New Mexico in Focus; 302; ABQ Mayoral Race: Richard Romero

SRT Captions File Generated by MXFplus >> THIS IS THE WEEKEND WE MAY GET A SOLID ANSWER ON MAYOR MARTIN CHAVEZ' FUTURE PLANS. >> AHEAD THIS WEEK ON "IN

FOCUS," THE LATEST ON THE ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR'S RACE INCLUDING A ONE-ON-ONE INTERVIEW WITH ONE OF THE TWO DECLARED CANDIDATES IN THE RACE, RICHARD ROMERO. >> ALL THIS PLUS A BIG ANNOUNCEMENT FROM FORMER CONGRESSMAN STEVEN PEARCE, DEBATE AND DISCUSSION ABOUT OUR NATION'S CELEBRITY OBSESSIONS AND CRUNCH THE NUMBERS ON NEW MEXICO'S FASTEST GROWING CITY, ON A SHOW THAT IS INFORMED, INVOLVED AND IN DEPTH, NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS. >> FORMER CONGRESSMAN STEVEN PEARCE WANTS HIS OLD JOB BACK. HE ANNOUNCED PLANS THIS WEEK TO RUN AGAINST INCUMBENT, HARRY TEAGUE, IN THE SECOND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. TEAGUE, OF COURSE, WON THE SEAT LAST NOVEMBER, AFTER PEARCE DECIDED TO RUN FOR THE U.S. SENATE INSTEAD OF REELECTION TO THE SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO SEAT. AHEAD THIS WEEK, "THE LINE" PANELISTS HANDICAP THAT CD-2 RACE AND TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF PEARCE'S DECISION ON THE REST OF THE STATE'S POLITICAL LANDSCAPE. >> PLUS, ARE WE TOO CAUGHT UP IN THE CULT OF PERSONALITY? WHAT THE MICHAEL JACKSON DEATH

AND AFTERMATH AND MANNY RAMIREZ'STAR STUDDED STINT HERE IN THE DUKE CITY TELL US ABOUT SOCIETY AND HOW WE IDENTIFY OUR HEROS. >> FIRST TURNING UP THE HEAT ON ALBUQUERQUE'S UPCOMING MAYORAL ELECTION. INCUMBENT MAYOR MARTIN CHAVEZ HAS BEEN QUIET ABOUT HIS PLANS SO FAR BUT ALL SIGNS POINT TO AN APPARENT ANNOUNCEMENT THIS WEEKEND. RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE TWO DECLARED CANDIDATES, SENATE LEADER -- I SHOULD SAY FORMER SENATE LEADER RICHARD ROMERO AND TWO-TERM STATE REP RJ BERRY. IN THE COMING WEEKS WE INVITED ALL THE CANDIDATES TO TALK ABOUT THEIR CAMPAIGN PLATFORMS. UP THIS WEEK, RICHARD ROMERO. >> THIS RACE STARTED OUT WITH A CROWDED FIELD OF CANDIDATES WHICH INCLUDED DEBBIE O'MALLEY AND COUNCILOR MICHAEL CADIGAN BUT O'MALLEY AND CADIGAN DROPPED OUT AFTER FAILING TO SECURE ENOUGH SIGNATURES AND $5 DONATIONS TO QUALIFY FOR PUBLIC FINANCING AND FOR THE BALLOT, BUT FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT PRO TEM, RICHARD ROMERO, HAD NO SUCH PROBLEMS AND HERE TO TALK WITH US. HE'S GEARING UP FOR A HUGE CAMPAIGN, ONE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT INCLUDE THREE-TERM INCUMBENT, MAYOR MARTIN

CHAVEZ, BUT RICHARD, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE. >> WELL, VERY FIRST BASIC QUESTION. YOU'RE NO STRANGER TO POLITICS. AS I SAID, YOU SERVED IN THE NEW MEXICO STATE SENATE, I THINK, 12 YEARS. WHY ARE YOU RUNNING THIS YEAR AND WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU BRING TO THIS RACE THAT ANOTHER CANDIDATE DOESN'T? >> GREAT QUESTION AND ONE I AM ASKED CONSTANTLY. I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED NEW LEADERSHIP IN THIS CITY, I REALLY DO. >> WE NEED A LEADER THAT CAN WORK WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND OTHER ENTITIES, OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, OTHER FORMS OF GOVERNMENT, TO ADDRESS WHAT I THINK ARE REALLY CRITICAL ISSUES FACING THE CITY. ONE, PUBLIC SAFETY, OF COURSE, IS AT THE VERY TOP. WORKING WITH OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO MAKE THEM A WORLD CLASS INSTITUTION RATHER THAN KICKING THEM IN THE GUT EVERY TIME WE TURN AROUND. I BELIEVE THAT JOB CREATION THROUGH SMALL BUSINESSES IS A KEY TO SUCCESS TO THE ECONOMIC SUCCESS OF THIS COMMUNITY AND

I ALSO BELIEVE, MAYBE MY SIGNATURE ISSUE IS WE NEED TO RID GOVERNMENT OF WASTEFUL SPENDING, CRONYISM HAS REALLY BEEN RUNNING RAMPANT IN THIS ADMINISTRATION. >> ON THAT POINT, ARE THERE ANY EXAMPLES OF WASTEFUL SPENDING OR CRONYISM THAT YOU WOULD POINT TO THAT IF YOU WERE MAYOR YOU WOULD GET RID OF? >> ABSOLUTELY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE CITY, THEY HAVE BEEN AT WAR NOW FOR YEARS NOW AND THE ONLY COMMON DENOMINATOR IS THE MAYOR. THE COUNCIL HAS CHANGED BUT WE STILL HAVE A CONFLICT THERE AND I KNOW THE MAYOR HAS TALKED ABOUT THE CONTENTION, NATURAL TENSION BETWEEN THE BODIES, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THERE. YOU HAVE TWO PLANNING DEPARTMENTS, I'LL GIVE YOU THAT EXAMPLE. YOU HAVE PLANNERS ON THE COUNCIL SIDE AND ON THE CITY SIDE; THE MAYOR. YOU DON'T NEED THEM BUT WHY DOES THE COUNCIL HAVE A PLANNING COUNCIL, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET GOOD ANSWERS, HONEST ANSWERS FROM THE MAYOR. IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP LEVEL, THE AT-WILL EMPLOYEES, YOU

HAVE GOT, I BELIEVE, EIGHT DEPUTIES, YOU KNOW, DEPARTMENT DEPUTIES. YOU HAVE GOT A SECURITY PERSON ABOVE THE FIRE CHIEF, I MEAN THAT WAS UNHEARD OF. >> PUBLIC SAFETY. >> A PUBLIC SAFETY PERSON. YOU LOOK AT SOLID WASTE, YOU HAVE THREE DEPUTIES PEOPLE THAT WERE JUST PLACED THERE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAYOR, HE WALKS AROUND WITH THREE BODY GUARDS WALKING INTO THE ARTICHOKE CAFE, I MEAN, THAT IS WASTEFUL SPENDING. YOU LOOK AT THE MAYOR OF TUCSON, EL PASO, THOSE ARE BORDER TOWNS. THEY DO NOT HAVE BODY GUARDS WALKING AROUND. I WALK DOWNTOWN. I LIVE DOWNTOWN. I DON'T NEED SOMEONE WATCHING ME OR DRIVING ME AROUND. >> YOU MENTIONED THE BUDGET AND SPENDING ISSUES. NOT TOO LONG AGO, YOU CAME OUT STRONGLY AND SAID THAT YOU THOUGHT THE MAYOR WAS WRONG TO SHIFT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM FUTURE CAPITAL PROJECTS TO THE OPERATING BUDGET. >> RIGHT. >> THE ALTERNATIVE, IT SEEMED TO ME, AND I THINK MANY OTHERS WOULD BE MAJOR LAYOFFS, CUTS IN SERVICE. I SEE THE POINT THAT YOU

DIDN'T LIKE THE IDEA OF NOT PAYING FOR FUTURE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS BUT WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN OKAY WITH HUNDREDS OF LAYOFFS, MASSIVE OR SEVERE SIGNIFICANT CUTS IN SERVICES THE CITY PROVIDES IF THE MAYOR HADN'T DONE THAT? >> WELL, I REALLY BELIEVE THERE IS WASTEFUL SPENDING THERE AND WE COULD HAVE RECOUPED, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THAT MONEY. UNTIL I AM IN I REALLY COULDN'T TELL YOU, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT EIGHT YEARS AGO WHEN THE MAYOR FIRST WENT IN, HE WAS PROPOSING LAYOFFS, REMEMBER? BECAUSE HE WAS AT THE STARTING END OF HIS TERM. NOW THAT HE IS AT THE OPPOSITE END OF HIS SECOND TERM, ALL OF A SUDDEN, GOING INTO ELECTION, HE BASICALLY IS BUYING SUPPORT BY NOT LOOKING AT A BUDGET CRITICALLY. HE HAS A LOT OF ADMINISTRATIVE OVERHEAD THERE. I MEAN, AT-WILL EMPLOYEES USED TO BE ABOUT 34 WHEN JIM BACA WAS THERE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE AT-WILL EMPLOYEES NOW, THERE IS WELL OVER 100. AND, YOU KNOW, THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO BE A PART OF THE CIVIL

SERVICE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE FOR THEIR PROTECTION. THEY CANNOT BE AT WILL AND BE BEHOLDING POLITICALLY TO THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE AND THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE, BUT, YOU EITHER LOOK AT THE BUDGET HONESTLY AND YOU NEED TO BE VERY PRUDENT AND FRUGAL AND IT IS NOT JUST GOING IN NOW BUT YOU NEED TO PLAN AHEAD AND THE MAYOR HAS A RECORD, A HISTORY, OF JUST OVERSPENDING. THAT IS WHERE I AM COMING FROM. >> BUT, UNDER YOUR LEADERSHIP, YOU WOULD POTENTIALLY HAVE LAYOFFS, IF THE MATH DIDN'T ADD UP? >> YOU KNOW, I MEAN YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITHIN YOUR BUDGET AND YOU CANNOT BE USING THOSE CAPITAL DOLLARS TO SUBSIDIZE THE BUDGET BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU. THOSE CAPITAL DOLLARS ARE VERY ADDICTIVE AND NOT GOING TO COME OUT OF THE BUDGET. DOWN THE ROAD, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE MONEY TO BE ABLE TO FIX YOUR STREETS, TO REPAIR YOUR BUILDINGS, YOUR LIBRARIES, YOUR COMMUNITY CENTERS, SENIOR CENTERS, SO YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL.

IT IS GOING TO TAKE LONG-TERM PLANNING. >> A SECOND AGO YOU MENTIONED EDUCATION. OF COURSE YOU HAVE A BACKGROUND IN EDUCATION. BEFORE WE STARTED YOU WERE REMINISCING ABOUT YOUR DAYS AS PRINCIPAL AT ALBUQUERQUE HIGH. WHAT SPECIFICALLY -- YOU SAID A SECOND AGO, YOU WANT TO SEE A WORLD CLASS EDUCATION SYSTEM. CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT. WHAT SPECIFICALLY CAN THE MAYOR DO THAT ISN'T DONE RIGHT NOW. >> ONE THING, NOT FIGHT WITH THE SCHOOLS OR WANTING TO TAKE THEM OVER. THAT IS FUTILE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT. I PROBABLY AGREE WITH THE MAYOR THAT THE ELECTED BOARD OF GOVERNANCE IS PROBABLY A DINOSAUR BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET RID OF IT, YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH THEM. HE HAS NOT DEMONSTRATED AN ABILITY TO WORK WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD, SUPERINTENDENT OR ANYBODY. YOU CAN'T HELP THEM BY KICKING THEM AROUND. MY BELIEF IS THAT THE CITY DOES PROVIDE MONEY FOR THE SCHOOLS, LIKE, THE MIDDLE SCHOOL INITIATIVES, THEY DO PROVIDE MONEY FOR THE PRE-KINDERGARTEN AND THE EARLY

HEADSTART PROGRAMS THAT ARE, BY THE WAY, MODELS. I AM SURE THAT IF WE WORK WITH THE SCHOOLS ON THE ISSUE OF DROPOUTS AND TRUANCY, WE CAN DO A MUCH BETTER JOB. YOU KNOW, I WAS A TRUANT OFFICER AT ONE TIME, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, IN MY EARLY YEARS AND I FIND THAT WORKING WITH THE FAMILIES CAN BE VERY BENEFICIAL IN GETTING KIDS TO ATTEND SCHOOL ON A REGULAR BASIS. THE CITY CAN AND SHOULD HAVE A CONCERN FOR THE WORKFORCE OF THE CITY AND DO WHATEVER IT TAKES. THERE ARE IDEAS OUT THERE, IF YOU WORK WITH THEM. BUT, I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT BEATING THEM EVERYDAY LIKE THE MAYOR WAS A FEW YEARS AGO, IS NOT PRODUCTIVE. >> YOU SAID THAT STATEMENT EARLIER IN THE WEEK, SAYING THAT WE NEED TERM LIMITS FOR THE MAYOR OF ALBUQUERQUE. RICHARD, YOU, OF COURSE, WERE IN THE LEGISLATURE. I THINK YOU WERE IN A POSITION TO INTRODUCE LEGISLATION THAT WOULD HAVE REINSTATED TERM LIMITS. YOU DIDN'T DO THAT. WHY DID YOU NOT DO IT THEN BUT ARE RECALLING FOR TERM LIMITS NOW? >> VERY HONESTLY, THE TERM LIMITS THAT WE HAD ON THE MAYOR WERE JUST OVERTURNED

ABOUT A YEAR AGO. I MEAN, THE MAYOR ACTUALLY TOOK THE INITIATIVE TO GO TO COURT AND DID THAT. >> THEY WERE QUESTIONABLE IN TERMS OF CONSTITUTION FOR A LONG TIME, THOUGH. >> CORRECT AND THEY WERE NOT NECESSARILY ON MY RADAR. I THOUGHT WE HAD THEM AND WE ACTUALLY PASSED THEM IN 1974 WITH THE CHARTER, THAT NEW CHARTER AT THAT TIME, AND WE ACTUALLY HAD A NEW FORM OF GOVERNMENT, A MAYORAL FORM OF GOVERNMENT. I BELIEVE THAT CHIEF EXECUTIVES NEED TO BE TERM LIMITED BECAUSE OF THE ABUSE THAT CAN OCCUR, THE CONTROL, JUST THE MACHINE POLITICS THAT COMES AS A RESULT. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE IT AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND STATE LEVEL AND WE NEED IT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. I IMPOSED A TERM LIMIT ON MY POSITION AS SENATE PRESIDENT PRO TEM AS A MODEL AT THAT TIME THAT IT WAS REALLY WRONG FOR A LEADER TO USE THE POSITION TO JUST KEEP HIM OR HERSELF IN OFFICE. THAT IS WRONG. NOW, I DON'T BELIEVE IN TERM LIMITS FOR LEGISLATORS. I REALLY DON'T, BECAUSE,

FRANKLY, THE ONLY CONTROL WE HAVE IN GOVERNMENT OR COUNTER TO THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND TOP LEVEL BUREAUCRATS IN GOVERNMENT ARE LEGISLATORS. SO I THINK THAT BALANCE IS HEALTHY. >> ON CRIME, ACCORDING TO RECENT FBI STATISTICS, ALBUQUERQUE RANKS IN THE TOP 27 PERCENTILE NATIONALLY IN VIOLENT CRIME AND 11% IN AUTO THEFT. I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN A CRITIC ON THE MAYOR'S RECORD ON CRIME. DO YOU THINK, AND IF SO, WHY DO YOU THINK HE IS TO BLAME FOTHAT? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, CRIME TO ME IS AN INDICATOR OF THE HEALTH OF A COMMUNITY. IT IS NOT A MEASUREMENT OF POLICE DEFICIENCY OR PERFORMANCE, BUT IT IS AN INDICATOR OF A COMMUNITY'S HEALTH. AND VERY HONESTLY, YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR HAS PUSHED FOR ADDITIONAL PATROLMAN ON THE STREETS BUT THEY REALLY DON'T GET DOWN TO THE STREET. THEY ARE BEHIND A DESK SOMEWHERE. YOU KNOW, EIGHT YEARS AGO WE HAD 900 POLICEMEN AND WOMEN. AND, WE HAD OVER HALF OF THEM

ON THE STREET. WE NOW HAVE 1100 AND ABOUT 42% OF THEM ARE ON THE STREET. ALSO, SOMETHING THAT IS SIGNIFICANT IS THAT EIGHT YEARS AGO OUR BUDGET FOR PUBLIC SAFETY WAS 1/3 OF THE TOTAL BUDGET AND IT IS NOW OVER HALF AND THE MAYOR IS PROPOSING DURING AN ELECTION YEAR, RIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION, MORE CONCERN ABOUT POLITICS THAN HE IS ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY TO ADD ADDITIONAL 100 POLICE. >> ARE YOU AGAINST THAT PROPOSAL? >> I AM AGAINST USING IT FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES. MY THOUGHT IS, WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM? NOW, HE REALLY HAS NOT DISCUSSED THAT OTHER THAN HE HAS 25% OF THE MONEY FOR THAT PROGRAM TO COME FROM THE FEDS BUT HE REALLY -- >> THE REST OF THE MONEY HAS NOT BEEN SPELLED OUT. >> AND HE DOESN'T HAVE THE BUDGET FOR IT UNLESS HE DIPS INTO THE CAPITAL DOLLARS OR MAYBE PROPOSE SOME LAYOFFS. >> UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO END IT THERE. THE TIME FLIES BY REAL QUICK. I HOPE WE CAN HAVE YOU BACK. BEST OF LUCK IN THE REST OF THE CAMPAIGN. >> THANK YOU. >> REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE, OSTENSIBLY, NONPARTISAN RACE,

RJ BERRY IS SET TO SIT DOWN WITH US FOR NEXT WEEK'S SHOW AND WE HAVE INVITED MAYOR MARTIN CHAVEZ TO DO AN INTERVIEW BUT HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HIS OFFICE AS OF YET. >> UP NEXT, HANDICAPPING THE MAYORAL RACE FROM THE OUTSIDE. >> HESS YNETMA IS A FORMER CITY COUNCILOR AND ACROSS THE TABLE, DAN MCKAY, COVERS CITY HALL FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL. THANKS FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU. >> MAYBE FIRST QUESTION, DAN, ACTUALLY THE SAME QUESTION FOR BOTH YOU, ABOUT 90 DAYS, THREE MONTHS OUT FROM THE OCTOBER CITY ELECTION DAY, WHERE DO YOU THINK THE MAYOR'S RACE STANDS TODAY? >> I THINK IT HAS BEEN PRETTY QUIET SO FAR. I DON'T THINK -- THERE HAVEN'T BEEN A LOT OF STORIES IN THE NEWS ABOUT THE CHALLENGERS OR HOW THE CITY COUNCIL RACES ARE SHAPING UP YET. WHICH PROBABLY PLAYS TO CHAVEZ' ADVANTAGE AND I THINK HE HAS MADE AN ATTEMPT TO CAST HIMSELF AS THE MAYOR RATHER THAN SPECIFICALLY AS A CANDIDATE BY DELAYING HIS

ANNOUNCEMENT FOR REELECTION AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT, MOST OBSERVERS THAT I TALK TO SEEM TO THINK THAT IT IS HIS RACE TO LOSE MORE OR LESS, THAT HE HAS HAD A TRACK RECORD OF WINNING MAYORAL CAMPAIGNS EVERY TIME HE HAS RUN AND IN A SORT OF COMPRESSED CAMPAIGN PERIOD, WITH ONLY 90 MORE DAYS TO GO, YOU KNOW, THE BURDEN IS ON THE CHALLENGERS TO GET THEIR NAME OUT THERE AND BE AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH TO TURN THINGS THEIR WAY. HE HAS HAD SO MUCH SUCCESS IN THE PAST, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE VIEW HIM AS THE FAVORITE AT THIS POINT. >> HESS YNTEMA, IS MAYOR CHAVEZ THE FAVORITE? >> YES, I AGREE WITH DAN'S ANALYSIS BUT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE THERE IS ALSO A POSSIBILITY THAT IT COULD BECOME VERY INTERESTING BASED UPON THE CONFIGURATION OF THE RACE WITH THE THREE CANDIDATES NOW SITUATED. I WOULD ALMOST DESCRIBE IT AS

A SANDWICH SITUATION RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE BOTH SENATOR ROMERO, ON THE ONE HAND, AND REPRESENTATIVE BERRY, CAN PRESENT A VERY STRONG APPEAL TO CONSTITUENCIES IN THE CITY. SENATOR ROMERO APPEALING TO CITY EMPLOYEES WHO TEND TO BE A VERY ACTIVE GROUP, ACTIVE FORCE IN THIS TYPE OF AN ELECTION. AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU MIGHT CALL IT THE REPUBLICAN BASE OR THE FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, NOT THAT THEY ARE ALL REPUBLICANS, BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN VOTING ON THOSE LINES. IN EACH OF THOSE SIDES, TO MY EYE, REPRESENTATIVE BERRY WITH THE, YOU MIGHT CALL IT, FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, AND SENATOR ROMERO WITH THE CITY EMPLOYEES, THEY ARE SUCH ATTRACTIVE CANDIDATES OR CAN BE, THEY CAN MAKE SIGNIFICANT INROADS AND THAT IS WHY I CALL IT A SANDWICH. IF THOSE ARE THE TWO POLAR CONSTITUENCIES, GROSSLY SIMPLIFYING, FOR CITY ELECTIONS, AND THE SITUATION COULD BE BECOME A WHIPSAW,

TOO. BECAUSE, MAYOR CHAVEZ HAS TRIED TO APPEAL TO BOTH. >> ON THOSE POINTS IT SEEMS LIKE ON LABOR, AFSCME, THERE IS SOME CONTROVERSY, BUT AFSCME FORMALLY ENDORSED MAYOR CHAVEZ. AND ON THE FISCAL CONSERVATIVE SIDE, MAYOR CHAVEZ HAS BEEN PRO DEVELOPMENT AND MANY OF HIS ATTRACTORS THINK THAT HE IS TOO PRO DEVELOPMENT. OR EVEN ON SPENDING QUESTIONS, THAT IS WHAT YOU MEANT BY FISCAL CONSERVATISM, HE SEEMS LIKE HE CARVED A NICHE FOR HIM ON BOTH OF THOSE CONSTITUENCIES AS WELL. >> LOOKING AT VOTERS PARTICIPATING MAINLY BECAUSE OF THEIR INTEREST, I THINK A LOT OF THE DEBATE, A LOT OF THE WORK IS GOING TO GO ON UNDERGROUND. BY THAT I MEAN, EACH CANDIDATE, EACH OF THE TWO CHALLENGERS ON EACH SIDE, IF YOU WILL, OF MAYOR CHAVEZ, HAVE TO GO AROUND AND IDENTIFY THE VOTERS AND GET THEM TO THE POLLS SO THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF WORK, I THINK, THAT DOESN'T GO ON ON THE TELEVISION SCREEN. THE TELEVISION SCREEN WORK WILL BE POSTURING, TO A

CERTAIN EXTENT. >> TV ADS AT THE END OF THE RACE. >> AND HOW THEY SPEND THEIR MONEY IS CRITICAL. EACH CANDIDATE HAS MORE THAN $300,000 IN PUBLIC MONEY. OF COURSE, THE MAYOR HAS BIG ADVANTAGES WITH BEING THE INCUMBENT AND HIS ACCESS TO THE TELEVISION. BUT, THERE IS PLENTY OF MONEY FOR THE CHALLENGERS TO REFINE THEIR MESSAGE AND HONE IN AND GET THEIR VOTERS SO IT COULD BE A VERY INTERESTING RACE. I AM HOPING FOR THAT. >> ON THE POINT OF THE PUBLIC MONEY, YOU COVERED THIS QUITE A BIT. THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR OF PUBLIC FINANCING IN THIS MAYOR'S RACE. HOW DO YOU THINK IT IS GOING SO FAR? ONE THOUGHT THAT OCCURS TO ME IS THE FIELD IS MUCH SMALLER THAN IT HAS BEEN IN PREVIOUS MAYORAL RACES WHERE YOU HAVE HAD A MUCH LARGER FIELD. >> WELL, IT IS A BIG EXPERIMENT. I DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT HOW IT IS GOING TO WORK OUT BUT I THINK THE GETTING PUBLIC FINANCING FOR A MAYORAL CANDIDATE HAS TURNED OUT TO BE MUCH TOUGHER THAN ANYONE ANTICIPATED. WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN VIEWED AS STRONG CANDIDATES IN THE PAST LIKE

MICHAEL CADIGAN AND DEBBIE O'MALLEY, CITY COUNCILORS DROPPING OUT, BECAUSE THEY JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE CAMPAIGN ORGANIZATION THAT COULD SUCCEED, SO, I THINK ONE THING WE HAVE SEEN IS THAT IT APPEARS TO HAVE WINNOWED THE FIELD RATHER THAN BROADENED IT, WHICH IS A SURPRISE TO ME. AND IT SEEMS TO FAVOR PEOPLE WHO CAN TAP INTO AN ORGANIZATION BASE TO BASICALLY ACCESS THE PUBLIC FUNDING, TO GATHER THE QUALIFYING CONTRIBUTIONS AND SIGNATURES, AND CHAVEZ, AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN OFFICE FOR A LONG TIME, HE HAS, OF COURSE, BUILT UP AN ENORMOUS NETWORK OF BOTH FRIENDS AND ENEMIES BUT IN A TIME LIKE THIS, HE CAN DRAW ON THE SUPPORTERS TO HELP HIM GET QUALIFIED. AND BERRY, AS YOU KNOW, A VERY NTERESTED GOP RATE THAT WOULD LIKE TO RECAPTURE THE MAYOR'S SEAT. >> GOP BASE HELPED HIM GET ON

THE BALLOT AND QUALIFY. >> I BELIEVE SO. IT IS UNCLEAR HOW MUCH -- HOW DIRECTLY IT HAS HAPPENED BUT I DO THINK THE GOP NETWORK HAS BEEN A HELP TO HIM AND RICHARD ROMERO HAS HAD AN EXCELLENT CAMPAIGN TEAM THAT HAS HAD A GOOD RECORD AT BEING ORGANIZED AND GETTING PEOPLE TO THE POLLS AND I AM SURE THAT TAPPING THOSE KIND OF ORGANIZED INDIVIDUALS HELPED MARSHAL HIS FORCES. >> ONE ISSUE, DAN, THAT YOU RECENTLY WROTE ABOUT IN THE JOURNAL WAS THE GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT ISSUE. IT TENDS TO BE A HUGE ISSUE IN CITY ELECTIONS. THE LEAD OF YOUR STORY WAS "AT CITY HALL A NEW DEBATE IS EMERGING; WHERE TO DRAW THE LINE BETWEEN ECONOMIC STIMULUS AND TAXPAYER GIVEAWAY." DOES THE SPRAWL SMART GROWTH DEBATE BREAK DOWN CLEANLY AMONG THESE THREE CANDIDATES? >> THAT IS HARD TO SAY. I HAVE BEEN SURPRISED THAT THE CANDIDATES HAVEN'T TALKED A WHOLE LOT AT THIS POINT ABOUT GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT. ALMOST EVERYONE MENTIONS PUBLIC SAFETY, YOU KNOW,

EXPANDING THE POLICE FORCE, THE ECONOMY, THINGS LIKE THAT, GENERALLY. BUT THERE HASN'T BEEN QUITE AS MUCH TALK ABOUT IMPACT FEES AND WHETHER THE CITY IS SUBSIDIZING GROWTH IN CERTAIN -- ON THE FRINGES AT THE EXPENSE OF THE CORE OR WHETHER THE CITY IS DRIVING AWAY BUSINESS BY TRYING TO CHARGE MORE FOR DEVELOPMENT ON THE FRINGE. THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THAT AT THIS POINT. I SUSPECT THAT ROMERO WOULD BE THE MOST LIBERAL OR PROGRESSIVE AMONG THE GROUP, THE MOST LIKE SOMEONE LIKE JIM BACA WHO REALLY TRIED TO PROMOTE THE INNER CORE AND DOWNTOWN AND REDEVELOPING OLDER AREAS. WHEREAS CHAVEZ AND BERRY, I SUSPECT WILL BOTH CAST THEMSELVES AS PRO DEVELOPMENT, PRO GROWTH KIND OF PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO GROW THE ECONOMY IN A DIFFICULT TIME. THERE MAY BE SOME MORE NUANCE THAT SHOWS UP, BUT THAT IS

SORT OF THE WAY I SEE IT AT THIS POINT. >> WHEN YOU WERE ON THE COUNCIL, YOUR MOST RECENT TERM, '99 TO 2003, YOU WERE A PROMINENT OPPONENT OF THE PASEO DEL NORTE EXTENSION THROUGH THE PETROGLYPH MONUMENT AND YOU LOST THAT ONE. HOW DO YOU SEE THIS GROWTH DEVELOPMENT ISSUE PLAYING NOW IN THIS YEAR'S ELECTION. >> IN THIS YEAR'S ELECTION, IT SEEMS IT IS SUBORDINATED TO THE PARTICULAR CONCERNS OF THE PEOPLE VOTING. I THINK CITY EMPLOYEES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE JOBS AND WAGE SITUATION AND FISCAL CONSERVATIVES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE GENERAL CIRCUMSTANCES AND WHETHER THEY ARE GOING TO GET THE CITY SERVICES THAT THEY HAVE LIKED AT ADEQUATE PRICE AND I THINK TO THE EXTENT THAT SPRAWL ARGUMENTS AFFECT THAT THEY'LL BE SIGNIFICANT, BUT I POINT OUT THAT THE REAL CONSEQUENCES OF THE SPRAWL HAVE YET TO BE FELT IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC DEBT AND HOW WE RESOLVE THAT OVER A PERIOD OF YEARS. >> IN TERMS OF PAYING FOR INFRASTRUCTURE. >> AND CONTRACTION OF THE ECONOMY AND LETS HOPE WE DON'T HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF SPRAWL

PROBLEMS THAT OTHER PLACES ARE GOING THROUGH WHERE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE BEING VACATED, HOMES ARE BEING BULLDOZED, CRIME IS EXPLODING BECAUSE THE POLICE CAN'T COVER THE WHOLE EXPANDED CITY. SO, THE BILL ON SPRAWL HAS NOT COME DUE YET FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. >> SWITCHING GEARS. ONE ISSUE THAT HAS COME UP AND MAYBE IT IS INSIDE BASEBALL TO SOME, IN TERMS OF HOW THE INCUMBENT MAYOR, WHO HAS BEEN A BIT COY WHO HAS NOT MADE IT OFFICIAL, MAYBE DOING SO THIS WEEKEND, WE'RE HEARING, HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AN INCUMBENT MAYOR WHO CLEARLY HAS A JOB TO DO AND SAYS HE HAS A JOB TO DO, AND OUT THERE PUBLICLY, VERSUS OTHER CANDIDATES WHO SAY THEY ARE NOT GETTING ANY ATTENTION OR TRACTION FROM THE MEDIA. ONE EXAMPLE, THIS WEDNESDAY IN THE JOURNAL ON THE FRONT PAGE THERE WAS A STORY ABOUT YOUR COLLEAGUE TJ WILHELM ON THE MAYOR'S PROPOSAL TO ADD 100 COPS. AND THERE WAS A STORY, I BELIEVE YOU WROTE, ON THE MEDIANS, THE MAYOR'S PROPOSE TO LANDSCAPE MEDIANS. THERE WAS AN EDITORIAL ABOUT

DUKE, THE MAYOR'S DOG, AND WE HAVE A MAYOR SENSITIVE TO THE PLIGHT OF ANIMALS. SEEMS, YOU KNOW, TO THE CITIZENS, THEY SAY THE JOURNAL IS IN THE TANK FOR THE MAYOR. I AM SURE IT IS NOT THAT CUT AND DRY BUT HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE ISSUES. >> I THINK IT IS A DIFFICULT ONE THAT REPORTERS STRUGGLE WITH WHICH IS HOW TO TREAT EVERYONE FAIRLY. AND WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE BETWEEN COVERING HIM AS A MAYOR WHO IS ALWAYS IN THE NEWS VERSUS A CANDIDATE WHO IS USING YOU MORE THAN USUAL TO GAIN A LEG UP ON HIS OPPONENTS AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE ANY CLEAR ANSWERS. I THINK CERTAINLY IN MY OWN STORIES, I AM GOING TO TRY TO PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO EVEN WHEN THE MAYOR MAKES AN ANNOUNCEMENT OR HAS SOMETHING THAT HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT, I NEED TO GET SOME OTHER PERSPECTIVE. I DON'T KNOW THAT I AM GOING TO QUOTE OTHER CANDIDATES EVERY SINGLE TIME BUT

CERTAINLY GOING TO TRY AND MAKE SURE THE CITY COUNCIL HAS A PRESENCE IN THE STORY OR OTHER VIEWPOINTS SO THAT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOMETHING MEANINGFUL TO WORK OFF OF. BUT, AS YOU POINTED OUT, THIS MAYOR IS VERY SOPHISTICATED ABOUT USING ALL THE MEDIA TO GET HIS MESSAGE OUT AND HAS BEEN EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL AT DOING IT. >> ON A RELATED NOTE, HESS, ETHICS HAS BEEN A BIG CAUSE OF YOURS WHEN YOU WERE ON THE CITY COUNCIL. THERE ARE CRITICS OUT THERE OF THE MAYOR, ABQ PAC COMES TO MIND, AND YOU TRIED TO TAKE THAT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, SEEMS LIKE ANCIENT HISTORY BUT IN TERMS OF THE SUGGESTION MAYOR IS GETTING UNFAIR ADVANTAGE, NOT HAVING TO TAP INTO HIS PUBLIC FUNDS, YOU HEAR THAT A LOT FROM OPPONENTS. DO YOU THINK THAT IS PROFOUNDLY UNFAIR? IS THAT A BIG DEAL IN YOUR EYES? >> WELL, IT IS UNFAIR BUT IT IS A STRUCTURAL PROBLEM THROUGHOUT OUR SOCIETY. CONGRESS, THE REELECTION PERCENTAGE IS 98%.

INCUMBENT ALWAYS HAS TREMENDOUS ADVANTAGES. I THINK THE NEWS BUSINESS IS EVOLVING SUCH THAT PEOPLE ARE MORE CRITICAL AND THEY ARE GETTING THEIR INFORMATION FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES, SO, IN FAIRNESS, I AM ALWAYS SURPRISED HOW FEW PEOPLE, UNFORTUNATELY, READ THE NEWSPAPERS OR HOW MANY PEOPLE RELY ON A CERTAIN TELEVISION STATION. BUT I THINK, OVER TIME, THAT IS PROBABLY GOING TO DISSIPATE, BUT THE FACT IS GEOGRAPHY OF THE POLITICAL WORLD TODAY IS THE INCUMBENT HAS TREMENDOUS ADVANTAGES THAT THEY CAN TAKE. >> ONE ISSUE YOU HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH IS IMMIGRATION ISSUES HERE IN THE CITY. WERE YOU SURPRISED A COUPLE WEEKS AGO -- WE'LL HAVE; RJ BERRY ON NEXT WEEK. HE MADE A BIG DEAL OF THE DENNY'S MURDER AND POLICE POLICIES. IN HIS WORDS PARAPHRASING, POLICE HAVE ONE HAND TIED BEHIND THEIR BACK IN TERMS OF DEALING WITH FOLKS WHO MIGHT BE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS. DO YOU THINK THAT WAS A CHEAP SHOT? >> THE DENNYS INCIDENT WAS JUST HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE AND LET'S HOPE AND WORK THAT

NOTHING LIKE THAT CAN EVER HAPPEN AGAIN HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE. I THINK IN THE BROADER CONTEXT, IMMIGRANT POLICY DESERVES A LITTLE MORE DISCUSSION THAN JUST A FEW MINUTES. BUT, I THINK, WE'RE WELL SERVED BY IMMIGRANTS OVERALL. THE VAST MAJORITY OF IMMIGRANTS ARE HARD WORKING PEOPLE PAYING TAXES, TRYING TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM AND FROM MY PART OF THE WORLD, WE SHOULD TO BE GRATEFUL AND HAPPY THEY ARE HERE. OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE SOME ENFORCEMENT AND CRIMINAL LAW ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO WORK THROUGH BUT IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE, I THINK, THAT PEOPLE RESPOND WITH VIGOR AND UNHAPPINESS AFTER SOMETHING LIKE DENNYS WHICH IS JUST A TERRIBLE MATTER. >> I WISH WE COULD DEVOTE MORE TIME TO THAT, BUT IN THE TIME REMAINING, I WAS HOPING YOU COULD TALK TO US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CITY COUNCIL RACES. THEY ARE UP THIS YEAR TOO. WE WERE MENTIONING BEFORE WE STARTED THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF EX-COUNCILORS OR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS RUNNING. ARE THERE NOTABLE RACES YOU'RE WATCHING IN PARTICULAR THAT

OTHERS SHOULD BE WATCHING, TOO, YOU THINK? >> WELL, MAJORITY OF THE COUNCIL WILL BE ON THE BALLOT. AND, I BELIEVE, ALL FIVE INCUMBENTS ARE RUNNING, ONE UNOPPOSED, KEN SANCHEZ, SO YOU CAN KIND OF THROW THAT ONE OUT. TWO RACES IN PARTICULAR SHOULD TURN OUT TO BE REAL INTERESTING GIVEN THAT THEY BASICALLY PIT TWO INCUMBENTS AGAINST EACH OTHER. ISAAC BENTON, WHO REPRESENTS THE DOWNTOWN AREA, UNM AND A SLICE OF THE WESTSIDE, HE FACES A CHALLENGE FROM THE BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSION CHAIRMAN, ALLEN ARMIJO. >> FORMER CITY COUNCILOR. >> WHO IS A FORMER CITY COUNCILOR AND HAS BEEN IN OFFICE A LONG TIME. IN 2001, HE RAN FOR MAYOR. SO, THAT IS AN INTERESTING RACE BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND THE COUNTY COMMISSION CHAIRMAN FACING OFF. AND ON THE OTHER END OF TOWN, IN THE FOUR HILLS AREA AND THE NEAR NORTHEAST HEIGHTS, YOU

HAVE A FIRST TERM COUNCILOR, DON HARRIS, FACING AN INCUMBENT COUNTY COMMISSIONER, MICHAEL BRASHER. AND BRASHER HELD THAT SEAT, HIMSELF, WHEN HE WAS ON THE CITY COUNCIL, BEFORE HE JOINED THE COUNTY COMMISSION. SO, YOU HAVE GOT AT LEAST TWO RACES WHERE YOU HAVE GOT TWO INCUMBENTS MORE OR LESS. >> WE'LL KEEP TRACK OF THOSE. WE HAVE TO END THIS CONVERSATION HERE BUT DAN MCKAY, ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, HESS YNTEMA, FORMER CITY COUNCIL, THANK YOU. IN CASE YOU MISSED ANY ANALYSIS OF THE MAYORAL RACE OR OUR INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD ROMERO, HEAD TO WEBSITE AT ..... RIGHT NOW LET'S TURN IT OVER TO ROUND TABLE PANELISTS FOR THEIR THOUGHTS ON MORE THE MORE UNUSUAL ASPECTS OF THE RACE, PLUS A WHOLE LOT MORE. >> BEFORE WE GET INTO THE ELECTION TALK, LET'S INTRODUCE THE PANEL FOR THIS WEEK. REGULARS, MARGARET MONTOYA, UNM LAW PROFESSOR, OF COURSE, AND SHE HOLDS HAYWOOD BURNS CHAIR FOR CIVILIAN RIGHTS AT THE CUNY LAW SCHOOL IN NEW YORK. AND THIS SUMMER, SHE IS AT THE UNM HEALTH SCIENCE CENTER USING HER POSITION AS SENIOR ADVISOR TO EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT PAUL ROTH, VERY

BUSY. JIM SCARANTINO, RADIO HOST, COLUMNIST WITH THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, DOTING HUSBAND, THAT KEEPS HIM BUSY. WHITNEY CHESHIRE, LONG TIME POLITICAL CONSULTANT, STRATEGIST AND SLACKER. TERESA CORDOVA, GUESS PANELIST FOR THE SUMMER. SHE IS A FORMER BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSIONER AND DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL PLANNING AT UNM SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. INTERESTING INTERVIEW JUST NOW OR A COUPLE OF INTERVIEWS WITH DAVID AND LET'S START WITH THE SPECULATION ABOUT THE MAYOR, JIM, ANNOUNCING OFFICIALLY THIS WEEKEND. I THINK IT WAS NEW MEXICO INDEPENDENT CAUGHT THE FACT THAT ON HIS WEBSITE, IT SAYS MAYOR -- MARTIN CHAVEZ FOR MAYOR. SOME VERY SPECIFIC WORDING AT THE BOTTOM OF A SPECIFIC WEB PAGE. IT FEELS LIKE IT IS ON. SO, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? >> IT HAS BEEN ON SINCE HE CIRCULATED PETITIONS TO GET ON THE BALLOT. APPARENTLY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND, APPARENTLY IS ALREADY DRAWING DOWN ON PART OF HIS CAMPAIGN FUNDS BECAUSE THIS WEBSITE, WE'RE TOLD, WAS PAID FOR BY PART OF HIS $300,000 AND CHANGE THROUGH THE PUBLIC FINANCE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GET THE PUBLIC FINANCING BEFORE YOU OFFICIALLY DECLARE BUT HE HAS BEEN RUNNING FOR THE LONGEST TIME, AND NOW FINALLY GOING TO JUMP IN AND THE RACE IS ON IN ALL ITS FURY. I THINK WE DO HAVE THE FIRST CANDIDATE FORUM ALSO COMING UP SHORTLY. >> THAT IS RIGHT, TOO. WHITNEY, THIS PAST MONDAY, SIXTH, WAS AN IMPORTANT DATE IN THIS. EXPLAIN FOR FOLKS WHO MAY BE NEW TO THIS, WHAT THE WHOLE 90 DAY THING IS BACKING UP AND WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO WITHIN THE 90 DAY PERIOD. >> IT HAS TO DO WITH ADVERTISING DOLLARS ONCE YOU'RE AN INCUMBENT. THERE HAS BEEN SPECULATION AS TO WHY HE WAITED TO ANNOUNCE AND WHETHER HE WANTED TO BE SURE TO ADVERTISE AS MAYOR. JIM IS RIGHT, HE FILLED OUT A DISCLOSURE AND DISCLAIMER STATEMENT SAYING THAT HE WAS RUNNING IN ORDER TO GET PETITIONS TURNED IN. THE PROBLEM IS WHAT HE WANTS TO DO IS GET A BIG POP FOR HIS BIG ANNOUNCEMENT. TO ME, IT IS SAD BECAUSE THE MEDIA PLAYED INTO THIS. IS HE RUNNING OR NOT? WHO CARES. HE IS OBVIOUSLY RUNNING AND

GOTTEN THREE WEEKS OF PRESS OVER WHETHER OR NOT HE IS OR ISN'T. >> A DISCLOSURE, YOU ARE WORKING A BIT WITH RJ BERRY. >> I THINK THERE IS MORE THAN JUST GETTING A BIG POP. I MEAN PART OF IT WAS TRYING TO STRETCH OUT AND REALLY SEE HOW MUCH PUBLICITY HE COULD GET IN HIS POSITION AS MAYOR. >> HE IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET IT. THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. >> I AM REMINDED ABOUT MAYOR BLOOMBERG FROM NEW YORK CITY WHO WAS TERM LIMITED AND, YOU KNOW, THEN THAT WAS WAIVED BECAUSE THE CITY THOUGHT THAT GIVEN THE CRISIS OF THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN, IT HAD TO HAVE BLOOMBERG AND SO BLOOMBERG IS ALLOWED TO RUN AGAIN. I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE QUESTION COMES UP WITH RESPECT TO MARTY CHAVEZ. IF WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF MARTY CHAVEZ. AND I AM ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, OF MIXED MIND WITH RESPECT TO THAT. I THINK HE HAS MADE ALBUQUERQUE CERTAINLY A MORE BEAUTIFUL CITY. I THINK THAT A LOT OF THE MEDIANS AND LACK OF GRAFFITI,

I THINK HE IS SOMEONE WHO LOOKS AT ALBUQUERQUE FOR THE ESTHETICS OF IT AND DEFINITELY THAT HAS IMPROVED. >> LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ON THAT. I HEAR THAT A LOT ALSO AND I AM WONDERING IF MAYOR CHAVEZ -- AND THIS IS NOT TO TALK ABOUT HIS CHANCES COMING UP -- BUT WAS HE THE RIGHT GUY AT THE RIGHT TIME FOR THOSE ISSUES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND HAD ANY CHALLENGER COME TO THE SURFACE AND SAY, OKAY, HE DID A GREAT JOB UP TO THIS POINT, BUT THE CHALLENGES MOVING FORWARD ARE NOW DIFFERENT AND I AM THE PERSON TO CARRY US FORWARD. >> I DON'T KNOW WHO IS GOING TO HAVE THAT MESSAGE, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH. I AM GOING TO BE LISTENING CLOSELY TO RICHARD TO SEE IF, IN FACT, HE CAN REALLY ARTICULATE THAT MESSAGE. THAT IS, TO GIVE MARTY HIS DUE. THAT, IN FACT, HE DID BRING THE CITY INTO NATIONAL PROMINENCE, THAT I THINK MANY PEOPLE WOULD CREDIT HIM FOR THE ESTHETICS.

BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE LEFT UNDONE AND I DON'T THINK IT IS ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS A CRIME CAMPAIGN. THAT THAT IS REALLY NOT -- I THINK IT IS AN ASPECT OF WHERE ALBUQUERQUE IS LACKING BUT THERE IS MORE TO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. >> IT IS INTERESTING YOU SAID THAT. IN THE INTERVIEW WE JUST HAD WITH, DAN MCKAY, FROM THE JOURNAL AND HESS YNTEMA, WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE BIG NUT OF SPRAWL AND THAT WHOLE ISSUE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN SWEPT UNDER FOR THIS IDEA OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND CRIME BEING THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER THE INCUMBENT STAYS OR GOES. SOMEONE NEEDS TO BROADEN THIS DISCUSSION OUT, TERESA. SOMETHING IS NOT CLICKING. >> THAT IS A REALLY GOOD POINT, GENE. CERTAINLY PUBLIC SAFETY AND CRIME IS AN ISSUE AND I THINK IT IS AN ISSUE THAT THE PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO. WE HAVE SEEN THAT RECENTLY IN SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS WE HAVE HAD ABOUT THE CARTELS, DENNY'S SHOOTING AND SO ON. IT IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE. AND I THINK CERTAINLY, IT DOES

NEED TO BRING IT BACK TO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT SPRAWL. I THINK HE NEEDS TO BRING IT BACK ALSO TO THE CONVERSATION -- >> HE BEING WHO? >> WELL, THE MAYOR. RIGHT. MAYBE THE CITY, BUT I GUESS ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS AND THINGS THAT I THINK WHERE ADMINISTRATION HAS FALLEN SHORT, BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SEEN MORE COOPERATION AND COLLABORATION WITH THE CITY COUNCILORS BECAUSE CITY COUNCILORS, THEY REPRESENT THEIR DISTRICTS, PUBLIC WORKS, LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE MAYOR CONTROLS THE PURSE STRINGS AS IT RELATES TO PUBLIC WORKS. WHAT IS THE ABILITY OF A CITY COUNCILOR TO BE ABLE TO SAY, I NEED TO FIX ROADS OR POT HOLES OR DRAINAGE OR WHATEVER IN MY DISTRICT, WHEN THEY ARE NOT EVEN ABLE TO CONTROL THE DOLLARS THAT GO THAT WAY. SO, I THINK THE TOTAL ISSUE OF WHO IS CONTROLLING THE DOLLARS IN THIS SORT OF MAYOR-COUNCIL FORM OF GOVERNMENT, ESPECIALLY WHERE THERE IS A STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT, REALLY MAKES IT MUCH HARDER FOR THE CITY COUNCILORS TO BE ABLE TO BETTER REPRESENT THEIR DISTRICTS. >> WHITNEY, WE TALK ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME, THE OLD CLICHE ABOUT, YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CASE TO FIRE THE INCUMBENT RATHER THAN VOTE FOR THE CHALLENGER. I CAN'T SEE ANYBODY FRAMING

THIS YET TO FIRE THE INCUMBENT. >> THEY ALL HAVE EQUAL AMOUNTS HE HAS THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY TO SAY I HAVE BEEN DOING A GREAT JOB. IT IS NOT SO MUCH THEY ARE DISAGREEING THAT WE MADE PROGRESS IN THE 12 YEARS THAT HE HAS BEEN THERE. IT IS GOING TO BE CAN WE DO BETTER. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MAKING THE CHANGE THAT IS WHY TERM LIMITS IN A LOT OF WAYS ARE IMPORTANT. I DON'T SUPPORT THEM ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL FOR SMALL STATES, IN TERMS OF CONGRESS AND SENATE, BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A CEO'S JOB, THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE TERM LIMITS IN PLACE FOR PRESIDENT. CAN YOU IMAGINE IF PRESIDENT BUSH HAD RUN FOR ANOTHER EIGHT YEARS AND PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN UP IN ARMS AND WHEN THIS MAYOR CHALLENGED THAT LAW AT THE CITY LEVEL AND WON AND OVERTURNED IT AND GOT THE RIGHT TO RUN AGAIN, THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED. HE HAS BEEN THERE A LONG TIME. >> WHY HAS NO ONE MADE A STRONGER CASE ABOUT THAT VERY ISSUE, ABOUT CHALLENGING THE TERM LIMITS? THE MAN JUST WANTS TO HAVE THE SEAT TO BE LORDING OVER HIS KINGDOM. NO ONE WANTS TO GO THERE WITH

THIS. >> I THINK THAT IS RICHARD ROMERO'S LINE. HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE A CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP SO WE DON'T BUILD A POLITICAL REGIME AND DON'T HAVE A SEMI-MONARCHY TO HAVE WHAT WE HAD IN CHICAGO OR PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND, WITH MAYORS THERE FOREVER. THE LONGER HE IS THERE, THE MORE POWER HE GETS. YOU SEE THAT WITH THE STRUGGLES WITH THE UNION ENDORSEMENT. >> YOU HAVE BASICALLY THE UNION LEADERSHIP FOR SOME OF THE PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS ARE REALLY LINED UP 100% WITH MARTY CHAVEZ BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM FOR EIGHT YEARS AND THEY ARE AFRAID OF HIM. THEY MAY HAVE TO DEAL WITH HIM AGAIN AND THEY ARE BETTING ON HIM BEING THERE, BUT YOU HAVE THE RANK AND FILE, I UNDERSTAND, WHO WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT RICHARD ROMERO. WELL, THE MAYOR IS ABLE TO DIVIDE THE UNION BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN ENTRENCHED FOR SO VERY LONG AND LEADERSHIP KNOWS HE COULD WELL BE HERE NOT ANOTHER FOUR YEARS, BUT ANOTHER 8, 12 YEARS. >> I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO AGREE WITH JIM ON THAT POINT AND IT POINTS ALSO TO THE

ISSUE OF PATRONAGE POLITICS. WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF CONTRACTS AND PAY FOR PLAY AND ALL THE ISSUES THAT REALLY GET DOWN TO THE ISSUE OF PATRONAGE. AND MACHINE POLITICS ARE ALIVE AND WELL IN THE STATE. >> MARGARET, VOTERS HAVE FINAL SAY AND IF THEY ARE HAPPY WITH THE JOB THIS MAYOR IS DOING, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? RIGHT? WHY NOT RUN AGAIN? WHY NOT BE EFFECTIVE FOR PEOPLE WHO THINK YOU'RE EFFECTIVE? >> YEAH. I THINK THAT THE THEORY BEHIND TERM LIMITS IS THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE PEOPLE COME IN WITH NEW IDEAS BUT I ALSO THINK THAT YOU NEED IT IN ORDER TO REALIGN POWER AND THAT I THINK IS REALLY WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. IS THAT THIS POWER IS NOW HARDENING IN CEMENT AND THIS, I DON'T THINK, IS AT ALL ABOUT PARTISAN POLITICS. I REALLY THINK THIS IS ABOUT WHERE IS THE NEW BLOOD?

WHERE ARE THE WOMEN WHO ARE GOING TO LEAD US? WHERE ARE THE YOUNG GIRLS WHO REALLY CAN LOOK TO CITY GOVERNMENT AND SAY, I HAVE A PLACE HERE IN THIS CITY. WHAT ABOUT THE SCHOOLS? WHAT ABOUT JOBS? I THINK WHAT ABOUT POVERTY? I THINK THAT THERE ARE SO MANY TOPICS, AND, HOPEFULLY, RICHARD ROMERO, WHO HAS A VOICE ON THESE, HE HAS A VIEWPOINT ON THESE ISSUES. >> WHAT IT IS GOING TO COME DOWN TO IS I HEAR PEOPLE SAYING, BY AND LARGE, ALBUQUERQUE IS DOING PRETTY DARN WELL. WE HAVEN'T BEEN HIT AS HARD AS THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. THE CITY WORKS AND IT IS CLEAN AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT DECIDE ELECTIONS. IT IS ODD THAT THE PUBLIC FINANCING, ISSUE OF ETHICS ISN'T OUT THERE DOGGING MARTY CHAVEZ BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE TO RAISE FUNDS AND GET IN TROUBLE. THAT ISSUE IS GONE. >> PEOPLE CARE MORE ABOUT CRIME AND JOBS AND OUR JOBLESS RATE IS GOING THROUGH THE ROOF IN THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE AND BECAUSE OF THE RECENT VIOLENT CRIMES, IT HAS HEIGHTENED PEOPLES' AWARENESS ON WHERE ARE WE. >> THE MAYOR HIMSELF HAD TO BACK PEDAL AND SAY HE IS GOING

TO ADD 100 OFFICERS. WE HAVE GOTTEN TO THIS POINT BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T BEEN FOCUSING ON PUBLIC SAFETY. >> WE'LL TRACK THIS ONE CLOSELY OF COURSE. DEJA VU FOR FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN, STEVEN PEARCE. OF COURSE, HE GAVE UP HIS SEAT AS A REP LAST YEAR TO RUN FOR PETE DOMENICI'S SENATE SEAT AND GOT FAIRLY TROUNCED BY TOM UDALL. AND NOW PEARCE SAYS HE IS READY TO RECLAIM HIS OLD SEAT IN DISTRICT 2 AGAINST HARRY TEAGUE. HE IS PARTICULARLY BUMMED OUT ABOUT THE CAP AND TRADE VOTE MR. TEAGUE HAD AND APPARENTLY THERE WAS A HEATED LAS CRUCES MEETING WITH MR. TEAGUE, DEPENDING ON WHOSE VERSION OF IT YOU TEND TO BELIEVE; NOT HEARD OR SHOUTED DOWN. IT SEEMS ODD HERE THAT STEVEN PEARCE WANTED TO BE GOVERNOR AND BECAUSE OF ONE VOTE, HE HAS TURNED AROUND AND SAID, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, I THINK I WANT TO BE A CONGRESSMAN AGAIN. HOW DOES THAT STRIKE YOU? >> IT IS NOT JUST ANYONE. HERE IS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS OIL

AND GAS, WHO REALLY HAS A CONSTITUENCY ON THIS ISSUE. I ALSO THINK THERE IS A NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONSENSUS AGAINST CAP AND TRADE. THAT HE CAN TAP INTO A BASE. I ALSO THINK THAT HE IS GOING TO BE SUPPORTED BY THE OBAMA FOLKS, THAT NATIONAL MONEY IS GOING TO FLOW IN. I THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A RACE THAT IS GOING TO BE WATCHED. THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE HIS BACK, EVEN THOUGH, HE IS A SPOTTY SUPPORTER OF THE OBAMA AGENDA. IT IS AS NOT AS THOUGH HE IS A PREDICTABLE GUY. >> IT IS DISTRICT THAT MR. MCCAIN CARRIED. DO YOU RECALL THAT? >> NO, HE DIDN'T. HE DIDN'T AND IT WAS THE FIRST TIME AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY HE LOST THE STATE. >> THE THING ABOUT THIS IS THAT THE INDUSTRY, THE MAJOR

EMPLOYER, THE CULTURE OF 2/3 OF THAT DISTRICT IS OIL AND GAS. IT PROVIDES THE JOBS. IT RUNS THE SMALL TOWNS, IT RUNS THE BANKS, AND -- >> HARRY TEAGUE IS NO STRANGER TO THE BUSINESS. >> I KNOW, HE IS AN OIL AND GAS MILLIONAIRE JUST LIKE STEVE PEARCE; SERVICES MILLIONAIRE. THEY DIDN'T DRILL THE WELLS, THEY PROVIDE THE EQUIPMENT AND SERVICES. HE SPLIT WITH THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ON OTHER VOTES LIKE THE STIMULUS AND THEN HE VOTED ON THIS CAP AND TRADE BILL WHICH IS GOING TO HURT THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY IN NEW MEXICO. IT IS GOING TO ADD TO THE UNEMPLOYMENT, IT IS INTENDED TO DO THAT AND HE IS ALREADY FACING THE ANGER AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO BUILD AGAINST HIM ON THIS. HE REALLY SET HIMSELF UP ON THIS. NOW, STEVE PEARCE IS NOT THE GOP CANDIDATE YET. HE IS THE ONLY ANNOUNCED GOP CANDIDATE. COULD BE SOMEBODY ELSE. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS POINTS TO IS ENVIRONMENT VERSUS JOBS ARGUMENT WE USED TO HAVE. AND ONE OF THE DIRECTIONS

ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT TOOK IS TO SAY, LOOK IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER AND HOW CAN YOU TALK ABOUT COMBINING THE NOTION OF ENVIRONMENT AND JOBS. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE BEING PIT AGAINST. IF THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY SOMEHOW HAS POLLUTING ASPECTS AND CONTRIBUTING TO GLOBAL WARMING, SOMEHOW WE CAN'T TOUCH IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO PROTECT THAT INDUSTRY AND JOBS, EVEN THOUGH IT MAY IMPACT THE ENVIRONMENT. SO IT IS A MUCH LARGER QUESTION THAT I THINK GOES BEYOND HARRY TEAGUE OR STEVE PEARCE. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE ISSUE OF TRYING TO MAINTAIN OUR INDUSTRY IN THIS STATE, BUT STILL ALSO DEAL WITH LONG-TERM ISSUES. IF I CAN CONCLUDE ONE LAST POINT. IT ISN'T NECESSARILY THE CASE THOUGH THAT THOSE JOBS CAN'T BE REPLACED WITH OTHER KINDS OF JOBS THAT ACTUALLY DO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY. >> THAT IS THE THEORY AND THAT IS THE LONG THOUGHT AS THEY SAY, BUT DOES THAT DO ANYTHING WHEN WE HAVE A MIDTERM COMING UP IN 2010. >> NO AND THE SECOND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT IS A CONSERVATIVE DISTRICT. YOU HAVE DEMOCRATS DOWN THERE

THAT CROSS OVER AND VOTE REPUBLICAN VERY EASILY. AND STEVE PEARCE HAS PROVEN THAT HE CAN WIN DOWN THERE WITHOUT MUCH DIFFICULTY. I DID DISAGREE ABOUT HIM TALKING ABOUT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR. I AM NOT SURE HE REALLY DID. HE WAS FLOATING ALL THE IDEAS BUT NEVER GAVE UP HIS PLACE IN WASHINGTON D.C. AND IN ALL THE TIMES I HAVE WORKED WITH HIM, HE HAS BEEN MORE FOCUSED ON FEDERAL ISSUES THAN HE WAS IN TERMS OF THE LOCAL AND STATE. IT WAS A GOOD FIT FOR HIM, HIS CONGRESSIONAL SEAT. I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS GOING TO BE THAT DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO WIN IT BACK BECAUSE IT WAS ONE OF THE RACES THAT REPUBLICANS WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT AND SAY HERE IS A CHANCE OF US TAKING IT BACK. >> I THOUGHT HARRY TEAGUE WOULD BE REELECTED UNTIL HE VOTED THAT WAY IN THAT DISTRICT. HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO FACE THE SCIENCE NOW. I MEAN THE PLANET HAS NOT WARMED IN THE PAST 10 YEARS. THERE IS NO LONGER A CONSENSUS THAT MAN IS CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING. HANG ON A SECOND. >> THE RESEARCH BEING FUNDED

BY ENRON. >> WE TALK ABOUT THIS ON THIS SHOW. EVERY MEASUREMENT OF THE PLANETARY TEMPERATURE, RECENT ONE BY UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA, THE LEADING MEASURE, SHOWS THE PLANET IS NOT WARMING. SO, HARRY TEAGUE IS GOING TO HAVE -- ARCTIC IS COLDER NOW THAN IN 50 YEARS, I'LL SEND YOU THE REPORTS. >> HOLD ON MARGARET, JUST FOR CONTEXT, HARRY TEAGUE WAS QUOTED THIS PAST COUPLE OF DAYS AS SAYING HE WAS NOT SURE ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING. ABOUT MAN CAUSING IT, RIGHT, HE HIMSELF. >> I THINK THAT THIS IS NIXON GOING TO CHINA. THAT SOMEONE LIKE TEAGUE, IF IN FACT, HIS STAFF IS ABLE TO GET HIM UP TO SPEED ON THESE ISSUES, THAT HE CAN START TO CREATE THE KIND OF DISCUSSION IN HIS DISTRICT THAT WE NEED TO HAVE IN NEW MEXICO ABOUT THESE ISSUES. >> I THINK IT IS ABOUT CAMPAIGN SUPPORT. I MEAN, HE IS HAVING A HARD TIME. IF PEOPLE START VOTING ANYMORE IN A DIRECTION THAT WOULD GRAB

CROSSOVER REPUBLICAN, HE IS RISKING A LOT OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT. >> HERE WE HAVE THIS HUGE ISSUE OF GLOBAL WARMING AND THERE IS RESEARCH FUNDED BY THE BIG OIL CORPORATIONS THAT SAY THERE ISN'T A PROBLEM OF GLOBAL WARMING. BUT HERE WE HAVE THE LONG-TERM ISSUES AND WE HAVE A MAN WHO IS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING ON THE VOTES HE IS TAKING. IT IS CLEAR THAT HE DOESN'T JUST VOTE ALONG PARTY LINES OR IDEOLOGY, HE IS REALLY TRYING TO THINK THROUGH THE VOTES. GOOD MAN TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, RIGHT, AND EVEN TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR HIS DISTRICT AND YET, SORT OF LIKE, OKAY NOW, THIS BALANCE BETWEEN DOING THE RIGHT THING AND WHETHER OR NOT HOW HE IS GOING TO DO -- >> HE ADMITTED HE DIDN'T READ THE BILL AND HE HAS SAID, I AM NOT SURE THAT MANKIND IS CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING. YET HE HAS VOTED FOR A BILL THAT IS INTENDED TO RAISE THE COST ON OIL AND GAS -- OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY TO MAKE IT NONCOMPETITIVE. >> I GOT TO STOP THIS AND JIM MAKES INTERESTING POINT, IT WAS INTERESTING TO ME HE NEEDS

TO CRAWL BACK FROM THIS, IT SEEMS TO ME. BECAUSE HIS QUOTES FOLLOWING THE VOTE WERE NOT VERY CONFIDENT BUILDING. SAYING, THAT IS WHY I HAVE STAFF. TO READ BILLS. >> YOU KNOW. >> IT IS TRUE THAT YOU HAVE STAFF READ BILLS. >> BUT, ON SUCH A BILL LIKE THAT, YOU CAN'T SAY THAT ON SUCH A BILL LIKE THIS. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. ESPECIALLY A FLAWED BILL LIKE THIS CAP AND TRADE BILL THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH IT. >> THE PROBLEM WITH CAP AND TRADE IS SIMILAR TO POLLUTION CREDITS. SO, I HAVE RESERVATIONS MYSELF WHETHER THIS IS THE BEST SOLUTION, BECAUSE IT IS SIMILAR TO -- >> I WISH WE COULD DO THE WEBSITE THIS WEEK, WE COULD DO AN HOUR ON THIS. VERY DIFFERENT SUBJECT, MICHAEL JACKSON HAS DOMINATED THE AIRWAYS AS WOULD BE EXPECTED. FANS MOURN THE LOSS OF THE POP ICON AROUND THE WORLD AND HERE IN NEW MEXICO AS WELL. IN ADDITION, GUYS, MANNY RAMIREZ, HE WAS IN TOWN AND WE HAD THE WHOLE HULLABALOO, WE HAVE A GOVERNOR, MARGARET, IN SOUTH CAROLINA, DOING ALL KINDS OF CRAZY STUFF. INTERESTING IN THIS IDEA OF

THIS RELATIONSHIP WE HAVE WITH EITHER CELEBRITIES OR PERSONALITY, MEANING THE GOVERNOR, WHO IS NOT A CELEBRITY, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING. HOW WE RESPOND AND WHAT DOES THIS REFLECT IN HOW WE ARE AS PEOPLE? >> I THINK THAT THE MICHAEL JACKSON SLICE OF THIS ILLUSTRATES TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF INTELLIGENT. ON THE ONE HAND WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS A GENIUS MUSICALLY AND KINESTHETICALLY IN TERMS OF HIS ABILITY TO USE HIS BODY. AND, TO ENTERTAIN, TO CREATE MEMORABLE MUSIC. HE HAS A GLOBAL FOLLOWING. THAT IS INDISPUTABLE. IF WE THEN SHIFT TO MORAL INTELLIGENCE, I MEAN, THIS IS A PERSON WHO REALLY WAS VERY DEFICIENT. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD SECOND GUESS VERDICTS. BUT, JUST THE ADMISSIONS THAT HE MADE ARE EXTREMELY

TROUBLING IN TERMS OF SOMEONE WHO IS EMULATED AROUND THE WORLD. I MEAN, AND I THINK THAT THIS HYPERSEXUALIZATION IS PART OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. I THINK THAT THAT IS PART OF THE MARK SANFORD SITUATION, WHERE THERE IS ALMOST A PASS THAT IS GIVEN TO HIM BY HIS OWN PARTY AND ALMOST -- IT BECOMES CULTISH BECAUSE OF THE ROMANTICISM OF HIS NOTES OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, SORT OF FLEEING OFF TO BUENOS AIRES. AND, SO, I THINK THAT AN ASPECT OF THIS IS ABOUT POPULAR CULTURE AND CELEBRITY, BUT, I THINK THAT THERE IS ANOTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT MORALITY THAT IS MUCH HARDER TO HAVE. AND, THAT IT IS ALMOST AS IF, THOUGH, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POPULAR CULTURE, WE'RE OUTSIDE OF MORALITY. THAT, THAT IS BEST LEFT TO, I

DON'T KNOW, SUNDAY MORNINGS, RIGHT? BUT THAT IT ISN'T MTV, IT ISN'T THAT WHOLE OTHER PART. >> THAT IS AN INTERESTING POINT. THAT DUAL TRACK THING. I HEARD A GREAT QUOTE FROM JOHN MAYER, MUSICIAN, THAT WITH HIS PASSING EVERYBODY NOW HAS THE MICHAEL JACKSON, THE PERFECT MICHAEL JACKSON, OF THEIR MEMORY BACK. RIGHT? WE CAN RECLAIM THE MICHAEL JACKSON THAT MEANT THE MOST TO US AND DISASSOCIATE FROM ALL THE STUFF THAT GAVE US A LOT OF PROBLEMS. AND THIS IS GETTING TO MARGARET'S POINT. LIKE THIS WILLFUL IGNORANCE. ALL THE TROUBLING STUFF IS OUT THE WINDOW WITH CERTAIN PEOPLE. >> WE TEND TO DO THAT WITH ALL OUR CELEBRITIES. THERE IS A SAYING, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD NEWS IF YOU ARE IN THE CELEBRITY BUSINESS. BRITNEY SPEARS, LINDSEY LOWEN, BILL CLINTON WAS AT HIS PEAK OF POPULARITY WHEN IT WAS CLEAR THAT HE LIED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT HAVING SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH AN INTERN IN THE OVAL OFFICE. THERE IS INTERESTING COLUMN BY DAVID BROOKS WHERE HE TALKED ABOUT THE LOSS OF DIGNITY IN

OUR PUBLIC FIGURES AND I WAS THINKING -- I WAS READING JUST 1776 BY DAVID MCCULLOCH, THINKING OF THE MAN WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE IDOL OF AMERICA AT A TIME WHEN HE REJECTED IT, WHEN HE REALIZED THAT THIS IDOLATRY, THIS CULT PERSONALITY, IS DIRECT THREAT TO MAINTAINING DEMOCRACY. I THINK IT PREPS THE POPULOUS FOR DICTATORSHIP, BECAUSE YOU BEGIN LOOKING TO PEOPLE AND IDOLS AND YOU POUR THINGS INTO THIS PERSON THAT IS CREATED. WE CREATE THESE PERSONALITIES. WHICH, YOU KNOW, WE CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE AND IGNORE THE WHOLE TRUTH, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO. I CANNOT. I LOVE HIS MUSIC. BUT I CANNOT IGNORE HIS ADMISSIONS ABOUT, WAS HE A PEDOPHILE? I AM SORRY. THAT QUESTION WILL ALWAYS BE WITH ME. >> WHITNEY, INTERESTING, LET ME STICK WITH SANFORD FOR SECOND, MAUREEN DOWD, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, INTERESTING COLUMN, BUT WE'RE COMPLICATED, BE IT REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, INDEPENDENT, WE ARE COMPLICATED BEINGS.

ARE WE EXPECTING TOO MUCH OF ELECTED PEOPLE? >> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, YES AND NO. BECAUSE, WHAT DO WE DO WITH OUR NEIGHBORS? WHAT DO WE DO WITH OUR BROTHERS? WITH OUR -- >> WITH OUR CHILDREN. >> WHAT DO WE DO, DO WE SIT THERE AND SAY, I KNOW THERE IS FUNNY BUSINESS GOING ON IN THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR BUT HOW MANY OF US TAKE THE WALK AND SAY, I NEED TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT WHAT I HEARD YOU YELLING. HOW MANY OF US DO THAT? AND YET, WE SIT BACK AND WE THINK THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SOME ALL ENCOMPASSING RULER THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER MICHAEL JACKSON WAS FLAWED, MORAL OR IMMORAL. I GOT SO SICK AND TIRED OF LISTENING TO PEOPLE BLAME THE MEDIA ON THIS OR THE MEDIA BLAMING THEMSELVES. GIVE ME A BREAK. IT IS WHAT WE WANT. WE BUY THE INQUIRER. WE BUY EXAMINER AND SPEND $150 ON TICKETS. WHAT ABOUT THE PERSON THAT SPENT $15,000 TO GO TO HIS MEMORIAL SERVICE WHEN HE COULD HAVE WATCHED IT ON TV WITH THE OTHER 30 OR 50 MILLION. WE DO IT TO OURSELVES.

WE VOTE WITH OUR POCKETBOOK. WE VOTE WITH OUR TV CHANGERS AND THEN SIT BACK AND TRY AND BLAME THE MEDIA FOR THIS MESS; ABSOLUTELY NOT. >> YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS ON THIS. >> I HAVE A LOT OF -- I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE AND HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE BIG LOVERS OF MICHAEL JACKSON. I AM NOT PREPARED TO MAKE A MORAL JUDGMENT ON THIS MAN NOR TO JUDGE WHAT HE HAD TO GO THROUGH TO DEAL WITH WHATEVER HE HAD TO GO THROUGH WITH HIS LIFE. IN TALKING TO VARIOUS PEOPLE, I ASKED WHAT WAS IT TO THEM THAT WAS SO COMPELLING? WHY ARE THEY SO DRAWN TO HIM? >> ONE ANSWER THAT I GOT WAS WHEN THEY THINK ABOUT HIS MUSIC AND THEY LISTEN TO THE WORDS OF HIS MUSIC, THAT IT WAS REALLY ABOUT LOVE AND ABOUT TRYING TO PASS LOVE GLOBALLY AND SO, IN THAT SENSE, HE WAS A SORT OF GLOBAL AMBASSADOR OF GOODWILL AND GOODNESS. EVEN THE OTHER NIGHT ON THE MEMORIAL, KOBE BRYANT IS THE ONE THAT PRESENTED THE FACT THAT HE HAD MORE THAN ANY OTHER POP OR ENTERTAINER GIVEN THE MOST AMOUNT OF HUMANITARIAN AID.

"WE ARE THE WORLD" WAS MICHAEL JACKSON PULLING PEOPLE TOGETHER. AND I THINK THAT WAS A MAN WHO WANTED DESPERATELY TO GIVE LOVE AND TO GET LOVE AND I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE POWERS OF IT AND AMAZING TO ME HOW MUCH HAPPINESS HE BROUGHT TO PEOPLE THROUGH HIS MUSIC. AND THAT I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT WHEN TALKING TO PEOPLE THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS, THEY WERE DRAWN ABOUT. >> THE WOMAN THAT FLEW IN FROM SCOTLAND TO BE IN LOS ANGELES. >> THE WHOLE RACIAL STUFF THAT CIRCULATES AROUND MICHAEL JACKSON IS EXTREMELY INTERESTING. THE WHOLE MASK, RIGHT? HE IS SUCH A MASKED INDIVIDUAL. THAT WE DON'T REALLY KNOW MUCH, I THINK, ABOUT THE PERSON. WE KNOW ABOUT THESE EXTERNAL EXPRESSIONS. >> BROOK SHIELDS CERTAINLY GAVE US A LOT -- >> BROKE MY HEART. >> TIME TO PUT THESE GUYS TO THE TEST BY PUTTING THEM ON THE CLOCK. YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS, THEY HAVE MINUTE AS GROUP TO TACKLE EACH OF THE FOLLOWING TOPICS.

IDEA IS KEEP IT SHORT. NOW, ON FRIDAY, JULY 3, GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON RECEIVED "AMERICA'S GREATEST EDUCATION GOVERNOR AWARD," FROM THE NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION. HONORED FOR AMONG OTHER THINGS, EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION EFFORTS, BRINGING BACK PHYSICAL EDUCATION, INCREASING TEACHER PAY AND RESTORING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RIGHTS. MARGARET ALSO WHEN THERE WAS -- THAT IS A HECK OF A TITLE. >> EFFORT VERSUS OUTCOME. FOR EFFORT, I THINK THAT IN FACT HE SHOULD BE APPLAUDED. HE SHOULD BE AWARDED. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THOSE EFFORTS, INCLUDING TEACHER PAY, PRE-K EDUCATION, THOSE THINGS, HUGE CHANGES. BUT THE OUTCOMES HAVE NOT -- >> MEANING THERE IS A RANKING. >> NEA IT IS A LOBBYING ORGANIZATION. HE GOT THIS AWARD FOR HIS CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING. ALL THE ARTICULATIONS OF THE OTHER POSITIVE THINGS, THOSE

ARE THINGS THAT OUR LEGISLATORS HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN DOING FOR MANY YEARS. WE CAN LOOK AT STATE LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE, FOR EXAMPLE, SO, IF I MAY FINISH, AND THE OTHER THING THAT IS IMPORTANT HERE, IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT EDUCATION, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF POVERTY AND HOW POVERTY AFFECTS THIS. >> LEGISLATURE GETS TO TAKE CREDIT RIGHT ALONG WITH HIM WITH HAVING POOR SCORES ON PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING HE DID WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE. THEY HAVE ALL OF OUR SCORES ACROSS THE BOARD HAVE GONE DOWN. >> THERE IS THE BELL AND I BELIEVE WE ARE STILL 48TH IN THE RANKING. 48TH. OUTCOMES, RESULTS, EFFORTS AND RESULTS, THANK YOU. ACCORDING TO 2008 U.S. CENSUS BUREAU ESTIMATED THAT HAVE JUST RELEASED NEW MEXICO'S FASTEST GROWING CITY IS CUBA. I LOVE CUBA. ALL RIGHT, RIO RANCHO, BERNALILLO, CRUCES, GROWING LIKE CRAZY, WE'RE TALKING NUMBERS THAT WERE ALMOST OFF THE CHARTS AS A PERCENTAGE. >> PERCENTAGE. NOT IN TOTAL NUMBERS. >> THAT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE

WHEN YOU GO FROM 500 SOME TO OVER, WHAT WAS THE FINAL NUMBER? 1500. >> PERCENTAGE-WISE NOT TOTAL. AT ONE POINT SOCORRO WAS THE FASTEST GROWING PLACE. CUBA IS GROWING BECAUSE OF THE NATURAL GAS INDUSTRIES; JOBS THAT ARE UP THERE AND I BELIEVE YOU SEE A LOT OF NAVAJOS MOVING OFF THE RESERVATION. CUBA IS PREDOMINANTLY NAVAJO NOW OR CLOSE. >> DO WE HAVE A POTENTIAL FLASH POINT COMING WITH THIS KIND OF GROWTH IN THIS KIND OF SITUATION? >> I THINK THAT PART OF WHAT MAKES CUBA ATTRACTIVE IS THAT IT IS FAR AWAY ENOUGH FROM ALBUQUERQUE, THAT YOU'RE IN A RURAL AREA BUT YOU CAN COME BACK AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE A WHOLE DONUT OF LITTLE PLACES A ROUND ALBUQUERQUE AND AROUND THE OTHER URBAN AREAS. >> GOVERNOR JOHNSON GOT THAT DONE, MADE TRANSPORTATION BETWEEN HERE AND FARMINGTON AND DURANGO FASTER. >> I FORGOT ABOUT THAT. IT IS A CRUISE NOW. THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE

FOR "THE LINE" THIS WEEK BUT WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU OF COURSE. IS THERE IS TOPIC YOU WOULD LIKE THESE GUYS TO TAKE ON, SEND US AN E-MAIL ..... OR GO TO THE BLOG .... SEE YOU NEXT TIME. >> TO WATCH PAST EPISODES OF NEW MEXICO "IN FOCUS" OR TO ACCESS SPECIAL ON LINE VIDEOS JUST LOG ON TO ..... AND CLICK ON THE "WATCH ON LINE" TAB AT THE TOP OF THE SCREEN. >> ALSO BE SURE TO TUNE BACK INTO KNME 5.1 FOR A SPECIAL PROGRAM SATURDAY, JULY 11, AT 10:00 P.M., THAT IS WHEN YOU CAN SEE THE NEW MEXICO PRODUCED DOCUMENTARY "CODY; THE FIRST STEP." IT IS THE STORY OF CODY UNSER, DAUGHTER OF INDY RACING GREAT, AL UNSER, JR. AND AT AGE 12 IN 1999, CODY DEVELOPED TRANSVERSE MYELITIS, A NEUROLOGICAL DISORDER RESULTING RESULTING IN PARALYSIS. THE DOCUMENTARY DETAILS HER DAY-TO-DAY LIFE WHICH INCLUDES ATTENDING COLLEGE AND ENCOURAGING STEM CELL RESEARCH AND DOING PUBLIC APPEARANCES. >> YOU WANT TO CHECK THAT OUT AND WE HOPE YOU WON'T WANT TO MISS ANY OF NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE WHERE WE CONTINUE

DISCUSSIONS WITH MAYORAL CANDIDATES. UNTIL NEXT TIME, THANKS FOR WATCHING AND HAVE A GREAT WEEK.