¡Colores!; 302; New Mexico's Nuclear Enchantment: Patrick Nagatani; Nagatani

Yeah, God, sister has so many, huh? Bios is having a - All right, so let's talk about, you know, just getting into this whole thing. Sure. Okay. What time is it? A quarter to three. Oh, really? We're looking good. We're looking good. You know, we need to set this whole thing up so that, by the way, let's start to get to the meat of the single. So now to talk about these issues of lead that were predominant, the early work that led to the Chapman stuff. All righty? Sure. Okay. So let's roll. This is getting to the meat of it. Yes, to getting to the meat of it. Getting to the meat of it. Well, you know, fellas, in 1983, now that won't do it. No. Take 38. Ready? Yeah. Roll. Rolling. Rolling. In 1983, I was in Los Angeles, downtown Los

Angeles, about a block from the atomic cafe where I used to eat my noodles. And Andre Tracy, a painter, lived in the warehouse next door. And I was invited to use the Polaroid camera in San Diego. Now, this was unique because the camera, essentially, was located in Boston. They were bringing it out for six West Coast artists to use the camera. Well, the twist to the story is that I was teaching at the Art Institute of Chicago, so I had to fly back to Los Angeles to use the camera on the West Coast. To make a long story short, this was a new technology. And for the first time, I thought about collaboration in terms of the monumentality of the image that we might create together. And so, Andre and I got together in brainstormed a few ideas and the image of their painting of atomic cafe came to mind in the first, in fact, the first Polaroid done in 1983

at the Museum of Photographic Arts in San Diego was a piece called the atomic cafe. And it kind of began the directorial mode or the arranging for the camera that I've done. I did previously, and I've continued to do since, ranging in the studio for the camera. In this case, it was arranging pictures for the 20 by 24, which I've always considered that technology interesting and in a way, the camera. There are only five of them in the world, two in Boston, one in New York, one in Japan, and one in Germany. And so, it's a unique process, a unique technology. And along with, I think, those uniquenesses, there are some drawbacks to the technology, and there are some things that are inherent to the film and the process that are interesting for our artists to challenge. And so, Andre approached, and I approached this working with the camera in a sense, confronting that challenge. We looked at what people had done previously with the 20 by 24 camera, and looked at

what needed to be explored, I guess, with new boundaries to break using that technology. We decided to do things larger than life. We decided to play with illusion and illusion to make things look as if it was almost a decisive moment. And foremost, in our ideas, was to cover nuclear issues. In a sense that they were images during a nuclear attack at the moment that most of us only fantasize in a nightmare sort of way. It was also at the moment when things were just being blown apart or scattered in a nuclear wind. It was also interesting in that we saw this vision as predominantly red, and red in terms of the hue that would be foremost in the image. So, we started making sets, and we've made

sets for six years. It was a phenomenal success in our minds. The first image, and we subsequently went back to Boston and New York, off in Bach Germany. Did I say Boston? Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah, we went to off in Bach Germany, in fact, to do a piece called Alamogordo Blues. And of course, this is the piece to the side of me, Alamogordo Blues. It's like many of the Nagatani Treesi sets, it's a constructed set that's about seven by nine feet. There's a scaffolding erected above in these figures and other things like the Polaroids are strung and monofilament line and are hanging in the set. And there's always, because its life size, or almost real scale, a real person in the scene. And in this case, I have blue makeup on, and I've situated myself behind the mural cut -out figures. They're black and white cut -out figures that are hand -colored.

One of the restrictions of the camera is that there's an 18 -inch depth of field. So everything has to be flat. And so our exploration in making the Polaroid images from 1983 to 1989 was to create the illusion of space using both photography, performance, painting, and installation. Excellent. So let's take it from where we left off. Let me think about this. No, not yet. Okay. It has to be rolling when I do this. Okay. This could be your wife getting dinner ready with your neighbor. Here we go. Well, 1987, I moved to New Mexico, and it was kind of like taking off my blinders when I moved to New Mexico. And I started finding out a lot of research about

doing a lot of research about the state of the nuclear economy and the nuclear culture here. And for the first year and a half, when I was here, I actually just did research and gathered information. And the idea for nuclear enchantment, the images, just started to materialize. I think it was after two years of living in Albuquerque that I made the first image. And from then, it's been about a two -year process of making all 40 images and picking and choosing locations and sites and things that related on a contemporary and historical basis to the nuclear culture of this state. Which has the origins of the history here with the Trinity site. And of course, continues to this day with contemporary issues like sandy and national labs in Los Angeles, Los Alamos. Of course, those aren't issues, are they? It's what they do that really, what we might

consider issues. What's the first thing we do work on? The first images were sets that I had the convenience of working in a gutted out second story, huge space. And so, in a way, I both planned the images to the ones that I wanted to very large, seven by nine -foot sets and make three or four of them in this large space. So, I worked on about three or four at the same time. I remember the Nike Hercules, Missile Being One, Atomic Museum being another. The Bat picture came around that time. Anything that had a large set involved in making with the images? I think Chris, we're just too high, I can't see the space. Okay, can you push your hat back over? If you're in there, I can see your face. If you start moving forward, they'll just cruise down over your head. Yes, and you're completely

reclusive. True, but you know, you've got a lot of narration on this stuff. We won't cut away a lot, but I just don't want 20 minutes if you talk to me with the hat over your head. Oh, I mean, right. So now that I should start a little bit. No, no, I'll look at you. Take it from there. Did you like that blinders? Yes, yes. You know what you might do is you might just have the whole first part like really dark. And then as I take off my dark glasses, you like all of us, you know, like the things you could have everything over. Now maybe do everything black and white all the way up to that point. And then when I take off my dark glasses, then it becomes like color. Or else I could like just go like this to rub my eyes. And as I do that, throw it out of focus. And then I would go like this and put my glasses on and then put it in focus. We got that already. We didn't actually do that. Well, you did? Yeah. Just keep doing

that. Well, we can do something with everything around you. We're going to need to take some of that. Anyway, I was kind of interested in... I mean, on a personal level, almost like coming to New Mexico and discovering all these things. I mean, we spent two or three years researching something wasn't around with our clients. Well, I realized that the things that I was doing with the 20 by 24 camera was really just kind of topical. We were kind of interested in the visual fantasy of a nuclear explosion. I wasn't really hitting on fact and information. I'm coming here and learning about networking in a way. The moment people found out that I was doing this kind of project and gathering this kind of research that this came out of the woodworks, David Morrissey from the journal, people from the university. Just the environmental protection agency, the volunteer, a lot of information, other students, colleagues,

activist groups. And all of this stuff began pouring in. And I then realized that I had adequate access to these places. And so... Still doing the same thing? Yeah. I'm playing a little bit too, so you have to look up at me. Okay. So we grow again? Sure. Yeah. Could you just start from like that? Okay. Well, now. We do it. No, I mean, what it must have been like to just come to the next level and discover, I mean, you know, a indoor box full of ideas. Yeah, that was amazing. Okay, we're going to do this stuff, right? We're going to do this. We're going to do all of that stuff. Okay, here's the producer here. Is it on? What did you say again? I

said, there's a... I was Bruce King would say, in Mexico, there was a whole box of Pandoras. Okay. You know, as Bruce King would say, Mexico is full of a whole box of Pandoras. And that's what I found here. A lot of Bruce King's and a lot of Pandoras. What else? I can't remember now. No, I can't remember now. Tell me, what happened? I mean, why on earth did you come to New Mexico? It's serious. I mean, what did... Seriously, I came to New Mexico, reticent to leaving the land of sunshine in Los Angeles and the land of aplenty because I needed a job. And I was the lucky person to get a teaching position at the University of New Mexico. And so it was a pack it up and go to New Mexico. I guess at I felt I was coming here a little bit premature. I thought maybe I'd come here when I was 80, retire here and die here. So instead, I'm going to die here at a younger age, I

guess. I don't know, that doesn't make any sense. I came here for the job. And what happened when you went too funny and you got here? I like the job. You don't like us. Let's give you another year. Give me another year to figure that one out, right? Or let's just wait till Michael feels a little better to give you some more answers. Let's see. Well, I came here in 87 because of the position at the University of New Mexico teaching in the photography department, which in terms of the teaching side of my career was terrific boost. I mean, the program has an international reputation and it's a prestigious position to obtain. And so I had no idea about the history of or the involvement with New Mexico in a nuclear culture at that time, only to find that there were lots of things. And it just

started a snowball at that point. Let's talk about getting into the nuclear landscape, the nuclear enchantment thing. What were the earliest ages of that? What did you start to see in our beautiful state? And what really made you decide to go ahead with that piece of work? And that order, please. I lived for 30 years in Los Angeles. And I don't recall once ever seeing a military aircraft fly overhead. And that's for obvious reasons. But in the Mexico, for less than obvious reasons, I saw a 70s, a 15s, one afternoon, when they were having an air shore at Kirkland, two F -16 Thunderbirds, a number of planes, number five and six of the Air Force, two F -15, F -16 strike eagles of the Air Force

Thunderbird performance team must have been low -level strafing, the Maddox research sculptural building. And I walked out and then I flew right overhead. And I truly knew I was in the land of enchantment then. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We can go on to Kirkland, along with the jet's warming up. Yeah, hold on to each other. Okay, so now that once you realize you're in the land of enchantment, which sounds like a pretty profound moment to me anyways, what then may you decide to try and add a direct deal with that in this work, in this kind of work. Let's get into that, how that started. You saw more things when I was saying Kirkland was in there. So let's talk about how, what may you decide to start this project? That's a good question.

Yeah, okay. One of the reasons why I started this project was the need to make art. And the removal of one self from one environment and going to the next, I've often felt it's important to deal with that environment you're in, or at least you're influenced by it. I noticed that with graduates to come from the East Coast and to work with me. They're always stymied for a while, especially if they work within the environment of the landscape, let's say. You've got to learn the landscape to scope it out, to figure out where they're at. And I felt that I was going to make a life here in New Mexico. And it was important for me to understand the politics, the cultures within the state. And in developing that understanding, I think that what became important to me became my work. And so this aspect of the nuclear landscape of New Mexico,

as they call it nuclear enchantment, became my work from my politics and my understanding of the politics of the state. It seemed like a good idea at the time. Let's just go on a limb here. And this is sort of changing the subject a little bit entirely. What are the three most heatiest, most vulnerable things you've learned or you've seen in this project? I mean, you just learned a lot of, just far out things, just in so far trying to get into this work. And be charming and witty. The three most. Yeah, three most one. I've got one. That one's easy. Well,

the first one, the first instance that came to mind was the the first time it went out to the Laguna Pueblo. And I wanted to photograph the Anaconda Minerals Corporation Mine, the Jackpot Mine, the largest open pit, Uranium Mine in the world. And it has hundreds of acres of Uranium tailings on the Laguna Pueblo Reservation. There's a village named Pawati that's built just about on top of the tailings. And the day I went, there were some kids playing basketball in this newly constructed area of track homes, which is part of the newer part of the village. And the wind was blowing and all the dust and tailings were blowing in the air. And I realized I couldn't make the picture. And I was thinking about sticking it out and waiting for the wind to subside. And these kids were down there playing basketball, breathing and all this stuff. And right behind them, you can just see the mounds of tailings. And you knew that this

stuff was in the air, that they were breathing. Now, I was fearful that I was breathing it on one time occasion. You figure these people live there and breathe this stuff inconstantly. That was in a way hideous. So you did a piece for relating to that? I mean, you did a piece on the tailings down there. And I did a piece that related to children. And I did a piece that showed a cemetery and showed, in a way, these layers of life, death, life and death. And I'm pretty sure that that experience of that misday of when I didn't get the shoot, didn't get the picture made. And I had to come back that that influenced that picture. Or the fish in that picture, wouldn't that mean? God, let's not talk about that. That's the image of it, isn't it? Yes, well, we've got that picture. You've got that. I'm so sick of that. Right? Yeah, I said that. What do you got Michael?

What do you think? What do you want? Oh, I like it when you personalize things. We've done a lot of process and a lot of... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.