Surviving Columbus; Sc71; Interview with Alex Seowtewa (Zuni Pueblo), Part 1

first I don't know why don't you tell me how to pronounce your name correctly let's go ahead it's an alphabet see out you it sounds and derives from the Hopi meaning holding flowers but I'm a full-blooded zoonian I don't have no other Indian blood in me how do you think you got that name well according to the little research that I inquired to my late auntie who died several months ago of old age that because I always wonder about the ending of that and she said that well I guess when my maternal grandfather was first born as a youngster the Hopi probably France came for some trading but before they

left my great grandparents requested for them to give a name to my grandfather which the name can see out there so he cared that as he grew up did I adopt it could you tell us how long have you been working on them you're also why you started to do them well I started this project in a year February 1970 because the renovation of this church took place from 1966 with excavation to 67 and then from 67 till 70 when they completed the renovation and you know the roof and everything and I was asked by this Catholic priest by the name of father Nazqraf who really made an effort with our president governor Lewis to

restore this he asked me to see if I could build in the confational which I started to build it on the bottom of this mission that sits on a left corner and my father walked in and my father was a natural gifted artist as well as he was a historian had of one of the medicine fraternities that he told me a lot of oral history of how this was being maintained by the people as well as the you know the ties of the pueblo itself with this Catholicism theoretically and lastly he suggested that there used to be murals existed here so with this idea on my way home I stopped at the factory and father Nazh haven't to be at this factory and told me I mean I told him but my father told me and he just

accepted right off the bat but I made a research and the old people that I contacted pretty well remembered when this was still had a roof back in late 1800s that they had utilized this I guess as a playground that these two individuals one was Mahu De and the other one was Long Keena they both pretty well remembered when they were in their childhood days that they used to witness some of the paintings that used to be on the bottom of the was on both sides of facing towards the altar and mostly they had this Puke Man type of Coco we call it Cachinas that were recorded all facing towards the altar so I made another research by contacting some others that were hundred and nine years old and they all seem to remember but I must have visited like 13 or 14 of these individuals my last survival died last spring months but I have

all of their names and I presented to the priest and he just gave me the green light so I started this project 21 years ago it'll be 22 next month February 1970 what were you trying to do with the murals well I have to learn in historically on my Indian side and I'm glad that the church accepted my main intention is kind of bring them up instead of just put up whatever it comes into my mind I would rather cover the cycle of our Indian identities in sequence give me some more information what do you mean cycle well we Indians just don't leave day to day we have the rituals we have certain time of a year that certain things happen like recently we observe for winter solstice which

is the beginning of a new year to Zuni pre-historically we had this and this occurred in a vicinity 22nd in of this December when winter starts which indicates the shortest day of the year in that vicinity we observe to kick off our year which we go through the 10 day fasting period and then from there I just put like way up on the north end of this wall way up front is the beginning of that area and then these are just the winter highlighted figures that are recorded on the north wall because North is cold with all the maces that we depict to put out in fact I'm working with my third oldest son Kenneth okay what are what are the figures on the south wall well south wall if you kind of do your study and to look way up front or left corner up above is the

beginning of the spring with dog ground as it comes towards this way between the two windows is the interpretation of summer as it move up towards where we are we I got into the area of fall and then there's a little fraction of snow to hit the late fall so three seasons is recorded on a south wall spring summer and fall with north wall it will cover four seasons south is one that I figured have put highlighted three seasonal ones on the south wall and on the south wall we also cover some of the things that comes every four years certain time of a year like the major initiation to the male members that usually was pretty active that usually comes a middle part of March every four years and then

there are certain things that comes in late fall or recorded where the fall area is so this is a pretty good preservation and documented project why what do you think this is important to the zoony people well it has to be recorded realistically because as a cultural practitioner like myself I often say if you know certain percentage of your identity I always say this is what money cannot buy and if you utilize your identity including your language you just go with peace and harmony with prosperity to treat your fellow members not looking at the color of a skin of people but to go with hand in hand with everything including your environment and I think this is the good solid

unique of our pueblo in their life all the way through history before October 2014 92 ever came around we carried this identity because of our unique setting like in our pueblo lifestyle like here in zoony we have this clan system which we inherit on our matrilineal side for life we carry our mother's clan presently we have 14 different clans like for instance my clan I'm a member of a San Hill crane and my wife is a member of a corn and we don't allow to marry somebody within our own clan because to avoid the Jesus practice but to respect our clan members as brothers sisters uncles mothers and fathers system and then there's another major part that we carry is key to us which is sort of like a fraternity a lot in American way

this is consist of men the only way you become a member is through the illness I mean through the initiation and you follow your godfather's Kiva which is set up in six two or six directions at the earth starting off with north west southeast upper regions in it and native you well tell the audience who doesn't know what's a Kiva Kiva is sort of like a large and we carry this system existence of to be the member we follow our godfather's Kiva so it's it's the mixture of clans where eventually we have we will be receiving all the privileges to carry and participate as a Kiva member whenever

religious activities do arrive that if we have time or we have to fulfill this commitment to participate like my Kiva I belong to the last to the bottom native Kiva because my godfather my godfather was a member to that let's go back again to your murals you also talked about other types of research you did with archaeologists in the excavation and going up to Chaco Canyon you talk a little bit about that well around these historic sites as you probably all have witnessed at Chaco Canyon Mesa Verde including some of our local dwellers around this area the village of Grig Kiva switch locates about eight miles southeast from our present side here are a lot of recordings of these early pictographs even pictographs from the earth pigment that our ancestors were

artists and certain symbols that they had recorded it's all for the educational thing that they relied on like for instance in Zuni we have this sun-prize in Zuni we call him Bequin Foo Term Bicci Ganata Bequin Shiva that's a long one and he reflected to certain symbol like spiral because they know exactly like for how to build in Chaco Canyon this is the recording that archaeologists as well as ethnologists recently discovered how they calculate their cycle they can pretty well tell when the shortest day of the year would occur as well as the longest day so they were pretty sophisticated as I grew up in this area my father who was a natural gifted artist as well as a

historian he shared some of these certain symbols with me that I really respect and carried on but now I'm engaged with this contemporary art but just reflecting to how our forefathers they were blessed with this gift to do art I'm sort of following the similar footsteps to do this intricate project with patients with confidence because self-taught that I'm an important person that I can fulfill what achievements that I can to share with others to help others especially my native young people so they'll be able to keep this historical thing to follow our ancestors' footsteps I think that's the whole beauty of Indian itself you talked about sharing and spirituality and

creativity as a part of the Indian perspective can you tell me that again well to just generalize the whole thing I'm accustomed to to this life that I'll be able to impress others what cultural reads traditions and costume that psychologically Indian has to feel for his own concept but he would fulfill from within sort of like a spiritual calling when he finds time he fulfilled this not to exploit not for exhibition but from within because at the end there's always a wrap up that we all process that we've done our part whoever we represent in order with our prayers in closing part that it be

that we will be blessed in a welfare of our own people too and the world I'm during the twenty-one I thought I had no I think I think you're doing fine I like your answers a lot the twenty-one years you've been working on this mural those have been a struggle for you to do it but this is can you tell me a little bit about this being a gift to the people well I often say why was I picked from among many good junior artists why me I didn't realize when I was growing up struggling I you know financially I've still been able to do but those are material things but to really adopt this great gift and put it into a good use it's years went by I utilized that idea to make my strong

point because if I feel for art or any creative object that I'll pick to create something into that certain form I have to refill relax feel calm so what I process to the final stage will turn out in beauty if it's a material which comes from the mother I have to totally respect if it's the feeling to execute my primary secondary colors I have to feel for it if I'm under buying mentally emotion emotions are not so so stable I have to put my act together I meditate by giving myself a time so this project what I had experienced last 21 years it's not easy but I have to be up on top with my thoughts my idealistic

lifestyle my feelings in order to fulfill then to tell you folks this is my first and last mural and I would never do it in other way I made the cut for a second okay you go back over the last question again you spent 21 years your life it's not been financially rewarding but it's been a gift can you talk to me about well in order to look on a positive side what needs to be done I have to really be more specific to do my level bass but I always have that great touch contact with my resource some of my own relatives are affiliated with certain religious or social office or just anybody that I go

over because they impress me they encourage me once in a while I let them come to visit me and implement more ideas what needs to be recorded so I have to be really be open consciously to work side by side with them because we have to utilize them in a way and they feel good and so fortunate to be right therefore my part is a backbone just like my own family my wife and my children and some others that comes by and I always feel that I need to really let this out also to help other native people or ethnic people ethnic groups can you for the people who don't understand what a kitchen is can you tell me what the figures represent in general and maybe a couple specifically well to

describe that thorough is we'll never get out of here but just whenever we fulfill to commit ourself to participate we just sort of put the deity in front of us the supernatural being that we are representing as a participant not to fulfill our own ego but to put them first plus our ancestors plus the whole world itself that exists coco cachinas so really it's all for the welfare of human so we will be taking care of and it's a sacrifice in thing to be when you're a participant it's pretty hard it's not easy okay now how why did you put Zuni religious figures in a Catholic church can you explore the

balance between Zuni religion and Catholicism for me first of all I had this great research that was given to me by my old people plus some early ethnologists write up like Frank Hamilton Cushion they came here to Zuni back in 1870s including Matilda Cox Stevenson that they both had it in their radops so they were this type of work existed when he was in actively use and again when I continually work on this little by little I had to really make it clearly interpreted because to have this great contact with my own people so whatever that doesn't have this type of knowledge about this work the reason

why I started inside the Catholic church but I kind of turn around and combine the similarities but the Catholic church maybe Christian informed church or Rick Orthodox the peace compels some of their similarities I'm combining as much with this work because this was existing pre-historically that adopting of this other non-denominational churches that we are now having here in our village we have to really I mean like my whole concept is just to blend the two similarities and as I recall the term when Pope visited the South was back in 1987 in Phoenix he encouraged the native audience to carry their language to carry their culture because I think some time back the Vatican

Council it sort of you know presented this to the especially to the native people so there's no difference and there I hope there won't be no opposition as I continue this project are you Catholic on my matrilineal patrilineal side for less 360 years since it was introduced I've made a family research on both my patrilineal matrilineal were adopted Catholics but they were also cured their cultural at you you don't see any conflict between that you see those talking about the same things basically well I just only have to emphasize my own on my point of view but to others there may be some that I expected because whatever we all do in this short period of life you can't please everybody you probably have some opposition with some things that

people don't fully understand your whole intention the reasons and purposes that goes with your effort so it's pretty hard and I know that I expect some of this were these the coutinas here before the church are these are constant journey history well it had some of this recording to the late 1800s so they probably when they first built this mission back in 1629 I imagine from that time on they probably had some but there wasn't that much of any recordings on a Spanish side only Pondras probably had some but during the Great Pueblo revolve back in 1680 August the 10th part of this mission was set on fire so part of the Spanish records were destroyed so maybe in some of these recordings they probably had some recorded but that's pretty unknown that I

don't know all except what I had gathered when I first started this the Quentin Tenerys coming up 500 years celebration of Columbus can you tell me what you think of it well I just have to tag alone that this is a historical year 1992 according to 1492 and I think as I could see and see a lot of events that are probably being planned to celebrate and again some percentage of it maybe displays into other areas but again I always feel what's done is done we can undo certain things from past but to learn from those things for future so I'll probably just be tagging along and be able to see what our

things would come out because maybe indirectly or so I'll be involved with some areas you had talked about how the words and teachings of your uncles or your grandfather of your ancestors had been very vital to you personally in your life could you tell talk to that issue well if you're gonna talk to the Zuni the children are Zuni could you talk to them about the importance of listening to one's elders and continuing the tradition I think that's one great way I sometimes go to hell left and right when certain class classes comes here or I've been invited to visit certain school side to tell them that according to my upbringing teaching that the life itself is a gift

which my grandfather told me my maternal grandfather was a high priest Oh man see how do I and he just make it so clear how I should really value my own life because I have to be in control with my own feelings thoughts emotions and you know he really brought me up because after my mother died when I was only five years of age I was under his care with my late auntie and her her husband they both died I was under good care that they emphasize how I should utilize my life for future I how I have to really go over the hump of this deep grief while my mother died certain questions that I had they sort of just put it out for me not to really think and live with that because it'll

distract my lifestyle so I know I have gone through a whole lot being an orphan was one of the hardest but I had made it and recently well I'm 58 years of age so this is what I always emphasize that life is too short it is precious that we don't know when our time would come and even my aging grandfather taught me the value of this reincarnation that life just doesn't end when this first stage goes there's another world another third world fourth world think that we all had to go just like we emerged from the fourth underworld each stages of the world that we came up to the surface of this mother earth so this is a similar thing the recreate reincarnation in

Zuni so really sometimes when I explain the meaning of life I wish it was all honey but part of things that makes death problems nature that we sometimes take and fully understand but there's a lot of reasons why we had to go but at this time in age I think we've been affected left and right all over not only here in Zuni the abuse of air co-haul drugs economically but I've been affected by that if do I return from service during tree and war but without my upbringing teaching if I'd eat trace how I was brought up I probably could have killed myself with air co-haul years and years ago because that's the

great turning thing that I learned in my whole life for 38 years that that I haven't patched the drop it took me three hours to cut to that turning point okay