Inflection Point with Lauren Schiller; #24; Gloria Steinem on her Life On The Road & Dr. Lina Nilsson on How to Attract Female Engineers

thad thad welcome to engage in conversations with women changing the status quo i learned today an inflection point as women continue to push for equality in the workplace the recession isn't always so great why does it matter how many women are engineers maybe just maybe the real rain is better engineering and female bring that to me is the obvious answer but what's really holding us back no we haven't authorities in the world today on as much an engineer i mean any of them and feminist icon gloria steinem this spring the new york times ran an op ed piece called how to attract female engineers the author dr lina nielsen started isolating a few

facts an apple twenty percent of tech jobs are held by women and a google only seventeen percent across the country about fourteen percent of engineers in the workforce are women dr nelson is a biomedical engineer when she wrote the op ed she was the innovation director of the blood center for developing economies at uc berkeley and in twenty thirteen she was named in mit technology review innovator under thirty five for her work meaning us and joins us to day or having learned so glad to have you here and we know the numbers of women in engineering are typically very well and that you had a different experience with an engineering program that attracted fifty percent women at the palm center why was that so successful do you think it was successful because of the branding of the program and their rationale for the program so the program is called development engineering and purposes to create engineering solutions for the betterment of society and so there was no no special component of the program notes about attracting women are drawing them into something that

happened by accident i think that's part of why it was so powerful to me i do think it was a system play in the name or the way that it was described i think the name is a signifier of what the content of the program instead it's about hardcore engineering and the math and the coding and everything in its engineering engineering but it's also about every day being aware of why you're doing that engineering and what the impact of people in the real world this so you wrote this op ed in the near to ryan's am about what you learned from this experience and said that if the content of the work itself is made more societal a meaningful women will enroll in droves and you validated the bomb center program with other universities you tell us a little bit about what you learned just because i'm sure you were thinking as the some weird anomaly when you sell a one off so how did the other universities that's right so we contacted universities all over the united states and every single one that replied with seemed exciting trend that we were that it's approximately a doubling in the number of females in rolling and programs to me a really clear what the societal impact

was because we don't have the up dead in front of us and some of our listeners may not have seen a doubling of limited to go dead after this dish could you elaborate a little bit more about what your position is the end in that up and the idea here is that we need to show with the societal impacts are of engineering the meaning is doing engineering work that that needs to be made explicit to students so some of the comments i had about the op ed was well all engineering have societal impact and and this is true some of it is more clearly positive than others but it is true to them much of engineering of course is beneficial to society building bridges are creating new ways to communicate with your phone et cetera but that's not always clear when you're eighteen you're picking where you didn't go to college so i'm not really advocating for just you know a special category of humanitarian or development engineering although that's where we saw these trends in ish initially when advocating for is that we in general should incorporate the societal benefits of all engineering into curricula so that the us really transparent to students really clear is that student's

to motivate by these benefits are also encouraged to apply to take part to be engineers or so as the money myself who is not an engineer has never taken an engineering class and who ran screaming from you do you think you've done it what are some of the benefits of being an engineer or what we can and what is engineering do for society and i think we have this vague notion of it everyone uses engineering products every day right i mean how will our listeners are on their smartphones right now what they're using navigation systems and the cars are the cars themselves for that matter the payments and other drug you're driving on appliances in your house engineering is all around us all the time so it's not that it's hard to find is that it's also a pubic interest that we don't even think about it i think bring the program at uc berkeley to build an engineering and so the other problems i contacted it's also about having a global view so about

medical solutions to neglect a deceased sister off grid energy options seemed parts of africa that's currently off the grid water solutions course of a show there are in the coming decades probably gonna face huge forests are shortages and engineering in that context is what you argue it hugs more women be more interesting ad but i think and i think a lot is arguing that there's evidence that working all these typical rooms across the us so i know we know that you got a lot of him may all as a result of reading this are bad about making engineering more meaningful and you discovered a pattern and how the raiders interestingly been a lesser eight i got a lot of mail also lots of mail and being an engineer i try to come up with a heuristic of a shortcut to understand all this a male coming in to save myself all the time and i discovered i was a pattern in the salutation unhappy i was addressed in these in these letters so on some

people called me professor nelson others address me as dr wilson's and some people address me as ms nelson along with a few other ways to address so it's the person said dear professor wilson in all cases except one they were very positive to the article if you said dr wilson could go either way most about a fifty fifty split and everyone it started with ms nielson it was negative and then there are some hey ladies and alec there are the listener guess if you're a pastor and i was actually a surprising number of male engineers who were very negative to the idea and female india's lot of engineers so comfortable with the idea that we were discussing gender in the context of engineering there's a bitter brew we read a couple of letters shirt and death only a couple of the letters some of the ones they're appropriate for radio year ago i guess what i don't understand is why doesn't matter how many women are engineers why are so many people so obsessed with

this kind of stuff maybe just maybe the male brain is better engineering than the female brain that to me is the obvious answer but common sense seems to have disappeared from our society decades ago there's also the huffington post article where the title is stop asking why there are not more women in tech start asking what value they can bring all that basically saying that are close enough in composing should take a step back in humans you or why should we even be talking about this topic and i was surprised by the number of people who questioned the value of having at most participate and to me it's really obvious because engineering is a feel that's about solving problems and you can almost always solve problems that you understand that i would like to think that we must solve everyone's problems are not just problems identified by a small segment of society and that's not just about women and then it's about having all kinds of people do engineering introverts extra

births people from cd it's from rural villages from the us from all over the world and so i think this idea that we can just have one type of person and have them come up with all the solutions to problems that never encountered themselves firsthand it's a bit absurd well i understand that some of the comments caught your approach in engineering and then they use that as an insult that's right leg would do you think that because i think there's a lot of there's some force here around the idea that i was advocating for kind of engineering that's why syrians somehow so somehow inherently by beams by females also it gets then not a real engineering some sub category that's i load for smallest really off base but even if it wasn't i think it's curious that we're so afraid of the idea that some engineering should somehow be female oriented there's a lot of engineering startups here in silicon valley it's all problems there are faced by twenty somethings year old males

so the idea that a few engineering projects should be about pink cotton clothes challenges of problems i think it is fine right was beyond i think there's something really interesting about the idea that engineering is currently gender neutral which i think it's probably not everything comes with a lance of the people they're practicing their ardor that fewer profession and indeed here he's well it's not totally objected how we choose to frame problems and i will look at this as a possible solution so an engineering read an op ed piece in the new york times called how to attract female engineers this is infection plane fb welcome back to inflection point conversations with women

changing the status quo i'm lauren shuler my guest is lena nielsen a biochemical engineer who ran the glum center for developing economies at uc berkeley and wrote a new york times op ed about how to bring more women into engineering well i was thinking about this this question of how to attract female engineers or how to attract women to anything and one of the things that i came across that way is for a teaching girls to code and it seemed to me that many of that stuff available on the internet is about designing bracelets and jewelry and i just i just seems really narrow of a really narrow vision of what would be appealing to a girl who is thinking about you know what is that interest her her and that white is coding have to be associated with jewelry to get a girl interested they're there to deflate programs that

tried very hard not to do that in tune to make sure that they're all kinds of odd problems in it without i don't think we should state we should have voided a bracelet problem i think they can included a swell but we shouldn't have some sort of equation with quirky girl sequels bracelet engineering that's a definite the path to go home yet is it is the theme like a lot of a lot of people are good these and they're trying to figure out ways to make things more appealing to girls into women but don't necessarily know what that is yet right so what about how we message though he were already teaching girls they should like bracelets and painful and barbie etcetera i don't know to what extent it's inmates that women are less likely to be attracted to engineering fueled globally there's certainly not the case to saudi arabia for example forty five percent computer scientists or a female malaysia fifty percent so it's not something that's universally

true it's also something that's true over time in the united states in the mid eighties nearly forty percent computer scientist students' trips you know so it's a moment in time now that it's less than twenty percent but it's not something that's true older geography or overtime that's interesting so i i did see that statistic here in the us that it's about twenty percent and for undergrad and even master's and phd programs but that it as a reference to the beginning the national rate that is fourteen percent of actual engine female engineers in the workforce or something is causing them to leave so what what do you think needs to change and the answer there is this concept of a leaky pipeline where women continue to drop out of computer science and engineering more generally that's not actually what the data shows there's chicken to big drop out area us one is between high school and college so in high school so girls and boys take about the same number of science and math classes they do equally that well but for

some reasons the girls still don't take those majors in college about half of them drop out and then again like you mentioned through college and peach tea all levels of education women stay in a twenty percent there's no drop out but then again there's this fifty percent drop between college and career and so those are kind of these big culture saturday night klein so it's not that they got to they got into the work force and then dropped out it's the day after they left college to decide you something else yeah so there's a big drop their prayer that women are half as likely to actually get into an engineering career but it also dropped a career there is a big drop out so women are twice as likely to drop out of an engineering a career it's sometime after they start work so that means forty to sixty percent of women will not stay for a full work like in engineering but they will go and do something totally different for what you mention in your op ed is that these barriers of both sexes them and then you know there's we always heard a

hostile work environments you mentioned lack of role models and so do you think it even if we successfully re framed engineering for women made it more attractive got more women in the first place that those will still remain barriers to getting those things are real they are also there so my article is not saying that there's no sexism that there are no other barriers about work life balance and so on those things are real and they're there but what i'm advocating for something that released deeply engrained in how engineering is done anything fundamentally we have to do that as well we can just create support program signals are important we have to also are fundamentally change the engineering profession and i think it's not just good for women that's also good for a lot of men are from various recent curly are not becoming engineers don't fit today's engineering steer well there are many different kinds of engineers and is there a

consistent skill all our ability that someone used to have in order to be an engineer there are a lot of math classes very deadly certain things certain types of quantitative skills so they're really useful in engineering and but i think all kinds of people and at that the engineers in bringing different skills so i wouldn't say that if you dont to day basis skill x you can become an engineer that's definitely fundamentally not true what is your experience than being a woman in the field of engineering oh i think i've been really lucky you know a really optimistic about the role of that but didn't because a patient a women in engineering in gender equity for sure of course i am like many others in women engineers there been moments you know you're in a meeting and he always the one asked to take notes or order lunch and so on but i think i've been very

supportive but both male and female engineers but is actually in a big point for me out of the article that our policies around engaging women in engineering shouldn't be the personal anecdotes i've been really lucky there are other people who've had not the same luck but as we try to solve this it shouldn't be about personal experience of the people around the table it should be about what's really working when you look at the data in large numbers so for example i've had women say well you know i have a degree in engineering but i couldn't get a job you know so why should we create more problems for women engineering and during in digital stories like this but if you look at the large numbers if you're a woman and have an engineering degree you're highly employable why did you become an engineer and i went to college and i had to figure out how to pay for it myself and actually applied for a lot of different degrees swedish which is my native language of

not in a good college joyce i think to study here in the us so sorry native speaker along with engineering they got a full ride and engineering school and i literally crossed out the differing engineering options until i only had chemical engineering left and that's why i picked it i would love it if there was a day where that's how a lot of people a genius well could end up in engineering in the sense that not all of the ones that i knew from the very beginning that the city wanted to do and that was the one passion but the people like me who didn't quite know what they were going to do with their lives that they were also entering into engineering fields so you so it was sort of out of necessity that you know he was a better word dalai lama did it was fantastic i didn't know i was going to bailout the math i loved the engineering labs i loved tinkering i loved all those things but i think i was lucky to be put on that path without knowing that as a

high school student in a sense and what few years ago he founded tech lab labs and increase accessibility to lab equipment can you tell us about that yes it that's it global kickoff return for diy laboratory equipment so on the ways to make your own laboratory equipment and motivated by the idea that a lot of standard ledbetter equipment is actually really easy to make you know things you see in a science lab the camp he'd serve cool sir shakes things are simple microscope select delegates else and so on and what a collapsed us provide instructions for how to build your equipment using locally available supplies of things you find at home depot said it's kind of like the mekong dement yes we've got an award from mit tech review for informing the slab didn't it out and then as i understand it you are joining the ranks of mark zuckerberg the fees but i gather leaves and the city and say you're here you are you are you a biomedical engineer by training are a chemical engineer

chemical engineer from lebanon biomedical when they were known for and credit studies and impeached pesos so you've got that your background and your now the director of market to bow leonard a company called analytic ship can you tell us what they do and what you're doing for them we're sure so after what this op ed in the new york times about the social impact and engineering had a moment where i realized you know what i should do that myself here i am advising students about social impact careers but really what i want to do is get out there outside the university bubble for a bit and work its something that i think could impact millions or even billions of people around so i joined the star up and let it which is a machine learning company for automating medical decision making so basically augmenting doctors to make them more efficient and to help them diagnose rare to see says as wells to increased bandwidth in countries that don't have the same numbers of doctors we do here in the

us and what are you doing for them and helping figure out how this great technology to really be plugged into hospitals to be really helpful it's one thing to have the great cotton to have a great technology it's another thing to make that technology fit into the lives of people and the workforce of hospitals stay can be truly beneficial what's the best advice about having a career in engineering that you've ever received you will all one piece of advice i can give them maybe tie seemed to the question are women in engineering is to be bold and to be bold and unexpected so the court here that i often use is that everything is very uncertain and that's exactly what calms me down and says really feel good about the opportunities and the unknowns that come on embarking on a new career for advice on couriers i wish you recommend a book that can emit a professor university of pennsylvania just came out with solving problems would matter that matter and that book is all about careers and

social impact engineering i highly recommend that for young people interested in engineering careers when a new leader yesterday about chemical engineers your revenue and center for developing economies at uc berkeley and is now within like this is inflection point conversations with women changing the status quo pending a battering fb is banned fb this is an inflection

point i'm lauren shuler writer activist and social entrepreneur gloria steinem has been the face of the women's movement since many of us were born and she's still advocating on our behalf she founded ms magazine and his foundation and as one of many awards for her journalism in twenty thirteen gloria steinem received the presidential medal of freedom from president brought obama she's also written a number of books including her latest my life on the road we reached her at her how many are welcome gloria steinem it almost goes without saying that you're an icon of the feminist movement think feminism has changed since you got involved in the women's movement dr theater

i took part of it remains the same which is to the temple dictionary idea of that we're all human beings and we believe in the whole the quality of men and women of our group and health code that's simpler for the infield dawning of unearth with great complexity of what it means in every area of life and howl fundamental it is and how much of it transforms it also change from a few people to a majority of people and in the us than in many other countries not that the institution had changed that they shared but that the majority culture that we have changed to believe that the principle of of equality is evil in and desirable that main event there is also a backlash now because becoming a frontline issue might play becoming a maturity consciousness change

mean that were now considered a theory of threat to those folks who have been making an for profit off an equal pay or even more a deeper level who firmly believe that reproduction women's bodies they think the vision of life should be in male hand none and female hampshire sometimes for a fair court reconfirmed confidentially for re for free in order to maintain racial difference or indifferent of care after class you have to control reproduction so we both have succeeded and are now and i kind of knife edge of weather it will continue or not in the way that it should because they've become a serious transforming promised to some people and threat to others so those who see feminine than it is as a threat are digging in their heels yes leon i think you know you

can see that by the fact that the way of the legislative vehicle and now pretty girl violent and auto physical violence and planned parenthood for in them and by three of the nature of our two political party of one of which have been taken over by an extreme right wing girls well in the book you call yourself an entrepreneur for social change what do you mean well i never quite am able to explain what an organ i've heard the vermont somebody have already been or screen or typing so thats the best way perhaps we can evolve another a better way to the entrepreneur a team of them won the different elements that haven't been together before and putting them together and then in a new way to create something innovative and necessary and i think i do think that at least one description of what a wide variety of organizers through you talk in the book

about the four houston and after she's an animal and you're all and they're the women's conference could you talk about that yes i think i say in the book i think ethan of the most important event nobody knows about because it really was a constitutional convention for the female half of the united states there had been meetings in everything in territory some of massive as you say in your favorite one a thousand people observed that the preparatory meetings electing our representatives collecting delegates and the fighting and is used to bring up at the national meeting and after two years of that prof of which was very carefully inclusive felt that it was maybe the only were racially economically and ethnically german representative process that i've seen in this country there was a mammoth

meeting of two thousand delegates and many thousands of observers in houston where week dr shirley chisholm vote and it really didn't bring the women's movement together a round issues that before it might have been viewed as not representing the whole movement or controversial like reproductive freedom has a basic right including a friendly to abortion or like discrimination against lithium to have a feminist issue for all women and in another fell out and you know we did all come together and the majority around an agenda there though you know the behavior of the movement really changed profoundly end became a majority movement and what year was that seven seventy seven so that is the same year that the equal rights amendment had a march on washington it was hit with just about the time when

the deadline was coming up and we got an extension and that if in three more faith there were more faith and three more had to ratify i was there my my mom and her friends to me on a bass from pittsburgh pennsylvania gunned down to dc to be part of that march hands and that amendment has still yet to be passed it didn't pass then it hasn't yet passed you think that the chords moment is stalled but it has had that really drove them get it reemerging again relevant and in every way even though women are filled up part of the constitution that the word women and not there but in a very practical way of french as you may remember the narrative spector from a nation food against wal mart which have actually the biggest class action suit in history it was not because we could not prove that women were

discriminated against but because we could not proof they don't mind that is that it would have on purpose if we had had before a commandment we wouldn't have had to prove they have mined and there are many many other situations that demonstrate that we feel even attempt them the right wing backlash have taken over congress to a greater degree so it's not completely together through congress again much less through all that a legislative but there yet i knew the area movement booming and there is a good new book out by jessica neuwirth about the horror of the moment why we need a blender practical interesting blog from the new press the women's movement is also very focused on increasing the number of women in leadership do you think this is overshadowing some of the more fundamental issues that that something like equal rights amendment would cover like sexism but also worker protection racism mean all these fundamental issues

that are very weak we live in a somewhat higher ethical culture throw the idea that the most important thing is to break the glass ceiling is more likely to be covered then that it affects more women to live to get off the sticky floor you might say don't have a pink collar ghetto so i agree with you that entry into corporate leadership or political leadership probably get more attention off from the outside world but i think for men inside were really believe that at least the court may be the other way around and if you look now at the narrative movement for immigrant rights say because immigrants are of course mostly women and their kids or for the rights of a household workers you know the and we are achieving

that they buy fake and sometimes thirty by thirty you can feed that they're completely much effort there and i'm not enough nothing ever enough but that much effort do you think there is a cadence that wish to be falling like there are some issues that we need to tackle before we can move on to other issues i mean i think that the and various really most importantly answered by individual women and their lives you know and they feed their kids that the most important issue are they experiencing domestic violent that the most important issue you know i don't think we should try to impose an agenda of urgency on real life the curve for one thing we're stronger if when we were working on the issues we know we know that but it is obvious collectively that there are two questions one violent forget female off in the world at large which

have become whole here whether it's domestic violence in the us your excellent pilot for morricone floor fun preference and many parts of asia for instance that have produced a son for eleven a daughter that's a third gm child marriage and too early pregnancy of the cost of them all all of these we have added up to the fact that for the first time now that we know of there are fewer females on earth than males that's fifty one percent not of the not of the world at large know so you know that's certainly a question of a violation and female deep an urgent and not only for women which would be enough but for everybody felt it turns out that violence against females is the biggest predictor of all other violent it tends to be void if experience

first and normal life of other violent mix of grow up believing that if a natural or even inevitable for one group to dominate the other so if the biggest indicator of violence in the streets of the country and also whether that country will be willing to use military violence against another country very dedicated number of pages in your book to what we can learn from the native american culture and from gandhi law in kenya that help us with this yet at the united ago one of dictate what helpful because we'll have different entry points both it certainly helped me to know that probably most of your human history and thirdly and north and south america the earliest algeria has earned matrilineal women controlled their own fertility by earthen

abortifacients that with natural fit with women's body if and when and how to decide now when whether to have children women tended offer to control agriculture well man hundred but those two things were inferior to be equally necessary in many of the cultures of the native american cultures here female elders decided if it was necessary to go to war or when to make peace they chose the male leaders that they were part of a circular consultative content is seeking government form that with profoundly democratic the with the women in indian country who i came to know who have come to know the years i mean you can only survive terrible tragedy of it if you can occasionally laugh make jokes about what the columnist think of primitive equal women and of griffith much tragedy behind

among the first things he did was take sex slaves for his crew and with just founded the women fought back it's well you also spent some time in indiana for earlier in your life and i learned a lot about gandhi in practices that were purer happened in my life and how grateful for it because like i am like india in order not to get married and i was engaged to a very nice guy but clearly it would have been right previously either over to get married and because i would dare and serve foie aging in that way you do when you're young and you don't know what you're doing at all it had their gridlock to end up traveling walking with gandhi and groups and of course just the atmosphere because it was only about a decade or so after independence with very handful of tea with them and effective methods of gandhi and method of organizing even know the

country itself of course you'd gone through despite the method gun through a violent protection so in a way that non violence and even more valued if however about what i learned which have just the simple lesson for organizing which if you want people to listen to you you have to listen to them if you want to know how people live you have to go where they live everybody needs to tell their story the filling in a circle being listened to in order to have a community of support and change his fundamental ground up but i didn't understand that they would be useful in my own country it took me awhile after i came home and taught the civil rights movement fb this isn't

like some point i'm lauren show where my guest is gloria steinem her new book is my life on the road we your book is full of wonderful anecdotes about individuals we've met on the road including your experience in india and it's so specific and it covers such a you know covers your life so far and i i was just wondering how you remembered every here is the process be of i do not want to make it seem that i am a special believe it i was as i hate african lawyer so intent on the road and i have never been able to keep a journal even even when i take notes they always turn out to be the wrong note go i depend on my memory to curator you might play emotionally you know what i remember emotionally i can go

back to and their research if necessary you know i write what i remember offended people who were also there i made heavy think google to find out they'd for if i was them for the people and the narrative but not with a fairly banal of power and they're in the day you know to tell the story the way it happened we recount some gray retorts in your buck when you and on speaking so davey kim about and people who had called yale that was a wistful kennedy coming up with a better memory very much better at it than i was we were xavier well my all time favorite words that when we were in the south in the audience who've had them pretty conservative component in their later affirmed guy would write up in the bakken you're going to have fairly unusual for a white woman and a black woman to be touring together and would very left in the end she had

always said are you my alternative which made the audience the lessons with a down the line if they know things like diverting were there you know women who are lived in and they have wooden have been truth though she found the perfect and for her it's always good to have some of his new backpack and we're the whole first chapter as your book is about your data could you share some of the influence he had on the values that you hold now about equality and poetry one another nyad outlined what i felt would be the north but without the chapter on my father and yet when i sat down to actually write it in a voluntary plays the chapter about my father came for it at the time that we were living in a house trailer which truth until the time or with him if he had a family firm and in holland michigan but when i got called which you couldn't barry would put a funhouse trailer and we would work our way buying and selling fall and geeks

the former california at that the time i wanted to go through like a picture of a lake you know have a life lived on the movie so i didn't realize how much it were implanting me and how much it enabled me to live with insecurity which every freelance writer need to be able to stand parrish and feel at home with that kind of unfair to be of the road and that category of unfair to be of a road show in that way that you discovered things about yourself boy you're reading a book i discovered how much i had recreated in my own way my heart of what look do you think i mean just at baghdad's and an end and their influence and daughters did you think that we need more men in the women's movement now and mr everybody are women and men and i think they're way way way

more men now who really understand that we are all prisoners of gender gender actually made up that we're all human beings world of unique in share human qualities at the same time and that they're preventing maybe if a period driven with people serving coffee and so there are many many many more men who were supportive for themselves you know because they also want to be closer to their children or if your daughter's respected for their talent or understand that violence against women is the root of other violent enough or for what a or what ever read them there aren't many more if it have a particular role to play for women when it comes to our father of the curve i began to realize that i saw the ear and beloved friends who were women of great talent and frank wu who had grown up with dictatorial or cold or

distant or even violent and actually defeat father who you were given that deep experience were still trying to work that out by getting a cold or different man to respond to them or just because they didn't deeply believe there were two eighth and so i began to realize how lucky i was to have had a father who however profoundly irresponsible to hush money and other things it's a lot like my company asked me my opinion so i knew that there were men like that in the world well let's talk about something that was probably inconceivable as you're growing up which is a woman president in your book you talk about hillary clinton's first run for president and you say that you didn't think the country was ready for a woman to be president do you think that we are now well the country is pretty big and desperate but i think enough people are

now so that it would be possible to elect her or eight another pro equality woman i did not think so when she ran the first time even though i supported her not because of her views were different from obama's they were really very much the famous to good people but she had a lot more experience so i thought you know we could have eight years of hillary in the nearly eight years of obama as opposed to what i now hope to be the other whereas he says but i e i deported her because of her greater experience but in my heart i thought that probably because we are women and men feel much relieved by women that we fill a filthy female authority with childhood and we haven't seen enough women authority in the world outside the home to feel that natural in okay you know to feel secure with that and i do

think that that's changed not certainly not completely but i'm not feel that this time she might be able to get elected but it will be difficult i wonder if men are given the opportunity to spend more time at home if that was also see now i think that's a crucial no thank you for playing that because it's at a crucial need maybe even more so for a man to play an equal role in raising kids because that's how men become more people that's how they develop their patients attention to detail empty all the qualities that are wrongly called feminine better prevent in all human beings and they get to be fully human night that's crucial well thinking about your life on the red and you you talk about a life i talk about it on the red state of mind any any tips on how we can all attain that you know i've been since i

finished the book i've come to think you know all during the time i was writing the book i would occasionally trying to learn to meditate i went choruses all my friends who told me how important it was completely convinced me that that experience of living in the present where you are called mindfulness or meditation with really very helpful and somehow i never integrated it into my life and the curve the book caused me to be more introspective i began to realize that actually the road if my form of meditation or because it forces you to live in a pressure if you're open if they opened to the changing things around to it that force you to live in the present the iaea wrap up every interview and conversation with a question about advice so here's my question for you know what's the best advice about starting a movement that you've ever received ms barber

what had happened to you that you think is unique maybe you fear its uniquely your fault or maybe you think you form of interactive that is isolated or whatever it is tell the truth about what happened to you even to small groups of people and chances are that you will discover that a version of that had happened to other people too and tenth we are each unique that means that the shared experience a pattern of shared have political and if we get together we can change it for each other i think that if they are the route the real durable regulatory route of a change that might come from the bottom up in all in order to be true to our life folklorist and thank you for sharing this experience without tourism is my life on the road

thank you liz carter up outside not at consider him well for supporting us an infection gonorrhea dot org i don't think it will especially in houston texas on the nineteen seventy seven thousand women's conference are lots of those thomas

doll and the president of the united states not really with their hands in their land prices along side of a moving on sexual american lives maria

like to hear from the va shows and senate for you know we're on facebook at facebook dot com slash inflection point radio and follow me on twitter at la shiller well inflection point is produced at the cd is detailed on the radio and delivered to public radio stations nationwide riviera subscribe to our podcast on itunes stitcher or engineer and producer is eric wayne but

just incremental