¡Colores!; 1202; Los Escondidos; Interview with Eliseo Rodriguez

Yeah, some of them are excellent. Right. Yeah. There's Moniquita. She's the youngest one with grandchildren. And she's doing, she has work in one of the leading museums in San Francisco. And I don't know what to help with. She doesn't know what to do. Otherwise, it would have been nice for her to come. And even work with me a little bit. Right. She likes to work with me. Did you see the picot her working with Grandma? Yes. Yeah. So how long does something like this, this intricate take you to create? How long from start to finish? This cross that I'm working now, I started in. And you lie there 20 years. But I spend more time in the hospital than working on the cross. So that's what makes it hard.

But more or less, like the other crosses that you've done, it takes a lot of time. We took a bus. Well, I would say roughly about seven months. Because I'm not talking on steady basis. You have to stop maybe. And I think it's a lot nicer to stop one or two days. And they come back again and see why you're doing it. If you keep on going and then you get a complaint and then you say, no, I should have done it this way. But if you stop and start it a little bit, I think that's the best way. Like in painting, that's the same thing. I would start it painting and I don't touch it maybe for even weeks. Then I go back to it again. So. Do you ever think you'll retire from this? Many people by your age have already retired. You're still going. No, no. The only thing that I beg my god and that I will be healthy and that I can enjoy things that I like to do because working with this

so many hours is like, well, it's an enjoyment, let's put it that way. So I don't think I would do it. Maybe I would, because I never thought I would retire from being a goat hunter. For example, we're going out to get my own wood. Right? And the only reason I don't go up to it. My own wood would probably fall down before I get into the car. But this still brings you a lot of satisfaction. I think that Carmilla, I think that one thing that I think about it is very seriously. And they tell Pablo the same thing. That if the people that knew us when we were younger are grandpa and grandma and papa and mama and aunt, they're all gone, you see. And they could see what we've been doing right along.

It wouldn't make a feel very good. Maybe they see it, but they don't come to tell us. We don't know what's going on there. But it comes to my mind. So you never can tell what's going to happen. I just beg my god that I can finish this job to the end there. But the funny part about the deal is it's surprising. They want to both sides. But you're going to do the other side of this? Yeah, that's what they said. She wants both sides Pablo. And she says you didn't care if you take three, four years or whatever. You've done two sided crosses before, right? Well, the other side that you want would be the story of the Strenura Wallupe. And then try to get other things that she mentioned.

She just made me a real rough sketch. And this is what I want. I told her it's going to take a long time. Not that we hold him back on my job, I told her it's that I don't feel good. Well, she said we're all going to die so you might have to also start working now. And that's the way it's done for this girl. I hope she likes it when she comes. Because she doesn't know what I'm pulling. It's a beautiful piece. Thank you. I think you're going to like it. It looks very nice when I put it up and down. Because it differs even the light in the house. It makes the shining part. That's why I have darker pieces here and there. So, I mentioned an interesting character couple. Why is it interesting in this art form? What is it about and neatly above this art form?

So painter is like mixing the colors. The lightness of the paint. The vividness of paint. What is it about? Is it textural? What is it about this art form that you really like? I know this isn't something you think about every day because it's funny. No, I think that's a very good question. Because I think that paint is a lot easier. I'm going to stop right there. When you ask the question, could you talk to her? Yes. Because the camera, you'll ask a question. I'll ask. Let me ask you the question. Okay. We talked a little bit about how much enjoyment you get out of this. But I guess on a more physical level of working with these materials. In particular, what is it that really attracts you to this medium as opposed to painting? Well, first of all, I think that you get the feeling of carving.

You come close to if you were carving. That's number one. Number two, it's a challenge in itself because it's a lot harder to work with this type of material than it would be with paint, you see. That's another one too. And this one here, either you make a right in sharp cut or you want it or you want to show the way you want it because the joint works. And things of that nature. And I think that theory can wipe because I'm in the midst of something that is very hard because you would find that painting, I love to paint. My way of life was when I was a young man. I started painting around maybe eight o'clock at night until the next day. And it was kind of a challenge because I wanted to see how far I could get to get what I really wanted

in the sense of the time that I was putting in. And over here, well, I can start two days ahead and theory I can go very far. And the reason for it is because the pieces are, some of them, they're brittle. Sometimes they break where you don't want to. Sometimes you put them in a place where you think they're glued and they come off. In other words, it's a real challenge. That's the way I've gone about it. You probably know more about straw as a material than most people. I would think so, yes, and not only that, but when you talk in terms of how they straw. Somebody said, you know what they're using this material to make decoration? Yes. Well, we know people that are building houses out of that now. You see, it's still serving some purpose for people making our veil off.

Well, it's going back to the land still, and that's the way that you were raised. These things here, we have the wood, we have everything that we're using. It's come from the ground now. Because we have the wheat, and we have the fine. And the whore we're going, I don't know what this is, that's part of the deal. So, for one thing I can tell you, it's a challenge. And I know that people like to experiment. That's another thing to experiment with me. So, you know, I see you touching, you try to break her? It almost just happened.

It just did. Today is Lincoln's birthday. And then, so, the day after tomorrow is Valentine's Day. That's right. That's when they gave me the open heart surgery. Valentine's Day. Valentine's Day. So, the nurses all started making little Valentine's and put it in around my bed, over at the Veteran Hospital. And so, I'll never forget. The one that remembers every move that they did, that day is my daughter-in-law. She was year old, like Kanye. You know what happened that day? I said, no. Well, this is what they did. Quite a few years back. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the tactile qualities of what this format is.

I think that it's really a combination of many, many medias in the art field. For example, right now, I'm trying to carve just a little piece here. So, that would be working with wood. And then, if you want to put a different color of straw, then it shows that you're working with paint. So, I think that it's really a combination of different media. You could say you're working with colors in the...

You can be working with color. You can be working with solid pieces that have no color, but they have a lot of feeling. I think that that makes you right. I was noticing we should have known that long time ago. And there are some of these pieces of straw, they're coarse. And then you find others that are nice and soft. Those are the ones that I like. The ones that are nice and soft. So, they don't break that you see, and then you can bend them whichever way you want to see. Oh, quite hard. So, do you think that this art form is something that people will see 50 years from now?

Let me tell you that, that's really something. Some of the... It's almost up in there. If you could talk to Kamala, yeah. Some of the people that... One lady by the name of E. Boyd Hall. She was very much interested, but she couldn't find any history in regards to this type of work. But what happened was, she tried to research a lot of places. And found out that some of those... Some of this work was done in Africa by the Pione. And that was somewhere around the 14th century. So, you can see that it lasted a long time.

The little piece that I worked on in 1937. And of course, you've got a lot of meat on your rough and tumble deals. You know, a lot of this stuff, especially when they're cleaning houses and they get rough treatments. Especially when people come to help you. And we used to have quite a few of those Indian pottery. It's just to delicate something like this, or maybe more. But you know, if they don't handle it right, they just roll from one top of the table and become pieces. That's when one person asked me about how long do you think you would last? I think that if...

The way I feel about it is that if you just go easy with the other, like any other one, imagine having piece of 16th century, from the 14th to the 16th century. Like I started, according to Eboid Hall, they started this type of work in Africa, around the 14th century perhaps. And then the Spaniards took it into Spain. And by 16th and the 15th century, the Spaniards brought it to New Mexico along the Rio Grande City. And with the priests. And that's where they brought a lot of those beautiful colors. But they weren't what we call the natural pigments. They were enameled, they were rotting in cans. Like by the same token, we have the teen work that the people do. And they were doing those.

But they used the cans, they cut it out, and they made lamps or whatever. That's the way they worked. But with the straw work, they used the straw here in New Mexico because it was an available material. Yes. You know, a lot of the work originally had been marketry work that was done with ivory and tortoise shell and all of that. But what they did here was they brought the used straw work because that's what was available. And they adapted it and made it into its own. Well, that's one of the reasons that they call it the poor man's cold because they wanted to decorate their churches. But this was a similarity to gold in appearance, not in Balion, but in appearance. And people working and they enjoyed it, you see.

I understand there are some places, somewhere in New Mexico, I don't know just where. They just could find a little tiny piece in the corner where they had done a little bit of this type of work. So, thank you. That's a good, that's a good, I didn't know that. It's a whole history that needs to be sort of printed and scripted. But it's interesting because the straw, if you think about straw being used for this, the straw was used for the adobas. It's a real major part of the life here. Very much so, in fact, when you say that, they used straw when they were plastering outside. And then when they ran, you could see the pieces of gold in between. But that was to hold them one together.

So, see the difference right then and there. It's a very resourceful sort of art form. I think, to me, to me, I find that one of the oldest traditions that we have to offer here in New Mexico. I mean, for the purpose that it was used for, decorating and building. They build the ordnance on the outside. They used a lot of straw and mixed it with mud in order to preserve the outside of the ordnance. And then how about making the adobas? So, there. So, do you realize the real enormous contribution that you made in taking this art form on? Because it had just about died out, or it had died out completely.

And if it weren't for you, it may not have been revived to the point where it is an accepted traditional art form today. Well, I did stop to think about it. But it never occurred to me with the exception like I was making an adobi, the plastering on the outside of the house, inside too, for that matter. And how important it was to use open straw. And I mentioned well back how there's building houses out of straw. But I never occurred to me that it was. Something that was brought in by the art in itself was introduced for not for the adobas. I think that they would have gone way far ahead for that matter. But as an art form, you realize the contribution you've made. To be honest with you, I never paid much attention and realized how much value you had.

So now that it's getting there, I think it's going to be nice for the new generation to see what was going on in this period up to the 2000 year. Because there's a lot of people working on them now. My family, my kids, my grandchildren and other people. The possibilities are there that they may continue for me to say to you who knows. People might be one. Somebody might come up using straw for something better than they say. But that's because of you. Doesn't that make you feel proud? I don't know. I wouldn't know what to answer because it was just a lucky break that I got into the problem. So it's exciting.

I'm sure that you feel that way in regards to keeping something going like this. And not only for myself, but for the family. I get so excited about my grandchildren. And I hate to say it, but I like to see my grandchildren. They're just kids enjoying it, you see. More than I do my grandchildren. My son Grande. I don't know. My brother, he's been at it for so long that he would be hard to say that he has stopped. When I'm stopped here, she'll carry on there. And that's the way it goes. I think we're okay for today.

I think what we're good to do is just since we've been working on this now today, it's a week. You guys coming tomorrow? Oh, yes. That's okay with you. Fine. Yeah. I enjoy. I want you to know that. Well, we enjoy enjoying. It's our privilege to be here. Well, Paul is working there. I'm working all by myself. And I do a lot of talking to this guy. I say, you know, you say, you work to me. Yeah. That's what my son, who is an embalm. I talk to those guys and they're so nice. You don't complain about anybody. Yeah, that's good. Yes. Most people. I don't know what you do before we're going to get this right here. Right there.

One second, please. You have some place. Did you get it? Can you do that? Please one more time for me? You bet. No, no, no, no. And we apply nothing to it. That's a complete job, you see. We don't have to. We don't have to go and put varnish or anything like that. You know, in other words, it comes out of the field. I have some over there that I'll give you. And it comes out of the field. And then you work out. When he's done, then I'll show you. Can you show? I'm sorry, sir. Can you show me one more time to point that out to me? Tell us of this four-man school. Yeah.

There's a nice spot there and here. And over here. That's my oyster. It gave me a hard time trying to make it. Here we go. You see, I can point them out like we're there and there. And what makes a sparkle like that? The difference in heat of the scroll. And if you can find for faces, I like to find something that would be light and darkened. It makes it a lot easier for me to work on. I'm going to have to go through all these little broken pieces and like here, that's a broken piece right there and over here. And that's the way I'll be when once I get all that part worked out.

And then from there, I'll share working now. I'll probably have a story of Christ when he was found in the temple. And then from the temple, he'll be going to the workshop to work with St. Joseph's. And then from there, he started his missions. And that's when he's taken prison. And that's the tragedy all the way through. And that's what I want to do on this side. But then I like to wait until the lady comes to see whether or not you change her mind about working on the other side. It seems to me what you wonder was to put a swivel, some kind, so that they could rotate it, you see. And I don't know whether they were going to put it in the church, or whether they're going to, I don't know, to be safe. So there's one lady in New York that we had people come.

Did you have that strategy? Would you like me to put the mic on her? Do we have a mic? Like in my photograph, I think I might put it on her. Well, but he's going to be saying stuff too, isn't he? Do we bring it? Do we have another one? Yes. Go ahead and tell me what you're doing. I'm cleaning my straw that I'll be using for my process. And I flattened them first for the feast. And that way, we'll all get another one. And flattened them first and removed them. And then I can put it in two pieces, which I can use as I go along. I opened them with my nail, of course, and flattened it again.

So we're ready for work with them. It's going to be beautiful. Beautiful shades, so you can tell. The longer the pieces, the better. From there on, we can divide them if we have to cut them smaller or whatever. Now you can use them for the borders also. The long pieces are in the water. They're really good.

Because they do curl up a lot, you know, if you're afraid of them. Can you go through that whole process for me one more time? Tell me about it from the very beginning. I just flattened these. I just started cleaning them. You know, at the little elbow, what do you call it? Let's see. And then I said, all right here, you remove that little thing there. And just open them. And that way, can flatten them. We'll be inside of the straw so that it would be a real thing to work on it. Also, use the long pieces for borders and bigger pieces that we have to put on. And the little ones we use for little things like little angels or little things that I throw my crosses.

And to fill out little spaces that have to be filled with straw. That's the way it goes, as far as cleaning them. Part of them real good. So you have to clean them inside first. And then on the outside to make it, or just trying your to. So I like to get the new and I do good colors on the straw. And remove the little ends. And then I just use the middle piece of the straw.

Oops, let's do this again. I open them with my nail. And then I flatten them and do the richer bread.