Focus 580; Fighting Racism in Contemporary America: A Jewish Activists Account

In this first hour of the show we'll be talking about right wing politics in Europe specifically and Austria. We have two guests with us here on the program and joining us here from the University of Illinois from our faculty Mattie bundle. He's assistant professor of anthropology and Jewish Studies at also a guest who is visiting the campus Doron Rabinovich. He is a writer historian poet from Vienna. He is well known in his country as a writer and a poet and also as a political activist. He's been a very important figure in the anti hider movement in Austria and there what we're talking about is the extreme right wing Freedom Party and its leader. A name that perhaps you may have heard and yet would say you don't know a great deal about and we're certainly going to be talking about him and his participation in politics in Austria. What that says about that country and also though about the more the larger issue of anti immigrant anti foreigner sentiment in Europe these days anti-Semitism. This is something

that our guest has been much involved in working against and he's here on the campus and will be spending a few days talking with students and faculty he'll also be giving a talk about this specific subject fighting racism in contemporary Austria as part of the miller cop series that will be taking place today 4:00 this afternoon at the levels faculty center on the U of A campus. And as is the case with all Miller com events it's free and open to anybody who'd like to attend so if you're interested certainly you should feel welcome to go in and hear his talk but he's been good enough to come here with us so that people who couldn't attend the talk can still hear some of what he has to say. And of course as we talk questions are welcome the number here in Champaign Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. We also have a toll free line good anywhere that you can hear us and that is 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 and if you match the numbers with letters on the phone you get w i l l which may or may not make it easier. Three three three W I L L and toll free

800 1:58 W while I'm well thank you both very much for being here. Thanks for hanging. Just to begin with and overview. It's it's striking when you start looking at this. In fact just how strong it parties on the right extreme right parties have become in recent years in Europe for example in Belgium. A party there made the best showing in local elections ever in the city of Antwerp in Denmark. There's a party and a extreme right party that gets 18 percent support in the country and apparently it's similar. And in Sweden Norway the Czech Republic Estonia Finland Russia in Poland sort of on and on. That invites the question why and why now particularly in the past few years have these parties these extreme right wing parties been

growing in strength. I think that one reason is that social problems are discussed in a different way. The last is discussed in a racist context. And. Some years ago when you had social problems you discussed about five concepts projects for society today who's blamed for the problems the migrants. This is this is something that goes on in the whole continent of Europe. What is the speciality in Austria is that after forty five in Austria Austria declared itself as being the first victim of Hitler. And that man that didn't pass as let's say in Germany and there are also other possibility for and to semantics or racism in politics. And that means that this is this is a difference that say between the bloc in

Belgium or the Freedom Party and also which is part of the government. And this is a problem that a party that was a that had a racist campaign in the elections of 99 with posters with posters which more or less had a racist campaign against Europeans and Africans for instance. Has now won seats in the government. Here's your kind of power bases in one particular part of the country but Matty shaking his head I guess. Here here's the question I was going to ask. My impression was his power base was in one place in particular and then I was going to ask well is there is there white fairly widespread rip support throughout Austria and it's not just the Corinthia where he is. He's the provincial governor of Carinthia which which is his

actual post that he occupies currently. He's not actually the leader. Technically speaking all the Freedom Party he will not have some party was but because there was so much controversy involving him he stepped aside but certainly for all intents and purposes he's still the head that's exactly what I was going to say and it's true that he is strongest in Carinthia where he actually has the majority which entitles him to be the provincial governor but he's frightening the strong all over Austria. Yeah I think that is not an exception. Carinthia is some kind of the the most explicit he can make his policy very clear because of the history of Carinthia. You have been minority Slovenian minority and therefore the German national fulls is very strong in Carinthia but the. It is also very strong in Vienna. The interesting thing with Freedom Party and with Yoko is always the link

also to the Nazis. He was once asked who the most cruel petitions of the 20th century and Churchill and Stalin. Now I have to say he's he's not a fascist. He's not he's not a he's not somebody like Hitler. But what he does is he tries to deny past. He tries to change the past so that it's a Parian Terry and racist future can be possible. And you always place with this past it's very important this is possible in Carinthia but it is possible. Old strip strip. And if you remember we had in 86 an election campaign and could buy time. The former general secretary of the U.N. became president of Austria. This was exactly the year

when your cat became the leader. You could see maybe through a bit of the Freedom Party and I think isn't it also really that that's the point when we really see a building in Austria of this idea of this idea that you pointed to earlier that Austria was the first were the first victims of that. Well that's interesting because that idea that Oscar was the first victim really has been enshrined in Austrian identity ever since World War Two in fact it was ironically aided and abetted by the allied forces who in 1943 in the so-called Moscow declaration argued that Austria was in fact the first victim of Nazi Germany in hope of promoting resistance in Austria. There is some truth to that there is some logic to that Austria was an independent country an independent nation state prior to the so-called annexation in 1938 and it is true that Germany took over and Austria became part of Germany so in terms of international law Austria did

indeed could indeed be seen as a victim of Nazi aggression and Hitler certainly you know mate went to great lengths to incorporate what he considered his his home. He hails from where he hailed from Austria into the right. What this sort of obscures is the fact that population overwhelmingly supported the annexation and those sentiments never really changed and I think 45 the question is how was 1945 experienced by the majority of Austrians. Was it experienced as a liberation which is what I would call it. Or was it experienced as a defeat which is what the majority of the ultra population would have seen to be happening now. This set in motion a kind of schizophrenia history graphical situation where Austria the official Austria state constructed itself as a victim. Where is the population side self. As you know the party that was defeated in the war. This is a very interesting contradiction because there was an interview in The Jerusalem Post with the chancellor. Sure school was conscious and he didn't only say that Oscar was the first victim of Hitler but

he even said that the Austrians were the first victims. The Austrians now in this country on this in the same time. The old comrades still have gatherings and and remember their dead comrades who fell in the fight for the German Reich. And you still have gatherings of roughness S and S S. So how can they be old victims. The interesting thing is that if you don't discuss this and this was the case in Germany in Germany after 45 there was a discussion about the past and also in the years of 68. The new generation discussed the past. In Austria this discussion just really started in 86 with and and

now it came to an end in a way because with with the entrance of the Freedom Party to the government what we experience is illegitimate religion of denial of the past and of racism. That's the big problem. And that's also the unique experience of Austria in Europe because in the other countries in Europe you have racist politics you have racist parties. But still they are not in the government. And partly I'm just I want to have you also talk a little bit about Mr. Churchill Crystal's party the People's Party one you know one would wonder why would you go into coalition with your hider. What where does the people's party. How do they talk about that. How does that party talk about these things. It's a fascinating question. Let me answer by giving one additional layer of context which might be sort of considered to be

fronting the Freedom Party is literally the successor party of the Nazi party the NSDAP the way that happened is that in 1945 when Austria was liberated the members of the Nazi party about 8 percent of the population were disenfranchised they were not allowed to vote in the election of 1945. The issue then became how well will happen to these to these voters. As soon as they would be re enfranchise which happen 1949 and there was there was a kind of debate going on and the big parties the social democrats left liberals and the Christian conservatives were basically bowling for those votes. What happened in the end is that a third party was formed the so-called party of independents and that party was basically became the kind of kind of party of the former Nazi. It was basically formed after and since the Nazis resented the fact that they were being that the two parties were going for their vote created their own parties. And I think in 1956 the party of Independence are your former Nazis renamed itself to the Freedom Party. So there is really a there's literally a direct link of

succession. Having said that this discord but to your question David. The People's party the People's Party sees itself as an anti fascist party in its in its basic definition which is to say to 1945 the two main parties that emerged in post-war Austria were again the Social Democrats and the Christian conservative Peoples Party both of which saw themselves in opposition and in antithesis to the Nazi past and very much the idea of Austria being the first victim you have the two parties that were victimized and were disallowed by the Nazis in a sense coming together forming the new coalitions in post-war Austria. It is a radical break with that party's history and that party's tradition and the party self-understanding as a democratic Christian based central party to actually going to qualify where the successor party of the Nazi party. Yeah this is exactly true. On the other hand the two parties as you said tried to get the votes of the nonces under 45. And and so you have peculiar things going on in Austria after 45 you have in the 70s

they had of Carinthia then is a social democrat. But he says to his voters I am proud that I had been in the Hitler Youth. Guy so and you have the popular party who was in favor of could time. And interestingly enough you had a certain fascism to a Terence system before the Nazis and to Austria. And this was the christers and Christian social return system. So the people party has several to this and it's more democratic. Even some liberal traditions and also this more authoritarian and closed I would say traditions and what happens now is. Sure wanted to become chancellor. He wanted it very much and he was the third to come out in the elections in 99 and launched what came out he was the loser of the elections but he was the winner

of the coalition talks. And that I think was the main reason why he formed a coalition with the Freedom Party because the Social Democrats would have been the strongest party we have a caller who's been waiting patiently. My apologies for keeping them we will get right to them and perhaps also I should introduce again our guests here in studio with us Mattie Bhonsle He's assistant professor of anthropology and Jewish Studies at University of Illinois and Doran Rabinovich He's a writer historian political activist has been a very important figure in the movement in Austria against the Freedom Party and its leader. He's here to talk. He be in it. In fact I'll be spending a number of days on the campus but one event no mention again he'll be talking about this specific topic as a part of the miller Cup series this afternoon at 4 on the UVA campus and if you're interested you can certainly attend the New questions are welcome. 3 3 3 W I L L or 9 4 5 5 we also have toll free line good anywhere that you can hear us that's 800 to 2 2 9 4 5

5. We do have a caller here to talk with in Champaign and on line 1. Hello Yes hello. Yes I have two points of criticism one general political and two from a Jewish point of view. The general political run is to me that the neo liberal regimes that dominate Europe and the United States right now have a kind of quasi fascism about them in their very corporate. There's a strong racial undertone and when you have something like the Freedom Party in Austria I see that is just a kind of a symptom of that larger problem. And I see it is kind of taking the heat off the problems of general Neo Neo neo liberal regimes that now dominate the economic system that cutback in social programs that that privatized and so forth from the Jewish point of view. I think that the emphasis on I realize is an interest emphasis on both the anti immigrant

and anti-Semitism the anti-Semitism seems not only minor but exaggerated in the sense that it seems to me there's a pattern by which we have a concern with anti-Semitism as a result of the Holocaust that is at this point in time 55 years later extremely misplaced and there's an avoidance of there there's an avoidance of the fact that Jews and as I say this as it you are no longer adept victims that we are we are indeed perpetrators. And I see so I'm very suspicious of speakers who regularly come to Champagne Urbana speaking of whatever anti-Semitism happens to exist in the world. But rarely do we have speakers that come through that speak of what is going on in Israel in the Middle East in general and that are critical of American support for Israel. So I have those two general concerns.

Well you respond any way you like. Yeah I'm I'm living in Austria and my main concern in fact is about the racism going on there. That means that and the racist movement. We are fighting for the rights of migrants for the rights of migrants to be elected in trade unions for the rights of migrants to vote in local elections for an anti discrimination law. But. In Austria the end isn't it isn't is is not such a big problem for the for 7000 Jews that live there. It is something else it's alleged to mation of the other racism that hits hundreds of thousand people of people and those of the African community living there under really unbelievable circumstances in the U-19 nine. I must say I was also active in the friends of peace in

Vienna but but personally I'm not a perpetrator. I don't have a this is not this is not the issue that I have to discuss. What I am I'm I'm also not a victim. I'm not a victim at all. Yeah I'm somebody who is active against racism I think that this is the main question. The segment just just do you feel that you have to struggle against a New York liberal regimes to govern Europe and that creates something like if you're a Freedom Party as they create resentment among the middle and working classes who are are also the victims of. Cutbacks in government programs and the moving around of jobs and and this race to the bottom that so character characterizes modern neo liberal globalized economic life. Do you feel that that's an important critique that you have to deal with. I think that what we see is that if you don't have a social vision

a social concept anymore then racism and the politics of resentments gets bigger in some countries in Australia it becomes very strong and it means something different than in other countries even if in other countries you have also antisocial politics what we experience now is that elected politicians self-governed bodies of workers let's say in Austria suddenly are dismissed by the government. So what we talk about is. The principles of democracy. So suddenly ignored which I don't mean that also is not a Democrat democracy anymore. We have a parliament and so on and so on. But the rights of the position that you have in other countries in Europe would have criticism about certain developments. But but these rights are granted and we see that plebiscite Tarion populist full of phrases and

just really no way to change his system. Well I hope that when you speak to the mostly Jewish people that you will meet in Champagne Urbana you will emphasize the fact the things you have just said that this is really not. This is not the whole cost. You know we revisit it. This is a more general economic and social problem directed primarily at non-Jewish immigrants. You know history and in other European countries as well. I mean when I say I need to jump in here for a moment for a couple of reasons I hope that the caller will forgive me first of all as were coming to the midpoint here I need to reintroduce our guests and also there as this is the first Tuesday of the month we are required to do a test of the emergency alert system so let's do that right now this is a test of the Emergency Alert System. A.

I. And this is AM 580 W while Urbana focus 580 again sorry for the interruption but as the message is we are required to do that at the bout this time every month. Let me again introduce our guests here in the studio with us Mattie bundle He is assistant professor of anthropology and Jewish Studies at University of Illinois Durrant Rabinovich She's a writer historian poet also political activist from Vienna Austria. Among other things has been important figure in the anti Freedom Party movement in Austria that is the extreme right wing party. Lead by your good hider and he's visiting the campus to

talk about this and other things as well. Questions welcome 3 3 3 W I L L toll free 800 1:58. Well I've sort of jumped in on you before and I don't know if Maddy you wanted to make some comment on what the caller had. Absolutely I think I was an incredibly important point that's really worth discussing. I just wanted to point out again an irony. In Europe the main agent of neoliberal change transformation is that you. It's the European Union and one could very easily read parties like the Freedom Party in Austria the farm's bloc in Belgium and related parties as a resistance against the. It's very much an attempt to preserve the nation state to preserve its rigid boundaries to preserve a kind of ethnic authenticity. Be that Austrian German Danish ness. Belgium this against the neoliberal transnational flows of migrants commodities etc. that's being instituted bet you. So it's really dangerous in some ways to try to in a sense warn against as are the

neoliberal threats of that are out there and that while completely agree that the Freedom Party is a symptom and in fact of these neo liberal forces they are also actually very self-consciously forms of resistance and I'll just give one last layer of context. Austria joined the EU very late Austria joined the EU in 1995. And as in every other country that wants to join the EU there has to be a referendum in the country. That referendum was quite contested in Austria and obviously it was approved in the in the joint. But of course the main force of opposition against the EU against joining this neo liberal organization was your party and your Hyder basically put his entire political credit credibility on the line to argue against joining the EU on grounds of preserving Australia's national integrity on preserving Austria's history on the danger of being overcome overrun by foreigners. Be those migrant migrant laborers be those Eastern Europeans and retain to this day is a mainstay of their their policies is a basic

position. So I just wanted to add that from well I'm I'm interested in maybe talking about a couple of other things having to do with what's happening with the Freedom Party recently just because again I have read about them and I wondered you know it just is this is a serious problem for them or not. The fact that allegations were made last year that the party paid police informants for secret information that they could use against their opponents. Also last fall the party had its worst electoral defeat since 86. Then also in the fall I think one of the Freedom Party cabinet ministers said I'm exhausted I'm leaving. And of course there was huge controversy at near the end of the year when York hider visited the Vatican and met with the pope. Does does any any of that point to any sort of significant weakening of support for the party or weakening of strength of the party the party as a party of scandals but just not

not only in the last year they had a lot of scandals in the years before but this was not so important. One of the main problems was that you didn't have to believe had to believe in hiding. You knew that he was a liar. But in one thing he had to stay true in his racism and xenophobia politics. But now he's in another situation and the parties in another situation. On one hand they have a real movement as an enemy. And you know people tend to see if there is a struggle going on between one movement and the other movement they back off and think OK let's let's just maybe maybe it's not such a good thing to be with them. This is one thing they met opponents. But then there is another thing. They are in government.

So no it is true that people think OK they are not so much better when their government but there isn't this. I have I have to say that what happened to us in Austria never the less even if they are weaker than they were before. Something has happened. The policy the policy was legit diminished. And this can mean that racism as a tool is getting to be becoming just like another tool in politics this is one thing and the other thing is that had a managed because he stepped back and he is now the head of Carinthia and he is no more the head of the party but he is inside of the coalition. So is his in a peculiar situation. He is the opposition to the government.

He says to the people. Nothing changes. What did we do this all about. We still have this and this and this and this in this and on the other hand he is inside and this is this. This is a dangerous situation and we knew it from the beginning on. Nevertheless I think that now he is in a dilemma and it is possible it is possible that he will not overcome his crisis. But if he can overcome the crisis it is also possible. Still I think possible that he becomes chancellor of Austria which would really be a catastrophe. Because what what happens then is that the European Union would have to face that one of its politicians would be only an Austrian politician. This would be a European politician. So the reaction of the European Union was so strong not because of the Austrian situation but because of their

European fears. And I think that was very right it's a new opening question and the question is will you opinion find a democratic way. And it was a social vision. So that all these forces can be really weakened. Well can you really imagine such a thing happening that if you're caught or becoming head of the the government. I have to say that most of my friends and most of most of the journalists in Austria think that this is not going to happen anymore. But I have to admit that I was very skeptical in the last years. I bet with my friends on the election outcome and I have to tell you that I won which I was not fond of. And then I had another bad about the coalition but the coalition talks

and I was also winning this one so I hope that this time I'm wrong. It has to be added that your kind is an unbelievably skillful politician. I mean it's you know for those of us in you know in an opposition to him and it's frightening. I mean it's a frightening to watch him operate and he's quite he's quite brilliant. He also consumes sort of the intellectual energies of the Austrian left or you know sort of the Austin intelligentsia I mean he essentially is that the topic of every single conversation that any of us ever have in a coffee house. And he really is at the at the heart and soul of Oscar's public sphere. There was a period of time there were sanctions imposed on Austria by. The other countries in the EU I'm interested in how it is that the sanctions came to be lifted and then there was you know that seemed to be something of a triumph for me that's too big a word for history. So then you know I found it

possible for him to travel and he went to I think it was Ireland which after having been under this cloud for some period of time. How how how exactly did that happen when the coalition was formed they agreed upon measurements. I wouldn't say that there were sanctions against Also the measurements against a government they didn't want to have by national meetings with other government members of Austria. You know the government members of states. Only in the work on the European Union level but not as a friendly act. And the opposition in Austria got under such pressure under such pressure that the opposition parties wanted the rippin Union to lift this measurements.

Then they had three politik of Europe coming to Austria. And speaking with you know with the main parties they also I also had a meeting with them and they were very sympathetic to our cause. But as the opposition party said that the measurements are contra productive and they should be lifted they did it. Not without saying harsh critic against the Freedom Party. But again you're absolutely right. What came out was that the government has won and this is I have to admit that this this is this was to be foreseen because they had to check if the human rights situation in Austria still is democratic. Now we never said that this government is a dictatorship. We never said that this government in some month is going to change the human rights

situation. What we said is that a certain type of politics is the truth and this is what really happened. But moreover some things have happened that really are a human rights problem. The minister of justice in Austria is the person other told me of your character. He personally brings people in front of trial who criticize the Freedom Party. He personally phones newspapers saying that this is this person. Is brought in front of trial. York had proposed that when somebody criticizes the government out of Austria when he's a traitor to all stress he says as maybe me now and he is a member of parliament he should he should lose his seat in Parliament and be brought in front of trial he proposed that the head of the Social Democratic Party should be in jail for one year.

And the minister of justice at first said this proposal is thinkable it is worth to think about. So I think this is something that really changes the Republic and this affair with the spies in the police. One can be sure that their opponents are spied upon and this is this is this is really a problem I think. Well are there just to take that one step further there are. Can you point to ways in which government you would say that government official government policy laws that were enacted were directly result of participation of the Freedom Party in the government. I wouldn't say so no I can't say that that I'm so sure that in this year what they did is much more on the administration level or to change the postes or to make a new climate.

But I can't say and I wouldn't say that the democratic structure of Austria's and strong enough. And this is something that also one has to be and mind also is part of the European Union. So the Freedom Party cannot do anything that it wants. Also just just to add and I completely agree with agreeing with everything Donna saying let's take immigration policies for example which is obviously a crucial issue in all of this. The government was in power before her and her government which is a coalition between the Social Democrats and the Christian conservatives. That government instituted incredibly harsh and restrictive immigration policies so which actually they implemented in large part in order to stay stay one step ahead of hight or higher was basically demanding restriction immigration policy that government was instituting those restrictions in hope of curtailing persistent rights which is all to say that height it isn't. You know there's not that much of how it would want to change in for example current immigration policies you can't

have it be much more restrictive than it is at this point already. Nevertheless there is a discussion going on between the popular party the Freedom Party and their Freedom Party doesn't want anyone to ration at will and the Popular Party needs for the for the. Economic reasons immigration which just goes back just the irony about the neoliberal question. I mean you know if you are if you believe in the liberal politics then immigration is hardly the way to go especially in a country with zero population growth which is the case in Austria as everywhere else in Europe. I should mention here we have about 10 minutes left and I introduce Again our guest We're talking with Doran Rabinovich. He's a writer historian political activist from Vienna. And as we have said he's been a very important figure in the movement against of the extreme right wing Freedom Party of York hider he's here to talk about this in a Miller come talk he'll be spending a few days on the campus will be talking about this this afternoon 4:00 o'clock at the Levy's

faculty center on the UI campus anyone's interested in attending. Also here in studio with us many Bhonsle He's assistant professor of anthropology and Jewish studies and was primarily the person involved in bringing Rabinovich here to the campus and questions are welcome 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 1. I also would like to have you talk about the. Some of the activities that you have been involved in and and particularly this demonstration that happened I guess about a year ago in and was that you had the largest crowd for a post war demonstration in. Yeah. In Austria. We had three hundred thousand two hundred fifty one can quarrel about that thousand people on the street. And the interesting thing is I think that is really something great about about this movement. Before we did not discuss about racism in Austria we discussed about the past we

discussed about anti-Semitism in the past. We discussed but could divide time. But now really the discussion about racism and about the social backgrounds. Why what what about this politics. We had a demonstration of the 12th November after the election and we had the moment when the coalition was formed. By the way exactly one year ago on the 4th of February 2000 on the second to February we. We organized a spontaneous demonstration. And from the 2nd of February till the 19th of February when we had this big demonstration without organizing it every day there was a demonstration in the streets of Vienna not organized not announced. Nobody knew where to go to but everybody knew Word will meet on a certain place. And the interesting thing was it was organized. This is really something new

by the Internet and with cell phones so people learned where the demonstration is just in this moment. And and this is an interesting thing because the demonstration itself was something like I would call it a readymade. I would call it a demonstration which is a democracy. Credit is Asian because you didn't have central slogans. Everybody broke his own slogan. And there were a lot of of jokes on this on these demonstrations and a lot of creativity. Then we had this big demonstration with Michel with Ben Ali Livy with a lot of European personalities prominent figures people from last season and afterwards the group that I'm active in is one can say established the most established. Part of this movement.

And I'm the speaker of this of this group and we started to organize symposiums and we had this this this fall we had a symposium with you discussing about the situation. You know Europe about their comical background of what is going on in Europe about the situation of the migrant workers in France in Germany about the racist events in Eastern Germany for instance the situation in Belgium with a flounce bloc and especially what it means in Austria. So the interesting thing is what happens on the 19th of February we declare. We announced on the on this on this day that every Thursday there will be a demonstration in Ghana. Maybe you know that you need to love traditions. They don't like demonstrations but they love traditions. And after a certain time this started to be a tradition. So the first demonstration is something that

still goes on I wouldn't have believed it. Since one year there's the racist demonstrations in Iran and I think this is very important. We have another caller here one make sure we get I mean at the time it remains which is about five minutes someone here on a cell phone line for Hello. Yes. I was just learning a little bit background with the economic situation in Austria. The unemployment for the highly skilled is what is the unemployment. General what is the unemployment for. For highly skilled people. What is the tax situation. And is there some economic reasons behind. These This racism and that we can get into a little bit more than the specific policies. Thank you.

Good. Good question. You want to talk about it. Yeah the interesting thing is that Australia is in a social very good situation it is not strong. It's not it doesn't have an high unemployment rate and I think it has the lowest unemployment rate in only in Europe. And I think in a certain way one has to say it's a paradox. You can't afford this kind of politics. If people would really be scared of a dictator because of the radicalization of politics maybe in the moment that would scare they would get to just step back a little bit. But they have the impression that something is not working anymore as it worked in the 17th and 80s and this was the social partnership. Then when you had a certain party book you got an apartment you got to drop everything was fixed. This has changed in the last years. One can say is it good is it bad. It's this is this is the thing that you can discuss a public discourse about. But but one thing is clear as it doesn't work anymore.

A lot of people thought then let's change the system. It's not a social partnership it would be a national partnership against those who are not true Austrians. So let's say somebody who is an Austrian citizen and enters a social building a social building house. And because of the Citizenship is a lot to live there. But he is not he was not born in Austria. Well he doesn't look as a lot of Austrians think Alston should look like because his skin is a little bit Daco something like this. Then the Freedom Party is going to spread leaflets there and say look the foreigners living in so-called foreigners living in the building so what. What I see is that a certain type of welfare state doesn't function anymore. And here comes the races and here the race really works.

We're quick to point here we have a couple of minutes left and I guess I I would like to just as a way of finishing to ask a question. I would imagine perhaps some people listening you know might say well this is all really quite interesting. But what's it got to do with us here in the United States I mean is there some reason why this country should be concerned about Austrian politics or this this tendency that we've seen in other places to have to have some growth in strength of the of the extreme right not just in Austria but other places. I think it is really an international topic because first of all we have to ask ourselves what will be the future of the European Union. And this is really. An international question is it going the way that you're kind of wanted to be a continent of nationalism a continent of aggression. Or is it going to be a Democratic a more democratic and social content. And this is one thing the other thing is I think that the question of

migration in time isn't international question. How are we going to make this Democratic. How are we going to make our will Democratic which which rich rights important for micro cause and to make discriminations of what happens if we don't have an end to discrimination. What happens if we allow racist politics. What can we do against this. Well I think that one of the one of the outcome of our activity you know is you have there's only one tool against racist politics and that is to give a possibility to the migrant workers to speak out against it to be present as human beings. So that in the media and in the politics so that this won't happen. And it's also a question how you organize a state and citizenship and also

you really have the notion of true strands which even if you have a citizenship you still cannot be sure to be part of the true ones. And this is a problem. We're going to have to leave it at that with again the mention though that for people who are in and around Champaign-Urbana if you'd like to hear more on this topic from our guest on a bit he'll be talking about fighting racism in contemporary Austria. That's part of the Miller camp series today this afternoon 4:00 o'clock at the levels faculty center on the campus anyone welcome to attend. Thank you very much. Thank you appreciate it and also many Bhonsle system professor of anthropology Jewish Studies thank you very much.