Interview with Larry Littlebird and Allen Ginsberg

In the studios today with us is a very distinguished guest indeed, Larry Littlebird. Welcome to Singing Wire, Larry. Good afternoon, Anthony. It's nice to be here. And Larry, of course, as many of you may or may not know, is a very fine audiovisual production person and poet storyteller and the list just goes on and on. And tell us, who do you have here with you today, Larry? Anthony, I have friends of mine. We've come down from Santa Fe. We're on our way to catch a plane. Mr. Allen Ginsburg, very good friend of mine, who is visiting Santa Fe and the region again. We're the opening of a show of photographs of his that was up in Santa Fe just this past weekend. And another friend is now a Japanese poet who's here from Japan. And along with Allen is a student of poetry from China, Jack.

And with Allen, would you introduce Jack, please? Jack Shuai Shu is taking his doctorate in New York at the University of the City of New York. Mr. Shuai, maybe you speak yourself for yourself. Hello, I'm Jack. So I am very glad to have this chance to speak to you. I'm very much impressed about the culture of the people here. This is my first visit to the United States. Close the first, of course, visits to New Mexican and very impressed, I wish to come back again. Thank you. And tell us, Larry, what all these wonderful talents are doing all together here in New Mexico? We're just hanging around, just hanging around meeting each other. Good bowl of chili and super beer, though.

We went up to yesterday, and then now, and I, and Jack, and some friends went up to Ocaliente, and took a bath, and drove around up through trutches, because Jack Shuai had never been in New Mexico, and remember the vista, the view, all the way, thousands of miles clear sight in every 10,000 miles in every direction is an old image in Chinese poetry. Everything clear for 10,000 miles in each direction visible. So the nearest thing we have to that in the United States is the view from the vast sky, and Indian lands, actually, in New Mexico, and I thought that would be the most striking thing we could do here is look, look into space. So tell us now about some of the works that you gentlemen do, Larry, what you want to do? Because part of the American Indian Cultural Society Incorporated, which is the new corporation that we have in Santa Fe, when I found out that Alan was coming, and was going to be here for a short while, and then when I had the opportunity to also invite, and now,

and Jack, it tied right in because one of our purposes for the corporation is to acquaint people with what, a concept that we call parallel living, and what this concept is is taking our Indian tradition of pueblo culture, and developing it so that this continuum, this richness that we have, becomes useful in the present for a way in which people can relate to the environment in a more personal manner. And so what I invited them to come down and speak with me about today, we're not only just some of the memories that we have about getting together the first time in New Mexico, but also sharing some of their thoughts and some of their ideas about this ecology, about this environment.

And so that's what we really gathered here for this afternoon. Now tell us a little bit about when you first met. Well, I get to talk to that, I would say agree that probably the one single theme that we all have in our brains in common is how to defend the earth, the ecological fix that everybody is in, which I imagine the Native American peoples are much more conscious of than city people like myself, but it's also been an understanding that I've gathered for many years, both from Nanau, who is a sort of a man who walks around a lot and has lived in New Mexico a lot, lived in caves here, but also from Larry visiting his pueblo center of the Mingo and knowing his brother Harold. But I think originally what happened was Larry was a friend of a really interesting poet in San Francisco, Michael McClure. And I think we met first in San Francisco, didn't we? That's right. Yeah, it was in 59, somewhere 58.

And then there was another poet, friend of ours, who was a specialist in Native American lore and woodsmanship for the West Coast, that's Gary Snyder, who was friends with Nanau and had been friends with me a long time. So we're kind of a ecological gang of a kind, poetry ecology gang. And I remember when I first met Larry, actually he was the first of American Indian or Native American that I ever actually had a heart to heart talk with, find out what was going on in his consciousness or get some glimpse and try and relate my own experience to his. And we found it wasn't that far apart that the attack on nature that we witnessed in our century was also an attack on feeling, an attack on soul or an attack on human nature too. And so there was a kind of mutual sensitivity. And then he gave, for me, a present, a necklace that his grandmother had made, I believe.

One of my relatives had been gone. And I was very moved by that, because first of all, I didn't have any jewelry to begin with. And this was a very simple thing, what they made of, the little round, strong teeth, it looked like a, almost a living thing, like a, like a serpenter or a worm. A made of shells, perfectly round and close together. Very close together. You see time. That's right. You see time. I never seen that kind before. It was just like a whole art I didn't know about, it was very nostalgic and familiar instantly. And I still have that. No, I know, I know for an instant that in the Japanese culture, it is also in their culture to give away things, is that, is that not the so? In Japanese culture, it is also in your nature of natural folk ways to give away things. Oh, no.

No, I don't think so. But I know there, because I have dealt with a number of Japanese and Asian students. Okay. For me, more interesting is, I knew people, minority of Japan, their way, much more interesting. In these days, Japanese people are just a slave of money. It's terrible. Yeah. I knew what the equivalent of the Native Americans of Japan, the Native Japanese of Japan. They're very old. They're in the Northern Ireland. Those are Ireland. And probably they come through Siberia, many many years ago. So we're talking about some of the people from Sendai, around the northern part of Japan, around Sendai. Uh-huh. Oh, okay. Do you spend a lot of time there now? Yeah. I live with them. And I drown their song with them.

Yeah. In fact, you sang one the other night. Can you sing it now? Yes. Okay. From, from, uh, I knew people. Thank you very much. Stay tuned for the quablo version. You probably heard of the buffalo dance next winter. And as for now, brain washed by numerous mountain streams, legs clean after walking for our continents, eyes cloudless as Kagoshima, Japan, sky, fresh, raw, surprisingly cooked

heart. Tongue, live as a spring salmon, Nanao's hands are steady, accent pen, sharp as old stars, voice from the old earth. Oh, thank you. That's a little poem I wrote to put on the back of Nanao's book of poems, Break the Mirror. We've known each other also. Actually, almost as long as I've known you there, since 1963, Japan and Kyoto, I've met Nanao. Yeah. So then, then I came here, I think, for the first time in 65. Yeah, it was about 65, 60, 60 years, driving across country with Robert Creley, probably, and I stopped over. Right. You came up from Albuquerque. Right. I was living in El Rito at that time. Yeah. But what brought you into a place such as New Mexico? I mean, why not Iowa or Wyoming?

Why New Mexico? Well, in Iowa, there's a very famous poetry school, but they only teach academic poetry. Whereas out here, there are Native American storytellers, singers, an ancient, more ancient poetry, and more earth down the earth, and more connected with what I'm interested in, which is my own delicate sensibility, senses, and in the earth itself. And I think of that time we went down to visit your family. Yes, that was one. And in the sense of the Mingo. Right, yeah. That's the first time I'd ever been in a pueblo before. So I was felt privileged having some entrance or some door to something I had not grown up with at all, because I came from Paterson, New Jersey, which is the industrial cancer or heartland of America, actually. So do you have something to poem of some sort that recalls on that time in your life? No, I have a lot of poems.

Actually, covering that time, but it's in a big collective poem that I didn't bring along. But what I have with me is a kind of funny thing that's influenced it in a way, but a dream I had of meeting old Mother Earth as a bag lady in the cities, sort of like an Indian grandma, but a bag lady in the cities in the singing. And it's so, it's called Grandma Earth Song. And it's from a dream, so it has a beginning and end of a dream. I started down Capitol Hillside along unfamiliar, black folks, central avenues, wearily, uncertain which way through Fillmore District to City Hall Valley Center, and as I passed a blocker to I saw a fragile old chrome marching towards me up the hill, grandma, bag lady in a ragged dress with firm, ancient steps, old Mother Earth dragging a shopping cart filled with cans, bottles and plastic newspapers tied with silk stockings, wandering alone, singing out loud

on her way to the City Hall. This is what she's saying in the dream. When doll routes write laws, Jerusalem to New York, poor Jews break Arab jaws, black seat, greasy pork, what's the planet news, Wall Street's poison pill, Palestinian stone Jews, water runs downhill, young soldiers gone and I, old presidents get AIDS, they bankrupted the sky, the ozone layer fades. Daisy people got money, I own state capitals, sheriff calls me honey, the army's a bunch of fools. I want my welfare stamps, I want my movie show, I got ten kerosene lamps, I'm ninety-nine years old, this town's already dead, this country's on the skids, this state's made out of lead, I can't feed my kids. My name is grandma Earth, ha ha, put me in jail, I'll screw this guy, nothing to lose,

Papa, born you're gonna die, Adam bombs and news boy hoaxes, takers yak the oval room, I live in cardboard boxes, they kill in the ocean's womb, tear up your welfare check, I'll eat my way to heaven, throw me down, I'll reogra and I'll vomit, Caribbean ocean. Wicked-ing as she passed by, I thought she's improvising some kind of ancient street dog girl, epic poetry, popular song, cackling in everyone's immortal brain, anything that comes to mind the right politics to ruin the military police state. I like to contrast that with this and I think this is the kind of thing that Alan was referring to when we first met because we were able to share from vastly different perspectives but there was something that was holding us together there, cold water spirit. Stories are sacred and real and the storyteller is a consecrated person.

In the early New Mexico morning before the yellow light of dawn, the wind sweeps gently through the high mesa flats, I was little and I remember waking up hearing the battered corrugated tin shade catch in the wind. It was loosely tied with wires to long wooden poles above the doorway of the little stone in mud house that was my grandpa's sheep camp. My bare feet touch the cool dirt floor as I rushed to dress and be out into the new morning before he would call, get up, wash with cold water, it'll make you tough and handsome like me. In that early Pueblo Indian childhood on the reservation, the word was still sacred to me. I grew up in that world of tending sheep and seeing the land, discovering that life for our people continues in the telling of stories. That language is a gift of God and when a story is told we are given a way to learn and to live. A child wakes up believing in the world he finds himself in and for a long time I believed everyone had stories to guide them like I did.

Forty years later I now see much as lost or being forgotten about the telling of stories. We are now living in a time when the storyteller is no longer a human being disciplined by life but can be anyone with a facility for language, anyone who can turn words cleverly for their own ends, never fearing that such willful action is wrong or that thoughtless words obstruct the life vision. Where I grew up the storyteller was still a consecrated person. We had some similar notion of the poet. We had an idea of the poet in western civilization as being what the unacknowledged legislator of the race or something of a prophetic character. Not that he had to be touched by any supernatural mystical miracle but that he was honest and so he could look in his heart and tell the wounds and the pleasures there and the tears and the grief particularly as an American and then pronouncing that allowed bring the

same emotions and awareness up for other people so that the prophecy came from knowing his heart himself and knowing his own nature. I think there were traditions of thousands of years of storytelling also in China, Jack Shuai, we were talking in the car before, what was the role of the old storyteller in China? Well, chiefly it's for entertainment but as everybody knows it's kind of education you get from your grandfather, grandmother and then you get from the professional storyteller which is a very effective way of putting in the right way of appreciating nature, appreciating life so it's very fascinating to ask. Where does the professional storyteller operate in a town, does he come to your house, in

a bar, in a tea house, what? Well, actually it's in tea house. What do they look like at tea house and what do they have any instruments with them? Unfortunately, I was born in 1960s so I know nothing about the ancient Chinese professional storyteller but I know something about the modern ones. They work in tea house with the kind of bamboo pieces in their hands, they constantly arouse the audience attention with that. Also they increase the acoustic effect and it creates many kind of imitative noise with their mouth, with their bamboo pieces. That's tening the heroic stories of the Chinese ancient history and also. Similarly to what some of the storytellers from New Mexico did. Yeah, that's what fascinated me on the way here, we were talking about this on the car with Larry Diverberg here, we were comparing the difference and the similarity of the story tening professional way between China and Indian here.

It's very fascinating. The Chinese storyteller has a couple of bamboo sticks which he slaps together on the table to make a point sometimes, or to... Yeah, that's it. Is there any kind of, with the American Indian storyteller, is there any special apparatus you have a feather or bow or... Well, in different travel groups, yeah, there are a lot of people have a bag, a leather bag, and they allow people to open the bag and to reach in and inside the bag, there are these objects. The objects have stories that are related to them, so that's one way in which a story is told again, or else the object is passed around among the people and the story can evolve from the people touching these objects because people will remember parts of the story and so the stories get told, re-talled again that way. Among the I-New of Japan, are there, are there a tradition of a storyteller...

Yes, they're using some stick, yeah, like Australian aborigines. And they speak rhythmically with their stories? They tell their stories with rhythmical sticks. Yes, they're very sacred and ancient stories. Yeah, yeah. Almost like a song. What types of themes? What types of themes and stories do you think... It's like a bare wife story, you know, bare wife, sometimes the wife of a bear, right? Right, kind of story, changing personality into an animal, right, and sometimes to God. It's free, you can be God, you can be an animal, you can be human being. It's all the spirit and to sleep. And which is similar again reflects the Native American culture and some of the beliefs that we have of the spirit going in.

And what some may call inanimate objects, of course, to the Indian people, we all have that spirit and that all has a certain meaning in life that we all appreciate and respect. And I think that's another kind of similarity. In some way. The only thing in Western and white culture close, you know, it actually is Walt Whitman, who has a kind of universal spirit and so identifies with a lot of different spirits, like he has a little poem to the common prostitute, which says, not till the sun rejects you, do I reject you? Or so throughout the catalog of all of the visions that he has in his poetry, he keeps identifying with all different kinds of people, all different kinds of animals and all different spaces and stars and galaxies and things of himself as the stuff that galaxies are made out of and the stuff that stars are made of also. That's the nearest in Western imagination to the same spirit. Larry, do you have something that you want to share with us now?

Well, I was just in keeping with that. I believe that's why we're beginning this corporation and with this whole concept of parallel living. It's really to share with people how to develop that relationship. I mean, Whitman, of course, found his and all of that knowledge is all around us, is here. And we're part of that as tribal people, but it hasn't done us a whole lot of good until now when I believe that the world is crying out for some way to have that personal relationship where you can discover that water or stones can be your mother or your, you can have it be related to them just as you are related in blood to the kin that you do have. Now what, what have you learned in all of this? You mean my trip or my listening to the stories?

You mean you're listening to the stories and you're gathering from other cultures other than the Chinese culture that you've grown up with? Oh, well, this is something that made me very excited about. It's my trip to here when I'm at some perverse, yesterday I went very close up to the houses and then noticed there is a special house without cement surface on it. And that one struck me very, I don't, I don't, I don't be, I don't be a house, very similar to the Chinese structure. We had almost the exact same thing actually before I came to the States. I kept wondering, what is the relation between the red Indians and the Chinese people? I kept saying to myself, hey, we have brothers there. And then my actual experience yesterday just confirmed that. I feel so comfortable and even fancy sometime in future I would like to move here.

What's the name? Remember you had a word? Oh, yeah, yeah, actually I was talking to one of the Indian people who were sending the... Send it to a council, I think we were. I think, yeah, I think he was sending the artistic pottery there. So you guys were at the arts and crafts? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a chat with him, I asked him about the name of the house, they say, it's a toll pay in English, right? A toll pay. A toll pay in English. But in Chinese we have almost exact the same pronunciation as to pay, to pay, to pay, you recognize the similarity between the pronunciation. So I was asking, well, what is the original name for this? I wonder, actually I found out this is just kind of a Spanish name and somehow Spanish adopt this son and Spanish got this son from somewhere else. More or more, maybe. Yeah, more or maybe.

And then this son has such a close seminary to the Chinese son and then he told me there is a native son for toll pay house, right? I don't know what, that's a different pueblo up there. Possibly, possibly, yeah. What would it be in the sense of the mingling? It would be, it would be, it would be, it would be a word for, for mud. I'm not sure what, what exact the word would be. Well, in our language it would be nahu, nahu, that's in tiwa, tiwa, tiwa, yeah, it's pronounced nahu, those are, that's the actual name for the adobe nahu, nahu. And what is to pay in Chinese, what are the root, what does that mean? Okay, we say to pay, to means earth, clay, pay means pieces, to pay together means clay pieces. Like clay bricks, yeah, clay planks, without, without burning, it's just after you format, dry it, you just piled up to make a wall.

And another thing struck me very deeply is our, there are many people in one village here, let's say in one purple here, that struck me as purple, struck me as very healthy. In China we have the problem, we have too many people there, even in the small village, we have so many overcrowded people there. So I think life here is really wonderful. Thank you. Larry, is there something that you wanted to, I know you, I noticed you were going to throw something in there, was there something you wanted to say? No, I'm just fascinated by listening to, listening to Jack talk, because there are, there are stories that we have of, of, of the people who are, who are in the orient, as being older brothers, being, being related to, to us here. And it's, there are stories which, which talk about the world, the planet earth, when

it, when it was not in the same, the same, the structure, the structure was not the same. The, the, the polar caps were in different, different positions, and then, and so, the, these are very, ancient kinds of stories, and that, and that, the Chinese have recorded them, they're written, they're written. Yes, and that, and that, at some point in history, as, as, as we, as we make, make, contact again, that, that these stories are going, are going to emerge, and they're going to come out of this, this Chinese text, which, of our origins, of our, that, that's what they really are. Yeah, the origins. So do you have a story that, that, that, that maybe you have picked up, or that, that, is there a common story that's told among the, the Chinese children, or something similar to what you, you've been experiencing here?

As far as the stories themselves are concerned, I have no memory of that, but, you know, somehow I got the picture, or I, I'm not sure whether this is part of the history, or just the fictional imagination there, um, people say, back from very earlier time, we are the, we're in the same, belong to the same family, and then somehow, some people moved from, uh, the, northern end of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the atmosphere, and cross the, cross the, then connected, uh, stretch of land, came to the America, and then that's why, we are, brothers, so much alike, actually I, um, I, I find the physiological aspect of our face, so, so, so similar to each other, the living stars, so familiar with each other, when I was in China reading Ados Huxen's book called The Brave New World, I was just simply fascinated by his description about the right Indian perverse, um, or even though

he's describing it in a little bit, uh, a negative way, or that's to say, the modern Western civilization would think that's backward, but I recognize it kind of pastiveness in it, but at the same time, what I, what fascinated me is the similarity of the life of the red Indian, the Indian people, and the Chinese country's style, not the city life, city life everywhere is corrupted, you know, it's just the same thing, um, I have a song, an ancient song on the subject, by William Blake, hear the voice of the bard who present past and future seas, whose ears have heard the holy word that walked among the ancient trees, calling the lapsed soul and weeping in the evening dew, that might control the starry

soul and fallen, fallen light renew, oh earth, oh earth, return, arise from out to doy grass, night is worn, and the mourn rises from the slumbest mass, turn away no more, why will thou turn away, the starry floor, the watery shore, is given thee till the break of the day, that's 1796, William Blake, that's very good, yeah, that is one I haven't heard in a long time, oh earth, oh earth, return, an oldy man of goody, yeah, Larry, do you have another story that you'd want to share, nothing this afternoon, I can't think of anything

or I know, would you have a story that I think it's a better one song, another song, yeah, you too, okay, one thousand years old the song, good, why I know that, why do you know that, right, so what is the name of the song, alphabet song, okay, and how old were you when you learned that song, how old were you when you learned that

song, one thousand years, there's only a thousand and twenty-five now, Larry, I remember you taught me a song years ago, do you remember that, I don't remember what just some buffalo song, good to see you, yeah, I heard something about a buffalo song here, yeah, private or was that something, I don't remember, I don't remember, because what I recall was the evenings that we had around the fireplace where there were many, many songs, so the evenings that I remember, my first connection with any kind of a clear idea of what Indian music was, or Native American music was, some singing I heard you do and I began trying to imitate it over the years, but I'm not supposed to, sure, sure, it was supposed to be done

in public, more Armstrong does a lovely job of imaging, doesn't have it quite down yet, but do you have another story that you would know, I bet there's some ancient song he knows from China, but I bet you there is, sure, from the computer, from the chookie, from the book of songs, do you know anything you know, well, actually there is a book called The Book of Songs, it's also translated as The Book of Poetry, there are many, many famous verses there, but you know, the music is lost, almost nobody except those professionals who can just make some kind of tune out of it, so I'm not professional, so I'm not ready for that, so what can you, what can you, children's song, children's song, okay, actually I was attending Anna, I did not have a happy child who memory, but some part of it is very wonderful, I have a child's song here,

I don't know whether that will strike you, okay, let me try to remember it, I have to say that in Chinese, okay, okay, okay, that is, child's son are describing the fox, are singing at the gates of the house of a rabbit and saying, well, little rabbit, please open the door and then the little rabbit said, well no, my mama, my mama is not home, I won't open the door until my mom sees home, I'll do it one more time, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, that's sort of why, that's very similar to Native Americans, right, there are so many,

there's so much to learn with such cultures that come together that can relate on one ground and in doing so, the stories and the music brings us together in one because it doesn't matter where we come from, we can all relate in something like this and I believe in you, do you have a children song, I think there's one that I heard a long time ago and it went, Haruno Uranano, okay, it's not children's song, okay, western style Japanese composer made up many good songs, that's one of my favorites, okay, this song, okay, what does it mean, it's running through Tokyo, now very dirty, about 100 years ago, very clean water and everybody

goes by boat to see cherry flowers, oh yeah, so cherry blossom, yes, cherry blossom time, very famous songs, yeah, yeah, that was one of the first songs I learned, I have a lot of Japanese friends, from around Japanese, oh yeah, that, and then I was learning something, you see the easy, I heard it, I heard it, it's children's song, yeah, yeah, I heard it, but I was listening very carefully, yeah, sure, yeah, there is a, well you know the other song that now reminded me of earlier was that that one that any people

have used here made into a Buffalo song, I don't know, you know the song that you, yeah, yeah, yeah, Chinese style Japanese songs, okay, Native American, we went to Japan, from Korean war, or the second world war, and they learned some Japanese songs, they brought back to here, and they said, this is Japanese song, I tell them, yes, this is our song, that was this, yeah, made in Japan, but the style is completely Chinese, yeah, so now, happy,

nabaho, zunni, everywhere, people singing this song, just hours, oh now I say, it's okay, yeah, actually it's common property of human race, do you know the Chinese, yeah, exactly, yeah, I remember that one, yeah, that's a very famous Japanese song, that one I just said, yeah, I think they come from the Mexico, no when I said sharing culture, I I didn't mean sharing each other's stuff on to you. We're going a little too far now, guys. Oh, well, gentlemen, it's been a pleasure

having you here. Oh, OK, we've got another. OK, great. Well, I have a song I wrote, but it's much more highly developed over-sophisticated Western so we'll go back to time. But about ecology, about your present situation in Europe, when I wrote it in Warsaw, Poland, after visiting 1986, after Chernobyl. All over Europe, people are saying, who knows? Asfidel's fine but next year, what comes with the rose? Cabbage smells good, but depends which way the wind blows. All over Europe, people are saying, who knows? Who knows? Wormwood's geysel poison the sea, revelation. From Oslo to Athens, black clouds of enlighten the nations. Cecium mushrooms and milk may mutate the creation. All over Europe, people are saying, who knows?

Who knows? Woke up in Poland, may believe just wilted down. Not a cloud in the sky inexplicably cold on the ground. Kids in the yard were playing without any clothes. All over Europe, people are saying, who knows? Who knows? Fond up the doctor, official reply, never mind. Same afternoon, suggested we take iodine. Three days later, Chernobyl's errors disclosed. All over Europe, people are saying, who knows? Slot heard the reindeer in Lapland, laps on the dole. Camembert radioactive in Zurich, the gold. In the cotswolds of England, all the sheep markets were closed. All over Europe, people are saying, who knows? If a leader of waters won X-ray in Washington state,

so in milk bars of Minsk, what does it cost a milkshake? Big apples this year, we still have to eat up what grows. If we didn't eat poison, we'd starve, brother. Everyone knows. A wonderful song. Well, I hope it's not the last song on Earth. So Larry, tell us, gentlemen, where are you off to now? You are on your way to catching a plane right now. I think I'm going off to Colorado Boulder, and the Naropa Institute of Tibetan Buddhist Contemplative College, where I teach poetry, and where lots of our friends have been in and out. You've been up there, Larry, have you ever been up there? Well, you get there sooner or later, I'm sure. No, now it's been in and out a lot. And Jack is going to give a lecture on Chinese poetry, and Gary Snyder, whom I mentioned, has been there. So, Jack, you're still having given us anything besides the children,

and didn't you have any poetry with you? Oh, well. I do not have, I do not have any of our poetry in English. No, we want Chinese. That's okay. We all speak Chinese. What does it sound like in Chinese? OK. Sunggu, tongue dynasty. OK. I would like to just recite a tongue dynasty poetry poem with four lines. Very short. In his tongue dynasty. That's an 800 AD. Actually, this poem is by Lee Paul, the very famous Chinese tongue poet. I recite this poem because I'm away from my country on that field. A little bit homesick, even though I have great time here with so many people from so different cultural background. OK, this poem is about the moon. It goes like this. Chuan Qian, Mingyue Guang, Nhi Shi, Di Shang Shuang. Tai Tau, Wang Mingyue.

Di Tau, Shi Gu Xiao. Means, at the side of the frost on the ground, I thought it was frost, and then I raised my head to look at the moon, and then I dropped my head, think of my hometown. And you are on your way to Colorado, not home, huh? Well, no. Hope, up to now, I stay here for seven years as a student, then I may go home. It's a long time. Well, yeah. And now where's the now going? And now where's the now going? I'm going to Taos Mountain for Masuyung Hanting. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Who are you going with? Are you going by yourself? Oh, somebody. In Taos. Somebody. Maybe Coyote. OK. That's it. And Larry, where are you going? Next.

I'll probably be following Coyote somewhere also. As we all do one time or another. Of course, in Japan, the temple is not to Coyote, to Fox. Yeah. Who is Fox in Japanese? Who is Fox? In Jesus' days, we must, we poet, must be ninja. Ninja. Ninja. I think the closest I've been to any temple is the temple up in Santa Fe, which was a great deal of interest to myself. And, gentlemen, I would like to very much thank you for joining us at Singing Wire and sharing our cultures together for not only ourselves, but the listeners of Indian Country and those who are just interested and who I know definitely have learned from this discussion today. Om Ah Om. Thank you very much.

Jack Dotset. And Nyoi Gankereska. Thank you. Oh, excuse me. It would be Domo Arigato. Gozimasa. Right? Yup. Okay. And I don't know how you send a mingo say, I'll see you later. Thank you very much. We'll see you later. Thank you very much. Thank you, gentlemen, for stopping by. All right. And that will, of course, conclude the segment of Singing Wire. We have not had a gentleman like this ever at the studios here and it was a pleasure indeed. Do join us. Stay tuned. Thank you very much.