Focus 580; Documentary Film Making

Welcome back to the second hour focus 580 our morning talk show my name's David inch glad to have you with us producing the program Harriet Williamson and Travis Stansell Mike Pritchard is at the controls this morning tomorrow in the 10 o'clock hour we'll be talking with David Maraniss He's a Pulitzer Prize winning editor works at The Washington Post will talk about a new book that he's written that looks at Vietnam both of the war in Vietnam and what a lot of people have called the war at home and then looking specifically trying to look at the story by taking a look at two events in part of the book he follows a group of soldiers the battalion called the Black Lions and a particular battle that they fought in October of 1967 and then it also looks at another event October of 67 which was a riot at University of Wisconsin at Madison there. When student protester tried to stop Dow Chemical the maker of napalm from recruiting on the campus he tells these stories in his book they marched into sunlight War and Peace Vietnam in America October 1967. We'll talk about that tomorrow morning at 10:00 also in the second hour. The guest is Maurice Leo Barroso professor of law and Brazil and is an

important adviser to the Government will talk about politics in Brazil. He's going to be on the campus tour. We're here weekday mornings from 10:00 to noon 10 different topics every week. We always welcome your questions and comments in this part of focus 580 we will be talking with documentary filmmaker Frederick Marx who is probably best known for a film that he worked on called Hoop Dreams. He was the editor and also one of the producers of where a group of guys who made this movie a family got a lot of positive attention has had theatrical release was shown on PBS. It won the Audience Award at the Sundance Film Festival as the highest grossing nonmusical documentary film in U.S. history and has won a lot of awards been very well received by a lot of film critics. He also received an Emmy nomination for hire girls for best they time children special in 1903. He's here visiting the campus and we'll talk about some of his work Hoop Dreams and also some more recent projects that he has been

involved in all of them dealing with the theme of American adolescence. He's going to be giving a talk in the Miller com series and that will be tonight at 7:30 in the Levis a faculty center on the campus and all of these programs always Nilekani programs are always free open to the public. Anybody who is interested should certainly if you're welcome to attend and hear on the program if you have questions you'd like to talk with our guest 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 here in Champaign Urbana toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Well thanks very much for being here. My pleasure. Appreciate it. Before we get started I should probably correct one small OK. Our film is now since far been surpassed at the box office by Bowling for Columbine. Which is I think the last I heard over the 30 million dollar mark for box office receipts and even we had migration just squeaked past hoop dreams recently so we're now you know in the third and dropping spot.

Well you know I mean if you're among the top five for a documentary I'd say it's well worth acknowledging because you know as you were here talking about before we got going I have to say we should all be about to documentary filmmakers for people who are willing to who have who have the drive to try to make them and who are willing to go through everything involved and first of all trying to get the money to make them which is becoming harder and harder and then getting them out there so people can see them. It's a being a documentary filmmaker is not it's not an easy thing. No it isn't and it's always amazing to me when I meet young people who say that that's exactly what they aspired to be. And I I do my best to try to awaken them to the realities of the life I had so at the same time I don't want to discourage them at the same time I want to make them realize that you know it's not an easy life in store for you so you have to have a great deal of what I would call a crazed passion in order to do it. Hoop Dreams grew from a relatively small project into this multi-year enterprise that it became when you started out you just had this idea of

doing something a short documentary about kids who were recruited. To actually recruited to play high school basketball. Well not exactly. Just the short documentary part is exactly right I mean we had it in mind to do a half hour program that we hoped PBS might broadcast at some point but we were more interested in the playground game and exactly how the culture of the playground game was in effect informing the sport as a whole particularly all the way up through the NBA. But you know the original plan called for actually something similar to what higher grounds later became the half hour of what I call the stay in school version of hoop dreams but we wanted to look at three different tiers if you will of the basketball system and one was going to be a high school player actually a grammar school player who was making that transition into high school ball which later became hoop dreams with the stories of William Gates and Arthur Agee. But we also wanted to look at

two other stories and sort of distinction with that story and we had and initially. I researched and found skep Dillard who was a former DeParle University player in the early 80s during the Paul University's big heyday in basketball when they were ranked number one in the NCW way. And. I wanted to tell a story of a player who was on the cusp of somebody who hadn't made it to the NBA but came close. And then we also one of the top down perspective if you will somebody who had achieved all of the glory and all of the success that NBA can make possible. And so we had it in mind from the beginning to tell Isaiah Thomas a story from St. Joseph's high school outside of Chicago who later went on to Detroit Pistons success. So we wanted those three stories in effect to kind of contextualize in a way the culture of the playground game and how it as I said had informed the changing of the whole sport.

So how was it then that you really got caught up in the lives of the characters of these two young men that that's because of them just because you happened to meet them. That's what. I ended up being that the story that it OK. Yeah well it was a couple of different factors I mean one was yes it's true that the stories of the two young men became so interesting that we thought you know right let's just follow the stories and that will be sufficient in and of itself. It wasn't until about a year and a half into what became a friend a half year shooting period and a seven year production process as a home for the film. It was somewhere about a year and a half two years into it that I came to the realization that we need to split off the products that we can have to finish products from the same project. And and that one would be closer to our original vision which would sort of serve. Partly would serve the African community African-American community to

help inform community people particularly youngsters about the not the dangers but the pitfalls of not balancing their love of basketball with academics. So that's what higher grounds became And then as I said you know with the two stories of the young man sort of taking off and being as strong as they were there was a kind of an editorial drive of its own to make her dreams become something different just about the two of them. And it was also I have to say you know talk about the realities of documentary filmmaking I mean one important one was the fact that we didn't have any money. And so we started this project with 20 I think twenty two hundred dollars and that's all we had for the first two to three years. So. The reality quickly became that we had enough money to buy tapes. Fortunately we were all working for free and our third eventual partner Peter Goldberg came on

board and not only volunteered his time but he volunteered his beta gear so that we could shoot the film for free in a high quality format. But we didn't have the money to stop and finish it because you know finishing costs being what they are in the end the film and video production business. Twenty two hundred dollars wouldn't cover it. So they found ourselves in a kind of odd position that we could in effect produced a film indefinitely for next to nothing but we could never stop and finish it. So so that was part of what informed our decision to go on to follow the two young men all the way through high school because we figured hey at the end of four or four and a half years we've got to have raised enough money to finish this film and in fact that's exactly what happened. So while how much did it cost. Well the final cost once we blew it up to 35 millimeter and got it on screens across the country was close to about $750000 which you know compared to your average Hollywood film would buy you know the trailer for your major star for the course of a three months

production I'd be about it here. So you shot this on video of the finished product is close to three hours long. How much did you how much did you shoot. How many hours did you have. We shot about 150 hours and that's partly why I spent the better part of two and a half years in the editing room. Toward the end of the project. Not that I was a solo editor but I was along with Steve we were the primary and editors my partner Steve James so. You know it took an awful long time to edit the film and in fact the you know the real storytelling only emerged in that process of the editing I mean with all of the material that we had there would have been numerous stories that could have been told from the same material in fact one of my fantasies has always been there. I'd love to turn the raw footage over to you know the the National Library of Congress or something and see if there were any other filmmakers out there who were interested in making a different film from the same raw footage I would love to see what different films

might come of it. I would expect a probably significant number of people who are listening have seen the movie but for people who haven't Can you just give them the thumbnail sketch of what what who the story that hoop dreams dealt you know the story is basically four and a half years in the lives of two young African-American boys from inner city Chicago. Arthur Agee and William Gates we followed them from the time that they had just finished eighth grade in the summer prior to going into ninth grade and into high school. And interweaving lives their fortunes on the basketball courts as they play for their different high school coaches. The fortunes of their families. So we meet their mothers fathers siblings. We get to know their coaches very well and at the same time we also track their academic progress because we were very curious to see how they would succeed in life as young men and not just how they would succeed as basketball players.

Neither of them ever had that a playing in the NBA. That's correct. But if you set that aside yes this question well two to date. How have they succeeded as people how how have they done. Well I'd say Very well I mean it's been a couple years since I've talked to Arthur or the A.G. family but I'd have to say by just about any standard they've done very well. And you know in a in a in a small way our film has contributed to that success because it was it helped them get a leg up that once they were finished with their college careers there were a lot of doors that were open to them partly because of the fame of the film. But you know they're remarkable. Young people and it's just one of the many strokes of good fortune that we have that we were able to work for such a long period of time with such giving and caring and lovely people. That's what I try to do with every film that I undertake particularly with

documentaries but doesn't always work out that way that you meet such a good heart so they're doing very well. Our guest in this part focus 580 is Frederick Marx. He is an independent filmmaker has been nominated for both Academy and Emmy awards he was one of the makers of the film Hoop Dreams has some other projects that deal with some of the same sorts of themes that won't talk about here in this part of the show. He's here visiting in Champaign-Urbana and will be giving a talk in the Miller column series on the campus tonight. So if you'd like to hear more from him you can do that he'll also be showing I think some clips from some of the more recent projects exact and questions are welcome 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. One of the one of the themes in this movie or one of the things that the movie deals with Hoop Dreams is is there there are these two young men these two inner city guys that Teller for basketball and being recruited to play for this Catholic High School which was not their neighborhood school. And one of the themes that runs through this and its not real pretty is. Kids like that who have a talent for sports being

recruited for the sport by a school who wants to have good teams and there's some question about their commitment to these young men as students. In fact I think that the school felt it was being proposed trade in an unfavorable light they weren't real happy about it I think actually they even tried. The school tried to stop the film from being distributed. Yet they sued us. They tried to I mean yeah yeah well I don't know whether to jump into that. I mean there's you know it was it was a shocking revelation to me when I began working on this film to see exactly how much the corruption if you will of the collegiate level which is something that we're all familiar with and in this day and age of how you know colleges have to aggressively recruit players to get to play for their teams. How that had taken one major step down the ladder to high schools and that high school coaches were also feeling some of the very same pressures that a lot of college coaches feel that their their jobs and their careers and their futures are on the

line and that they were going out and having to aggressively recruit players to play for their teams. Now this is not a universal phenomenon clearly across the country but it does exist and I think it probably exists predominantly in urban areas. But one of the things that I hope that the film actually made clear is that you know one of the strong things to me about documentary film and one of the things that attracts me to it is that I get a chance to portray people in three dimensions and it's very important to me to be able to do that because I'm not interested in traditional what I might call Hollywood storytelling Good Guys and Bad Guys I think I find the world the real world far too complex and interesting for that kind of a superficial statement so I don't like to think that coach Jean Ping a tour of St. Joseph's high school him and Kevin O'Neill who is the coach of the Marquette warriors who ended up recruiting William Gates to play for their college team at Marquette University

are pro-trade in a in a rounded fashion that we get to see that some of the pressures that are placed on them in turn reverberate downward to some of their players so that you know they in a way are caught in the system as well it doesn't mean that they're not. To be held accountable for their own choices. Clearly they are but but this you know that they are in effect part of this greater machinery that exists in this country which is you know a sport's economic machine. So that's not something that's easy for any single person I think to step outside of and say No I'm not going to participate in it. Well that still seems the you know the idea that you could you could be the next whoever you know you fill in the blank Isaiah Thomas Michael Jordan Lebron James you know whoever you're going to be the next superstar. That's a I'm sure the poll that is so powerful and at that point

you know probably you it's easier to believe in yourself and how good you are and you know maybe among the people that you play against him play with you're the standout guy. And it must be a really really powerful force and I don't know how anybody really could resist that. Yeah but to me it reflects a poverty of cultural choices that exists in our social landscape I mean you know sure that a given kid might be the best player on the team and might be a standout in his or her community. You know as a player but. The very fact that they're singled out you know due to their excellence on a basketball court for example is as only an indication of what the culture determines is of of of importance. I mean right why don't we have you know chess players or you know science whizzes who are getting the same kind of write ups and pictures and front page stories about them that basketball and other sports athletes are you know these are

again parts of the choices that we make as a culture so in an absolute sense you know I would like to see that there's all kinds of other opportunities that are afforded some of these same kids. But unfortunately the message that they receive all too clearly is there ain't any. And this is your only way to succeed. Let me just I want to get a telephone number again in case there is people who have questions comments they want to be here or involved in the conversation. If you're here in Champaign-Urbana where we are 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 we also have toll free line that's good to anywhere that you can hear us that he's 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. And once again our guest this morning Frederick Marx he's an independent filmmaker involved in a number of documentaries and probably the best known film hoop dreams he's here visiting and will give a talk tonight on the campus and I guess again in a little bit I'll tell you but more about that at least I'll give you that the time and the location. I'm interested in hearing about some of the these two other projects that you have been involved in

that explore some of the same sorts of themes that you know of that is the themes of coming of age in America particularly the idea of initiation and the fact that we don't really have that in a contemporary society. We don't have those things that that young men go through that marks this transition between being a boy and being a man. What what about that interest you. Everything. I don't know where to start. You know this there's so much of the last 10 years of my life that it has pointed me in this direction to make this this next film that I want to make which is the working title of which is new American heroes which is about going to be about 15 year old boys five or six of them who are going to be different across race age class and geography they'll be in different cities of the country.

They'll also have different domestic situations. You know one might be have a single parent might one might have double parents in the home one might be an orphan and they will go through some different form of initiation. And the paradigms of those initiations will all be different as well. And you know it's really for me is the some nation of a lot of just what I've learned from the making of hoop dreams but also from my own personal growth work that I've done over the last few years that I just find that it's amazingly important for all young people and not just boys by the way but my focus has been primarily on boys to become initiated that we as an elder generation need to. Take responsibility for helping young people cross this threshold into maturity into adulthood and we have abandoned that responsibility in my view in the last 50 to 100 years. And that's something that we

see the detriment of in all aspects of society who see kids who Wow I thought I would argue that we see it in politics and business as much as anywhere we see kids really men who are playing out their delayed adolescence in adult form that you know the. Because partly because of the fact that they were not properly initiated into adulthood. They're living out their suspended adolescence. So you know in the forms that it takes in society through dysfunction of you know alcoholism or domestic violence or just about any anything you want to name I think can be attributed at some level to this transition that we're not helping these young people through with color somebody who's on the road calling the cell phones I want to get them on our line for you know. They're there hear me.

Yes I'm sorry. I'm glad to hear you're Yes. Say something about not only. Boys and I certainly hope that Hollywood and. Other media portray girls young girls a little bit more than they did when my you. I'm a physician and I happen to transition during that time and succeed. If I had all those negative things that a girl can do. Yes. It's not popular to be smart in those kind of things. I'm very fortunate I had very supportive parents. But you know what. Society does not do it well I don't girls who are smart and sexy either. Would you agree. Absolutely I mean we still live in a largely patriarchal society and you know men dominate. And there's no doubt about that. But you know my my focus I mean like I said you know I I want to advocate initiation and

mentorship I should mention as well for both boys and girls I think it's absolutely essential but my focus and interest has just been primarily boys that's all there's a number of great women filmmakers out there who can and will make similar films about girls. I don't I don't think there's much emphasis put on that and certainly in Hollywood there's not much emphasis on portraying women in more than a secondary role and most of the films that they portray I mean. When I grew up that supportive role for women who were you know you the woman shrieking in the car your mom think your uncle would you know attack whatever and I can remember the first well you know I was just really cool was alien but it corny Reaver because she you know she really checked the area and she was the hero. I know that. Yeah well I agree with you. I mean it's I think that

you know the Hollywood films that are made in this day and age also do not offer enough substantive roles to especially older women to begin to you know relates some of what that experience is like in the culture in a positive way. You know my own personal view is that I don't know that it's a big step forward to see you know women taking up guns and hand grenades and starting to blow up the bad guys you know to take them out of the hands of men and doing that themselves and I'd like to think of it as a lot more things that as a culture that we can explore in terms of storytelling. If you do it at all. He let me watch with a nearby community here just recently added. I wish the scholars and all the straight-A student a letter just read you a letter jacket for a financial aid and of course they

turned that down there are a lot of parents that were for that as well as it was not eating one thang. Now you know even our society does not treat Appalachia and our ship Whatley. Exactly. You know I just returned to this issue though of boys and girls in school I think I'd be remiss if I didn't note that you know it is interesting to know all the statistics that I've read on the subject in the last 10 years I mean bullies up until they graduate from high school are actually doing worse relative to girls and just about any statistical category boys are under 18 are nine times more likely to be violent for example than girls. Boys who abuse drugs and alcohol more boys are doing worse in school. And the differential with girls in science and math is decreasing so meaning girls are actually

gaining and will soon equalize out with boys and science and math and trailing girls in terms of performance in reading and writing skills and that disparity is actually growing. Blazer diagnosed learning disabled I double the rates of girls four times the rates of girls for emotionally disturbed. And it's six times that rate for a DD. They're put on medicines like Ritalin and Prozac at far higher rates than girls are and girls and also dominate every non-sports related high school activity student council crab's yearbook etc.. So it's very interesting you know that this cultural trend I mean it's something that we need to be aware of that. And the reason I bring Ali statistics out is not to in a way you know make it a zero sum game that whatever the gains that feminism has gratefully brought us in the last 15 or 20 years that you know finally we're just we're giving girls their due

in the attention that they've long deserved and needed. All I'm doing is trying to say that it's not a zero sum game that we also need to give special attention to brights as boys and that they're actually fairing pretty poorly. Up until high school now again post high school it's still largely a man's world out there and they are earning you know still almost half again as much as women etc. etc.. Let me introduce Again our guest we're a little bit past the midpoint of the second hour focus 580 We're talking with filmmaker Frederick Marx. He was one of the team that made the film hoop dreams. He was nominated for an Academy Award for editing for that. He also received an Emmy nomination for higher goals for best daytime children's special. He's here visiting in Champaign-Urbana going to give a talk in the Miller com series that's tonight at 7:30 at the Levasseur faculty center on the campus. And it is free and open to the public anybody who is interested can attend. He will be talking about some of his work and the themes in the work. I'll show some clips from Hoop Dreams and another film that we haven't mentioned one

titled Boyz to Men. And then also he'll be talking about this new project that he's working on new American heroes which is a study of six 15 year old boys from six different cities who are different across race and class and culture and other sorts of things as questions are welcome. 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 2 2 2 9 4 5. Certainly there are societies where the they do have initiations into manhood where there is some kind of a ceremony that happens that marks the transition. But there are of course there's more to it than just it's not just a ceremony. What is also got to be involved in there at some point as for men is some instruction on what what are the what's the role of a man how do men behave what's girls they need what what what is all in volved in that it's not just saying OK today you are a man. How how in our society how in a Western industrial society would you do something like that.

Well there are people who are doing it and there's lots of different ways you can do it. And I don't think that any one way is best in fact I think ideally. You know let me back up a second and say that you know traditionally rites of passage like Catholic confirmations and bar mitzvahs were meant to have significance they were meant to have you know deep meaning. To mark this transition in time for these young people. But for whatever reasons a lot of these different rites of passage has have lost a lot of their meaning and significance but ideally I think for each young person that initiation would be in keeping with that person's spiritual cultural tradition whatever that look like so for example you know if you're if you're a Native American you know the Native Americans for hundreds of years have done vision quest as kind of an initiation ritual for their young

people where traditionally the elders would prepare and then take young people out into the forest or the desert or some remote location and then for three days those people would go fasting on their own in search of a vision to help clarify the meaning of their lives. So that's just one I mean out of Asia we have a tradition of them on the ass take retreat to where people sit in meditation for sometimes months if not even years. In Africa and parts of Asia as well the big game hunt could mark that passage as an initiation for a young person you know where he or she is given. When I was predominantly he's But given a spear or some you know rudimentary weapon and you know made to go out and to bring home a big animal. So these are just historically some of the different ways that you know these transitions have been accomplished but

you know in this day and age obviously a lot of these things don't make much practical sense so. You know one of the groups that has helped me define some of these issues it has also moved me along in my own life is a group called the ManKind Project which has taken this historical notion of initiation and sort of brought it into contemporary times so that you know we don't go out into the jungle and hunt game hunt the biggest game that at this point in our evolution as a as a species makes sense to hunt which is. Our own shadow selves if you will our own darkness. So you know in a 48 hour weekend workshop what we do is we introduce men to their own darkness that they may not have been willing to accept in the past and in bringing them to the depths of their being in this way which is exactly what

these other exercises would do but in different means you know at the end of this period of time hopefully that man emerges as a very clear headed self-knowing and also a man who has a sense of direction about what his purpose in life is and how he can serve and integrate himself with his community. These are all functions of initiations in the past. And that's part of why I think our fabric as a community is breaking down is because we don't do these anymore. What song would someone else listening here or a line one. Hello. Hi. Thank you. Yeah I'm glad to hear you talking about transition to adulthood. I have a son who is getting ready to turn 16 next week and it is something that's been on my mind a lot and he's going to be he's planning some traveling some extensive traveling and that I hope I get that that's going to serve as a step for him and his growing

process and something that we can prepare. Foreign and hell go out in jail and he can come back and we can talk with him about it and he can go do some more. But something else that I wanted to mention that I think happens is that parents pretty much turned their children over to the school system it seems to me and take it seems to me that a lot of people kind of still like and monitor children are following what their school is telling them to jail and what the teachers are telling them to do it and they're doing what's right when the teachers aren't that much really looking at particularly each individual kid and I know some of their attention for good reasons and and probably for problem reasons they're not really thinking about the development of each individual child often and they might only see them for an hour a day at the most. But I think a lot of families have the idea that the school is taking charge of their children's development as well. Listen children are following the problem at the school. They're doing

what they're supposed to do Get ready to go out in the world and I I wondered if you had any comments on that. Well I agree with you I mean I think that it comes from. Well I'm not sure where it comes from but I think that parents are. Not accepting their own responsibility at some level for helping their own children accomplish this transition when they rely exclusively on public schools to do it. You know I mean I think historically at least in Western culture you know schooling meant mentorship that men mentorship or you would attach yourself to a mentor and you would either learn a trade from them and or life skills. And you know now that we have public schools with you know masses of kids and it's all kind of a streamline assembly format and a lot of ways and you know a lot of times I don't question whether it's not

more about socialization and control than it is about education. You know you don't get any of that. So but I you know I would suggest that that there's an awful lot that parents can do in addition to. Or instead of what kind of lessons their children are learning in public schools. Oh yeah I think I think they can and a lot do you know a lot have very strong relationships with their children and everything but it just seems to me like you. There's also there's just a lot of families where they just figure that the school is doing it or doing most of it even and even with you know strong relationships at home just the sort of idea that all you have to really do is follow the program of the school and you're ready and they're not very individual right and I think they are much more about control than they are

really about development and wrong. Yeah and again I think parents are just says you know sloughing off the responsibility at some level and they're looking to have the government do it also at some level with you know laws regulating internet usage and you know laws regulating programs on televisions I mean my God you know whatever happened to a parent you know sort of taking control over that relationship with ur youngster and determining those things together. But you know there's. Well did you want to say something. Well you know I I well. Something did happen in my mind. I think that's true I think that that that we and we have gotten more and more accustomed to the idea that they're going to do that but I know for example on my children went to public schools elementary school and then after that they've they've mostly been home schooling and pretty much out of their own choice I mean we do it on a year by year evaluation and it's something that they've wanted to do.

But when we when we were in the public school system and even when I looked at like our local middle school there was very much a sense of you know we we we make the structure I mean a school that attitude was you know we'll tell you what's going on I mean they say they want parental involvement but I think it's more like they want parental support. And it's it's very much an institution thing kind of operation with and and I and I. Don't want to attack teachers I know they're under a lot of pressure to do pretty much impossible thing. I don't think that they get the kind of support in schools could be wonderful if they were supported in knowing they should be but I Graydon's that being a kind of institution think I think also because they're under this kind of crunch that that that outcome ends up being that they're the institution and we don't feel comfortable in challenging them. So people just kind of go along with what they're doing.

Just partly because I notice that we're going to be out of time before too long I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest that there are some things that we can all do as adults whether we have children ourselves or not and whether we do them with our own children or not in fact in some ways it's almost more important to do it with somebody else's children than your own. But. You know in my experience of working with young people acknowledging their value and their worth is just immeasurably important. I mean seeing them and simply acknowledging their value in whatever simple ways that you can do that like I see the goodness in you I see how hard you tried. And I bless you for your effort. You know thank you for being patient with your sister I'm proud of how you took responsibility for Mr. Smith's broken window next door. Thank you for helping your brother with his homework. You know little things like this are in effect blessings for young people and that's part of the responsibility that we have as an older generation have abdicated. We are

not blessing our younger people and they are desperate for it they're absolutely hungry for it in every way shape and form so this is something that is so simple to do to just take 30 seconds you know to acknowledge a young person and say I see the goodness in you and I want to let you know about it. And even if they don't light up and smile and thank you. Believe me in their hearts they are smiling and thanking you. I want to thank. I mean. Thank you so much I've really enjoyed listening to you this morning. Thanks. Thanks for the call. We have about seven eight minutes left in this part of focus with Fred Marks he's a documentary filmmaker. He was one of the team that made the film Hoop Dreams and then has done a couple of others dealing with the theme that he's very interested in and that's the importance of initiation and mentor ship for teenage boys. He'll be giving a talk on the UVA campus tonight. I'll get the details one more time. Questions welcome 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 2 2 2

9 4 5 5 1 just as we finish up here just to return to talking a bit about hoop dreams. The year that hoop dreams was eligible for an Academy Award it was nominated for editing but it wasn't it wasn't nominated in the documentary category. And I know a lot of people particularly a lot of film critics who thought it was a good film. Guys like Roger Ebert and Gene Siskel a lot of others prominent critics said there's something wrong with this for the fact because the film wasn't even nominated in the documentary category and they really said to the academy you need to change the way you think about documentary films when it comes to that to the time for the awards has that do you think has that changed. Well it has changed but it's not wholly for the better. Unfortunately there have been a number of changes that have been instituted in the past. There was. Largely a kind of a private cabal of people outside of the L.A. area who had been on this documentary nominating committee who weren't

necessarily even documentary filmmakers who took it upon themselves to determine which films would be in effect and affect the nominees. Now it's been taken out of their hands which is a marvelous positive step and it's now in two different committees in New York and L.A. comprised exclusively of documentary filmmakers who take on the task every year of analyzing the potential nominees and then determining that list. But there are some things that have actually risen on it to the detriment of documentary filmmakers in the past. You were able to screen your film and some of the primary film festivals in the country like Sundance New York Film Festival Toronto and others. And by virtue of the screening you are eligible for. Documentary you know Academy Award nomination. But in fact now that's no longer the case. And in fact what you have to do you

have to screen your film for one week in a commercial theater in either Los Angeles or New York in order to be eligible. Has to have a theatrical it has to have at least actual release so on top of all of the already insurmountable burdens that each documentary filmmakers facing in making a film now in order to get eligible you have to also arrange for a screening and have a play for a week which is no small feat believe me. Ok we get one more caller here we have a caller in on line number for the low. Good morning I am joining you're very much. Mark I wanted to say I'm a senior. I'm 91 and I've lived a long time and I remember my high school days and my early days. But the thing that I've noticed through the years is that bodies are not given any information like girls the book Body. I fell and when I've worked at that I've worked. Need to be a schoolteacher and I've worked with young people in

churches and that sort of thing and that with gangs and I went through the years in different cities not a new person and the thing that I found if they do not understand as they reach puberty or even preach Reverdy how their bodies are working and so they can understand what's happening to them and I think I have a feeling that if they're given because I've talked to a couple of young boys you know about their age with their parents and of their parents and just had casual conversations and saying that I didn't think boys were really informed what their basic problems were as they're growing up and their bodily functions. And I thought it was very important and the other thing is there that just at that age isn't the only time that young people need help. I had a friend whose son went to college and one of the air Nowlan I and he had been raised in a church and was a nice guy and just a normal boy. But you know I'm not

a religious guy. Well because he didn't go along with the boys in the dorm were doing and it fit in with them. They called him gay and he was terribly upset. So he had to be moved out there that or that school but then I find the two young boys and young girls but when girls get to be at the age of 22 to 24 they're still in need. I know for myself you still need a mentor. Mentors are so important and if older people would only come out and work with boys and girls and so you've got young men in your family young boys your family if you're a woman you can still do talk to them and I think it's nice ways to give them some assistance. I agree 100 percent I mean I mentor some young people in their 20s and in their 30s and I'll be 48 in a couple days I have two or three mentors that I call regularly at least once a week so it's never too late to

get the guidance and wisdom of older more experienced folk. I also love your point about the body. You know our culture says that so many send so many messages to young boys you know boys don't cry don't be a sissy this and that the other and we teach boys to be in effect in their heads and in effect out of touch with their bodies and it's of course in their bodies that feelings that emotions reside. And it's through initiation that we can actually begin to teach young people our facility around their emotions so that they learn what it is to feel fear or to feel anger or to feel sadness and yet to have facility in dealing with them so they don't act out of them. I'm consciously but they learn to contain them and experience them in healthful ways that don't frighten them and that they won't be running away from for the rest of their lives. That's really important. Well there we're going to have to finish up for people who are going around Champaign-Urbana if you're interested in hearing more from our guest Frederick Marx talking about some of his film work and these themes that we've

discussed he'll be giving a talk in the Miller series to men the necessity of initiation and mentor ship for teenage boys that's the title tonight at 7:30 on the third floor of the Levis faculty center on the UVA campus. It's on West Illinois this is in the Miller com series. And there are always these programs are always free open to anybody who would like to attend so if you're interested you should stop by and of course if you haven't seen hoop dreams you could go down to wherever you rent your videos and DVDs and you should be able to have a night on DVD Unfortunately that's not on DVD now. Hopefully soon. But if we have those of you who still have VCR you can rent it and see if they will thanks very much. My pleasure.