¡Colores!; 305; Santero; Interview with Marie Romero Cash; Tape 1

Mae'r rwy'n mynd. Mae'r mynd. Mae'r mynd. Mae'r rhomero as�� sy'n ex caught chimwn. Mae'r rhomero asíun añod regeneration wneau. Mae'r rhomero dyn i un沢i Sir Сantera. Can you describe that for me? Santo aesaint, yma ond cael ar thans, barnait y warb diadd. sy'n fartelog o gynliad, ac roeddol sy'n caen yng nganyach sy'n urtycsenn ar ond.

Po hri泵 o ganee o broedd. Rydyn yr oeddaill, yn neud responseel ac mae cwestiwn Judd ar gondzeu am i'n llwb enweddengo enwpansionadau hyn. Eidolóbraith birthdayedu yna maelestic dortioogddataniaid cael wedi gymellbar festoedd 78–160 Mrs Domin being helpful to decorate the churches and the difficulty of obtaining artwork from Mexico was an obvious one and it took some times up to three years to get the minimal things

that the Francis could need for the missions. So at some point during the mid 1700s Bot yn sarr i wedi Paulus Dominíder. Dissywn ei botau sgwthord diwll Дiiim a'i sut. Sakuraementfu eriao ac iddynu am U mae ymgylu yn ddonelach gweld y exchangedfaic ddedgym haайd, Sifri cael peacoel. Maen nhw tastyboi, it venti gwù i winio prefer 300 cuesprochen, ottog nhwnau, parion oed o'og 1 tim trwy o scundei maen nhw yna coel o'w gen komau'r maen nhw'n gweith sy'n hwn mai hwnni wyt bedroom hyn. Fel ma acidaxio ar y poddegodioedd yn argymau rydag gymy wedi mynd

Myn, a gwuno no wrth wedi fyndBL Ynhyrên? Ch ski i'r ili ydyn ni'n gwiraeth syddai ddigitWhat It is very important for the New Mexican person to have some sort of symbol that illustrates their faith and the Santo is one way by which that can be done. Good, good. Can we go over some kind of why you got into doing this?

I started doing Santos for living in the mid-70s. I had returned to Santa Fe and I was looking for something that would fill my artistic need. And my sister Anita at the time was already painting retablos and carving. She said go ahead and try this and I said they're so primitive looking and I really wasn't touched by anything she was doing. It was because I didn't know what she was doing. And she encouraged me to start and for whatever reason one day I was sitting trying to find something to do and I got a hold of a board and just so did and did my first retablo. And after that I started carving at some point but it wasn't enough for me to do that. I needed to know why, where they came from, who made them, what were these people like?

When did they do them, what did they mean? And so it wasn't just a way to earn being money as I call it. It was a way to do something that had full meaning for me. So after a number of years I was asked by Father Jerome Martinez to paint an altar screen for the renovation of the church in Orita. And I can't do it, not me and I tried to push him off onto my sister and said no you know Anita can do this for you. I was very unsure because I didn't even know what an altar screen looked like. Number one being raised in Santa Fe we were not raised with the Santos surrounding us. We had our plaster of paris Santos in the cathedral, we had a plaster of paris Christo, everything that we had was either wood or plaster of paris. And so we were not brought up with altar screens and surrounded by the old Santos on our altars and in our churches.

So quite frankly I didn't even know what an altar screen was and I told Father Jerome this and he arranged to take me on a tour of Northern New Mexico. We went to Truchas and Trampas and El Valle and a great number of churches that I had never been in. And I got to actually see the Santos there raining over the altar and being totally aware that this was something that was still going on in these communities. Whereas in Santa Fe we were still worshiping saints that were plaster of paris. So at that time I didn't understand the connection between our French church and the New Mexican church, the true church of the Northern New Mexican villages. So it was quite a revelation to me to take this tour. And through that I was able to figure out the configuration of an altar screen and therefore build one for Father Jerome. And that brought more work for me from the different churches around in the area, I also did altar screens for a number of them.

And my curiosity peaked when I asked him if there was some sort of place I could go to see a listing of all these Santos and he said there was none. So this prompted Jack Parsons and myself, photographer, to do a survey of all the Santos in the Northern churches. So this added to my education because we started in Santa Fe and ended up at Cuesta and then we went into the southern pueblos and we did a great number of maradas at the time. And through that it amassed a knowledge for me of the actual Santero. And I think the difference in being able to see something and touch it and see what it looks like rather than looking at a photograph, you feel, you can feel the wood and see how it's done. It was far more important to me than just looking at it in the photograph, which I had always done. So I didn't really know what a Santo was by looking at it in a photograph.

I had to touch them to look at them to be able to measure them and look at their condition and what was the difference in what made this one different than this one in style so that you would know that one particular Santero did a piece rather than another. So it was quite a revelation to me and consequently throughout my career, for the last 20 years, I have had that curiosity about who made it, who did it, how was it made and when and why. And if I had one wish it would be to actually be able to talk to one of these Santeros. If I get to heaven, that's first place I'm going, you know, Raphael, what was this about and how did you do it and just to be able to do these. Because you know, most of the Santeros speculate, of course, as to how the old Santos were done, because we really, really don't know. There's much research that says they were cottonwood and jessol, but we don't really know how the jessol was made.

We can just assume that it was made in a particular way and the natural pigments also, many of them were imported and consequently you can't say that they were local pigments because perhaps the roots and plants and other things were gathered on the way to Colorado or on the way to Arizona or somewhere in the immediate area. But a number of the pigments were imported or Mexico. So it makes it interesting to be able to actually have a little insight as to what the Santero is about. What, how important is it to you or can we speculate and kind of discuss the importance of getting back to as a culture. Recognizing and looking at those older traditions and trying to recognize them and embrace them. Because of the French influence, I mean, it seems to me now that there's more of an influence toward the northern to Mexico and the real and Mexican kind of iconography and everything.

What does it mean to you to be able to kind of contribute to that, to be able to kind of bring that full around back to where it was when the colonists kind of first started this in the 1800s? One of the things that is important in trying to preserve a tradition is realizing that no matter how hard we try, we are still contemporary Santeros. Because we're working in a contemporary period. We are in the present trying to preserve something that is traditional. And therefore, the way we do it has to be in our own style. And that is our contribution is actually doing something not as a copyist, but as someone who can bring their own style into something. And of course, I'm saying it's very easy to start that way, and that's the way you do start. You get all the books, you look at all the figures by Raphael Ergolin or the paintings, and you try to duplicate them.

But somewhere in there, and somewhere in time you start to move away, and you start to do the eyes a certain way and use a certain yellow that you like or a certain red that wasn't used by the Santeros. And you can experiment to whatever degree with natural pigments and ultimately end up with doing it the way you want to do it. One of the things that I have had a great deal of controversy with other people about is somebody saying this is the way it has to be done. It doesn't have to be done that way because you're doing it, and certainly your style and your way of doing things has to come into play. You also can use whatever type of wood you feel most comfortable with, as opposed to always using cottonwood, which cottonwood root is not always available to those of us who are fairly certified. Could be in the urban areas, the outline areas, there may be a lot of cottonwood available, but it is not available for a carver as such.

So consequently we tend to move to other woods. And I think while we are trying to preserve the craft, I think what we're seeing is a chain, some sort of length that connects the Santero of the 18th and 19th centuries to the 20th century Santero by the type of work we do. I don't know that there's anybody who has equaled Raphael Eragon. I mean we have a lot of wonderful carvers, some Santeros who are extremely talented, and their pieces are very good. But when you go back and you look at the old pieces, this was an era that probably will never be equaled by someone in the present state. Great, great. Stop for just a second. What I'm looking for is if you could kind of explain the unique devotion that the Hispanic community has to these images.

And just kind of ramble a little bit about that if you would, especially when you've been talking about the interviews that you have for the altars that you work on your book for. I'm kind of looking more as a just person to person account, you know, you're talking really to the people at home. And I kind of just want them to understand how much of a devotion that these people have. We're talking about human beings that kind of need that and I kind of wanted to address that kind of need. One of the reasons that people have Santeros in their house is to be able to have someone to express their devotion to.

Most generally, when you speak to a saint, you can put all your problems, lay all your problems at your little alter your little devotional space and then go on with your life. When the colonists were first in New Mexico, they really had nobody to turn to. Times were hard. It was a difficult living. Indian raids were ongoing. Their safety was always in question. And so they had to have something that they could count on. And what they could count on always was their faith. And this has been something that has been passed on from generation to generation. And it usually starts with the grandmas and goes down to the moms, the Awelitas, the Tias. You get someone who is always there that has a lot of faith and prays for everybody in the family. In today's homes, particularly the Spanish homes, you will find that it is the women who make their altars, who put the saints on the altars, who take care of them, who clean them, who put the rosaries there and do the praying in general for the family.

And that is not to say that men are not religious. Men are spiritual in a different way. They have more of a solid idea of their spirituality and they put it on the altar in a different way than women do. Women tend to kneel and be very devotional to the saints where men can pass by the altar, do the sign of the cross and that is a sufficient statement of their spirituality. I have found that in most New Mexican families there are specific needs that are always prayed for good health, financial security, keep the children on a trouble, pray for somebody's health. There are women who write the little prayers onto a piece of paper, put it in the Santo Nino's hand, when that prayer is granted they take it off and go on to the next prayer.

Sometimes there is a number of prayers that are being said at the same time. It is something that in today's society everyone needs a quiet place they can go. And when they're with the Santos in whatever form, whether it be in a completely religious setting as in church or if it's on a home altar or if it's just right before you go to sleep, everyone needs that particular time to be able to go over the days happenings and look forward to the following days happenings and if it's within anticipation or with hesitation there is also a saying that you can call upon to say, hey, I'm going to be doing some real heavy stuff tomorrow, I would really like your help. And you generally, if you have enough faith, the help will come from somewhere. Most of the Santeros who do this work are very spiritual in nature, some more than others and some not at all, but it doesn't detract from their work.

When you're doing something that is as spiritual, for instance, as painting the stations of the Cross with the Cathedral, I think you find that there is a spirituality that has always been there. And it was held by a little silver thread and God just knew he left that thread kind of slack, but when you're working on a major project that it needs that involvement, he pulls the thread and kind of ties you in right close to it. I found in doing the stations a complete reversal of my life in that I was spiritual and I was the off time Sunday Catholic or once a month, weekend Catholic, whatever, whatever it was, but nonetheless I was a Catholic. And I would go to church periodically, but as I found myself working on something as spiritual as the crucifixion and the torments that Christ experienced, I found myself becoming more spiritual and trying to understand more what this whole space we have on Earth is about.

So I spent a lot of time going back to church to look at the 13th station that was hanging there and in the process I would walk to the conquist of that a chapel and light for candles and I don't know why I chose for, I was always two for the family, one for me, one for the kids, whatever it worked out to. And I found that I was becoming calmer, more serene.