Focus 580; October Surprise

The American elections took place in October of 1980. We will be talking with the author of a book that makes the case that it in fact that did happen. The book is entitled October surprise which was the designation of the people in the Reagan Bush campaign gave to the possibility that the hostages would be released before the election. They were very concerned that there would be the October surprise of the hostages would be freed and that that would guarantee a victory by then President Jimmy Carter the author of the book is Barbara hunger as she is currently a private research analyst in California in 1080 following her experience as a research associate a research assistant rather at the Hoover Institution at Stanford. She joined the Policy Research Team of the Reagan Bush campaign in one thousand eighty she was part of the Reagan Bush transition team and one thousand eighty one she worked in the White House Office of Policy Development as a research and policy analyst. Her book is just recently published by tooter books. October surprise again is the title

and Barbara Hunter is talking with us this morning by telephone as we talk. If you have questions they are welcome. Our local number here is 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. We also have the toll free line which is good anywhere you hear us and that number is 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 3 3 3 WRAL. Eight hundred to 2. To WY Hello Ms honor Hello good morning David. Thank you very much for talking with us today. Well I'm glad you clubbed First of all I'd like to ask what it was that began your your research into this story what got you started thinking about this. Well actually there were there was a confluence of events I maternalistic by decreeing from Africa diversity of communication and writing so I was I was the catalyst before I went and you know the political play of my life and what I left out I think I can 83 I returned to research and

writing. I really started suspecting that something was wrong of course the moment that are 52 hostages. Were released literally as Ronald Reagan completed his oath of office. Wright who would go if you will. I felt that something was just right or wrong if you will but I didn't I didn't really believe that there was tangibly something that had been done behind the scenes to affect that timing. That might have connection with the Contra affair in particular being a glance out of the affair and the wrong kind of revelation started becoming public and really I began on this quest that resulted in the book October surprise upon reading a very public page article in The Washington Post it was dated November 29 1986 which if you'll recall was just a few days after Ed Meese stood in the White House press room

and revealed the shocking first revelation about the scandal and what that article revealed. Beverly but I sat from the period of time that I was actually in the Reagan Bush campaign headquarters that the article revealed on the front page of The Washington Post that a man who I knew pretty well then his name is Dick Allen Richard Allen is his full name. He was Ronald Reagan's chief foreign policy and some of your listeners will remember Dick Allen became the first. National security adviser to President Reagan in the White House of twenty one thousand one this article Movil that Dick Allen and also Robert McFarlane who later became the center but right at the center of the Iraq controversial ation of the Iran-Contra negotiations with Iran that these two men had met and only October of 1998 hit Washington D.C. if he could leaving one

of the Iranian arms dealer who represented him. As representing the club and everything offered and the arms for hostages deal in such a way he said as to ensure President Carter's to meet every Reagan Bush Republican victory. That was really the beginning. As I read that article in The Post and a subsequent article about the buying of me I read a paper across the country I had a clipping service that was sending me articles. They also started appearing in banking seven articles in The New York Times by fluke the Paris correspondent and many other papers including page one column one of the only times that there were reports of the go sanctions subsequent to that early meeting. The experience that I had back in the 1980 voted Bush campaign clicked. And with

that Washington Post article because I had been told by a campaign staffer in the most secure room of the donkey Reagan Bush could have been called the operations center in the lead up to the liking that Dick had cut a deal and we didn't have to worry about of October surprise this was in the context of in celebrating an atmosphere that was happening. And for those of us in the campaign at the time this was an tremendous shock because as early as mid September of 1980 the camping atmosphere had been one of maximum tension even paranoia as it was called by some of the reporters that cover that I couldn't wait to go skipping the 1980 will get. First campaign had to learn as early as August about it. That if President Carter think that finally brought our 53 hostages of Iran it would have held the U.S. embassy there for all

of a minute. But if you succeed in bringing them home you know October which was what with called an October surprise if we could show that Reagan and Bush critic that kind of pressure and that Carter would win for sure because the public would have to have a temperate climate like gratitude. But well so do you think the two of them that started started me on my own research quest if you will. And of course there are a lot more evidence that I'm sure you want to talk about. Well it seems that one of your I think one of your best sources is this man this Iranian born arms dealer who says that he was the emissary from the government of Iran who met with the Reagan-Bush people including McFarlane in a Dick Allen in October of 1980. You talked with this man personally you met with him and he told you that in fact he went there to make a deal saying Right you know if he has actually met with

a number of terror analysts have gone on the record he that videotaped interview. And I said thank you for the record at the end my book that this is this a repeat of meeting a Washington think of early October 1980. Well he offered the arms for hostages swap to the Reagan-Bush King and this is big this meeting of the day and I want to put a gallon. It's been acknowledged by Robert McFarlane to acknowledges having set up the meeting with the Emissary. And interestingly Mr. McFarlane was working for John Teller at the time the head of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Yes these people have acknowledged that first meeting with lobbyists they on the loosening of Iran he has acknowledged having a baby off there. Interesting when he made the parallel very similar offered to the John Anderson Independent presidential campaign people and also to the Carter White House and there are classes now declassified formally classified documents that I detail in my book at Dover surprise reveal that the Carter and John Anderson camp

turned him down. The Reagan Bush team Dick Allen now acknowledges that he kept a vigil and of that meeting. He claims that he can't find it. And finally after a lot of the revelations of the story that occurred before the 1988 presidential election beginning of the summer of last year there Gallup has finally acknowledged that yes there might have been a ballot meeting in Europe where the bulk of the information in my book October surprise is a valid theory of that of that meeting. There are people who claim to be eyewitnesses to two taking the Reagan Bush campaign people to think of being in Western Europe. There's also a gentleman who claims to have been to people who claim with come public and under oath. In fact in an affidavit that in one case and under oath testimony in a court of law that they were physically present when Bill pacing. So with that I can write a good campaign manager and to become CIA director with

the president. You kind of rant on morning on October 1. Thank you. Shortly before the election cutting out arms for hostages. You know as with Iraq top officials of the company. As a follow up to that earlier. With that go on. Robert Carlin. Well I tell you I have a caller and like to bring them into the conversation and make them continue to wait and we will talk in more detail about these things as well I'd also like to for anybody who has just tuned in say that we are talking this morning with Barbara hunger. She's the author of a recently published book October surprise did the Reagan Bush election campaign sabotage President Carter's attempts to free the American hostages in Iran. If you have questions for us the local lines are all open. The number is 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. We do have somebody on our toll free line. We'll go right to them. Hello. I thank both of this pattern. Questionable.

Questionable. Doing it. I hate to sound like a Knight told you so. Person I remember a guy I have a weakness for quotations of her who has known one creature and that and that's probably revolting creepily like the governor of California that all this would have never happened if we'd given him just one good movie role. Me man I am. I swear that he did have one good movie role he was rather typecast that was in the remake of The Killers the blade of Owen and I really think that that man is the worst thing that ever happen is on this century. Not merely in the century you can say that some of our civilization. I was. Thinking of a historical family. But what what what. Don to the

environment. Hey I recall that and I am I am. I'm not quite pick either I haven't been up to him but I recall that thing if you've seen one redwood you've seen some of it sort of sums up the impermanence of the other social policies were given right there at the most corrupt. I repeat the most corrupt and the Book of Job I think somewhere there's this thing about corruption. Now my father branches out of the same campaign he ran as we say MEMBER We seem to be losing losing away from the spirit that brought this nation into being. I can envisage the founding fathers of that if it were if this were not merely a mad up or just turning over in their graves at some something on the order of the speed of light. That happened bad for this country I call it entropy I've really think that

the global environment the American environment political spiritual etc.. It's great. Let me let me just jump in here because I would like to appreciate the cause comment but I would also like to ask Barbara because you I know at one time that that you and perhaps you still do admire Mr. Reagan quite a lot and you worked in in his campaign you worked in his transition team you worked in the White House. Is this what you have learned must be difficult for you considering the fact that you that you did work for the campaign and did have a lot of admiration for Mr. Reagan. Well all right let me try to really think that my way OK. And that is and I've I've discussed that. Shortly but having read the introduction to my book I covered. I was really outsider the thought of your provider even though I was only one

of the guys you know I was I'd have bet it if you will. I had been working at the Hoover Institution for ever here for Dr. Martin Anderson the senior fellow there at the carnival. Cartoonist who happened to be in Iraq in the summer of 1980 to join the 1980 Reagan Bush campaign of Reagan. The best policy for which he had also held something close to that back in Reagan 1976 against your old Ford which he lost and I accepted it on the condition that Dr. Anderson would have I don't believe you are actually trying to write a book a book. I accepted that offer on the condition that he understood that I was not going to be working for Ronald Reagan that I was going to be simply continuing to be his research associate and it was on that understanding and

condition which had no political content that I agreed to go to follow him to Washington. He became the king the best policy adviser in the campaign and also in the White House is going to break in with the moderator. Well so I do think that unusual situation I basically went in to going to the campaign the transition and the administration at a really level with my eyes open ears open and very much the attitude scientific attitude of every other politician. I was as much to learn to be educated for my own sake and the sake of the public. It also as it were I took by myself the will of being an attorney a watchdog. If these people if I learn from the inside that these people were going to really step over a legal or a constitutional line I was going to jump out wave flags and go public. I think that I did that on the first

public resignation of conscience from the Reagan Bush administration they definitely did go over the legal line and they went over the legal constitutional line a long time before the Iran-Contra affair. Please go to the public. Well when you say I admired Ronald Reagan I was he was an interesting study if you will. Ronald Reagan was someone who valued as he would advise a clue chief. He was a political phenomenon. And. Still to this they're trying to understand if you will the secret of the teflon coating because it was so incredibly dangerous. Yeah. OK well let's go in here and take another call. We have somebody on our line was one of our local lines. Hello hello. Yes Barbara you know it seems to me that. The Khomeini government wanted to and it seems that it had good reason to want to bring down the Reagan administration that it could

have made this public. Say after the Iran-Contra affair became known and then on top of the downing of the Iranian airliner. Good point but I'll tell you that I have both sides both Mr. Bush and I had gotten into that. But you learn in my book that there are witnesses who place George Bush even if you are for the secret beatings at least one meeting is not born with a top Iranian official. Just before the 1980 election of late October the people who placed the vice president of. Vice presidential candidate George Bush there himself. The reason in my very. Well-read opinion on this question that the Iranians have not done so you have to add they had a huge blackmail card they have an immense card that they can apply against the Reagan Bush originally and now the Bush-Quayle White House and more importantly Hashimi Rafsanjani the man who would like very much to be president of Iran to

like twenty eight I think what is that in just about a little under a week. This was according to the close of my book personally involved in what we're on this side of the divide I believe near Trenton and certainly high crimes peace meeting by at the time a private citizen meeting with Iranian officials. But don't forget on their side if it ever leaked out in public that how he Nelson Johnny or the Harvard behaved be seen or the people who have been placed at these meetings on the Iranian side will ever be pleading with what they call the Great Satan. Who would go down to the obvious defeat instantly. This can only work if it stays secret on their side of. It. Does that get at your question you want to follow up. Only dogs will sing that way if they think that there is but that the current administration the Bush administration may may still fear

the possibility of exposure on the thing. Both the Rafsanjani government and the Bush government fear exposure on the question and that in the final chapter of my book that chapter called The Sound of Silence about the middle of that chapter which is about the 1988 President campaign just past. You learn from us from the source. Doug writes that you probably recognize a former decorated Marine. Both write from his sources who are still in the intelligence the productivity of the special forces of our United States military has stated publicly in his speeches that he has knowledge that Keurig Bush personally that we have found their top Iranian officials on August 11th 12th 1998 on and shipped parts of the island there that people are in the Caribbean to negotiate. Think again with

the Iranians. But has that information appeared anywhere in Iran of course not because George Bush is considered. Then what about the population to believe that the United States government is you know the focus of evil in the modern world. They can't afford for their own people to know what's really happening either. OK well it's only slightly more disturbing than the lot of the other stuff we've heard from the left of ministration and the current one. Thank you very much for talking to me it's a lot more disturbing simply because we're talking about the freedom and in some cases the torture. During the additional period of time it's 52 Americans innocent people were held captive in Iran. The negotiations in October of 1980 until they were fine. We released directly to the Reagan-Bush side on January 20th of 1981 and by the way I should add that the middle section of my new book October surprise detail from the

mainstream press the fact that this is a fact acknowledged by the State Department the Central Intelligence Agency today that U.S. Army began being he couldn't help him to run in late 1985 people that are over there are politically involved in those who doubt the friendship that they began right after Reagan Bush entered the White House in 1981 and my book shows that this was in the quid pro quo he will have full coverage he's agreeing to insure the regular Bush victory by making. Half the time we're not really talking about through the process. You talk you list in the book a number of sources quite a few sources there that you say do you have some information and knowledge of the arrangement between the Reagan Bush campaign and the Iranians and one of these people is President Carter. In fact you you quote you give a quote that he

something he said on Larry King's radio program you know in June of last year he says. He said apparently there were reports made to me this is Mr. Carter speaking there were reports made to me before the election that 911 that this was going on and he's referring to the fact that the Reagan-Bush campaign was having some negotiations that the hostages would not be released and that weapons sales would be restored to Iran either directly or through the Israelis. Now one thing I have wondered quite a lot over time as I have heard I heard various bits and pieces of this story is if President Carter does have some knowledge that this happened and and during the recent campaign there were some hints that he might be willing to supply any information that he had to the Dukakis campaign. If President Carter knows something why doesn't he go public with it why doesn't he say what he has a very good question that I have drafted.

Chapter of my book one of President Carter's closest personal friend that a man who was the fifth person a pilot the whole time that he was governor of Georgia before he became president. Then with David Rabab they threw a bomb is right back at health including being held hostage. Captive in that prison. You know this is the Iranians are not stupid they don't want President Carter talking be implicit if not explicit secret message that has been given to him by the clothing of Mr. Webb is that if he says anything that they don't like it would be bad news presenter. So he is the U.S. President Carter is he is protecting a personal friend for him. OK I believe that if Senator Obama is really a part of something to Nick. President Carter was our guest this morning in focus 580 as Barbara. She is a private research analyst in California and has written the book October

surprise which in which she makes the case that the Reagan Bush campaign cut a deal with the government of Iran so that the Iranians would continue to hold the American hostages there until after the election in 1980 that the people in the Reagan Bush campaign were very concerned that the hostages might be released before the election that's what October surprise means that's what the October surprise would have been. And that that would have guaranteed a victory to Jimmy Carter and that they made a deal with the government of Iran to hold those hostages and that is why they were released at the very moment that Ronald Reagan was taking his oath of office on them in January of the next year and you have a media outlet there after the protests are started. Going into Iran that has millions of dollars worth of little copies of my book. So the billions of dollars. This morning we're talking with Barbara Hanukah author of the book October surprise if you have questions

for us. The local lines are all free and that number is 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. The part of me now that's the toll free line but you can call it and that number two we do have a caller there we'll get to them in just a minute. I sometimes get these numbers jumbled up as long as I've been doing it. The local line 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 the toll free line 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 and if you have questions do call. We do have someone here on our toll free line. We will go there. Hello. Yes I'm wondering why Americans have a very short memory and they really don't seem very interested in everything in history I want to spend the reception of your book. Oh I'm glad you asked the question. First let me just address your comment if I may and that is I think that the reason that the attention span for a good sector of the public anyway not all of us thank God Is that part of myself likely has to do with the fact that many people get the minutes of television and images as

opposed to what are the words thing on the play. There's a certain sense of continuity in history in libraries and books but that isn't the case on the flickering television screen. But how's my book been received so far my book is a brand new book it was out. And rather the bookstore seated in LA bookstores across the country at the federal dollars for about three weeks beginning in mid to late May and then it was picked up. They had an exclusive look at it and then in early June it was available would be dealt with in the crowd book and all the other three major change in the country as well as any of the planet bookstore. It's too early for me to get numbers back but I'm told that 40000 copies of my book which is the for the full quantity of the original printing which is a very large first one for a hardback book a first edition of that book has been so from the point of view of the company which means they aren't bookstores across America. I have now been on the radio and there's been a radio campaign that I've been personally

involved with now for about a month and a half and it will continue through the end of this month or this long after that as I feel the personally and start to do so. The response question its listeners across the country 250 radio program that has been overwhelmingly positive people have thanked me for doing the book and asked what they can do and the answer of course is a congressional hearing. There should be a. Hearing in the House Judiciary Committee which is at it by checkbook Rep. Jack Buck of Texas he would be the man to write that prize. That with Bob has been the only positive in fact more than positive. The American public people have actually read the book or decided to go out and read the book. It's something that you really have to clock you have to read it all to understand the critical mass of data and evidence that there already is in the public domain.

OK my next question is and I recall when you first spoke out when you were in the White House the first thing that P ministration did was send got a picture of you and a bunny. Yeah that's right. An attack your credibility and insinuate that you have tried to do it didn't work. Right now what I'm wondering about is in the part of the Illinois where I live and also other states such as Wisconsin live. And I see political attitude that involved had PV when a Republican is running that it will be about an opponent in our absolute life. It absolutely lies in the candidate Republican candidate. After he won the admission that yes he didn't believe it but you know in he and me at it anyway and I'm going when I think of many Republicans that I know they're wealthy they have tremendous power economically in business and one other

incredible ability. Bad there are no limits to what they will do whether it was Bush and his attacks against Dukakis or look only in the area of time and we're up where the point you know of course is that they're really ignoring the people in the background. There's literally obviously no limit I mean these people in my book. After all Khomeini had declared war against the United States it out of there that we're talking about my book this is treason it's not your treason. They literally it appears that there was an arms for hostages deal with the Khomeini when he was holding an American citizen. It doesn't profit it I mean well. Not just talking about ads about Boston Harbor and really hurt bad here we're talking about something thousand of a percentage point or heinous of that yes. The Republicans clearly will stop it. I hope something I mean I hope they wouldn't drop a

nuclear weapon on New York in order to make a point in a campaign I do think that they have a line. However there's certainly been the last certainly doesn't stop them let alone anything anybody relative that any of the rest of us recognize I think about your present position. Then after I thought be cap on you and I I haven't read your book so I don't know what I would decide but you can find a job. How could you find a job. After the campaign and people begin to think that well first of all let me go back a little bit to that campaign you mentioned. There's the bunny rabbit outfit. You know what's very interesting that everybody everybody in Washington well it's everybody but there are a lot of us who have a great sense of humor. This is in fact you know Ronald Reagan was well loved because he has a good sense of humor. There's a lot that's supposed to be a plus in this world when John Tower was being was being considered for the secretary of defense. Did the

Democrats pull out the picture of him in a Superman outfit that he once wore No. Where I missed it would be said of the. Office of Management Budget Richard garment addressed the physical level of the White House lawn to greet President Bush about a month ago. I mean I don't think that I don't think that even the Democrats would pull out that showing that the man has a sense of humor and pretend that it means anything but that he has a sense of humor. Now the White House when we do the dishes what I read and they literally made up lies about me and the thing I had learned to expect this from them. This is something that you have to let it roll off your back if you will you have to kind of learn this little bit of the secrets that aren't earning. But it starts getting it's obvious the problem there was no problem at all with me getting a job of course. I prefer to be self-employed as a writer I am self-employed. I think you let me ask you if if it was to

come to congressional hearings one it seems to me that one of the difficulty is for you know to establish the fact that this this did this did happen is that many a good number of the principals people who were involved in this are dead. Also you have many of them are well but but I'm sure that well OK. But I'm sure that Bob McFarlane Dick Allen George Bush they're not going to say yeah we did it. President Carter as long as the Iranians are holding his friend as as you say he probably won't say what he knows and it would be it would be possible to attack the credibility of people they sort of slightly shady characters like Hooshang Lavine and and the man Heinrich Rupp who says that he flew Bill Casey to Paris for for the meeting and is now in jail. You say on trumped up charges that this other man there Richard Brandegee who said he worked for the CIA and said he was at that one of the Paris meetings. There's there's no one at the

stature of McFarlane Allen and Bush who will say yeah they did it or yeah we did it and I was there. Well we don't know that for certain because they haven't been called in to a congressional hearing or a court of law under oath yet have either. Don't forget Robert McFarlane did not pass. So you think it's possible that under oath McClellan would say yes we did it. I certainly hope McFarlane has already acknowledged to the buying of the Herald and The Washington Post and many other papers that patriarchal already acknowledged having put together the lobby to you know early October of 1980. You think knowledge being an advisor behind the scenes to the 1980 Reagan Bush campaign there are also others who have come forward to state that Robert McFarlane in fact demanding billion per month to state that Robert McFarland was personally at some of the meetings in Europe to follow up to meaning that he's already acknowledged setting up with Hussein lobbying on behalf of John Tower at the

1980 Reagan Bush campaign begin early October of Washington. So there's a new development. You never know you simply have to put it out and then witnesses start coming out of the woodwork. Two weeks ago in West Germany there's a new development to the October surprise revelations in Germany on July 2nd about two weeks ago on Western television stations called good TV. It's the equivalent of one of our bacon that works there and it's also state controlled better state censored there. So the very fact that one about to tell you was on they control to have a television. Two weeks ago we thought there were. With a 15 minute almost hour long special documentary on the October Surprise revealing to do the work that the first is a man named Bush who has been put under oath in the fraud affidavit that was shown on the air two weeks ago and with Germany that he and the Mossad the Israeli intelligence service with whom he worked at the time had knowledge that George Bush with personally

involved in the negotiations in Europe between October 19th and October 22nd and I can personally personally involved and my understanding although the videotape is to come to be this Friday tomorrow I haven't yet seen it myself and still have to have it translated from the German. I have been pulled by somewhat of both driven and has the truth at least in that that he's actually stated that he personally escorted Blix what do you think the likelihood of congressional hearings is right now that I would put put it low but that doesn't mean that it can't happen simply because there are critical people in the Congress. Don't forget that we have a situation very similar to the Watergate situation in 19 before the 1972 election. The Washington Post with the sole paper that published a major piece of the Watergate. It didn't go anywhere other people didn't pick it up. The Associated Press wire picked it didn't. Pick it out. That doesn't mean that it

didn't turned out to be absolutely accurate and devastating what happened was that is that the the Nixon people mix of would be elected. It then took approximately a year and a half before the public could get the Congress to steer their stumps enough to hold an investigation when only about six months into the Bush administration. We have a very similar situation. We shouldn't lose hope we should lose our enthusiasm for trying to get the facts out to the American public. That's the reason I have a book there are critical people in the Congress who have already called for a congressional investigation. August 7th the very key to that and Senator Robert Byrd who at the time was the majority leader of the Senate one of the top people in our Congress called in the speech on the floor of the Senate for a congressional investigation into the October guy. Key to the origin of the thing that was and still

becoming a veiled and contra affair. People who are at all aware of the facts in the Congress knowing that it had nothing to do with nine thousand nine hundred eighty six the origin went back to October and maybe they know it. There needs to be political pressure put on you don't get a new brand of toothpaste in this country without the Vandar the expectation of public acceptance and that's the reason that I'm doing exactly what I'm doing. People need to read October surprise whether they pick up their own copy book or ask the library to or don't want to read it to the library. At least here you need to think for yourself and then contact the office of Representative chapbooks of Texas. The crew of this too far but I staring at this. We have about 10 minutes actually a little bit less than 10 minutes we're talking with Barbara Hunter about her book. October surprise in which she makes the case that the Reagan campaign in one thousand eighty

made a deal with the government of Iran to keep the hostages there until after the election. Our lines are full. I probably won't be able to get everybody in but will try and get in as many people as we can I just ask the callers if you can to try to to make your comments and your questions brief and I'll try to move things along. We'll go first here to line 1. Hello. Yes good morning. I first heard about this please pretty sporting years ago and I understand that it was repealed and the basement was but an article about you or by you or other people. But that's very interesting the article was written by Christopher Hitchens. It has been seven beginning as I recall in the art of 1987 he published his article five. Tediously with my first article on the subject but I had sent the nation a whole package of documentation which I understand got to him it was the background for his article. But since then yes as you will see from my book October surprise one of

the old Penley reference to documented books you'll never pick up pages and pages of references detailed references at the back. Well there have been articles key articles on the subject with major revelations of pieces of the puzzle in the New York Times on August 3rd of 1987. A whole series of front page banner headline articles by a father started a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter for The Miami Herald and his articles were carried out of the Knight Ridder news wire across the country and therefore they appeared on page one column wanted out here in our Santa Fe Mercury News for instance because that the Knight Ridder paper there are a number of key articles of Europe from the London Observer. The right to believe item in West Germany. I keep going on. There's been Page 1 column 1 of The L.A. Times a huge three page article in The Boston Globe a five page article in the Portland Oregonian. For people who get their news

and carefully read newspapers they're basically aware that these are not just trudges that many of the key people in the story have acknowledged. The early beating of these series of meetings of the arms for hostages negotiate. Back at that camp in October thinking OK let me go on here to another call or go online 3. Well I know I am very concerned. You have read revealed tomb layers in this conspiracy the McFarland's the Bush's and the Reagans Now what is the layer on top of that and what is there. Another word one is the force that is controlling the House. This beast these people and one of the ultimately trying to do. That's a very good question. They hear question if I could paraphrase it is really in charge of what do they want. I mean I'm still trying to understand that myself

but I can tell you is that I have I will tell you what is in my book and I have. Told by a gentleman named James Wheaton who is a major source both for myself and for the Christic Institute lawsuit. Mr. Wheaton was for years with the Marine he was 25 years in military intelligence and investigation. He told me that the people who really run the show depending upon who is in power but the people who really run the show behind the scenes in the government are really not in the government themselves. He calls them the veterans of the OSA. Now these are people who were who worked in our intelligence service during World War Two and who are veterans of the L SS which was the predecessor agency to the Central Intelligence Agency and he said that they ran the place they they ran the director of the CIA. He believes that one is not the most powerful man behind the scenes. Today is a very big glittered Helms who

used to be head of the Central Intelligence Agency was a person a long time friend of the south Iran and became our ambassador to Iran shortly before the Shah fell not to be lightly before but seven years before the Shah fell and Khomeini came to power. Basically these people he says are very pleased that the international business and the cooperation of the world basically the money the interest of the more money you have it. It's not one person one vote it's one dollar one vote. And that's exactly what we have to do. This country to ensure that we have a genuine democracy. Can you read the biography is there or is there a movement to try to overturn or markers. Well I'm not going to say no to me one to start to establish an aristocracy. Well an oligarch if you will an aristocracy of the body the elite. Yes and of course that's been going on since the beginning of history. It's not just to have the have not 50 the top 2 percent versus everybody else. RC

Thank you. And I think we should open our eyes to the fact that we need we need to reform our political system. We need to do acknowledge that we have a political economy in this country and that it's not it's not nasty or a duty thing. Our political system too can you only be one citizen one vote system and to be serious we form a force on the economy which is a little early and controlled by extreme minority of wealthy people. Let's go to another call here to the toll free line. Hello hello yes oh yes. I want to say that this monogram really enjoying the show this morning and the like. Thank you for writing. But experts say like this takes a lot of guts and I got one comment to make him you know hang up I just re-engineer and some of the comments from some of the folks who've supported the Reagan in the bush and in the past and who might either be listening this morning or who have read the book.

Well that's a very good question. I can only tell you what I know and that is that I put it all in my book. As I mentioned Robert McFarland was a back door advisor to the Reagan Bush campaign in 1980 he acknowledged setting up the first meeting in October with the Iranian arms dealer and company of a very Dick Allen who became Reagan's chief foreign policy adviser national security advisor in the White House. He has acknowledged attending the meeting and reporting to his superiors about it. He has also acknowledged to the New York Post that yes there may well have been a follow up meeting that path following. That he has acknowledged it in a big George Bush has never been asked to my knowledge directly about it not that I would expect him to tell the truth. But as I mentioned there are people who claim to be eyewitnesses to his presence and meeting in Europe in late October of my community without the Iranian officials to finalize the deal. So he's put his spokesman again this is also in my book the details of it in

chapters wanted to kill spokesman I believe because his name is Peter Hart of course categorically denied that there was anything to it. However I have now attained the Secret Service records for that period of time in question yet probably surprised period and for the actual date that the claims have been made by the claims by witnesses that Bush was flying to Europe and meeting with the Iranians. His calendar happens to be sufficiently blank for precisely that 20 hour gap. Those who don't talk about the details of these now declassified secret service reports and also documents from inside the Carter administration State Department CIA that have now been declassified that's what I know. We have come to the end of our time. We will have to leave it at that I'm sure that we could continue talking and we'll we'll just have to stop there. I want to thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us today we appreciate it. And may I just mention by both of the box on the air. Sure.

For anyone who reads my book please go read it before you write to me. But if you have a question or a comment or hopefully information that will Furner the best vacation you could write to Barbara HARDAKER of the author of October surprise to about a hundred or Post Office Box 5 1 3 3 2 at Post Office Box 5 1 3 3 2 Pacific Grove at a grove of trees Pacific Grove California I have 3 9 5 0 9 3 9 5 0 0 and thank you very much David. All right we appreciate it Barbara Harding for I guessed her book is October surprise. It's just recently come out published by Tudor books.