Focus 580; Indian Politics

In the first hour of the program today we will be spending some time talking about politics in India and also certainly about the relationship between India and the United States. And we have as our guest this morning a gentleman who's been both involved in journalism in India and also in politics. Conny is our guest he's visiting the campus of the University of Illinois and was good enough to come and spend some time with us. He has had a long career as a journalist. He was sub editor of the National Indian daily Hindustan Times. It was in one thousand forty eight. And subsequently was editor of The Weekly organizer back in the early 60s he was a Neiman fellow at Harvard University. He's also served as a vice president of the BJP which they're currently ruling party in India. He was vice president of the BJP from 1991 till 1994 he also served as a member of the Indian Senate the upper house of parliament from 1904 until 1909 and currently it is to

be very much involved as a party strategist for the BJP. As we talk you certainly should feel free to be a part of the conversations. Questions are welcome and I know he will do his best to respond to the number here in Champaign-Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. Also we have a toll free line thats good anywhere that you can hear us and that is 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 3 3 3. W I L L toll free 800 1:58 wy lo those are the numbers thank you very much for being here we appreciate it. President Clinton was in the region back in March and at the time when he visited India he was the if I remember this all right he was the first American president to visit India in 20 years. He went to Pakistan it had been 30 years since an American president had been there and he visited Bangladesh and no American president has ever been there. And I think that that people

who live in in this region. I feel that they would like India Pakistan the West and South Asia to have a more important place on the American agenda. And it seems that the United States. Well during the Cold War was really quite sure what sort of relationship it wanted with India now that Cold War is over it still doesn't now. Can you talk a little bit about from the Indian perspective what sort of relationship. Indians would like to have with the United States. We'd like to have the fringes to relations with you his. Own feeling is that since the early 50s because of the military alliance with Pakistan U.S. is binutils on the side of Pakistan and says been a feeling. But with the end of the I think things have started changing. And that recent visit off the president didn't India I think has made a qualitative change to the

situation and we expect that relations will become familiar and friendly. What sort of obstacles do you see aside from what has been a longstanding relationship between United States and Pakistan. What what else is getting in the way. AUK is no pressures. On economic issues for a lot of pressure to open or introduce sector to foreign companies. If we thought it was in our interest and we opened it on our own that would be OK but it has been a continuous pressure. Open this open that they do see customs duties which will not only be good for Indian industry. I have a feeling that we have opened up the economy too much too fast and it is those many industries have closed down. I'll give you just one example. Still a part of India used to profit off something like.

Fifteen thousand crore rupees. Two years back. Today it is not lost to the civic tit and even the prime minister admitted in the Upper House that the employment situation is appalling. So I think there's been disappointed opening up of the good economy. How much of a problem in this relationship is that the disapproval of the United States of India's decision to test nuclear weapons. I don't that that has been particularly part of that. That's not that's not not it may be and it may be a problem but not not a big problem. Not much of a problem now is it. It seems that in. In American policy circles in many people's minds that is the number one issue. But you don't see that as being at more serious than anything in the not really

sanctions apply it didn't hurt us hardly at all. It didn't affect us in any way. But Gilla as it does a who's going trade with a continental economy and the sanctions were already that don't mean much. Such sanctions can hurt America as much as India. So I think some of them have been lifted Maybe that is to be lifted before long not much of a problem as I see it. I think for a long time before that the task before the first test occurred in 98. People who studied nuclear proliferation believed that both India and Pakistan had the capability to build nuclear weapons if they chose. And that for a long time they chose not to. The BJP came to power apparently feeling that this was something that was important for India to not only to have the capability but to demonstrate the capability and which led then some people to be very concerned about the possibility for

conflict in the region particularly between those two countries. Why did the BJP feel that it was so important to build and test these nuclear weapons. First nuclear testing in India took place almost a quarter century back in 74. After that repeatedly the government of India tried to go in for the second test and I understand that there was pressure not to do it and the government has it this time. The new government did not yield and went for it. Reasons for many. Number one the West always thought that India was denying it but it had some nuclear bombs. Dr This summer the Kotla who are getting averse to both wars we didn't have a bomb and were accused of taking one sixth of the. Nuclear science missiles deployed. These are the frontiers of science and technology.

We don't want to be left behind. And yes it could be considerations. We have it to Watts. Unfortunately for Pakistan we had one while the Shi'a and in this situation China has become a definite nuclear and we do that because I'm good and you do go to nuclear in this situation we thought in this city to have a few nuclear bombs with us. I know that there are people who in government who continue to feel that this was the right decision and that India security has been enhanced by the same token I'm not sure about how people in India feel this but people who study this part of the world feel the opposite. And in fact that somehow this has made and it was certainly has made the relationship between India and Pakistan more difficult and it is now probably as bad as it's been at least since the you fought the war that you mention in one thousand seventy one. Do you think are there people now who believe that this might have been a

miscalculation. I don't think so. There's been no opposition to the nuclear program in India. Nobody not even by the opposition parties nobody. Where do you think the program is headed. And one for example one recent story that I looked at suggested that at the point where India demonstrates its capability to build and detonate a hydrogen bomb that at that point then the government by be willing to say all right that's enough we've demonstrated this and what even consider signing the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. How far how far does this program go. This is for the military people these scientists and they go mentor to say. WE SHOULD I mean human creativity didn't. Just work. What sort of threat do you think that China poses to India.

The fact there is the effect it's trying to reach out to the Indian Ocean. It has very close relations with Burma. It's trying to get a bit equalisation Switzerland. And you have a nasty mug a chat room function. Are there there is still unresolved border issues between the two countries and they are underdog. Just recently the the President of India was in China and gave a speech saying that he thought that the two countries should work on improving their relations. Very diplomatic thing to say I guess. What prospect you think there are in fact for that for that relationship to get better over to this way. Does list tension between India and China could it and India was five years earlier or 10 years. I hope tensions will further reduce and maybe theyll be Lyttleton treat.

But the good issues did but we didn't have a feeling that I'm sorry to say this Mr. Little was wrong in conceding Chinese didn't deal with that but people to see who's Moussa for that. Viddy dep't very different from China as also from India. But ask anything it is closer links with India then to China. I think that was a mistake on the part of the dyn government of India who are new to it and that we are only expedience indexes have such solidarity and we likely conceded Johnnies claim we should not have done so. Why would I want to be clear that I understand here are you saying are you arguing that Tibet should be independent are you saying that I don't isn't that I don't think would be that to the but should be an event it deserves to be in charge of its own language of its own history of its own. But you also feel that it's the Tibet falls within the Indian sphere of influence.

Let it be independent. I know culturally it's closer to India because of Buddhism but we need not emphasized that too much. The Libyan debate and before beginning in Pakistan is not a small affair it's a huge land of Turkey. Video of a different with a distant cultured language literature. Everything. The desire to be free. Is there do you think competition between India and China for being the leading power in the region. It is is that part of the difficulty. I don't think so. See Asia as a huge continent but apps that help develop operations there in Asia. I does feel or sense of India should extend roughly from Aden on the wooden side to sing up in there. And that's why this fight he's been trying is obviously with US policy. I should introduce Again our guest for this morning we're talking with Carol Rommel Conny. He was

the vice president for a number of years between one thousand ninety and ninety four of the ruling party in India the BJP. He also served in the Indian parliament from 1994 until 1999 and continues to be very much involved in Indian politics. He also was a journalist for many years working for a couple of different Indian papers and is visiting the campus and was good enough to come over and spend time talking with us about India and Indian politics. The number here in Champaign-Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 or W. Wilde. There is probably a great understatement to talk about the difficulty in the relationship between India and Pakistan. And as I said that it's for a number of reasons it's probably tensions are probably greater now than they have been in the least. Well I don't know maybe about 20 30 here think for a number of reasons the nuclear issue is

one the coup in Pakistan another conflict over Kashmir another back at the point when. No i Sharif was still prime minister of Pakistan before the coup. He met with Mr. Bunch by and there looked like there were the beginnings of some reparse moment between the two countries and then some other things happened and that stopped. What possibility do you see for things getting back on track for for some talks between the two countries. I think books and has to have a democratic system. So at the vet at the very least you would say the military should not be running the country that we need there should be elections and thats the point to start and then you proceed from there. Circle Line. So there can there can be no no talks between the two governments and now they'll be no

serious talks. There might be contests at the lower levels but just as I don't visualized it from what I read it seems that there there are no contacts not only that the two governments on talking to one another but even at lower levels there are no contacts that there had been over time a variety of contacts on various levels and even more informal kinds of context have for the moment have ended. We have them just doesn't the two countries misconduct enough. Is there some role that the United States can play here in mediating this relationship I think is again play a very very positive role in his pursuit in Pakistan to season to restore democracy and to lead and be realistic and accept the situation. The border between India and Pakistan and Kashmir the Line of Control should be to go nice as finace and and that Kashmir should continue to be part of

India because we stand divided we keep what we have. We got illegally the yoke abated forcibly but the government of India may be willing to concede the situation on the other side. We have a couple of callers and would be happy to hear from others. The number here in Champaign-Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 we also have toll free line good anywhere that you can hear us that is 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 I will start out with a caller in Peoria on number four. Good morning. Yes. Do you know about Caterpillar tractor company and several hundred Indians and a computer division. If you were here of course we do. Sure. Yes I think I think I guess he's acknowledging the fact that he does know that and we have to adopt it. Grandchildren from India one is from South India and the other is from North India.

They're excellent students who want to be too sure. Why is it that the young people are leaving leaving because they live in Dad they come back to India. They come here for better prospects for more education would YOU CAN STILL opportunities people who are coming to us here from all of the world from China from Japan from UK from from maybe this. So what is the magnet. Thank you. At the other one when one talks about the possibility of a greater economic relationship between India and the United States one of the things one has to acknowledge that India is not only is it a large country and may be the world's largest democracy but it also may have the world's largest middle class. Is it does India find it difficult to try to provide opportunities for those people and it is are people forced

to go to the United States or go elsewhere in the world because the Indian economy simply can't absorb their talents. We have so much talent that you can easily afford exports. There are video bright middle class people who go into the V.A. do anything to have their children educated. Dilute the dates and get the truth and you do get it. We're not of taking advantage. Is that more people know or perhaps know that high tech pretty particular software has become very important part of the Indian economy and that has become an important a very important export for India. Is there any sense that that sector of the economy has been stressed to the to at the expense of perhaps some others. Or is it just that this is this is the thing that we hear about and it's not I don't think so. This had to have talent enough in all fields.

Well stuck with another call I will go to Urbana line number one. Oh yes yes. You spoke of a precondition for eight years I believe that that focused on democracy you know I did. To begin improving the relationship. And the fucking sun did have democracy democratically. Elected government before this one and things did not improve even on a humanitarian level. I'm particularly thinking about the issue that Jonkheer recently brought out into the public on our visit to India saying that at least 50 or more Indians. Q O W's from 1971 and

1965 still maybe in Pakistani jail. Another news said at least could be as high as sixteen hundred. Is there any any chance that progress could be made on this issue is there any sign from the Pakistani side that they would be relink to consider a beginning on this basis now that 30 years have passed but 35. In one case I would like to hear your views on this. Thank you. There was one recent case of an Indian being returned from Pakistan. If there are any more I hope that it done and if any period abuse detain an Indian site. We also heard from them. This should be frankness on both sides. So this you say this remains an open question whether indeed there are

on either side and nobody admits that limits it's possible that there are some on both sides. You did it as the caller pointed out you were talking about the fact that at this point you don't see the possibility of talks between India and Pakistan as long as Pakistan continues to be under military rule. But as the caller said you know things weren't necessarily all that better when there was a democratic government doing much better. There were two Princess meet. Well they've Yes they met and have a public big great big bubbly reception for the Indian prime minister. And I'm sure that in months the Pakistan Prime Minister also visited India and think some would improve footrest I think that our interests listed interests which do not want Indo-Pakistan relations to pool. Western interested they didn't. Who's part of a vested interest so you're thinking perhaps of oh shall we say the Pakistani military one is that

he's the because in this image united India before 47 India was one state. There was one there would be one had a state one it of government one parliament one Supreme Court go to the whole thing as been the Teagle amend features and stuff and all the services civil and military have a listed interest in continued tensions and partition. It has been suggested that it did do it is the man who now is heading the government of Pakistan General Musharraf who was responsible for the move of Pakistani troops into Kashmir last summer that started the latest round of fighting there. What do you think or are there people who believe that this was a deliberate action undertaken by the military in Pakistan who didn't want to see an improved relationship between Pakistan and India. I think so.

And by the same token there are there are Indians who also don't want to see improved relationship theatre going around I don't know any such unions. You don't know of any any who like listens to improve. Who would like to live in peace and amity is if there was a time in diverse tension between let's say the U.S. and Canada for the last hundred years ever living in peace we should have similar relations between India and Pakistan visit Pakistan should not try to compete with India it cannot do it as India is six or eight times the size of Pakistan. It always population ways industry ways system possible. Even USSR could not compete with us. Haha does Pakistan compete with India. It can only fail. It will go bankrupt I'm sorry to say this being an old Pakistani I was born in the Pakistan area of a certain empathy with the people in Pakistan I think they are not very long quotes. From what I read again of commentary about politics of the region

some people suggest that the difficulty with getting the two sides to talk is that each side is expecting the other side to go first. In a sense that you know India wants Pakistan to make concessions back and I want India to make concessions there and the only way this is going to go forward if is if both sides agree to somehow make parallel sorts of moves so that each side can he can say yes we're doing something which you're doing something but that to date it's been too much the case that each side wants the other side to the other side to go first essentially the no side need make concessions to the site. We just keep what issues are in deep freeze five years 10 years and been very liberal as the economies have more and more trade if not complete free trade. We should move in that direction. Good if the situation is that we in India cannot get Pakistani papers and books people in Pakistan do not know what is happening in India except from what they hear from the radio of the TV.

So there should be a free will made of books magazines newspapers I think that be one good big day. People together and there should be fear to issue a visa. As you know we had a visa considered in Karachi and has been closed down. A lot of people in Pakistan want to visit India. I'm sure lots of people in India want to visit Pakistan. We should encourage these artists scientists journalists they should be free to move out of focus and doesn't seem to be interested in that kind of people to people contact. Why do you think that is. I think they have a fear if more and more people cross the border to go to the other side they'll find that we are basically one people vote both of us speak the same set of languages and that might weaken the Redcliffe line the partition line but again Pakistani people and at least the establishment in Pakistan is afraid of that situation that they would like to continue to have people of Pakistan think of India as being an aggressive

neighbor rather than a peaceful laughs. And youth do you think that if those economic exchanges cultural exchanges those sorts of things started and could continue for some point then that would make it easier. Sometime in the future to resolve political difficulties like Kashmir that's that seems to be the number one number one problem. Or are there others that that we in the West perhaps don't hear that much about. This meat is a major problem but it is not the core problem the core problem is the antipathy between two states between two societies. The hit propaganda that went on with the movement for partition. This is at the root of it to this day history books in Pakistan give a video wrong impression about India Indian society. Hindu Hindu religion is it. Actually a friend referred to a smudge on it. I made this point when you met last month

in Delhi and I said that I should be his major too but not the issue is does he trip today but as you point out he agreed and she said that even if Kashmir issue is solved lifted interest was picked up some other issue take up some other issue. The country will depart. I even suggested that we should exchange what history books particularly history books. Let them have a look at Indian history books. We can have a look at Pakistan history books. If there's something wrong something that is not object of tenderness not fear we can have it connected to say the two sides have to be has gentlemen's speech where you talked about the fact that both people in India Pakistan really should should remember should appreciate just how much they have in common. What aside from perhaps religious differences since Pakistan is Muslim predominantly and India is Hindu predominately what other sorts of differences are there is not. That's why that's really it.

The religious thing is does the Major do what is there is there but know the differences. You know the same racial mix on both sides. Will you call it audio not video since 10 or whatever you will get for the literacy at the community of jocks. You have Hindus Muslims out you have six yards and so on to talk about the video because in every community. So apart from this league just difference there's no difference in the people's. So it goes back to two people in power interested in staying in power and having its largest sphere of influence as they possibly can. Quite right. Here is a color in champagne to talk with why he won. Well you just answered my question and I just did religion I think it's the transcendent issue that divides the people of Pakistan and India and I think you. It's

your graphical problem if you've ever been there Kashmir you don't want to live in Kashmir it's basically barren and desolate. I think if you go back to when India was pretty and I think the British colonial period of about 300 years created Hindu against the Moslems. Divided I became independent Pakistan and India. How many Hindus were killed trying to get from Pakistan to India and I mean Moslems were killed trying to get from India to Pakistan. I mean this problem over religious intolerance is really that serious deep problem that will forever haunt relations between Pakistan and India and unless they can come to grips with that just like we perhaps can ever come to grips with the problem of black and white racism in this country they have serious problems and unless they can talk about that honestly and deal

with it honestly they will always be a. True powderkeg and we're all queue up to queue up political politics. Strike time. Well if you want to comment on what the caller had said. You're right and the only thing the device Indians and Pakistanis is this is really just intolerance and I'm afraid this leaves us intolerance is hurting Pakistan also because down many many digits takes among the Muslim community. There are the Sunnis the Shia the M&M and I'm sure there are many more who has been locked up for fighting between these groups themselves and up but I also think that we did the things that divide Indians and Pakistanis are not a fraction as he is as those that divide device from the blacks in America. In India and Pakistan we're all basically one people divided only by the legion. You just persuasion. But it's those not particularly religious but think beyond that. For this we are the same vicious dog the same

culture. Simplistic. I was pleasantly surprised in Pakistan to see the sun celebrated sometime back the students union of Punjab decided that the national festival of Punjab was best hockey which is an old ancient traditional Indian festival. So supposedly also there is not much to divide the two countries basically only that he just agreed that he likes us. Just for a moment going back to Kashmir the it's one of the complications I I gather is that it. Not not all Kashmiris are of one mind about what the future of the country should be. There are people who would like me to be independent There are some people who would like to continue to be allied with India there are some people who would like to be allied with Pakistan it seems that there are parties there pulling all different directions. Do. You do you think that what we're really talking about here over the long

term solution does does amount to a kind of a partition of the area and say all right part of this is part of it's going to be Indian part of it's going to be Pakistan and and I don't know what else because there do continue to be people there who who want to be an independent state. Then I devoted but now that India nor Pakistan will agree to independent Kashmir let us remember one thing and this is a huge state. Joe moved to Sweden to duck state then was put on his behind legs predominated with this the only dispute is about the dusty valley. And I think the total aid office meet is about 600 squared mice. This all that is there. I think it would be reasonable for both in Pakistan to accept the situation on the ground except the lying as find it complete and get on with the business of fee a creative fee it travels.

The BJP is generally referred to in the press. I see it as a Hindu nationalist party or as the Hindu Nationalist Party. Just what is the role of religion in the BCV. What sort of significance does it have. BJP is as Hindu as a Christian Democratic parties of Europe are Christian. It is a dominant society but there is nothing particular to do about it except that India has a sometime at 85 percent in the population. So the general tone is in though there is no doubt about it. India is a democrat society that reflects those as petitions whether down that so it doesn't it doesn't necessarily play a role in policy formation not a top

BJP is not a Hindu but is a nationalist party. And this nation includes of course Hindus but everybody is Muslim Christian everybody else. We all have equal rights equal responsibilities. Has the certainly the charge has been made to the BJP as an anti Muslim party crew that tried has been met. This it isn't for that. In 47 Vin Endeavour's partition. The artist has which is a kind of a moderate organization followed US laws opposed to partition it had as much right to oppose partition as some other people have a right. This will partition so Muslims have an impression from those days that because these groups would untap audition the adults and to most of them but this is not a good position to do we have many Muslims in the party will find it a Muslim as governor as a Muslim in the central government for long years we had little of the

vision for leave aside was Muslim second of all. And they are not doing the Muslims prominent in the comedies its that of some of the most of the top people in leadership made it to Pakistan. So that is a complex issue. And death prophet peace in the country I think has been probably no drag us right in the last few years. Let's talk with another color in Freeport. This is a line number for Hello. Yeah. Are under what's called the British Raj or the English Raj and proper dog years of ham and of course as a kid Ireland in that one Greek heard 1840 when many people died from it. Do the people in the air. Remember that

these historical tragedies and our are united in that they were all refusing to go on to be dominated again because actually the western interests are greatly dominating commercially today you know. How about that. Well do do Western business interests greatly dominate India commercially today. Let me ask that the guest that questions if he agrees. Yeah. Not clearly not too big. Well now there's a May in the end for the professionals you know doctors engineers and so on doesn't. And you can hear him quite a lot actually if they didn't go back to their own country after receiving their education. Sure sure you paid our grand country for our standard of living. Oh not clearly I don't look upon it as brain drain. I look upon it as but in

gain. People come here if I had to question to climb into an intense send back money home. Many of them like to return to the results won't it. So I think it is an exchange that is beneficial to both sites. To Monica. A. near or in my own area a very excellent and can't course. Feminine in gun 43 who own heavy that India has not faced a famine after independence. The body due to the fact that we have a democratic system. I'm sorry to know that China had a very big time in the million of some people to 30 million people died. People do die of poverty of undernourishment but there has been no feminine India in the last 50 years. You realize that the US Department of Agriculture added in what improved crops you know credit any

major travel. Well I think it's DMX against the middle grade difference. Well thank you for the call Arthur. Let's go to another caller here in the champagne this would be line number one. Hello. Oh geez. Because I was talking about the BJP I was just a beauty. Yes. Did any mostly what any minority in the BJP led gone think I'm going to shoot of all features and could you please. We do have one in the got in it. You do have on most two to make at a cabinet Yes. And we have one go and I must I'm going to be a man who was appointed to govern not a moment for the moment. Oh they go oh I see. So that at the most going to need you later. Oh yeah yeah. One want. I'm OK. But yeah I was just beauty of all that because I don't get much at all. And he mostly is pocketing the garment. They just don't get it.

Because to me they are not my not if they're true. I would expect that the monsters would be the person getting it wrong that the problem is like this. And indeed we all want together. Not too many Muslim MP in the ouse but lots of employees who have got elected because of Muslim support so they all sort of prison Muslim interests it is not only Muslim MP is what a prison Muslim interest is all those in peace and and get all Muslims all over the country in every contingency. So whoever is elected to represent his constituency including a minority in this country we have a new Black Caucus thinking that it can act back in India. Not yet maybe we have it in course of time. OK thank you Daryn. Thank you for the call. It is my perception and you can correct me if this is wrong is that in over the last few years that there's been some tumult and Indian politics at least it did and do again correct me if I'm wrong but I believe

that it that India has had five governments in the last three years that has that why haven't they and although now after last after elections the last Fall I think there are some people are expecting now perhaps we'll have a period where things will be a bit more stable. I think BJP has consolidated its control. Some what. But why has it. Has it been such a sort of confused time over the last few years. Complex question. You know part of other tournaments that the majority of somebodies got together and picked up somebody said we'll support you from outside and the government went on for after that it is party supported from outside that group as for the other man. He also Denso them so they do support the real unfortunate thing happened last year as a plan and then

they moved the vote of confidence a vote of confidence was passed by one walked and that also a very dubious support. And we are thinking of amending the constitution to introduce the German practice. That vote of confidence cannot be moot unless the oppositions agreed on somebody else to be the new prime minister had this will be in bed and they're in a contradiction earlier this won't open on low confidence just would not have been moved here because they were not agreed on who would be the new president the new prime minister. One of the things that I read it as. It comes under the heading of how we need politics is changing. Is that more it appears that more people particularly poor people are becoming involved in politics. They're organizing. There are parties that come to represent their interests and that they're they're voting and

in fact Indian. If anything Indian politics is becoming more complex rather than less because there are more people who are active and there are more parties as OK this will come. This is a functioning democracy. It can give any advice to this democracy but it did it as I think all things considered it's good that we have a democracy and a video functioning that he had a democracy. Everything's transparent. Well does that does that really mean that that every government is going to have to be a coalition and that is going to be different. It's just going to be continue to be more and more difficult to put coalitions together. Oh don't we don't have to think in terms of causation that in a country of this size any government is a police enough interest when there's a police show the entry is a coalition of bodies as they is a country that is even the Congress party. It was not a mono that buy into all kinds of interests and any number of compromises going into that make

this bitter to have an open frank coalition and then on some kind of an opportunist ties coming together I think Congress made a serious mistake in not inviting other parties to join hands with us. I go so far as to say that India is so big so complex that even if a party has a majority of its own it should invite the parties do giant hands shit in your sponsored a country the size and complexity of India cannot be taken followed by a media party on it. Did do you think that the Congress. The Congress Party made a mistake in in turning to Mrs. Gandhi that is the rush leaves with him is a guy they had to to be the leader of the party in the certain Congress suffered a very serious defeat last night. I can give it a very bad mistake we made a bad mistake. It was there that it seemed that she on the one hand that she came along at a time when Congress was in great disarray

and that she at one point she was looked at as being the savior of the party and that of course after the big defeat she was the go to was the SSC this the scapegoat what which which of those two things was at what was she both Or was it just a mistake to look to her as being a rallying figure I think she just does not go for public lights which she doesn't know India it does India doesn't know her. She should not have gone father and assume this is possibility and I think Congressman activity is a sponsibility on selecting her has ended what was it really a big problem for a lot of Indians the fact that she was was not born in India partly in the sense that she doesn't speak any Indian language. A good example. They were just getting it like in that speech a literal fada and she would come and read it. No this is new video coming on politics an event that can make India a nano Kinch. She said in that in speech that I'm so sorry

you had to read for long hours in the sun. I thought it was a dating at the time which she had but she didn't know was whether you know what was happening what she was eating. Well I'm afraid that we're coming to the point here that we're we're going to have to stop because we have used our time my apologies here have a color that I cannot take. But we will have to leave it at that with our thanks to all Rahm Makani for being here former vice president of the BJP and former member of the Indian Senate continue to be very involved in politics in India. Thank you very much. Thank you for talking with us. Programming here are made possible in part by Strawberry Fields on West bring field Avenue in downtown Urbana Strawberry Fields provides a wide assortment of natural foods vitamins and supplements as well as a full deli coffee bar Bowker herbs fresh breads and produce. If you are not yet a member of the friends of W. wild this is an important time to consider making your first

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