Focus 580; Foreign, International and Military Pressuers: Maya Strategies For Redefining Their Future

In this spot of focus 580 we will be talking with an anthropologist who is well known as a scholar of social movements in Latin America. She has written on the competing forces of globalization and the cultural traditions of indigenous Maya us who live in Mexico and Guatemala. Looking at issues of identity and cultural traditions women's rights popular movements and so forth after 50 years of study of indigenous communities in Mexico and Guatemala she's considered to be a leading authority on Mayan activists and also leaders in Chiapas in southern Mexico. One of the poorest and most indigenous states in Mexico and she'll be talking about this subject some of her work in a talk this evening. And it's part of the miller come series and that takes place tonight at 7:30 at the Levasseur center on Illinois Street in Urbana. And all of these programs there are always free and open the public so anybody who is interested in hearing the talk should feel welcome to the town and we're fortunate to have her here with us. We have many people from this series on the program to bring them to a little larger audience people who could not attend the talk.

So we're here open to your questions and comments this morning. Our telephone number here in Champaign Urbana is 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. We do also have a toll free line that's good anywhere that you can hear us and that is 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 0 3 3 3 wy L.L. which may not make it any easier. 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 and toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 and perhaps I should mention I guess I did not see the June Nash is distinguished professor emeritus of anthropology at the City University of New York Graduate Center. Well thank you very much for being here. Glad to be here appreciated. Just as a way of starting out I think if we start to engage people in a conversation about the Maya and ask them what they knew they'd say probably say something like Well this was an ancient people of Central America and you can go today and walk around the ruins of their civilization but the Mayans are long gone.

Well in fact you know over the Mayans are not long gone there are millions of them still around today particularly in Guatemala and in southern Mexico. So perhaps we could talk a little bit about the present day Maya. There are in Chiapas alone at least a third and maybe higher of the population. I say higher because some have chosen the path of culture ration but they are still my as they never call themselves my. It's a term that was applied by archaeologist and derived from the early encounters with the Spaniards. People in the Yucatan they call themselves the true people. But we need it yes. And my own career began with studying my is in 1954 in Guatemala. I was a student and responsible that say for the entire project by any means. I learned at least to appreciate that depth of culture the mentioned

age. Yes how do they how do they live today. In what sense are they a traditional people in what sense are they modern people and maybe that's something of a mix of both. Yes there is. And today you see the changes in the last two decades where they have separated themselves from the kind of model that Struve. No water no electricity. When I first went there in the late 50s and early 60s in Chiapas the Pan-American Highway didn't even go down to Guatemala then it was a muddy street and sort of petered out it was hard to know what was the road and what was. I knew you were get it. It's in those days and often one fell into it in the Jeep you know by just the hazards of driving. But in the 20 years especially beginning in the mid 60s. And perceiving up to the president they have

become part of the world of consumption and in some cases released from subsistence cultivation to become community days and undertake other careers. But most of them are losing their foothold in their own lands. This is one of the problems that they face and that I think some people are trying to address the NGO is particularly what's what sort of forces have they had to deal with have have come to bear on them and it's been both. We talk about globalization and something that seems sort of inescapable forces that come from outside. But then the internal economics and politics. Warfare there have been all sorts of. They have really struggled from facing kind of pressure from all kinds of directions both internal and external What are what

are some of those things. When I first went to nine hundred fifty eight it was the beginning of what we used to call in those days a witch hunt and it was the first experience of increasing pressure from the outside world often became an attack on each other because the internalization of so much of their life prior to that in the 500 years resistance as they call it often meant a withdrawal into communities where they tried to find autonomy as a people. That very same withdrawal tactic became. Dangerous when the pressure is mounted to draw them into the larger world. And they responded by attacking members of their own community called witches at that time brew hosts or a lot of teak and directing the hostility that came from those outside pressures. The increasing pressure for them to migrate for example down to the

plantations the pressures from indebtedness which came from the green revolution as it was called they had a use of chemical additives to the cultivation process that often invented them and caused a great deal of concern when they couldn't pay off those debts. I had lived in a town where women were extremely important in the economy. You know even prefer contests on close time as they were making pottery and selling it in a wide region so their income became increasingly important. And this aggravated gender and beg it as on in the house whole. It didn't solve it is as some of us had hoped. Rather it it often turned husband who gets one. We certainly there are places around the world where we've seen very very deliberate attempts by governments to.

Force fully if not forcibly get Indigenous people to to go in to integrate into it what would be a more dominant culture perhaps a European one or a more European one had. Has that happened with my Has that happened in Mexico and Guatemala other places with their lives. Definite really. And a deliberate kind of government program of assimilation. Definitely and part of this was to draw are the indigenous peasants out of a subsistence culture into that cash economy and they did this often when mixed national oil company Mexico started a petrochemical business. They wanted to sell the fertilizers and the pesticides and the indebtedness drew the pin. I drew them in it's truth that the increased output there's no question about that. But there

again they notice after a 10 year cycle the depletion of the soils and this has aggravated some of the problems that they had faced as supposed to assistant pharmas and had less of a population to deal with. So the indebtedness and the dependence on government handouts created a dependency that they had partially avoided in the past by going outside of their own economies to get the cash they needed. And that was to the plantations those plantations disappeared. The coastal coffee growers were no longer operating in the 1980s. So in that 20 year period they had turned to northern migration or two to Footloose laborers in other people's fields.

How do you know in what ways have they been have been caught up with in PL internal political conflicts in the places where they live. Tremendously important question because the conflicts that started with definitions in terms of religion as Protestantism minted and competed with Catholicism as traditional Catholics who had had more or less independence without overseen from the Catholic Church during a long period when they didn't have the funds to send priests out. Then the religious conflict became a means of channeling and expressing some of those conflicts as a result of the diminishing of the land resources. Some of the indigenous Webelos began to expel on the basis of their religious differences. And there were 30000 from one village alone that is right next to

the center of colonial Center for Trade and the next is for Indigenous exchanges. Thirty thousand came into town and over a 10 year period. That would lead just conflict was often exacerbated by partisanship in the political parties. There once was a single party as you know for 70 years in Mexico the PRI party the reports now to you and to his he would not have had dominated politics. But there were other parties that would get Congress people in and they began to move into center stage as they began to last they had to demonic grip on me. On the indigenous populations these parties especially the PRI had a strategy of cultivating antagonism internally so that they wouldn't have to press the button themselves and it would always be done through in a calm way.

That's the mayor of the town. Or another indirect agency. An indigenous agency always preferred to to move Indians against each other that reached a climax in the latter years of the PRI especially after the uprising of the separatist rebellious force. And in 19 97 there was a massacre of people. In Chinelo carried out by indigenous leaders of the office party again against the group they claimed a new liberation theology Catholicism is their guiding light. We have a caller and I'd like to bring them into the conversation perhaps also I should introduce Again our guest June Nash. She is distinguished professor emeritus of anthropology at the City University of New York Graduate Center. She's here visiting the campus will be giving a talk talking

about some of the work that she has done writing about the impact of globalization and also military repression on the indigenous peoples of Latin America specifically Mexico and Guatemala. She'll be giving a talk this evening at 7:30 at the lever center. It's a miller cum event. So if you're interested in you're here in around Champaign-Urbana you should feel welcome on this program questions are also welcome. 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 4 Champaign Urbana toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Color here is on a cell phone in Champaign. Lie Number 1. Well yeah good morning. My daughter just returned from Peace Corps service in the south of WI where there are a lot of quantum foam. How out of my ass. And although that society purports to be carrying it. Or is it different cultures. I think that the Maya There are at the bottom but that they're better off than the my and one of my all and there seems to be a lot of

drift across the border because of the border there in the mountains. So I wonder if he would speak to that to the belief in its relation to my situation has always been an escape. This was true even before the Conquest you know they were my is moving up into police to get away from Central Powers so it has been a safety safety valve for the country as a whole. It was especially important during the years of terror and violence and not only there but to Chiapas and the Yucatan. The problem will always. Be there as far as the need. Until the need to to find escape jets until the Mayas themselves attain what they want and that is a relative degree of autonomy

within the states they live in they don't want freedom the uprising of the Zapatistas was directed towards that. The peace process is again an attempt to retrieve their cultural base. However they need the power to put into action their program of development which differs considerably with what both governments the Mexican government and the Guatemalan government are proposing in terms of the. Or the area they put out they call Micio for Center America. If that goes through and it is already starting then they won't have the kind of sepsis is a base that allowed them some degree of autonomy even in colonial times and in the independence period. But I imagine you're pretty worried about your daughter. I met three young.

Peace Corps people in kind tell Guatemala when I was their allies month they doing a great job there working with Indigenous people and with Misty in that town. To achieve some of the objectives defined by my aunts and it's an important effort that they're making and they're. Perhaps you could talk a little bit more about for the for the people for the Mayas as they think about development and as they think about how they would like their communities to be organized and how they would like to live and you compare that with the ideas of the governments and along the same lines how are they different and how is it that what the Maya with these people the indigenous people want is different from what the government seems to want. When the Maya talk about it. About autonomy we

often get the idea that they don't want a kind of an anarchic liberty. This is not at all their idea. They would be in their own kind of colorways which are these binding bodies that operate throughout the LOC and in a semi autonomous way. They are responding to people and their adage of command being applies to leaders as well as the base communities that the leaders truly are trying to listen to what members of the community say. Now as far as their active practicing autonomy goes it's extremely limited because they don't have a budget. They don't have the assistance they don't even have the basic services that other Mexicans have and the same is true in Guatemala programs has set up but they aren't funded and we've seen that experience and heard about it from Victor

mon Pei hole who is here is one of the speakers in the dialogue with just ahead. So the autonomy movement is not to get rid of governing bodies. It is not an a Kisan it is a responsible. Governing with participants entering into consensual decisions it effects internal domestic affairs as well as external with other posts and with other governing bodies at a higher level in the nation. And the their ability to listen is a remarkable feature of a governing group that is seeking liberation in dictating in any sense a single program of developing that they're opposing the government program called a plan plan. Panama which at one level speaks of

participatory democracy but doesn't provide the mechanisms for realising that in any kind of exchange between those who govern and those who remain. It has a local body without governing power or without the budget to implement it. We have another caller this is someone also in Champagne line of one. Yes I'd like to. They have had their own religion. I think that my is proved to us that you can be yourself while communicating in the national language because most of them now speak Spanish which is the lingua franca of both Guatemala and Mexico. They also have retained a spiritual identification that their idea is not competitive with either the Catholic or Protestant

religions that they profess to go into this language problem the Maya proved to us I think that multilingualism is an asset and provides a rich cultural base for us for sharing with people of a different language group there or in Guatemala. The last time I heard I think it was 18 and some say twenty one languages. There are of course many cognates and and they can communicate with each other but they go beyond just sharing a common vocabulary. The core of that can be very. But reaching out to seek communication with people of different languages within their own group the same is true in Chiapas and in the country as a whole there are many different languages there are five different dialects of the Maya language in the state of Chiapas alone

and they are able to communicate have had extensive commercial exchanges throughout their history. So the. The question I think you also raise religious differences and I would like to refer here to Bishop some wild Ruiz who went to Chiapas in 1960 and served until 1998 when he retired and in that period he learned to listen to them. This is very unusual. People go to Chiapas somehow learn from the Maya's how to listen. We are not good listeners in the United States had think it's one reason we have trouble learning other languages as I did when I went down there and began my studies to help out. But the power that the bishop had to listen in the booth him to hear truths that he shared in common. As a Catholic with those

who had spiritual identifications with nature and professed in his own narration of those 30 years more than that in office that they have often had superior notions of how to identify spiritually with nature how that might help the environment. If we were to take on some of their understandings. Thank you. All right thank you. It was a go let's go again to someone else this is someone listening this morning in Urbana and it's Lie number two. Hello. Hi how are you. Good. I wanted to ask Professor Nash if he could explain a little bit more why the Maya are under so much military pressure in chop us and in Guatemala and could she explain what the plan. Panama is two big questions. I'll try to answer them in Mexico was not a militarized state

until really the age and even in the state of Chiapas which was considered the kind of outlaw state the military were a low profile entity until 1996 I began to see the big barracks run short in a way of 12 kilometers outside of San Cristobal was being built up with a lot of fancy houses for the officers it was going to be a whole regiment and they were preparing for something I felt it wasn't clear what till I went there to stay for several summers beginning in 1989 and I and my students saw a gathering of forces both against government and pressure against the indigenous blows a bit looked like it might reach a confrontation stage the cane growers down in hot country who were like many of the highland

villages. By doing well but with a strong tilt to their own linguistic group they had formed their own compass ino an independent compass ina group from that of the of the Confederation of camps you know was really ordered by the president. There was a break in in the kind of his demonic control of the party and three people were kidnapped when they led a group of several hundred cane growers to the administration of the sugar refinery asking for higher rates for their sugar. That was the first time I had heard of actual shooting by the army and there was that over kill capacity that had built up in Run children away of all that became more and more evident as a pressure cooker that is from say the military became more

and more of a pressure and control over I mean creasing. Protest group from among indigenous people. Simultaneously there was the organization of indigenous people for the 500 year celebration of resistance against the government as they call it wasn't celebration of the conquest but they were marking that anniversary and revealing at the same time their own gathering momentum as a political group. And unlike the earlier confederations and movements it was now an indigenous group they call themselves indigenous people and they organized as indigenous people. Now the second part of your country question was Was it the

religious. No I asked if you could explain a bit more about. The development plan fell upon the mouth thank you I'm glad that you brought that up we have been discussing that throughout the week including yesterday's warm. The plan put upon and has all the buzzwords that we hear in NGO circles and yet they have not urged the follow through on the agreement that was made by government officials in 1996 when the Zapatistas were still a more formidable military force than now. The plump upon my mom was ignored all of the requests for participation in change even while saying that they were responding to blows. It was not a response to play applause as

the indigenous people have pointed out there is no mechanism for them to get together as groups in regions and discuss what they want not what they want is a continuation of. Semi subsistence cultivation artisan production they also want to do what some of them are doing in that is organized cooperatives that are run by indigenous people. What they don't want is the essential part there climbed up on my it is building highways hydroelectric dams often taken over lands through those procedures that are now occupied by indigenous people. And the plan is also even considering bringing my keyless into the jungle layers as they have in Guatemala across the border. And these mock healers are our foreign firms in some cases Korean firms

are there. They have no respect for Mayan traditions. In fact they even hit workers in their own frustration as people who don't speak the languages and the they they don't work with the talents and resources that better they are in the field they impose an alien form of assembly production on a people. And literally worked them to death 12 hour days in some cases I've heard often in Mexico. That is the plan high investment strategy from outside with no participation. Let me get introduce our guest for this part of focus 580 to June Nash. She's distinguished professor emeritus of anthropology at City University of New York Graduate Center and is well known as a scholar of social movements in Latin America. She's written quite a bit on the competing forces of globalization and the cultural traditions of indigenous Maya

living in Mexico and Guatemala after many years of studying Indigenous communities in Mexico and Guatemala she is considered a leading authority on Mayan activists and leaders in Chiapas in southern Mexico. One of the most indigenous States and Mexico and also one of the poorest she'll be speaking on some of this in a talk in the Miller come series tonight at 7:30 on the U of I campus this takes place at the Levis center on West Illinois and is sponsored by a number of campus units including the Center for Latin American and Caribbean studies. These talks are always free and open to the public. So if you would like to hear more from her and you were here in around Champaign-Urbana you should feel welcome. Also here on the program questions are welcome 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Perhaps there are people who will remember when they first heard about these up at least as it was early in 1994 and I think that a lot of people unlike you who had spent time in this region and knew about what was going on I think a lot of people

it seemed that the Zapatistas came out of nowhere and we were all asking this question what who who are these people what what is this place what are the issues here we're talking about. And that is that then we slowly learned about this organization that had come out to champion the rights of indigenous indigenous people in this part of Mexico and least learn a little bit about it. Now here we are 11 years after. This happened he says first appeared to have it. What sort of. Has there been any sort of long term impact in Chiapas as a result of the Zapatistas. Yes it's changed the way people think about Indians and the way the Indians thing about themselves and it is early markable transformation it was early in 1905 the very first right neurons that were right after the celebrations were going on for New Years

when they appeared out of the dark apparently they came up from the jungle they came over from Ireland and it didn't as villages like Sun and three slot on side. They came a 2000 strong they had been trained. I've been in training for 10 years and they have their own leadership. They also had some Comandante Marcos who was serving as their spokes person on that evening but many of the indigenous leaders also spoke their voices often got drowned in the media. But it has been coming through more strongly lately now. That evening was a like a precursor to what has come since they were handing out leaflets during the uprising this is unusual for guerrilla fighters. They made the point that their arms were symbolic in many ways that nobody listens to you unless you've got this. It was on New Year's Eve and

so maybe they had an easier time of it but they entered into the barracks in a way of a broncho. They also ended in the penitentiary and let out some of the prisoners many of whom were political leaders among indigenous Misty top people. They also ended four of the mayoral offices but to show you their intent and purpose. A very famous historian of the Chiapas area Thrace Aubrey who has research institue arrived on that night because you'd heard something was up in town and saw them burning some of the papers from the DEA and he said stop. You've got to save that. That's going to be your future that you can base your new governments on what we've learned about what happened in the past and they did stop and they put two guards on to

watch that it that the archives were not going to be burned bentonite. It's that kind of attention to detail I think they do get it in the indigenous movement that shows quite a different approach to a guerrilla movement that relies in its own way on force in opposing force the way in the private. Now it's 10 years 11 years since the issue to mention that and in that period of time they have developed their own leadership. There isn't the attention paid because they my article still lives in their midst. But he is busy writing to take the novel known. It has of course a lot of details that are pertinent to the political political scene but they are there. It is the indigenous leaders who have taken over. The the principal voice. And these are men and

women for the first time. My all women are as active in public life in the kind of color lace as are the the men. And that has been another extraordinary point in this guerrilla movement that it was also dedicated to gaining rights for women I think the revolution of 1910 to 17 in Mexico did reinforce the control of man within the families. The point that it's not often made and their attention to redress that deprivation of rights has been a feature that is acted out in homes in villages as far as the. The issue of how they're playing this out in the development process is they are extremely limited in what they can do by the their own inability to control the rich resources that are

in Chiapas. These are the hard hydroelectric power bases. It's the oil demand in most of the territory in the lock and that has been recently discovered there and makes it a resource base that they would like to get control from not only central Mexico but they've been selling off some of the rights to it to foreign poets. We have some other people who bring in the end of the conversation let's do that in Champaign next line 1. Hello. Oh yes. First of all my compliments to Dr. Nash and to the Center for Latin American Caribbean studies because I think this is an incredibly important topic to be bringing forward to the community. One of the things I would like to ask is if Dr. Nash could speak about it given that the Zapatistas began their revolution

on the day that the left accords took effect that was intentional. We just passed the 11 year mark of. After could she talk about what the history of what Master has produced for the Maya people. What the U.S. role in all that was and bring it forward to today when Now we're being asked in the U.S. to support the Central American Free Trade Association. This is happening right now in Washington the topics being brought up. This is like the grandfather of laughter. So if we're interested in the U.S. and in Illinois about this topic what do we learn and what should we be doing. Excellent question. I think that a large part of the reason for the Army not only entering in to quell a

rebellion but staying there for all these 11 years indicates something more than just defusing a rebellion. The presence of the army began with the insurrection. There are about 13000 troops. During Salinas is presidency the last year that was augmented when President the CID deal came in. Inthe Sinton an invasion force of some estimated All told it was 60000 including those who were there. Imagine that you know 60000 with a at best an armed force of 2000 that is over kill and certainly represented a formidable force for the Zapatistas and for their supporters because there are many Christian communities who would object to raising arms in any setting but who

support the objectives of the Zapatistas. They've been living within villages that are now somewhat split because just the sheer desperation of people has caused them to respond to different inducements on both sides and the look of the internal fissioning process has begun. But the the reason is important as you suggest for us to pay attention to this is that there was. Plan a North American Free Trade Agreement to open up markets. And why should that bother indigenous people. These kind of corn cattle cultivation that was the backbone of their economy. It was important because North America and primarily the US Canadia Canada was another participant

in the agreement wanted to sell their crops but they were subsidized crops as corn for example. So they were selling subsidized crops at a lower price than it could be produced by small crop cultivators. Now although much of the corn had gone to subsistence and they did have cattle and other means of making a living this up at least is. And their supporters were not able to compete with this and gradually losing their plans to a big cattle owners right within the jungle area. So it was a threat to other crops. The same case is true. They were deuces in that in that trade rearrangement they came with enough that they were faced with the expansion of a free trade zone which includes Central America as well. And

while the plan Pueblo part of talks glowingly about increasing the exchanges among neighbors within the five countries of Central America they don't point out that that that that that those exchanges are dominated by external trade relations with big powers and B doesn't contribute towards a freer flow of goods within so much is towards the outside through the plan political party and through the expanded version of the trade nexus in the. We have the danger of peasants yet again supporting the building of an infrastructure of highways and hydroelectric dams that are prejudicial to their own interests. I've seen indigenous people out on the roads working to build the

highway that they don't even get to walk on because they get down in the ditches next to the roadway. They behave themselves and those roads are to take things out not to bring things in. And so if there are people here in this listenership who are concerned about this issue one action could be taken would be to express concern of. Have to go to their legislators. I think that we have to be an active communication with our congresspeople and indicate that we don't feel that is improving the lives of peasants. Then on the contrary these trade agreements that are made at the decisions from the people who are most affected are reversing the flow of capital capital is coming from peasants or the extremely exploitive labor conditions that they work under

to increase capital in the dominant countries not the reverse so that the trade acts have an effect intensified unexploited the dependency relationship today. Thank you very much and in the west question all I ask in all hangout is to ask. That would suggest that we take action in support of justice. What literally can we learn as you think. People from the Maya communities that we could in fact help in our own world. I think that the indigenous people who I know and those whom I've read about have a much more global way of thinking and I'm much more willing to embrace plural cultures than we are. March's some of our university centers are trying to and we have succeeded in some

small ways but their basic way of thinking is a global embracing of difference and of being aware of how important. To maintain their own distinctive ways of doing things because that adds to the richness and complexity of life not to the reverse it doesn't necessarily lead to conflict as many of the leaders would be in their own countries. This is especially true in Guatemala where there's a denial of difference as being the cause of conflict rather than seen it as a source of the rich exchange so I think we can learn from them in that respect I think we can also learn as some will release the Bishop of Chiapas has often reminded us of the spiritual values that they express in their relation with the environment their attempt to think of the future their children and grandchildren more

than we or at least our leaders especially at this point in history are thinking about those precious resources. One more caller here in ur Bana Lie number two. Hello. Yeah I was wondering if you didn't mention me. The military government which the U.S. has put into a lot of malign 1954 and which which after many many years of oppression of the. Lots of people. Call the Amerind Amerindian file and Amerindians in Guatemala. But basically we're talking about Maya kill as many as 200000 people and. And to put everything in perspective here you know if anybody has done something to damage the Mayan culture it certainly was to us.

I'm just curious are they aware of that. What do they have to they understand that that military government in Guatemala with cocoa from any of them was backed by the U.S. And you know with our ideas sort of speak. I think that during this past week in our conference this was discussed a lot. There is certainly an awareness in not just leaders that the U.S. had a great deal to do but many of them also see the implication of their own leaders who took advantage of the situation that was opened up to them through the various mechanisms the U.S. has fed the Guatemalan military in particular. They stopped aid in the peak of the genocidal attacks in the 80s but they have just resumed it I believe there was. A small apparently small a dispensation of about twenty

one million dollars for the Army and I think that's been approved. These are the kinds of things I mean it took a lot of public at Sion in the United States to try and stop that military aid back in the 80s and it may require that in the future. But the following The cool the U.S. was in it directly. They were acting through crusty you arguments who had been selected by them and others with the in Guatemala to carry out the actual invasion of the fields and killing of those who had taken lands and the land reform. There was an interim where U.S. action with some Peace Corps and I trained Peace Corps people back in the 60s and saw a very beneficial results from their work. That was then cross crossed out by a kind of military aid that went directly

to the leaders of the military rather than to leaders within communities. And that was the same period when Rios Montt then others mounted a campaign against the Mayan people and it took us a long time to figure that out. We are in danger now of again allowing that kind of military force to take precedence over peaceful missions but I think the US has the capacity to do both and and we might direct our efforts towards promoting the latter. I think that we are about at the point where we will have to stop because we have used our time for this part of focus 580. However for people who are here in and around Champaign-Urbana if you like to hear more from our guest June Nash distinguished professor emeritus of anthropology at City University of New York she will be giving a talk talking about some of this work that she has done with observing that Maya

studying social movements in Latin America. This is part of the miller come series among the sponsors the Center for Latin American and Caribbean studies at the U of I. Her talk will be this evening at 7:30 at the levels faculty center that's on the third floor. It's on West Illinois Street in Urbana. These programs are always free and open to the public anyone who was interested in attending should feel welcome. Thank you very much for talking with us. I thank you for having me here.