Focus 580; Grant

Good morning and welcome to focus 580. This is our telephone talk program my name is David Inge and we're glad to have you listening. In the first part of the program today we'll be exploring the life of Ulysses S. Grant for perhaps more than 100 years now the prevailing view has been that Grant was among the least successful and weakest of American presidents. Also some people have been critical of his conduct as a military commander saying that his victories mostly were due to his willingness to sacrifice his troops on the battlefield within the historical community though this view has recently begun to change and this morning we'll be talking with the author of a newly published biography a major new biography of grant that argues that in fact Grant was greatly under rated. Perhaps both as a military commander and as a president. And our guest this morning is Jean Edward Smith. He's written many works on history of history and a biography. He taught political science at University of Toronto for many years and currently is the John Marshall professor of political science at

Marshall University. His book is titled Grant. And it's published by Simon and Schuster. And if you're interested in reading about this man and this period in American history you certainly should head out to the bookstore and take a look at the book. And of course as we talk this morning with Jean Edward Smith you are welcome to call in if you have questions all we ask of people is that they just try to be brief just so we can keep things moving along and include as many different callers as possible. Anyone though is welcome to join the conversation. If you're in Champaign Urbana where we are 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 is the number to call we do also have a toll free line so that means it would be a long distance call. You're listening around Illinois Indiana any place that signal travels use the toll free line will pay for the call 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. PROFESSOR SMITH Hello. Oh thanks for talking with us that I pleasure and I think if we if we went out in the street and started asking people. Who they thought were the American presidents

about whom most has been written I'd say even if people were guessing and babbled They would guess they'd probably come up with Washington and Lincoln. I was though surprised to learn that so much had been written about Grant perhaps as almost as many books as about Washington or Lincoln. Well yes our perception of Grant is certainly not the perception that the population had of him in the 1860s and 70s. Grant saved the Union and he was the object of an and memorable biographical Studies at that time. Well all actual Tory we I mean there are number of things I said that I want to get into and detail here but perhaps that the headline we might just offer here at the beginning if we ask this question given that fact why is it that now today within at least the popular imagination there still is this notion that Grant was as a president was a failure. Your your explanation has a

great deal to do with Grant's commitment to the legacy of Lincoln to the idea of reconstruction and black equality and when reconstruction fell. Part in support for the idea of black equality in this country eroded not long after the Civil War. It was at that time I think that you suggested that this the view that we have now of a grant as a failure starts to take hold. That's correct. Grant was was dedicated to the idea of black equality and he pressed that long after long after it was popular. He was prominently identified with reconstruction. He believed in reconstruction he believes that African-Americans should enjoy the rights guaranteed to them under the 14th and 15th Amendments. Indeed he pressed the passage of the adoption of the 15th Amendment. And when the nation turned against black equality when we moved from. From that to a Jim Crow society grant was it was necessary.

Grant's reputation necessarily eroded. I think a great deal of it had to do with the historical establishment itself which was just as white supremacist as as as Southerners in many respects. And this particularly at Columbia at Johns Hopkins centers of historical research the history of reconstruction was rewritten and Grant was was denigrated as the perpetrator of black equality. Given his success or even considering his success as a military commander if you go back in and look at the kind of man he was and perhaps some of his feelings about the military and about war it seems surprising that he would have chosen a military career and would have gone to West Point. And it seems as if in fact he didn't really choose that this was initially this was his father's idea.

Well that's correct. Grand more or less had a military career thrust upon him. His father sent him to choose that he decided that he should go to West Point. Grant was never really enthusiastic about a military career really wanted to be a teacher of mathematics at a small college in Ohio but the Mexican war intervened and with with his experience in Mexico Grant decided to make the military a career. He had had a good war in Mexico and was intent on remaining in the Army until his unit the 4th Infantry was sent to California in the early 1850s. Grant was separated from his wife and family. He suffered I guess what. What we in Canada would have called Heaven fever out there alone with nothing to do and began drinking more than he could handle and was forced to resign in 1854. And then from 1854 to 1861 grandfatherly a losing battle against poverty. He

failed it at farming he failed it. Selling real estate. Ultimately his father rescued him and Grant was working as a clerk in the family leather goods store up in Galena. When the civil war began he did as you point out he did distinguish himself in the Mexican War although it was a war that he deplored. Interestingly enough as Abraham Lincoln did so he fought well in that war and yet he he didn't approve of that war. Well he objected to the war he thought it was a war brought on by slave owners to expand the territory of slavery and was very much against the war but he was a professional soldier. And he admired the way the American army behaved he'd particularly General Zachary Taylor who really became Grant's role model and then Rand also served under Winfield Scott who me who me also it mired and learned a number of things professionally from the war. He was spent most of the war

as regimental quartermaster of the 4th Infantry and learned the supply business from the bottom up. That was invaluable experience in the civil war and if you think about it none of Grant's armies ever ever wanted for anything in terms of supplies ammunition and food. He learned all of that at ground level. And I think he also learned from Winfield Scott that an army can cut itself off from its supply base. As Scott did when he marched on Mexico City cutting himself off from Vera Cruz utilize that lesson when he couldn't sell fall from the supply base in Memphis moved south of. Vicksburg cross the Mississippi south and much to the consternation of almost everyone else in the American army. He certainly was. It was someone who in his in his application military strategy departed from what would have been the rule book of the day. And so it was the place that he

actually he actually learned the art of war. If we want to use that phrase was in Mexico that it was real on the ground experience that led him to think about strategy in the way that he did. Yes Grant was an original thinker very much like the poet and he brought it brought to original judgment to warfare. And he wasn't clear. He might really have slept through all of his lessons on tactics at West Point he could recall every having read any of the great works of military strategy. And he he simply was a very pragmatic and very pragmatic mind and addressed the problems as he saw them and was was able to make quick fixes to the situations when Iraq and wasn't really bound by by preconceived ideas. And in that respect particularly Grant really changed the way we think we think about war now. Grant ignored cities and real junctions and was totally uninterested in occupying territory and

concentrated on destroying the enemy army that was new. And Grant spent all of his efforts attempting to bring the enemy army into battle and to destroy it. I think if you look today at what we call the Powell Doctrine the idea idea of using invincible force against the enemy army the enemy military forces that's that's a direct lineal descendant of the art of war as practiced by General Grant. Given his his nature his the things that he learned in the military during the Mexican War the fact that he did have this experience says that the quartermaster. It seems a little surprising that he was not able to to take that and turn it into success in business in the civilian world. Grant had a marvelous talent for making war and absolutely no talent for making money. He was he was trusting. Almost like he was trusting like a child.

He trusted people long after everyone else had given up and usually there was. There were reasons why people had given up. Grant was was always interested in making money particularly when he's out on the West Coast and wanted to bring his family out and everything he touched simply turned sour. And that trait followed him all through his life really. In his last last years after leaving the presidency he trusted the swindler on Wall Street who brought down an investment firm that Grant was involved in. The demand was simply using a Ponzi scheme and ultimately the house of cards collapsed and Grant was left penniless in the last year of his life. Our guest in this part of focus 580 is Jean Edward Smith. He's professor of political science at Marshall University the author of a major new biography of Ulysses S. Grant. The title of the book is Grant and it's published by Simon and Schuster. Questions are welcome. The number here in Champaign Urbana 3 3 3 9

4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Is it true by the way Professor Smith that the ass in his name actually doesn't stand for anything. That's absolutely correct. Grant's mother was named Simpson. Grant was christened Hiram Ulysses Grant when he was appointed to West Point. The congressman who signed the appointment papers had forgotten that his name first name was Hiram and knew that his mother was a Simpson and simply assume that his name was Ulysses Simpson Grant and filled out the appointment papers. Ulysses S. Grant Grant protest when he when he got to West Point but military bureaucracy being what it was no they declined to make a change and so he simply stuck with that and that. Perhaps what didn't work out so badly for him as as his initials were us. Well that that's right and Sherman who was an upperclassman at the time

said the people were trying to hang nicknames on all of the students there and they saw Grant's initials us and someone wanted to call him Uncle Sam Grant and Sherman came up with the idea of simply calling him Sam and that nickname Sam Grant stuck with him. And of course during the war US Grant was a marvelous moniker and particularly after Grant's victory at Fort Donelson where he insisted on unconditional surrender. The US also stood for unconditional surrender. We have a caller here to talk with someone calling from Rantoul So we'll bring them in right here. Number one. Hello hello. I don't want to comment on the guest position of Grant and race relations. From my reading of Grant's memoirs I recall first that he didn't think the black soldiers were particularly distinguished in the

civil war. He also had misgivings about granting citizenship to freed blacks without any reciprocal effort on their part. And he finally commented as I recall that. People's concerns about blacks as citizens and continued presence in the United States was not justified because whites had so far to at least never been compelled to associate directly with blacks. Chris views of Grant's views evolved Grant began the civil war believing that it was a war to save the Union exclusively and was not really that concerned about the status of

slavery. But as the war continued Grant recognized that slavery was the root cause of the war and I think his association with President Lincoln caused him to change his view considerably. Unlike other union commanders McClellan and Buell for example Grant never hesitated when the order from Washington came down to accept black soldiers and began to eagerly eagerly recruit them. And I think in the end one of these decisive moments during the war before Richmond on the question of exchanging prisoners one for one with the South. When Lee balked at exchanging black prisoners Grant broke off the discussions completely insisting that black American soldiers were to be treated just like any other soldier. I thought they were executed when they were captured. No soldiers no bikes black soldiers off to the beat.

They were property. They were property and Lee was was was not prepared to recognize the black soldiers were were free individuals but with but that they were property of Southern slave owners. And insofar as as as equal rights for blacks after the war no I believe you're wrong on that sir. A grant pressed the passage to the 15th Amendment which granted which granted just what I recall from reading Grant's memoirs which he wrote at the end of life don't forget to Graham's memoir's interests in the civil war. Pardon me. Grant's memoirs in when at the end of the Civil War. Yeah but he draws from some conclusions about national policy in the memoirs. Yes. Let me bring up the old phone. OK sure thing. What. Did you want to. Continued along that line.

Well only to say that. Grant's views evolved as the war progressed and once the war was over in particular with Mr Lincoln's death the Grant felt it incumbent upon him to ensure that the blacks received equal rights and it was really a grant as president who we destroyed who crushed the Klu Klux Klan and the self Grant press the Ku Klux Klan Act through Congress. He dispatched his attorney general to the south and ordered the army to take the field to assist federal officers to arrest Klansmen and 1871 under Grant's leadership. Federal grand juries in the south returned over 3000 indictments of Klansmen and 600 were convicted and 65 worst offenders were imprisoned in federal penitentiary in Albany New York for up to five years. So so great it was vigorous and impressing reconstruction which to him meant equality for the freedmen. And you believe that in in large part his change of thinking on this had to

do with his association with Abraham Lincoln. I think I think that I think that was a major contributor to it he was he was so captivated by President Lincoln as Lincoln was captivated by Grant and I think it also had to do with his seeing what the situation was Grant always reacted to what he saw he was very pragmatic and I think he saw that. The white South was determined to strip African-Americans of the rights that were had been full to obtain. We have another call it is also a cell phone here line number four. Hello. Yes. I think Grant was very you write very practical. And but one of the things that I think shocks Americans to vote is the views about African-Americans and I guess the high am I don't know if it's that shocking if you review it in the context of the

time but Grant on his platform when he ran for president he advocated very strongly that black students should not be allowed to vote in the north. It was OK for them to stay in the dock to neutralize the Democrats but as far as them coming up north Artie and him were strongly opposed to that. Will serve the 15th Amendment really that was passed and had grants and Grant press the 15th Amendment really operated in the north than it did in the self to ensure that blacks participated in the suffrage and if I don't believe if you check the Republican platforms both in 68 and 72 when Grant ran you'll find strong a strong attachment to equal rights for blacks. It was in fact that's the issue really on which the Democrats contested the election in 68 and 72 So Grant

was stuck with equal rights for blacks and Frederick Douglass Frederick Douglass the great spokesman for African-Americans took to the took to the hustings in both years and urged African-Americans to use the suffrage to vote for President Grant. We'll never find anyone better than President Grant Douglas said in numerous speeches. So I think I think I believe that it's that clear and I know that the power of the Republican and the north were not excited about having black migration and an everyman vote in the north. The fact they argued against that was that was certainly true in some places. One of the things that cause a grant to break with some members of the Republican Party was was was precise it was precisely on that issue but. But Grant Hill firm and of the grant Republicans held firm when the so called liberal Republicans split off in 1872 and joined the Democrats you're

correct it was on that issue but the grant wiped them out in the election and the election of 72. Thank you. I want other questions are certainly welcome. We're talking this morning with Jean Edward Smith he's professor of political science at Marshall University the author of many works of history and biography. His most recent is a biography of Ulysses S. Grant and it's titled Grant. It's just fairly recently published by Simon and Schuster and the questions are certainly welcome the number if you're going to call in here in Champaign Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 and toll free 800 two. 2 2 9 4 5 5. Maybe I should should should also say that both the election of 1868 the election of 1872 or Schumann's for Grant he he walked all over Horace Greeley in 72 and Seymour was that was was offered very little contest in 68. Grant is the only president between Andrew Jackson and Woodrow Wilson to have served

eight consecutive years in the White House. And he left. He left in a blaze of glory. I think if I might that one of Grant's major contributions was steadying the country and bringing it back to normalcy after the Civil War and the upheaval of the Johnson years. The country had been upset for eight years and Grant's stability is solid like presence in the White House really reassured the country and provided a path for the return to normalcy. No one else no one else could have done that. And then in the Hayes Tilden contest in 76 when Grant was still president it was Grant who said to the nation there as well who called the The two sides together who arranged the formula for adjudicating the results. Gave the country confidence that the outcome would be would be if the election would be observed. Bitter election much like Gore Gore

Bush in 2000. Grant married to he is the sister of his roommate at West Point and they apparently were a devoted couple. When was Mrs. Grant like her. This event was a very forceful one and she was deeply in love with her husband as soon as he was with her. And I think it's curious that both of them were loners and and in many respects and they both found in each other fulfillment and ducked was really what gave Grant trouble when he went to California he went to California without Julia and the children. And he missed them terribly. And they were inseparable. It was really a very much of an old fashioned love story between the two of them I don't believe that grand ever loved any other woman. And I'm sure that Julia had not did not love anyone

else other other than Ulysses it was a it was a very personal relationship and. Julia exercise a strong but in the background hand on Grant one of the one of the nice stories I think was when Grant was being pressed to run for a third term after after he had finished his first two and in 1876 and Grant didn't want to run for a third term in that time and he wrote a letter to the head of the Republican Party in Pennsylvania saying that he did not want a name placed in nomination in stepping down. Grant did not show the letter to Julian until after he had mailed it and he said I didn't ship it to you because I knew that you would walk me through it to change it. It's a great value to her and her advice and her advice was always solid. And maybe this is in a sense an extension of that. But

what kind of first lady. I was I was almost I was thinking of that question before you asked it and wishing that I had commented on it after the Civil War and the Johnson years and Mrs President Johnson's wife was an invalid. Julia really reste or did the White House as the center of Washington society. She was the youngest. I'm not sure if she was the youngest first lady but Grant was the youngest president to have been elected at that time and Julia was in her mid 40s when she became first lady and she she was intent on making the White House the focus of Washington society and genuinely enjoyed living there and enjoyed entertaining. She was not a beautiful woman but she was certainly an attractive woman and apparently satisfied and thrilled Washington society with

the with the entertaining that she did in the White House. It wasn't new to or don't forget Grant had been General in Chief for years before that. And so Grant's home in Washington as General in Chief had also been quite a social center. He was after the war was was a very popular figure in the cunt. I guess there particularly in the south because of the way that he conducted the surrender was what led him to two though to take this step and run for president the United States. Well Grant was your correct Grant was the most powerful man in the United States after Lincoln's assassination. He was still he was general in chief he was a he was a most powerful figure in Washington. Johnson really knew that he could not do anything without Grant because of the stature Grant enjoyed. And you're correct both north and south in the south of the terms that Grant Grant during the war

took the surrender of three Confederate armies Fort Donelson Vicksburg and up to Maddox and in each instance the terms he gave were were generous of the troops were allowed to were and were not were not made prisoners but were let except for dolls and were not made prisoners but were allowed to go free under their own Paroles. And it happened Maddox he included a marvelous sentence of his own. It was on the officers and men who turned in their arms and return home will not be disturbed by the authority of United States again so long as they observe the laws in place where they live. With that sentence Grant pardoned the Army of Northern Virginia he pardoned Lee pardoned he pardoned everyone who surrendered and that was greatly respected in the south and it had a great deal to do with bringing the country back together. You know in the in the next hour of the show in the 11:00 o'clock hour of the show we're going to be talking with Jay Winik who has now authored a book that looks at the

events of just one month the last month of the war 1865 and he makes the argument that you just made that first of all he says It's interesting to think about how things went and speculate about how if things had gone a little bit differently here or there the outcome could have been different and one of the things that he notes is as a significant event was what happened after Maddox both the way Grant conducted himself and the way General Lee conducted himself that his significant act was to decide to surrender and not to continue to fight it during that that that the the Confederate army would effectively be wiped out and Grant on his part. The thing that he did was so very important was as you say essentially he pardoned everybody even evenly and that was at the time when in the north there were people for calling for Lee's execution they. Said the man should be hung. And this was it. It seemed that was a big grant took a big step here in doing that. And

one of the things that Winick notes is that later when General Sherman was working on his the surrender of General Johnston Sherman got into a lot of trouble because people in Washington felt that he had he had gone way too far in dictating the terms that he had to Johnston. Was there anybody in Washington who thought that Grant indeed had gone too far when he pardoned the Army of Northern Virginia. Well Andrew Johnson for one didn't want to see President Lincoln and thought that Grant had gone too far but it's interesting it's a little hard for us now to realize when with communication is that we know today it is to imagine that a general in the field is going to end. For almost five years of war on his own authority and just without any guidance from the War Department or from the president the ropes help the terms of surrender just on up on a piece of the ordinary ordinary paper and pencil in first and up to set there and

root them out and grant his memoirs that he didn't really know what he was going to write when he started to write. But he concluded with that sentence that effectively pardon the Army of Northern Virginia. I don't. After President Lincoln's assassination. President Johnson ordered. The United States attorney in Norfolk to bring indictments against Lee and Longstreet Johnston in the federal grand jury in Norfolk returned indictments in indicting this three of them for treason. Lee wrote to grant and grant then immediately intervened with President Johnson and forced President Johnson to have to have the indictment squashed. Well what was it that made Grant think that he actually could do this that that he had the authority in the standing to. Dictate terms. In a sense as you say to to bring this long war to a close attention on his own although the ward didn't really it

wasn't quite that needed didn't really end there. But but essentially on his own authority he and Sherman had met with President Lincoln several months before and knew put President Lincoln's thinking was a knew that Lincoln wanted to generous generous peace so Grant felt that he was operating consistently with what President Lincoln wanted. But Grant never really consulted with the War Department grant was General in Chief and he had his headquarters in the field. And Grant who conducted the war really from horseback out in the field. He didn't tell the War Department that he was going to cross the Mississippi below Vicksburg. He didn't tell the War Department that he was going to cross the James River and move south of Richmond because the grant simply felt that it was his authority to make those decisions. I think that's one of the things that Lincoln liked about in the fact that Grant took responsibility and made decisions without

asking for advice from Washington. To talk within Champaign County. One number one fellow I suppose I don't know if he committed this to paper but one of the things he would have anguished about was not running in 1876 after the deadlock election that ended in the betrayal of reconstruction as you mentioned in passing earlier. Is there some kind of record of that. Well Grant was exhausted. He had command of the Army during the four years of war he had fought reconstruction and fought a cold war with President Johnson during the Johnson administration. And then eight years of the presidency Grant was exhausted. I think he the one thing that is on record as a comment that he made on leaving the White House that he felt like a boy getting out of school. He was he was just overwhelmed and he was he just wanted to put the responsibilities down having shouldered them for 16 years. I think by 18 80 after his trip around the world two and a half years after his

meeting with heads of state and recognizing the role of the United States in the world I think he did have a desire to return to the White House for a third term in 1880. And as you know he came very close to getting the Republican nomination which finally went to James Garfield. I think on the 36 ballot reading or understanding of American history that I have but when you mention Sherman's name came up a couple of times and speaking of. Autonomy of generals in the field. It seems to me that the South begrudge him more of the land reform that he did in the Carolinas and north Georgia more than any cinema graphic sacking of Atlanta. And that was rescinded quite early and it's another thing that. You know I think he was kind of. I think there are but there was sort of the subtext of what what people are really angry with Sherman over and it was a Johnson that actually rescinded that very quickly or did that last until reconstruction

I guess it didn't. Well the chairman got into trouble initially with the terms that he gave to General Joseph Johnston. Sure. As Sherman went far beyond what Grant had done at APA matics and really included a number of political terms and in the terms of the surrender that he gave Johnson and Gran's immediately knew that he'd gone too far. President Johnson and the cabinet instructed grant to go down to see Sherman and have the terms changed and Sherman did and Grant and Josie Johnston changed the terms of surrender. I think Sherman was was it was was heated in the south because of the tenacity with which he waged war. And I recognize that. In total war one tries to destroy the enemy's ability to produce and the wave of destruction that the Army of the Tennessee

left in its wake across Georgia and through the Carolinas. I think Down South they probably resent Sherman more for that than anything else though. Joseph E. Johnston never resented the the affection that the leaders of both North and South had for each other is really sort of moving. At Grant's funeral Grant wondered equal number of southern and Union generals to march as pall bearers and Joseph E. Johnston and Simon Bolivar Buckner from the south marched along with Sherman insured and we'll look at Sherman's funeral in New York. Joseph P. Johnston who had surrendered to him stood in the rain bareheaded. I caught pneumonia. And died one month after Sherman and I.

So very interesting I want to reemphasize the point I made about the Sherman sort of in a military order giving land to the freed slaves. And that it didn't stand in the sort of you know part of the betrayal reconstruction and I guess I should have just this would have been beyond Sherman's authority to do of course with winds dealing with with property ownership and as an act of war temporarily in a war zone. Possibly it could could stand but. But but not one civil authority is restored now within what civil authority was then. I took up the idea of some kind of 40 acres and a mule and it was no guts. And as I recall General Sickles was the military governor in the Carolinas and acted vigorously to ensure equality for the freedmen but was was quickly removed by President Johnson President Johnson and spoke very much. Where about 10 minutes left here we have another call we get to write to and I'd like to introduce Again

our guest for this part of focus 580 We're speaking with Jean Edward Smith. He's professor of political science at Marshall University he's the author of many works of history and biography and is the author of a new biography of Grant which is titled Grant. It's published by Simon and Schuster is out now and questions are welcome 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 2 another call here. Line number two in ur Banna hai. I don't want to if you could speak more directly to your interpretation of how your interpretation of Grant changes their understanding of him and how it was exactly that he has come down through history so negatively as a president in the first place. And I'll just hang up and listen. Right Grant was not viewed negatively during his lifetime. Grant was overwhelmingly elected president twice. He was the leading citizen in the country really up until his death in

1885 and when he died a million and a half people turned out of the watch the funeral procession in New York which shut the city down. The reinterpretation of Grant occurred really after his death and in the same 1880s and 1890s as has white supremacy and Jim Crow racial segregation took the place of equality for the freedmen Grant was closely identified with reconstruction he was closely identified with the equality for black citizens and. Has the nation turned its back on Blackheath quality. Grant became a victim of a national apartheid and the history and the historical establishment really from the 1880s up until the 1960s was has looked very skeptically of black equality and believe that

Negroes were innately inferior. Grant didn't share that view and he was castigated by historians because he did believe in black equality at the expense of reconciliation with the white south. A couple of other reasons too if I might grant you gave the historians a little help because because of his appearance Grant didn't look like a president any more than he looked like a general. He was had a slightly disheveled look. He was seedy looking at times he says. Often unkempt in appearance. And he reeked of cigar smoke. But this was this was intentional and but it was with Grant and he was the same as as a general many people who saw grant for the first time and thought that as well. But as a general it was a little difficult to put him down because of his victories at Fort Donelson Shiloh in Vicksburg

Chattanooga and in Northern Virginia culminating in APA matics presidential accomplishment is more ambiguous. And there's always room to disagree as to what constitutes political success. So I think that Grant's appearance helped the historians make the case against him. Certainly there were the he made some decisions that were good for the post-war American economy when things could have again gone in another direction. He worked to reestablish the relationship between the United States and Britain. Made perhaps made some moves that were good in establishing the United States as an important country on the world stage and yet at the same time there is this perception that he is was a very corrupt. Administration. Let me deal with the accomplishments first in terms of the bringing the country back to to a

sound currency and getting rid of the greenbacks from the Civil War era and vetoing the inflation bill which would inflated the currency once again. Agreement has an important political legacy there to add to the Republican Party. The Republican Party don't forget it was formed as an abolitionist party in the 1850s. Once emancipation and and the Civil War came along the Republican Party had lost its rationale. Grant gave it a new rationale in terms of sound money and support for the American dollar and support for corporate America. The policy that dictated. That explain the Republican Party for almost 100 years and diplomatically he did restore peace for close relations with Great Britain he kept the United States out of war with Spain over Cuba. And I think we haven't said a word about it but on the frontier Grant really

pioneered what we call Grant's peace policy toward the plains Indians. The way for the eventual assimilation and citizenship for the for Native Americans. As for the corruption this was a gilded age this was a time when when money became paramount in many people's view Grant was personally incorruptible. But he stuck. It's OK he would stick with people who had he would stick with his friends far beyond what might have been justified. And I think that's. Part of the tag of corruption that attaches to him but Grant himself was ruthless in attempting to root out corruption he pressed the investigation of the Whiskey Ring encouraged his secretary of the Treasury to do so. He broke the attempt of Jay Gould and Jim fist to corner the gold market on Black Friday by ordering the secretary of the Treasury to sell gold and

he personally was was absolutely untouched. But he he could never turn his back on a friend. Near the end of his life really one of the last things that he did was he wrote his memoirs and this was something that was instigated by a friend of his. Mr. Twain. Mr. Clemens whose idea it was to publish the memoirs and he worked on this even though he was dying of cancer and apparently in a in a in a great deal of pain. It's a heroic story really grant. Suddenly in the last year of his life was left penniless and he had no pension and there was no pension for former presidents in those days. And he he was approached by a prominent American journal to to write a series of critical as pertaining to the Civil War Grant began tween found that he was doing that and suggested that that he published his memoirs and

gave grant a generous contract in which Grant received 70 percent of the profits. But there were no profits Grant would receive anything and Grant dying of cancer. Spent his final energy writing the memoirs which are unquestionably the greatest military memoirs the English language and critics as diverse as Edmund Wilson and Gertrude Stein consider them to be one of the finest books ever written by an American. Was that was his motivation. Was it mostly that he wanted to leave some money for his family or was he also interested in having his setting the record straight at least being on the record as far as he was concerned. Except I think it's fairly clear that his motive was exclusively to provide for millions. He demurred frequently the idea about writing the memoirs he thought the war had been covered adequately and it was only when he was in dire financial straits that he agreed to put pen to paper and grants pros are as

if they were marvelously written. Grant had a way with you know which language that a few few writers much less people of the military in the military service have his military quarters in the in the civil war work were impeccable examples of brevity and clarity. Yes I think that you know you write about several people commenting that that there was never any. When you read his orders there was never any doubt what it was he wanted you to do. That's exactly right he expressed himself clearly in the fewest words possible of that marvelous order to meet in the spring of 64. Lee's army will be your objective point where Lee goes there you will go also. Meet could not doubt in the least what Grant wanted. Did the memoirs sell well the memoirs were the best some of the American best seller up to that point. It's a two volume set. The Misses Grant ultimately receives

royalties worth four hundred fifty thousand dollars as $450000 in 1885. That's an enormous amount of money today. Well we're just about at the point we're going to have to to finish. And I mention the fact that that there are other historians as well who apparently are revisiting reconsidering Grant's record and now we have a significant one volume biography that that you have produced Do you think that in time now perhaps the the popular conception of Grant will change along with the the scholarly conception. Well I think it's inevitable I think we'll get back to the real man and one of the reasons is that we recognized that we were wrong about the inferiority of African-Americans and that really colored our view of Grant. Once we cleanse ourselves of that as we as we have largely done it's inevitable that Grant's achievements will be looked at again.

Well I want to say a Professor Smith thank you very much for talking with us today. We appreciate it. Thank you very much it's my pleasure. Our guest Jean Edward Smith he's professor of political science at Marshall University His book is Grant and it is published by Simon and Schuster.