Focus 580; Under Deadmans Skin: Discovering the Meaning of Childrens Violent Play
- Transcript
This morning and this hour the focus will be talking about the violent play of children violent and aggressive behavior in kids is something that concerns almost everybody It certainly concerns parents. It also concerns teachers. We're concerned when we see kids in volved in violent play perhaps inspired by violent movies that they've seen or violent video games and we ask ourselves how do we stop this that's probably the one of the first questions that that parents teachers ask and then pretty quickly you begin to discover that at the very least you can't just say stop it and expect the behavior to stop because when the kids are off on their own they're pretty much going to do whatever they want. Perhaps the key lies in understanding a little bit better where this comes from and what it's about and what try to explore this territory this morning with our guest. Her name is Jane catch. She is the author of a book that explores this territory which is titled under dead man's skin. The subtitle discovering the meaning of children's violent play. If the book is published by the Beacon Press out
of Boston Jane catch counseled emotionally disturbed children with Bruno Bettelheim at the famous ortho genic school she also taught kindergarten with Vivian Paley at the University of Chicago Lab School. She now teaches young children in central Massachusetts and the book is based on some of her classroom experiences as a teacher trying to confront this particular issue with her own students. And as we talk of course questions comments are welcome. All we ask of people is that you try to be brief in your comments so we can keep things moving along. Anybody though is welcome to call 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Miss Gach Hello. Well thanks for talking with us today. I'm glad to be here. The it does indeed seem to this whole book and you're thinking about the subject did seem to come from your reaction to the violent play that you saw the kids in your kindergarten class These were I guess five and six year olds engaging in. And you were concerned about it and. As I
said it sounds as if you very quickly came to the realization that in the classroom you could say we don't do that out. But then once they got out of there and got out of the playground they were going pretty much do whatever they wanted so it seemed that that fairly quickly the you came to the idea that just saying no was not not going to be a strategy that would work. That's exactly right. I didn't like hearing it in the classroom and I could make rules in the class that the children would have to go by because I was right there hearing them. But as soon as children are out playing on their own in the playground or also in their backyard at home they're going to play the fantasies that are important to them. So I decided that it would be more helpful to them for me to understand what it was about this play that was so important to them and help them. Be able to negotiate rules for keeping their place safe. And this is the school where you were teaching. This was and correct me if I have this
wrong but this was a private school. This was and no doubt I'm sure the parents or at least some of the parents sent their kids there because they thought that it was a a safe place a positive environment for their kids perhaps more safe more positive than public school. And yet here these children probably were not. I would imagine many ways would not end up being that different at least in this dimension we're talking about then children who were would be going to the public school down the street or across town. When I talk to teachers from many different schools and daycare centers as well it seems to be a problem that's pretty pervasive these days that children are playing games that worry their parents and their teachers because of its violent content. Now children have been playing games that involve violent fantasies for as long as I am aware of when I was a kid. We played cowboys and indians or Peter Pan and the pirates. But I think that the
violent content of movies has become more explicit. And the children in this particular group as well as in other groups that I've heard of were playing games that had much more explicitly violent content. The book at the opening of the book you talk about the first chapter is titled The suicide game. You talk about this kids that this game that your children your five and six year olds invented. You had the 5 and 6 year olds in my class have invented a new game called suicide. What what is the suicide game. Well in this game and I have to say I don't know where it came from. That these this age children were even for milieu with the term. But in this game some children were what they called the master and other children were what they called the slaves and the masters would tell the children children who were pretending to be the slaves what to do to commit suicide in some way. They would say Here have this ball and then after the child took it they would say
actually it was a bomb and you're going to explode. And everyone was having a great time. The children who were pretending to explode were laughing as well as the children who were giving them the script. And I was the only one who was uncomfortable with it as hard as I could see. But I felt as though something some adult response was necessary for this. It didn't feel OK to me. So what is your initial response was my initial response was to stop the game completely because it made me uncomfortable. But I realized after watching the children play for a while that if I stopped a game like this the violent content would come out in some other way. They would play a game that was a little bit different. They would pretend that their what had been their weapons a minute ago their pointed fingers were actually fire hoses. And they just became more deceitful about what they were playing it was so clear that
playing those games was something that was very important to them to do. This is you shared your concern I know with other teachers and also with parents and I'm expecting that as well the parents some of them at least had done what they could to raise peaceful children. These are the parents who perhaps the kind of. Parents of our generation who maybe we grew up one way but then we thought well we're concerned about violence and kids so we decided that we weren't going to give them toy guns. And and of course that in the end but it didn't work. Some of the children who loved this kind of violence in their fantasy were not allowed to play with toy guns at all. Others were it didn't seem to be a direct connection between what the parents rules for and whether the children were interested in this kind of play. Now let me point out that when I'm talking about violence here I'm not talking about
children actually getting hurt. They could be playing with each other in ways that were very careful of their safety. We had several rules to ensure the safety of the children and their play one was that even if they played a game that involved some kind of a violent fantasy let's say they were pointing their finger and saying bang. They couldn't. Touch each other while they were playing that game. So no one was actually getting hurt. In reality. It was a fantasy that was in the content. And I thought that that's interesting that that one of the things that you did and you actually did this in collaboration with the children was to develop some rules and you came up with what you call the rules for Interestingly the rules for violence that you put some to put some limits on the play and what you sort of could do and what you couldn't. Absolutely there were two kinds of rules. The first rule for the ones that I set as the teacher they protected the children safety both physical safety and emotional safety
and included in those rules were things like no touching when you pretend to fight. And no exclusion. The rule we called you can't say you can't play. Those were rules that I made to make sure that everyone was safe and was thriving in the classroom. Now the rule that I encourage the children to construct were rules about things where safety was not an issue. But they could make their own rules for the game that would make the game fair and would ensure that the game went well so that when they came in from playing the recess game they would come in settled without a lot of arguments left over from recess that were interfering with their classroom behavior. And that you were one of the things I guess you were concerned about was how how recess what would happen after recess and what sort of feelings and maybe excess energy and whatever the kids brought into the classroom
because certain you were interested in this idea. Maybe what. What is it that I can do that the kids then will come back to the classroom and will be relatively settled so that we can then get down to doing some other things. Exactly when I started to look at this issue I assume that if the children played games with violent fantasy content out at recess those were the days that they came into the the room after recess and had trouble settling down. When we began to talk about recess when they came in. Discovered that that wasn't always the case that in fact on the day that they came in unsettled and upset it was more likely to be because they felt the game wasn't fair or because some exclusion had been going on. That made some children feel left out and angry and that was what was bubbling over and coming back into the room afterward. And I think here this this gets at what is a central sort of idea and a kind of understanding that I think you came to as a result of thinking about it
and also talking with the children about it and I guess one boy in particular who was a little bit older than the children that you had in your class. And this seems to be it seems to me to be an important insight and it's probably also one of those that when we start talking about it people will say well of course as if everybody knew that. And yet I think that it is a I'm not sure that that is something that we really do recognize and this is all this is by way of saying that you're kind of the idea that you came to was that one way and another that violent behavior in children perhaps a violent game playing it at the very least is a response grows out of their feelings of vulnerability. That's right. And in fact there were very few incidents. Of any actual violence during their play this was a group
that played together quite well in terms of not hating each other or losing their temper. But the incidents that did happen revolved around exclusion where a child would be excluded and called a name mama's little baby was one example and then other children felt as though they could push that child down because he was in this other category that they were against. And when I talk to older children about the issue of violence they gave me several similar examples of times in their lives when they had been called a name and hit are knocked down and apparently for no other reason more or less out of the blue. So it began to seem to mae as though exclusion had to connections with violence one was that an excluded child could over time become very angry and feel as though violent
was justified. To rectify the situation because he had been so badly treated by his peers and the other incidents were one where children excluded someone and then felt justified in hurting that child because he was excluded. So the gist I suppose one of the one idea you come away from this with is the the basic idea that for for all of us and probably does depend on what your age is that being feeling accepted being included is is a very important thing and that you know that we're we're also very sensitive about our identities and when someone comes along and knocks you. That's a really uncomfortable painful thing. And perhaps we wouldn't you know one might respond to that by withdrawing in a social and
psychological way but also one might respond by acting out. That's right. Copeland did describe situations like that where having been called a name or excluded they felt as though they had the right to rush back at the people who had been excluding them. Where they get there there's a question there. Where is that. Is that a natural response or is that a learned response and if it's a learned response then where do they get the idea that somehow that's. Justified or perhaps called for. That is to lash out in response for being excluded. It seems to start very early and I can't answer the question about whether it's natural or learned but in teaching even younger children 4 and 5 year olds. I've noticed that it seems as though as soon as the children are aware that there's a
group out there that they would like to be long to they very often exclude someone else from that. It seems to make them feel more secure in relation to that group to be able to say to somebody else you are not enough. It also invites some thought at least about whether the the higher whether human beings it with are somehow fundamental to our nature is is the idea of hierarchy. And there is a section in the book and I suppose one could could go too far with this but where you were visiting a friend who had puppies and you spend some time watching them and one of the things we know about essentially about dogs is that they are domesticated wolves and you can learn a lot about dog behavior. I'm told by looking at Wolves and how they behave they're pack animals
and hierarchy those are very important and individuals will rise as high in the group as they can and they're sort of programmed to do that and that then you can see the consequences of course if you have a dog in your interest in raising them and training them you better sort of understand those things to. Then we come to look at the question OK now by looking at that can we being in it at the same time being careful about just how far we take that. Can we then draw some lessons about human behavior and human motivation. I'm not a naturalist and so I also was careful about the parallels that I made but I was struck watching the puppy at some of the similarities between their play and the play that I was seeing in school. And it was fascinating to me. For example there was a child in the class who. Was. Constantly
seeming to need to express his importance in terms of gaining power over other children. And if someone else had something he wanted it or he would try to get one better than whatever it was. And when I watched these puppies they were playing the same game where the one of the lead puppies would see another puppy with a stick and immediately go to get that stick. And then as soon as he got that he would look for what another puppy had and would go after that one. And. Although I think you can take that too far because of course there are many differences between children and puppy. It was helpful to me to see. The play in that perspective because it made me feel as though this wasn't a mean kind of play that was going on it wasn't intended to be hurtful to the other. Child who you know
Dick was being taken away. It was it was a testing of strength in a way that's pretty normal. And I understand a lot more understandable. I hear it you know and this gets us into territory that sort of difficult because that is thinking about. Human behavior and what determines it how much of it might be programmed into us and how much of it is. A result of socialization. And in recent years I think people have written all sorts of things about. What about our current day behaviors are a result of our long heritage and can go back to a long long time ago and when people live different ways than they do now. But you do sort of wonder. How one balances these the two tendencies that I think we see in human beings. One is this tendency to
to engage in this kind of. Trying to climb on top of the other person activity and rising is high in the group as you possibly can and and perhaps some suggestion that aggressiveness is natural. The other that one would argue the reason human beings have been successful is that they're also by their nature cooperative and that people do sometimes make decisions they do things that are good for everybody not just necessarily that's good for just them. So if we recognize that we have some of all of the some of both of those things in us and then we also recognize that we'd say well I think we'd like to try to encourage one and in the some sense dampen down the other. How is it actually possible to do that. I think it is possible to do that and it was one of the most rewarding part of the year with the children was watching that happen.
The way it worked in my class was when the children would come in from play feeling upset. We would talk about what had happened and. We would make rules about how to make the play go more smoothly. Now when we had those discussions. The ground rules for the process were that every child who wanted to speak. Could speak and would be listened to so that all opinions first could be put out for everyone to hear. And then we would come to some kind of a compromise that would enable all the children playing the game to feel good about the new rules so. That rather than voting in a situation where almost half the children could be unhappy they had to accommodate every child's needs in the game which meant a very careful process of listening to each other
and coming up with compromise that satisfied everyone. So in that process the children both were able to express their needs. To play aggressively but also had to really listen to each other and a way that was very constructive for the whole group. We're just about at the midpoint already of this conversation and that's our focus and I have a call or we will talk with in just a moment. I should introduce Again our guest. Her name is Jane catch. She teaches young children in central Massachusetts. She counseled emotionally disturbed children with Bruno Bettelheim at the orthodontic school she also taught kindergarten with Vivian Paley at the University of Chicago Lab School. She's written about her experiences this year that she spent with the five and six year olds and she did a lot of thinking about children's violent play she describes all of this in her book under dead man's skin. The subtitle is discovering the meaning of children's violent play. It's published by the Beacon Press and questions here are welcome 3 3
3 9 4 5 5. We also have toll free line good anywhere that you can hear us 800 to 2 to 9 4 5 5. We do have a caller here to talk with on our line number one. Hello. I am struck from several of your examples of. Sameness between. Some adult behavior and some group adult behavior and the children's behavior you're describing. And how else to describe how we treat each of us treat homosexuals for instance. You separate them and then some people feel that that is an excuse for violence against them. The same thing was true of those who were considered after Jews homosexuals gypsies in Germany and some other example that you gave. And now it's in the time since I first called and now I've forgotten what it was. But I. Would say that some of us haven't grown up
or that these childhood issues and traits continue on in a large number of people I know what the other example was of that in a couple that's separating where one of the of the people is tends to be violent. The most dangerous time is during that rejection when for instance when a divorce is being finalized or so forth and so forth when a woman is trying to get away as an example and it seems to me that the same thing is what you're talking about where where a child who feels rejected feels that it's OK to respond with violence. And thoughts. I'm having trouble with my connection. Could you repeat could David could you repeat that question for me. I think well I think that the caller was suggesting that you can see in adults
the essentially the same kind of behaviors and that particularly when we talk about out groups in society gays and Jews minority groups that the same some of the same kind of behaviors are exhibited by adults and perhaps your suggestion is that maybe some of that adult behavior grows out of. These childhood issues that we have been talking about and it's something that people can carry with them for a long time. That certainly is my hope that by helping children to understand at a very young age that differences of opinion are interesting and you can listen to other people's opinions or learn something from that and come to some kind of accommodation so that everyone can make rules for safety and for the benefit of the whole group. I'm hoping that having those experiences as young children will
be something they'll remember as they get older. Very interesting things. Thank you for the call and. Other questions are welcome 3 3 3 W I L L toll free 800 1:58 WFLA. Something that I think also is interesting. In that you write about is how these behaviors. Differ along gender lines and that problem that that boys and girls do engage in some of the same kind of behavior although perhaps they do it in different ways. Essentially it's it's the same. There were more boys than girls by far in this group who were interested in this kind of violent fantasy but there were girls who enjoyed it either consistently or from time to time. It seemed to mei in this group more frequent that the girls would stop
to wonder about it and that they would want to. Be looking around while they were playing to make sure that everybody was OK during it. For example one day at lunch one of the girls was watching some boys talk about their battleship that they had made out of popsicle sticks in the morning and she said why do boys like that so much. Another example was a girl playing in the midst of. Boys violent fantasy Who would want to make sure that everybody had a rule that it was OK for them. If you and she said to one boy you know if you don't get a part that you like tell me. I'm the mother and I'll help you. So that seemed to be more typical of a girl's role. And again like that invites the question where is it five or six. Why
should there be that. Difference and why even at that age should girls or some girls at least be so concerned about that issue of getting people included and getting people. Taken care of. It was a fascinating question to me too and I don't know the answer to that although I did notice when I was looking at my friend Poppy that she had a female puppy that did the same thing while we were talking. She came over to my friend and started making little puppy noises. And when we went out to look. Two of the boy dogs had knocked over the garbage can. And she was coming in to say the boys are misbehaving. That's right. Although the girl it does seem seem that some of the girls at least were capable of doing the same sort of exclusion. I know nothing about. They just lay there do it. There there they are doing it differently but they're also doing it.
They were quieter about it. Certainly in this group. One girl would compliment everyone in the group of girls around her compliment their clothes except for the one girl that she didn't care for. And so it was very hard to for me to pinpoint what was going on that was making this girl feel excluded because you can't exactly criticize somebody for not complimenting another person. But the girl that was doing the exclusive complimenting knew what she was doing because as soon as she saw that I was watching her she complimented the last girl. What's up with some of the folks here other urban a person. Number one. Hello. Hello. I'd like to make a couple of comments about a couple of studies that were done and one is that a study was done with children from the United States.
Children from a third world country. And children in England and the set up was that the children had to cooperate in order to reach a common goal. And the children in the third world country did this automatically without any suggestion whatsoever that children an Angolan had to be coaxed a little bit the children in the United States never got it. And the assumption was that this is such a competitive society and we foster it all of the competitive sports the comparing of grades close that they're in school that it doesn't occur to children that they can cooperate even when there is a valued goal to be reached by
cooperation. It is just not in their experience. And the other situation was it was one which I did myself. I didn't set it up as a test. It sort of turned out to be that way and this was with high school kids. Actually honor Jr. is in a high school where I was subbing one day and they were pretty rambunctious so I suggested a kind of game and that was that it was a class in creative writing. I suggested that verbally we make up a story where one person would do the first sentence and then pass it around the room. And I reviewed that what makes a short story you know to develop a character is they tend to lead up to some kind of a climax and then some kind of. Who lives in the Saturn. So the first
person gave one statement and one sentence and the next person immediately introduce some kind of violence. The next person introduced violence which had nothing to do with the violence before that and it went on and around around the room. Again I reiterated it reiterated what made up a short story that the qualities that were unnecessary. They were never able to move away from the violence. And my assumption was that they don't have any choice. Their imagination is you know there's such a poverty of imagination. And I think they get it from television. Not because of the content of television so much as that there is never any choice about what is going to happen next. It is always aimed towards violence.
And I would like to has some comments about that I'll hang up and listen. All right well certainly the the caller raises a number of interesting points and no wonder what you think about that particular maybe starting with the first idea that perhaps what what this is a symptom of is the fact that American society is highly competitive and we we train children to be competitive. I think that the reassuring piece of that. Disturbing study I guess you could say is that I think that children can learn to be more cooperative. And the fact that they are doing it more in third world countries or more in England. Maybe confirm that idea and I see as the year goes on in my class where we are working on those issues so consistently all year. That is the year goes on the
children are able to solve more and more of their problems themselves. In the beginning of the year I really have to do spend a lot of classroom time working on compromises and then as the year goes on they begin to be able to listen to each other and negotiate compromises and agreement. Theyll come in from recess and tell me about something that they've worked out themselves and then toward the end of the year. They didn't even always tell me they just knew that they could. This was something that they could do and parents would report that they heard it at home with the neighborhood children or with siblings and the children were learning to do that on their own. So I do think that it's something that when we adults emphasize that children can really learn to do it. The the other story that the caller told us reminds me of one of the sections of the book actually you talk about the fact that
at one point during the year a niece of yours who was a college sophomore. Back from Zimbabwe and Africa where she had been working at a school for fizzy physically handicapped children and she came back and she showed you some pictures of some of the kids and talked about that. And you asked her to come in and talk with your students which she did. And then at one point you asked her to tell us a story a kind of a traditional African sort of story which was rather gentle in nature and about things like overcoming your fears and unreasonable fears and working together and cooperating on a lot of good positive values. And then you tried to get the children to tell to make up stories in that style with some of those sort of values and it seemed that just couldn't and it gets back to this perhaps also to the issue of media and exposure to
media and whether or not we have stories that we can tell and can make up that help to put across the values that we would like children to have it seems that we have a difficult time coming up with stories like that. I think that's true and I think there are two issues here. One is what are the stories that as a culture we're giving to our young children traditionally cultures have taught children through story emphasized the values of the culture at a level that a child is ready to understand. And as the child grows older the story can become more complicated or they can get deeper meanings out of those same story. Now it does seem as though we are more and more presenting our children with stories that are not intended to be for their growth and for the
growth of their moral values in our culture. Certainly the children are being bombarded with a lot of stories that are just either for excitement or pleasure of people who have made them up or are for the purpose of making money and selling movie. So it's a very different kind of story that our children are hearing. So that's one pace and the other piece is whether the children have time to play their own story. Because I think that's where a lot of constructive imagination comes from is the ability to have the time to know what one's own stories are and to play them out with other children who could hear them and add to them and change them. And a lot of children are too busy. Well in this again it gets me to thinking about the issue of media and violence which is something that certainly that's good to be thinking about but
that perhaps you need to look at it. At a somewhat deeper level that is yes it will probably should be concerned about violent entertainment and children seeing that. But as perhaps as important maybe a little bit more important is to go beneath the surface and say what it what actually is the story here what's the what's the point to be it that's being made. Is there indeed any point that's being made. And that. Those values maybe are going to be important or or problematic and we ought to be thinking about that too. In addition to this issue of. Violence right I think for instance fairytales have quite a lot of violent content but they're usually first of all moral because the hero or heroine is overcoming obstacles to meet an important goal. And second
of all they're tailored to the age of the child it's going to be listening to them. So if you have a young child and you're telling fairy tales or reading fairy tales to that child you'll pick the ones there are appropriate for that child. And you're likely to see the child's reaction and see whether it's too frightening and if it is you'll tone it down or pick a different story. So I think the relationship with the child hearing the story is also important. This is certainly something that. I don't know if mentor is the right word to use but. Bruno Bettelheim wrote a lot about this as something he was particularly interested in. That's right he thought there was a tremendous value in a fairy tale in imparting the culture and the values of the culture to children. But also he actually went as far as to say that it was better to tell a story to a child than to read it because when you told it first of all the pictures that might be in a book wouldn't interfere with the child's own imagination. And
secondly because he would change the story to suit that child and what that child needed. You know people who are interested in that should or should seek out his book The uses of enchantment which I think has some interesting things to say I don't know if everyone would would agree with that psychoanalytic orientation but I think it's enter. Last night I agree we have about five six minutes left we have another caller here let's go to Bloomington Illinois. Why number four. Thank you very much I have two points questions one is about the boundaries of school learning that is most schools to stop the school learning at the playground and perhaps it's at the playground at play where a great deal of learning takes place. And associated with that do you think that children are moral reasoners that they can actually do critical thinking and reflecting on this and that schools don't do enough to
encourage or stimulate critical thinking about issues social and moral issues. Third the question the relationship between gender exclusion and violence if it were true let's say that if girls excluded more than boys. What does that do to the relationship you have found between male boy exclusion and and violence. Thank you very much I'll just hang up OK. OK. Well I agree about the point of the playground. I think that. That children can. If their help learn a lot about how to get along with other people how to listen to other people and how to understand that other children can have feelings about something that are different from their own. But also valid and important. To take into account.
I think that the playground is a really important place. It's interesting you think you make the argument that at some places where they've decided for I don't know for reasons of economy or because they want to have more classroom time that they could safely get rid of recess. You seem to be suggesting no that you know that's not maybe not such a good idea here for sure I think children need recess for lots of reasons and it includes physical exercise as well as those other social skills. I also agree with the caller about the importance of critical thinking and I think that having time to hear other people's points of view and to have time to learn to express one's own thoughts. Other people's reaction to them is really valuable. And the third issue that he brought up about gender is is a really complicated one. I'm not sure that girls do more excluding than boys do but it's certainly in this group.
Took a different flavor. It was quieter and more subtle. But it would be hard to compare who was doing more excluding the boys exclusion was noisy and when it took place I knew it right away were the girls. Exclusion. I had to really look for it and watch what was going on in order to see it happening. And we both did it. Do you feel that at the end of the year that the things that you had learned and tried to do with the children led to changes in their behavior could you really see differences that at the end. I really did see differences. If if you look at the conversations that the children had about problems that were coming up at recess at the end of the year they were often able to go through a discussion of what happened and what could happen next in order to make a situation that had upset them work out better they were able to really do that in large part
by themselves. I would be there listening to them and helping them keep on track but they could come up with a solution whereas in the beginning of the year it was much more difficult for them to both explain what the problem was and come up with possible suggestions for what to do about it. It wasn't that difficulty disappeared. It was more that they had tools for how to deal with them when they came up which was actually the goal. So that when problems like this come up in their backyard or out at recess when the teachers aren't listening they'll have some ideas of how to handle it. I want to try to bring one more person in here as we are down to our last minute or two in Urbana. Line 1. Hello. Hi I just to quickly I've only heard half of your program and I wish I'd heard of but when I was teaching long ago I'm sure I'd use Aesop's Fables. And I found that the class would really have a bearing
animated reaction to them and the whys and wherefores. And I wondered if you had packed about that earlier on this program or if you have used a sub stables. I haven't used fables as much in particular as I did the fairy tale I have but I do think that the idea of teaching through story really valuable children can talk about what was fair in a story and what a character should have done and in a way that really helps them be able to articulate their opinions listen to other people's opinions and imagine what they would do in a similar situation. And also after after the story is over and they're playing a game and some situation comes up you can refer to that and go back to it and say I remember the day we talked about you know this character. What do you think is similar about your new situation and what did you learn from that. The reason I write the famous essay very short and pithy. That's right and that can be a problem. Yes the crimes are some of the members of the press don't get it
but it was Philly and other places when you have a little bit of time and I think found very very helpful Besides I'd like to go back to some of the things as you say fairy tales and I just want to put my my two cents in for you top stable future. Thank you. Well thanks for the call well we're going to have to stop as we are here at the end of the time. Again if folks want to look at the book I think there are some interesting things here. You look for under dead man's skin discovering the meaning of children's violent play published by the Beacon Press by our guest chain catches catch one say to you. Thank you very much for talking with us. Thank you very much for having me.
- Program
- Focus 580
- Producing Organization
- WILL Illinois Public Media
- Contributing Organization
- WILL Illinois Public Media (Urbana, Illinois)
- AAPB ID
- cpb-aacip-16-kk9474785q
If you have more information about this item than what is given here, or if you have concerns about this record, we want to know! Contact us, indicating the AAPB ID (cpb-aacip-16-kk9474785q).
- Description
- Description
- with Jane Katch, author and teacher
- Broadcast Date
- 2001-01-17
- Genres
- Talk Show
- Subjects
- Violence; ENTERTAINMENT; Education; Children and Parenting; Children
- Media type
- Sound
- Duration
- 00:46:41
- Credits
-
-
Producer: Brighton, Jack
Producing Organization: WILL Illinois Public Media
- AAPB Contributor Holdings
-
Illinois Public Media (WILL)
Identifier: cpb-aacip-652015b8445 (unknown)
Generation: Copy
Duration: 46:37
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Illinois Public Media (WILL)
Identifier: cpb-aacip-4ae2be9c453 (unknown)
Generation: Master
Duration: 46:37
If you have a copy of this asset and would like us to add it to our catalog, please contact us.
- Citations
- Chicago: “Focus 580; Under Deadmans Skin: Discovering the Meaning of Childrens Violent Play,” 2001-01-17, WILL Illinois Public Media, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed November 8, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-16-kk9474785q.
- MLA: “Focus 580; Under Deadmans Skin: Discovering the Meaning of Childrens Violent Play.” 2001-01-17. WILL Illinois Public Media, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. November 8, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-16-kk9474785q>.
- APA: Focus 580; Under Deadmans Skin: Discovering the Meaning of Childrens Violent Play. Boston, MA: WILL Illinois Public Media, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-16-kk9474785q