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In front of the assembled Senate and House of New York, the beginning of what promises to be one of the most stormy sessions in New Mexico legislative history, although that was difficult to tell from the governor's address. We'll be analyzing his address now, here at the studio in K &M, joining me, distinguished panel of those who watch the legislature closely. Ruth Hoffman is executive director of Common Cause, New Mexico, and a member of the governmental ethics task force. Marcos Martinez, his news director and anchor of KUNM Radio, the National Public Radio Affiliate in Albuquerque at the University of New Mexico. Pauline Eisenstadt is a business woman and a former four -term representative from San devol county, a veteran of the body we just witnessed. And George Scott Colerone is executive producer at KRQE, the CBS affiliate in Albuquerque. Let me ask you, Pauline, any surprises in this address? This was Vintage Bruce King, wasn't it? Vintage King accent, Vintage King
generality in its substance. Well, I'm surprised there were no applause. Perhaps he was rushing too much, he never paused long enough to give the body a chance to applause. There were a few spots in there which I think they might have agreed with. I think the ethics in the DWI and his recognition that something has to happen. I think the majority of the legislative body is going to understand that too. Let me, let me quote from a philosopher named Schopenhauer. He talks about the three stages of truth. And he says the first stage is ridicule, the second stage is violent opposition, and the third stage of truth, it becomes self -evident. I think the DWI reform laws are self -evident. And I think the ethics legislation, although I think we could argue about what's in there, but it is also self -evident to me that these are things that need to happen. The major part of a session is always dealing with the budget.
So I mean, that's clearly going to be a fair amount of arguing about how that pie is divided up. And he did include no surprise, three different tax increases, not general taxes, but on cigarettes and changing the gas, the way the gas is taxed. Let's take each one of these. I do remember Schopenhauer at one point talking about the marriage of porcupines. He said it was a difficult mating process. And for those who first hearing Bruce King, it may be difficult to parse what's really in this address. Let's take the last first. He ended with what will be for many New Mexicans, the most important issues of this session, drunk driving reform. How much is really in here, George? Is King responding to the public outcry that we're hearing? The governor is definitely responding to the public outcry. His proposals are nothing new, though. He recommended them last week. But I think what we're going to see now is that we have one
person, Nadine Milford, who is on a crusade. And she's not a professional lobbyist. And she's going to do battle or go up against these professional lobbyists who represent the liquor industry. And the public is going to see that. And the liquor lobbyists are going to be perceived. They have to watch what they're doing. And those who joined with them are going to have to whose side with the liquor lobby are going to be perceived as the bad guys in this situation. But there is so much emotional outcry over this topic that I think a lot of legislators are waiting for a couple of weeks and a lot of this stuff died down. And to quote another philosopher from New Jersey who sang a song, my way, I think Manny Ergon and Senator Ergon and Representative Sanchez are going to end in the end, win in this battle. That's a rather grim prospect for all those people out there who are so concerned. Marcos Martinez is the governor really dodging this issue. He's dodging the tax issue.
He's as you should take a close look at it. He doesn't say, I endorse everything that Attorney General Udall wants to do. How much leadership is there here from the governor on an issue of statewide urgency? I have to say there isn't a whole lot of leadership. A lot of what the governor talked about are issues that other people have brought up, that events have sort of brought to the front pages and to the forefront. And I think that the governor is really following the leadership whether it's been put forward by the public or the Attorney General and ultimately I think he's going to go ahead and let the lawmakers themselves formulate the fill in the details in some of these issues and he'll probably follow along. I would add that one thing I think is missing from this DWI package is something that would go to the bottom line which is the state lawmakers and I don't see anything that really addresses that. Well there is
of course the ethics legislation which Ruth Hoffman you've had a role in formulating and these two issues are linked aren't they? We're talking about the liquor lobby but if you got a strong ethics package wouldn't you address the influence of lobbies like this? To be frank the ethics package which we fully support is a disclosure package and I think once these interests and how much money they're pouring into state government it's really disclosed I think it will be even more frightening to some out there on this issue. I think you can never separate money in politics and that's what happens in all issues and I certainly think that the liquor lobby is out there and very concerned that you can tell in the quotes in the newspaper that they're on the defensive the kind of letters they're circulating to raise money to fight these issues where they're coming from they're thinking of all kinds of angles which is what lobbyists do how to how to approach and how to remain that I think one problem we have in New Mexico not only do we have
money in politics our political circle is very small and not only are a lot of a liquor lobbyists able to to fund campaigns and make large contributions there are also close personal friends of a lot of leaders in this state and that adds another dimension that's really hard to get a handle on but even if you get disclosure don't you still need then public action or in in lieu of public action some leadership in the political arena I mean to disclose is one thing to really change the attitude in the actions of a legislature something else I mean I'm I guess I'm pointing back to the kind of vacuum here which exists in this in this address he seems to be saying we've got serious problems I leave it to you which is which is not an activist role for a governor is it I agree and I think I think that one thing that came out of the ethics task force that I was really pleasantly surprised at that the task force itself the more you get into the issue of money and politics and its insidious nature on our democracy that all
roads lead to public financing you know politicians will be not able to say well we don't want to ask the public to fund our elections that's not the question the question is who owns the elections and will the public continue to allow special interest to fund those elections or will they take that responsibility themselves pulling eyes instead you you carried the the ball without much without much glory I must say for years with against great opposition in ethics reform these these issues really are linked aren't they it's not an accident we didn't have a tougher standards on DWI the leadership of the House and the Senate among the top recipients of liquor industry money in this state are we going to see some change both in DWI and in ethics legislation out of this legislation well let me do the ethics first I've been introducing that legislation for four years always bipartisan the last session I had over forty four signatures rank and file not the leadership foreign ethics commission you raised the possibility of enforcement that's the
key in my mind and the legislation being proposed is good as far as it goes but it's disclosure that's only a piece of what ethics legislation is about to me the major ingredient of ethics legislation is conflict of interest prohibitions I mean when you take a trip a golfing trip or you go to the Super Bowl or something like that and and the public wonders about it if we had an ethics commission in place then the commission could look at that and say well no we don't think that's appropriate well Ruth is talking about public financing too which is isn't that in the cards it could well be I think the amount of money having to be raised and you notice in the paper today this same ethics commission committee endorsed not allowing any federal elected official to use money they raise to run in a statewide race I don't know how that becomes a part of an ethics legislative package it looks like it might be directed at some of our
present lawmakers well that's a rather I think many would say rather naked political ploy to on Bruce King's part to to keep Bill Richardson out of a governor's right I don't know necessarily if it's Bruce I'm not sure bill would run against Bruce I think it may be the ones in the second tier looking when there's an open seat to prohibit bill from coming back with a half a million dollars and running against current ones but other states I mean Wisconsin for example has public financing now of the legislative races in Minnesota I mean other states have done this and and hasn't it made a difference Ruth in terms of the power and influence of special interest it has made a difference you have to there is the hundred percent solution which we don't necessarily support you need to demonstrate that you we think people should go out and collect small contributions from from their constituents and from people within the state and that be matched with public funds and and and then put a cap on how much any one person can give any pack that sort of thing aggregate pack limits it's a very complex issue but public
financing in the public has to understand that that's in their best interest and that's how you get special meant interest money out of politics yeah is public financing let's let's move on Marcos to some of the other aspects of this address the governor talked about raising taxes on cigarettes that's going to invite I would guess the wrath of the of the tobacco lobby already very powerful in New Mexico he's talking about raising gas gas natural gas and coal taxes as well which I would guess will invite those lobbies are we going to see a fight on the floor in what even these relatively modest revenue revenue enhancements that governor King has proposed I think there's a good chance of that I you know there really hasn't been in my view any real fundamental change in the attitudes that that dominate at the legislature and I think that one could expect that there would be those fights and that it would be very difficult to get these these taxes that the governor has brought up enacted I think in in some instances and the most notable
one again is DWI where you have this tremendous public outcry perhaps there's a chance that that you could get some momentum built up behind that but in terms of some of these other issues including perhaps things like health care there may not be the the the momentum there to really get past the the the tremendous resistance that will no doubt surface well that's one of the most powerful lobbies in in Santa Fe and the governor alluded to what he called the hungry bear of Medicaid breaking into the pantry here and yet he takes no real position on health care reform on representative calls bill the Canadian single -payer system which will be on the floor he just says you'll be considering a number of pieces of legislation and I do want to point out that we've got a foundation grant here to study our future I think that that message is clear the message there is you can talk about it but I'm probably not going to pass it I mean if it comes to his desk I think what he was saying as
I would read it having worked with governor king over many many years is that let this commission do its work let's talk about it it's complicated let's not pass anything to not not this year not now judges obviously the media is very very much on the case in Santa Fe aren't they I mean your station has been covering this DWI controversy others we're going to be doing in in collaboration with KRQE a KNME a special on ethics reform in New Mexico is this having an impact on are they getting it in the sense of understanding how much public frustration and agitation yes yeah and the governor in from this address well I think the governor understands or unless he's putting up a good front we had him on TV the other day talking with Mrs. Milford the legislators some of them seem to understand the ones that in the leadership I don't know if they get it yet we the letters in the editors and both of the
city's newspapers have been blasting both in particular speaker the house but I want to get back to something real quick on on ethics is that nothing will get done unless this ethics reform bill or something strong gets passed for instance I don't I don't think the tobacco lobbyists are going to sit still obviously we know that and I think it will be a compromise on that as far as the natural gas deal the people who will be paying that tax anyway are not in this state so I don't see a big battle there but I do see a big battle in tobacco I do see a big battle with the DWI issue and I and I think that because of that the state will suffer everyone suffers because of these two issues because the lobbyists select few people are going to be able to persuade or sway a vote how do we break through that cycle I mean we we know now what's going to happen don't we and I think I think for a representative I just said here we do need some kind of enforcement commission we do need some kind of conflict of interest law
along those lines another example is down south in someone park there when I used to live in El Paso there's a medical waste incinerator down there now and the people who live in that area were getting sick from this they burn up age refuse and needles and all that stuff and the people in the area are getting sick they went and complained to their representative he was a state senator he listened to what they had to say he holds a hearing for them when they all showed up at the hearing he was there sitting on the panel with the medical waste company because he happens to be there attorney to represent them to get their license with the environmental protection exactly what Pauline was talking about earlier yeah this is how I don't think people really understand how important ethics is how it affects everybody down the line but do legislators understand do they get it because I often it seems to me we're often confronted with this kind of moral bafflement on the part of some of these people I saw many Erigan
the president of the senate and Ray Sanchez the speaker of the house the other day on television looking confused almost befuddled at the at the public outrage over DWI well I think that they their their reaction is honest and genuine because we've had accidents like this before I don't mean to downplay the accident on Christmas Eve but just last year we had a woman in broad daylight drive down the street drunk and run through a front yard and and hit a young girl and crush her against the wall that was the same instance people forget okay it took this incident over Christmas Eve because of the timing because legislators come and close because of the holidays they make people really think be outraged by this but a lot of legislators manny and and Ray are hoping that towards the end of the 60 day session people are going to start forgetting or just these DWI reform bills are going to get watered down and you have to excuse me get watered down the count the count the count the count on
the apathy yeah of the voters but I think this time around a mistake and because of what we seen in November with Perot and that people are really generally concerned and outraged and did you find that Ruth and going around the state with this task force people really are fed up I attended most of it we did meet around the state and there were people people are fed up and they have people can we can call them fickle but people have lives and I think they they we want to trust their public officials to do the right thing and not to have to be looking over their shoulders all the time they are delegating this is a representative democracy I think part of the bafflement that you that you spoke of is the changing of the rules no one is ever comfortable with change as much as we may want it and I think the changing public wants more accountability they're holding their public officials to a higher standard and some people have been around that arena for a long time are going wait a minute this isn't this is these aren't the rules I don't understand oh this you're changing the game in midstream and I think and that's what they're not coming to understand
but isn't there a Marcos in San of a a good deal of hypocrisy and cynicism on the part of some of our colleagues in the press and certainly among the politicians they know that they have been in effect on the take in terms of campaign contributions they know that the speakers fund for example that that house speaker Sanchez has is a is a slush fund which gets its contributions from from vested interests they know how the system works and they've they've always applied a double standard haven't they what what they say to the public is one thing what really happens in Santa Fe is something else well yeah I've always noticed when journalists get together to talk and other people who are sort of insiders that the level of conversation and the things that we talk about is much different from what we print or what we broadcast and I think part of that is because we don't want to get sued for saying things that can't necessarily be substantiated etc but I think there is some level of of agreement sort of tacit agreement with the status quo and you know I suppose one could argue that the media
on some level benefits from advertising money that is spent by some of these lobbies as well as by the candidates when they're running for office so I think that it's worth it's worth looking at I think that in this DWI situation this is a story that needs to be covered and has to be covered but it's also a story that generates newspaper sales and ratings and so on so that's a very that's a very tricky issue Pauline is there a culture of complicity in in Santa Fe is there a tendency to to deal with the double standard what's acceptable to the public and the public will go away then we'll do it the way we've always done it there is definitely some of that what happens is most of us go up there with certain issues certain agendas that we're interested in working on I've always worked on the children's issues and the economic development issues the energy issues you know we have certain areas that we we're comfortable with and we want to work on and then there are people
who work as lobbyists in those areas so what happens and it's almost a natural symbiosis you get to know the people who are the advocates in those areas and you begin working together and you begin helping one another and that does happen it it it's a natural kind of a thing and while we can't stop it entirely what we need to say is it has to be regulated to some degree and and when it gets bad is when Ruth referred to it early when money becomes a part of it well but and as George was saying and Ruth also the people are largely absent from this process I mean there Ruth Hoffman from Common Cause or other public interest groups may be up there but that's a tiny minority compared to all the the corporate interests and the and the moneyed interests that are in Santa Fe Roger the decisions are not made in the committees in the open hearings the 85 % of the decisions are not tough it's changing something here and changing something there and it's a little piece here in a look and there's no disagreement so everybody votes I or nay when it gets to the floor the 15 % of the tough issues
are not decided in the open hearings I remember bringing a mammography mandating testing for mammography for breast cancer for the insurance well I had two hours of testimony I had people from all over the state you know how hard it is for a woman to come up and say I have breast cancer you know but they did because it was so important to them well I didn't realize before the hearing but the committee had already met for breakfast with one of the healthcare people groups and made a decision on how they were going to treat this now I objected strongly and I raised plenty of heck about that and I turned it over on the floor of the house but that's very unusual it doesn't happen but it doesn't that require an effect a kind of conspiracy of silence then I mean the committee really then has to conceal that decision from the public the media is not present at that breakfast no usually not told about it even even afterwards yes and the system doesn't work unless there is unless there people willing to go and say that's not right you made a decision before we had a chance to have our hearing
and I went and talked with the leadership and I went on the floor and I turned it around but not many people are willing to do that but but as long as you're in this system where you get your campaign contributions and it costs you anywhere from what now from 10 to $50 ,000 to run for the legislature of New Mexico yes and it's not a paying position not a paying position and so therefore you run into these legitimate arguments well I've got to make a living as an attorney or as a lobbyist or whatever I can't be restricted in conflict of interest aren't you as long as that system is in place always going to be captive to the interests that have the money that have the clout some will be more captive than others depends on what your internal mechanism tells you it depends on you know how how you conduct yourself but then it also depends if you look through the legislative body some of them have no visible means of support if they have no visible means of support then you have to wonder how much influence those lobbyists will have and there are a lot of ways to deal with this but look the ethics legislation the ethics issue is national now look what Clinton has
proposed for his people this is something when I started proposing ethics legislation four years ago our public approval rating as measured by the public policy institute at UNM was about 30 percent and I thought that's terrible I mean I'm part of a group that only 30 percent has any respect for so I started to think of ways we can improve that the ethics was one of those ways it dipped down to 15 percent last year the public approval but as as we were talking earlier that doesn't translate into not electing people because the the incumbency overwhelmingly gets reelected so of course as roots colleagues in Washington would tell you lobbyists and big money still very influential in Washington the Washington of Bill Clinton K street with its with its powers that be will be something he'll have to reckon with let me ask judges and then Marcos yeah that statement you just made everyone believes that the legislature as
a whole is corrupt or for lack of a better word haven't have a bad public perception but they think their particular representative is doing a good job so they always send them back but I'm wondering I was going to ask the two of you there are key elements here there are key moments and we just saw one in this program the the re -election of the speaker of the house the rank and file do it seems to me have an opportunity to to rise up from time to time they could have displaced in the earlier democratic caucuses speaker Sanchez or or or President Eragon what what's the fate of the leadership here we going to see some fallout from this controversy um to the losers perhaps I think so I was shocked I was it was a mixed signal I didn't expect that at all to see the opposition yeah I was that totally floored me I remember the last one we were talking earlier about when the southern democrats or the I can't remember who they were the cowboy coalition when they when they brought in that man from lovington Samson and
uh I remember the excitement that was generating through that and then today when this was going on it just seemed like a battle was starting to brew we already know right the minute the gavel was uh hit that these guys are going to fight and there's going to be the leadership I believe at least for ray uh he needs to watch oh he's going to have to start fighting and and choosing his allies now in the in these committees I'm wondering markos if if both uh President Eragon and the senate and speaker Sanchez may not be casualties of this DWI and ethics controversy it's possible I think I think it points up the uh something we we talked about earlier off the air that that the people in the legislature are really operating from this place of watching your back and trying to do in your enemies and that seems to really get in the way of taking care of business taking care of these important public policy issues there's a lot of pettiness here isn't there I mean we know that there is on in the floor and behind the scenes and I don't I don't really see any any signs that that that's going to let up
it seemed that in in the uh the the election of the the house speaker that uh basically the the republican members voted for uh for the opposition uh for Lynn titler and I don't see any real evidence that that any of the people on the democratic side are getting ready to to get up and oust uh their leadership well with all due respect Pauline to your party the democrats you've got a hammer hold on this state overwhelming majorities in the senate and the house can there be any real reform uh without reform within the democratic party well I think you pose a key question I think there has been resistance on the part of the leadership to moving ahead in terms of legislative reform and ethics reform of a significant sort disclosure seems to be coming and if disclosure is the first bite and then they come back and take some more then perhaps we're on a direct line for reform if this is all they're going to do it's not enough in terms of the DWI I see the two major issues of contention being the closing of the drive
-up windows because the liquor industry will fight that tooth and nail and uh excise taxes now that's those are the issues around which you'll find a great deal of controversy the issues in which they will throw away are the .08 I think that'll pass this time and some of the other things will pass those major issues though I mean if you do DWI reform without providing some money to put into the courts and to put into treatment centers it's not clear it'll be that effective let me ask you Ruth Hoffman and your experience on the governmental ethics task force do legislators generally understand what's on the mind of the public and and does the public understand what the life of the legislator is the the travails of coming to Santa Fe once a year how much communication is there really between these two I think there's very little very little I think I think I would credit most legislators do and have a sense of the public how they respond to that is is a different question but I don't think that
the public really understands the political culture and Santa Fe maybe they don't want to I don't I don't wouldn't want to characterize that but I think that they they care about their government we had you know some legislators during the ethics task force say well we haven't had a big turnout where's the public at all these my response to that is these are complex issues people do care because they don't show up doesn't mean they don't care and they are not to be dismissed they're showing that they don't care by not voting by being cynical by the constant joking and and and the the disdain with which public officials are held that's how they show that they care and I think it's essential to our democracy that we restore that confidence and I agree with the representative isans that that this ethics package is certainly disclosure and if this is all there is they're in for they're sadly mistaken yeah I don't the message that I that we would like to send is for legislators not to think that it's over and that the job has been done you can wipe your hands and we've been pat yourself on the back I think congratulations will be an order if the package
pack passes intact because there's good disclosure in there a little bit of prohibition but we still have a lot of bridges to cross to really restore public confidence and how representative are these people Pauline was saying when we were off the air at one point well Ray Sanchez was reelected with 4000 plus votes and yet as speaker of the house he wheels influence and authority over the entire state over the agenda of this legislature do they do the leaders I mean from Bruce King right on down have a real sense of their responsibility to the to the entire state Marcos what do you see I feel that they don't I feel that there's a a sense among the lawmakers that they have been elected and rather than than really being servants of the people that they have special privilege and I think that it's that that sense of special privilege which allows or enables lawmakers to to go on these trips at the lobbyists expense to
football games or golf trips or whatever I think they have the sense that they are sort of above above the fray above it all and that they are privileged and that they have been specially chosen to enjoy these privileges and to sort of sidebar make public policy the the elect you're just we're in the business of of covering these these people but we're often accused of giving them a bum rap the media is picking on the legislature again the media doesn't understand what sacrifices they make we don't know how hard they work do you think the media doesn't really understand really what goes on in Santa Fe how good a job are we doing I can only speak for our for my station but it's funny that you say that to me I before I came back to Albuquerque I was working in New York and I came back and I was speaking with a member of the legislature that I know and he said to me that it was it's always easy for the for
representatives and senators to pretty much get their way because Albuquerque is a market television or media market where people come and go and so that there is not too many people who know the past histories or anyone who can hold them accountable for anything they've done in the past so I came Albuquerque I went to school here I came Albuquerque where Voila left came back I told them well I'm coming back so don't worry watch out but that is that is the perception that they have it's oh well these guys in the media we're just slatching on they right now they think we're just slatching on to the DWI issue and they're just hoping that another new story will come along and we'll drop DWI and go on to the next story well I heard the speaker of the house on on Channel 7 say last night this was all this controversy over DWI was simply a media circus a media event I even said this to the to the grandmother of those children who were killed on and he was right I mean
Series
1993 New Mexico State of the State Address
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1993 State of the State & Local Follow-Up
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New Mexico PBS (Albuquerque, New Mexico)
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Guest: Scott-Calderon, Georges
Guest: Hoffman, Ruth
Guest: Eisenstadt, Pauline
Guest: Martinez, Marcos
Host: Morris, Roger
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Format: Betacam
Generation: Original
Duration: 01:30:00
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Chicago: “1993 New Mexico State of the State Address; 1993 State of the State & Local Follow-Up,” New Mexico PBS, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed July 12, 2025, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-191-386hdwjc.
MLA: “1993 New Mexico State of the State Address; 1993 State of the State & Local Follow-Up.” New Mexico PBS, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. July 12, 2025. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-191-386hdwjc>.
APA: 1993 New Mexico State of the State Address; 1993 State of the State & Local Follow-Up. Boston, MA: New Mexico PBS, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-191-386hdwjc