Albuquerque Police Department; APD Tape 41

Give me a little bit of a heads -up. Sure. Matt, what do you think? Okay. I'll tell you one thing, Joe, this... You know, we're doing this documentary, it's been a highlight of my career over at Channel 5. Just between you and me. Or shall we roll? We're ready to roll. Okay. You know, all right. And let's talk about the need for, you know, for police training to be an organic mechanism. Like, for instance, when we were out, and I apologize to the staff and to the cadets, you know, for stressing them out for the makin' of this, you know, but then, you know, we're, after all, we are the fourth, fourth estate. And like, when we were at the academy, they were in, the staff was in the process of revising guidelines, procedures and stuff like this proved to me that it was, that this, that police training, you know, is an organic mechanism. Let's talk about that for a second. Sure. What was appropriate to train a cadet in the 44th class may not, probably

is not appropriate for a cadet in the 77th class. Our standard operating procedures manual, which I'm sure you've seen, is two or three inches thick. It is a living, breathing document that constantly changes. We learn from our mistakes. We, and we do that in training as well. Not only do we need to recruit the cream of the crop, we need to then provide them with constant updated training that is important and critical to today's environment. And the training needs to be provided to not only the cadets, but ongoing to all the men and women of the Albuquerque Police Department, civilian and sworn, because we can't just pump an officer out of a class in 1977 and expect them 20 years later to continue to do the job we're asking them to do. So, yes, you, you saw a

staff of instructors are a police academy who are not only busy training cadets in a class, they're also revising our curriculum constantly as things change. And, and that's extremely important for any police agency to stay abreast of the latest technology, the latest techniques, the latest training, so that we continue to serve our communities the best we can. Well, let me, let me ask you a question that just came to mind. What about, you know, okay, let's, all right, let me use the metaphor of Israel. You know, Israel, you know, it's, and also the need though, that if we are involved in a holding action, are we, is the department changing, adapting, adapting, to deal with it, like with the drug epidemics, you know, drug epidemics, the, you know, like some, like the promised drug epidemics, the homeless,

homeless schizophrenics and so on. Um, I would, I would disagree with that. And, uh, if you haven't, I would invite you to go to any number. And you pick up any number of neighborhood meetings that we attend constantly as a department. And I'm not talking about the chief going to these meetings. I'm talking about police officers, meet officers going to the neighborhood meetings, the sergeants, the lieutenants, addressing their needs, listening to their concerns, trying to solve the problems in those neighborhoods, holding action, no, I would disagree. Um, uh, the Albuquerque Police Department, and this is, this was true when I came on, um, and it's true today, because we have not kept pace with the explosive growth. We are an agency that finds itself, that is too small for the job it's asked to do. And if you go out there on any given day or evening, and find 15 or 20 calls for service, holding in that hopper, waiting for an officer to get free to go to, then what we

end up having is, is while we're trying to give these officers beat integrity, we're also not allowing them the time they need to solve problems in the community, and they become nothing more than robotic call takers. I'm here to take your report, you know, what was stolen, and then go to the next call. And you can't ask that of a police department and expect them to provide a quality problem -solving, proactive kind of service, when we're trying to break out of that reactive service. So, I would disagree with that, that we're in a holding pattern, that we're in a police action, if you will. Certainly, we have portions of the city that are experiencing much different problems, that other portions of the city. But I think we've done an enormous leap in the last several years in how we do business. And again, going back to changing an organization's culture, it's not an easy task,

and it's sometimes been, the analogy is, is trying to change the direction of a battleship with a very, very small rudder. It takes a lot of time. It's not something you can turn on a dime. And I think we've made major strides, and I'm very proud of what the men and women of this department have done, and the service they're able to provide, given the resources that we have. So, I think all that comes into play. The church can I call that? Sure, please. You know what we need to talk a bit about this. And, but I would also say that, that what you've seen at our police academy, although some of it certainly is military style, and the cadences, and that type of stuff, and the physical training and what have you. You've also seen the officers, the cadets, if you will, in cultural sensitivity training, you have seen them in actually participate in scenarios for mental health, how to deal with people who are. I think we have

reached a very good balance in providing that balance to the cadets, on what it is their role is, on what it is their, the expectations of the community are, on trying to break down that them and us attitude of, say, the 70s, when there were riots at Kent State, and what have you. That's certainly not the desire of this chief. It's not the desire of this department, and I think having sat through the 77th, and been able to see all of that kind of training, certainly there were cadences, and marching drills, and rigorous physical training, but you also saw those other things that I described, and one of the things that I say to the cadets at the beginning of every class, and I bought it specifically for them, and it hangs on the wall in the back of their classroom, is something that

I have tried, it's a message that I've tried to weave throughout all of it, was the Canadian geese, and I don't know if you've got an opportunity to see the print hanging on the back of the wall, and how the geese work together as a team to help each other, to help the entire group, how they use that teamwork, to get the job done, and so all of that comes into play, and I think we have struck a very, very good balance in how we do that, both from a service delivery, but also having to realize that officers are going to find themselves in situations at three o 'clock in the morning where they could lose their lives, and how they can go in for that inner strength. So, with regards, all right, one thing that I have known as well working on this one,

and one thing that has been brought up through this is that there has been a transition from classwork to scenarios. I mean, let's talk about that, we saw the actors come in, and we've seen the other officers doing scenarios. Let's go back to ancient history. Were there a lot of scenarios when you were in the academy, sir? Yeah, actually there were. I don't know that we had them to the extent we have them now, but again, I go back to us learning from just from everyday experiences, from mistakes, how to do things better, and I think the belief is now that instead of just trying to teach someone something out of a lesson plan with visual aids in a classroom, to drive the point home to make it a more constructive learning experience for the

cadet, is to employ some of these other teaching techniques, such as role -playing and bringing in actors and what have you to interact with the students. So, I think we have more of it now than we did back then, but we had it 20 years ago, we had that kind of teaching mechanisms in my class, but I think we've expanded on it and realized that it's a very good teaching tool. Okay. When one, all right, you know, like, NGD is quite fun, but there are people in the community that, you know, that say that, you know, APD is too aggressive and too liberal and it's a use of force policy. Let's talk about that. Certainly, the Albuquerque Police Department has its critics, and in fact, I welcome constructive criticism as a chief of police and as a member of this department. If there's a better way for us to do business, it's my job as chief of police to find it. I mean, that's really, we're here to

serve our community and the best way we can. There's no police officer that I know that wants to take a life. That's an awesome responsibility, and I think having, again, you've had the luxury to see the kind of training that we provide as far as our use of force goes. Our use of force policy is considered a model policy in the country. It meets calia standards, calia being the commission on accreditation for law enforcement agencies. We are in a credited police department, have gone through some very rigorous accreditation standards to get that designation. We use the reactive control model in our teaching, the RCM, which employs everything from mere presence, the officer's presence, all the way up to and including the use of deadly force, and everything in between the RCM model

is driven by the persons actions. We provide stuff which is going on right now, verbal judo training, which I've gotten some very, very great response from the troops. They're telling me that some of the finest training we've provided, how to de -escalate things using your mouth, using the skills you have and your verbal communications. Doing things like, shortly after becoming chief in 94, providing the officers with less lethal technologies such as bean bags, giving them other tools in their toolbox, if you will, before they have to resort to the use of deadly force. We've had controversial shootings on this department for the 20 years I've been here, and that's just something that goes in policing. You very rarely find a police shooting that is not controversial to someone in the community or some group in the community. But I feel

very good about the direction that the department has taken. We have a state -of -the -art use of force training technology in our ICAT system, which I think you would have seen the officers going through. Which gives the instructor the ability to escalate or de -escalate depending on how that officer, how that cadet is acting. If they're showing a good command presence, if they're using good verbal skills, the trainer can de -escalate the situation. If they're not doing too well, they can escalate it. They can take it to the next level to where they have to use pepper spray or impact weapons or hand -to -hand combat, if you will. So I think that the Albuquerque Police Department is doing a good deal to try to give the officers the skills and the training they need to keep them from using deadly force, given the tools and the technology that is less lethal,

the bean bags and some of the other technology that's out there. But also giving them the state -of -the -art training to know that if you do have to use deadly force to save yourself, to protect another officer, to protect a citizen of this community, that they have the training and the skills necessary to allow them to do that. We're talking about presence, like, for instance, sometimes I notice that, you know, let's say that if I'm in a barn grill, I have an a burger in a beer. You know, if an officer or a group of two officers would come in, there would be a heightened tension level. And like, you know, in this, is this a natural part of the relationship between, you know, the community and its officers?

Well, I think you have to look at a lot of dynamics that are at play in that kind of interaction. This is not Mayberry. If this was a very, very small town where everybody knew everybody, and everybody knew who officer Joe Paulisar was, he's the town officer. I mean, there's only one or two officers on the department. Everybody knows everybody. You're not going to get that when that officer walks into the local tavern, because everybody knows it. They know him by name. Hey, that's Joe. Joe just took care of my, you know, my kid's bike that broke and he fixed the flat tire. This is a big city. And it's a lot different dynamics that are at play, although I would love to have that Mayberry kind of relationship every officer known in the community. The fact of the matter is, is when a couple officers walk into a bar like you're having a burger and a beer and they're in there, probably for either a meal or because they were called there,

the chances of the people in that tavern or that establishment knowing those officers personally are very, very small in this city. They don't know them personally. It's not George and Joe. That's a police officer. And that police officer is different. His or her role is different than that firefighter. The police officers role in this city is different, although they may be there to help solve a problem. Everybody in the establishment doesn't know that. They look and say, okay, are they here on a bar check or they check in IDs to see if there's any kids, juveniles in the bar or what have you. So I think that that all has to come into play when you talk about this schism as you call it. Again, realizing that this is not a small town, a small community where everybody knows everybody. It's a big city. This is a very big city with some big city problems. Our service population is

well over half a million. And I would like to think though that the officer of this department walked into a place and as you described, it was glared at by somebody that they wouldn't know how to handle that professionally and not take it personally. It's like, sir, just by the very act of wearing that uniform, is a statement that you and the two. Me personally? I readily accepted that responsibility. The day I entered the Albuquerque Police Department, the Albuquerque Police Department Academy. And certainly when I raised my hand, it took me off office. That's part of every police officer's job. You bet. Okay. We had the June. Yeah, I got a couple of your Georgia Prices. Sure. Just to

make it easy. That's a great question, George. In fact, I've got a photograph in my... in one of my many albums that you might be interested in seeing. Okay. Happened in 1978, where I almost did lose my life. In fact, will it... from my own gun, taken away during a... an incident, went through my coat? So... Chief, we... our fundamental premise looking at trying to see where the hook was and this was that. It appears that... I categorically don't believe in that premise or that thesis. I think quite the opposite. I think what you're referring to, in my opinion, is how police officers deal with the day -to -day dresses and pressures of doing five or six jobs as you... as you just stated.

You referred to an incident just occurred, with an 18 -month -old baby that was shot and killed. An accident that occurred a couple days before that, where a school bus ran over a mother and a kid. Those are the kind of things that police officers deal with every day in the city. When it ends up on the six o 'clock news and on the front page, is when one of us makes a mistake. We use excessive force or we do something that we shouldn't have done. And that's what gets publicized the whole time. The fact that an officer breathes life into a three -year -old kid who drowned in a hot tub in the backyard. The fact that an officer's simple act of kindness stops and helps an elderly lady on the side of the freeway and changing of light -tire. The fact that an officer every day will recover the stolen TV set from an elderly couple who... that was their life and returns it to them. Those kind of things that happen every day are never celebrated. If they get any media

attention, they're buried on D -19. That's part of policing and most people who enter this profession understand that. I think that it's real important to know that how officers deal with those pressures of having to see an 18 -month -old baby shot and kill or a ten -year -old kid run over by a school bus or those kind of stresses. That sometimes is very difficult for a citizen who does not normally have to deal with that day in and day out. How does an officer handle that? Well, we have just an outstanding one. I consider to be one of the best in the country and employee assistance programs. We reach out right away now. Back in 1977, when I come on, we didn't... It was... You dealt with it. You're a police officer. This is part of your job. Deal with it. That's the way. Not taking into consideration that all... every one of us is human and that there's no way you can see that day in and day out and not let it affect you emotionally,

physically, personally. And possibly impact how you do your job. So, we have critical incident debriefing teams made of trained people who have been through all this, peers, other officers, civilian employees, on how to debrief people who are involved in those kind of situations. Help them deal with that.