Focus 580; Thieves in High Places

Good morning this is Focus 5:30 our morning telephone talk show. My name is Jack Brighton. Glad you could listen. Jim Hightower does not mince words at a time when most of the press seems hesitant to challenge the official version of anything. Jim Hightower just up and says they're lying. In his words the United States has become a kleptocratic nation. That is a body of people ruled by thieves. During this hour focus 580 will talk with Jim Hightower about his latest book thieves in high places. They've stolen our country and it's time to take it back. And we'll also talk about a number of issues including one of his latest projects the Rolling Thunder Down Home democracy tour which he describes as a series of progressive citizenship festivals in various cities across the country combining Syria's purpose with good fun. Many of you already know about Jim Hightower. He was twice elected to the office of agriculture commissioner in Texas and is often called America's most popular populist. His daily radio commentaries are carried on more than 100 stations in addition to Armed Forces Radio and the Sirius satellite radio system. His monthly newsletter The Hightower

Lowdown has more than 100000 subscribers and has won both the Alternative Press Award and the Independent Press Association Award for Best National newsletter. Several of Jim Hightower's books have been bestsellers including if the gods had meant us to vote they would have given us candidates. And he gives about 100 speeches of each year in addition to frequent radio and television. Appearances. Jim Hightower's latest book again is entitled thieves in high places recently published by Viking. And we'll talk about that during this hour as we talk with Jim Hightower we invite you into the conversation. That's what this show is all about. If you'd like to join us the number around Champaign-Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. That's three three three. While wealthy match the letters with the numbers wells have a toll free line anywhere you hear us around the Midwest here or if you're listening on the web anywhere in the continental United States our toll free line 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. We also have a e-mail address if you'd like to join us by email. The address talk

at oil well Dot UIUC dot edu I and Jim Hightower a very busy man joins us by telephone this morning. Mr. Hightower Hello. Great to be with you Jack and all the focus of 80 people out there. Well we're very glad to have you with us. Just to start. You've been accused of having a sense of humor. But you're saying actually but from reading your book I take it that you use words like kleptocracy quite seriously. Well indeed because this is. What has happened to our nation that our democracy has essentially been usurped by corporate clip the krantz and their puppets in Washington of both political parties. In my book I've got a chapter called Bush Co. The first fully corporate White House in our lifetime but I also have a chapter called my party

of the Democrats in Washington that have Jell-O down on us refusing to stand up against this kleptocracy and buy by corporate kleptocrats by kleptocracy I'm referring to the decision making power in our country that has been removed from our families and our neighborhoods and communities and lifted into the executive suite. Just about everything Jack that we deal with these days from what's in the food that we put on our family table to watch in our evening news feed from who gets a job at what wage to who goes to Congress these decisions that have in the past been much more of a people's decision a public decision. Now increasingly are within the fiefdoms of these private for profit enterprise. Well certainly money and politics have long been bedfellows and I think that all you know there's a long tradition of cynicism in America with regard to the entanglement of

you know big money in politics do you think that in the past decade or so it's gotten that much worse. Oh and indeed it has. And the thievery has gotten worse. I mean you know anybody can ask themselves a question. You know if I call my congress critter and I'm just you know Joe Schmo or Jill frill you know regular citizen and am I even going to get a phone call returned much less from the congress critter but you know if I am a $10000 $100000 million dollar donor to the politician and the political parties then yes I'm going to get my call returned. It's a world in which money has supplanted our people's democratic control and that has gotten aggressively worse in the last decade. And now I believe to the point that money essentially rules.

One of the big monstrous of government in the last you know few years certainly the last decade or so has been to run government like a business. That's a great thing. I mean I have to burst out laughing at that I mean are they thinking of Enron or WorldCom or. Or maybe one of the mutual funds that are in the news today. What business exactly are they thinking. But you're right. And and again you know both political parties have used this line Bush and Cheney particularly in the last election just stressed this that they were both corporate executives and that they would run our federal government like a business well corporate executive executive who is not a very proper training ground for leaders of our public interests corporations after all are by their very nature hierarchical secretive autocratic organizations in which the sole purpose is for

everybody to do what the CEO says in order to advance the bottom line of the biggest investors which invariably include the CEOs themselves. So it has a corporation has a very narrow purpose it's anti-democratic has no tolerance for democratic processes. And so that's quite the opposite of the kind of leadership that you need that would encompass the larger goals of the public and encompass the much broader. Interests of We The People. We have a caller already and I promise we'll get right to them but I want to just follow up on that with one more question then we'll get to the phones. There's been a lot of criticism of the current administration in the way that it has awarded contracts for example in Iraq to rebuild the infrastructure of that country and to get the oil industry going and so forth. And I think a lot of that you know the focus has been because of course you know with the vice president was the head of

Halliburton and some of the other corporate involvements of you know present in former White House officials in the corporations that have been awarded these contracts and you know I guess you know the White House has said in response to that. Well you know we're not hiding this is this is OUT IN THE OPEN. And that you know people shouldn't be concerned because we are you know we're doing this so publicly that. Well it's a it's a wide open galloping corporate cronyism is what it is and it's it's not only injurious to our country but it's also an insult. They feel that they don't have to even hide it. The people be dead. We are rewarding our campaign contributors and also rewarding corporations that we've been involved in after all Halliburton continues to put about one hundred fifty thousand dollars a year into Cheney's personal pocket so he personally profits from this. And you know this is you know

how Britain is like a bad tamale it just keeps repeating you know it's it's Brown and Root subsidiary. Those of you who are old enough will remember during the Vietnam period that it was making contributions to the Democratic President Lyndon Johnson at the time and reaping billions of dollars in war profiteering funds and now it's doing the exact same thing so this is not a new phenomena by any means but it has been accelerated expanded. And then just as you indicate it has become much more blatant. Yeah we're doing it. The hell with you all. We're going to keep doing it. Well lines are basically full I want to get on and include some listeners. I have other questions will defer to them. We'll go first to someone indicator on line number four. Good morning unfocussed 580. Yes this is. Let it have a chance to talk to Jim Hightower enjoy your column in the progressive populist every couple of

weeks. Thank you sir. The point I want to explore an idea that Kwai is money. So why why has money corrupted politics to the extent it has now other. I think it may go beyond the simple kleptocracy that is may be. You know the U.S. and Russia like to compete on many fields and we're coming close in this one. But I've come to blame it on so much of the money in the campaigns. Goes to television. So I blame it on the voters who refuse who get all have decided they can make all their decisions by watching television and I'm just this puts me in total despair because what's the cure for this.

Well I believe that the. You're right the power of television. Has become just destructive to to our democracy in large part because it depersonalizes the democratic process and and puts power in the hands of a conglomerate few. But I have in my view what's really gone wrong here is we do not have a party of opposition back in about 1980. Tony Coelho been a member of Congress met in California was chair of the Democratic Congressional fundraising arm and Cuomo decided hey we can get some of that same corporate money that the Republicans are getting. And he put our party on a path away from our populous principles and constituency because if you're taking those corporate checks and I come to you as you know one who is you know Virgin. I've been elected

here in the state of Texas to statewide office and I've seen this money power up close and personal. When you take those corporate checks written on the back of them is the corporate agenda. And so we don't have a party that is free and unabashedly supporting the Democratic interests or the worker interests the family farmer interests the ordinary workaday stips interest in government anymore. Rather we have both parties at one degree or another the Republicans more so but I'm sad to say the Democrats as well. You know my party has taken off its old Sears Roebuck work boots and strapped on the same Gucci's and blue cheese that the Republicans are strutting around them. And that leaves the majority of people under represented and it leaves our political process. With no force that is consistently and intensely attempting to get the money out of the process and everybody in the game is

profiting from the status quo. Right. I agree with you 100 percent but my own position has come to. Would do participate in politics on the local and county level. But I do know a lot. I no longer participate on a state or federal level I don't trust any of them and when I vote in those elections in order to get my None of the above counted I vote for some hopeless third party which everybody tells me is a waste but I think it's a way of being counted. I do too and I'm very pleased that you raised this because the answer is not. As Jack was saying earlier that you get a lot of cynicism as a result of this money control of our process while getting cynical is not going to fix anything. We got to get more involved here which can make a difference. And that is just as you're suggesting at the very least don't let him drive you out of the voting booth. Go in there and vote for your dog or for somebody you know you don't you know I won't write ins unless they've

registered. Thirdly I understand that I fixed the rules but it but at least you know do what you're doing and and more importantly I think the other positive thing that you offer that is so strong in that is get involved locally. If we're going to build a progressive political move but that literally can take power back from these kleptocrats then that's got to be built at the grassroots level it doesn't have doesn't start by running for president. Right. And those of us who who are pretty progressive have have been spending too much time I think worrying about who's going to be the presidential candidate. Yes it's important in my view to get rid of Bush because they're so dangerous but. But that's that's not a progressive victory even if we do rather. We've got to be focusing on who's going to be state rep who's going to be city council member county commissioner and then up to to Congress and then to Senate and then if we build a movement they're electing people who can make a difference and change the way. The political process in government operates then in another eight years or 12 years will be in a position to elect a true progressive unattached to the money

interests to the presidency right. Thank you. OK thanks so much for the call. We have several people waiting we'll go next to someone on a car phone line number one. Good morning you're on focus 580 credit or just short of jitters here you know I'm a native Texan who's a Democrat didn't breed up to 100. Jared Genser it was a Bush administration and I have oil men and farmers in my family trees a horse the for profit improvement only static that doesn't yesterday especially with the education initiatives like if the schools are them you have to stuff it in a kind of surrounding yourself like there's a loose corporate greed especially without a burden to mention one relative Zammit. You don't seem to take the long view. It also used to be short run and move option. Well indeed that is another example of why corporate executives do not make good public office

holders. Is that the corporate mandate is not to take even a short term view but to be concerned about what the next quarter's results are going to look like and then even if the results are not going to be positive enough to satisfy the Wall Street big investment houses then to fudge those numbers as we've seen by Arthur Andersen and Enron and all the rest of them so so that short term view literally looking three months at a time or at most a year in case of a presidency a four year term rather than considering what is a long term impact of all of this and and that's everything from you know ramming up this huge debt that is now a massive bonus in two short years this administration with the complicity of the Congress I've got to say has. Turned a five trillion dollar surplus into a factory in dollar dept with more to come. The long term ramification of this occupation in Iraq.

What this is doing that's going to endanger us and our children way down the road because we're in the exact wrong country with military might and corporate presence logos like Halliburton to be in that Muslim nation long term impacts on the environmental changes that they are wreaking too to allow their wealthiest contributors to take shortcuts on our clean air clean water clean for long term impact of basically eliminating the family farm in America. Just an inexcusable action by so-called leaders not to understand the importance of agriculture and manufacturing sending him both off to third world nations. My own term impacts just out there because here that they that they don't think that they need to worry about because they've got to spend

doctors that can say oh well this is good for us in the short run and don't anybody notice. You know the man behind the. How did you lose the lizard really gets me about this is that I do patch just as your grandmother taught here especially like with the dot com boom is like don't catch your chickens while they're you know before their hearts you know don't put your eggs in one basket you know are in a safe and ready to fill it seriously are these that are using them in the 60s a 60s we mean rest of infrastructure improvements. We've both been issued only system we've built a ton of public schools and we get everything in place that were in there all that infrastructure that we put in 30 40 years ago it is just literally running in front of us. Well it's very much interested in funding for education is it would it would all fashions are going to say yes we want to pay for it. Exactly. Yeah exactly just like keeping a balance you know he really hasn't really done a lot of

previous discussions with my grandchildren and you know we're not I don't know about education that you know if we if we are teaching the test instead of teaching cognitive abilities of citizens then we're going to reap what we sow there which is going to be ignorance. And you know in the end this is a great failure. This is a great shame on our country I think a nation of such wealth and possibility being frittered away for a few to be able to to make a killing that's some kind of a country but that's not America. You ask how we're going to change that. Well we can't wait on somebody do it for us we've got to do that heavy lifting of democracy ourselves and that means creating a new politics that actually talks about these issues. I believe that most folks care a hell of a lot about what's going on. I saw Jack bumper sticker here in Austin Texas my town about a year

ago that was on a no pickup truck and said Where are we going and what am I doing in this handbasket. I think most people have some awareness some thing up that way of thinking something terribly wrong is happening in our country that we're being led down some rabbit path rather than a true American pursuit of an egalitarian society based on our values of fairness justice opportunity for all people and I believe if we had a politics a political party or numbers of political candidates who are willing to stand on those values and on those those populist principles again there would be a tremendous rallying to that banner. And that's what we have to have if we're going to turn the country around. Mr. Hightower that I think the last caller may be a representative of that class of folks that you refer to as the politically homeless. And I wonder you know as the

pope. Gear up for the coming election next year they're going to be aiming at you know particular kinds of voters the crossover voters a swing voters the particular people that they identify as key in particular districts that are going to help them win the you know the delegates and the ultimate race. And you know I wonder like you know what about all these other people who you call the politically politically homeless if they actually got involved you know would the calculation involved in in winning an election change. Oh of course. What we have now is is politics by consultants. Republicans have theirs. Democrats have theirs. They all are very happy just to have the existing minority of people voting because they've got the lists. They know how they vote. They know where they are. They know essentially what it is what it takes to turn them out and then that they they then temper the election to about 1 million voters in all of

America. Who are considered the swing vote the people that those soccer moms in office park dads who are sort of upper middle class but not quite sure where they stand on things and go this way or that way. Well that's that's minimalist politics and it is short changes that the American people and our great country's potential because it means that you gear your message to be offensive and to be as middle of the road as you can possibly get it when in fact most people are looking as our previous caller was for something it's got some bonus to it and that in Lisp the people of this country in the great cause of establishing that a gala Tarion the possibility and maximizing what we can be as a people and as a nation. And I write about it in the book in terms of the last congressional election. You

may recall that Bush claimed a mandate out of that congressional election in the media essentially awarded him a mandate saying oh yes true he didn't win in 2000 but the Begala is now he won both houses of Congress so he's got a mandate. Well. What they didn't tell us is that only 33 percent of the American people voted in those congressional elections in 2002. That means Bush is the actual choice of 70 percent of the people. Not exactly a political juggernaut and a very narrow slice of who we are as a people. Yet even sadder is that the Democrats could only get 15 percent to vote for them. Yet I hear the Democratic Leadership Council which is the corporate wing of my party saying well the answer is we've got to get more moderate and we have to. Can't have anybody like Howard Dean for example or anybody who actually stands for anything because that'll scare the people. And if we get more moderate and just get more that corporate money we can put

these ads on television and we can wean off some of that a percent or two from Bush and then we would win. Well hello. Here's 67 percent of the American people that now here as you indicate the politically homeless looking for somebody to say things that would appeal to them like good jobs and good wages renegotiating NAFTA's in the WTO to include the people not just corporations. Education for everybody from kindergarten all the way through higher education. Just like the G.I. Bill did in this country. Universal health care health care for everyone when they need it. Not based on what you've got you're able to pay exorbitant insurance premiums are not these kinds of issues. I would actually tap into that 67 percent homeless majority. Our lungs are all full We're already a little past our midpoint. Let me just reintroduce our guests during this hour focus 580 We're talking with Jim Hightower. He's the former commissioner of agriculture in

Texas he has had a talk show nationally. You know it's indicate around the country. His his column is published in. The hundreds of papers around the country I'm sure you've seen his books his latest is in high places recently published by Viking Press and our wonderful solice gone talk with some more listeners Next up a listener in ur banna. Online number two good morning good morning. I really appreciate your newsletter. Thank you. So it's sometimes very disturbing the last one particular was really upsetting where you talked about the voting machines. And I wonder if you could just briefly and I don't want to steer you're off on it but a different track but if you could just address that briefly so A-listers can know something about it. Well I can indeed appreciate it because it is a very very important issue that enough that they are that money is driving people away from the polls. Worse is that those who go to the polls cannot necessarily be sure that their votes are actually getting counted the way they meant them

to be counted. This is because our nation has a has now surged rapidly toward electronic touch screen voting machines. The question being posed by the critics of these machines is is after you've done your voting and then this little thing appears on the screen that says here's here are the candidates you voted for correct. And then you hit the hit the little button on the screen this is correct. Well where does that go. And there is evidence that it that indeed these machines can be cracked into your typical 13 year old hacker and boats diverted or the machines shut down entirely without the election officials even knowing that it has stopped counting. That you can hack into the machine during during the day that voting is taking place and get an early reading and therefore redirect your resources or just disable the machine.

And there is evidence that this indeed has been going on around the country. My last issue the highchair a low down no. I go into this. This is a huge subject that is received relatively little attention from the mass media. And it is even more disconcerting to learn that the owners of these voting machine companies are not. We the people we don't own the machines we lease them from these companies and the owners are rabidly Republican partisans. While Lee O'Dell from nearby Illinois there in Ohio while they were Bill Owens Diebold CEO that Diebold is the provides machines for 40 percent of the vote count in America today. Well he was a guest of George ws down at the Crawford ranch it back in August when the Bush fundraisers all gathered. The big money raisers they call the Rangers the

pioneers to collect the hundreds of thousands of dollars each for Bush while he got so excited he went back to Ohio sent out a letter to his wealthy friends and asked for $10000 each and contributions to the Bush re-election effort and allowed as how he was committed to delivering Ohio's electoral votes to George W. in the next election. Then the next day the Republican secretary of state certified his company to be the provider of machine voting machines for the state of Ohio. Well even the New York Times has to call this a perceived conflict of interest. And of course this is as most alarming whether you're a Democrat or Republican doesn't matter. You should not be able to steal elections and particularly steal whole elections from you don't have to go steal the ballot boxes used to happen maybe in Chicago or somewhere in the old days. Now with with a click of the mouse you can steal the election so what we need this. The good

news on this is that it is fixable. There's a piece of legislation H.R. 2 2 3 9 that requires a voter verifiable paper trail of every vote that is cast so when you click that little button saying yes that's how I voted. Then you get a print out just like you do for me a t a machine that says here's a piece of paper. This is how you voted and then you turn that over to the election officials. So if there is a charge of fraud if there's a recount needed we actually have the paper ballots on hand to do that counting. We should probably mention a couple of web addresses you mentioned the Hightower Lowdown the your all for that if you would like to know more would be Jim Hightower Lowdown dot org I believe is that right. OK. And also your other main website is Jim Hightower dot com. So those are good websites. To look at if you want more information we have a bunch of people waiting to talk let's go next to someone in Champaign County on line number three. Good morning you're on focus 5.

Yes so many so many things since you mentioned universal health care I mentioned that Illinois actually has the opportunity passed the House already there's something called the Health Justice Act that would set the state of Illinois on towards universal health care it's the five or six year program to do it or maybe for your wits with a lot of town meetings and all that sort of stuff. A real democratic concept but it's not getting a whole lot of press but it's up for the for passage in the Senate in the butt to veto sessions we're having in the month of November. So very important because states are taking the lead in this and Maine has already passed something like you're talking about and of course your governor is pushing for prescription drug purchases from Canada to a nation that does not allow Pascal like our government allows the drug companies to do so. The state initiatives are so important because you know the federal government isn't going to do it. Then there are other ways for us to go so there's something. Optimistic here.

I wanted to mention. Well our governor does things like respond to SBC which is a Senate Tonio company we've had sort of a Texas takeover here quickly in this particular area diner Giono Illinois power though they're trying to pass it off to Commonwealth Heads So I guess the thieves will be in Chicago instead of that Houston that goes ahead. But. But SBC I mean they they just did back flips to get SBC the kind of legislation it wanted recently and they cut the brother of the mayor in to be you know CEO or something of the company too so they're they're spreading it around a little bit but I mean it's just it's just despicable and it really does hit us where we live Texas panhandle is the name of the pipeline company that I think Dungy has some shares in that's going to gouge the heck out of us this winter with natural gas prices but actually what I wanted I saw you flashed on the screen I think it was actually a. A TV show on the occasion of Rush Limbaugh's embarrassment looking at a talk radio and why the right and the left are doing differentially. And it flashed you on the screen but didn't mention that you know you were doing quite

well it was basically your rather public argument with the mouse that took you off the air and that that's really sort of the pattern I'd like for you to tell that story because this whatever media did this I can actually recall those are the kind of things you need to jot down I guess but sometimes some show it might even have been now but they just didn't point out that with Moyers that they didn't point out that you were you were taken off when you have quite a healthy listenership and were expanding and it just isn't. There was a corporate decision by Dale like you to dominate on that a little bit. Thanks for your work and even most of them died and then getting my alst when Disney took over ABC I had a weekend show radio show on ABC that is the color indicates it was doing quite well but Disney had no interest in a national show that was talking not just about liberal social issues but was taking on the populist point of dealing with money and power. So I was very short lived there

but even more important is today just what you saw in that show The New York Times has also done this. There have been various media. Established media outlets that are pointing to me as an example of how you can't make it in radio if you are a progressive. When in fact none of those outlets have ever even called me. You know which is the you know I don't know they don't have the 5 1 2 area code on their phone or quite what it is but we receive no calls only that these things appear in print or are in broadcast that that somehow or other I am a failure and an example of why nobody should even try to do progressive media which is you know absurd since since the will is doing that right now. But also you know I could point out to them not only what happened in that case but that within a year I was back on the air with a daily talk show a two hour a day talk show that ran for four years until I decided to withdraw from it because I wanted to do more traveling

and that show allowed or that I've been on the air with my radio commentaries for now 11 years. And and going very strong. More than 100 hundred thirty stations around the country carry that. But they're warning to use any excuse as a damper to basically try to get progressive themselves to self-censor themselves in fact not only can we make it on radio but we are making it and making it in a lot of other ways as as well you'll notice the New York Times bestseller list these days has a my book and Molly Ivans book and Michael Moore's book Joe Conason book cowpoke rudiments book you know right on down the line very very progressive voices right at the top of the list. Our lines remain full Let's go on and talk with some more listeners we'll go next to someone in your Rico on line number four. Morning on focus 580. Thank you very much I really appreciate your commentary as I listen to them primarily on radio for

Peace International have issued your comments this morning my question would be. You mentioned voting and I guessed a few minutes ago you were getting at it about creating a democracy. What specific recommendations do you have there as far as how ordinary citizens can keep moving and keep things rolling right. Well the first of all just just take action where you're most comfortable. First of all you've got to recognize that that you are the one that there's no leader going to come along and do it. We have to create the possibility of a national leader down the road. But as I said earlier you don't start with national leaders. The American Revolution didn't start with national leaders. The suffragist mad Aleutian is the populist a labor movement civil rights movement women etc. environmental. It's all started at the grassroots level and the good news is as in THIS IS IN MY these in high places. My current book

I think one reason is doing so well is that I tell these very positive stories of how people are actually doing it already. Fighting for a living wage taking on public financing of our elections and passing these things. Battling against sweatshop labor taking on the Wal-Marts and the other big box bullies that barge into our neighborhoods and communities and more often than not we're winning these fights. And so they have to recognize that not only can we do it but people are doing it right there in wherever you are there somebody or some group or somebody is lighting a little prairie fire of rebellion so first just get connected with those folks and sometimes these are issue campaigns like living wages Netcenter. Other times they then slide on over into. Electoral campaigns because out of these movements come candidates and come campaign managers and people with skills and and you can put it together locally. Then as

as a you begin to move up. We've got to develop that pool of talent both in terms of candidates and and organizing skills at the at the grassroots level and recognize that it's not going to happen in the next presidential election. America's not going to suddenly turn over but that it's a long term strategy that we're involved in a building process and we're already well along the road to that we don't have to create the progressive movement. We just got to connect it up. Did you get your newsletter through your website. Yes you can Jim Hightower dot com. We'll link you to fact you can subscribe online and get it right there as well as the books on my travel schedule and etc. and what we ask one final question. Do you think that voting for third party candidates can be very useful. I think it particularly can at a local level where where third party candidates actually are running and winning and that's the greens of the Working Families

Party Libertarian Party and showing that government can actually be different and particularly in states like Oregon. Minnesota Wisconsin and California. There there it's New Mexico there quite a few even Alaska there are quite a few victories taking place and again building up from the ground level. If the Democrats won't stand for what for the people somebody is going to I mean I personally am an insurgent Democrat. I want to bring my party home but I understand the viewpoint of others who say I'm going to fight from the outside. Thank you. Thanks very much for the call. We have less than 10 minutes left and several callers I want to just you know ask you two if you would you want to talk about the Rolling Thunder democracy tour here for a minute because something seems like something that is involving sort of town hall style gatherings of people rather than some televised event or a debate an attempt. Thought of build a grassroots sort of action constituency.

It's based on on something I mentioned earlier which is we don't have to create a progressive movement it's already out there. But the the whole of our progressive effort is not greater than the sum of its separate parts right now because folks are connected people to one side of town dealing with the living wage on the fo'c'sle in the outset as they honor a fighting against a hog factory and they don't know the folks who are battling against toxic waste dump in the inner city. So so our need is to link together. And one way to do that is them a festival setting. Give people an excuse to come together from across all the lines of. Raise some political parties in the neighborhood that the powers that be draw for us. And so we've created this Rolling Thunder Down Home democracy tour concept where local people local groups get together decide they want to do it and are willing to forge a coalition. So beginning from the very start the coalition

building process. And get a you know 30 40 50 70 groups together to put on one of these festivals and they're usually in parks or at fairgrounds or something like that community colleges. So think of it like a county fair of democracy. So there's a speech going on over here here's some music over there we've got clowns a Patch Adams is a part of that Ben and Jerry of the ice cream fame. They're involved with us with all kinds of games that they have. We've got food being served food different kinds of restaurants in the community. Usually we have a beer garden so we can lubricate the movement a little bit. We have all kinds of workshops taking place of how you do take power back over every aspect of your lives we got an action Tanso there 12 things you can do right there on the day of the event the event runs. Is it from noon to 10:00 o'clock at night or something like that so this is the

whole lot taking place there and it's fun. And that's that's our whole concept. Our slogan is let's put the party back in politics. Why should politics be boring committee meetings and something you only do the last 30 days in an election rather than make it a part of our social lives. Very good we have several callers waiting to go on include as many as we possibly can for in a time when next to someone in ur band. Lie number one. Hello. Yeah. Senator Dick Durbin did a great job shutting down Orne hatch and Judiciary Committee hearing last October 22nd you should look into it would support it was highlighted by Bill Moyers Now program last Friday. Terrific. He did a good great job and Orrin Hatch was you know OK well check it out with by the way mentioning that they're going to do to Bill Moyers Now program his in the next within the next month I'm not sure the exact date is going to do a feature on a resident under

or so that that will be enjoyable I think. Yeah and I've I've read letters that the other generated by your Rolling Thunder things that were said at Rolling Thunder that are really wonderful about I have a quick question in two quick questions. One is yesterday I was listening to a panel about electronic voting. And a lady called Conny McCormack. With the pending you know the use of electronic voting and you know that is three and in Texas. I was curious if you knew her name. No I don't know her at all and by the way I am not opposed to electronic voting I'm opposed to it being done without any paper trail. So when we do recounts and and fraud charges come up we can actually find out what in the she was working or not. Yeah well I'm with you on that and especially if there is any kind of hope for like proport proportional representation are electronic voting would really help. But

you know but it's going to be done right. And and it's very likely it wouldn't be with these people involved but I'm out. Last question I understand in the in one of the things that the left doesn't do well but finally someone from across them happens to be you. In your book apparently you have a six page with the anti-environmental crime and you said it isn't that this is just to show the enormity of and the extremism of what is taking place in Washington by the Bush ites again too often with the complicity of congressional Democrats but. And that is why I used the example of just the first two years of the Bush administration in just the field of the environment the changes that they. Have have either made or attempted to make and that is. It's about six pages of tiny type dot dot dot dot dot. It's astonishing to see it.

Yeah I read the reviewer mentions a few like rejected the Kyoto global warming picture eating right through arsenic in drinking water standards. The rollback of the roadless national forest plan tried this ring boundaries the one it is National on hand to cut 270 positions from the EPA enforcement division. The gods of the three read if they read that he really felt like heading for the nearest Green Party. Maybe the last parting shot if you could talk a little bit about Wal-Mart and apparently do a great job of. We're going to have a lot of near bargain are going up thank you very much. Thanks and I have a chapter on the beast to Bentonville as it's known by its own employees. Now the largest corporation in the world and the biggest suppressor of wages in middle class possibilities here and elsewhere around the world. And while I do go into detail about why Wal-Mart is a beast of a corporation

I also tell the good news there which is that the people are in rebellion against it. Another little reported story in fact I have a list a two page list of 170 cities in America that towns and cities that have defeated Wal-Mart or the other big box of bullies. And I also list connections for those of you who want to take on the beast yourself. OK well we have just about two minutes left. We'll get to at least one more call here and some one on one number two I believe on a cell phone. Good morning. Hello I got you can you give me just a quick word on the debate about whether to participate with the progressive party such as a Green Party or to stay in the mainstream party one of the most eloquent statements on that issue that I ever heard it was last February at our local Abene city council meeting. Folks brought a petition before the city council to oppose the Iraq war and one of the young councilman who was a Democrat spoke up finally and that about

many of you are by friends. We get that we don't live from the presidential election could be upheld in 2000 whether or not the Green Party should probably be on Al Gore to assure that Bush never been elected. Well the Green Party didn't do that and Bush did get elected at the time the Green Party that the bank will have to get worse if a Republican gets elected should be on the go all the way to a production if you're to allow things to get a little worse. And now things are worse. We're going to have a war. What community don't you know that is where they have the particular job opportunity. You are the reason we're at the war rather shot from the Democrats. Gen. Jim you had to post up what they're both part of your response. Well I mean think things are as worse as we need them to get. That's for sure right now. And and rather than get into to a mud fight

over what happened last time I think it's important to focus on what we can do this time and what I find as I run around the country as people are ready to get together. Some are supporting you know third party candidates some are supporting of various of the nine Democratic possibilities right now. But the important thing is not be mad at each other because what's that about next April. We're all going to need to get together and go after George W.. Because I think he's a one term president. If we just you know get focused and get in motion. In fact I know people who are at their voting booth right now Jack and are not going to move until next November when they get a chance to to vote this guy out so I think I think progressives have got their head screwed on. Got our eye on the prize but let's remember that defeating Bush is not a progressive victory. We certainly have to do that. But having done it then we've got to redouble our grassroots effort to build a true progressive movement.

We're going have to leave it there since we're out of time. The book is these in high places. The author your guest Jim Hightower. You can also look at his website. Jim Hightower dot com. Or for the Hightower Lowdown newsletter Jim Hightower Lowdown dot org. And to to you Jim Hightower thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much great to be with you.