New Mexico in Focus; Bob N #1 In Focus; Interview with Bob Nordhaus

You You You He had a vision for Albuquerque and he

never let it go. He dreamed of getting people to the Sandia Peak on the world's longest trim and he made it happen. He's mover and shaker Bob Nordhaus and he's next in focus. His resume reflects the life of a man who knew how to seize the day. Bob Nordhaus accomplished in his lifetime the work of many. Not only is he credited with developing what is presently the Sandia Peak ski

area in 1936. After World War II, he organized the Madera Company and developed trails and ski lifts, culminating in the construction of the Sandia Peak aerial tramway in 1962. But that's only a fourth of his accomplishments. He graduated from Yale Law School in 1935. He represented the Hikariya Apache Tribe and the Laguna Pueblos of New Mexico, successfully bringing about a negotiated settlement of Indian water disputes. He was president of the Alvarado Realty Company between 1945 and 1949. He was active in ranching as a partner in the Ilfeld Sheep Company. He was vice chairman of the Albuquerque Planning Commission. He was chairman of the Metropolitan Airport Development Committee. He was one of the organizers and trustee of the village of Los Ranchos, the Albuquerque. He enlisted in the New Mexico National Guard in 1940 and he served in the 804th Tank Destroyer Battalion. His accomplishments are many

but he's best remembered for his contribution to New Mexico's tourist industry. In this 1960s clip, Bob is shown supervising the construction of the Sandia Peak tramway. Well, the tram construction was very difficult because of the long spans. We had to build a 70 foot pit, dig a 70 foot pit down at the bottom to hold the counterways. The cable had to be pulled. First, we had the cables weigh 100 ,000 pounds each. They came in on box cars, one spool per box car. They required to haul them up. They had to be hauled over the ground without hurting them on the rocks. All of that was very hazardous because if a cable had been badly scratched our whole project, we didn't have the money to replace a cable. Then the tower two had to be built by

helicopter. There were 30 foot holes drilled down in the rock there and rods down and filled with concrete. All of that material had to be hauled up by helicopter to tower two. Tower one could be serviced by a road that we put in. And the air had to be the air for the compressor. We couldn't get a compressor up by air, alipoctor. Anyway, the cable pull went very well. We never lost the cable. Then, of course, the towers had to be erected. Tower one was 180 feet high and one is the highest. You see that in the movies. You see them moving. Anyway, we were very fortunate that nothing happened. We had no accidents. And in 1966, we opened it up on time and everybody wrote it up. It was fine

except on one of the trips, the cables stretched a little too much and the upper cabin didn't get in. People had to get on low through the roof, but that was okay. Well, let's go back to 1935. The Forest Service at that time was looking for winter sport possibilities. And you were asked to come look at the area here in New Mexico. Graham and Gowne traveled throughout New Mexico looking for ski areas. And he picked the potential of the present ski area. And he was an engineer for the Forest Service. And he wrote for the American ski annual. He wrote an article sort of exolting the possibility of San Diego Santa Fe in Tows. And actually, he later helped us. But in 1936, I just

returned from a honeymoon and just got out of the law school and passed the bar. And we looked at the mountain and there was absolutely no recreation in the winter for New Mexico residents. There was nothing to do. Really, outdoors. So Virginia and I decided that we'd go look on the other side of the mountain. So we were able to drive to Sandy Park. And we picked up some old skis from Roy Stam, the father of Bob Stam, Bradbury Stam construction. And we had tow straps for bindings and inner tubes to hold our skis to our boots to the skis and we had no hiking boots. So we drove to Doc Long and that was the end of the end of the road that was plowed. And so we walked up to the first curve

at Doc Long. And there was an old road and we skied down that and fell and no way to stop. So during that trip that you went up at hike, you decided at that point that this was a good place? Well, we thought we'd do some, we'd like to organize, really organize some skiing. You saw the potential. Yeah, and so the Forest Service cleared a small hill at tree springs just below the present area. And in 3637 we did in the winter, in that winter we climbed and skied down that and we really didn't know anything about skiing. Then in the summer of 37, the Forest Service helped us lay out the lower hill where the present ski area

is. And we put in a shelter, just a shelter there in 37. And we put in the rope toe. And the rope toe was powered by an old Chevy truck motor, which we hauled in, we man -handled into place. And we bought rope and we put in a 1 ,500 foot rope toe, which is pretty long rope toe. And we had to have towers to keep the rope off the ground. And Charlie Davis and I scrounged the junkyards for Model A wheels and axles which were used as idlers for the rope toe. And we built a little high up on top for the pulleys that used the

rope on top. Now before you got involved with this with the Forest Service, did you see the potential or was there the potential at that point for popular winter sport called skiing? Well, the only really, there were practically no ski areas in the west. Sun Valley opened in 37. There was the first western ski area. There have been ski areas in the east and there were ski areas in various places in the east, particularly around Mount Washington in that area. And there had been, and Dartmouth had a ski program as early as 1933. They had a competitive program. And Dick Durance, who was a friend of mine, was later one of a national champion. He had ski at Dartmouth and he was a top international skier. So there were

ski areas in the east but not in the west. Then in 1938, the Challenger Inn, which is the inexpensive inn at Sun Valley, the lodge was completed in 37. In 38, the Union Pacific decided to promote skiing in the west in the Rocky Mountain area. So they offered a special card to skiers from Denver. Winter Park in Denver actually had a J. Bar toe. Winter Park was run by the city of Denver. They had a rope toe in 1938 when we went when I went skiing up there. So you got the rope toe and albacruki done when? In 37. In 37. Yeah, and Santa Fe got one in Hyde Park the same year. So we had a very, very congenial group. Santa Fe Trace

Freetos had a rope toe. It's now Cipapoo. And we had races between our areas. We had parties after races. And it was a very, very intimate community of skiers. And I would say that we had at that time 50 skiers in 38. Well, let's talk about the tram. Let's talk about how that came about. The rope toe and the ski lift became very popular. And so you saw the need then for it? Yeah, well then, well, first we had to put after the war put in the Constantinople. And that was a 4200 foot T -bar. A T -bar is a, it has an overhead cable and a drum. And a rope, a wire rope that comes down with a T -bar and two passengers on each side. And one of ours was one of the longest in the country. And we

decided on a, we decided on a year, on a day, every day operation. And so I got a manager and we built bunk houses and we had a little restaurant. And we had a cook. And it's sort of interesting. We got our cooks from the reliable pawn shop in Albuquerque. And our tenured cooks pawn their knives and forks, their cutlery at the pawn shops. When they came into Albuquerque without any money. So if you want a higher cook, you hired a cook from the reliable pawn shop. First one we hired came up in the bus with a wrench of school children and he was dead drunk. And we had to put him away and let him sober up to go down with the kids. Well, yeah, go ahead. Well, those are great stores. We're going to run out of time. I want to talk about the tram. Yeah. How did that come about?

And when did you see the need for that? Well, in 1955, I went with Ernie Blake, with my wife and Ernie Blake. He was looking for his first chairlift at Touse. And we rode a lot of trams and did a lot of skiing. And I first, my first ride on tramways and we went to France, Switzerland and Austria. And then in 1960, again, I went to tramway and went to Switzerland this summer. And we rode tramways in Switzerland and France in the summer. And I decided and I talked to Ben and Max Flato. And we thought it would be a wonderful idea if the ski area and the tramway would be connected to Albuquerque as a year -round operation. First, we had to build a chairlift to the top, which we did

in 1960. We built a steadily chair to the top. And then we tried to raise money. Well, first we had to get a permit. And we had hearings on the permit. We finally got a permit from the Forest Service. And so then we had to raise money. And we got estimates from three tram manufacturers and decided on bell engineering. They had designed and built 50 tramways in Europe. So they gave us a bit of about a million for the equipment. And we figured the construction would cost another million. So we had to raise two million dollars. So we got all our ski friends. And I went around with Max Flato and Ben, a bruise. I would come with me in 1955. We went to Chamber of Commerce meeting and

showed pictures of trams that I had taken in Europe. And we had a lot of support among skiers. Now, I know you had a lot of obstacles to overcome, to get it finally built. Were people appreciative once it was done in Albuquerque? Oh, yes, yes. People were very appreciative. We had the governor, Governor Camo, was a great friend of ours in the mayor. And all the Chamber of Commerce people were on the first ride. And we had a big party up on top. The summit house was finished. And people thought, finally, it was built. And the people never thought it could. But people were very appreciative. And people loved it. You know, it's the only really view you get of those wonderful rocks you can't. You can walk the loose trail. But you don't see those wonderful rocks that you see. And all the marvelous views from there. And then to ride the chairlift, too. And I was quite an experienced

people. Well, you've made an incredible contribution to Albuquerque and to the winter sport of skiing. We made it for ourselves and our friends, because we got a lot of pleasure. I wanted to be able to ski 15 gold skiing 20 minutes from my house. But not only were you dealing with skiing, you were dealing with a lot of things. You have your law degree and you were interested in practicing Indian law in 1957. So you were dealing with a lot of issues about water rights. And I'm not sure what some of the other things. But how have you seen things change since you got the tram done. Since you were working with the Indian tribes for water rights. Well, I actually worked with the Indians before starting the trams. I got involved with an Indian land claim for the Hickory Apache tribes, which took us from 1957 to finally we got a $9 million award for the tribe in

1971. And then we got a $7 million settlement and accounting claim against the government in 1972. So they made its general counsel. And since then we've been doing all other things. We've been suing the government for all kinds of discrepancies in their accounting and everything else successfully. And it's been a very, it's very meaningful enterprise. Well, I'd like to get your perspective since you've been here for so long. And you've seen Albuquerque go through a lot of changes. What is your opinion on what is going on now with the water conservation that we're trying now to do after so many years? And also the sprawl of Albuquerque. Well, of course, I disagree with Mayor Baca on the

sprawl. It's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. Because down in the inner city development is almost impossible unless it's subsidized. And I don't think you can subsidize it enough to justify people with a lot of money. Building a hundred thousand or seventy five or a hundred thousand dollar house on a fifty thousand dollar lot. And you can go in the suburbs and get lots for twenty thirty thousand dollars where there are hundred and fifty two hundred thousand in the city. And you can get a house for a hundred thousand dollars on the west side. You can't get that in the city. But what they're going to have to do and what they've started to do is subsidize housing in the inner city. But I don't know whether we can afford to do it. But can we afford to continue to sprawl without worrying about the infrastructure, the existing infrastructure? No, no.

It's a very difficult problem, but they should have thought of it a long time ago. And again, the water problem is something that should have been addressed in 1962 when we got water from the city. The San Juan Jamba project, Albuquerque, is wasted over a million acre feet of water in the years between the dates. They could have engineered and accomplished a water system which they're now thinking about, which would inject water into the aquifer. Or if they started thinking about it and accomplished it in say 1975, they would have saved a million gallons of water. Then we wouldn't be worrying so much about our water. They let the San Juan Jamba water flow down, storing an elephant but we filed suit against the Bureau of Reclamation in the city. And the judge

upheld our contention that the city was wasting 93 % of its water through evaporation and elephant food. So it just used this exercise of the city. And they're not there starting planning to inject water into the aquifer. Is it too late? No, it's not too late but there's a lot of it gone. That's a lot of water for us. That's 300 ,000 gallons, 333 ,000 gallons is an acre feet. So how many times a million, how many acre feet have they wasted over the period of time? And you talk about city county consolidation. I was one of the organizers of the village of Los Ranchos. And the city was trying to annex everything in the North Valley and that was stopped by pretty much by the organization of the village.

And the county consolidation is fine. If the city will accommodate the county residents by letting them have horses and cows and not insisting on curb and gutter and the things that the county residents don't want. Maybe someday the city will realize that they have to accommodate country living. Well, New Mexico is a very rural state and I think that a lot of people are going to assist. But the city fathers don't realize that we have a lot of people who want to live in a rural environment. And I had 10 acres of Rio Grande Boulevard, I had horses, I had chickens, I had dirties, I had dogs and cats and everything. And I didn't and no curb and gutter and I didn't want to be, I didn't want to have curb and gutter and lose my horses and so forth. But we had, my family had cow and chickens in 12th and central when we moved here in 1912. But that was a long

time ago and there were no cows and chickens in Albuquerque now. Mr. Nordhaus, we're almost out of time. I just want to get your summation of, you're up here in this beautiful place. You've got a wonderful view of Albuquerque from your living room window. What do you think is the future of Albuquerque? What do you see happening to Albuquerque with the planning that is going on right now? Well, I think Albuquerque is going to continue to grow and I think there will be satellite communities like Rio Rancho, you know, with their own things. And then Los Lunas will grow this way. Albuquerque will go south. We won't grow north. The sand is. We can't go south any farther than the, it's let up Pueblo. And I don't know whether this is a Mesa project and that's a very expensive project and maybe it'll get off the ground, but I wonder. Well, Mr. Nordhaus, thank you so

much for your time. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.