fight and to work within the university. So that they're discriminating against as minorities and they're discriminating against as women. And the double they get 10 years less often. There's just a whole rank of discrimination. In addition they're considered a perfect token because you can kill two birds with one stone as I was told on one hiring committee that if you have a minority woman this person can take the place of a minority

i.e. a man and of a woman. Therefore they don't need anybody else because you can do everything in this one fell swoop. What happens is that it's a natural setup. Every minority man or woman I know on this campus is overburdened in terms of committees but particularly the minority women. Every hiring committee, every big deal review committee or something on the campus. Once a minority woman not for her skills and expertise but strictly because they need color and sex. And she's she's just a very easy target. Then when these women say no, it's because they're arrogant. They're not appreciative. They're being stupid. And sometimes their own people are saying look you have to do it. And what the woman or the man is saying is I can't do it. I can't do every one of these. But in a sense it's this natural kind of setup. That means of course that there's less time for research. There's less time to do departmental exchanges. And that hurts people on the collegial level.

And minority people and particularly women are considered standoffish. Not overworked overburdened maybe a little cautious in terms of other people. But it's that whole thing if women are not willing to go along with anything in a department or hear the jokes or you know banter around then it's their to standoffish. And they're not included in the kind of collegial going to lunch or talking in the halls that goes on. There's a tremendous amount of discrimination in terms of that. And it's I mean it's so clearly there that in major reports now that look at the climate in a university for women. It's it's clearly written about now. Minority women students have a tremendously difficult time much more so for the same kind of reasons that we're talking about. I mean I think there are there are some things that can happen or are happening. Certainly the fact that the legislature did and did give us those minority fellowships last year. And that was expanded to include women.

I think it was the intent of legislators to include women. That was certainly important. And the the thing that became difficult about it was that they were going to be targeted for special fields. And so as soon as you did that then you automatically were going to exclude certain populations. I mean if you weren't in those areas so I think we've tried to address that. I don't know how much success. But that kind of thing can happen right now in the UNM 2000 committee which is preparing some sort of long range plans. The issue of affirmative action but particularly hiring of minority faculty, minority women faculty, women faculty has been addressed very directly. And you know there's some concrete things one can do in those in those areas. But I think we really have to think in long terms because if you for example decide well we you know we would really like to target a particular position for Hispanic women let's say. The problem is that the pools are

relatively small. I mean that does happen. So what we need to be looking at are schools in which there are significant numbers of Hispanic women students. And at the undergraduate and any when they begin graduate school I mean we begin talking to them at that point and say all right you know four years from now New Mexico will be very interested in you. I mean this is the way companies recruit. I don't know why the university can't do it as well. And I think you know California is doing it. Oh yeah and they come here and take our students. I mean that's what so so hard and we offer nothing for or very little for our students to stay here and continue. Many folks then come back later on but many don't and we do lose them to many other places. What's the the ASUNM has started a committee that you're talking about. ASUNM is the associated students of the University of New Mexico. Cheryl Matherly who's the vice president is again someone who has been involved in a whole range of women's issues. I think she was actually had some connections with the sexual

harassment policy as it developed etc. But she has decided and with the support of ASUNM I think that there should be a women's committee for the students and she is now organizing that and I believe the first meeting will be held. Actually it's interesting it's going to be on International Women's Day which is kind of appropriate. But to deal with some things like certainly the question of violence against women and the problems with that on campus. But also the just the whole again as you were referred to it the chili climate kind of phenomena in terms of comments that are made about women and how women are made to feel on campus that a lot of that often comes from ignorance of if nothing else and that there needs to be then a process of education. I for one I'm very encouraged that we now have a committee that's also talking about core curriculum and coming at it in different directions but I think one of the proposals will be that a required course for all students at this university will be a course that is again gender and race focused.

You know the College of Education and particularly one department has a multicultural component which is either to take an ethnic studies or a women's studies course. I don't think it's college wide but we do try to push it in many departments. I think the university needs that university wide. San Diego State has it. I remember interviewing yeah a lot of schools. I remember interviewing candidates for different jobs through the years and finding out that they're already doing this in different places. Okay the one population on campus we really haven't talked about is staff and they constitute such a large proportion women constitute such a large proportion of staff on campus. What's happening with them? Well first of all I think that the staff themselves are trying to organize there is going to be a staff council that the university is going to deal with and certainly women have been instrumental in creating that. And I think there are now more concerns about studying the position of staff women about reviewing personnel procedures, about looking

at any of the kind of benefits that are available to staff women. I mean it's really an astoundingly abysmal situation to work with this institution. The pay is so low. Hispanic women are lumped at the bottom and they constitute a very large percentage of that population. The benefits are not good. The maternity leave for example you know you have to be here in a period of time and it usually works the other way it's the young women who need it and it's the older people who have been here and don't need it and who can get it. I think there are just a lot of issues that I think that we all need to be addressing. I mean I think every chance we get faculty women and the students we need to raise consciousness about women's staff. Well thank you very much for coming. This is Dr. Jane Slotter who has been with us talking about International Women's Day and the climate for women on campus at large. I'm Dr. Anne the Lynn. Thank you very much and happy International Women's Day tomorrow. If you would like a cassette of this program or more information on this subject call area code 505-277-4806. That

number again is area code 505-277-4806. Focus on education is produced by Larry Cronin of KUNM Radio in Albuquerque and Roger Crowth of the College of Education at the University of New Mexico.