Focus 580; Clinton and Me: A Real Life Political Comedy

Good morning welcome to focus 580 This is our morning talk program My name's David Inge and we're glad to have you with us. If you go to the bookstore or the library I'm sure that you will find on the shelves a great many political memoirs books that were written by people who were insiders in various administrations talking about their experiences and the view that they got that was different from the view that we all get who are on the outside. So there's really nothing new about the political memoir This morning though we'll be talking with the author of a newly published political memoir that is different and it's different by virtue of the position that he held. We'll be talking this morning with Mark Katz. He is a speech writer and humorist and he is a man who for a period of time was employed by the Clinton White House to write funny stuff for the president to say his book is entitled Clinton and me a real life political comedy. The book is just fairly recently published published by Hyperion. In addition to his political work his essays have been published in The New York Times The New Yorker and time and also aired on National Public Radio and he is joining us this morning

by telephone. And as we talk with Mark Katz your questions are certainly welcome. The only thing we ask of callers is people are brief and we ask that so that we can keep the program moving and getting as many different people. Will but anybody is welcome to call the number here in Champaign Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. We do also have a toll free line that's good anywhere that you can hear us around Illinois and Indiana in fact if you were listening over the Internet you could use the toll free line as long as you are in the United States. Eight hundred to 2 2 9 4 5 5 so whichever number works for you you want to call it. You can do that. Mr. Katz Hello. Good morning David how are you. I'm fine thanks and yourself. So far so good. After all you had plenty of bad things can still have to know in the end the truth. Well you know before answering the question or going to the question which I imagine would be in some people's minds why is it that a president needs a joke writer part of the answer I suppose is now a time of the year which is come to be called the silly season. And so maybe that would be a place to

start. What is the silly season. That's exactly the best place to start because you know not only people in Washington know this it's one of the cultural oddities. Our beltway politics is that four times a year we ask our presidents to come and give a funny speech to generally a roomful of press people you may have heard of the Gridiron dinner which was actually just last week. The Radio and Television Correspondents Dinner and Washington's unofficial prom. The White House Correspondents Dinner. And that's when the president comes is invited to come. And usually in conjunction with a professional comedian gives a funny speech. He'll usually speak first and the comedian will go later and it's just one of the cultures of Washington. And but yet you know he's got to go up there and say something funny and buy jobless to assist President Clinton further. I worked for him for both terms for all eight years and I call that running the comedy war room which was the people in process by which the speeches got produced. And it

was my job to kind of you know should I WOULD I didn't work at the White House year round I would just parachute into the White House four times a year kind of get the comedy war room up and running trying to figure out what was the right versus comic response to its moment in time. I'm So you know that's how I came to kind of experience a president in a presidency as no one else ever really had. And so you weren't responsible for coming up a little humorous things that might be inserted into speeches like the State of the Union or anything like that well not not a matter of course you know when we have an extra five minutes of hey one of my favorite stories about the TO FUNNY JOKE I almost got in the state of the Union address. But you know generally I would to you know concentrate on these four dinners and then you know throughout the course of the year I get a phone call he's going here do you have an idea for something he might say. Yeah. The and I'm sure though that it's to with with anybody. I guess if you were working for somebody who was who was a comedian you'd have to get the material by the guy. And there's always going to be some stuff that the the client will say yes or no and you start with the

speech that one of the speeches and the tell the story of the egg timer and people will remember particularly early in President Clinton's career that he was famous for giving long speeches and it was a subject of both some good natured ribbing and outright ridicule people making fun of him giving Israel a long speech or so you thought OK let's do. See if we can do something with that and you pitch to him this idea of an egg timer. Yes in Jewish January of 1995 when he gave a State of the Union address. And it's a perilous moment in his presidency if you remember he had just three months earlier. We had Democrats had locked in. House of Representatives for the first time in a generation. Newt Gingrich and the Contract With America Congress and at this moment they really. Clinton really needs to win back its own presidency he was kind of seen as America's first half term president and he gave a State of the Union address to kind of steal back his own agenda and gave a speech that was so ambitious

that it set a record for time. A one hour and 21 minutes. You know I mean you remember you could look over my shoulder and watching it and see Al Gore starting to nod off. You know that's bad if you put knockout to sleep the whole bad you know where he was. But just four days after that was the first in a series the silly season speeches the Alfalfa dinner and suddenly the speech I was working on had a reason to be relevant because now he's giving a funny speech on the heels of the very long mind numbing speech he refused to end. And the idea that I pitched to him that night in a holding room just an hour or so before he was about to give it was that he would come to the podium. Egg Timer from his pocket said it took five minutes and put it on the corner of the podium kind of unleashing you know the kind of laughs that's why self directed joke would get him. And then I'd always have a better joke to come which was was the bell the egg timer went off. He would just keep on adding time as many times as he won time after time. Getting a laugh each time. You know. Or so the theory went except for the

fact that in that holding room an hour before the speech is about to get he could not have hated that idea more. He rejected the idea this speech was too long he rejected the idea that he should make fun of himself in front of the same people who do making fun of him for these many days. And it was a dramatic confrontation in the name of this chapter is the bravest thing that I've ever done. Because after he took the egg timer from my hand visibly and physically removed it from my grasp and put it three feet away on a mantle I didn't know what speech he was going to give or what he was going to say when he got up there so I reached for this egg timer so demonstrably. Banished and pulled it back into our conversation said sir in case you change your mind. Well you know after his unequivocal rejection of the earth that was like you know Christina Crawford asking of her Mommy Dearest are you absolutely certain you don't want me to use a wire hanger you know. So as it turns out he went out to give it he rewrote the speech

while he's up for the day and really it didn't work out very well he gave a speech that night that was kind of a less funny and less gracious and less self directed than it should have been. And he actually was dying up there. It was it was he's had a great night I've seen him have great nights 100 times over. This was not a great night. And as he's up there dying in that he can feel it. He reaches into his pocket and pull something out and says maybe this'll help. And if the egg timer and he gets his one good laugh of the night and it was. Instructive to him and it's you know in kind of the what the what the model of what the humor needs to be for him and for all people in power you know and it was a turning point in his relationship to humor and my ability you know to kind of help him navigate these waters these treacherous waters in Washington D.C. where these journalists would come and they're there to take your measure. And you know he needed he needed to adjust the model and understand better what humor in Washington needs to be and did so and did degrade it to great effect for the rest of his time in office.

Now let me introduce Again our guest for this part of focus 580 Mark Katz he is a speech writer and humorist. His essays have been published various places including the New York Times and The New Yorker. And as he has explained he for awhile was a humor writer for President Clinton and he tells the story of some of his experiences in the Clinton administration. In this role in the book Clinton and me a real life political comedy and it's published by Hyperion. And questions comments from people listening are certainly welcome we do have somebody standing by here. We will get right to you in Aurora. And it's on our. Toll free line line for I this is some wonderful information written by a student at Drake University who covered the caucus in the fall and it was at the Senate a tomahawk and a fundraiser for the Iowa Democratic Republic Democratic Party. This was

was really a treat I'm reading for the newspaper he wrote on it. This straight friar has written held in Warren County. And if you can imagine two days of straight rain before the event the SEALs dissolved into mud pits. And now I have hundreds of volunteers for each candidate news coverage a couple of thousand attendees and seven presidential candidates. Oh and least I forget a guy who knows a thing or two about being president. Bill Clinton. That's right. This sums up Iowa. And so then he goes on to say so for four months before the caucuses were actually stopped we were able to hear six candidates speak. Kerry Edwards Dean Braun Dennis Bob Graham and Gephardt even though I was able to shake hands with John Edwards and see the rest of the candidates the

coolest thing was to hear Bill Clinton speak. It was honestly if he was some kind of a rock star of the Democratic Republic Democratic Party there was a mild buzz when the candidates begin to speak with their supporters gathering in front of the speaking area. But when the people heard that Bill Clinton was next to speak. Everyone pretty much dropped everything to listen although it had been raining all day and people were pretty cold most able bodied people came out of the huge tents and quietly hung every word he spoke. All of the candidates try to energize the crowd with their thoughts on what the Bush administration was doing etc.. Even Bill Clinton strolled up to the stage. He easily wrapped everyone in the crowd under the blanket of the Democratic Party praising all the

candidates as the strongest field they'd seen in years and that whoever would emerges than the nominee would have the support of the entire Democratic Party. All through this he was laid back. Cracking jokes causing the whole crowd to nod in agreement. It was as if he had us all spellbound. Definitely a very cool experience. And those are the words of a 21 year old student. And I also want you to know they did a poll on a radio station 20 about 20 people called up and said that they would vote for Bill Clinton if he would run again. Well it's interesting read and mark out you can reflect on your experience but I think what it illustrates is that for a lot of Democrats at least Clinton continues to be a very caring charismatic character. You know with with real people Bill Clinton is a once in a

generation talent. He not only is. And you know I think we're all we're all spoiled by him I can get occasional fixes on him now by watching this television program The West Wing. And after that I pretty much have to go back and read all speeches because you know I you can you can imagine my you know partisan inclinations and affiliations and you know it is upsets me. Tactically when I watch our current president and he can't light the Christmas tree without having a prepared script by his staff and unable to think on his feet and say what he thinks. Bill Clinton had it had talent that no one knew existed until he demonstrated them and it was an honor honestly to to work with him to work for him to be be at the march of the administration and to help him find a skill that he you know needed to develop and did develop you know no one. He's got a learning curve like few people do and he

came to master political humor that egg timer story you know notwithstanding it really was an important point because he did learn the lesson he needed to know which is that humor can be an important of an important facet of his inordinate skills as a communicator. And he went on to incorporate that in ways it weighs a few presidents have I mean you know Reagan comes to mind. John Kennedy in his short time in the White House. Could you tell me what role you think he'll play in the Democratic Party this election. You know he's he will bestride the earth like Colossus. You know he you know there's all kinds of speculation about there are you know you know whether it's in the form first lady has her own ambitions to run for the presidency. But I think that he knows that this is a moment that's too perilous a time to be playing politics and that he will devote his full energies to electing John Kerry as president because the stakes are just too high. And he knows that he understands

context he understands historical scope and I doubt very much that he would hold back an ounce of his energies you know to keep to and help John Kerry to every degree that he can. Thank you know and thank you for the girl. Well questions are welcome again our guest is Mark Katz who worked in the Clinton administration as a speech writer and humorist and as he explained his main responsibility was to help craft these speeches that the president would give at these four annual Washington humor dinners that all take place between January and April this time as as we talked in the beginning of the program that is known at least in Washington as the silly season events that pro. Don't get a lot of attention outside of Washington D.C. outside the Beltway but oh you know they always think you know the White House Correspondents Dinner is on C-SPAN every years as is the Radio and Television Correspondents Dinner So these events are actually becoming better known I think. And because President Clinton did so well with them I think fit the profile was raised even just a little higher.

So I think these are escaping the Beltway. Well is there grit has there over time been more and more pressure on the president to get to give a good performance. Sure. I know that we felt it you know during his eight years because he would he would do well on the speeches. It's something you know in fact my secret my secret that he was I love to hear people say that. And I heard it almost every time I have to say. People come up to me and say he was funnier than comedians and that to me was the standard I secretly tried to meet even though it was hard and I was a senator I hope you could meet. And and he did you know. Because the president has advantages subtle advantages that a comedian doesn't have and people are eager to laugh to to you know to pump him up and to laugh with him and get that in the margin of what he can say is a lot smaller the spectrum is is much narrower because he is who he is. But the laughs are deeper I think within that within these margins that he has.

So he does he he he. The pressure was there and he met this. He met the challenge each and every year I have to say. Well you can certainly you can take great material and deliver it badly but a great comic if the material is not good. You know you can't you can't make something out of nothing so you might if you did well you would have to say well Mr. President you know you put it across real well but you have to be saying shelf. But I'm the guy who wrote this stuff and I'm the guy once spoken belong to the speaker. And really it was such a collaboration on a fundamental level because it wasn't funny until it came out of him funny and that was a process unto itself and he was an important part of the speech writing process we would meet with him before we would put the speech she had only just had just a handful of avenues he wanted to explore and go check in with him to see what he thought was funny and then we go back with a draft of the speech and spend a glorious 45 minutes sometimes an hour in the oval office going through the speech rehearsing it with him

getting his feedback getting his input making it his own. And you know I had a learning curve. I had to understand who he was and how to help him how to write for him. Early on I would kind of write speeches that were one liners organized by topic and he got those to those speeches fine but there was only one one of the one of the smart people I worked with the head speechwriter guy named Don Baer pointed out to me that he really did best with constructions that were formed in the NSA story line and narrative arc. And if we can find a story line that was kind of built by one Gee funny joke at the time but that collectively built the narrative arc he would turn it into something all altogether different and his own. And those were the times when the speeches started to sing and they were particular to his his effective and inordinate talents. Let's talk with someone else here we have someone on a cell phone so we'll get right there line one. Well I just wanted to say that I find those

four speeches that you mentioned given annually to be the best speeches by any politician throughout the year and I think you can sort of trace that back in terms of presidential humor did to John F. Kennedy in his press conferences and I think it is just a comment that it must've been difficult to write to Bill Clinton because except for his long winded list he wasn't really have a lot of people that he could make fun of himself. George Bush is is an absolutely superb deliverer of comedic lines because he has so many people he doesn't. Now all the words correctly and he has a certain way of delivery that I find him to be one of the funniest men that I've heard in a long time. But I can imagine that that is harder to work with someone who we expect to be intelligent. And therefore I think it's hard to get a job for those people that other little people

will laugh at. What do you think about that. I've never heard it suggested that Bill Clinton won. Her foibles I mean I'm surprised to hear you say that I know the tricky part was which one. You could do jokes about you know I you know early on I thought cheeseburgers were funny. You know for him to do jokes about you know his his presence his penchant or his in it at least in popular culture really kind of the cultural shorthand was a hit with the McDonald's of the French fries. I wrote 20 jokes on cheeseburgers. Honestly he didn't care for them. So he it was you know we all have our own private vanities he didn't care for the image of him is kind of the cheeseburger chomping president and yet I thought it was such a great way to go because we all have you know it's such a human thing food is funny and cheeseburgers are funny and McDonald's is funny and super sizing things or so I thought there was all kinds of great paths to go down. He wasn't that interested in them. In fact remember pitching a joke to him predicated upon you know his penchant for McDonald's and he let me know when on no

uncertain terms that he hadn't been in a McDonald's since he'd been elected presidency and that was pop. I'm sure that was true except for the fact that I thought the McDonald's jokes would suit him fine as the administration went on but he did you know one of them is far spoilsport go I mean you know just imagine your first his first 100 days in office which did not go well at all as we know you know between gays in the military and his hunting to enjoy a haircut on the tarmac of L.A.X. Here's a joke that he did have the courage to do based on his own political SLI got up there at the hundred day mark of his first you know first 100 days in office and said this. The Washington press corps. He said I don't think I'm doing that bad. After his first 100 days in office William Henry Harrison had already been dead for 68 days. You know that's it. That's a joke directly to the heart of a foible. And so he did it and got better at it over time so I think I disagree with the premise that he did wax reportable and flaws to make fun of. And he you know the real challenge as time went on is you know which ones

can you make fun of and how do you do it. Well that's and I guess I find myself going back to the first story about the egg timer getting somebody to poke fun at themselves about their long winded. That's pretty mild and you know I don't know how you get somebody to past get somebody past the point where you wouldn't even make a joke like that about yourself to the point where you would make other kinds of jokes that. Bout other shortcomings or other personality quirks I know I guess I don't know how you get to some from somebody from from no egg timer to be willing to go into stuff that was even more problematic. That's it then you just described the arc of his learning curve because he did he did all that he'd learned that you know that the right decision was the time or you learned the right decision was poking fun of the bad 100 days he he he learned that you know he showed up. Imagine you spent months in the White House press corps and going for your personal finances for month after month and returned to Whitewater of course and he has to show up at the White House. The radio and television corresponds

to that year in front of all these people who have been basically auditing him on the evening news and he gets up that night and says I'm thrilled to be here. And if you believe that I have some land in northwest Arkansas I'd like to sell you. You know so he did he did kind of go at it. The stuff that was right at the heart of the matter. Our guest in this part of focus 580 Mark Katz as he has been a humor writer for the president he's a speech writer and humorist has contributed essays to New York Times and New Yorker and time has been on National Public Radio. His book talking about his experiences in the Clinton administration is out and it's titled Clinton and me a real life political comedy and it's published by Hyperion. Questions are welcome 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. Toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. We talked a bit earlier about the fact that your main job was to work on these these four humorous speeches that he would give at these these

dinners. January through April but you said that there was one story about the joke that you almost got into the STATE OF THE UNION. How about the ones that got away than those killed by killed me in it was that same state of the Union Address 1995 that went on for one hour and 21 minutes. And they knew it was going to be kind of a jarring visual image to see the president at the you know in the House chamber at the podium addressing the nation and both chambers of Congress and INS and the Supreme Court justices. It can be jarring to see him with Newt Gingrich sitting over his shoulder you know this that tight shot always with the speaker of the House the vice president standing behind the president as he gives a speech. And they also knew that the Republicans in the chamber were going to give Newt Gingrich a rousing applause you know to celebrate the fact that he was now their speaker. So they the White House wanted to cut a joke that kind of acknowledged this new reality because it really was

going to be quite a jarring thing to see it. And I remember there was a room full of probably 70 or 80 people rehearsing the state of the Union address with the president up at the podium and I was my job to kind of come up with a joke so that he might say and I remember kind of walking into the room every 10 12 minutes with a new piece of paper with another five or six jokes on it and I would go and find George Stephanopoulos and hand him this sheet of paper and he shake his head no and send me back and this went on five or six times before I came in with a joke if I circled it he nodded he gives me a thumbs up. And the line was. I know you're applause for not for me but for the person sitting behind me. But go wax you can hear Al Gore speak another day. And it went into the draft and everyone's very happy with it in fact the expectations were so high that the person in charge of Legislative Affairs got me a ticket to the House gallery and I watched the speech standing on my

feet except for the fact that when it came time for him to deliver the joke and I'm sorry I apologise for the anti-climax those anti-climax for me as well. He just skipped over it and it went away and I never found out why he didn't do that joke that day but I was standing there had a way to hundreds you know one hour and 21 minutes for the speech to be over and then I went back and I was the egg timer joke because I knew how long a speech went on. You had done this in a kind of an unofficial way this kind of work for Mike Dukakis when he had been running for president. The reason you got done into the Clinton administration is that when you're doing this for Dukakis you met George Stephanopoulos and when he went to work for Clinton and there's a great story here where you you they kind of brought you in to do that for the president and Clinton met you and and when they said well this guy used to be the unofficial joke writer and Dukakis campaign plane says do you. So you're the guy that put Dukakis in the tank. Do you know what he's. It can't be it was just that my first job out of college and I was a

a a volunteer basically wound up you know started clipping newspapers at 5 in the morning and through a series of battlefield promotions which is what campaigns are all about. Wound up writing press releases and then being the guy who wrote the jokes for Mike Dukakis he was in fact talking to the man who made my cock so funny and it was that kind of formative experience that really was kind of the form of the experience of my professional life. To be quite honest the Colquitt the White House has had the the aftermath of my deny Dukakis dream. And so I did share an office with George for about five months where we he and I and of a guy named Andy Savage were the designated Dukakis campaign rapid response team. And I know how funny that sounds now but at the time he took it quite seriously. And you know when George went on to run the Clinton campaign war room remember the movie The War Room. I went back and renamed our enterprise the Dukakis campaign. Unilateral

disarmament room. Because it just did not work on the same models as the war room unfortunately. But yet George. It was a catalyst and a conduit and a wonderful friend. And and it's kind of a common denominator between my two caucus experience and my current experience while going back to your assertion that you were the guy that made Mike Dukakis funny. Do you think that he was really that Dukakis was somebody who was really misunderstood that in fact the guy the guy that you saw on the campaign trail that indeed mostly it seemed pretty serious and not terribly funny as if he is a sense of humor had been surgically removed somewhere along the line. Was that was actually a different. The real guy was different from that. No I wish I could tell you that. But you know it's it's part of a larger point. I mean you know why is it you know I'm all for it but oh it's the questions worth asking why is it that we require and ask our presidents our our would be presidents to be funny. I mean it's such a specific thing about who we are as a people as a culture. So Mike

Dukakis is not a funny man I can tell you that. I mean but you know we he and his campaign you know I by the way I have a lot of respect for Mike Dukakis and I'm inordinately proud of the time I spent working on his campaign. And you know I think you've got a bad rap find water to be kind of you know reflectively throw away our failed presidential candidates and I think you know he's been kind of dismissed and reduced to a cultural cliche that revolves around the silly tank and that is why you know in the year since I have been after thousand times over. Are you the guy who put my caucus in the tank and I always say you know that you know because I was the guy who wrote the jokes and I was basically that was the only funny thing that came out of our campaign I would try to find a way to kind of glom on credit for this my my response is always you know when that idea got to my desk Mike Dukakis was in a base was in a jeep wearing a baseball hat. And I said no we can do better.

What you think about just what humor can do for a candidate and where that line is. And and I guess one of things I find myself thinking about is Bob Dole and thinking about after he had his successful bid for the presidency one night seeing him on with David Letterman and then that he was he seemed for the first time in a long long time he seemed relaxed. He seemed upbeat. He was funny and he was smart. And you looked at that Bob Dole and you said yourself now if he had been like this he might well have gotten elected. And I think a lot of. He bought the exact same experience watching Al Gore on Saturday Night Live after the 2000 election. Yes there is. You know those shows are a great showcase for these people and they're smart to go on there quick it's really not about being funny though it's really kind of about come across as a likable kind of watching watching a side of their personality that you don't see in debates that you don't see on Meet the Press and you know they do better to kind of find more

forums to kind of express themselves in that way because people are tired of the you know the debate one liners and and the 30 second ads and these you know kind of the soundbite culture you know the humor of bands whether it is the you know advance of the silly season or a trip to David Letterman's couch is a showcase of another aspect of their personality. You know people by nature are funny and politicians are like people a lot like people in many significant ways. And these can evade occasions let them showcase that we have an oracle archtop with let's go to bed. Line one right here. Hello. I'd like to carry on with your comment you just made that some politicians have a you know a natural sense of humor. Even though you may not have contributed Can you give us an example of Clinton's own natural natural humor that we made up my to remembered.

Well you may remember you know I remember it's one thing to take a funny script up to a podium to give a funny speech and that's fun enough. I mean he gave a very funny line. And one of the debate live on national television with the world watching Senator Dole had just finished castigating him for making a comment that he thought was he should be he should have just kept its mouth shut he believed the president went on about a topic of national security and was president by Senator Dole's opinion that he spoke too much in public and really that was a moment where he needs to show more discretion about our national security as opposed to kind of giving a mini press conference. On a sensitive topic and castigated him for kind of not holding his tongue and they turned back to President Clinton they say What's your response. He says no comment not alright but all right OK well you know that as funny as it gets and under as much pressure as you can possibly imagine. And so you know he's inordinately talented and really quick on his feet and perfectly capable of charming a

room all by himself. There was just because these humor dinners are such you know huge exercise in humor that you really would need to bring in the other you know smart funny people who help him do this stuff and do it when people object can premise. And I've had just a few people you know who the president doesn't write his own jokes. I can't believe that yet another problem with our or with our political system. My response is exactly how many hours of the day do you want your president writing jokes. You know I think it's a fair question. So you know but his humor is is natural and he's got a high degree of it. Thank you. Thank you others are welcome get questions 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 1:58. 2 9 4 5 I think it's it is probably true with anyone who is in a position like the president that their their psyche is going to be dissected

over and over again under bright light and certainly that happened with with Bill Clinton and I think the there they. Are the conclusion of a lot of people was that if if he had a major flaw it was desperate wanting to be liked and that you know perhaps led him to make some mistakes or let him in in the direction that it did and I guess I wonder just based on your extent to which you got to know the guy whether you thought that that was true or went to be like yeah I am. Maybe even more than that now that's 10 light of I Heard. I mean he hears as much charisma as any 10 people you know and can turn it on you know when everyone. And and you know to go and use it to great effect for political capital and kind of you know his own his own

interpersonal relationships. But he we were able to kind of tap into his natural talents to communicate to people and use humor to say the things that would go on say it in in the regular Washington discourse so that I think it's a roll of humor kind of speaking a subtext. Well we have about 15 minutes left in this part of focus 580 and maybe I'll introduce Again our guest We're talking with Mark Katz. He's a speech writer and humorist and his essays have been published in New York Times and New Yorker. He was for a time in the Clinton. Ministration the unofficial or maybe official humor writer for the president his main responsibility was to help craft speeches for these four annual Washington humor dinners that take place from January through April. Collectively known by people in Washington as the silly season and he talked about some of his experiences in the book Clinton and me a real life political comedy is published by Hyperion.

Do Is it really true that when you were a boy you and your brother ran home from school or ran in turn on the TV so that you could watch the Watergate hearings. It's sad but true. Yes. We you know I was I was a 10 year old Nixon hater. And and to this day when I try to figure out you me how does that. To me and how this career of mine unfolded I think back the years that I was 10 years old and I would spend my time watching the Watergate hearings every day after school and listening to George Carlin albums when those who are not and I think it was in that year that my that the synapses of my brain got cross-wired in a way that it never become fully untangled. There was kind of a formative experience for me you know warning. I mean I I just had a visceral dislike of of of Richard Nixon for reasons that don't even make perfect sense now. But you know Warren to kind of find humor in it I actually my first political jokes were Nixon jokes and my brother and I had a tape recorder we would tape Nixon

jokes into the tape recorder and answer to entertain ourselves and Leslie give me one. Why did it got to me. It's all right out of my head. Dick Nixon before Dick few I remember was one. Oh I'm sorry can't say it on the radio. OK forgive me for that one. I was 10 years old. OK OK I think it was the other it was the other one one was something like what did the Haldeman said Ehrlich know you had walked into the Oval Office when he walked into the Oval Office. Testing Testing 1 2 9 years old well that's that's not bad for a nine year old was in your family was was there a lot of conversation. About politics you know I'm the second son of a suburban orthodontist and for a given that the answer is yes my parents were kind of ardent advice Stevenson supporters and encourage and I was encouraged to kind of get involved I actually volunteered to be my third grade class in George McGovern standing in a debate we had and I to my

very first foray into politics was giving and giving the reasons why I thought my fellow third graders ought to vote for George McGovern only sought to support him and I remember I went up with a woman of color named Gretchen Gillis also 10 years old and she was a Nixon stand in. And somehow between the time I got. Up the boss and got to my class I dropped my notes some standing in front of the room trying to remember why the reasons why Michael A third graders ought to support George McGovern and the best thing I could come up with was that he shared a first name with George Washington. And and as you can imagine debate did not go as I hoped. McGovern did worse in Mrs. Carr's class than he was doing in the national polls which is saying something and the only years later did it occur to me that the Nixon girls had broken into my cubby and stolen my notes. That's dirty politics. Cell phone here lie number one.

Hello. Hi you called earlier I just wanted to get you to give some advice to John Kerry because during the Democratic primary debate Al Sharpton basically stole the show. Most interesting characters up there and a good part of that was because of his sense of humor and I find John Kerry to be so solemn that I either get depressed or just bored. And what do you think you can do and actually make himself. What kind of one liners might you suggest for him or how he might approach the debate. I'll hang up and listen to what I am actually working on. A secret plan to make John Kerry funny. I'm up early most days staying up late at night and there oh I can't tell you much about it yet because it is a secret but I can tell you it you know your every article you read about it has a word craggy in it. Have you ever seen anyone describe scraggy before. So I think there are some cranky jokes but I think the model I'm working off of is the Al Gore model quite honestly I

did about half a dozen speeches for Vice President Gore over the course of the 90s. And we found the secret weapon which was the third person. Al Gore jokes were Al Gore would tell his favorite jokes about himself. And I'll share a couple with you. One is Al Gore so stiff that Rack's buy their suits off of him. It's Al Gore. It is an inspiration to the millions of Americans who suffer from Dutch elm disease and Al Gore is so boring his Secret Service code name is Al Gore and who has a whole chapter in the book about that very joke and I'll let you ride it on your own. But I think that's the model I would recommend for John Kerry in the prototype I have in mind is John Kerry is so Lincoln asked his photo ID it's a $5 bill and I think that joke and more like it you know can kind of help him help him meet the threshold he needs to get to also I have a great mind for him for the debate that I've been to or hope to suggest to him at some point in this

in this showdown with President Bush at some points press already started. They're going to try to marginalize him this is hopelessly liberal to you know Dukakis Massachusetts Democrat and I have to see a line that vets like to recommend which is. It's true I once served as Mike Dukakis's the tenant governor and that credential alone gives me more firsthand experience with tank and with tanks and artillery than our current president. So I think there is opportunity you know coming up that he'll be able to kind of connect to people with humor. And I wouldn't bet against him they will meet the challenge. I wonder though whether you can it's one thing making fun of yourself it's a. The other thing making fun of your opponent it seems to me that's a that's can be a dangerous way to go. Well you got it right. And which is why is it you know I've actually enumerated the rules of political humor that help me and help explain you know what the what the assignment is to others. But you know the first rule of political humor is be

self-deprecating. You know it's as we spoke about before and the second rule is repeat as necessary because every additional joke you do takes yet another barb at the hands of an opponent. And the third rule is once you've been sufficiently self-deprecating you've acquired the right to be self-deprecating on behalf of others. And that's the kind of joke especially in the debate setting you know where you kind of want to pick your spots and make a joke at other people's You make a point through humor and making a point to humor makes it resonate all the more and get to look at the job that President Bush did in John Kerry's expense. Just a week ago where he said you know there are Democrats who support the war Democrats who oppose the war Democrats who support headstart the Democrats is opposed head start. And that's just one senator from Massachusetts. You know he had that was a joke going off fence well constructed and reinforced strategic point that the Bush White House wants to get out about John Kerry. This is a perfect example. One going

on top and with humor doing it deftly it wasn't you know necessarily mean joke but it's really a joke going on our offense and a joke at the expense of others and a joke that you know got repeated a million times over in the soundbites. Whoever whoever came up with that joke I promise you it's still high five ing himself you know I think one of our earlier callers won't want to have another go here at you know go back to the Rora line for. Well yeah I wanted to know the exact title of the book. I'd like to give it to that political student whose paper I read some of our early you know well we can do that Mark we can see we have a problem I didn't say the book the name of the book of Clinton and me a real life political comedy. The publisher is Miramax Books but is it connected to Hyperion but it's all the same kind of corporate parent and it's available to a bookstore near you God willing. And also on Amazon Dot com. And is it paperback. No it's a hardcover book. I also if you care to learn more about it there's a website for the book called the

w w dot Clinton and meet DOT com. Oh and great great. I would send you there you can order the books is there and I encourage you to order it in bulk. Thank you. All right thanks for the dough. Is that Miramax the motion picture merriment writes Miramax Books. That's that's that's Harvey. That's Harvey why Harvey Weinstein's Miramax. That's right how did you get mixed up with a guy like that. Well it was a magazine called The Talk Miramax or a Talk magazine and Miramax Books was Talk Miramax Books with its publishing arm Mera Talk magazine what folded about two years ago but Miramax Books has continued on and has an inordinate string of successes. It's actually been a great success. They did the Giuliani book they did Madeleine Albright's book and it's kind of gone from industry after thought to publishing powerhouse in just about two years. And I am thrilled and delighted to be working with them. Have you met Harvey is that. And how did you how did you find him. It's not

hard to miss. Thank you very much. I hope you appreciate that set up. But seriously. So you're experience with him was you know got a lot of charisma too you know he's someone who you know is you know people like him people hate him because he's he's well-known and he makes fun of himself too I mean we had a very nice conversation with him. He's very self-effacing I don't know well but in the kind of a cocktail party environment side Metamath I find it to be a wonderful man. I really don't like to meet him. So have you had much contact with the with Mr. Clinton since he's been out of the White House. No I think you know I kind of show up at political events and around I live in New York and he and you can usually find me around the shrimp table that he sings and he actually shows up there eventually too so I usually see him right around there and then I seen couple times here at fundraisers and political rallies and things like that and it's always wonderful to see him. You know I think. And that respect for the man I have high regard for his time in

office. And you know I think I tried to give in the book you know an honest assessment of who he is. I did not want to write a book that was kind of your reflexive staffers hagiography you know I wanted to I think humor compel the person to be more honest than they otherwise might be. And I wanted want to kind of give a portrait of Bill Clinton as I saw him for better and for worse. You know I saw him at moments where he wasn't at the height of who he is that egg timer story. You know you read that story and he was someone who's had who is not having his finest hour. But I will tell you this. See him in his finest hour to use redeemed at the end of that chapter because even after that scarring experience for him and for me. When he gave a speech you know that just died there you know on that night and he would have been very happy to forget that. Each ever happened as bad as I was would have been happy to forget it ever happened. He sent me a note that arrived in the mail later that week that said Dear Mark thanks for your help at the Alfalfa Dinner. You're a funny

man. The egg timer was great. Best Bill Clinton you know and that to me is the real Bill Clinton. You know someone who does who's who's not who is as human as any human has ever walked the earth. And yet you know can rise above it and to me that note was you know a shining moment and showed me you know exactly how gracious and wonderful he can be. I guess that you know that those say a lot that he went after all that he would say you know in the Middle East he was he was sort of saying well you know I guess your idea's pretty good and maybe I would have been better off if I would have done that with all the subtext. And I appreciate all that. And it made me like him all the more because quite honestly after that speech was done I thought I had written the last speech as if going to write for him it was such a big such a terrible experience. But you know he sent me that note and I felt better about it afterwards and I think he understood that. You know that was not him it is best and he kind of let me know that he knew that. And we went forward from there and you know he went on to use humor brilliantly

masterfully for the next six years of his time in office. So you think now in the future that of all the administrations will have somebody. Doing filling that role that you filled for that Clinton ministry I think all the ministrations are on notice now that this is a real opportunity to connect with Americans and voters and constituents in a way that a man might not have fully thought out before. I think humor is kind of an underutilized aspect of our political communications because I think you know what I love most about humor is a humor flutters where spin insults spin is basically saying I think you're just dumb enough to believe this. And then you say whatever it is you you you're kind of hopeful. You're you're you know you're spinning you're your strategy disguised as truth. But but humor is when you're saying I think you're smart enough to understand what I'm really saying here I think you're smart enough to understand that the subtext in the context and to connect the

dots and and the well let me say things that I probably couldn't say in a simple declarative sentence. And that's where humor does its best work and I think you know politicos and White House message making you know machineries really need and are on notice and are starting to do it really start to communicate more through that that coded language. Well thank you very much for giving us some of your time this morning. Bruce thank you so much. Our guest Mark Katz and he'd like to read the book once again the title of the book is Clinton and me a real life political comedy Miramax Books is the publisher and you should certainly be able to find it at a bookstore near you.