Focus 580; Looking Forward to It Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the American Electoral Process

And as I mentioned our guest is Stephen Elliott he's written for a number of publications including GQ Newsweek The Village Voice San Francisco Chronicle and The Believer magazine. He's also the author of four novels. Editor of the anthology politically inspired he makes his home in San Francisco and is the author of this new book looking forward to it How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love the American electoral process. Is the publisher. It's out in the bookstore now and in fact he will be here in Champaign-Urbana doing a book signing at the A-line Union bookstore tonight at 6 o'clock. That's 8:00 or 9:00 south right in Champaign So people certainly should feel welcome to stop by say hello. Pick up a copy of the book and here of course on this program as we talk questions are welcome 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 here in Champaign Urbana toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 Those are the numbers Mr. Elliot Hello. You have to go in. Good thanks thanks for talking with us. If you're thinking I mean well you got yourself a pretty brutal tour schedule here I'm just looking over at your appearances last night. You're going to be here tonight and then from here

you're going to Cambridge. And then after that on Thursday night going to be in Brooklyn. When do you sleep. When the election's over I'm going to sleep for a long time. Well how did you get started on this book looking forward to it essentially as a it's a campaign diary it's a reporter's notebook. You know if something like based upon your experiences trying to follow around candidates during the primary season and up through the conventions trying to get some sense of what the process is all about what they're all about giving a behind the scenes kind of thing that the kind of you that often people don't get. The only time we get it is if people like you reporters do do that and do this same sort of exercise ask this and significant differences like I worked for Ralph Nader in 2000. So I had a lot of guilt and a lot of things that I think about. And so this is my. Or of trying to figure out where I stood on issues what was important to my generation. Could I make compromises so.

And also I had never written a nonfiction before so this was more or less of a reporter's notebook and more of a personal journey. You know trying to figure out my own politics rather than being you know some objective reporter which can be kind of dry. Yeah kind of coverage is more like personal and what's in it for me and people like me. You know how do these issues affect us directly. So how old are you. Thirty two. Thirty two. So the in this election we've certainly heard a lot about efforts to get younger younger voters and I guess I sort of think of that as maybe. I don't know 25 and under but maybe we can bump that up a few years get those people registered get them an interested get them engaged get them to vote and that that there's been a lot of emphasis on that particularly I think on the Democrat side but I but also Republicans have been out there registering people as well. And so the big question is first of all the big question is for all of these new voters whether when it comes to the day they'll actually do it. But

you know just how engaged they are how interested they are and whether or not that's going to make a difference one way or another and what you continually hear from people. And just some of the reading I've done recently looking at this very issue. There are always going to be able to go out there and find someone and often it's a college student who says look I just I do busy. I have too many other things on my plate and I don't really see that my vote is going to make much difference. Do you think in fact that. That the the the youth vote whatever that means really will be a factor. Well it's interesting you know I liked the book. The book is very much geared a lot to people like that because the book it is it's funny and it's narrative and it's not dry like a lot of like a lot of campaign books. And so I was really hoping to reach that generation of people that are maybe not as interested and say look how fun politics is look how endlessly interesting the process is. But in terms of you know will they turn out. One

thing I think about it people say Well Bruce Springsteen is not going to make that big of a difference. You know because with these kids and you know what does it mean to make a big difference. What how many of 500 young voters could change this election a thousand young voters could change its election. You know Florida was won by 500 wasn't really won but Florida was decided by five hundred twenty seven votes. What if we had a thousand more young voters and Florida. You know so people think that they that they don't matter just because the numbers aren't huge have to realize just like every every person participating in selection can make a difference. You know one of the things that really. Struck me in reading your account of this kind of behind the scenes look at this whole the whole goofy primary process is first of all that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense but that's that's not exactly new. That's not a great revelation. I guess the thing that I did find myself thinking was that wondering

is that the job of reporters who cover this to make it seem like it makes sense. And I think there's a lot of things reporters could do to make it easier a lot of times they don't connect the dots. You see a lot of times where in in order to be fair and I kind of put that in quotes where the interview the interview one side the interview somebody is telling the truth. And in order to balance it out don't have to quote somebody who's lying you know. And I guess the thing to point to there pacifically would be the Swift Boat Veterans for it. Truth which is a group that was completely you know discredited across the board in many of the major newspapers and has proven that all the major allegations were false and yet they were still called and asked their opinion on things and quoted in articles and treated as if they were like an actual source and that that's kind of tragic. So yeah I'd like to I'd like to see some things change in journalism but I'd also like to see

people taking it upon themselves to participate and more. The bigger problem in the news media not doing the job might be anonymous people reading the news. You know people need. People have a responsibility in democracy when you know we did this program after I finished the book. At that at the Democratic convention I had like two months before the book came out and I wasn't going to leave the campaign trail. So I went from writer to activist which is kind of the logical progression of the point my book is making. And I organize a group of writers and we get all these voter registration drives across Ohio. Now is Part One and Part Two is that we're offering to give a figure a phone call or minder to first time voters and students in any swing state. All that do is requested from my website a live phone call from Dave Eggers of Tobias Wolff or Michael Chabon any number of great writers. But when I was when I was going across

the swing states talking to all the students I would always say to them Look you know you got to participate and participation. It's good for both sides people think oh if voter turnout was higher than that would help the Democrats. But actually if voter turnout was higher both sides would have would field better candidates the voter turnout was higher. In 2000 we could had Bradley vs. McCain instead of Gore versus Bush. You know but they do Republicans wouldn't go away just because it was high voter turnout which it it would just feel better can it. That's true for the Democrats as well. Our guest in this part of focus 580 is Steven Elliott. He has written for a number of publications including GQ Newsweek Village Voice. He's author of four novels and hasn't really done a lot of drawing as he has been in the beginning a lot of journalism non nonfiction kind of journalism but. This book that we're talking about here is and is a process of his spending time following candidates around through the primary process starting in July of last year and continuing through the conventions this year the book is

titled Looking forward to it or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love the American electoral process. The title I think if I'm remembering right comes from at one point you bumped into was it Dean and you said that you were doing some reporting and that you were hoping to talk to him and of course he said oh I'm looking forward to that. But one of the very first day I had to campaign in Iowa City and I met Howard Dean I said you know we spent some time with you is oh great looking forward to it and he kind of moved along and that was that I thought to myself what that means. That's obviously all candidates are very excited to meet reporters and very excited with the idea. Oh yes of course we're going I love you love you love your work and and we'll get to that one of those days and that's more true of some candidate and others you know with as funny would John Kerry because when you get on the John the Kerry bus and also the bush bus I might add. They're just like oh we're so happy to see you again and when you get when you leave and come back to like where have you

been we missed you so much. The bus isn't any fun without you. But they don't give you any access to anybody that has any real information. And where is Howard Dean. He hated the media and because he hated the media everybody kind of filter down and everybody was kind of like prickly toward the media in the Dean campaign. And by the same time you got great access you could talk to anybody you know. But I think the reporters prefer the latter I think Id rather have no access. But a lot of love. And then more access and no love for you early on seem to have some interest and enthusiasm for for Mr. Dean as. Can today. Yeah. What. Just let me ask you in a personal sort of way what about him appeal to you. Well you know for me I was coming off of 2000 and working for Nader and being very liberal and and not wanting to make compromises. And so Dean was the first guy I thought OK he's a straight shooter. I

can live with this guy. He's against the war. A lot of things like that in the end I think Howard Dean was not as great a cad it as I want them to be and I think a lot of us a lot of people like me who just were were watching any Democrat to kind of live up to our ideals. We kind of put that on Howard Dean more than he put on himself. And he was never maybe as great as that he was thinking he was a good candidate he was a sincere person and he had he had some integrity. But he didn't. And have the kind of integrity that we maybe thought he had. He switched positions on Cuba and they started talking about letting Jesus in in his life when he started going to the Southern vote and it became kind of phony Not as phony as some of the other guys but in kind of phony and it's funny how you learn about these candidates of course. Howard Dean was against the war but he never actually had to vote

on it. And that some of the other guy really started out really not liking Kerry and really learn to like him a certain amount. He was still a compromise for me coming from a liberal background. He voted for the Patriot Act and things like that. But you know I found I certainly I like I said like him and also the kind of start to get that with everybody people you don't think you're like once you meet them at CNA you realize as a human being you can relate to just about anybody on the campaign trail. And that from both sides to the kids that worked for Bush and the kids who worked for Kerry and then you know the ground troops and all sides are so idealistic. The words are anonymous but it's really heartening even when you don't agree with their position just to see them really participating. The process I think there was some criticism of the way that the media covered Dean in this respect that early on the criticism was that the media had anointed this guy way way before the

first real tests of his candidacy and then very quickly after the first couple of after the first caucus and primary they said well the guy's going down in flames right. And I wonder whether you think that that is a fair criticism or in fact that that was a description of what things really did look like at the time that being in the beginning that it looked like this is the guy to beat. But then once they really got into the you know all the grit of the process that he fell apart kind of quickly and that he truly he just wasn't up to it. Right. I actually think despite I have a lot of problems with the media and the first one being that a lot of times the media is lazy and they put out press releases and they quote people that they know are lying. You know like after after the convention or not after the. Debate they go straight to THE SPIN ROOM which is where all the people are just that nobody but liars in THE SPIN ROOM is it spin to spin means to lie. So why would you go into the spin room and take quotes from people who are paid to

lie for a living and print them in your newspapers and run them on your radio and TV when what I'd much rather hear an interview with a swing voter in Ohio to get an actual idea of what happened in the any event. So I do have a lot a problem with the way the media covers campaigns. But I think in terms of Dean I think Dean was going down and he was anointed early and I don't think the media was unfair to him particularly I mean they definitely. They certainly played the scream speech quite a few more times and I was interested in seeing it. But here he lost the caucus at that point. And if you're with Howard Dean you saw that it was as if he was. Trying to lose. He did everything wrong in the final week for the caucus and when he lost the Iowa caucuses that was the whole game for him he was not going to recover from that. I don't think that was the media's fault I think he was. His campaign is falling apart. I don't know lot of levels in a lot of

different places like the veriest perfect storm outreach organizations and and his internal struggles. So I don't think that the media had much to do with Howard Dean's downfall. They probably had a lot more to do with his rise and he was maybe never really that solid of a candidate to begin with. When you in the beginning stage if you think back to where we had I guess I don't remember how many Democrats we had altogether seven eight nine nine candidates. And you look at who those people were. You had to say that. Well you're certainly early on you had to say well you know who knows what's going to happen but you had a say in that field. There were some candidates you would have to say would maybe be stronger candidates something you obviously you know like like Dennis Kucinich who has you know not going to be that funny would not get it. You know I really liked him and when I spent a day with him in December a day or two and we were driving around just me there was no other media with him. And we're driving this van and then our legs are touching in any he shared his meal with me late at night in the

middle of Iowa and we had a real connection but yet he would not have been a great president and other people like Gephardt and Lieberman. Those guys I think you just knew. You never had a chance I mean Lieberman was out of the question from the beginning. There was never any point to which it seemed like he had any possible chance and his positions were so conservative that there really wasn't much of a distinction between him and George Bush and so did he get an offer anything to the party and Gephardt of course it already lost. He had already proved you know that he wasn't the guy. So he was going to have a hard time. You know see a sore early on he really homo's to mediately it was it was seen carrying. And then Wesley Clark was interesting Wesley Clark people think that he was crazy for not competing in Iowa and then he threw away the election by doing by making

that decision and Clark himself uttered something similar that kind of recognize that but I actually think that the Clark strategy of waiting it out and then starting New Hampshire was a brilliant strategy. And if Dean wins Iowa and Clark becomes the anti Dean candidate and it almost certainly gets the nomination. But it's a bit was a brilliant it was a brilliant gamble and it lost but I think the odds were in his favor. And just you know sometimes you do the right thing it doesn't work out for you and I think that's what happened with Wesley Clark. He could have if things work out different in Iowa which is something he had no control over and he would have been in a real strong contention. We're almost at the midpoint of this part of focus and I hope that Stephen you wouldn't mind hanging on just a second here because we're going to have to take a moment here to ask people for the money and then we'll talk some more. We should donate to public radio. Darn straight. It's great. We'll talk a bit more with Stephen Elliott here in a second. It is the time you know if you're a public

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selling campaign ads so it's really a bonanza for certainly commercial broadcasters but what we want is for the election to be a bonanza for you as a citizen so what we do instead of charging the candidate campaigns to put on their message is we chase them down. We tackle them our producers actually get them in headlocks until we get them on the air. So you know if you support that kind of effort this kind of you know important element of the democratic process we need to hear your pledge call right now. 2 1 7 2 4 4 9 4 5 5 0 I think both very much. When you get back here to our conversation with Stephen Elliott He is a writer and. And novelist. He's done both journalism and fiction. He's written for Newsweek Village Voice San Francisco Chronicle. He's author of four novels. He makes his home in San Francisco is now traveling around the country talking about his book looking forward to it or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love the American electoral process it's published by pick a door. And it is the result of his spending time on the campaign

trail following around presidential candidates starting in the summer last summer and going up through their convention. He by the way will be here in Champaign Urbana doing a reading and book signing at the A-line a union bookstore at 6 o'clock tonight. That's at 8:00 or 9:00 south right in champagne. And anybody who's interested in meeting him I'm sure can turn out and say hello and pick up a copy of the book and questions to hear on the program are welcome. 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 2 2 2 9 4 5 5. Well we have a couple callers here we'll go to someone. Being in the Dow Jones this is my number for toll free line. Hello. Yes I have an unattributed source story only because I can't remember where I heard it. It's about David percentage but only peripherally. Just bear with me for a minute. Somebody with an observer in the primaries knows that because then it was getting a lot of audience response. More a more positive response.

This person thought than anyone else and said to a reporter why aren't you covering this why aren't we hearing that this is the guy who's really getting the audience response and the response from the media was if we did that he would be the candidate he might be the candidate. And I was appalled by this story and as I say I don't remember who it was. But is this something that the media does. Well I mean I wanted to do one of the things there's some things to think about here. One reporter does not speak for the many to the general I think this is sort of a you know sitting around having drinks and. Right but you see him saying listen I like when you say one reporter said this. That doesn't mean that the media feels that way I think Dennis to say it's got less coverage than he deserved. Part of that is because everybody travels with the front runner and that the city is the second place person. It's been an incredible drop. And so like when I was traveling with John Kerry in December when he was a loser I called it the death bus. Because it was so depressing to be a John Kerry bus. John

Kerry had five reporters with him on that bus. So not John Kerry in December was not getting significantly more coverage than Dennis Kucinich was. So I don't know if it's entirely fact Doc that should have gotten more attention because they lumped him in with Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley-Braun and that was not fair because he had raised a lot more money than they had raised. But he had still only raised a fraction of the money the other candidates had he had a smaller organization. You know Howard Dean nobody was covering him and he forced them to cover him by building an organization and creating a movement and I think Assange could've done some similar things. He was really disorganized. You know he took all of all of the work that he did in Iowa and he made a deal with John Edwards an awful deal where he essentially gave all of his all of his non-viable as I will go into the details of how the Iowa caucus works. Essentially he gave all of his votes to John Edwards can get tricked

out of his votes. And I'm not talking about David Christian it's the civically ness and as early as I knew about this attitude that friends here now and I'm just asking whether this is a widespread attitude that we cover the guys that we think you know should be right and I think I am innocent of that I think the answer is that they cover the winners that cover the people who are doing the best. Those are the people get that they get the bulk of the coverage and assume it was great with the crowd. And I love Dennis you know I hung out with him have nothing but good things to say about him. And he is a real crowd pleaser. So you're saying this is true that that actually is true he was a crowd pleaser but his crowds were not that big. You're saying it's true that the media decides who they're going to cover because that's who they think is is. Well there's a lot of other factors I mean there's how much money have they raised how many people are showing up at their at their rallies it's not just that he's getting good response from people.

It's a lot of people showing up I mean is there a movement there. And I think we can sense the answer is no there was not a movement with this and it was not that many people going was rallies even those rallies were fun and it was a real strong connection. So each and each media outlet makes their own choices not the media makes a lot of mistakes but it's more often from laziness then. And cynicism. Thank you. Let's go to another caller here next. Why one. Good morning David enjoy. Steven Elliott this column has a couple of questions for you Stephen Elliott. First you suggested earlier in this program that greater participation in elections would result in better candidates. What mechanism might that happen. And second have you had any contact with a candidate for president of the United States. Michael bad narrative and if so what have you to say about him and I had no I had

no contact with Michael but I did have I did write quite significantly about the. About a lot of the Republican challengers like big boasts and people like that guys that were really unknown I wrote about a lot of those guys quite a bit. But so many things you know Michel in terms of better participation. One thing is you've got to make it easier for people to register. People should like in Wisconsin people can register up until the day of the election. There's no reason that they can do in Wisconsin. They can do it anywhere. You know it's no reason that Wisconsin should have better election laws than Illinois or anywhere else. And I'm from from Illinois by the way I went to University of Illinois so I say that in all fairness and I'm not a California person I did teach at a Stanford now so yeah getting people interested. And giving them making it easier for them to register really that we should have we should make it easier for people to register absentee people should be should not have to go to the

polls. Shrilled a vote by mail like they do in Oregon. And finally this might sound crazy but I'm certainly in favor of mandatory voting the way they do in Australia where if you don't vote you get fined fifty one hundred dollars because you know what I don't have health care. Your lack of participation contributes to my lack of health insurance. And you're a year in difference. You know I don't mean you I mean people in general so we should we need to take real steps and a lot of the politicians in power fail to realize that their parties would actually be well served by better turnout because they're only thinking short term and not thinking long term. And so we need to make it much more of a priority to get people voting because that's what democracy is participation. Do you think if we require people to vote. Though that there are those people who are not voting now that would be voting because we say it's going to cost you money if you don't vote. Would they be making an informed choice or would they just know OK I have to go down there and have to do this and that which I would say has a lot of

people that are voting right now are not making an informed choice. And and I think that people if they had to vote they'd be more likely to to look into the information and beyond that they wouldn't have to vote for anybody they would they could always choose no can that they would just have to fill out the paperwork you know so we're not a mess and I think you have to vote for one of the candidates but you gotta at least make your voice heard because then if you say I'm not voting for any candidate that also sends a message where you have to at least you know put a check mark on the paper you know and also try to make the kind of election just more interesting my book is my book. It's all about how fun these elections are you get out there you get involved and that's why you know we put out paper back right away and it's only $14 because so we can reach out to student and young voters and say look you know here's a really fun book you can afford and look look how great the if the process is I'm curious

and would be interested in you talk about Ralph Nader earlier in a conversation talk about how back in 2000 you would. Yeah and about how you know everyone will remember how he emerged as a somewhat contentious figure after that election some people blamed him for the defeat of Al Gore which I think is not fair but nonetheless he was blamed and we can see how this time around in many places people Democrats organized against him to try to make sure that he was not going to be a choice on the ballot because they were afraid whether true or not that that the same thing would happen this time around. I mean I wonder who's going to apologize to Ralph Nader when John Kerry wins by a large margin. You know so I say sorry for keeping you off the ballot we thought it was going to be closer. You know yeah I worked for him in 2000. I was just starting my career as a novelist I hadn't made the money yet. As a novelist as literally as it was just after the campaign I sold my first books and I went to work for him I would literally work for him out of D.C. and

I got involved originally I had stayed out of politics because. Because I was raised a ward of the court in Illinois and I was 14 you know at 13 when I left home 14 when I became a ward of the court. And I just didn't see a lot of hope for the state. And then I saw in California where Prop 21 passed which mandated all these children be tried as adults. Even though that and it's just an awful lot of sense all these children to adult prisons and I knew it was affecting the type of people that I grew up with and I realized then that if I participated if I really thought I could maybe of stop that from happening because nobody is really supporting the bill. It just kind of passed. And so I got involved in prison reform in early 2000 that led me to Ralph Nader and working for him and then I hung out with him again. You know I have a whole chapter of the book about meeting Ralph Nader again and hang out with him for a month and really coming to the conclusion that you know I don't I don't have a lot of the

really negative thoughts that people have about him. I am not supporting him this time. I think he's crazy to think that he when he says he's not stealing votes from Democrats I mean that just defies logic. Obviously he's taking votes from some Democrats. But at the same time you know I have respect his right to run. I came to the personal conclusion that he was this angry father he was this guy who you could never you could never live up to this guy. You can never. You can never get. Him you can never do enough for him and if you look he has very few old friends. You look at some of the other candidates have these friends from way back or the John Kerry people on swift boat with him and they're still friends and Nader doesn't keep friends that way because he's so stern and unforgiving that I really I just came this realization that you know I can never disguise make delist and I can never ever live up to him and that and that kind of free ticket is kind of freeing it's kind of similar I think to you know

losing your virginity you know like on the one hand you're not a virgin anymore on the other hand you can have sex now you know. So if you like let go of that of that you have that incredible cuddly stifling idealism. Ultimately not. Not realistic when you look at some of the big issues in this year's presidential campaign obviously the war in Iraq is perhaps number one at least in a lot of numbers on him. Yeah the Iraq war is very big. The the war has come to be called the war on terror and that you know a lot of. People means different things to different people. Then why do words have a problem with the with. In fact what we've done. And then if you look however at the domestic issues a lot of these things are the kind of things you would think appeal to a senior citizen such as myself you know people who are concerned about the future of Medicare and Social Security and cost of prescription drugs and things like that and I guess I'm I'm wondering I don't mean to put you in a position of speaking for you know voters 30 and younger but let's set the war aside.

Do you have some sort of sense about 4 4 voters in these younger age groups what to them is most important. Well I would say as you mention the war Stephanie the most important thing to them is setting that aside the environment is a huge issue for them. I would like to see young voters more thinking more about the debt deficit and the tax cuts because. Those deaths are not going to co way they're going to have to be paid and they're the ones that are going to pay the debt. So I wish that I wish that the U.S. voters would focus more on that issue but it's. But I just they don't realize because they haven't been in the position of paying off massive national debt. The consequences of these deficits are going to have for them what happens. You know you can't have a war and cut taxes. Nothing is free. I mean obviously you can but ultimately all

fall bills come due at some point. And it's the youth voters the younger voters they're going to pay for them they're already paying for them to get college tuitions skyrocketing and financial aid met being massively reduced. So students are already paying for paying for this already and there may not even realize how much cheaper school was just 10 years ago when I went to the University of Illinois and had that so much of my Pell Grant and other programs like that and it's going to be even harder on their kids. And so I wish they were. I wish that was a bigger issue for them and I got this I got the sense that it wasn't but that the Iraq the war in Iraq. I spoke with so many kids they did a whole half of a chapter on the college convention and I really hung out looking for that elusive youth vote. And I found that the war in Iraq and the environment are really the bigger issues. All right let's talk to someone here in Urbana line number. One below would happen is that when I did the

process of calling in you know the issue of the environment was unraised And so you pretty much covered it. I was surprised in terms of why I'm on different mailing list in terms of for the environment why collectively these you know like a consortium or some or other environments for the taking a beating. You know an expression you know when Bush first got in office and the sweat and lead in a bunch of other things I mean just incredible I mean somehow I guess people don't know what this means. You know or wouldn't I mean the uninformed going to you means in the long run or the other point is that you can go and companies or corporations can take the sites and then they walk away and we're stuck with a clean slate and they will and people don't realize. I agree with you 100 percent. You'll realize that when you use under age when companies are not regulated when you don't say to these companies hey you cannot destroy the environment and the companies do destroy the environment they have in the past. It's well documented that unregulated companies

will destroy the environment and this idea of self regulation is. You know as absurd we just we're just killing ourselves. Yeah that's a big issue with kids and I think people know I don't think there's any. I think bipartisan everybody knows that John Kerry is much better on the environment than George Bush and I say that as a nonpartisan person. But yes it doesn't seem to move as many voters as they should. It matters to the kids but you know will that will they mobilize I do really for the kids this year is is the Iraq war you know the other one that you know which is in terms of the global warming thing I mean that's another thing that you know is the way and not accepting science right because right and you can't deny the global warming for the first four years what Meanwhile you make it worse and you deny stem cell research on the same grounds. I understand that. I read in terms of that me take traction What do you think with the Republicans the stem cell research themselves research is a winner for Democrats.

You know it's like it's like it's one of those things where. Republicans are in a bind because their cause is their base. So they're kind of stuck in a position also because George Bush is is a real hardcore born again Christian and you might not agree with his religion but to think that he doesn't believe this stuff. You make a lot of the stuff he does. It's just policy and it's being influenced by the people the things that George Bush himself for sure holds true to his heart which I'm absolutely certain if he is vehemently pro-life vehemently against a woman's right to choose. He's and he's against stem cell research. He's a creationist. And and he's even he's very he really believes that homosexuality is a sin. And he strongly believes in that constitutional amendment and people and that the Constitution members think it's not great policy it's not it's not great politics even.

These are the things that he will not be moved on because he really holds them true to his heart. But you know whether you know he certainly has a drinking problem reconciling in terms of converts you know in other words people whether he was an alcoholic or whatever sometimes go that other direction too. You know the direction it is seems as he's taken right. Yeah. I area. OK good show. Thank you. Thanks for the coffee tonight. I wonder Stephen given the fact that you. Had the opportunity to see some candidates up close and follow the process would you ever consider running for office yourself. I don't think so you know I've written all these these dark novels about drugs and sex and I just think that would be used against me you know I have too long of a a track record I would be in I would probably enjoy being involved in the background and organizing a campaign I don't think I'd enjoy being a candidate. I mean I see myself more as a James Carville type than a Bill Clinton type.

Well what is what does it take to be an effective candidate do you think. Well it's so hard to say. People people think that John Kerry is not a great candidate because he can come off as as very stiff but he's great at organizing a campaign. He's an incredibly efficient. Executive miss traitor. And that certainly has had I would say everything to do with his success so far. He's you know also you know you look at these guys during the debates right the ability to stand up there and hammer at each other and then try not to flinch. Certainly charisma is you know you can never you can't underestimate you can't overestimate the importance of charisma of which John Kerry is kind of lacking is really hurt his campaign of John Kerry and John Edwards charisma. This would be a blowout. It would be a close election. And and that ability that George Bush has to connect with a small crowd is really something to behold.

It's really a you know like I didn't think he was so focused matic what I Somma television when I actually got to hang out with him and saw him in a in a small crowd. He's pretty amazing he has them is amazing ability. You know for a guy that comes from much more wealth and privilege than John Kerry John Kerry is played off as the guy who you know the Boston Brahmin the guy raise rich. And people always look at Bush like he was raised in a trailer home. This guy nobody in America came from more privileged than George Bush. But he is able to connect with people who are an educated and angry and poor and connect with them as if he is one of them it's amazing it's a diff it defies logic. Well it's one you know. It's the thing that you always hear about George Bush. Yeah. And that you see that he's not particularly great in press conferences he's not particularly great speechmaker in those kinds of situations. He doesn't do well but that he in this person to person stuff. He is really good I mean that's what I did. I

only the only know that from having read about him I haven't seen it but that's that's always the thing that you write about him you really connect with poor white anger and he gets he gets people to vote. He gets poor people to vote in favor of tax cuts for the rich. You know it's amazing you know that they would that the Republicans have brought this coalition of poor white people into into the fold is it's kind of it's Hard Time is a great book on it you know what's the matter with Kansas and it's really hard to understand. You know it's because of that. He has people voting against their own self-interest. I mean it's a lot of people who have good reason to vote Republican and vote for George Bush because a lot of people don't end up voting for him anyway and that's you know that's really something. Well that makes me think about how sometimes when people talk about politics they they fall back on the model of the. The student council election and they ask what to do. You know look at the tendency of Americans it is the tendency to vote for the guy who is the most likable. Or do you want to vote

for the guy who is the smartest and it seems that were really not quite sure how many we want. You want the guy who you want to drink with. What do you want the designated driver. You know who would you rather have you know running the country it's a very strange strange phenomenon but also it's the map seems to change every four years. It wasn't that long ago where the mainstream media had a major impact on these things. You know with the kind of news that has come out about Bush and what's happened in Iraq the kind of things have been written about him on the front page of The New York Times would sink a presidency. You know there's a time when LBJ said Oh I know that I've lost Walter Cronkite I don't have a chance. What about Vietnam. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. You know so it's it's hard to say that both sides have have created their own pipes you know pipeline information. And so what matters and what doesn't gets harder and harder to decipher and we look back and say well this matters and that matters. But we're already Ariff mission

will already be four years out of date. It's really we take everything from the last election. Yeah well we're at the point here I'm sorry. We're going to have to stop. I have to apologize to somebody who just now called. We're not going be able to take the call but for people who are in and around Champaign-Urbana I do want to mention one more time that our guest Steven Elliott will be doing a book signing at the line at Union bookstore at 6 o'clock tonight so you can stop by meet him pick up a copy of this book that we've mentioned which is titled Looking forward to it. The subtitle or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love the American electoral process and it's published by Pickett or Steven Elliott has written for GQ Newsweek relig voice San Francisco Chronicle He's also the author of four novels he teaches at Stanford and now lives in San Francisco but at the moment is traveling around the country talking about the book. Steven thank you very much for talking. Thanks so much for having me it's a real pleasure and I hope the people in it will get their questions in the bookstore I promise. All right very good hey.