At Week's End; 819; AWE #819 From the Bull Ring

You Join us next for what may be a final trip to a legislative landmark on At Weeksend. Welcome to At Weeksend. I'm Kate

Nelson. Some say this building was dubbed with the nickname for the state capital, the Bull Ring, an arena for political combat. Others, however, say it refers to the oratory qualities of certain lawmakers. For good or bad, the Bull Ring has been a legislative fixture for 24 years. That may be ending though. The Bull Ring has plans to close and re -open another restaurant on the far side of the plaza. It's the end of an era for the New Mexico legislature. Join us now for a discussion about what this building has meant and what lawmakers will do without it. This is the Bull Ring restaurant. And this is Harry Jargett, the owner of the Bull Ring restaurant. Harry? I'm glad to see you. Tell us as we're working in with you had this bar since 1981. 1981, okay. What was it like back then? Already a legislative hangout, right? Yeah, it actually began in 1970. And it was

nice. It was a lot more heated up right then than now. What? Well, things were just a little probably a looser I think. And I don't think everybody was in there so much pressure. And I think the legislative process has changed so much that there's a short period of time and they got a lot of work to do. And so a lot more bills and they just don't have time to play. Are you saying that they're taking it more seriously now? I think so. I think they're the public who's watching everybody so much that they've got to work harder. You've told me in past sessions, particularly when the DWI issue was hot, that the liquor consumption dropped here during the session. About 50%. It was a lot that year. There was a lot of media coverage and everybody was just kind of afraid. But now I think they've come more responsible and how they eat, how they drink, they do. And we don't stay up from late. We probably close at midnight during the session now. But it's been a lot of fun. And there's also been the downside to the reputation of the boring.

Senate Majority Leader Eddie Lopez was let away in handcuffs one night after hogging the karaoke machine. Everyone can laugh about it now. I'm sure it wasn't that pleasant at the time. We've heard about fights here. People probably drinking too much. How did that, how did that side of the reputation affect you? You know, get reputations you do live up to or live down to. We'll live them down. And whenever you get this many people in one place in this short amount of time, there's going to be tension. And what fights we had, I remember one fight we had, I won't mention the name, but somebody slid a chair across the floor and it got on Paul Harvey News. I mean, it was it was nothing, but they seem to get blown out of proportion just a little bit. It was crazy for lawmakers the added again. So whatever the stigma they have, they have to carry it. The other side of the reputation is that this has been a place where lawmakers, lobbyists and staffers get together in a comfortable environment, work out the consensus deals that are part of politics.

How many I know for sure, but I can't tell you. No, I really don't know, but it's just a lot of less tension here than is over there so they can talk. Well, can you position does that put you in? You probably hear a lot of that going on. It's wonderful. I mean, I, it's nothing to do with what I do for a living, but it's it's just nice. It's fun to know and I think it's been such a big family to us because we take care of one another. You know, if they need anything, whether we catch their checks, we, we, we take care of whatever they want. So why the move now? The move is because it leases them. And rather than maybe trying to stay and fight this building, which is so old and to make it what we need to do to do more business, it costs too much money. So we're looking at a better location downtown, which is only about three -blocking here. And we're pretty, we're really excited about the move. This is this is a former Adobe house, quite old. You were citing your innovation figure to me that astounded me.

I think it is five between six and eight hundred thousand dollars. I mean, it is it's been granted for 25 years. It's it's out of code. There's no ADA and things have changed. So wherever it comes in here, whatever they do. Have you heard is anything planning to in the works? No, it would take years to do this. You know with the historical review, the architecture planning, it'll take a long time before anybody can come in. If there isn't a restaurant and bar here, what will legislators do? Well, I think they'll learn or just. You know, I think I think what we are as much as anything as is a convenience. I mean, obviously we're convenience. And maybe it might be better. You know, most of them stay down down. So I think on another location, which is true, but we'll get them. And what we're also going to do is run a shuttle for lunch every 15 minutes from the state capital to the new place. What's your final question here? We're surrounded on the walls by portraits of legislators and lobbyists and the like. I understand there's a strict screening review panel that will authorize what to take to get your picture on the wall of the boring. It's a

secret club. I can't tell you how much. No, whatever, whoever went up there, we basically put up. Actually, what we're going to do is maybe not do them so much. We're probably going to have a big auction and give the funds to the boys club. Very nice, very nice. Harry George had us the owner of the bowl ring. Thank you for joining us. Good luck at the next one. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Joining us now are two state representatives and longtime regulars of the Bull Ring restaurant representative Ron Gentry, a Democrat from Los Luna, the Lens, the Lens, excuse me, and Representative Max Callis Santa Fe Democrat. I'd like to start with just getting some some remembrances from each of you of the first time that you came to the Bull Ring restaurant. What was its reputation back then and what were you doing here? I first came here in 1967 and I came over to join the crowd that was

basically drinking and yucking it up in here. Although I'd quit drinking while I joined them anyway. How about you, Ron? When I came here it was in 1979 when I first started coming to the Bull Ring and it being close to the Capitol. I think we had a fire drill and everybody came here and we didn't reconvene that day. To stay with the Bull Ring the rest of the day? What sort of this building has attracted it in some people's minds? A bit of a sinister reputation over the years. It's part of the smoke -filled rooms of politics of your. There's got to be an upside to that though. The place that you came to to talk in a relaxed atmosphere. Tell me a bit about what happened here at the Bull Ring. That was good and that was bad as well. I think people don't realize that the Bull Ring is is a nice restaurant. It's fun where you can get away from all the pressures. It's just within a rock store, the Capitol building. Otherwise we have to go three, four, five blocks away just to have lunch. Visit with

your constituents out of the maze of the Capitol. This is a relaxing place where we can all just get down and come ride and discuss the issues and relax atmosphere and it's not that big smoke -filled room and all of those things don't go on. Sometimes it's a big smoke -filled room. It's a nice place to relax in and really start to enjoy and talk to your friends. Max, how many deals have been cut in this building? Who knows? Legislation is about consensus building. You have to communicate in order to come to an agreement. That's what it's about. It's really not a smoke -filled room atmosphere that brings that consensus, it's communication. And wherever it occurs, it's good for the process. We need to talk to solve our problem. So if you don't have this avenue and it's likely that next time the legislature meets the Bull Ring will have moved by then. Without this avenue, how will those sorts of consensus efforts take place? Well, we'll still do it. We'll still communicate. It's just the shame that this won't be a place that part of it goes on. You know, it goes on any place that people talk about the issues. And that's important to do there. Ron, what do you think? If

this sort of an avenue hadn't been here, where people could come together and talk in a relaxed way and so forth, would you have been able to get the legislatures work done in 30 days and 60 days? Well, I think we would have gotten and done, but I think it's much easier when you get to meet the people and just discuss in a free environment. The real issue is you can make the decisions quicker and understand the people's needs. How about the downside of it? There's been incidents here with a certain legislator in a karaoke machine. We've heard allegations of bar fights, so forth. Has it been an altogether healthy avenue to have the Bull Ring this close to the roundhouse? No, we're guardians of our own image and sometimes we mess up. Some legislators choose to fight or do crazy things, and when you and the press catch us at it while you take us out on the ant vid, I try not to do that. I think we all try not to do that, but sometimes we do poop up. Do you think that that's

changed in recent years? I hope so. I hope that all the legislators are conscientiously trying to do their jobs. Every now and then, somebody old slip, but I think we work real hard at doing the job, and I think all of us are dedicated to doing it properly. Ron, there's some question about what will happen to this building after this is all over. What would you like to see on this spot? Well, I hate to see it leave in the opportunity to be here, but I suspect it'll be a gallery or something. There'll be a good attraction here, and I'm sure they'll do the best of it. It's unfortunate with all the history and the nostalgia that it's going to be gone, and it's sort of a shame. Do you have your pictures on the wall here? No. No, we don't frequent here that much naturally. Of course, neither do I. I'd like to thank you both for being with me today. I know that you have a busy floor session. Final week of the legislature here, I've got to throw in this question. Are we looking at a special session? Can you get this work done this week? I hope we get the work done. I hope we don't have a special session, but we're doing our best to come to a consensus and agreement,

and if we don't, we'll have a special session. That's the way it'll go. Nobody knows yet. The bullring will still be open, then we hope. Thank you both for being here. Good luck with the final week. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Welcome now to our representative Kip Nicely, a Republican from Albuquerque. This is your third two -year term that you've just begun here now in that brief period of time. What is this building meant to you? Have you been over here very often, either? Bullring has not meant anything to me legislatively. I've had some fun here socially, but not I haven't discussed any real issues. I've more had friends in from out of town or fellow caucus members kind of a place to unwind. I get sick of talking about work. I hate bringing work to play, so it's a fun thing. Does that reputation hold up? Is it a place where other lawmakers come to get legislative work done?

Not in my view. I think it's more of a place to get away from it all. I don't see it as a place to come and let's hammer out some deal or let's hammer out some legislation. When I'm over here, it's a couple times a session at the end and when I've got some friends in and let it hang out and not worry about what happened during the day. And still be close to the roundhouse. It's very possible that when you come back into next year's 30 -day session, the Bullring will have moved on by then and this could be an empty building. Is that a loss? I think some place will pick up the slack on it. I mean, it is proximity is what probably keeps what it is. I would guess it probably just move next door to the Pink Adobe or something. I'm sure that Gary loves the idea that it's so probably be an art gallery or something. I don't think it'll be an empty building. What will you miss about this building? About this business being in this building? I'm going to miss the owner. Not so much the building. I think Gary's just one heck of a public

relations guy and I mean that in a positive sense. He's always upbeat. He always has a little kind of shining remark. And I think that keeps everyone going. The building doesn't. I guess I don't have enough historical perspective. The building means a lot to me. It's just another saloon, but Harry means a lot. This number of other lawmakers have talked about this building being conducive to learning about issues that are before the legislature being among your colleagues in a relaxed atmosphere. Politics is the art of compromise and consensus and that's representative democracy at its best. You are now in that final stage of the session when compromise is everything. How has this session in that respect been different with having a governor on the fourth floor who doesn't seem to buy the old rules of cutting deals and compromise? Two things for me, while one during the last four years during the King administration,

I saw the governor once for about five or six minutes. I visit Gary every day now. So I have a lot. I know a lot more what's going on and I don't. You know they say he's not political. I think he's pretty astute politically and that you can't figure the guy out and that's what I think his strength is is that you don't know where he's coming from. He's not predictable. What does that do for the consensus building process? Well we've done a lot of our consensus building within our caucus. We have 60 % of our members in the House of Freshman, 15 of the 24. So they're able to learn the process and sort of learn from us old guys, you know four years into it. I'm five years into it and I'm the experienced guy out here. So they're following us and learning. We have a bright group. So at least for this term, you know we've got a pretty strong tight group. But at some point in that it has to go beyond the caucus enough into the governor's office where what has happened in the past sessions under a number of past governors is the doors get close to the public and to the press and a deal is cut behind those doors. Is

that likely to happen under this governor? Too hard to tell. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. You don't know where he's coming from and that's from both sides. You don't know where he's coming from. I don't and I probably know better than any legislator up here. Very interesting. Okay. Kip nicely. Thank you for joining us here today. Good luck with the rest of the session. Oh, it's wonderful. It's great having him up there. Joining us now is Senator Roman Mayes, a Democrat from Santa Fe, their home turf right here. How long have you been coming to the ballroom? Oh, it's been about 14 years. What would you remember your first time in here, what you'd heard of this place in the step to the side? I just got not a law school. That was back in 1971 and I came to the blowering for the first time and I was impressed when I walked in there was I recall correctly the recenter

Joseph Montoya sitting there and with his brother Ted Montoya. I remember the was Governor Jerry Apalac in the room. If I have a Korean call correctly, so is the lieutenant governor. I had at that time I think an interview with Tony and I for a job and he was then working as the Ministry of Aid to Governor King and it was really an opportunity to come in and see the place. You know Rob Alples with the so -called Politico's and big shots at the state. What sort of things have you seen happen in here over the years? Oh, I've seen very festive events. I saw a fist fight here one time. Between whom? Why don't we call? Oh, how could you do that? State who was, but I saw a fist fight here and I saw some people having some very serious, very gut -oriented discussions. English pointing and I have

this very much tightened. I've seen some very happy faces. I've seen I've danced here with my wife where I mentioned my wife and I've had some very nice, I don't drink. See I haven't had a drink in 14 years but I like to visit people and people are in it and it's an opportunity to come here. For someone who doesn't drink, next call doesn't drink and he comes here as well. What's the fun of coming to a bark, of coming to this bark when you're not going to be consuming the main thing they sell? Well, I love people and a lot of the people that are here have just a general interest that I do and that's politics and people and typically it relates to what is happening that day and what's planned for the future and the direction the state should go and believe me they're sober discussions just because you come to the bullring doesn't mean that you've had five rings or planned to have five more. Like myself there's a lot of non -drinkers that came to the bullring and

to have wonderful discussions and to meet people. How much work gets done here? I would say some. I wouldn't say put it on. I was thinking about that when I've got the invitation to come here and I would say about percentage but I don't know at what level. I know I've had discussions about major issues here with other people, other senators, I've had constituents come and meet me here for lunch. They want to buy me a lunch or I buy them a lunch and it's an opportunity for them to come to the bullring and kind of robables with people and meet their state senator. So I have no problems with that. Do you want to meet her? That's fine. The amount of work that gets done here today is that different than say 20 years ago when when I hear long -timers talk about the legislature it seemed like in the old days there really were two people running the session and what they said was what you voted yes or no on. Has that changed? I think norms have changed. I would say what you're saying is

totally correct. Maybe there was more of a serious discussion format than people don't drink as much as they used to and as a result don't necessarily come to bars. Also there's a lot of people that just don't like to be around bars. This is probably one of the only one I ever come to as a non -drinker or I'll take my wife out to a restaurant so we don't go to bars. I don't frequent bars but this is one that I kind of meet the fellas. Folks are here. Final question too. You are a Santa Fe realtor. You know what this property in this location could be worth. What do you think will come into this place next? I don't know. I would suspect maybe a gallery. Does I understand they're going to have to do some some things associated with the building code but I would say possibly a gallery. It's got so much history. It's kind of sad to see it go. You know the thick walls, the beautiful bigas, the faces that you

see here, the rubbing of shoulders and the opportunity to meet important people of our state. By people just generally I remember distinctly a man came out to me and told me that he had lunch at the bullring and he says at that lunch I met the governor. I shook hands with him. I met a US senator and I met three members of the House of Representatives and one guy from the state senate and where else typically could you do that? I don't think you don't watch the DC or most other states. So it's been a very very centralized location. Only in New Mexico. Only in New Mexico. Senator Mayas, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for your question. We welcome now Senator Pat Lyons, a Republican from somewhere between Tukumkari and Clovis. Big ranching area. There are. I represent a largest district in the state with all the more history in New Mexico. Largest

in geographic terms. There's three people living there as I understand it. You are the third year of your first term. What have your experiences been over here at the bullring? When I first came up here I never had a play at the office anywhere and I just sat around for office and got elected. Back in my home where either there's always a water hole somewhere where the cowboys go so I said well this goes here. We call it the bull pin and get over here and it's called the bull ring. Didn't even have a name right? We have a name right? We just started to come over and have a few bears and really just need to come over and visit with everyone because the stress level is a lot lower. You're a lot more relaxed after leaving another capital and personal tough days over here. Come over here and just relax with the same people you're fighting against all day long. You are a freshman lawmaker. Tell us a bit about what it's like to come up here. I'm sure you're filled with dreams of how you're going to reform the system and take it by storm. What happens then when you get up here? What do you find out? You're right. You come up here and you try to do everything but

one thing you do learn that government moves real slow. Everything's a slow process. It takes a lot longer than you think and you just have to have patience and you have to know how to work. Use the system in a political process. That's something I didn't know. You have to know how to work. Use the political process and that's how you get things done. How long does it take to learn that? This is my second 60 -day session. I'm just now catching on. It takes at least three years. One 60 -day session, one 30 -day session, and my 10 is the next 60 -day session comes around. You learn how to do it. So what does it say for Governor Gary Johnson? Has he figured out the political process? No, he's still in the learning process. He's still has learned a lot of learning to do. I don't know if you ever get it figured out because the name has changed. People change here. Part of learning that political process, the politics before people, part of what happens up here, is what happens here in the blurring. It's what happens in the closed committee rooms of the legislature. The avenues in which legislators discuss their business sometimes carry a bit of

less than savory reputation. Is it always so bad that legislators are meeting away from the public eye to get some of their work done? No, as for committee meetings over, I think that you're open. Come over here and you're talking about things. It shouldn't be, I mean, really get down to some real, real tactical talking. And the things should be, you're over here and you're kind of building a camaraderie. You're building a bonding between the other senators here. It's really, that's what really it is coming over here. You kind of get more trust between each other. And if you sit down over common ground and sit down and have a common drink and you just talk things out, kind of work things out. You work out some common ground. And that's what's nice about coming over here. The governor is a different breed in a lot of ways to keep his sanity through this session. He's running triathlons and snowshoeing up in the Sangre de Christos and so forth. Is having a bar as the hangout been an entirely healthful avenue for lawmakers? Oh, I think it's a, I definitely think the blurring will be replaced with another water for the legislature because I think there's a,

it just, it just makes things more relaxing when you leave on a tense day and you come back and you can talk things out in here. You know, I think it's definitely, it works. Yes. I mean, there's different people use different techniques to relieve tension, such as you said the governor does. I think this, this help is helpful over here. You're going to miss this place though? Oh, definitely. I miss this place in the hairy boat. I don't know how sure we can find another spot. Okay. Thank you Senator Lions and good luck the final week of the session. Okay. Senator Michael Sanchez, a Democrat from Berlin has raced over from the floor of the Senate or you are just presenting a bill on the floor. What's this placement to you over the, the three years that you've been in the legislature? The boring? Yeah. Well, it's meant to place to come and be with friends and discuss a lot of different issues. Some relating to Valencia County and others relating to the whole state of New Mexico, but it's, it's been a place where you can come

enjoy yourself and find good, friendly people. Decisions get made here? I don't think the decisions that affect the state get done here. I think a lot of other decisions get done here in terms of maybe who your friends are and, and knowing those types of things, but decisions that affect the state, I don't believe so. Surely another place will either open up or will begin drawing the legislative crowd to, to its hallways and, and barways and whatnot. What, what, what will be missed about this place in particular? Well, actually the location, the location in one, of course. Of course. That should be able to come here and get the good quality food that you get. And just again, the camaraderie, it's it's just the unbelievable, the types of people that go through here and, and the types of people you meet. What is, what is it like? You were a freshman lawmaker at this stage of the session. We're down to one week. What's, what is the pace like? How easy is it to understand what's, what's flashing in front of you at, at any moment?

Well, the, the pace is very hectic, of course. We're working 12, 14, sometimes 16 hours a day. As long as you look at the bills, read the analysis, you have a pretty good idea of what's going on. I don't think it's for everyone, but people should try to be in the legislature to understand this frantic pace that we go through not only now, but it's, it's even hectic early on. And, and when you're new, it sits hard to learn. There are, viewers, there are people in the state who, who don't think that the boring has been a positive influence on the legislature. Has that negative side been there? I think it's been a positive side in terms of knowing and, and getting to meet other individuals that you might not have the chance to on the floor. Sometimes those aisle separate us a little bit. And when you get in here, I don't think you talk about Democrats or Republicans, you just talk to each other as human beings. And, and

that makes a big difference. What a wild concept talking to one another as human beings. Senator Sanchez, thank you for joining us today and good luck with this. I appreciate it. I've always been a fan of yours. Oh, thank you. Okay, and the top left here is Rudy Valencia and he works with the legislature a lot. Lower right down here is Ex -Governor Jack Campbell. Up here is Spread McCafferty. He's a news columnist. And it's our Senate Protett Maniairgon. Over here, Sammy Fields. Sammy was a lobbyist with El Paso, Natural Gas for many, many years. Now he's unconsulting with him, but he's still, he's still a player in the legislature. Okay, he's on the side all along. That's Carl Turner. He's a, around New Mexico, real electric for a million years. About a million. Okay, that's Mary Stucatera. She's now a lobbyist for the New Mexico Hospitality Association. And that's Art Locker. Art Locker was a famous guy around the legislature for a hundred years. He passed away a couple of years ago. The next one is Ernie Carey's. Ernie's with state government now and he's

pretty powerful. One of the tribes are set in a mingle.