1993 New Mexico State of the State Address; State of the State 1993, 41st Legislature, Gov King's address, Roger Morris followup with Pauline Eisenstadt, Gerges Scott, Marcos Martinez (KUNM), Ruth Hoffman (Common Cause)

<unk> uhler says that's it in front of the assembled senate and house the beginning of what promises to be one of the most stormy sessions in new mexico is that history although it's difficult to tell from the us will be analyzing his address now here in the studio and the enemy joining me with a panel of those who wants the legislature close kauffman is executive director of common cause new mexico and a member of the governmental ethics task force marcus martinez is news director anchor of k u m radio the national public radio affiliate in albuquerque at the university of new mexico wayne eizenstat is a businesswoman panel former four term representative from senegal county a veteran of the body we've just witnessed and you're just got the world is executive

producer at kr kiwi the cbs affiliate in albuquerque let me ask you paul lane any surprises in this address this was vintage bruce cain was in a vintage cain accented vintage mccain generality and in its substance well i'm surprised there were no applause up perhaps he was rushing too much you never paused long enough to give that body a chance to applause there were a few spots in there which i think they might have agreed with and i think the ethics of the dwi and his recognition that something has to happen i think the majority of the legislative bodies going understand that to let me quote from the philosopher named schopenhauer he talks about the three stages of truth he says the first stage is ridiculed the second stage is violent opposition and the third stage of truth becomes self evident i think the dwi reform laws myself a bit and i think the ethics legislation although i think we could argue about what's in

there but it is also self evident to me that these are things that need to have the need to happen that the major part of the session is always dealing with the budget so i mean that's clearly going to be a fair amount of arguing about how that pie is divided up and he did include done no surprise that three different tax increases not general taxes on cigarettes and changing they the gas well let's take each one of these so i do remember schopenhauer one point talking about the marriage a porcupine things that were difficult mating process for those who first hearing bruce cain it may be difficult to parse what's really in this address let's take the last first he ended with the with what will be for many new mexicans and most important issues at this session drunk driving reform how much is really in your churches set is his king responding to the public outcry that that we're hearing the governor is a desolate responding to public outcry is the

polls are nothing new though he recommended them i should shoot but i think we're going to see now is that we haven't won one person may be no firm who is on a crusade and she's not a professional obvious issues into battle or go up against his professional lobbyist representing the christian and the public is going to see that in the little obvious are going to be perceived at the watch with a domino's who joined democrats who sided with love a signal over to be perceived as the bad guys in the situation but there's so much emotional outcry over this topic that i think there's a way for couple weeks alumnus of died down an end quote i'm a philosopher from new jersey to say you're sorry my way i think many are gone and serve on rivers and sacha is a minute that he and women's pro that says that say a rather grim prospect for all those people out

there who were so concerned marcus martinez if the governor really dodging this issue he's dodging the tax issue he's not really it doesn't seem to be endorsing the attorney general's reform package he says you should take a close look at it it doesn't say i endorse everything that that strange and when you don't want to do it and how much leadership is their year from the governor on on the issue of state wide urgency i have to say there isn't a whole lot of leadership a lot of what the governor talked about our issues that other people have brought up that events it sort of brought to the front pages into the forefront and i think that the governor has really following the leadership whether it's been put forward by the public or the attorney general and ultimately i think is going to go ahead and let the lawmakers themselves formulate the fill in the details and some of these issues and he'll probably follow i would add that one thing i think is missing from this didn't like package is something that would go to the the yard that that the

bottom line which is that the liquor lobby in santa fe and then the tremendous influence that they seem to have on state lawmakers are now see anything that really addresses that well there's there is of course the ethics legislation which are chocolate you've ever had a rolling in formulating and these tunisians are late art that we were talking about the literal lobby but if you've got a strong ethics package would you address that the influence of lobbies like that yeah to be frankly the ethics package which we fully support is a disclosure package and i think once saudi centers and how much money theyre pouring into state government is really disclose i think it will be even more frightening to some to sign up there and on this issue i think could never separate money in politics lynn that's what happens in all issues and it i certainly think that the liquor lobby is set is out there are very concerned that you can tell because in the newspaper that they're on the defensive the kind of letters they're certainly to raise money to fight these issues where they're coming from their thinking of all kinds of a goal switch as a lobbyist do how to how to approach

an hour we remain that i think one problem we have in the mexico not only do we have money and politics are political circles very small and not only are a lot of the liberal obvious able to to fund campaigns and make large contributions they're also close personal friends a lot of leaders in the state and that as a another dimension that's really hard to get an aisle but even if you get a disclosure don't you still need and public action or in the in lieu of public actions some leadership in the political arena mean to disclose is one thing to really changed the attitude in the actions of a legislature something else i mean i'm a i guess i'm going back to the kind of vacuum here which exists in this in this address he seems to be saying we got serious problems i leave it to you which is that which is not an activist a role for governors i mean i think i think one thing that came out of the ethics taskforce i was really pleasantly surprised at that the task forces so the more you get into the issue of money in politics in its insidious nature and our democracy that

all roads lead to public financing now other politicians locally not able to say well we don't want to ask the public to fund our elections that's not the question the question is who owns the elections and what the public continued to allow special interest to find those elections or will they take that responsibility themselves well you know i just did you you carried that that the ball of with it without your sheer fact that without much in glory i must say for years with a disparate opposition and ethics reform these these issues really are linked arcades that accident we didn't have a tougher standards on the debut on the leadership of the house in the senate among the top or city and some liquor industry money's in the state are only going to see some change for both indeed a b y and an ethics legislation out of this was well let me do the ethics first and i've been introducing our legislation for four years always bipartisan the last session i have over forty four signatures rank and file

not the leadership for an ethics commission you raise the possibility of enforcement that's the key in my mind and the legislation being proposed is a good as far as it goes but its disclosure that's only a piece of what ethics legislation is about to me the major ingredient of ethics legislation is conflict of interest productions i mean when you take a trip a golfing trip or you go to the super bowl or something like that and in the public wonders about it if we had an ethics commission in place then the commission could look at that and say well no we don't think that's appropriate public financing to witness is that in the cards it could've wealthy i think the amount of money having to be raised and you notice in the paper today this same ethics commission committee endorsed not allowing any federal elected official to use money they raised to run a statewide races i don't know how that becomes a part of an ethics legislative package it looks like it might be directed at some of our

present lawmakers rather i think many would say were littered political ploy to understand part two to cuba which regional governors right i don't know necessarily if it's bruce i'm not sure bill would run against bruce i think it may be the ones in the second tier looking when there's an open seat and to prohibit bill from coming back with half a million dollars and running against caroline sound but other states are in wisconsin for example has public financing races in minnesota and other states have done this and and has it made a difference rooted in terms of the power influence of special interests it has made a difference and you have to know that there's a hundred percent solution which we don't necessarily support me to demonstrate the new wee wee baby put ago and cliff small contributions from from their constituents and from people with a stake and that be matched with public funds and in it and then put it a cap on how much any one person and get a pac that sort of thing in aggregate pack clements it's a very complex issue for

public financing in the public have to understand that that's in their best interest and that's how you get special interest money out of politics its public finance let's let's move on marco's to some of the other aspects of this address the governor talked about raising taxes on cigarettes that's going to invite i would guess the wrath of the of the tobacco lobby already very powerful in mexico it sold about raising gas gas natural gas and coal taxes as well which i would guess we'll invite those lines are witnessing a fight on the floor and in what even these relatively modest revenue revenue enhancements that governor kaine has proposed i think there's a good chance that it you know there really hasn't been in my view any real fundamental change in the attitudes that the dominate at the legislature and i think that that one could expect that there would be those fights and that it would be a very difficult to get these these taxes that the

governor has brought up enacted i think in in some instances and the most notable one again his dwi where you have this tremendous public outcry perhaps there's a chance that that you could get some momentum built up behind that but in terms of some of these other issues including perhaps are things like healthcare there may not be via the momentum there to really get past the there were the tremendous resistance that will no doubt the answer well that's where the most powerful lobbies in santa fe nm the governor alluded to what he called the hungry bayer medicaid breaking into the pantry here and yet he takes no real position on the health care reform on representative calls bill the canadian single payer system which will be on the floor it just says you'll be considering a number of pieces of legislation and i do what a point out that we got a foundation grant here to study our future that message is clear on the message of areas you can talk about it but i'm probably not going to pass it i mean if it comes to his desk i think what he was saying as

i would read it having worked with governor kaine for over many many years is that let this commission do its work let's talk about its complicated let's not pass anything they're not not this year not george's obviously i added the media is very very much on the case in santa fe art they i mean your station has been covering the speed o b y controversy others were to be doing and in collaboration with dr q we're taking enemy a special on ethics reform in new mexico aren't is this having an impact on the current are they getting it in chief of understanding how much public frustration yes we are now governor in from this address i think the governor standard that front we had a mighty rio de talking with this is not for the legislative someone seem to understand the ones in leadership i love to get it would lead is any elitism bulk of the city's newspapers have been blasting balls potatoes bigger house

well you've got some real quick and under an ethics is that nothing will get done unless this ethics reform bill or something strong gets pressed for instance i don't i don't think but the tobacco lobbyist cigna sit still or other summer i think will be a compromise on as far as a natural gas to the people to repay that tax anyway on an interstate sales of a battle where a long legacy of the ballot about legacy a big belt the dwi issue not and i think that because of that the state will software once office because of these two issues because a lobbyist a select few people again to persuade or sway of all i would break through that cycle what we know now what i think i think for coverage of our side here we do use some kind of force the commission we do need some kind of conflict of interest laws

along those lines and another example is down south and some parts that were isolated el paso has america wastes a murdered emmett now and the people who live in that area we were getting sick from them but does this then they are burned up a dress susan and reveals lots of people are getting sick then went to complain to their representative is a state senator he listened to what they had to say he calls a hearing for them when they also look at the hearing he was then sitting on the panel with the local boys company because he happens to be an attorney to represent then get to get their license with environmental protection is actually was this is how i don't think people really understand how poor ethics says out affects everybody down allied with the legislators understand it they get it because you know i often it seems to me we're often confronted with this kind of moral battle went on the parts of these people i saw many are gone the president of the senate and ray sanchez the speaker of the house the other day on television looking

confused almost be filed at the at the public outrage over detainee what i think that they've been their reaction is honest in general because we've had accidents like this before i will need to downplay tx and on christmas eve but just last year we had a woman in broad daylight drive chemistry dropped and run through a front yard and an ongoing question it's a lot those same instance people forget updated took this incident on christmas eve because the timing because legislators come close because of the holidays and make people really think the outraged by this but the law that legislators many in and they are hoping it puts him in sixty day session in polygamous are forgetting or just these dwi reform bills of them get water down any other towns we can tackle this about public un and the apathy of the voters but i think this time on a mistaken because of what we

seen in november with pearl and that people really generally concerned an outrage and just find that routinely going round status of his task force people really are i attended most of what we give me around the state and there were people people are fed up and they have people can we can call them to go but people have lives and i think they treat we want to trust their public officials to do the right thing and not to have to be looking over their shoulders all the time you're telling representative democracy i think part of a baffle men that you spoke of is the changing of the rules and no one has ever comfortable with change as much as we want it and i think the changing the public wants more accountability and holding their public officials to a higher standard and some people get around the arena for a long time are going when a minute this isn't this and these are the rules and understand this you're changing the game in that strain and i think and that's what they're not coming to understand but isn't there a marco says in santa fe a good deal of

hypocrisy in cynicism on the part of some of our colleagues in the press and certainly among the politicians and they know that they have been in effect on the take in terms of campaign contributions they know that the speaker's fun for example with their houses speaker sanchez has music it's a slush fund which gets its contributions from from vested interests they know how the system works and they've they've always apply to double standard haven't done with what they said to the public is one thing what really happens in santa fe something else oh yeah i've always noticed a wig when journalists get together to talk about and other people who were sort of insiders that the level of conversation in the things that we talk about is much different from what we print or what we broadcast and i think where that is because we don't want to get sued their savings account necessarily be substantiated etc but i think there is some level of love kind of agreements are sort of tacit agreement with the status quo and i you know i suppose one could argue that the media on some level benefits from advertising money that is spent

by some of these lobby says was by the candidates when they're running for office so i think that it's worth it's worth looking at but i think that in his dwi situation this is a story that needs to be covered and has to be covered but it's also a story that generates a new newspaper salesman and raisins on so that that's a very odd tradition while he was there a culture of complicity in santa fe is there is there a tendency to two to deal with a double standard what what's acceptable to the public and the public will go away and we'll we'll do it the way we've always done it there is definitely some of that what happens is you most of us go up there with certain issues certain agendas that were interested in working on i've always worked on children's issues in any other economic development issues the energy issues you know we have certain areas that week we're comfortable with only one oregon and then there are people who were worked as lobbyists nose hair so what happens is almost a natural

cindy oh says you get to know the people who are the advocates in those areas and you begin working together and you begin helping one another and that does happen it is that it's a natural kind of a thing and while we can't stop it entirely what we need to say is it asked to be regulated to some degree and then when it gets bad as when ruth refer to it early when money becomes a part of it well is georgia saying and ruth also the people are largely absent from the process i mean they're a rooftop and from common cause or the public interest groups maybe up there but that's a tiny minority compared to wall with the corporate interests and in the moneyed interests that are in some of the major decisions are not made in the committees in the open hearings that eighty five percent of the decisions are not tough exchanging something here and changing something there that's a little piece here a lot and there's no disagreement so everybody vote iron a when he gets a for the fifteen percent of the tough issues are not decided in the open hearings i remember bringing

mammography mandating testing for mammography for breast cancer before the insurance well i am two hours of testimony i had people from all over the state you know how hard it is for a woman to come up and say i have breast cancer you know but they did because it was so important to them well and i didn't realize before the hearing but the committee had already met for breakfast with one of the health care people groups and made a decision on how they were going to treat this now i objected strongly and i raised plenty of hype about that and i turned it over on the floor the house but as a very unusual it doesn't happen but it doesn't that require in effect a kind of conspiracy of silence then i mean the committee really that hastert concealed that decision from the public the meeting is not present at breakfast know usually not told about it even even afterwards and the system doesn't work unless there is a lesser people willing to go and say that's not right you made a decision before we had a chance to have our hearing and i went and talked with the leadership and i went on the floor and i turned around but

not many people are willing to do that but but as long as you're in a system where you get your campaign contributions and asked you anywhere from what now from ten to fifty thousand dollars for the legislature mexican yes and it's not paying position not i wonder are and so therefore you run into these legitimate arguments want to make a living as an attorney or as a lobbyist or whatever i can't be restricted in conflict of interest are chewed as long as that system is in place always had a captive to the interests that have the money they have the clout so will be more captains and others depends on what your internal mechanism tells you it depends on you know how how you conduct yourself but then it also depends if you look through the legislative body some of them have no visible means of support then if they had no visible means of support then you have to wonder how much influence those lobbyists will have an airline ways to deal with this that look the ethics legislation the ethics issue is national now look what clinton has proposed for his people this is something when i started proposing ethics

legislation four years ago our public approval rating as measured by the public policy institute at you and him was about thirty percent and i thought that's terrible i mean i'm part of a group that only thirty percent as any respect for so i started to think of ways we can improve that the ethics was one of those ways it get down a fifteen percent last year the public approval but as as we were talking earlier that doesn't translate into not electing people because the the incumbency overwhelmingly gets reelected sources is roots or colleagues and washing would tell you a lobbyist and big money still very influential in washington the washington k street with its with its powers that be you know will be something he'll have to reckon with what we asked georgia's and then marco yup that's a huge fight everyone believes that the legislature as a whole is corrupt or willful like about awards have

ever bad public perception that they think their particular representative is doing a good job in his illinois senate as the two of you are there are key elements here they're key moments and we just saw one in this programme of the of the re election of the speaker of the house the rank and file do it seems to me have an opportunity to rise up from time to time they could have displaced in the earlier democratic caucuses speaker sanchez or or or president aaron what what's the fate of the leadership here we're going to see ups and fallout from this controversy i'm too loses perhaps i think so i was shocked those that was a mixed signal it an expert there are sunni opposition yeah just i was those are totally forget i remember the last were talking earlier about when the southern democrats only i can learn to bullish outlook and eight when i brought an eventful moment in samson

and i remember the excitement there was generally true that an incident when <unk> the scene like the local battle started a brewery you know we're limited to gavel was a hit that is theres a unified in is indeed the leadership i believe only for a he's a watch though is that stuff it in and choosing his allies now in the instruments of marcus if you're both president paragon the senate and speakers and shares may not be casualties of this deed of you why an ethics controversy it's possible i think that i think it points up the us something what we talked about earlier off the air that that the people in the legislature are really operating from this place of watching your back in time to join your enemies and that seems to really get in the way of taking care of business taking care of these important public policy issues a lot of pitching a series and jeremy we know there is on foreign policy and i don't i don't really see any any signs that that that's going to let up

it seemed that in non indian be the election of the the house speaker that they're basically be the republican members voted for for the opposition from and tighter and i don't see any real evidence that that any of the people on the democratic side are getting ready to to get up and oust their leadership well with all due respect all your party the democrats you've got a hammer a hold on this state overwhelming majorities in the senate and the house can there be any real reform without reform within the democratic party well i think you pose a key question i think there has been resistance on the part of the leadership to moving ahead in terms of legislative reform ethics reform other significance or disclosure seems to be coming and if disclosures the first bite and then they come back and take some more then perhaps were on a direct line for it for if this is all they're going to do is not enough in terms of

her dwi i see the two major issues of contention being the closing of the drive up windows because the liquor industry will fight that tooth enamel and excise taxes now that's those are the issues around which you find a great deal of controversy the issues in which they will throw away our other point no way i think i'll pass this time it's only other things a path those major issues now i mean if you do dwi reform without providing some money to put into the courts and put into treatment centers it's not clear to be that affected we ask you recall when your experience were on the governmental ethics taskforce do legislators generally understand what's on the mind of the public and and does the public understand what the life of a legislator is that the treadmills of coming the santa fe once a year much communication is there really between these two i think there's very little very little i think i think i would credit most of listeners too and have a

sense of the public how they respond to that is is a different question and i don't think the public really understands the political culture in santa fe maybe they don't want to have one what i characterize that but i think they do that they care about their government that we had been a some legislators jury ethics task force say well we have had a big turnout worse the public level of these cars causes these are complex issues people do care because they don't show up doesn't mean they don't care and they're not to be dismissed their persona they don't care by not voting and being cynical but icann's to joking and the disdain with which public officials are now that's out a show that they care and i think it's essential to our democracy that restore the confidence and i agree with the reason eisenstadt that turned this ethics package is serving disclosure and if this is all or a is there in further there sadly mistaken you know i don't i don't got the message about that we would like to send his listeners not to think that it's over and that the job has been done you can wipe your hands

in and we've been pat yourself on the back at the congratulations will be in order if the package pack passes intact because it's good disclosure in there a little bit of prohibition but we still have a lot of bridges to cross to really restore public confidence how representative are these people calling saying you know and we were off the air at one point well ray sanchez was reelected with four thousand plus votes and yet as speaker of the house he wields influence and authority over the entire state on the agenda of this legislature what do they do the leaders i mean from risking right on down have a real sense of their responsibility to that to the entire state marcos what when you see it i feel that they don't i feel that there is a sense among lawmakers that they have been elected ends rather than been really being servants of the people that they have special privilege and i think that it's that that census precious special privilege which allows air or enables lawmakers to go on these

trips at that at the at the lobbyist expands to football games or golf trips or whatever i think they have a sense that there is sort of a both above the fray above it all and that they're privileged and that they had been specially chosen to get to enjoy these privileges and two a sidebar make public possibly the elected judges we're in the business of of covering these these people but were often accused of giving them up bum rap to me is picking on the legislature again the media doesn't understand what sacrifices they make we don't know how hard they work do you think the media doesn't really understand really what goes on in santa fe outcome for the job are we doing it was different from our station it's fundraiser tonight before i came back so for those working in new york and i came back and i was speaking with a member of the legislature are now and he said to me that it was it's always easy first for

prisoners and senators to pretty much get their way because our turkey is a market the television and media market where people come and go and so that there's actually people who know that as history's already won three call them accountable for anything they've done in the past so i came out her time would screw it came out thirty words while laugh came back and i told him well on comebacks of water that is that is the perception that they have and it's all these guys and they would just let you know that right now i think with dyslexia into the dwi issue and it is hoping that another new story will come along and will drop he'd only widened go on to the next speaker of the house on now on channel seven say last night said this was the oldest controversy over data be why was simply a media circus a media event even said this today to the grandmother of those children were killed on christmas eve and he is right here it's been