New Mexico in Focus; 332; Black Business in NM

The special session is on hold for now, but is that good news or bad news for a possible budget compromise? Plus, the polls have spoken, what they had to say about the governor's popularity and the upcoming elections. The legacy of African-American business in the land of enchantments. The Mexico in focus starts now. The twists and turns in this year's budget debate just keep on coming. The governor called for a special session this week so lawmakers could iron out the details of a plan to fill a $60 million budget shortfall but at the last minute legislative leaders convinced the governor to put it off until Monday March 1st. They had this week, while lawmakers wanted that delay and why the session may get pushed back even further.

Plus, one item that did make it through the session is a bill allowing people with conceal and carry licenses to take their guns into bars and restaurants. Our line panelists are ready to open fire on that debate as well. This week we're also paying tribute to Black History Month by looking at the impact and legacy of our state's African-American businesses and there's no better place to have that discussion than Powell Drill's restaurant. Up first, it's the very latest on the budget battle in Santa Fe. Lawmakers are working behind the scenes to hammer out a compromise after failing to do so in the regular session. So for some insight on the latest developments, we turn to a pair of journalists who have been following the legislature every step of the way. I'm here with Trip Jennings, senior reporter for the New Mexico Independent and joining us on the phone from Las Cruces is blogger Heath Houseman. His website is nmpolitics.net. Thank you both guys for being here. What we want to get to is with the special, coming up on special special plus 2.0, coming up on Monday, let me back up just a quick second with you Trip and ask, talk about what was the rationale for the governor post-poning just a bit and having this on Monday as opposed

to this past Wednesday? Well, what came out of the governor's office is that basically the legislative leaders, hey, can you postpone it please? They've been telling him please postpone it for a little bit. This rationale that was given publicly was, hey, I'm going to give them a little more time to try to reach a deal as we were talking prior to this, you know, the House Speaker Ben Luhan says they were close to the goal line. The Senate leaders are not that optimistic, you know, their differences remain but, you know, basically it was to give these legislative leaders time to try to, you know, iron out their differences and get to a budget deal. It's always smarter to go into a special session with a deal than it is not to have a deal. And Heath, on that point about the Senate, there's been some noise that those folks would like to have this delayed until March and possibly April. What do you think their rationale is behind that? Well, the economy, state's economy is not necessarily hit rock bottom and we're waiting

on the feds and some health care funding that may come from Washington and so there's still some unknowns are saying we don't know what next year's budget is going to look like. How can we pass it? How can we approve something without knowing what numbers we're working with? Let me stay with you, Heath, on that. Is it realistic to expect that that clarity would come even before March or at some point you've got to take a shot and just go for the gusto here, I would seem? Well, I think it's noteworthy that this is not a new argument. They made it last year, a couple times. What it seems like, as long as the economy is in flux, you can always make the argument that we're not going to know in six months what the economy is going to look like. I think there's a genuine desire to only have one special session this year among some of those senators if possible, but I'm not sure if it's possible. Sure. Would you agree with that? I would. And I think part of the reason they want to wait is because in April you get some more revenue numbers and in May you actually come, you get the preliminary numbers on income

tax revenue for the state. So they're thinking, we get some better numbers. We have a better sense of whether our revenues are continuing to slide. There's a legislative budget arm as already predicting right now that revenues are below expectations for this year. So they probably want to see if the revenues are continuing to slide, which means basically they may have a bigger hold than they think right now. So that's part of it. That's a key point right there because the reporting this week at Mexico Independent Heath site and in politics.net, that idea that our revenue projections may in fact be off quite a bit has reframed a lot of this argument. Yeah. It's very interesting because the state is projecting that our revenues will grow by 6%. As Tim Jennings, who's the Senate president, told me on Monday, he doesn't know anybody who's projecting that they're in business. Basically their revenues are going to grow by 6%. And frankly, if the revenues grew by 2%, instead of 6%, and we still have the 6% expectation,

that's a $200 million gap. So that's even a wider gap for next year than they are predicting right now. And this is, and I've talked to some folks, this is the worst budget situation in Mexico has been in in decades. So it may even be worse depending on whether revenues continue to slide. And Heath on that point about revenue, as they say in Santa Fe revenue, meaning taxes, now we've got a whole different argument here about grocery seats and other things, where people are going to have to get very real to use a street term about this idea of taxing the rich, you know, how food gets taxed, which kinds of food suddenly we've got a whole different argument here. Yeah, I think that's true. And that's part of the stumbling block. I mean, that's the big ideological difference here. Everyone knows we have to make some cuts. Everyone I think, when you have John Arthur Smith acknowledging that we need to raise some kind of taxes, I think, you know, at least on the Democratic side pretty much everyone

is an agreement. The question is which taxes, and there is a lot of disagreement about that. Heath, let me stay with you on this point about the governor. Where does he fit into this picture? We've got a couple different scenarios where he has laid down, the fact he just wants to have just some very specific things dealt with, but he's also, on clear as we tape this about whether he's going to add an ethics bill or not to the special 2.0 in this argument. What's your thought on either one of those? Well, I think he's considering it as a bargaining chip. I think that's what he does, and so it's clear with the ethics commission, he just said he would have vetoed most likely the bill that was going to pass, if any bill passed, which is the bill the activist didn't like, so you had the governor and the activist on one side, and the majority of legislators on the other side, that's a debate that could need more time than this tax increase debate, and so I don't think it's realistic that we're going to see an ethics commission bill come out of a special session, so if

he puts that on the call, I would assume it's more to use that as a bargaining chip to try to get some of the other budget fixes he wants than anything else. That makes sense in some ways, huh? I think part of his calculus, too, is the governor wants to have this special session within the 20 days after the regular session, because many of the bills that passed past in the last three days of the session, he has 20 days to sign or veto those pieces of legislation. This governor, as well as other governors and other states where I've worked, whether to sign or veto legislation also has leverage, so he can actually call up legislators to his office during the special and say, hey, look, I've got your bill over here, I need you to vote a certain way, so that's also part of the calculus here, whether to have an ethics bill, how long will that draw out the special? That $50,000 a day plus or minus. Let's also talk about, we have an election year, of course, all the House seats are up for election in this year trip, and other national political climate stuff is starting

to factor in, where does this weigh in, the Republicans have had, particularly the minority Whip has said, look, we got shut out of this process, the first go around, we were not heard fully, where does this all fit in, the politics of what's coming up in November? Oh, I mean, it's definitely a factor. I mean, frankly, you've got the House of Representatives, like you said, all the seats are up. Some of the decisions they're making right now are based on that factor. You know, they're trying to figure out what can we pass with tax increases. The Republicans are, you know, they, it's kind of interesting to hear them say that they're out of the mix. In some ways, you know, they're taking themselves out of the mix as well by saying, look, the Democrat to doing this, not us. It can be smart politics, it can be, it can be not smart politics, if someone comes up with a great deal, and frankly, the Republicans are seen as obstructionist. I'm not saying they are, but it's a very interesting kind of situation right now.

He felt the idea of Republicans and where they stand in this session, and folks who were up for election, Republican or otherwise, how does this all factor in to their decision-making? Well, I'm assuming that a lot of the Democrats who are pushing tax increases and the governor and the lieutenant governor would rather get tax increases over with sooner. And some of them may not mind coming back in the spring, or maybe even later, and having their Democratic counterparts approve a tax increase that they can use in a commercial and an election year against Diane Dennis or someone else. So I think that's on the back of people's minds. I think the other question that could play into election year politics is, can the state will the state even approve a budget? You know, at some point, if some group like the House Republican caucus is going to say, it might be politically convenient to file a lawsuit against the state of New Mexico for not having a balanced budget and being in violation of the state constitution. And I think we could see those kind of dynamics shape up at some point, too.

Absolutely. He-thousand-men from Anipolitics down, Net and Crucist, thank you for joining us in Tripp Jennings, of course, an old friend here at the line. In Mexico and dependent now, the opinions about the special session and the ongoing budget debate are intense for sure, and that's definitely true for our line panelists as well. Let's turn it over to them right now to find out their thoughts on what's happening in the roundhouse. The line is the time on the show, and we give opinions center stage. We have an informed and engaged panel certainly with us today. Talk about these issues. Very quick reminder, these are opinions. Don't represent the opinions of the show or canemy now. Who's here? Panelists this week include Jim Scarentino. He's editor of the investigative website in Mexico Watchdog, which is a project of the Rio Grand Foundation. That's a free market think tank here. Antoinette Cedillo Lopez, filling in for Sophie Martin. She's been here before a law professor at the University of New Mexico. Laura Sanchez is again this week, environmental lawyer with the National Resources Defense Council and former executive director for the State Democratic Party. Very pleased to have with us.

He's signed to my old familiar face here in Albuquerque as a city councilor has thank you for being here. Thank you for being here. Guys, we've got a special coming up on Monday, which was supposed to come up on Wednesday. We can call it web or special 2.0, perhaps. And Laura, let me start with you, we've got an interesting situation here where we potentially got leadership speaking. We're going to assume right now to figure out something to bring on Monday morning so we can get something done within 48 hours, 72 hours. Who knows? Let's take some guesses here where these guys were at the end of the last special 1.0 and where we think we might be coming up on Monday. What do you think they're hashing out right now? Well, I think we were hearing all along and towards the end that they were pretty far apart. I think that it wasn't a surprise to people who talked to a lot of the leadership there who were just on different pages. And it looked like they were headed in for a special session or an extension of the current session. I think that they're still at odds as to raising the revenue versus slashing a lot of what the proposal was in the Senate.

I think that they're too far apart on the numbers. The Senate proposal only comes up to about halfway to where the House proposal did as far as raising revenue. And I really think that there's a strong push from what I can tell of coming from the Senate to try to push the special session into April. And I think there's a lot of resistance as far as political schedules, campaigns and so forth to doing that. And I think that folks in the House would really like to see it happen sooner. We'll see if it actually happens on Monday. I mean, I'm going to say that it may not be Monday. You wouldn't be alone on that. Yeah. Jim would talk to quite a few people who feel like April, for various reasons, our segment before with trip and heath, there's some budget numbers that will become a lot more clear come April. So why not wait until the spring to have as much information to do this as you can, particularly on budget revenue projections coming down the road, which is still a huge question mark? Well, there's the campaign season and the entire House of Representatives is up for re-election. That's one factor. The other factor is, and I think the governor just doesn't want to lose control over

this. It seems like his power is withering the longer he's in office. He can't twist arms anymore. And in the space of a week, there were even further apart because now John Arthur Smith, Senator, from Deming, the great city of Deming, is said that there could be an additional $200 million shortfall on top of the $500 to $600 million they failed to plug last time around. And that would come from, what would that shortfall be because projections? And there's been some, and Senator Jennings sent out a letter or is an op-ed piece. One of the proposals to close the budget gap was to project an increase in state revenue of 6%, a 6% growth rate for the state in a recession, which is just baloney. I mean, that's the rate the Chinese economy grows. And that was one proposal that got slapped down, so they're very, very far apart. And further, I think, by the day. And so what's realistic? What should we think about for revenue projections down the road? I've heard 2% others are throwing around flat.

If not under. I think we'd be happy with flat, sure. To be honest. I mean, the numbers came in today, the day before we taped this show, and once again, an unexpected drop in new home sales to historic levels. I thought we were supposed to fix that. So probably the best estimate is the most conservative estimate. And I think that's what Senator Jennings and Smith have been working off of. On the house side, they've been, and the Governor Richardson's always been an optimist on state revenue. And I think the legislature's tired of that song. Well, and I think even the Republicans, sorry, even the Republicans on the house side, have been along those same lines saying, you know, you got to prepare for the worst. And if you have a flat projection, you know, you try to at least be realistic with whatever you're coming up with to have a budget of some sort. It's such a vicious circle, because when you start cutting our biggest employer, which is the state, and those cuts have an effect on other businesses, restaurants close down. So it's just a really bad situation. The more you cut state government, the more you cut the economy.

And so it makes the revenues go down as well. I'd offer some other considerations here. It's mainly, from my perspective, about political power. An incumbent doesn't lose an election unless somebody is running against him. In the house, candidates have to file by March 16th. People in office do well by not taking positions and not basing reality. So I think we're going to have more denial, and the other consideration that interests me is the redistricting that comes up next year. So there's all kinds of operations, I think, or other considerations going on in the scheduling of this budget. And mainly the Democrats and the Republicans, who are trying to maintain their power and trying to avoid making these difficult situations. The state across the nation income is down about, state receipts are down about 10 to 12 percent. So we're really seeing kind of a debt collapse across the country. We're not going to be immune, and it's just going to get worse.

But given that has, doesn't the governor have some power here because somebody has to get on the record and make a vote, basically, at some point. And all that other stuff has to take second position. Because the governor have the power to actually force this vote. I'm talking outside of his gubernatorial powers, but just politically say, look, guys. I just agree that they have to make a realistic vote. I think the whole thing is extended pretend here, and we're going to see a lot of discussion about different options. We can talk about what the tax options are, but the cuts aren't there. I mean, I'd offer that the public sector has to shrink in New Mexico. The cycle you discuss kills us in the private sector if the government just keeps eating more and more. We have a- But the job loss also has an implication for the private sector. Well, you know, the job loss should be spread by cuts would be what we're, and we're facing such gross excess in the government payrolls at the top end. We make multi-millionaires out of the people running the public schools or the vice presidents

over at UNM, and I think there's going to be a reaction coming through on that. I hope there will be. But we're- Again, Jim, the reality of this is someone's going to make a stand. Some person's going to be a leader here and stand up and say- Well, you've got- So-called leaders meeting behind closed doors. The role in the legislature is it really is a handful of people who put the budget together and they come out and they've got their factions and their caucuses that line up and they get everybody in line. What's happened here is that there is no leader. You've got Ben-Lujan in the House who is being challenged by a new progressive caucus that voted against his gross receipts tax. I forget you may know the number of them, but we had a lot of the new members vote against it. In the Senate, you've got an emboldened- Really, I think Tim Jennings and John Arthur Smith, and you don't have a governor that can bang heads. You've got public employee unions behind the different factions who don't want any cut at all.

And you've got, I think, a year when you're going to see some really angry taxpayers. It could be a very interesting year in the House races. Sure. In the year, Laura, you know, has been floated the idea that perhaps August is in play, that we could in fact, after this special come back again in August, what does that mean politically? Because now you're inching even closer to November. Yeah. Well, the only advantage I would think is that you're beyond the primary at that point. So at least you've narrowed the field on both sides as far as the candidates go. The Wall Street will go nuts. Absolutely. And I do think, I mean, they have to come back before July 1st to fix, to have at least a budget in place. I wouldn't be surprised if we see something at some point, at least talk of another special in the fall, but it would be, I think, politically a real tough sell. And I think to Jim's point about the public employee unions being, you know, backing one side of the other. I mean, industry is backing. Yep. A lot of industry in there who's also, you know, everybody's vying for their piece of the pie and trying to protect it.

And that I think has resulted in a lot of the far apart, how far apart they are on the different houses. And just for clarity, when, when, guys, when somebody says or in the press you read, we're going to write hot checks soon, if we don't figure this out, when is that actual line in the sand? When does that actually happen? So folks get this, Jim. Is it actually that July 1st? Well, they have to have a fiscal year now. And there's been some predictions that they're just going to do some Jim Crackery and pass a budget that isn't real. It's going to look balanced on paper, but in reality, it's not, which then creates the specter of boom. As we've seen in the past two years now, they think they plug it and we're back three months later because it's worse. If we look at what happened last time, I mean, that's sort of what happened. They passed something. They thought it was going to work, but the revenue projections came back so different from what they had been working under. The chewing gum fell out of the crack. Sure. That's a little bit retroactive cuts, which are worse than being able to plan. Exactly right. Now, we want to know what you think about the way lawmakers are handling this situation. You can send us an email at NewMexicoInfocus.org and let us know what you think about all of

this or you can weigh in on our blog. You can find that by heading to canami.org and clicking on the New Mexico Infocus link. Why you're there? Vote in our new online poll, which also asks about the legislature and its budget. We've got much more in store on the line, including reactions and analysis to a slew of new public opinion polls. A new bill that would allow some gun owners to carry their weapons into bars and restaurants. We need our right to guns for self-defense and for defense against the government. Taking a gun into a bar from my point of view is not the kind of civic right that we want to encourage. February's Black History Month, of course, and part of that history in New Mexico has to do with local businesses. New Mexico Infocus correspondent Tracey Dingman sat down this week with some special guests to discuss the significant role Black business has played in a sometimes segregated society. I'm here at Mr. Powell Drell's on Fourth Street with Rita Powell Drell and Brenda Dabney.

They're historians of sorts and we're going to be talking about the history of Black businesses in Albuquerque and in New Mexico, generally. Rita, I want to start with you. You've done a lot of history into the history of Black businesses. I think it's really important when you talk about history that we put it in the context of what was going on in society at the time. There was segregation, whether it was legal or it was by custom. What sort of role did Black businesses play during that in Black society during that time? Well, I think going back to what you said about the climate, the social climate of the times. Brenda and I, when we started our historical, it was the late 1800s to 1930. Even though New Mexico was a territory for part of that time, segregation was the climate of the day.

New Mexico was segregated and that affected everything that dealt with Black businesses. The other climate of the day was jealousy. So during that time period, there was a large amount of jealousy directed towards African Americans who were succeeding and the community in Albuquerque was very aware of that. You had the destruction of prosperous Black towns like Rosewood in 1950 and the Tulsa riots that happened in 1921. So in addition to segregation, there was this climate of if we show our success, there could be retaliation. And I think those two climates really affected how Black businesses developed in New Mexico and Albuquerque. What sort of industries were affected most by segregation? Because I mean, I'm guessing that as a, you couldn't just walk into a doctor's office, you couldn't just walk into a hotel or a restaurant as a Black person and be served. So what sorts of businesses sprung up in New Mexico to serve the Black population?

Well, like you said, lodging was segregated. And you had the railroad coming through New Mexico and you had a lot of African American men who were porters and things on the railroad. So Mrs. Bailey and others started lodging businesses because there had to be a place for African Americans to stay, your beauty parlors and your barber shops sprung up. We had our own independent newspapers, the Southwestern Review and the Southwest Plains dealer, which were actually beacons to the African American community because they talked to things like what was going on, you know, just so and so belong to the Ku Klux Klan when Donna Anna County decided to segregate the schools that came out very strongly in your African American newspapers. And then you had ice cream parlors and apartments and just numerous businesses. Brenda helped me out here.

One of the things that was developed, and this goes to show you how we as a people network, there was a book, it was a lodging book, for people traveling from the east coast to the west coast to the vice versa. There was the blue book and the green book. And I don't remember which we were in, though the west, but my grandmother had her home, which was, they didn't call it a bed in breakfast, but it was a lodge where people knew and looking at this book that this was a safe place for them to sleep overnight and continue on their journey. And my mother ran the restaurant right across the street, so they had a place to eat. You know, they could eat their supper or they could eat their breakfast. And so they would use that book to travel throughout the country. And it was like a yellow pages, it was kind of updated every year, yeah. What was your mother's restaurant called? It was called Aunt Brindis, but barbecue.

And Aunt Brindis? She named it after me thinking of a wringer lock. Oh, that's sweet. And so when did that restaurant open and when did it close? It opened, I guess, in probably 1944, and then it closed in 1963. Right. Okay. Can you talk about some of the other businesses that existed during that time? You know? Yes. Well, you had, now there were, there were people who had, you know, the cleaning business and you had had, well, I remember the one family would sell black magazines. Ebony, you couldn't buy it in the bookstores, you know, the magazine stores. Or jet. Or jet. So you would have to buy those from private individuals and the cottons that was a family here. They would go every, and they had, they had also black newspapers. Pittsburgh Courier and Chicago Defender, so you could get all those black newspapers, which connected us nationally, nationally as to what was going on.

And they would sell right out of their car, and they'd go from, they did a lot of business at our restaurant because they knew people would be coming in, you know, and it was a good pickup point to get things like that. And then you had a, you had a small African-American population, so things had to be coordinated. So you had a big catering business. And you had many caterers, African-American women who were caterers. And because we were small, we depended on the other groups to support the businesses. So the caterers worked with prominent families. And there was a whole system of apprenticeship where young girls would be apprenticed into the catering industry, and you would have lead caterers. And even though they were each independent, they also collaborated with each other. So if there was a catering for 1,000 people, then all the caterers would come together. They would appoint a lead person, and she would decide how much people were going to get

paid. And the young girls would come in, and they would learn to hang coats and do radish flowers. So there was a whole system of, you know, apprenticing young girls into the catering business. So that was a big business in Albuquerque. So it was definitely tied into society as well, and community service. I mean, I'm guessing that the churches were involved, and, you know, the events would be weddings, I guess, and what other big events were in the community at the time. Another thing, there was a black businessman's organization. And Mr. Davis, who owned a filling station here, he was a member of it, James Lewis, who was an attorney. There was several doctors, Dr. Lewis. And my grandfather, who was an entrepreneur, he was looking to, his dream was to be able to expand opportunities for blacks to live, so he wanted to develop homes. And he died before you'd do that, but he set that seat in my mother, and she was able

to establish the East End Edition, which is between Lomas and the Freeway and Wyoming and Pennsylvania. And so those homes in there, she was able to tell me your mother's name. Virginia Blue. Virginia Blue. So she developed that, tell me the name of the edition again. East End Edition. In addition to other, there's still homes there. Yes. And those people that lived in that area were being swallowed up by the newly developed auto industry. And they stood up and said, no, we consider ourselves a bonafide neighborhood, and we should be on the registry, historical registry, thank you. And so they fought, and they won. But several homes had already gone by the wayside. Now when you say the auto industry, what do you mean by that? Several of the automobile dealers on Lomas started to absorb some of that land, so they would pay people, the owners, you know, what they felt was a good amount of money.

And then they would tear down the house and use it for automobile storage. You know me? Wow. Well, there was that sense of threatening that we talked about. So like in your African-American businesses, like your barbers, they needed white clientele. But they also realized that it was threatening for black clientele to be in their stores. So what they would do is they would do the hair of the white clientele during the day, and then they would pull the blinds, so the white clientele would not see them cutting the hair of black consumers. And also, AL Mitchell, who owned apartment houses early in the 1900s, only rented to Anglos because, why people? Because he felt that if they were not going to want to live beside African-Americans. So in order to be successful in that business, that's what he did.

But he also had a forum where he taught black history to young African-American children. So it was kind of living the schizophrenic type of existence. Well, tell me, you know, tell me about Chet and Perts, because I know that that was sort of a hotspot for black folks back in a certain time in Albuquerque. Tell me a little bit more about that, either way. Well, I think partly segregation was the rule of the day. So in your musicians, they couldn't perform. They couldn't bring African-Americans, couldn't come to where the musicians performed. So if they performed in a white club, they weren't. So they would... Even if the musicians themselves were African-American. Right. They could play to a black club. Yeah. So Chet and Perts was the social place. And like Louis Armstrong would play in the white club, and then after hours, he would go to Chet and Perts, and then the African-American would get to here. So your musicians and everything dealt with that dichotomy.

And it was a place where people could go and have a good time safely. Because there were some bars that you wouldn't want to be. You wouldn't want to be caught dead. And as segregation went out, did that sort of change the way black businesses operated? Well, some of your black businesses were unable to survive. So like you're lodging and boarding, there was no longer a necessity for those types of businesses. And Chet and Perts, because now that people could move freely into other clubs and things like that, then those businesses started losing clientele. So that had a profound effect on some businesses within the African-American community. Tracey Dingman also spoke with other special guests to give us updates and perspectives on the current status of African-American-owned businesses into Mexico. I'm sitting here with Ron Hinson. He's chairman of the board of the African-American Chamber of Commerce of New Mexico. And also with Joe Padrell.

He's a businessman who owns Padrell's barbecue on Fourth Street. And I'm here to talk to them about the more recent history of black businesses in Albuquerque. Now Joe, I know that your family has been here since the 60s with the Mr. Padrell's barbecue business. And so what was it that brought your father to New Mexico to start the business? I think it was a combination of my father's aspirations, probably prompted by my mother's commitment. We were looking for opportunities. Educational, employment, and the opportunity to better our lives, that was a driving force to get to Galbogorgia. And was there a specific reason why they came to New Mexico? We had family here. We had family here. They had been here since the 20s and the 30s. They kept urging us to leave the segregated environment and come to New Mexico, which was a quasi-integrated environment.

And after probably years of co-horsing, and I think the combination of stress, we made the trip, 1958. And you're the business opened in? The first attempt to open up Padrell's barbecue wasn't called Padrell at the time. Yes, it was, too, 1962. Now you were quite involved in organizing and documenting black businesses. I know that you had mentioned an organization. What was that organization called that you were the, and what was your role with that organization? I was probably a founding person for the African-American Business Council, which was really an offshoot of an organization that preceded, even it, called the Albuquerque Black Economic League, the top of 1971. The Business Council came into existence in 1986. And it's an attempt to do what the chamber is doing now, and that's coalesce our resources to find out those things that we have in common in terms of needs, banking, business development.

So financing was that sort of an issue? Yes, always. Ron, I'd love to talk to you about sort of the common goals of black businesses. Now I know that, can you tell me about your organization and when you started the current organization? Well, back in 2004, a cadre of business people got together, and they were asking some pointy questions about why weren't we in the mainstream of the business world here, and why weren't we promoting ourselves and why weren't we really getting into getting to the next level? So we threw that around for about six months, and we said, well, why don't we just start a African-American chamber? And when you say we, who were you talking about?

And these were black business people, and they were meeting, and when they first started, I wasn't a part of it. Then I knew a black minister who was here, and he said, we need some people to really commit to this idea. So we started working on it, and quite as it's kept to put an organization together like a chamber. It took us about two and a half years, because there's a lot of a building you have to do in terms of IRS, all of the local state government agencies, but it's working. This is the first time that we have been in business for four years. It hasn't been easy, but we're getting there, and we just started a partnership with the Bernalillo County Economic Development folks. And we're hoping that that will be the last door that we have to get through in terms

of funding, because most of the folks that are start-up, they're just no start-up money. So we looked around and we fished, and we found out that there's plenty of grant money, because there's an untold number of foundations out there who have money. So that's what we're doing right now. We're working on the last part of the IRS paperwork, and the people from Bernalillo County is going to support that. They're going to try to get us some funding so that we can make that happen. What does your membership look like? What kind of businesses are in your membership, and would people be surprised at sort of the breadth of a black-owned business in New Mexico? Well, let me burst that bubble. We're called African-American Chamber, but we have more Hispanics in the African-American

Chamber. And that's good, because the idea is, a chamber is to help business people, regardless of their race or ethnicity. But we've got to get to the point where we are getting funded through some sort of state agency or government agency or a foundation. And that's where we are now, and that's going to be a reality. So we're hoping, in the real world, 2010 will be our breakthrough year to extend to black businesses, what has normally been seen as us being left out of the funding area? So Joe, let me start with you, and I'll get to you also around. So how does black business, you know, it strikes me that it's really not always just about economics, that it's, sometimes it's more about sort of cultural and community sorts of

goals. Do you share that feeling as well? I think you have to look along the lines of self-determination. I think that's the driving force behind the Hispanic Chamber. People of like backgrounds will affiliate themselves together to improve their plight. And so doing, they become an asset to the city. Ethnicity drives the Chamber of the African-American Chamber. It says in so many ways that we have a responsibility to ourselves, and how well we address that responsibility to ourselves will determine how much of an asset that we are to the city. We have some things in common, you know, in addition to our complexion, the plight of being an African-American person in New Mexico, we all share that. And so we will take that, and we'll employ all the things that you have to employ to become successful, and so doing will be a credit to the city as well as the state.

So Ron, is that kind of built into your organization also that you have kind of a community role? Exactly. As a matter of fact, we're establishing a community improvement foundation so that when we say economic development, that includes the entire community as well as the business community. Okay. One question that I want to kind of post to both of you is, you know, there would be some people who might say, well, in this day and age, is there really a need for a race-based business organization like this? What would you have to say to that Ron? I would say that's a misnomer, because when you talk about business, you have to talk about success first. So what's happening in America today is that people are collaborating for business success first, and we're finding that if you don't work together, if you don't have foreign partnerships

or alliances, it would be hard to be a success in these economic times. So I'm not saying that I'm leaving ethnicity completely out, but the first issue in a business is to be a success. So that's what we're trying to do now is make sure that the whatever is missing in the education, formulation of partnerships, working together, you know, I think that the word is get together, grow together, succeed together. Joe, what about you? Where is interesting how the word race comes up when the African-American collaboration comes up? I don't think the question like that would ever go to the Hispanic community, and it's the same thing, basically.

I say it's ethnicity, but I think when people share common circumstances, they should collaborate, you know, because they have some things in common, not only that, they're resourceful to each other. Is there a need? I think there will always be a need for people who have similarities, they share similarities, common experience, to come together and pool themselves and their strengths and their weaknesses to better themselves in order, again, to be a credit to the entire community. Is there a need? I think there will always be a need for people to come together and put themselves, put their resources together to improve their plight. For more on the history of Black owned businesses here in New Mexico or to find out more about the African-American Chamber of Commerce, just head to our website. That's log on to canemy.org. Look for the NMIF link at the bottom of the page. Now, we're back here with our line panelists for another main topic of discussion. This week was a big one for public opinion polls here in New Mexico. Most of the research has to do with the upcoming gubernatorial campaign and the polling shows

guys some interesting stuff. Pete Domenici Jr. with a slight lead among GOP contenders, but also showing Dianne Denish with the lead over all the GOP hopefuls and another poll came out this week that found Governor Richardson's popularity taking a pretty big nose dive as approval is at 28 percent Laura and as for context, I think he won his last race with like 64 percent of the populace or something, that's a pretty amazing shift. Let's whittle back on these one at a time. Let's start with the GOP and the impact of Pete Domenici Jr. He's of course trying to fight a couple things off, revelation of cocaine and marijuana use in his youth, not unlike many people that were alive in the 70s, but for a lot of folks, they're just not going to caught into that strictly. And then also his, more importantly, his showing in the straw poll was not terribly strong even given that he was kind of late in the game. So where does Pete Domenici Jr. fit into this situation as it stands now? We've got a sort of a lead pack breaking out sort of because it's still just a little bit early here.

Well it's important, I think ending it that way sort of is a good way to sort of put some parameters around what we're talking about here because I mean absolutely Domenici is a name that everybody is familiar with and I think that you cannot move away from the fact that that helps people when you have the same name. We've had other folks with candidates with similar names as people, name recognition means a lot to it, especially with an electorate who may not have the time or resources or whatever to become informed about who the candidates actually are. So that helps in any situation. But I do think that in that particular poll, what's interesting to me is we're talking about 444 registered members of the GOP, people who have presumably voted in the last couple of major elections, but that's not necessarily reflective of the people who will actually select who's on the ballot at the pre-primary convention. I mean that's a completely different group of people. There could be some positive effect though at the fact that he did come up with such a high name ID. But I mean you can't discount that fact, there's 36 years worth of Domenici being out there in office, I mean that's longer than I've been alive and people are going to recognize that name.

I think it comes down to things like the second part you mentioned. The flubs about the past, the not being able to sort of clarify about whether a public can take that seat or not. I think those are things that are going to come out the more exposure all of the candidates have together, both parties in a forum setting, of course in both parties. I mean the lieutenant governor campaigns. Once more people get out there right now, all it is is just a straw poll game and a money campaign game. Once you start getting people in front of a camera to start talking the issues, you will really I think quickly start to see who's lieutenant governor and governor material. Sure. As Sam goes on, I'm going to have most of those folks or all those folks here at this in this studio to clarify so much stuff Laura is talking about has, but this idea of games manship in the straw polling is always interesting every cycle. Those that straw poll well feel it's just momentum and it's just a great thing. Those that don't, who cares, it all comes down to something in that Byzantine process of the convention and those kind of folks which are a much different situation. That being said, for Mr. Domenici Jr., where does he go strategically from here leading

up to the spring in the actual convention and how people are going to come out of that? To back up a little bit, the most interesting data from the poll for me was that 46% of the Republicans could not name any of the candidates. So there's a lot of room for all of the candidates to work on. I think the Republicans have a chance if they, we can articulate a constructive alternative to the current arrangements in Santa Fe and one of them hopefully will emerge from the primary with that. So far I haven't heard anybody really catch their stride yet on the issues that I think are most critical, but Pete Domenici can be a very strong candidate of course. And then we've got, Antoinette, we've got Alan Way out there who was sort of hanging out there for the longest time as the de facto candidate. And now just things seem just a little bit different, but he's been a little quiet in this stage. And I guess from most of us have been around political campaigns a long

time, there's benefits to being quiet, letting everybody else beat each other up a little bit and then just kind of taking care of your business at the convention. Is he taking this the right way? It should be out there. My guess is he's got one of the things that I understood and I wasn't at the Republican Convention was that he got the delegates that he needed. And so that's what my guess is, is he's doing the hustle that you need to do to go to the Pre-Primary Convention and get your ballot position and make sure that you're on the ballot. And I think some of the candidates are in danger of not even making the ballot at the Republican Convention. So it's just interesting. So I think his quiet, and I don't know him, but I think his quiet is probably wise right now. Yeah. And this comes on the heels of Party Chair Harvey H. Jr., asking the guys to chill a little bit. Guys and girls. Guys and girls. That's important. To chill out a little bit because we have Doug Turner now weighing in on Ms. Martinez. We should step aside from her duties in the southern part of the state and her job in order to run. And everyone just seems to be kind of scratching at each other a little bit. Well, Party Chair is always want to see a lot of interest in people running.

And then when there's too much interest, they complain because everybody wants the job way too much, you know, it gives them some heartburn. But I think it's more healthy sign than anything. Okay. I mean, the Republicans, I've talked to you think they have a chance of winning. The interesting thing in that poll, the PPP for whatever that stands for, poll is that you would expect Diane Danish to be ahead. She has tremendous name recognition. She's run statewide a number of times, but she's under 50%. That's right. And she's only 5% above a guy who's got a name people recognize, but who's never done anything in politics in this state. So Republicans think they have a chance. Their challenge is getting the right candidate. These mentions who's Anna Martinez here, she's, I think, been also working pretty effectively under the radar. She probably hasn't spent enough time in Bernalinho County, but she's lined up endorsements across the state from legislators who think she's the one who stands the best chance of winning.

Alan Wei has the organization. I mean, first of all, he can organize people. Military background. He knows how to do it. He's got a far more organization than anybody. It's a healthy thing for him. I think that it's a knockdown dragout. The Richardson numbers are encouraging them. And then the question is, well, anybody remember that Diane Danish was Bill Richardson's lieutenant governor and running mate for two terms in a row. That's her big challenge, because she could be tarnished by where he ends up in November. I don't think he's going anywhere up. I'm glad Jim mentioned in that polling, probably the most interesting bit that Miss Dennis was only polling about five points ahead of Pete to miniature junior. I'm going to imagine that came as a shock to most people because a lot of folks are working on a lot of assumptions that Miss Dennis is assuring that we're in a very volatile situation across the country. Some of the Massachusetts election came out of the sky for a different result. And that's certainly possible in New Mexico, depending on the economy on any other factors. I don't see that much important in that number because it's a future projection, kind

of a guessing game of what might happen, even if you're asking where you are right now of the voters. I think the overall message, the dynamic can change tremendously in my opinion. Please. I'm not sure entirely, but are we talking about that she came up five points ahead in the Republican poll of 444 GOP, because if that's the case, I would not be surprised by those numbers. No, it was the public policy, the polling right showed her only five points ahead of the government. And where are the issues with that particular poll? I mean, not to completely try to drive a truck through it per se, but they do use auto dial calls, which I think have a hit and miss sort of a situation. A lot of people don't like to pick up the phone. As soon as they hear that, they think it might be someone selling them something or some sort of a card. And so you're getting already, I think, somewhat of a skewed result, as far as people who may or may not be home. And even the self-identified has liberal, has moderates and has conservative, and the moderate group was the group that seemed to be the highest number there. So it was, I think, a little bit stupid.

But as has said, it's early, and who knows where we can project out on this. It's all very early. Now, there's been a lot of talk about what didn't get done in the recent legislative session. But one item that did make it through both chambers in the roundhouse is a bill that will allow concealed carry holders to take their firearms into bars and restaurants in New Mexico. Has, let me start with you. This bill has been floating around here for a long time, and there is a bit of a national trend that's underpinning a lot of this. And the governor's considering this, certainly, but in the interim, we've now got a lot of bar and restaurant owners saying, hey, come on. In Jumbacca, by the way, had a great quote to saying, these are guys that would not allow guns in their own places of business, but they're perfectly happy letting them into bars and restaurants. Where should the governor be thinking on this? I mean, we all get the public safety issues, but we should veto it. Okay. Okay. And why? We need guns. We need our right to guns for self-defense and for defense against the government, taking a gun into what bar, from my point of view, is not the kind of civic right that we want to encourage.

So I guess I just come down that way. Sure. And then we've got the other aspect. Jim hanging out there of beer and wine joins. I mean, a lot of people are still scratching their heads over that one. Does the bill allow it in bars? I thought it was only restaurants that served beer and wine. Beer and wine, yeah. Well, one of the first places I went in New Mexico was Reds Bar in Espanola on the North side of town, I'll never forget, there was a sign that said, no guns or hats. And you had to check a gun or hat and the reason for the hats was because the way they would knock the hats off to start the fight and then the guns and the knives would come out. Alcohol. You know, I don't understand why the theory behind this, that having a gun in a restaurant where there's beer and alcohol serves. That makes me very nervous. I understand the arguments on the other side, but something just tells me, you know, beer and alcohol and guns just don't mix. The only person that should have the gun is the bartender who's got the sawdust under the counter. You're so old school, I love that. You want out there to show you something I've just seen and they're out there. Absolutely.

You know, for me, I think I would think that it would be a huge, not to be a huge lawyer perspective here, but the liability issues for a business owner, for, I mean, they already have to deal with a lot and training and making sure that your bartenders and your staff are aware of the limits of the drinking laws and the issue about people being over served and then having to, you know, worry about where they're going to go out and hurt somebody outside the doors of your property, let alone what might happen if people are packing inside your restaurant. And even if you're just doing beer and wine, you have a food component. I mean, there's still some places that after hours, after certain amount of time when there's only, you know, munchies involved, they can be pretty rough. Did those guys that who killed that individual in San Fei, the lawyer's name from San Fei, were at the real, a high end steakhouse and got absolutely blotto, Carlos Fiero. I mean, I mean, it's, you know, alcohol reduces your ability to think rationally. The guns in the restaurant are supposed to be deterrent. I understand that. If everybody has a gun, no one's going to pull a gun out because they're going to get blasted.

But when somebody's at a point two alcohol level from beer and wine, they're not thinking that way. Exactly. I mean, there's a really science behind this. And to what does anyone say? Well, what happens to me is the rationale for this was a legislator who had his gun stolen. All right. And I'm thinking and all of a sudden we have, yeah, that just didn't make sense. And so he's saying, well, that way I don't have to leave it in the car. I can take it into the restaurant. And that's why we're doing it. It just doesn't make sense. Now, I mentioned the national trend. It was an interesting piece in the New York Times earlier this week that a lot of states are considering this very same thing, loosening up their own individual gun laws, Indiana, Virginia, which is very interesting. The reason I bring that up, it's not a New Mexico thing, but the reason I bring that up is this fear that Mr. Obama in the White House is going to lay down some Second Amendment restrictions were seen to me. Has he said nothing of the kind or even hinted anything like that? And not only that, we have a Supreme Court ruling on the Second Amendment and that Second Amendment ruling really protects a lot of gun owners.

Sure. Interesting to me, it feels like the fear is irrational, and I just don't see it. Right. And again, I know you're a proponent of keeping Second Amendment rights, but where's the line here between folks that do want to carry, and if they do have a concealed carry license, are we all set right there? Are we serving those folks? I'm not sure the change in the lines right now is anything other than political maneuvering and pandering to certain sectors of the electorate. Sure. So I'm not even sure it's a big issue. I doubt that it's an issue that concerns a lot of people the same way the economy does in our country today. That's a very good point. I hope the governor pretends. Yeah, but let's go up and down on this. Let's see, let's assume he does, in fact, sign this bill, Jim. What's the upshot there besides what you mentioned earlier about the potential for mayhem? I mean, what are we really gaining here with a sign? If it passes, you know, probably some people's concealed carry are probably already carrying men restaurants. They're just not taken off because they don't even think that through. If he passes it, we may not notice anything.

But then we may have an instant, and we may have an instant where somebody tries to rob a restaurant and everybody pulls out their gun and stops it, or that somebody's drunk as his date and pulls out a gun in a restaurant and we have a tragedy. I don't know. I can't predict what's going on. It's impossible. Sure. More likely than that, probably. I could see an instance where somebody is wanting to carry their weapon into a restaurant bar of some sort and are prohibited from doing so. And not turning into some sort of an incident with media attention and whatnot. I mean, I would think that that angle might be something that would happen probably before anything. Because I mean, honestly, if there's going to be a shooting of some sort, if somebody's going to be in danger in a criminal situation or whatever, it happens without a law, or people want to engage in that and fight and pull a gun. It happens whether you're standing in the middle of central Carlisle or inside of the Rio Chama. Either way, it's the laws and the signs don't matter if somebody's out to do something like that. But I think that from a rights perspective, I could see a lot more people insisting that they have this right.

And then that turning into an incident that generates some media attention. Sure. And there's a reason for the veto. There's nothing to go. Let's see what happens. Now, the opinions and thoughts from our line panelists continue this week on our website. We'll put them on the clock for a variety of topics, including the President's Healthcare Summit, which was yesterday. And the news that a local doctor is performing a late-term abortions right here in New Mexico. Here's just a sample of what's in store. I think he's a very brave person to do this, but I think it is going to provide a service in the community. It is a tragedy when that becomes necessary. But I think it's a private tragedy, and I hope it remains a private tragedy. See that on the clock, segment? Just head to canemy.org and click on the New Mexico and Focus link. Now, let's all the time we have for this week's show, but we're already working hard for next week. So tune in as we take in a new batch of topics and issues on a show that's informed, involved in in depth.

New Mexico and Focus.